Transforming Safety Protocols: Nick Brown on Ansell’s Innovative Approach

In this episode of the Sustainable Supply Chain Podcast, I sit down with Nick Brown, Senior Director at Ansell. With over 20 years of experience across various industries and continents, Nick brings a unique perspective to our discussion on workplace safety and sustainability.

We dive into the profound impact COVID-19 had on the PPE industry, highlighting the dramatic surge in demand and subsequent supply chain challenges. Nick explains how Ansell adapted, addressing both the immediate needs during the pandemic and the long-term implications for the industry.

Nick also sheds light on Ansell's innovative connected workplace solutions under the Intelliforce brand. These IoT devices not only enhance safety by providing real-time data and analytics but also contribute to overall workplace efficiency and sustainability.

A significant portion of our conversation focuses on Ansell’s commitment to sustainability. Nick outlines the company's ambitious targets, including achieving net-zero emissions by 2040, reducing water usage, and implementing comprehensive recycling programmes.

Tune in to learn how Ansell is leading the way in integrating safety and sustainability, ensuring a safer future for all.

Elevate your brand with the ‘Sustainable Supply Chain’ podcast, the voice of supply chain sustainability.

Last year, this podcast's episodes were downloaded over 113,000 times by senior supply chain executives around the world.

Become a sponsor. Lead the conversation.

Contact me for sponsorship opportunities and turn downloads into dialogues.

Act today. Influence the future.

Transcript

Nick Brown: 0:03

Connected workplaces are inherently better set up to generate data, to provide better analytics that can not only then help support safer practices and improvement of processes, but also just make the workplace more efficient and more productive in general. And you know, as I've heard a few times on this podcast, gains in efficiency equate to gains in sustainability.

Tom Raftery: 0:27

Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in the world. This is the Sustainable Supply Chain Podcast, the number one podcast focusing on sustainability and supply chains, and I'm your host, Tom Raftery. Hi everyone. And welcome to episode 24 of the sustainable supply chain podcast. My name is Tom Raftery. And I'm excited to be here with you today sharing the latest insights and trends in supply chain sustainability. Before we kick off today's show. I want to take a moment to express my gratitude to all of this podcasts. Amazing supporters. Your support has been instrumental in keeping this podcast going, and I'm really grateful for each and every one of you. If you're not already supporter, I'd like to encourage you to consider joining our community of like-minded individuals who are passionate about sustainability and supply chain. Supporting the podcast is easy and affordable with options starting as low as just three euros or dollars a month. That's less than the cost of a cup of coffee and your support will make a huge difference in keeping the show going strong. To become a supporter you simply click on the support link in the show notes of this or any episode. Or visit tiny url.com/sscpod. In today's episode of the podcast, I'm talking to Nick Brown from Ansell. We'll be talking connected, PPP and sustainability. And in upcoming episodes, I'll be talking to Andrei from Dexory, we'll be talking about warehouse robots. Elizabeth Corbett about packaging from AE Global, Lenny Morano from Lectra and more so watch out for those exciting upcoming episodes. And back to today's episode. As I said, my guest on the show today is Nick. Nick. Welcome to the podcast. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Nick Brown: 2:18

thank you, Tom. Absolutely. First of all, thank you very much for having me. I'm excited to be on the podcast today. I'm a long time listener, first time caller, as you might say. But by way of introduction I've got a little over 20 years of experience now working in a variety of different industries in business to consumer, business to government, and business to business, primarily in commercial and commercial leadership roles. I've been fortunate enough across my career to work really all over the globe. So I started my career in Sydney, Australia. I moved to Dubai in the Middle East and have since worked in the UK and more recently in New Jersey in the US. And currently I work for a company called Ansell, where I lead the services department. Ansell is a very well established 130 year old company, originally Australian, but now truly global. And our vision is to lead the world to a safer future. We are a manufacturer of PPE. We're best known for our hand and body protection solutions, but we also offer a range of different services and solutions that go well beyond PPE. Such as our connected workplace and IOT solutions under a brand called Intelliforce, which is one of the areas where I play my role. And we really look at the ecosystem around a customer and their safety needs and try to identify how we can add the most value and provide a suite of services that support that.

Tom Raftery: 3:36

Okay. Interesting. And is it just a coincidence that Anselll is Australian and you're working for Anselll out of America, or is there some story behind that?

