Thuyen Vo & The Changing Vietnamese Food Landscape

"There's a lot of controversy about Michelin Guide coming here. But for me, I look at it as an opportunity for Vietnam to attract more tourists."​​

In this episode of A Vietnam Podcast, host Niall Mackay welcomes back Thuyen Vo, a renowned food influencer and KOL (Key Opinion Leader), who previously appeared in Season 6. Thuyen discusses her journey over the past three years, sharing insights into her life, her passion for Vietnamese cuisine, and her current endeavors. The conversation touches on the impact of the Michelin Guide's entry into Vietnam, the importance of warm meals in Vietnamese culture, and Thuyen's personal favorite dining spots in Saigon. With her vibrant personality and deep knowledge of the local food scene, Thuyen provides listeners with a delightful and informative discussion about the evolving culinary landscape in Vietnam.

Key Takeaways:
1. Warm Meals Are Essential: Thuyen emphasizes the cultural significance of warm meals in Vietnamese cuisine, contrasting it with the Western preference for cold foods like cereal and sandwiches.
2. Impact of Michelin Guide: The introduction of the Michelin Guide in Vietnam is seen as an opportunity to attract more tourists and highlight the diverse culinary offerings of the country.
3. Favorite Dining Spots: Thuyen shares her top dining recommendations in Saigon, including Pizza 4P’s and The Deck, highlighting their consistent quality and unique dining experiences.
4. Influencer Insights: As a KOL, Thuyen discusses the shift in her career, her reduced public appearances, and her focus on studying and personal growth.
5. Leveraging LinkedIn: Thuyen encourages influencers to utilize LinkedIn for professional networking

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Transcript

Niall: 0:31

So exciting we just had the Michelin Guide

Thuyen: 0:34

come to Vietnam for the first time what difference did that make to the scene there's a lot of controversy, about Michelin Guide coming here. But for me, I look at it as an opportunity for Vietnam to attract more tourists. the Michelin guide is technically showing you what you should try. I don't know about other Vietnamese, but I need like warm meals. I cannot do it like cereal, sandwich. I would die!

Niall: 1:22

Welcome to another episode of a Vietnam podcast This is season 10 where I am interviewing past guests who have joined me throughout previous seasons My name is Niall Mackay and I first came to Vietnam in 2015 for a holiday I went back to New Zealand where I lived at the time and my wife and I just couldn't stop eating Vietnamese food Vietnamese coffee even Ba Ba uh which is one of the worst beers you can get fell in love with the place decided to come back came back for about six weeks and eight years later we're still here So there's something about Vietnam that keeps us here My guest today was on season six back in 2021 She's been a host on the Best Ever Food Review Show which is one of the biggest channels on YouTube She has her own English and Vietnamese language centers And she was on season six way back in 2021 when we were smack dab in the middle of a lockdown pandemic We met online on Zoom and we've never met before until today So my guest today is Toin Vo food has changed dramatically When we first came here it was like I want to get a banh mi because it costs less than a dollar You know I want to get com tam because it costs a dollar But now the fine dining scene and what I want to ask you about to talk about which is so exciting we just had the Michelin Guide

Thuyen: 2:46

come to Vietnam for the first time what difference did that make to the scene there's a lot of controversy um, you know, about Michelin Guide coming here. But for me, I look at it as an opportunity for Vietnam to attract more tourists. You know, like, people get really emotional when, uh, when you talk about food because, you know, it's like a memory, it's like an experience, and everybody was fighting towards the list, like, Oh, why is this one is not good? And it was not. Um, I feel like every list is. Like, it cannot be perfect, you know, and they have a very different, um, purpose when they make the list. So, um, Michelin guys, technically, from what I understand, is the guy that tourists come into a new country and they don't know what they're gonna get. So, for example, if you go to Vietnam for the first time, um, How do you know what pho is or what banh mi is? Yeah, maybe you have it in your home country, but you know, still here. And then when it goes down to like bún you said, right? Like it's, they, they don't know. So the Michelin guide is technically showing you what you should try. Um, uh, for example, like the local food, and then they move on to something different, like Thai dining or Thai food. Cannot, don't have to be fine dining, but can be like casual dining, right? And they have different, um, how do you say category? Because everybody was quite confused about Michelin guy, beef gourmet, you know, or one star, two star, three star. And they, they all put into, Oh, this, this is a Michelin, place.

