The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families. Through the perspective of a community of former graduates and Naval Academy insiders, this podcast will help you learn about life at the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis. Through our shared experiences, Academy Insider guides families through the anxiety and frustration caused by lack of understanding, misinformation, and confusion. This platform is designed to better relationships between midshipmen and their loved ones. This podcast is not affiliated with the United States Naval Academy, the United States Navy or Department of Defense. The thoughts and opinions are exclusively those of your host and his guests.
The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
#057 Finding Identity and Purpose Through the Storm at the Naval Academy
From navigating the rigorous demands of Plebe Summer to leading with compassion and resilience, Cam Kinley’s journey from Memphis to the Pacific Northwest is nothing short of inspiring. This episode features Cam, a former Navy football player and current Navy intelligence officer, as he shares his unique experiences at the Naval Academy. Discover how playing for the Navy football team instilled a deep sense of brotherhood and collective pride, and learn about the pivotal moments that defined his path, from his unconventional recruiting process to the profound sense of camaraderie and resilience that shaped his identity.
Prepare to be moved by the essence of true leadership as Cam recounts the challenges and triumphs of Plebe Summer. Hear about the mantra "get comfortable being uncomfortable" and how it has guided Cam through moments of adversity, such as helping a fellow squad member in need. This episode highlights the Naval Academy’s role in fostering a lifelong commitment to service, shaping leaders who prioritize the well-being of others and the mission over personal achievements. Cam’s story of nearly failing a critical class due to a concussion, and his subsequent journey of redemption, underscores the importance of perseverance and resilience.
Balancing academics, varsity sports, and military commitments is no small feat, and Cam shares his strategies for managing these responsibilities, emphasizing faith and organization. We also delve into the crucial topic of separating one’s identity from their occupation, particularly within the military context, and the impact this has on emotional well-being and leadership effectiveness. Tune in to hear Cam’s heartfelt appreciation for his mentors, like Captain Mendenhall, and the invaluable lessons learned from navigating identity and adversity in life. This episode is a compelling exploration of finding strength and purpose through the challenges of military service and beyond.
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.
Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast and the USNA Property Network Podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.
He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a boutique residential real estate company that specializes in serving the United States Naval Academy community PCSing to California & Texas.
We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.
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Welcome to Season 2 of the Academy Insider Podcast. Academy Insider is a 501c3 nonprofit organization that serves midshipmen, future midshipmen and their families. At its core, this podcast is designed to bring together a community of Naval Academy graduates and those affiliated with the United States Naval Academy in order to tell stories and provide a little bit of insight into what life at the Naval Academy is really like. I hope you enjoy it. Thank you so much for listening and reach out if you ever have any questions. The Academy Insider Podcast is sponsored by the Vermeer Group, a residential real estate company that serves the United States Naval Academy community and other select clientele in both California and Texas. If I can ever answer a real estate related question for you or connect you with a trusted Academy affiliated agent in the market which you're in, please reach out to me directly at grantatthevermeergroupcom. You can also reach out to me on my LinkedIn page, grant Vermeer, and I'd be happy to respond to you there. Thank you so much, and now let's get back to the episode. Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Academy Insider Podcast.
Speaker 1:In today's episode, I'm joined by Cam Kinley.
Speaker 1:Cam is an incredible guy.
Speaker 1:He was a Navy football player all four years, big time player at the Academy and is now a Navy intelligence officer, and in this episode we talk about two things that are very common in the Naval Academy experience overall, which is overcoming adversity kind of finding your purpose through all of the storms and all the adversities that you face in Annapolis and beyond and then, on top of that, we also talk about finding your identity. It's something that was really difficult for me. Going through the Naval Academy was trying to find my identity and who I was not associating who I am with what I do, and so this is a really interesting conversation. I think it'll be something that, again, people experience through the Naval Academy journey with a large frequency. So if you're interested in kind of hearing our experiences through it, what helped us out in our process and what we see as the true benefits of the Naval Academy experience and getting repetitions of overcoming adversity, then check out this episode.
Speaker 1:I hope you love it. If you have any questions, let me know. Otherwise, enjoy. All right, everyone, welcome back to the Academy.
Speaker 2:Insider Podcast Cam, thanks so much for coming on and being a part of this. Man, if you don't mind just telling us a little bit about yourself, where you're from, how you ended up at the Naval Academy and where you're at now the academy. But Cameron Kinley, from Memphis, tennessee. Uh graduated from Lausanne Collegiate School, there and went on to the academy uh, recruited athlete, recruited varsity football player. So it's kind of how I found out about the academy and commissioned as an intel officer from there with, uh, my degree in political science. Uh. So now I'm in with B? Uh, with B Allen Washington. Uh, doing my naval service out here. So been enjoying it, man, it's been a good ride.
Speaker 1:How about that, that that's quite the shift from Memphis all the way up to uh to the pacific northwest would have never imagined. Hey, that's what life's all about, man absolutely very cool and you mind just talking, giving a quick rundown about what playing for navy football meant for you, talking a little bit about your journey all four years, uh, and and how that that experience was being a part of the brotherhood now it's something special like it's hard to describe it, um, it's really just something you feel.
Speaker 2:and I had an older brother that played football at illinois. My little brother plays football at louisville, so they kind of had a much different experience than me being power five and stuff like that. But I think that's what makes the navy football program special. Uh, we don't really have all of the same resources that other programs have. We go through a lot more than other programs don't have to go through, but we take pride in that and that's what makes us so close. And I think the fact that we truly play for one another, the fact that it's no individuals on the team for real and if you are an individual You're not going to last long. You'll probably hit the transfer portal or you'll probably quit. That's the reality of it. So I think that team aspect, that brotherhood like these are my brothers for life it makes it special. And obviously you know you're representing something bigger than you with that Navy across your chest and you get support from everybody.