Nick Brown: 3:47

It's, it's not, it is a coincidence, yes, but it was also a benefit when I was looking to change my career. I started my career at Coca Cola, as I said before, in Sydney and, and had a real taste of that kind of CPG world. And then when I looked for personal reasons to move to the Middle East. I heard that Ansell was setting up an office there. And Ansell is a very well known company within Australia. So I'm sure if you've any listeners in the audience today from Australia, they'll be quite familiar with Ansell. Whereas outside of Australia, where we're really a household name we're more of a hidden industry. PPE is one of those industries that supports the manufacturing of just about anything that you or I might, might see around the world. Health and safety is of course one of the critical elements that manufacturers must be cognizant of and, and any PPE company will have a breadth of different customers within industry, but it's not one of those headline grabbing industries except for example, when a pandemic comes along and it's thrust into the light light. So, some coincidence there with the Australian connection. It certainly helped me to want to join the company, but that's where it ends for me personally.

Tom Raftery: 4:51

Okay. And I mean, I don't think the vast majority of people were familiar with the term PPE until COVID came along. How did COVID affect Ansell's business?

Nick Brown: 5:04

Well, quite, quite dramatically, it's fair to say. I think as you, as you say, it was one of those industries that wasn't spoken about so much until it was. And very suddenly too. So overnight, the demand for all types of PPE, whether it's masks, gloves, body protection, anything that could really represent a physical barrier and protect people, not just in the healthcare setting but all throughout our daily lives went through the roof. So, so suddenly there was a huge imbalance between the need for our products and the ability of the global supply chain really to supply that need. And of course, when there's scarcity in anything, the value goes up. So the pricing went crazy. The supply was very difficult to manage. And governments and media all around the world had to act and had to bring more awareness to what was going on. So, certainly it was a seismic shift within the industry. We saw a peak of demand, a peak of pricing and put a lot of artificial value into the industry and became very, very disruptive for supply chains around the world. And then what we saw as as PPE was no longer in such critical demand, as the pandemic started to get under control, the vaccines took effect and, and some degree of normalization came, that demand, of course, disappeared as did a lot of the artificial pricing and it left the industry with something of a hangover, actually that it's still cycling through almost at the end now, but a lot of stock that inventory throughout the supply chain that couldn't be used, that might have gone obsolete already. I was actually reading not long ago about just instances in the UK where, they believe somewhere between 8 and 10 billion pounds worth of unusable PPE, inappropriate PPE was purchased during that period. And looking at it through the perspective of sustainable supply chains, it's of course, incredibly inefficient and, and, you know, it's staggering to imagine quite what an impact environmentally that would have. All of this product made for, for nothing and shipped around the world to ultimately not be used. So, yeah, certainly a very impactful period within our own industry.

Tom Raftery: 7:09

Okay. And it's, it's not just, equipment that you guys manufacture to help people in kind of a pandemic situation, obviously what other kinds of protections, or protective equipment are you making for organizations?

Nick Brown: 7:27

Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, and so I mentioned it in the introduction, our vision really is to lead the world to a safer future. And when we look at the perspective of safety from, say, an EH& S, an environmental health and safety manager in a business, they have various different levers that they can pull. They have a hierarchy of controls as to how they can make their workplace safer. PPE, as mentioned here, is really the last line of defense. That's for when there is a criticality to have either a, you know, a human touch on on a process or a product. Or when all other methods of elimination can't be used. And so whilst our history with Ansell has traditionally been providing the best solutions that we can for that last line of defense to have the, you know, the best performing products in hand and body protection, we have seen as we, you know, really want to be more valued in the eyes of our customers that we have to expand our portfolio to a range of services. And one of the areas that we've really focused heavily in is in connected workplace safety. And here, you know, we, we see an opportunity that the, to support our customers connected workplaces are inherently better set up to generate data, to provide better analytics that can not only then help support safer practices and improvement of processes, but also just make the workplace more efficient and more productive in general. And you know, as I've heard a few times on this podcast, gains in efficiency equate to gains in sustainability. And, and so by shifting our focus to not just playing in PPE, but really to that, that deeper support network that we can provide customers with digitized solutions. Certainly with IOT devices, it, it helps us to support their gains from a number of different perspective. And where I'd say it gets really interesting from the perspective of safety. It's not just those improvements that would be achieved from digitization of EHS processes, but we can now leverage IOT devices and we do this under a brand called Intelliforce that we have, to start seeing things that are previously not really visible to customers. If you're in the workplace and you get a nasty laceration or a pinch injury, it's evidence immediately. You can see it. You have an issue on your hands. You have a worker that's going to need some kind of first aid and potentially lead to a missed time injury, a lost time injury. Whereas MSDs musculoskeletal disorders one of the biggest contributors to, to total injury spend for companies. I think in the US it's over a third of all spend annually. Over 16 billion are generated yeah, it's, it's quite a lot from musculoskeletal disorders. Yet the actual cause of them is often less visible and sometimes totally invisible. So by expanding our suite of services to include pods that can capture movement from the hand and forearm and identify, you know, what types of movements are repetitive in nature or risky in nature we start to enable safety leaders and ergonomists to identify ways to mitigate and to work out the risk that's caused there which of course can have a tremendous impact not only on the health of the workers themselves, but, but also really on a number of other areas. It's relieving the burden on health systems. You know, MSDs are typically long term injuries. They can cause or generate an awful lot of need for healthcare throughout a worker's life. So you lose the, if you don't mitigate them, you can lose efficiency on the lines in the short term through absenteeism, but you then have a much greater risk of a long term injury requiring multiple visits to, to doctors, to chiropractors, to, you know, whoever it be, to administer care. And the burden of that on health systems is, is quite considerable.