Niall: 4:32

I'd heard of that either Michelin Guide which is I don't even know what the Beef Gourmand or

Thuyen: 4:39

Yeah. The biv Gourmet. Yeah. So

Niall: 4:42

like the actual Michelin Star Right. which is totally different one thing I read about as well was There's no such thing as a Michelin star chef

Thuyen: 4:53

No. Oh my God. happy

Niall: 4:55

well yeah like it's a Michelin star restaurant chef doesn't take the star

Thuyen: 4:59

No, but Yeah, but he can work there, right? He

Niall: 5:03

worked at a Michelin star restaurant but not a Michelin

Thuyen: 5:06

no, there, there's no such thing. Yeah, but, but I think, but I understand, right? Because when you do marketing, you kind of have to.

Niall: 5:15

truth

Thuyen: 5:15

like it's it's hard for you to write. He used to work at like, yeah So they put it as short like yeah, the two Michelin I get that but I understand why some people when they Die deep into the FNB scene and they get a little you know, worked up and I get that too. Um, yeah, but I think, I think, yeah, I was really happy when, when they came here, you know, because like you said, Saigon developed so much and we never have a Michelin ever, ever. Now they coming to Da Nang and yeah, yeah. So, So I was happy to see that, you know, and for me, the list is not permanent. Like, yeah, people will, you know, they will put in some new places, they will give star to the new one and yeah, they may take back the star. Like I, I saw that in Malaysia before. Yeah. Like you may have this this year, but the next year gonna. Take it away from you. So yeah, so for me, I would just, you know, I want to see how it goes. And from the marketing perspective, that's great for Vietnamese tourism. and there's, but there's a lot of misunderstanding about it as well. Like some people, they think about that. It's like, oh, it's always ph dining. You know, like it's always expensive, which is not the

Niall: 6:31

That's what I thought then I found out it's part of being in the guide So not getting the star is mostly fine dining right

Thuyen: 6:38

Being

Niall: 6:39

on the guide one of the criteria is like value for money And one of my favorite places that I've come to since the beginning is near Bintan Market It's called Bep Mee Inn that was on that was added to the guide for money and taste And so it's quite funny because The food I don't think is that great you can go and get street food for better But really good for what it is And it's in a touristy area But the only annoying thing is I've been back there a couple of times since'cause if someone comes to town I'll I'll normally take them there'cause it's central and it is it is good food but it's not cheap That's the difference So like Come Town would maybe be 40,000

Thuyen: 7:16

000

Niall: 7:16

food but it bit me and it's like a hundred thousand but it's cleaner and whatever blah blah blah But anyway the last twice I've been it is packed like lines out the door Yeah Since it got added to the Michelin

Thuyen: 7:28

lines out of the door, since it got added to the Michelin Guide. I don't

Niall: 7:40

I know where to get calm down while you go in there

Thuyen: 7:41

to get content while you're going there.

Niall: 7:47

it's I

Thuyen: 7:48

I think it's great for tourists and for people who first come here. Um, you know, and then, yeah, like for example, I have one star at like an Just a casual dining place, but yeah, when you go to Bangkok, for example, I had a dinner at Element, One Star in Bangkok, and it's fine dining. So, it doesn't have to be, I think One Star doesn't have to be, but from two and three, it's getting pricier, and yeah, the experience also elevated. Um, But yeah, I think, I think for me, I also followed it when I travel, you know, in, um, for example, I went to Singapore and Malaysia for my birthday. And yeah, so I also followed it. What my tip is, if you want to try local food, maybe you shouldn't follow it. Yeah, but if you want something fusion, I definitely think you should try on the Michelin Guide. Because a lot of my friends, they come to me and they will like, Where is a good local food in Bangkok that has Michelin? I'm like, I don't know. I don't think you should. You know, cause like, you can, yeah, you can Google and you know, have a high rating

Niall: 9:02

rating,

Thuyen: 9:03

but like when it comes to local food, I don't think you should come to a, to a Michelin star place.

