Property Rights, Farming, and Standing for Truth with Ben Freeth

In a time when socialism is gaining more support the idea of private property, even in the church, can tend to be viewed as selfish and unnecessary.  Does God care about private property? As Christian farmers how should we view ownership of the land? Shouldn't we just have everything in common? In this important episode Noah Sanders interviews Ben Freeth about his experience standing up for property rights in a country where they were violently stripped away. They discuss the bibical basis for private property and share practical application tips for homesteaders and farmers. 

Note to Parents from Noah: I just want to make you aware that in this very personal interview Ben shares some of his experiences of being tortured for his convictions. All my young children listened to him share his story but you may want to use discretion with your own kids. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Welcome to the Redeeming the Dirt Podcast. This is Noah Sanders, and so glad that you're joining us today. Today we're going to be talking about something that relates to farming but isn't uh always a topic that we discuss often, and that's the actual land and the way that we set up management and that we that we just the idea of ownership of the land and especially private property, which is what many of us in uh in the US have enjoyed for many years and take a bit for granted, but that we don't realize how important it is to agriculture. And also we're going to talk a little bit about how that could apply to how we um set up our own farming operations, how we work with other people in community, how we um help our kids to catch um a passion for agriculture. Today I'm joined, uh really blessed to be joined with a new friend uh that we just met a few days ago, Ben Fried. He's from Zimbabwe, and so glad to have you with us today, Ben. Oh, it's really great to be here now. So we're currently sitting in my basement uh before we eat lunch. We're on our farm here, and we've uh been out moving chickens this morning and uh been spending the last couple days with each other, and it's been just a real blessing to get to share stories and to get to share what God's doing in both of our journeys. And Ben has uh been called and used by God over the past um years to really speak into um areas of God's heart for justice and for um you know private property, and that probably isn't something that you ever anticipated uh being a calling on your life, is it?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

No, not at all. I was rather thrust into it. We lived in Zimbabwe and we were on a family farm in Zimbabwe, um, and we had a situation where suddenly the president was wanting to take over all these family farms, and um property rights kind of went out the window, the rule of law went out the window, and and we were kind of left in a situation where government could do anything that they liked to us. And so we had we had judges and we had um people, civil servants and ministers and members of parliament and and guys from the army and the police just coming over to take to take our farms, um, even though we had title deeds to those farms, um, and we were we were suddenly left in a position where um people were being thrown off their farms uh violently, you know, often being um beaten up and sometimes being killed for uh staying on their farms, and where the law was made to uh criminalize us for living in our own homes and uh farming in a country that was fast becoming very hungry and and very dependent on food aid from America and other places. So um I was thrust into it. I had no idea about law, I had no idea about the foundational importance of of property rights. Um and so it was it was a real uh it was it was learning on my feet um and asking God for wisdom as we went along as a family. Um what what would he have us do in this situation? What was he what was he calling us to do?

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Um how long had you been a follower of Jesus at this point? Like how much had you been had your faith been a part of you know the the way that you've been looking at farming and your life and stuff?

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Well, I was very much a Christian and and and part of the church, but it I think it's very often only when things become really, really tough and we have to become totally dependent on the Lord that our faith um really gets tested in real fire. And um certainly my faith, I can I can say, as a result of this fire that we've been through, um, has just had to grow. It continued to grow, and um it's been in many ways an amazing time for for my faith, you know, through these last 20 years, and I've learned so much about um the graciousness of God through through this last 20 years. Um learned really that at the end of the day, it's only God that we can depend on. We can't depend on on the police to protect us, we can't depend on our neighbors to protect us because they would just be put in jail if they did come to protect us. We we could not depend on on the courts to to protect us because the authorities um were in charge of the courts and and were criminalizing us through the courts. Um and so ultimately we couldn't depend on ourselves, you know. That that's that's something that we we very often think. Well, you know, I can depend on myself, you know. I I can uh I can arm myself up, I can get um my family with with guns, and and we can defend ourselves. And uh we realized very soon that that was um a ridiculous thing to to even contemplate when we were up against um a police force of 20,000 men and an army of 40,000 men that all had guns and were prepared to use them against us, um, and and had the state resources to be able to do that. And and so I had friends killed um who did try to defend themselves. And uh so we we realized that we could not depend on ourselves, we couldn't depend on anything to do with the state. Um, and so who who can we then depend upon? We can only depend upon our Lord, our savior, our creator, um who is able to take us through these times and uh bring us out the other side much stronger.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

So could you uh just give us a little bit of a description of like um what agriculture looked like in Zimbabwe at this time? Like what is your you know, when you talk about your farm or the farm that you were a part of, what did that look like?