Speaker 2:You know there's no nobody's like oh, I hate the Navy football team One day, you know. Yes, I mean, it's special, it's definitely special I love that.
Speaker 1:And and during your recruiting process you talk about having older you know older siblings, people who have played at an extremely high level. What about the recruiting process and what about the united states naval academy made you say, hey, yes, this is where I want to go play football, especially not really having much knowledge about it growing up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's crazy man. So I took well, I had four official visits scheduled. I had Air Force, princeton, yale and Navy. Navy was my last one. It was like a week before signing day, so I went out to Air Force. Air Force was cool, I liked it. Colorado was just a little too far from my house for my parents to be able to make the games you know playing in the Mountain West. I was like parents not really going to be able to see me much. So I was like Air Force is off the list.
Speaker 2:Visited Princeton and honestly I thought I was going to commit because I visited Princeton earlier that previous year, before my final season, and I liked it. So I was like this is if I get the feeling I'm committing on the spot. But when I went to Princeton, man, something was just weird. It just didn't feel like I fit. I felt like I was going just because of the name Obviously great institution, beautiful campus, great program but I just didn't think that's where I was supposed to be. And at that point I was like you know, I'm not going to Ivy period and so I canceled my Yale visit, which is crazy, like just thinking back on it, like, oh, I canceled a visit to Yale, but canceled my Yale visit and went into the Naval Academy visit like man. I hope this is it, or I'm not going to know what I'm going to do and I tell you it's a bridge that you cross over right.
Speaker 2:When you come into Annapolis. You can see the campus kind of in the sunlight as you look over to your left, and as soon as I saw the campus I said this is where I'm supposed to be. I didn't really know why, man, it was that feeling, but as I look back, I knew it was the next piece of the journey that God had for me to develop as a man, develop as a leader, as a student, you know, as an athlete, and then, on top of that, being able to have the military service. It was just a full package that I couldn't feel like I could, that I didn't feel like I could turn down. I'm not going to lie and say it's exactly what I wanted to do as an 18 year old coming out of high school, but I knew it's what I needed to do and I mean it hasn't done me wrong so far, so I think I made the right choice for sure no, absolutely, and kind of like you mentioned when you showed up and you see annapolis for the first time.
Speaker 1:That's the greatest advantage the naval academy coaches have in recruiting dude I remember, I remember showing up and being like whoa, like this place is nice yeah like this place is nice especially being from memphis.
Speaker 2:Man, you see all this water, you see these boats on the water and you're watching the football team practice right next to the water yeah this is gorgeous. Now, granted, you lose kind of some of the beautifulness of the uh campus when you're stuck on the yard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But now, even as a grad, I look back and I'm like, man, this campus is gorgeous, man, yeah and that's how they get you, because they bring you out on your recruiting trips, usually in like what?
Speaker 1:september, october, and you're like the fall weather, it's nice, the humidity started to fade a little bit. Yeah, people out on the out on the boats, water is glistening. Uh, man, I can't beat it, uh. But you know, obviously you make the decision, come, come to the Academy. You play four years. You have a really successful career. What moments were most special to you and kind of if you have any recollections of like any specific game moment or just overall experience that meant the most to you as your time as a Navy football player and how that related to your experience and your building as an identity as a Navy football player?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna be real man, my first year. Obviously as a plebe it's really hard to make the team to travel your first year. You know you're coming out of basic training, you're competing against guys that's been training working out all summer and it's. I mean it's a lot of numbers that you're going up against. But I was able to make the traveling roster my first year and it was like four freshmen that made it and we were going against Memphis in my hometown that year. And you know I'm excited Family there, friends there, former coaches, teammates Like this is everything I dreamed of playing against Memphis in my hometown. But I get out there, man, I get my rep on special teams and I blow it bad, it was bad, I got cooked. I was like this is not good man.
Speaker 2:And when I got back to the school that Monday my position coach called me into the office. He's like hey, man, we're going to move you down to scout team for the rest of the year and obviously nobody imagines that to be their road to glory when they go from high school to college. And so that was a humbling moment for me. But I tell you what if that would have never happened to me my freshman year, I would have never developed a work ethic that I have, and I would have never seen like adversity as a good thing for me, right. So I took everything all the criticism that my coach gave me and I took that and I took action on it and that allowed me to develop as an athlete, develop as a player, and I think that's kind of what truly set me on a trajectory to have a pretty good career at Navy.
Speaker 2:So that was a significant moment for me. Obviously, it's not like a glorious success moment, but it's what I can credit all of my work, ethic and mindset to that moment. Right there, getting moved to scout team but obviously I mean beating Army in 2019 and going 11 and 2 and playing in the liberty bowl again uh, that year and winning the liberty bowl I that's probably gonna be my greatest football year ever. It's up there for sure. Um, and then just being with the guys in the locker room man, those are the times that I always think about and always laugh about, and you know, going through the fourth quarters and the conditioning together, but but yeah, I say that moment. Freshman year, beating Army, winning the Liberty Bowl, my junior year those are probably the top two moments that I have.
Speaker 1:No, I love that and thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1:But I'm also really glad that you brought up that story about going back to Memphis your plebe year, getting this opportunity and taking a defeat right.