Tom Raftery: 11:13

Interesting. I'm just, I'm curious, obviously this is important in the likes of manufacturing and in warehouses, but just speaking from personal experience, I've got a, an RSI, repetitive strain injury in my shoulder from using the mouse, sitting at the desk and using the mouse. So do you have solutions that work in an office environment as well, or is it solely for manufacturing, warehousing, that kind of thing?

Nick Brown: 12:15

It's interesting you mention that, you know, really our target verticals, our target customers would be large manufacturers, healthcare systems, as said before. But the need for this kind of information, this this kind of bringing to life or making visible what is often an invisible art form is prevalent everywhere. And when you look at ergonomists, often they spend an awful lot of time working on solutions for the workplace. So you think of office chairs, I'm sitting in an ergonomically friendly office chair today, that's what I'm told. But, but the repetitive strains that you can get there, I think are in some ways more documented and more actively worked on than those in areas where workers are putting their bodies under significantly more strain with more risky movements per day. In, in a, in a manufacturing or a factory or a a warehousing environment. And, and the reason for that is that in those industries, often it is just expected that a job needs to be done. And where automation can't be introduced, there has to be a solution from a human to be able to make things happen, to, to attach pieces, to do quality control, to move boxes from one location to another. And aside from. manual handling guides and, and the work of ergonomists to try and train as best they can. Once out in the workforce, the activity is, is not as well reported as it could be. There are of course, tremendous improvements in recent years with vision AI, with recording technologies, with IOT solutions, such as, as those that I've just referred to in better recording risky movements and anything that might, lead to longer term MSDs. There are also more and more solutions out there now, when we look at exoskeletons and other support devices, which can help with with the needs of workers but it is still, I would say, an under resourced and under appreciated area. And the impact that it has on the total chain, once an msd has occurred, the$16 billion in the US alone that I spoke to before outweighs the effort. It's. put into this space. So, we don't necessarily have solutions for, for clicking a mouse and, and that industry that, that kind of environment, but but, but certainly it's something which is under more and more scrutiny.

Tom Raftery: 14:29

Okay. Okay. Cool. And is your solution, the connected solution, is it hardware? Is it software? Is it a mix? Do you work with sensors from other manufacturers or do you white label sensors or make them yourselves or, you know, where to, where do you fit in that spectrum?

Nick Brown: 14:46

Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's a mix, you know, and we have various different solutions that we have under our connected workforce umbrella. So whether it's digitizing health and safety processes, so helping safety managers to record observations and hazards in the workplace to enable workers to communicate more effectively on issues that need to be fixed which is really more of a SAS solution. So that is, that is, you know, pure software all the way through to integration of hardware and firmware that will enable the capture of movements and, and there, you know, without giving too much away, of course, you know, we, we work with other manufacturers of hardware who specialize in, in motion pods and create bespoke analytics that, that we then leverage to generate insights for safety managers primarily, but also for workers too, so that the, the training can be direct and real time. So we, we have the ability through the hardware to deliver haptics that will remind workers that they might need to stretch that perhaps they're going too far with a certain risky or repetitive movement during their work day. So we can have degrees of immediate intervention but then we also have that analytics, which can drive probably broader and more effective processes of elimination of targeted training of whatever's really needed to make the workplace safer and try to avoid and mitigate the chance of generating MSDs.