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Well, our our farm was was quite a big commercial farm. We had um it was two farms joined together, um, so it was 6,000 acres. Um, and we had on that farm we had uh about 40,000 fruit trees, mangoes and and citrus mostly. Um and then we had so those were all for export. We had a wildlife uh uh safari lodge was with many different animals, giraffe and waterbuck and sable and impala and zebra and um fildebist and all sorts of different animals. Um and then we also had a cattle operation on the farm as well. Um and the farm was also set up, you know, we we we had vegetables and we had a few milk cows for us and our workers, um, and so we were kind of pretty well self-sufficient on the farm. Um a lot of the farms around us were tobacco farms, but commercial agriculture as a whole in Zimbabwe used to um produce 40% of the farm currency earnings in the country, and we used to export out of Zimbabwe to the region and Europe and Middle East and Far East. Um so it was it was a very productive farm and uh somewhere that was pretty close to our hearts, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

So it's it's really hard to imagine you know a situation like that where you're up against basically your own government coming to take your property, criminalizing you when all you've been doing is working the land. Uh what did you and your family decide to do in response? Like, how did you once you get down or you realize you don't have any options, what what options are there as far as what did y'all decide to do?

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Well, we we realized that this was pretty much a sort of Ahab Jezebel kind of situation, you know, when when um Naboth was uh approached by Ahab to to give up his vineyard to Ahab. Um Naboth said, no, this is my my family inheritance, this is my family farm. Um I'm not prepared to to give it up, even if you give me somewhere else, which we weren't given that option. Um and and so we believe very strongly that as a family we we we wanted to we wanted to try and stay, we wanted to try and uh be a part of continuing to build the nation, um, be a part of employing people, uh, be a part of um the productivity of the country of Zimbabwe. Um this was our home. And my my father-in-law certainly, his his family had been on the African continent for over 300 years, so it it was a long establishment of roots on the continent of of Africa, farming all those years. And so we we decided as a family that we we had to do what we could to fight what was going on, and like neighbours to to refuse to just just give in. And obviously there were strong incentives to give in. Most people did kind of say, well, you know, we we can't carry on any longer, we're not prepared to face years in jail for staying in our own home. Um and the jails in Zimbabwe are pretty horrific places, you know. When you when you do go to jail in Zimbabwe, you end up very uh in very cramped conditions, sleeping on on the floor with lots and lots of other people, so you're kind of lined up like sardines. Um the the lure, the the toilet is is kind of in the corner of of the cell, and it's just a bucket, an overflowing bucket. And the only way that you actually turn over in that cell is is when you all turn over together. So it's it's a pretty horrific way to spend, you know, even a few nights. And so most people decided, well, the the best plan is just to just to uh leave, and and so many people got off their farms, um, weren't able to take anything with them, uh no tractors or or anything like that, uh, and then they they left the country and they went to other countries, to Zambia or or other places to try and start again from scratch. Um we decided that we we wanted to or that it was um beholden on us as Christians to and God called us, I believe, into this to to uh stand in the gap to uh um actually take on this dictator Mugabe who who no one wanted to to take on because they knew the consequences of it. Um and we we realized that the consequences of it were were you know pretty dire. There was uh a strong chance that we would be murdered for standing up to him, just like Naboth was was killed. And so um, you know, I can remember when we signed the legal papers, we we knew when we signed the legal papers that we would be uh my father-in-law signed them, that that he was probably signing our death warrants. And and I can remember when when we were in the lawyer's office there, it was like yesterday, that I can remember tears streaming down my face because I knew what we were letting ourselves in for, but I knew also that it was something that God was calling us to do. And um and that somehow He would take us through whatever in in uh whether we were to live or to die. Um and we had to realize that as Christians, like Paul did, that to live is Christ, um, but to die is gain. Um and so so life while we are here is not necessarily the be all and end all. Um you know, we we will all die at some point.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

We kind of forget that sometimes, don't we?