Speaker 1:Taking a defeat, that kind of you know established. It was really a foundational moment for you because this episode is really going to be all about this idea of again what I think make the service academies so special whether it's a part of your athletic career, whether it's part of your military career, whether it's part of your academic career but it's this idea of truly overcoming adversity right, and service academies will put you in a ton of situations in which you will have to overcome adversity right. I talk a lot about the fact that I believe the power of the midshipman experience really is about becoming someone who handles the hard aspects of life better, because you're going to constantly be challenged, you're going to constantly get pushed, and I know you document a lot of these things in your book that you actually wrote and, if you don't mind, I'd love for you to get the opportunity to talk about your book, kind of what inspired you to write it and how it relates to your experience at the Naval Academy and part of Navy football and just your football career at large.
Speaker 2:No, a hundred percent. Man, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think what the Academy does, whether you know it or not, you're building a muscle of resilience as you go through these hard times and you don't realize it till you graduate and you're around some of your counterparts and they don't handle stress and pressure as well and a lot of things. That's phasing them doesn't really phase you, and you're like man, why am I so calm? But it's because at the Academy you're on so many strenuous conditions and you learn how to thrive through it. And so, when it comes to identity the book I wrote, finding Purpose Through the Storm I think that's what life is all about. Nobody is exempt from adversity. I don't care how much money you make, I don't care how famous you are, I don't care what family you come from, you're going to experience some kind of adversity in your life. The thing is, nobody controls what happens to them, but you can always control how you respond to it. Right, and I remember Plebe summer man, there's a couple moments that stick out to me. One, of course, is the 6am, 5am, whatever time it was workouts every morning. They suck. I hate running. I hate running. It just sucks. I hate that type of stuff. And so every morning I'm waking up like golly, here we go again. I'm about to run to hospital, point running like five. I'm like man, this is terrible. And the guy that ran our PT, major Antonelli, he would always say, like near the end of the workout we were doing a little run around the cone type stuff or whatever, when everybody's happy because they know it's over he would always say you know, get comfortable being uncomfortable 21. And get comfortable being uncomfortable 21. And that stuck with me, man, get comfortable being uncomfortable. First time I heard it I was like what is he talking about? How can I get comfortable being uncomfortable? Like that's an oxymoron, you know. But basically what he was saying was things aren't going to get better. So you better learn how to appreciate what you're going through now, because the sooner you can get used to it, the sooner you can get used to the challenges and the difficulties, the better it's going to be in the long run. And so I kind of took that mantra and took it with me for the rest of the academy. And then I said another moment in bleep summer, man, that stuck out to me I was killing the PT and stuff. You know I was a recruited athlete. I hope I would. But I remember one day man, this girl next to me was struggling in my squad to stay up in the plane. I had just moved my arm underneath hers to hold her up and when my squad leader saw that he kind of told us all right, everybody can get up now. And it was at that moment where I realized, ok, I figured it out.
Speaker 2:Coming to the academy is dedicating yourself to a life that's bigger than you. Doesn't matter if you can stand out and plead some, or doesn't matter if you can stand out during the academic year or on your athletic team None of that matters. At the service academy it's about connecting yourself with something that's much greater than you, which is the purpose of service. And I think what the academy does. The sooner you can learn to attach yourself to something that's greater than you, the sooner you can push yourself through adversity, difficulties and opposition, because you realize it's not about you. It's about developing you to be able to provide something to somebody else, and that's kind of what identity focuses on. Man Like I go through my life from when I was five all the way up to now and all the challenges I faced and it's all reflection, like I talk about it as if I'm going through it right then, but it all came from reflection to identify the different lessons that I had in adversity, to find purpose through the storm and keep doing what I'm doing today.
Speaker 1:I love that and I think that's so important. I'm just going to double down on exactly what you said, which is that the service academies, especially the Naval Academy, are incredible because they do a really good job of instilling this sense of service in you, right, and it's service as a virtue, right? I think sometimes people see you know the service academies and they're like oh yes, my service is the military service, like service is what I do. But I think what really makes the service academy so special is that they really do a good job of instilling that no service is who you are. The military is what you do, right, and you don't have to do a career in the military.
Speaker 1:Obviously, if you do a career in the military, that's incredible and we love that. But it's an idea of again developing young men and women, taking highly competent, highly motivated, highly impressive young men and women and developing them into leaders who have service at the core of who they are, right, as a virtue, and they'll go on to do that in the military. They'll go on to do that in the military, they'll go on to do that in citizenship and they'll go on to do that in government, right, and so you know, I think it's one of those really special pieces of the Naval Academy again is that we are dedicated to developing young men and women and turning them into leaders who are ready to go on and carry the sense of service at the core of who they are out into the world.
Speaker 2:Exactly, it's a way of life, man, in everything you do, you know how you treat everybody, the people you interact with, whatever extracurriculars you involve yourself in. It's like you said it's not all about just serving as an officer, right, I think sometimes and I don't want this to come off as negative I think we get so stuck in that that we miss out on the true development of what it means to be a leader, which is service to others. Right, and so it's not always going to be about the mission per se. You have to take care of the people too. But if you don't know that it's not really connected completely to the military, you're not going to know that your service is to the people as well. You can get so stuck in serving the mission that you forget about the people. So it's very important that you brought that up.
Speaker 1:Man Service is a way of life and everything you do not just like when you're actually doing the job. No, without a doubt and it's funny you brought up the Plebe Summer adversity story, because it was the same thing with me, dude. When I showed up for Plebe Summer same saying that I was a recruited basketball player I was like I can run yeah, I was like I'm in shape, and the morning pep runs were the worst thing in the world because I again the same thing I was like I don't run like four or five miles every day.
Speaker 1:It's horrible. You come in with that arrogance, you're like, oh yeah, no, I'm a, I'm a division one athlete, like I'll be totally fine, and then you start running. Yikes, I probably should have run a little bit.