Tom Raftery: 16:11

Okay. Interesting. And a number of themes and topics are coming up in the sustainability space at the moment, which we haven't talked about yet. And maybe they're not relevant. Maybe they are, you tell me. One of them would be circularity and another one would be obviously emissions. So are these topics that you're doing anything with or is it just worker safety?

Nick Brown: 16:37

Yeah, no, very much so. So I think any large multinational company right now, if they are not already working actively on circularity and emissions and don't have clear targets, then I think they're now in very much the minority. Ansell is no different. So we take our responsibility to people and to planet incredibly seriously. It has become actually one of the, the dominant themes or ethos within our own culture over recent years is to really walk the talk when it comes to the role that we play in, in protecting both planet and people. And there I see our challenge is quite multifaceted. So, as a corporation ourselves, we have very clear targets that we are striving towards they're ambitious targets. You know, we want to be net zero in Scope one and two by 2040. We've already managed to get to almost a hundred percent zero waste to landfill across all of our own plants. We have some very significant water reduction initiatives underway, striving to kind of minimize withdrawals by 35% by 2025. So we have some. Some bold targets that we're working to and we're very open and transparent about that, but we also have a significant part to play as a manufacturer, as a supplier of our own customers in the achievement of their scope three targets as well. And that's where we're, we're starting to play far more of a prominent role in working with collaborating with our our own customers and our distribution partners to make sure that we're able to deliver solutions. That, that achieve that goal. And that are quite broad in nature so that we can be able to, to drive benefits whether you're a company that is looking to slash your own emissions, whether you're looking particularly through an ecotoxicity lens, what, whatever it be, we, we, we're trying to make sure that we can be relevant and, and that we have goals and processes that support that. One of the most prominent initiatives that we have, we've called Ansell Earth. We focus on five pillars within Ansell Earth. Here we're looking at material, manufacturing, packaging, in life and then end of life. So, when you strip it back to material, you know, it all starts at the design phase, of course, trying to make sure that the products that we make of course, first of all, fit for use, you know, we are a safety company and we need to make sure that we're producing products that will always protect workers whether that means from disease and virus in a healthcare setting, whether it's from abrasive or rotating tools in a manufacturing setting. I want to make sure that we provide the most appropriate protection, but also in the most sustainable way. So we, we look at the content of our products. We're striving to use more and more recycled yarn to get that right balance between durability and ability to recycle at the end of their life as well. And that's quite a tricky balance sometimes to strive if you're trying to make something tough and hard and protective but then also able to be broken down effectively at the end of life. It presents PPE manufacturers with quite a challenge as it does, I'm sure many, many other industries. Then through the manufacturing, we spoke a little bit to some of the initiatives that we have to lower our own emissions and to create products which have a lower CO2e footprint themselves through packaging, where we look to use more sustainably sourced packaging. We're trying to reduce the amount of packaging that we have in general, and I've had some really great successes recently in cutting down packaging by over 50% on a number of products within our range. And then using far more sustainable products in the moving to paper from plastic and so forth where it is feasible. And then to me is where it gets interesting in my role within services is the in use and an end of use or end of life. Sorry. So when you think about a PPE product, many people will immediately imagine disposable throwaway medical examination gloves, which of course are certainly a challenge to us all in terms of how we find the most effective ways to, to deal with them in an end of life. But these are designed really to be used to protect either the product or the person and product. I think of things like life sciences where you might be creating vaccines or other such medicines that need to be, you know, made in very clean environments and very much protected. So. Would require throwing away or can become contaminated and require throwing away. All the way through to the kind of gloves that you might imagine somebody on a work site with which are, which are thick and durable and hard. And so we try to find ways and to partner with companies to extend the life of products where that is possible, to launder rather than to have a throwaway culture, and to make sure that once, you know, a product has been bought, it has as long and as useful a life while still having those safe, protective properties as possible. And finally, then end of life. And this is an area that we see customers increasingly looking to us as a manufacturer and having far more conversations in general around what we can do to support end of life solutions primarily around the recycling of goods. So again, I'll say it, you know, we make these goods to be durable and they're often made of a variety of different yarns of different coatings. And so in order to, to to be able to recycle at end of life, you have to work with some progressive technologies. We have some partnerships underway at the moment, looking to optimize. the extraction process so that we can remove certain portions of the product to make clear recycling streams for each. And then, you know, really drive the behavior at customer level that will support recycling programs and again, avoid any any waste to landfill. So it's quite a long answer there. Sorry. I but I think really it's an area that putting so much focus and time in right now that, that indeed there's a lot to speak to.