SPEAKER_01 14:04

No one lives forever, no one ever ever has. Um and and so but but there was intense fear nonetheless. Yeah, you know, we we are not immune to fear, and we went through times of of intense fear, you know, when when uh when you take on a dictator, you you're you're taking on the apparatus of the dictator, which is fear, they they rule by fear, and uh so we had all sorts of very alarming situations um through the years, uh and you never knew from one day to the next whether you would still be there uh the the next day. Um and so whenever you heard a vehicle coming up your driveway, you thought, you know, are these guys coming to to do evil against us? Um and so you you know it it's a hard way to live, um, but we felt called to to do this thing, and and the amazing thing was um we went to the Supreme Court knowing that we would lose in the Supreme Court because all the judges in the Supreme Court had been given farms already, um and they were not gonna not gonna rule in our favor, they were all uh all the former judges had been chased out, um literally chased out through fear, through intimidation, made to resign, um actually been attacked in the Supreme Court itself, um, in the building of the Supreme Court while they were sitting on a land case. Um so we we knew that we were gonna lose in the Supreme Court, but we felt led nonetheless by God to carry on. And amazingly, within a week of our hearing in the Supreme Court, the um SEDIC tribunal, this new court, a regional court for the whole of Southern Africa, for fifteen countries in Southern Africa, opened for business without us or our lawyers even knowing anything about this court being um being even a fledgling court court being developed for the region. Um so suddenly this court was open and and um and it was it's an amazing story of how God um kind of led us led us through and um my father-in-law was then arrested and faced trial for farming illegally on our own family farm in a country that was starving, and that you know, all things work for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purposes. That arrest and that possible jail sentence that was going to happen gave us the opportunity to then go to the SEDEC tribunal because all domestic remedies were failing within Zimbabwe. This trial was going on, and so we were able to go in in 2007 to the SEDEC tribunal, and we we we had a very good hearing in the SEDEC tribunal. Um we got preliminary uh interim relief until such time as the main hearing was heard, and so uh we were able to carry on on the farm for for a while. Um and we we had various uh uh further visits to the SEDEC tribunal where the government tried to delay, tried to um cause all sorts of issues until finally we had our our main hearing coming up in July uh 2008. And two weeks before that hearing we had the most awful kind of situation where um government forces uh thugs um uh abducted us and uh tortured us and wanted us to sign a bit of paper to say that we would not carry on in this court. So we were out in in the bush or the woods as you you would call it here in America. And by then it was dark, it was very cold, um there was uh the water was freezing on the ground. Um there was no moon that night at all and and uh they uh stripped most of the clothes off us and and poured water over us and tried to baptize us into the name of one of the spirit mediums. Um which which obviously as Christians we you know we're not afraid of and um but it was a it was a very violent night, you know, but they they they beat us uh very severely um to the point where where I had a fractured skull and broken bones and my ribs and uh um I was very bruised up all over over my body from from all the beating. And my my father-in-law likewise had had seven broken bones and they had they had beaten his head maybe sixty times with with rifle burts and iron bars, and and my mother-in-law as well, uh they had uh beaten her up really badly to the point where she had a severely broken arm and um beaten around her head. Um and at one stage they had she got a stick from the fire and they they thrust it in my mother-in-law's mouth. Um so it was a it was a very brutal uh scene. Um and you know, we didn't know whether we would live or die through it. I can remember, but at that time at she praying to God, I said, you know, Lord God, if if you if you want me to come to be with you tonight, then I'm ready. But if um you've still got stuff for me to do down here, then then I'm also ready. And I I was absolutely 100% at peace about whatever God decided in that situation. Um and I I I genuinely had a perfect peace, which was only from God. Um and I can remember at one point I I actually untied the the bonds that were um around my my wrists, you know, they tied us up with ropes, and I untied the the knots around my wrist as I was lying in the dust on the ground, and um and then I'd managed to actually untie the the ropes around my my legs as well. And I was thinking, you know, I I can get out of here. My my limbs are still okay. Um I can get out of here. It's a very dark night. These guys are uh uh many of them are pretty high on on drugs and things. Um they're not gonna shoot straight, you know, even though they've got maybe 20 guns between them, um they're not gonna shoot straight. And what what once I get past the first little bit, um you know, it's very thick bush and it's very dark, and I'll be able to lose them. And and then I thought, no, I can't do that because they'll just they'll just shoot. My parents in law. And so they then found that I'd untied myself, and