Speaker 2:And then your squad mates and stuff want to compete with you because they know you're an athlete. I'm like look man, my pride. I know you got it. I heard my pride. If you want to sprint like 40 yards, I get with you then, but anything over that you got it. Man, hats off to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's that's always my number one piece of advice to incoming recruited athletes. It's like I know you know you're in shape for your sport, but just run, yeah, just run a little bit and get ready for it. Start running, please start running, save yourself, save the shin splints, save the knees hurting I'm about to get you some good running shoes too.
Speaker 2:Man got the little nike shoes you think you're good for you. Now you need something with some thick soles, because you're gonna be running. Running protect your knees and stuff.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely. And you talked again. You talked about these moments that were most difficult for you at the academy, Some of these plebs, some of these summer stories, your main football stories. Do you have any other academic or military related struggles or storms that you went through and how did those moments of adversity help you prepare for the hardships that you faced most recently in life? Kind of what lessons have they taught you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%, man. So growing up, I mean, I probably never made less than a B like, and a B was rare for me, so pretty good student. And now as you go to Naval Academy, man, man, you really get introduced to academics. And so I remember my junior year, 2019 first semester. You know football season is going great, like we're winning games. You know we go 11 and 2. That year, um, they were doing some renovations in rickover so my double e class was collapsed down, so there were like three classes in one. So it was like an actual college class at a regular campus like the naval academy, where you have like 80 to 100 people in your class. And so, man, I was in electrical engineering, I had a couple of my boys in the class and you know we're winning games.
Speaker 2:So I'm not thinking about school too much, like my grades are still decent. But I start to slip in double e and go from a B to a C to a D and I'm like, oh snap, like I'm borderline about to fail this class, like I need to lock in. And then we play Houston. Man, last game of the season. We play Houston and I get a concussion. And so I missed like the last three weeks of double E and I'm like, talking to my teachers, most of my teachers are giving me like waivers for the exams and I talked to my double E teacher. I'm like look, I can't take this exam right now. I've missed the last three classes. Like I need to pass it, like I got this concussion. And she's like okay, I'll let you take it next semester when you get back from Christmas break. I was like cool.
Speaker 1:That gives me enough time.
Speaker 2:I got the concussion against Houston. We had like two weeks off and then we were playing army. I wasn't going to miss the army game. I did have a concussion though, but I was going to recover in time for the army game. But the army was kind of after exam, so I'd already had the waiver. So I play in the game against army, cause I get cleared right before I play in the game against army. And I get back because we made a bowl game.
Speaker 2:So I get back, we work out for like a week before we go home and the academic dean calls me into her office and I'm like what in the world? And she tells me like hey, like I'm thinking about putting you in for a honor code violation. I was like what are you talking about? And she said you told your W teacher that you can't take the exam because you have a concussion. But you played in the Army Navy game and I was like, yeah, I mean I got cleared. Like trust me, I'm like I'm not trying to get over on her by any means Like if you want me to take the exam, like sure I'll take it. But honestly, I said I'm not. Like you know, I had academic dean list the whole time I was there. My GPA never dropped below a 3.0. So I'm like, listen, I'm not trying to get over on you, um, but listen, I said you can just fail me and I'm gonna take the class next semester and I'm gonna get an A, um, but so I failed double.
Speaker 2:E like I failed my first class at the Naval Academy and it honestly, I'm gonna be real with you, I cried in the office that day because I was so frustrated and disappointed with myself, because I'm like man, I've never put myself in these positions. But once again it was just a lesson like hey, man, you got to keep the main thing, the main thing. And I did take double E next semester. I did get an A, like I told her I would. It was humbling, man Fell in that class. And then I would just say swimming like taking swim classes at the academy was a grind and it taught me get comfortable being uncomfortable and push through adversity. Because I had to take those classes like courses like three to four times to pass, but I did pass and I kept pushing through it. So, just like I said, little moments like that building the muscle, resilience, failing and getting back up and keep going Definitely think it helped me to endure some of the things that I will face later on no, absolutely swimming's the worst.
Speaker 1:Hey look, I and I'm. I'm a land animal. I'm not like swimming's. Again, I can swim, but I can't swim fast, and all I ever wanted to do was like validate those swim classes and I could never do it. And there's nothing worse than because, because, again, if you validate swim class, that's one extra free period a week. That's a free period a week, but instead, instead of having a free period now, I got to walk all the way over to Lejeune, swim for an hour and then be late to my next class, walking all the way back and then go to practice that afternoon and you're exhausted, dude. The worst, the worst.
Speaker 2:When you just said LeJune, right there, I got like goosebumps man Thinking about hopping in that cold water, having to rush to another class and then rushing back to practice. I'm like man. They're not doing this at other schools that we plan against.
Speaker 1:It was a grind the grind, the grind, but you're not, you're not, uh, alone in failing double e. That double e is is one of the hardest classes that exist at the naval academy, and I'll tell you what like that difficult and also.
Speaker 2:I just want to make when you're taking other classes on top of it. You know on top of it like it's just double e and like english history not double e, you probably got a calculus class and then you're probably going to physics.
Speaker 1:Yes, You're taking 18 credits. You're taking 18 college credits, probably, like at a minimum, right At a minimum. And I think that's the craziest piece I talk about this again full transparency in the reality of the Naval Academy experience trying to compete at division one level. You have to go play at Memphis, you have to go play at Houston. These are big-time schools. On top of that, the Naval Academy really, in my opinion, from a pure academic stance, it is a high school on steroids.