Niall: 9:11

you mentioned a little bit ago about um bringing more tourists Vietnam What I think something like the Michelin Guide coming and the increase in the quality of the restaurants is it brings and this might sound bad but a better class of tourists I know from reading things that Vietnam is is well known for bringing tourists It's got like the lowest spend I don't know if you know this like tourists come to Vietnam and they don't spend much money which you can see because obviously things are very cheap here but as well but they come and they don't spend much money And I know that's something that Vietnam government or the tourism are looking at How can we increase how much people spend Because it's not just Vietnam people go to Thailand or Somewhere else in Southeast Asia and they will spend more money whereas they come to VA Vietnam and they're barely spending anything So with more restaurants of a higher quality it's I think it's gonna help attract people come to Vietnam and that's gonna take a long time because People come to Vietnam for the street food Like you said you go on YouTube that's all you're going to find That's all people think about And it makes sense because the food is absolutely delicious But having more availability of nicer restaurants And I went from my 40 I'm 41 now when I went from my wife took me from my 40th I'm terrible with names I can't remember the name but it was off Windway Walking Street and it was just incredible like a seven course meal I didn't even know it existed and it's like this is amazing

Thuyen: 10:31

Monkey Gallery. I

Niall: 10:32

think it was Monkey Gallery Yeah Really nice place yeah Yeah.

Thuyen: 10:38

I think so. Um, I think it's a misconception as well, you know, because like when I work in this industry, there's a lot of nice restaurants, like high end too. And like, I always tell my friends, because I don't know, because I'm, I was born and raised here. Um, so I don't know how be like from outside looking in, but from what I see, there are so many nice places and not cheap. Like it can be really expensive, like anywhere that I've been, you know, even Europe too. Like the, um, for example, if you go to like, um, I don't know, three star, uh, Michelin, right. It's usually like 400, 300 euros or something. And here you can find that too. Like, it's not cheaper. And I'm, and I'm saying that with confidence, like, like. I feel like it's a misconception of Vietnam having like, uh, like you said, Saigon and Vietnam is like, yeah, very different, right? i, I'm always really excited when they come and I show them this side of Saigon and I'd be like, Whoa, cause they don't know Yeah. And then like you said, the street food is great, but yeah, why not open to, you know, new market, right? And then the thing is, I also find it really crazy when people complain that why this is Vietnamese food, but why is it so expensive? It can be too. And yeah, like if you, If you watch, I don't know, but I watched the process of making some certain dishes in Vietnam, it's complicated. Yeah, and, and, I don't know why. We should all rise the standard together, you know, in a way. And I always tell my friend, yeah, you have to check that out because the scene is totally different. And I can see in the future, you know, Saigon would be one of those. Yeah, culinary experiences. Yeah, up there with the guy. I hope so, because, you know, you see Bangkok, right? Oh, they've been there for a while. They're great with tourism. I feel like Saigon is the first one to start and then Hanoi and then now Da Nang. And Da Nang is still new, right?

Niall: 14:35

It's moving in the right direction And interesting to seeing about the availability the price So my sister's never come to Vietnam She was due to come and then she's so selfish She got pregnant No I'm kidding So she had a she has a baby now which is amazing I'm so happy about that And so she couldn't come And I think Lindsay if you watch this I don't think she does watch this I'll listen to it But if she does you

Thuyen: 14:58

hope

Niall: 14:59

I don't think she came for a while because Because of that perception that Vietnam is dirty chaotic dirty gonna get sick Some of those things are true Some of them are somewhere in the middle But once I started to show like pictures of Oh by the way we're in this really nice cocktail bar you know we're in Layla or wherever like, And they're like well one of my favorite things is you can do both You can go to the street and drink on the street like some plastic chairs and then walk around the corner and go to Layla You know it's like that's one of the things I love about it But once she started to see that there was like nice things here she did book a flight to come and she had to change it because she got pregnant So that's not her But so I went to visit how she lives in Australia And you can't get a coffee like a cappuccino for less than five dollars Australian And I thought that seemed really expensive and then I did the math and I was like well that's about 85 000 dong That's about the same as a cappuccino here