now they were picking me up by my belt and and just beating me with with shambox uh hippo hide whips. And and and the pain was was was intense. I can remember just crying out with each blow, Jesus, Jesus, and and just calling on the name of Jesus with with each blow because the pain was so so intense. And and one of the things, you know, that it was an amazing night because um one of the things that I really struggled with through this whole thing is is Jesus tells us to to love our enemies. And I knew that that was that was right. I knew that that was um something that was that Jesus did. You know, he he loved his his enemies. Um he loved us, each one of us, even in our sin. He he loved us so much that that he was prepared to lay down his life for us. And so I I knew this, uh this is fundamental to our faith as Christians. But for me to actually do what Jesus did and find love for people that were doing this kind of thing to to us, to our friends, to other members of our family, um I was finding really difficult, you know. In myself, I could not find love for people doing all these kinds of things. And you know, I I can remember lying there on the ground, and um and it was just the most amazing thing happened because suddenly I had, and it wasn't from me in any way at all, suddenly I had a love for the people that were all around me. You know, many of them were were young guys, they were 16-year-olds, taken away from their families, uh, indoctrinated into the way of of hatred and and fear, and and I realized that they were all just um human beings, just the same as each one of us are human beings that are hurting human beings that um that need the love of Jesus. And um and I I just had this this incredible love for them. And and I by this time they had tied my hands up really tight. And so lying there on the ground, I just saw all these all these legs, all these ankles around me, you know, bare feet. Um and and I just reached out for the nearest pair of of bare feet, and I said, May the Lord Jesus bless you. And then to the next pair of feet the same, may the Lord Jesus bless you, and and again, may the Lord Jesus bless you. And and I had this this incredible sense of of freedom, you know, even in that very, very dark place, all tied up, all beaten up, all bloody, all uh not knowing whether we were gonna live or die. Um I had this tremendous sense of of freedom as as I as I did that. And um knowing that that is what Jesus has done for us to set us free. Um and from there they they they made some calls and things. It was actually quite a quite a strange situation because it was the same afternoon that our president was being sworn back into power after a very bloody election where a lot of people had been killed and very severely beaten, just the same as we were. And and so the world press was actually in the country at the time, and suddenly this family that were taking the president to court, the same president who was being sworn back into power after a sham election, um, was was missing, you know, we were missing. Um and and so suddenly this this story kind of burst onto world headlines, you know, all over the world. Um, you know, where where is this family that that that is like Naboth taking on this president who is taking away their farm, taking away their home. And um anyway, they made calls and and amazingly uh they bundled us up into vehicles and then they uh we bumped around on on little dirt roads um for for a long time and and they took us eventually to a town and dumped us between two churches untied us uh and and said we're sorry for what we've done. And and then they left and we were obviously pretty close to death at that point. Um I stumbled towards a light and knocked on the door of this house in the early hours of the morning, and um and phoned my wife Laura and uh other family members came with Laura to to uh pick us up and take us to the hospital and and and get us get us seen too. Um and amazingly, two weeks later, although my parents-in-law were still in the hospital, I was able to get to this court at the Select Tribunal in Namibia in a wheelchair on the airplane and um be there at the main hearing um where our case was was put towards these five judges um who made an a amazing judgment a few months later to say that what is going on in Zimbabwe with all these all this taking of private property is um something that is against the Select Region Treaty against international law. And so we we won the case. We won the case um and um that year we went ahead and we we planted a a full crop. Um uh and and uh I can remember it was the 28th of November um 2008 when when we we had this this incredible victory and and it would there was just such a euphoria, it was just such an incredible victory because we knew that we had we had planted a stake in the ground in Africa for property rights, and one of the biggest things in Africa that is holding Africa back from realizing the potential that it's got is this foundational thing of lack of property rights. No one can invest in the land because no one knows whether they're gonna still be on the land tomorrow or next month or next year. And and so you get this situation in Africa where even though we've got more agricultural land than any other continent, and we've got more agricultural potential than any other continent, and we should be feeding the world, the world is actually feeding us, and and property rights are a very big part of the reason why um we are not feeding the world, but the world is feeding us.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