Speaker 1:You go to class from 7.55 until 2.30, 2.20, every single day. Now, as a varsity athlete, normally six period is blocked so you can get to practice, but as a result, you're in class the entire time, except you have four periods in the morning. You go to lunch, you, you, you are you. Then you go to watch film or a lift or practice something and then you go back for fifth period. Like it's crazy, like you literally are taking five classes every single day and then going to practice right, like rolling straight into practice and the road straight into practice and the role straight in practice at a high division one level competing at a high level, like the coaches, don't feel sorry for you.
Speaker 1:They're not. They're not military, they're just. They're college coaches trying to make a livelihood man they gotta win.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to tell you they career on the line man. Sorry for you. So you just gotta make it happen and I think that's you know what kind of develops us. But yeah, it sucks sometimes. I do wish you know what would it be like to not have to worry about half these things. How good could we be if we didn't have to worry about half the stuff we dealt with. But yeah we wouldn't be who we are if we didn't deal with it. You know what I?
Speaker 1:mean no, absolutely. And I just want to touch back on one thing that you mentioned right, it's the double e story, which is like you got to keep the main thing, the main thing. How have you used your experiences and some of the adversity through the naval academy experience um to keep your focus now, as you go through difficult times like what, what are your routines, what are your rhythms, what are your again mannerisms to to keep your focus? Keep the main thing, the main thing, and how did that naval academy experience help shape that for you?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think at the naval academy, man, you balance so many things, especially as a varsity athlete, when dealing with academics. You know your sport and the military stuff that happens here and there throughout the year, and I always tell people the best thing you can do is keep a planner because you're not going to memorize all that stuff that you have to do. And so I would keep a planner to keep track of all my you know classwork, all of my stuff that I need to be doing for football and all of the extra meetings that I had because I was a class president as well. So I had that stuff going on on top of it and took other leadership positions at the academy. You know people are different. You know squad leaders, battalion commanders, whatever you do like, you have stuff that you need to keep track of, and I've taken that practice and I still use it today.
Speaker 2:I keep a pretty good calendar. I keep a little notepad for my to-do list for stuff that happens at work, because I'm not going to memorize all that stuff. So if I don't write it down as soon as somebody be like, hey, I need you to do this, I'm not going to memorize it. So I keep a good habit of writing all that stuff down the notepad. It keeps my life organized.
Speaker 2:I mean, honestly, the only thing that got me through the academy and the only thing that gets me through my life now is my faith in God and he kind of keeps the main thing. The main thing for me keeps me spiritually sound to be able to deal with some of the adversity. And I think at the academy I learned how to continue to lean on that relationship with everything that's going on. And it's just a toolkit you develop, man. Honestly, it's nothing that's really tangible, it's just you develop a toolkit from going to the academy to deal with adversity that translates directly to life, of being able to deal with all the different pressures that come on to you man, and I think it just speaks volumes to what you go through at that institution.
Speaker 1:Without a doubt, it reminds me of my favorite speech. I don't know if you've ever seen Kara Lawson. She's the head coach. She was a big time basketball player and now she's the head coach at Duke and she gives a speech. It's my favorite thing in the whole world.
Speaker 1:Right, she talks about, hey, a lot of people in life wait for things to get easier. They wait for things to get easier. We all do it. Right. It's like, oh man, I can't wait until you know for the high school kids out there that are listening right, it's like, oh, I can't wait until I finish my junior year, cause, like senior year, it's going to get easier. It's like, oh, I can't wait until I finished my fall classes, cause once I get to the spring semester, like I'm chilling. Right, like we, a lot of people wait for things to get easier, doing hard things Right.
Speaker 1:And this is this is why the Academy is so great, cause, like you mentioned, it gives you all of the tools, it gives you all of the repetitions of overcoming adversity. So, that way, you are ready to handle the next hard thing that comes into your life. Right, and there's something really beautiful and strong again about going through a lot of adversity, about facing, about sailing through those storms to be able to handle it, and true resilience. I love that you keep using this word resilience, because I feel like a lot of times it gets associated with just surviving. Resilience is just holding on. But in my opinion and I think this is what makes the Service Academy so special is it gives you real resilience. It gives you real toughness to be able to go through. Take all that adversity, experience those defeats, but just be so much stronger to be ready to do the next hard thing that comes to you in your life, right, and, uh, you know it's, it's really special and so, um, you know, I kind of want to even now switch, and not even switch, but kind of just transition to the next piece of your book, which is all about the idea of identity, right, and you talk a lot about how, when you've invested a large majority of your life into something, it can easily become a piece, if not the majority, of who you are and your identity.
Speaker 1:And for many people at the Naval Academy, that's the military. Right, it's like, oh, I've wanted to be in the military, I'm at the academy, I'm everything military, military, military. And then, when the military is not a part of their life anymore. It feels like they lose their identity right. For you that was football, for me it was basketball, and so my question to you is how did you shed your identity from what you did, and where do you find your identity now? And what was that process in that journey for you to kind of find who you are through this whole process?