Tom Raftery: 22:30

Okay, and do you have your own manufacturing facilities or is it contracted manufacturing?

Nick Brown: 22:37

It's, it's a mix primarily our own manufacturing facilities, but we do then, of course, work with a network of manufacturers for some parts of our range too. And you know, we, we have to have strict contracts with those third party manufacturers where applicable to make sure that they're also adhering to the high standards that we would expect of them.

Tom Raftery: 22:56

Okay, and in your own manufacturing facilities, are you rolling out your own solutions to keep your own workers safe? Eating your own dog food as it were?

Nick Brown: 23:04

We, you know, we are, and, and I, it's interesting. I was recently visiting one of our largest manufacturing facilities in Sri Lanka. And it was great to see a mixture of both products and technologies that were being utilized by our own workers and, and keeping them safe. So yes, we, we certainly do supply our own, our own factories proudly. And and it gives us a great great testing ground and a great understanding of, particularly in the connected workspace area. What is really useful? What do our own safety managers see the most value in and need? And therefore, how can we then scale that and take it across to our customer base as well?

Tom Raftery: 23:40

Okay, great. And do you have customer success stories you can speak to?

Nick Brown: 23:46

yeah. Absolutely. So, so yes, one, one customer I think I could talk to without, without naming specifically, a large automotive manufacturer that would be familiar to to everybody, I'm sure within your audience based in Germany were facing a particular problem with the recycling of of our gloves and nothing to do with make up of our own gloves. They were facing a particular problem with recycling themselves. And as a company, they'd put a huge ethos on circular solutions and sustainability. So it was important for them to, to fix this issue. Now out of all of their PPE, they came to us first because gloves in particular are quite difficult to to recycle. We've spoken before about being made to be durable being made from a number of different materials, which add complexity. They're also used in rather high volumes. And so this particular customer looking at their own prioritization wanted to partner with us primarily to explore how they could find a sustainable solution for the end of life of these products because they were ultimately using them through their usable life having their workers discard them and it was all going to landfill being mixed up with with other waste which is something that of course we want to avoid. And we play our part, of course, in making recyclable products. We then need to partner with customers to make sure that they have a path to actually recycling. And so in this instance, you know, we have a great story. We were able to strike up a partnership with them to have dialogue around options that we have within our network of of potential recyclers in different parts of the world and to introduce them into a new program, help with the change management and, take what was once a very unsustainable process for end of life and make it sustainable. And increasingly we are seeing customers coming to us and asking us for this kind of partnership. So, it's an area that we expect to expand in the future.

Tom Raftery: 25:38

Okay. And

Nick Brown: 25:39

Just

Tom Raftery: 25:40

just from a practical perspective, did that require just simply putting recycling bins around the place, having the workers put the gloves in the recycling bins, collecting those bins and bring them to a recycling facility? Or was there something more than that involved in the solution?

Nick Brown: 25:56

At a very, you know, kind of, At point of work process. Yes, that that's more or less it. But there is more behind the scenes too. So understanding working with the recycling partners in the first place to understand if they have the capability to recycle the products that we have is quite an extensive process. So we need to provide you know, a full breakdown of the way that our products are made. We need to verify that everything within the that product makeup can indeed be processed at the plants at the processing facilities that are available within that that specific recycler and it changes. So we, we have certain recyclers that specialize in in polyesters. We have certain that might be better at nitrile. Others that can really deal with some of the heavier duty cut resistant products that we have. We have to have recyclers that might be capable, for example, of removing zips from coveralls, if we think of chemical protective clothing. And so we have to, first of all, do the homework to make sure that we find the right partner. And, and then introduce the program at site level and change is notoriously a difficult thing to drive through in any workplace. So that comes with some training with with, with some education on, you know, what should be placed in which receptacle. And, and then, you know, it's not just enough really these days to provide or support a process of recycling. Every customer wants a personalized view of the impact of their activities. I rattled off some of the ambitious targets that we have as a company. That means very little to our customers. They know that we're doing the right thing. They know that we're transparent about our goals and we'll track it. That that's great, but it can be something of a checkbox sometimes from a customer's perspective. They want to know how does this impact me? And so what, you know, what we also do provide is a closed loop on sharing the data on the impact of their activities. So once the products are taken and are accepted into a processing facility. We will be scanning the weight of the, of the produce that is provided and then feeding back via dashboards, some information to the company on, you know, what have you done to mitigate, how much have you avoided sending to landfill? And that's something which, you know, I think used to be a value add and now is seen really as table stakes to be able to quantify those activities for their own scope three calculations. So it's a little bit more involved than than the physical process, but the most important part of it you could argue really is just, just following that right process and putting the right things in the right bins.