It's just an amazing story. I'm really grateful for what your family did to stand for the truth, you know. I think as the church, oftentimes we want to get along and be nice with everyone and and kind of be known for that. And we feel like, oh, you know, property rights, what does it have to do with you know the kingdom of God or anything? But then as a church, we try to go and like help people that are in poverty, that are struggling with you know these you know agricultural problems. We think oh, drip irrigation or some new tube houses or aquaponics or something will fix all these problems when ultimately it's it's a bigger, like when there are areas that we have failed to address as the church, or even ask what does God say about, for instance, land and property rights? And when we get that wrong, you know, we're building on this faulty foundation. And when we as the church are not uh coming and letting Jesus and his heart and um speak to every area of life, then we can't just pick and choose, you know, and and our solutions are you know, it's like preaching the gospel to all creation, like Jesus wants to be Lord of over every area. And you know, I think when we don't seek the truth, then we start conceding the ideas that are not of the truth, and also to stand for the truth when we've neglected it or when others aren't costs us. And you know, it costs your family a lot, but that's when we're called to stand firm, then sometimes it's that price that God you know uses to show how valuable something is, you know, and the truth of it when somebody's willing to take a stand like that. Um and it just it's an amazing example. Uh so in the scriptures you you talk about the story of Naboth and that being something that really inspired y'all to see how much God cared about that.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