Speaker 2:Man, like even. It's funny because when you say all that, man, I just get emotional thinking about it, because people don't talk about the transition, you know, especially when you're an athlete and say more than 80% of my life is I started playing football when I was five, ended when I was 22. You know what I'm saying. So that's like 18 years or something like that, 17, whatever it is. You know that's majority, more than 80% of my life. And you don't think about how much that runs your life Like, how much for me it's football, how much I never thought about how much my life revolved around football, because I always saw myself as more than the athlete you know, because I focused on my school, focused on leadership stuff, like involved in the community. So I never realized, but still, though, football was the glue that held my life together. My life revolved around it, from working out, from scheduling, from my relationship with my dad, my relationship with my friends. Like know the attention I would get, kind of gave me some validation. And so when I got cut from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, man, it was such an empty void in my life and I could not figure it out. I was like what's going on? Like I was like why am I feeling like this? Why I just don't feel any energy towards life anymore, I don't feel ambitious, I don't feel motivated. Like why do I feel like I'm not who I am? You know what I mean and you know I commissioned back into the Navy thinking that that was going to kind of help getting involved in something else, and it still wasn't doing it for me, because I was like something's not right, like I don't feel like myself, and it's because my identity was attached to something, attached to something that was tangible, something that can be taken away. And I tell athletes this all the time. I'm like listen, man, I made it to the top level of the game. You know less than 2%, but I always tell them, man, it's not about getting to that point. I was like you attach yourself to the game of football. Everybody has an expiration date. I said it's not going to be enough to get you to be able to accomplish things in life, even the guys that go off and be Hall of Famers. Man, it's like there still has to be something there that keeps you going, because once it's gone, it's gone.
Speaker 2:And so from going through that journey, I went on a soul searching, you know, period of my life where I was reflecting. That's where the book came from, because I was journaling and I was looking for answers. And as I started to journal, I started seeing these different lessons that happened and the different adversities of my life and even after I got cut and how I started speaking to kids and speaking to schools about my journey. I realized, you know what man, all of this stuff that happened in my life prepared me for what I'm doing now, and it prepared me for a purpose that's greater than me, and so, ultimately, my identity is in a God-given purpose to impact the lives of others, to help them overcome the adversities they might face, to develop into the person that they can be.
Speaker 2:And what makes me so reassured now is that the fact that nobody can take that away from you. Nobody can take away a purpose. People might take away an occupation. I might change from the military to corporate, to coaching, whatever it might be. My occupation might change, but my purpose will always remain the same, and I think when you find identity and a purpose that's greater than you, honestly I think it's the cheat code for life, man. It gives you everything you need to keep going every day. Do days still suck sometimes? Yeah, life gets hard. Do I still miss football? A hundred percent? But I have a different approach on life because I know it's bigger than me and I know I'm doing this for the other people that I might impact one day.
Speaker 1:Nah, it's so special and I'm really glad you brought that up on two factors One, which is the spiritual factor, because I think it's so important for, again, all of our service members, both at the academy and then once you get out in the fleet, is to maintain that, that connection to your faith, and to what, to what grounds you? Right, because, like you're saying, if you attach your identity to your occupation, you're going to go through these waves, right, you're going to go through the highs and lows. It becomes a rollercoaster. It's something I did, right, and I associated early on my service to my military to like my military occupation, right, but, but it took a while for me to really kind of readjust and put this idea. It's the Jesuit ethos, like I'm very in tune with my Jesuit Catholic faith, and it's again it's this idea of being a man for others, right, like, how are you of service? Right, how are you constantly attentive, caring, loving and taking care of the people around you? Right, and I think that's a really, you know, interesting piece and it helps so much because I had, you know, mentors in my field, right Again, constantly remind me, which is that the military doesn't have to be who you are. It may just be what you do.
Speaker 1:And if you keep that purpose, if you keep that idea of being a man for others, you keep that idea of service at your core, that idea of service as a virtue, then you're going to take care of your people and be an incredible military officer, right? Because regardless of what your designator is, regardless of what service, whether you're a Marine, whether you're Navy, whether you're an aviator, a submarine or a SEAL, whatever the case is, your primary job is to take care of the young men and women who raise their right hand. It's an oath to the constitution. You are a leader, first, and your job as an officer is to be that person for them, to take care of them, to lead them, to help them, right To like, be that resource for them.
Speaker 1:And so you know, I love that conversation and I appreciate you bringing it up, because we all experienced that in our own lives, right, and for you, that primary factor was football. For other people maybe another thing, but the reality is, if you can keep that purpose at the core of who you are and take care of people, right, it's going to be an extremely special experience. Because if you invest in the people in the military, if you invest in that and are less focused on the what in, like the overall mission, and more focused on the people that are in your division, in your squadron, whatever the case is like, that's where you get the true beauty of the military experience because, again, they're going to take care of you, but only if you take care of them right and you have that genuine selflessness, right, um, and that's where the fulfillment comes from.
Speaker 2:I always tell people take care of them right, and you have that genuine selflessness, right, and that's where the fulfillment comes from. I always tell people take care of your people because I promise you, the Navy has so many good people in it that if you take care of the people, the mission is going to get accomplished. We have talented people and so it kills me when people are like mission, mission, mission, I get it. I'm not saying the mission is not important, but if you don't take care of the people, the mission is not going to get accomplished to its fullest potential. Right, like you cannot take care of your people, get the job done. But trust me, take care of your people and then get the job done. Like it's a whole different kind of sense of mission accomplishment, because now they take pride in it, because they know they have somebody that actually cares about them, that's leading them.
Speaker 2:And another point that you touched on that I want to hit on it that actually cares about them, that's leading them. And another point that you touched on that I want to hit on it's like the military. You don't. The military doesn't have to be who you are to be good at the job. You know what I mean. I think sometimes people want you to strip away everything else that's in your life and military, military, military, like it has to be. Everything you do has to be military and it's like no, no, no, you don't have to strip away who you are. To be a good officer, to be a good sailor, whatever it is in the Navy, like, you can bring what, what to who you are is what makes you special, what makes you unique, and you need to bring that to your command because that's what makes a great command.