Tom Raftery: 28:23

Okay, yeah, that kind of leads me into the next question I was going to ask as well. There's one of the other themes or topics that's talked about a lot in sustainability, sustainability these days is greenwashing. So, is that verifiable data that you're passing back to customers? Is that one way that you're ensuring that you're not greenwashing and you're protecting your customers from accusations of greenwashing?

Nick Brown: 28:48

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a little bit of a minefield from a supplier perspective and from a customer perspective as well. When we talk about greenwashing, greenhushing and, and really how we can be sure that the decisions that are being taken are the right ones and the best ones. So I'd start by saying, I think it's very, very difficult dynamic to, to navigate. Certainly we see two of the most important areas to focus on are in transparency and inaccuracy. And so, you know, as a company, we, we are traditionally quite conservative. We want to make sure that if we're going to make a claim that it is fully credible and backed by science. But if I put myself in a customer's shoes and they want to have specific information, let's say on the emissions impact of a product that they're going to buy, they're going to take often a number from one company and a number from another and compare the two. And it's a very hard dynamic to be faced with because that's not necessarily going to drive them to the most informed decision. Is company X taking averages to build their LCA's and to come up with the final number. Whereas company Y is tracking very specific tasks to a minutiae detail and and then feeding it in and therefore has a higher emissions number. Are you talking cradle to gate or are you talking cradle to grave? These are dynamics that not only are difficult for a customer to, to get their head around, but also necessitate having individuals in purchasing or decision making authority that, know the lie of the land as well and know the right questions to ask and can understand how you would get to a point of knowing, you know, which is going to be the most suitable solution for you. So, so yes, you know, we, we focus again on, on transparency, on accuracy. We recognize that every company, whether it's our competitors or our customers are going through an evolution. And they're going to be at different points of that evolution. So we try very much to educate to get on the front foot with, you know, not just claims about what we're doing, but how we land at the numbers that we share. What are the exact details of the initiatives that we're undertaking to achieve the goals that we've set? And, and I think that You know, really, there's not a lot more that you can do in this world. Aside of course, from following the regulations that are, that are coming thick and fast to help provide a bit more of a level playing field that customers can use to, to, to select products from. Then try and focus on transparency and, and accuracy, and just know that the devil is in the detail and it's a little bit dangerous just to simply compare one number to another without really doing your homework on, on how those numbers have been aggregated and and shared,

Tom Raftery: 31:24

Sure. And where do you see all this going? I mean, we've seen a big increase in people's attitudes towards sustainability, I guess, and a big increase as well in regulation in the space. Where is it all going?

Nick Brown: 31:43

I think it's trending very positively. I think, you know, from the perspective of wanting to do right. I believe that both government and big business are working step in step to try and drive improvement and progress. But where I think it's going is that the most successful solutions seem to be those that are really a collective endeavor and collaborative in nature. So where we see the most success is certainly when we partner with our distribution partners, with our customers, with our own suppliers to achieve the goals that we set. And, and I think the other thing which really ties in to drive success and where we're going and where we're going to see more is that topic of regulation. So, you know, the regulators, particularly we see in the EU are trying to find different ways to drive consistency. And you know, a very simple to benchmark process for companies to follow that will result in claims, which can be more easily compared against each other. So they're trying to take some of the guesswork out of, you know, I have a product which has got five grams of emissions and I have a product which is seven. They're trying to drive the right level of of consistency in how those numbers are arrived at. And I think that that's, you know, a critical support. But there has to also then be that desire from business to be moving in the right direction as well. And to be putting sustainability as a higher priority within their own decision making process. And again, you ask, where do I see this going? We're certainly seeing a lot more companies, both governmental and independent businesses that are looking to have, sustainability as a number one, two or three metric and targets around that in their decision making criteria for purchasing, which is something which we just didn't see, you know, five or six years ago. So I think that trend is going to continue. We're going to see it rise further in prominence from a decision making perspective. And ultimately, I think that there's going to be more and more transparency that is driven by that. So as soon as a customer tells you, you know, we're going to decide whether we work with you or your competitor based on, on a criteria of price or quality or sustainability. It's amazing how quickly markets will respond to that and, and we'll drive gains in those areas. So good, good progress being made. I think a lot more science based targets will be out there, a lot more transparency in how they're being achieved. And I think we'll continue to see, you know, claims being made by manufacturers almost as prominent as prices and features and benefits of their products. We're going to start seeing sustainability metrics tied to to the purchase of that product.