Thuyen: 15:57

Not even D1

Niall: 15:58

just almost like so people say oh coffee's so cheap in Vietnam And it can be and I love my cafe sua da and I'll go in the morning fin coffee cafe sua da Cost 20 000 dong which is like a 1 10 Australian right So obviously that is available but if I want to go and get a cappuccino it's gonna cost 50 all the way up to 80 90 thousand dong which then you're like that's the same price as Australia So the misc there is a bit of a misconception Vietnam can be cheap but it can also be on par with the rest of the world And the quality like some of the co I mean I like my coffee so I don't want to go on too much but sometimes you get a cappuccino here and you're like

Thuyen: 16:35

like

Niall: 16:36

incredible And as I said I was just in Australia I got a couple of cappuccinos there they were absolutely garbage like this is awful You know when you've paid five dollars for it I'm a bit of a coffee snob I am a coffee snob I'll Yeah you can come here and experience all types of things So we don't need to mention them again I I know we'd recommend it It was unbelievable Three because I actually want to know myself because my wife asks me all the time where should we go to eat let's go somewhere nice And do you know what I do I message Joval

Thuyen: 17:12

I

Niall: 17:13

I will send a text She normally just says check my website because she updates her websites The last time I asked her she's like yeah check my website And I was like yeah that probably of all of Saigon messaging her every day Like where should I

Thuyen: 17:26

I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Oh my

Niall: 17:28

Pretty sure she's sick of it

Thuyen: 17:29

like she gets so busy answering because I ask her

Niall: 17:32

you ask her too right See we all do it So everyone go message JoVal Chan right now She's the premier food blogger in

Thuyen: 17:39

Shout out to you,

Niall: 17:40

Yeah

Thuyen: 17:41

But yeah, yeah. Oh, that's

Niall: 17:44

But what's your top three then

Thuyen: 17:45

Oh my God, it's so hard. but I will, I will go to the one that I go often. And I think the, the one that I go really often, it has to be Pizza at Fort P. And I'm sorry that it's not Vietnamese food Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But, um, I think, oh, it's so great, know, and then it just like, if I don't know where to go, I go there. Yeah, like I, like, I know that I'm gonna get something good

Niall: 18:14

Can I guess favourite dish Because we go semi often as well with our friends and Kim and Kim's Vietnamese as well and she gets the same thing every time and I'm going to guess you get the same thing The crab pasta

Thuyen: 18:28

Oh, it used to be. Yeah, but now I'm more like a pastel person. Yeah, but, but I know what you mean, right? And then, yeah, I, I think that's one I would totally recommend just, you know, so you don't have to think about where to go. Um, the second place that I go often because I live in D2, we live in D2, is, I don't else to I love you.

Niall: 18:49

they'll come and find us and

Thuyen: 18:50

Oh yeah, for you

Niall: 18:52

for you. because they think that your son is wife

Thuyen: 18:56

No, my God. Um, yeah, I would totally go to the deck. Oh, I love place. Yeah, I, I, oh my God, you have to get a table, you know, right where the water is. And it's just amazing. Like, yeah.

Niall: 19:12

happy hour Because I'm a happy hour kind of guy

Thuyen: 19:14

Oh my God. I'm sorry. I don't drink.

Niall: 19:16

at all. Oh I plan my drinking by happy hours

Thuyen: 19:20

Smart.

Niall: 19:22

the deck I've not been to the deck in

Thuyen: 19:23

Yeah, like I go there really often just because you can go there to see the sunset. Um, yeah. And then, you know, just do whatever. But yeah, you have to get close to the water,

Niall: 19:34

please.

Thuyen: 19:36

I like sushi. And I like omakase. Do you like

Niall: 19:40

omakase? Remind me what's omakase again

Thuyen: 19:43

It's technically just, just, no, just like courses. Like, you don't,

Niall: 19:47

like a izakaya Um no it's

Thuyen: 19:49

no, it's because it's more like drinking food. But omakase is technically like, you don't order, like, you, you have a set menu already.

Niall: 19:57

No I've not been I don't eat much sea I eat

Thuyen: 19:59

Oh, that's why.

Niall: 20:01

And I drink so I go to izakayas and get

Thuyen: 20:03

it's a there. Yeah. for Omakase, I usually just go to Kyoto. it's really close to City Garden. And, uh, the reason why I like it, because it's quite casual. It's good for the price range. Yeah, and I think a lot of people in Saigon, they know about that one.