Speaker 2:And I think especially the concept of faith. Man, it's hard to keep your faith in the military just because you're so busy. You have a lot going on and you know we're not talking about faith. A lot in the military, at work and stuff. We try to keep all that stuff outside, but you need to keep it for yourself because if that's who you are, if that's your foundation, you need to bring that with you because you can inspire other people simply just by living your life. That way, you don't have to be pushing it onto them, but they will be able to see yeah, that's a man of faith right there. By the way, he's treating me by the way.
Speaker 1:He's talking to me, things like that, without a doubt, and that is going to be the next piece of our conversation. But I couldn't agree more with everything you just said, which is, again, the fact that your job in the Navy and Marine Corps it's going to give you purpose, right, it's going to give you life fulfillment, but you need to invest in the people, right. The real way you're going to get the most out of that is by the way that you pour into the people who are a part of your team, right. And so you know what's great about the military experience, what's great about the service, academy education, and then your life as a junior officer in the fleet is going to give you the opportunity to pour into the experience. And when you do that and you take care of the people around you and you're a good dude and you live that service.
Speaker 1:First, mentality, right. You're going to find true mission, purpose and fulfillment in your life, and it's unlike anything else, right, and it's really incredible. So, um, but an important piece of that is being able to to show up right. To show up to work both mentally, physically and spiritually, Right. And so that's where I want to turn this back over to you, which is you mentioned that it's difficult, right, it's difficult to maintain that kind of spiritual health during your time in the military. What's your best recommendation for how midshipmen can maintain their connection to their faith in their spiritual side while going through the stresses of the academy? Right, we have a lot of kids who listen to this, you know, who are getting ready to show up to the academy and they're looking for a little bit of guidance on that. So what would be your best recommendation on how to maintain their connection to their spiritual side?
Speaker 2:Yeah, first off, understand, it's going to look different. It's going to look different. And I mean, I grew up going to church every Sunday, wednesday night, bible study, like you know. It was non-negotiable. But obviously when I went to the academy that changed a little bit, man, you know, from not having liberty on Sundays to, you know, football, like church, wasn't really a regular thing for me and for the longest I felt bad about that.
Speaker 2:I felt like I wasn't giving God, you know, the energy that he deserved and I felt like I wasn't being good in my faith, good in my relationship, but then I realized you know it's about developing a relationship with him. Obviously you need to make time, you need to prioritize and make time, but it's not always going to look like you sitting in a church getting a sermon right For me. A lot of times, man, it's just me reading my Bible at night. A lot of times it was me reading my Bible in the morning, before I just started my day off, writing down scriptures and posting them, like underneath my desk, like on the little wall on the cork board, and just seeing those daily reminders. Every day Kept a Bible in my backpack. Man, every now and then, throughout the day I'm just getting a verse here and there to keep me grounded.
Speaker 2:But I think the most important thing you can do is you can get you a mentor.
Speaker 2:So I had Kirby Myers who ran our FCA program. He would just send me stuff, sometimes throughout the week, and obviously we've had FCA that met on Tuesday so I would be able to go to that when I could. But just having him there kind of just kept me grounded in my faith and gave me constant reminders. Okay, I need to go pick up my word, pick up the word and get in the Bible. I need to go study this, and so I think a mentor is good, but I also think just having that understanding that it's going to look a little different. You know, over time you'll get more free time, you'll be able to go to church, but just focus on keeping that relationship more than anything and kind of try to just build small routines in there to be able to keep you getting those doses of the word throughout the week, throughout the day, and I think that helps you over time to build that spiritual warfare that you need to be able to battle some of the stuff that you will at the academy.
Speaker 1:No, without a doubt, and it was one thing that I did a really bad job of as a midshipman. Honestly, you know, I went through a period where, you know, faith was was not active in my life, right, and uh, because, like you're saying it, it's hard. You have a million other things that you need to get done, a million other stressors to uh that are dominating your time, right, and it's something that that I struggled with greatly and it honestly didn't come back into my life until relatively recently. And but a big piece of that was discovering and establishing these routines that were that worked for you, right, that worked for you to be able to maintain that relationship. And so, you know, I appreciate you bringing up like the things that that worked for you, for me.
Speaker 1:For anyone who hasn't read the book, I highly encourage, encourage that you read this book. It's called stillness is the key. It's this guy, ryan holiday. He's a big stoic, uh, type person and author and for me, that's what really worked the most was I was like I took five to 10 minutes towards my, you know, end of my time in the Navy. It took five to 10 minutes every day and just sat outside, just sat, just sat in nature and just like was present, right, was just just felt what was going on and like was just extremely appreciative and grateful for like that moment. Right, for that moment.
Speaker 1:And so, um, you know that that really built and rekindled that connection, you know, with my faith and just like being out there. So, again, you're going to discover a million thoughts, recommendations, things that are going, but find that thing that works for you but it's so important, right. Again, all I can say now with this perspective is it's crucial to maintain that and find that and find those mentors. They're incredible chaplains at the academy, they're incredible. Books, resources, additional things on top of whatever your holy text is right, but just taking care of your faith right, taking care of your spiritual health is critical to your success overall. Right, because you need to show up and be able to show you know, be present and have the ability to take on the burdens of the people that you are leading as well, right, and be able to guide them through it.
Speaker 2:So, and I think that's kind of what changes when you graduate is you're no longer kind of responsible for yourself but you have people that you're in charge of. But it's very good to talk about taking moments to sit still, because I think sometimes at the academy, with how busy your schedule is, it's almost like if you're not doing, if you're not doing something, you feel like you're doing something wrong. So you try to keep yourself super busy. And I heard somebody say one time that like you don't feel like you're doing anything wrong when you're busy. You just go through the day accomplishing different things. But somebody said one time that if the enemy can't make you do wrong, then they'll just make you busy.