Is that you know it kind of I think you know, to to to to take the the Naboth story, you know, Naboth had a vineyard, and um and each vine, if it is to bear fruit, has to have a trellis on which to hang. And and that's rather like the story of of property rights, you know, property rights if if land is to be um productive, it needs a trellis, it needs property rights in order to be able to make it fruitful. And and so the story of Naboth, I think, was was very inspiring in in so many ways. And um the story of Ahab and Jezebel, so we we we go on a few pages in the book of Kings and we we start to read about um what then happened on Mount Carmel? And you know, the amazing thing about our farm was it was called Mount Carmel. Wow. And it was the flattest farm that you can ever imagine, and we never knew why Mount Carmel, why it was named after a mountain. I mean, what surveyor would ever name a farm after a mountain when there was no mountain on the farm? And particularly a mountain, you know, in Israel far, far away, when there were no other biblical names around us or anything like that. Um and so we started to realize that actually there's a prophetic reason as to why this farm was called after a mountain, even though it had no mountain on it. And and the story of what happened on Mount Carmel with Elijah and the same king, King Ahab and Queen Jezebel, was that Elijah challenged um the king. You know, he challenged the king and he challenged the prophets of Baal. Um and they had this big showdown on this mountain, Mount Carmel. And um and and of course, God came through and and fire came down from heaven, and and Elijah, even though he was one against uh all these hundreds of of prophets of Baal, um, he had God. And and we I'm often reminded that that one man and God, or one family and God is actually always in the majority. And sometimes as as individuals and as families, when we do stand up, we feel very isolated, and we certainly felt very isolated even in our own community. We were not invited to farmers' meetings, we were not um kind of welcome around the district because people didn't want to be tainted, people didn't want to be seen with us in case um you know bad things started to happen to them. Um, of course, there were the exceptions, but amongst organized agriculture, amongst um you know the at farmers association level, um, we were we were kind of um not not welcome, you know, we we were not invited. And um but what we have to realize is is as we go through life, you know, that that if we have God in our lives and He is calling us to do something, um He will come, He will come through. We will be in the majority even though that we don't think that we are Um because God is much bigger than everything else and so um we were uh we had this tremendous victory and everything and um and then and then we got discouraged or I certainly got discouraged um because with Ahab our our president President Mugabe made a speech the next year in 2009 to say that uh he wasn't gonna actually recognize what the court said. And within a few days of that speech, we had all hell let loose on the farm again, and for the next six months we were unable to do anything on the farm. Uh we lived in our house, um, but we weren't able to reap any of the crops that we had sown. They they these thugs that had come onto the farm. Um the farm had been given in inverted commas to um a government minister, one of the founders of the ruling party of the country, Nathan Shamirra. And so we weren't able to to reap any of our crops, we weren't able to do um anything on the farm at all. Um and we had six months of of living in a very precarious uh situation where these thugs would come round our house, uh they would take up firing positions in our garden with guns, uh they would um just to intimidate us, um they would uh come at night and they would set up um big uh plow dishes from and hang them in in trees around the house and and come with big iron bars and and smash these uh plow dishes so that we couldn't sleep at night and and they would threaten they would threaten to eat our children, they would threaten to burn down our house, um they would plow up our driveway using our our tractors um so we couldn't get out. They would uh just make life very, very difficult and and fear, you know, we we we were living, we were living in fear. Um I can remember one particular night where where the the police had actually come and they'd they they had said we're we're we're not gonna be around, we suggest you get your children out of here. Um not that the police were there to protect us anyway, but at that point we were taking our local police to court for not um abiding by the rule of law. And so the police wanted to come and threaten us. Um and the in the back of their vehicle they had a whole lot of tires. And um anyway, they said that they were now going over to the thugs that were at my parents-in-law's house. My parents-in-law had by this stage um managed to get out of their house, um, but with nothing. And um that night these guys came with the same tires that the police had dropped off, and they lit these tires all around our house um so that they were burning, and then they had uh they had wire that was attached to the tires, and they were pulling these tires around our garden, and then they broke down our front door, and and they were pulling these tires right through our house, these burning tires with the with the flames going right up into the thatch. Our our house was a a grass-roofed house. And um it it was a uh you know that these kind of things were just going on, and it was it was it was a terrifying time for us as a family. You know, it was it was I can't think of of any period of my life where where I've been so afraid as those six months. Um and eventually, eventually, in at the end of August 2009, they um they burnt our house down. They set a fire just to the south of our house with a strong wind and wind blowing towards our house. Um, and the fire just came through, burnt some of our workers' houses down, burnt um the linen factory where my my wife was employing about a hundred women doing hand embroidery, um, burnt um our own house down, and and they were busy with our own tractors, with all our firefighting equipment, um, just laughing at us. You know, it was it was a very hard situation. And then three days later they burnt down my parents-in-law's house with everything in it as well. So as a family, we walked off the farm with without even a toothbrush, you know. And so it was it was a really uh it was a it was a very tough situation for us as a family because we had we had won this tremendous victory, um, but it was in as far as translating that victory into um anything concrete while our dictator was still running around, you know, it was it was not possible. So though we know that we have got a victory for the long term, we've we've we've got something foundational for the long term, for property rights in the country, uh, for the rebuilding of the country in the future. We we are not able to be part of that rebuilding, certainly on Mount Carmel Farm at this time. And um you know that's that's sometimes been quite hard for us. Um, you know, I have a little bit like Elijah, I suppose, um been been quite despairing at times, you know, and uh I think all we all as as as Christians um can get to points where we are feeling low at times, and we must be real about that. You know, it's it's um not something that because we are Christians we are immune from. And um so I'd just like to encourage Christians that are feeling low at this time that that it's it's not um something unexpected, you know. Elijah prayed to die after that tremendous victory on Mount Karl. And I can relate to that under a You know, many great men of scripture um have uh have gone through times where it's been very, very dark. Um and and so I'd like to encourage you know anyone who is listening to this that um we're not we're not immune to to that. It's not because we haven't got enough faith or because um this unconfessed sin necessarily. I mean that might be the case, but um God is able to to take us through the dark times and bring us out of them um into uh times of blessing again, and um I I just want to uh attest to that that um you know I've I've been through a very dark time in in in recent times, and uh but he's brought me out through it and and I thank him for that.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