Niall: 20:21

So just to review your top three places in Saigon Vietnam was a Japanese pasta and pizza place or p was a Western cocktail bar And a Japanese That's your top three places in Saigon

Thuyen: 20:35

yeah, and, and, and I have a reason for that. Um, Vietnamese food, yeah, like you said, right, I love street food as well, but yeah, my stomach is not the strongest. And the second thing is, I usually get them delivered, because it's so hot out

Niall: 20:53

It's really hot right

Thuyen: 20:54

mean? Yeah. So, yeah, if it's about Vietnamese food, I Vietnamese foods Bún Riêu.

Niall: 21:00

Um reo I don't like it fishy

Thuyen: 21:02

but I like that in Ch Bánh Thành. Yeah, I think that that is my favorite one. I only eat Bún Riêu in that one. Never go anywhere else. oh, I'm basic. I like pho.

Niall: 21:14

See I don't like yeah don't

Thuyen: 21:16

God. And, and, a lot of people are going to shout at me for this, but I like pasta, pho hoa pasta. I love it.

Niall: 21:25

love

Thuyen: 21:26

I sent everyone there. And yeah, a lot of people want to yell at me for that too. And, um, I think the last one I have to say, uh, from my hometown. Yeah. So it's, uh, Ban Sao, but it's not the one here. Um, small. Yeah. Like, um, from the center version. like, not, not that too crispy, small, but a little soft and Oh my God. It just, it's just great. I'm so intrigued, you know, by food, just because it's very personal, yeah, and I think you agree with me, right, that it's a very personal experience, and you will find your people share the same love for that place, yeah, and it's a lot of memory, you know, and an art itself, yeah, like some people do it for three different generations, yeah, so that's why I love food.

Niall: 22:19

it for three different generations So that's why I love food Vietnamese guy called Daniel in the first season and as well that was one of the questions was what's your favorite Vietnamese food and he was just like calm down like could literally it all day every day and at that time I don't think I really had it So I didn't really get it and now I get it

Thuyen: 22:52

yeah, I, I had the chance to introduce it to the U. S. Ambassador. Yeah, yeah. And it was so amazing because he totally ate it, you know, because when you film shows, sometimes people don't really eat. And it was like, May 9:00 AM in the morning and he went in with a pistol and everything and with Ture. Yeah, he did great. And yeah, that's why I think fruit really brought people together. You know? He, oh, he went at it

Niall: 23:23

it up This is I've been having this discussion lately with a couple of people One of the things that fascinates me about Vietnamese food right is in the West we have breakfast lunch and dinner food So breakfast is like cereal or yoghurt pancakes if you're American Lunch would be like a sandwich or a salad maybe Dinner would be pasta or a pizza or meat and veg something that We are very different meals for each meal like you'd be looked at insane if you had pancakes for dinner But in Vietnam it doesn't matter what meal it is you can eat the same dish like there's a Mee Kwang place across from me packed to breakfast packed at lunch packed to dinner I've eaten it for all three meals com tam I've had it 10 in the morning I've had it for lunch and I've had it for dinner.

Thuyen: 24:08

It's

Niall: 24:08

just it's one of the things I love about Vietnamese food it's not it's not set to one meal you can eat it whenever you want

Thuyen: 24:15

Yeah, and I think we, the challenge is, I don't know about other Vietnamese, but I need like warm meals I don't, I don't understand the cereal concept.

Niall: 24:25

an interesting never thought about that the

Thuyen: 24:27

I, I

Niall: 24:28

here

Thuyen: 24:29

Exactly. People would it and sweat and it's great. Like nobody complains.

Niall: 24:35

see somebody with like a steaming bowl of hot soup and I'm like

Thuyen: 24:39

Yeah, we that, and, and we need that three meals a day. And yeah, some people will disagree, but I

Niall: 24:46

don't have cold food though I never thought about that there's No,

Thuyen: 24:49

no, like, for example, like, banh mi, you know, like, yeah, some people have it for breakfast because it's fast, but yeah, like, I, I'm a soup person. So yeah, I like anything Yeah, it's right. I don't know, but yeah, like, like I need warm meals all the time and oh my God, it sounds like a lot of work, but yeah. I, I cannot do it like cereal sandwich. I would die. Yeah. Well