Speaker 2:Right, because what that does is it distracts you from some of the stuff that you need to sit still and take the time for, whether it's nature, whether it's reading a book, whatever it is, you know, take that time to sit still and so, so, like, even nowadays, like I always get to work probably five, 10 minutes early, sit in my car and I read a devotional before I go into work, because that simple three minutes sets me on the course I need to to be able to pour into the lives of other people, because if I don't fill my cup up, I don't have anything to pour into the cups of others. So that's why it's so important to take that time for yourself as a leader, because you can't pour out of an empty glass. You just can't do it. It's not going to be beneficial down the road, so definitely got to take the time to fill your cup up.
Speaker 1:No, without a doubt. All right, well, as we start to start to wind this thing down, first of all, thank you so much for taking the time to be here with us today and sharing your insight, perspective and your story, you know, to help and get back to the next wave of people coming through the Naval Academy. But I just want to turn it over to you for again, a big piece of Academy Insider, and what I want it to be is just highlighting all the incredible aspects of the Service Academy experience and letting people know why they should consider this, because I truly believe it's the best holistic education that you can receive, a life education you can receive. So what would be your recruiting pitch for why young men and women should consider a service academy education?
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you want to create a legacy that lasts beyond your existence on this earth, you need to go to the United States Naval Academy. And I'm going to tell you why. Because you're surrounded by so many people that are hard charging, hard working, good people, talented, excellent. You're surrounded by so much talent that you can't help but to feel the need to be great, right, Like it's going to motivate you to either be great or it's going to motivate you to leave because you feel like you can't keep up. Right, Like it's going to motivate you to either be great or it's going to motivate you to leave because you feel like you can't keep up. Right.
Speaker 2:But if you decide to stick through it, right, If you decide to push through those hard times at the academy, the type of person that you become, the type of people you meet, the type of network you establish, is going to set your life up for a life that's going to leave a legacy that lasts way beyond your existence. And, like we've been talking about the whole episode, the purpose of service, it's a way of life, and I think going to the academy teaches you that this life is bigger than you and it connects you to a greater purpose and then from there you take the people that you meet with I mean, take the people that you met while you were there, develop those relationships and just keep moving forward in life. And I'm not saying you can't do that anywhere else, but I know for a fact that you can do it at the Academy and you're going to be much better because you went there. And so I think I think it's a no brainer man. It's going to be hard but it's going to be worth it 100%.
Speaker 1:I appreciate it. And last question, let's give you an opportunity again. I'm so glad you brought up the idea of mentors you even brought it up in the spiritual sense but I think what makes the Naval Academy so special is truly the density of wisdom and leadership that is on the yard and people that are there to pour into your life and your development as a young person and as a young leader, and so I want to turn it over to you. Last thing, which is if there's anyone you want to highlight and say thanks to for the impact that they made on your life and your development at the Naval Academy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got to give a shout out to Captain Mendenhall. Man, there's so many names but I'm going to give a shout out to Captain Mendenhall. He was my battalion officer man and he kind of showed me that you can be who you are in the military right. Like he didn't have some kind of strict approach that he took, but you still took him seriously. But he also had that personality where it's like man you know, he cares about you and like he kind of showed me that the duality of being a naval officer, being able to care for people and get the job done. And so man, shout out to Captain Mendenhall. He led us through, you know, the battalion, through COVID, and looked out for us. He truly made a lot of things happen for me and I appreciate him for that. He knows he's my guy man. I'm definitely thankful for him.
Speaker 1:Mendy's the man Basketball O-Rep for a little bit as well, that's a dog. Alright Cam Genuinely. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. Thank you for again being vulnerable and open up and sharing your story right and sharing the storms that you went through and how that helped establish again the place that you've arrived to.
Speaker 1:And you know, I think having these conversations right, you know, what's really interesting is, as Academy Insider continues and I talk to so many parents going through the Pleap Summer experience, plebe summer is plebe summer.
Speaker 1:Again, people are going to go through hard times, right.
Speaker 1:People are going to face real adversity and really start to question their decision and that's why I love these conversations and I appreciate it and hearing these different perspectives and different stories because, again, the Naval Academy and plebe summer and all the experiences that you have, naval Academy and Plebe Summer and all the experiences that you have it's a process, right, and it's meant to be this way and every repetition you get at overcoming adversity is just getting you one rep stronger at getting ready to face the next harder struggle and challenge that's coming in your life moving forward.
Speaker 1:The Naval Academy is hard. Life in the fleet is even harder. Like you mentioned, when you're at the Academy, all you have to worry about is yourself, right? When you get to the fleet now, you need to take care of yourself, but also lead the young men and women who are a part of your unit, of your division, in your squadron, whatever the case is, and that is your primary responsibility. That is, your primary responsibility is taking care of those people under your command and under your charge, right and so, um, I just want to say thank you. I want to thank you for for giving back and sharing your story and your experience and, uh, you're the man.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it no, I appreciate you for having me, man. I appreciate you for everything you're doing, putting the positive light. Keep doing it. It's definitely reaching people, definitely touching people. I appreciate that, brother all right, well listening.
Speaker 1:hope you enjoyed the episode. Feel free to reach out if you ever have any questions. Otherwise, I hope you have a great day, thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Academy Insider Podcast. I really hope you liked it, enjoyed it and learned something during this time. If you did, please feel free to like and subscribe or leave a comment about the episode. We really appreciate to hear your feedback about everything and continue to make Academy Insider an amazing service that guides, serves and supports midshipmen, future midshipmen and their families. Thank you.