I think for those of us in the US that are you know, we take for granted something like property rights, to hear the price that you've paid to stand up, to stand for something like that really helps um you know bring home the value of that that most of us just take for granted. And uh, you know, it's it's easy um to see certain you know, Christians and kind of themes in the church where we start to um believe this idea that private property ownership that's really this kind of selfish, you know, um uh self-centered kind of way to approach things. If we really did stuff like the early church did, then nobody would claim to own anything. They would just, you know, share it with anybody. If anybody wants your farm, they can just ask it and ask and have it, you know, and those kind of um ideas. But uh obviously you felt passionate enough about this to give up everything because you believe this is something that's true and that reflects God. And what would you say to people that kind of have that idea that not only are property rights not worth giving up everything to stand up for, but um that we should, you know, that it's more Christian to just not claim to know to own anything.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Yeah, I I think we're all called different we're one body and and we're many parts, and we're all called to different things, and God puts on our hearts different aspects of um what his kingdom looks like. And you know, certainly for us as as Christians in Zimbabwe it was very pretty much put on our hearts that property rights are important, they're part of what God would have us stand for. Um and and when we look back through scripture, we we see the story of Naboth, we see um the way that the land was was divided up and and and people were given stewardship over um specific areas of the land so that that land could be looked after and stewarded in a in a proper manner. And um and then we get the kind of other argument that that well you know Jesus didn't didn't uh didn't value property rights and he said just just give everything up. I don't believe, and and and you get the whole communist kind of philosophy and the socialist philosophy and the and the sort of you know that the the the uh the hippie kind of sixties flower power philosophy where where let's let's just share everything and and um let's be um generous with with everything. But I think the I think the the fundamental underlying thing of of generosity is that you have to be able to own something in order to be generous with it. And um what we see in systems that around the world, and I and I've traveled a lot around the world where where states have kind of nationalized things and where where there is no real ownership is is we see things falling apart, we see stewardship is is is not what it should be in any way at all. Um we've seen that in Zimbabwe, we've seen we've seen our our nation going from being um the most uh productive nation in Africa to being um needing food aid every every every year. And and the the the this whole kind of thing of of no ownership means well we don't have responsibility any longer. We we we can um do what we like and and so it goes to the lowest common denominator where no one is really taking responsibility to steward the land. And I think in in communities um where people get together and they've got a they've got a wonderful idea of of sharing, um, what they need to realize is that they can only share if they've got ownership. And so um there needs to be specific ownership um within the community of specific areas uh if it is the land. And and I I just remember at school we we had a um my my kind of love of growing things started when I was uh ten years old, and I we could apply to have a little plot. I mean it was a tiny little plot, you know, maybe ten feet by ten feet. And um and I was a I was I I got a little plot uh at at the school and I was able to take ownership of that ten foot by ten foot and grow things myself as a ten-year-old kid. And I can remember I I never liked tomatoes, tomatoes as you call them, and um and I grew some tomatoes, and for the first time in my life, I just loved tomatoes, and and that's what comes from uh having ownership because you've stewarded that little ten-foot by ten foot plot, you've weeded it, you've irrigated it, you've fertilized it with compost and things, you've um made sure that those plants are loved. And then you eat of the fruit of those those plants, and they taste delicious, you know, even though you've never liked a tomato in your life before. Um, because you've had ownership of that little little space, God has God has uh set you up as the steward of it, and um, and that's I believe a very godly thing.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