Niall: 25:18

I'm hungry now I know this often happens when the V M podcast we get talking about either food or beer and I'm ready for a beer I'm ready for food I'm hungry now Thank you so much for coming on again I can't believe it's been three years since we first talked Three years I still never met you because you said you never leave your apartment I don't I don't go out the house much these days either Um it's really amazing to meet you in person I appreciate you coming on The Last Time Pandemic Times doing it on Zoom Obviously I've actually watched you quite a lot on the Best of a Food Review Show I knew you weren't Sonny's wife It wasn't me Googling that That was really funny I couldn't believe that when I saw that in my set It's like this is why people searching your website and tell people now where can they find you because you are a Food Influencer Food and Beverage K O L which I had to Google that phrase recently as well

Thuyen: 26:05

K-O-L-K-O-L. Oh,

Niall: 26:07

Opinion Leader Which is basically a fancy term for an influencer right I think

Thuyen: 26:11

right? Marketing

Niall: 26:13

people were like we can't call them influencers we need a fancy acronym so it's K O L

Thuyen: 26:18

Um

Niall: 26:21

where can people Oh

Thuyen: 26:26

Um, but yeah, thank you so much for having me again. Uh, like I told you before, you know, when you were setting things up that I don't really do a lot of interviews anymore. I don't go to events anymore because I've been dedicated my time to study. Yeah. I'm studying German as well, by the way. So

Niall: 26:44

last time three years ago

Thuyen: 26:45

yeah, yeah And then now should be fluent

Niall: 26:47

by now

Thuyen: 26:48

Oh, I hope so. I'm having a test coming. I'm so happy to see you in person. I think I do much better when I see you in person. I don't do well with pandemic. I'm very active on my Instagram at Thuyen Vo, 1, 2. Yeah, so please put it

Niall: 27:04

There was 11 other there and you were the 12th one yes, How

Thuyen: 27:09

do you know that? I, I messaged her. I was like, can you give it to me? She's like,

Niall: 27:13

No way which number Number

Thuyen: 27:15

no

Niall: 27:16

Toyinvaa

Thuyen: 27:16

Somebody

Niall: 27:17

Oh

Thuyen: 27:18

Yeah, with no number. And I was shooting for that, and she was like, uh, no. How about no. So yeah, I went with one two, which is my birthday date. Yeah, and then I'm also on Facebook. Yeah, which is Thuyen Vo, no one too. And I have TikTok as well as Thuyen Vo as well, which is getting boring. And you can find me on LinkedIn. Actually, um, Jovo is the one that got me there, because I was not very, uh, you know, active. Yeah. And then I saw her post about, you know, how she got in touch with a lot of like minded people on LinkedIn and I started posting more and yes, it's great. just started using LinkedIn for my business

Niall: 27:59

like two months ago and a whole different

Thuyen: 28:01

exactly.

Niall: 28:03

like why am I wasting time on Facebook I want to grow my business get on LinkedIn

Thuyen: 28:07

exactly. So yeah. If, if any other influencers, I hope you check that out It's great. Yeah. And that's where you find me. Hopefully YouTube one day, not yet.

Niall: 28:17

Well thank you very much for listening to this episode of a Vietnam podcast It's really exciting to be back for season 10 If anyone's a regular listener I stopped for almost two years making any episodes I lost a lot of the passion a lot of the energy and enthusiasm for it for it I really wasn't I stopped making because I wasn't enjoying it really

Thuyen: 28:35

Um feel

Niall: 28:37

I've got the energy back and I'm really excited to talk to people and share episodes again So thank you so much for listening Thank you for coming on The best thing you can do if you enjoy this episode please send it to someone else Please share it Let other people know about this podcast Whether you're visiting Vietnam you live here or you want to come send me a message get in touch Obviously do all that things that people always say share subscribe like all of that stuff I hate saying it but I feel like you have to do

Thuyen: 29:02

yeah You have

Niall: 29:03

to right I hate you have to say it Yeah

Thuyen: 29:05

It's little

Niall: 29:06

little reminder Have you ever done it I don't think I've ever turned on the notifications and subscribed because somebody told me to I've only ever done it because I wanted to I'm telling you go do it Thank you very much Cheers

Thuyen: 29:18

Bye. Are