Tom Raftery: 34:24

Interesting. So do you reckon that the increasing interest in sustainability is driven by, driven more by regulations or by a desire to be more competitive.

Nick Brown: 34:38

You know that's a really good question, and I'm not sure that I am the authority to know ah the exact answer, but I, I do think that the trend is driven by both. I think that, you know, marketplaces are typically driven by competition. So one of the key forces of economics and, and so, you know, there's going to be a huge ingrown desire from organizations to walk the talk and to provide differentiation to their own customers through sustainability claims and through sustainability initiatives. When I look at Ansell, you know, the company that I work for, we've very clearly put a stake in the ground to say that we see the services around our products as being as critically important as the products themselves. And from that design phase, all the way through to how we support our customers, extend the use of those products and recycle them and manage the end of life as effectively as possible we, we know that that's critical. And so that's something which is, which is ingrown, but there will also then be the, the demand from outside and the regulation that enforces other companies that might not have been in a position to be able to put so much focus on sustainability as, as others to catch up. And, and again, that the level will rise automatically as a, I think a combination or an effect of both of those two forces. So we're moving in the right direction. I think another trend that we'll see is perhaps a little bit of a moving away from what we see at the moment with this kind of carbon tunnel vision that we tend to have when we talk about sustainability. I don't mean to be critical in talking carbon, decarbonization is critical and, and it is a great way to be able to aggregate the impact of your activities. But there's a lot more out there that we need to be mindful of. And I think when we look at PEF, for example, we're going to see A number of efforts that come from regulators to make us think more broadly about the topic of sustainability and look at ecotoxicity, water consumption, social impacts and a number of other areas too, of course.

Tom Raftery: 36:38

Sure. Sure. We're coming towards the end of the podcast now, Nick, is there any question I didn't ask that you wish I had, or, you any aspect of this we haven't touched on that you think it's important for people to think about?

Nick Brown: 36:52

No, I think we've really kind of gone on quite a journey today and and, and thank you for, for, for stewarding us that way. I, I think that really from, from our perspective, you know, it's great to have the opportunity to come and engage in this kind of a forum and to discuss those topics, which are near and dear to our heart. I think, you know, we touched earlier on human sustainability. And that's an area which will continue to be a real key focus for us is how can we make sure that we're delivering insights as well as products, which are going to support longevity in careers, support gains in efficiency and productivity, lessen the burden on healthcare systems around the world, and really protect workers. So that will always be our ethos. I think we touched well on it today. So no, that's, that's about it.

Tom Raftery: 37:38

Great, great. And if people would like to know more about yourself or any of the things we discussed on the podcast today, where would you have me direct them?

Nick Brown: 37:46

Yeah. I think a great place to start would be our website, which is www. ansell. com. So this is a great platform where you can learn a lot more about the initiatives I've spoken to today, such as Ansell Earth. And the five pillars for sustainability that we have under that. And if you wanted to reach out to me directly to discuss any of these topics I'm findable on LinkedIn, Nick Brown, Ansell should get me there. So, very open to any conversations that come from it.

Tom Raftery: 38:16

Fantastic. Nick, that's been really interesting. Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today.

Nick Brown: 38:22

Thank you very much for having me.

Tom Raftery: 38:24

Okay. Thank you all for tuning into this episode of the Sustainable Supply Chain Podcast with me, Tom Raftery. Each week, thousands of supply chain professionals listen to this show. If you or your organization want to connect with this dedicated audience, consider becoming a sponsor. You can opt for exclusive episode branding where you choose the guests or a personalized 30 second ad roll. It's a unique opportunity to reach industry experts and influencers. For more details, hit me up on Twitter or LinkedIn, or drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook. com. Together, let's shape the future of sustainable supply chains. Thanks. Catch you all next time.