And I think that whole idea of stewardship really helps balance the two extremes of you know, on one hand uh feeling like it's superior to not claim ownership and to just say it all belongs to everybody, but then like you say, it breaks down, you can't share because you're really just sharing other people's stuff at that point in time. Um and then there's the other extreme, which we do have because we have a strong property rights history in the US, you know, people can tend to be like, you know, you you take any of my stuff, I'm gonna shoot you where you stand, kind of thing, you know. And when you think the two kind of real underlying principles of stewardship is one, stewardship implies that somebody else ultimately owns it, and that is God, right? And so we recognize we are just caretakers for a season of the land, but as stewards, he has given us individual responsibility and authority that go together in order to be able to do something with that land, and he's not gonna hold us corporately and judge us uh corporately for the use of the land, he judges us individually, right? As what we have done with it, and so if he's gonna hold us individually accountable, or we can't, then we have to be individually responsible and able to do that. And so we don't want to fall into either extreme where it we view selfishly like it's mine, I'm gonna you know, keep anybody off of it, and just this this violent attitude that I think your story really shows such a good picture of standing for what's right by being willing to suffer for what's right, not by being willing to hurt other people, you know, because you think something's right, which you uh you know, which other people chose to take that option, but y'all were willing to take a stand to suffer for what was right, and uh, and recognizing your your responsibilities of stewards and basically standing up for God's the the real owner of the land. I mean, that's kind of what you were doing, right? Is you were you were standing up for God's rule over the land and the way that He chooses to do it, and it it costs you because obviously the enemy doesn't like that, and uh but I like that picture of what you're talking about with the garden and and how that really when you were able to have your own little plot, that it just brought so much joy, and I think God's wired us that way, and even as we set up our farms with our own little families, or maybe we have a community garden or something, all of us should find ways to make sure that we build that principle in of not uh putting setting up a community, a commune kind of thing that restricts everyone, but setting people free to express their individuality and the way that they steward the land before the Lord, and there's a richness and a vibrancy and accountability and a way to show mercy to one another when yours doesn't work as well as mine, and I have as well, you know, more tomatoes because yours didn't work, I can share them with you versus you know they're all ours, and there's no joy in sharing them because they don't belong to any one of us. And I think there's a lot of principles we can take from this idea to apply, and obviously, always whenever we we act and live in light of what God cares about and who what reflects who He is, then there's so many blessings that go along with that, and there's the ability to reflect the heart of Christ in a better way to the world. Um, and I think that your story is a really um an amazing journey and example of how God's done that through your family. So thank you for your testimony, thank you for sharing your story, for encouraging us um on this topic and to continue to think through this more about what God says about this. And uh any any other last uh words of encouragement for people starting to think about this maybe for the first time?

SPEAKER_01 56:11

Yeah, just just on the whole property rights thing, I think you've you've nailed it. It's it's um property rights releases the God-given potential that is within each one of us. And so it it's it allows us to express what God has has put in us, and when property rights don't exist, um it's very difficult for that God-given potential to be released into uh the world around us. So um that's that's what it's about, and um many of us who who who enjoyed property rights um previously in Zimbabwe had no understanding of the foundational importance of property rights until property rights were were were taken away from us. So you know I can understand the American lack of understanding of this foundational principle because I was there too. Um and it's something that I've learned over these last 20 years, the the importance of the foundational importance of um so you know thank you so much everyone for for listening and um may God bless each one of you with with godly wisdom and how to apply this.

unknown 57:44

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 57:45

Awesome. Well, can you just close this and I would just sometimes like our guests to just pray for the audience and then just God would be speaking to them and and how to apply uh what we've talked about today.

SPEAKER_01 57:57

Lord Jesus, we just thank you that you are over all that you are sovereign. That with you we are always in the majority, though sometimes we feel that we are not. And help us to um be able to stand for you in in the various aspects of uh life that is around us and um be able to be salt and to be able to be light in a rotten and uh and dark world very often. Um so Lord Jesus, yeah, help us in that, help us to be able to understand this this um amazing thing that you have given us in in property rights and being able to steward land um for you and and be able to be uh generous for you on on the land to others. Um we just ask for your wisdom, for your grace, for your goodness in in our lives. We thank you, Jesus, in your name.

unknown 59:02

Amen.

SPEAKER_00 59:04

Amen. Well, thanks again, everyone. Again, today my guest has been Ben Friedh, and thanks again, Ben, for sharing. And anybody wants to learn more about him and his story. Uh, there's uh plenty of things online if you look up Ben Friedh. There's also a documentary, right, called Mugabe and the White Zimbabwean, White African White African, sorry, Mugabe and the White African. And uh so yeah, I encourage you to look that up. But uh thanks so much for listening again today. This is Noah Sanders, encouraging you to be humble, be faithful, and to keep redeeming the dirt. God bless.