On this episode of Change Makers, enjoy an update on the Monarch as it's set to launch in just a few short months. There have been numerous interviews and updates about the Monarch, and each time there’s something bigger and better to discuss…and that holds true for this episode. We’re learning more about the price of the Monarch and how you can get on the list; feedback about the Monarch and how the overall reception is shaping the software; and the latest with eBraille.
On this episode (In order of appearance)
Additional Links
On this episode of Change Makers, enjoy an update on the Monarch as it's set to launch in just a few short months. There have been numerous interviews and updates about the Monarch, and each time there’s something bigger and better to discuss…and that holds true for this episode. We’re learning more about the price of the Monarch and how you can get on the list; feedback about the Monarch and how the overall reception is shaping the software; and the latest with eBraille.
On this episode (In order of appearance)
Additional Links
<silence> Welcome to Change Makers , a podcast from APH. We're talking to people from around the world who are creating positive change in the lives of people who are blind or have low vision. Here's your host.
Sara Brown:Hello and welcome to Change Makers . I'm APH's Public Relations Manager, Sara Brown . And on today's episode, we are doing a spring update on The Monarch. There's been numerous podcasts and interviews about the Monarch, and each time there's something bigger and better to discuss, and that holds true. For this episode, we're learning more about the price of the Monarch and how you can get on the list,' feedback about the Monarch; and how the overall reception is shaping the software. We'll also get the latest with on the eBraille format. Up first, I have APH's, Vice President of Innovation and Strategy, Anne Lancaster here to talk more about the price of the Monarch. Hello Anne , and welcome to Change Makers .
Anne Lancaster:Hi , Sara. It's nice to be back.
Sara Brown:And before we get into our interview, do you mind us to introduce yourself and let our our listeners know who you are?
Anne Lancaster:Sure. Sara. I'm the Vice President of Innovation and Strategy at APH, and that's kind of a fancy term to basically say we work on the, the customer serving side of things, so that's product development, marketing, customer experience, and research and development. But these days, I feel like my job is the Monarch. That's, that's like what I do. That's , uh, in my dreams. It's, it's every day because this is a very exciting time.
Sara Brown:In a very exciting time indeed. We've got the Monarch. And, you know, I feel like if you're at APH you are probably thinking about the Monarch. I feel like everyone is thinking about the Monarch <laugh> talking about the Monarch
Anne Lancaster:There and dozens of people working on different aspects of the Monarch. And it is , uh, a full-time job.
Sara Brown:Now , talk about how the Monarch will revolutionize learning.
Anne Lancaster:You know, I think that's a great question because learning has revolutionized considerably itself over the last several years. And I think we have the pandemic. We were kind of headed in that direction at a nice little leisurely pace, but the pandemic accelerated it more than we could have expected. You know, there were kids in online classrooms for two or three years, they're getting their , uh, their textbooks and their classroom materials digitally. And , uh, that we, we don't see that things going back to the way they were before Covid. That's not happening, you know, that's still the way that kids are working in school. So, you know, our concern, of course, is making sure that blind students don't get left behind in this , uh, technology revolution in education. And in many ways, the Monarch, although it's a revolutionary device in and of itself, what it will do is just help keep pace with all of the changes so that, you know , so that our kids don't get left behind. And, and also very importantly, that Braille doesn't get left behind, because historically we've seen, when there is a technology revolution , uh, the accessible alternative of that often defaults to audio or, or some other means. And it's, it's, well , audio works very well for a lot of people. Sometimes that's not the preferred way to learn something. And Braille literacy is something at the very forefront of a's values and concerns. So as this revolution in learning continues, it's, it's important for us to revolutionize accessibility so that braille and that students don't get left behind in that. So that's, you know, I think we, we were on this path anyway. We've been on the, the search for the holy braille, as they call it for a very long time. But, you know, when Covid hit and we saw how students were being left behind in that environment, we saw ts traveling hours to put paper braille under the door or through the window <laugh> or whatever it was. Uh, we said, this isn't gonna work. You know, we've, we have, we felt like this huge responsibility to get this work done as quickly as possible and into the hands of kids so they will not be left behind. And that, that was our mission from, from the get go .
Sara Brown:Now, with that, the Monarch, it's, it's almost time for it to, to fly away. Yeah. And with that, I know there comes just that, that little, little, sometimes that little gut punch, that little, "Hmm. Is there anything, is there anything that, that's a concern? What did we not address? What, what's left?" Is there any concern about this device hitting the classroom?
Anne Lancaster:I think, you know, concerns on our side are so many and we couldn't even go into them. And this podcast, you know, there's, we've never done anything like this before, right? So we don't, we don't know what's going to go wrong yet. Uh, fortunately, you know, we've been working with teachers. We just , uh, completed the teacher training. We have nearly 200 in the hands of teachers right now. They're providing us excellent feedback. So, you know, a lot of unanticipated issues. We're getting the opportunity to address those right now. So, so there are those concerns. Now in terms of concerns that we're hearing from the public, you know, I have to say , uh, the idea of the Monarch and what the Monarch can do, the response has just been tremendous. I mean, everyone has a new idea we haven't thought of, of how it can be used in the classroom, how it can improve learning experiences, how it can make a TVI's job easier, all of those things. Just really nothing but good feedback in , um, in that aspect and so many great, great ideas. But I would say probably the biggest concern that we're hearing from folks is, is what the Monarch costs. And , um, you know, I think that's a double-edged coin , right? It's , uh, there's concern about the cost, but also that means people want it <laugh> . So that's, that's good news too. But, but I get it. I I totally get it. The Monarch , uh, will list at about $15,000 on quota and about , um, $18,000 if you're a cash customer. And that's a lot of money. That is a lot of money. But, you know, I , I just to kind of provide some perspective, because again, remember the Monarch is brand new technology. We've never had multi-line braille showing tactile graphics in a dynamic way where you can, you know, automatically graph your math. You can see tactile graphics from a library, in instance . There's so much that it does, and we've never had anything that we is really comparable. But, you know, it's, it's very common for the first time that you create something that it's going to be expensive at first. And just , uh, for some context on that, you know, in the nine , early 1980s, there was the Versa Braille, one of the very first , uh, refreshable braille devices. And , uh, it had to hook to a lot of peripherals. So the cost of the Versa Braille plus everything you had to hook it to, to get it to work , uh, probably totally cost about $10,000 somewhere in that neighborhood in the early 1980s. Now, if you adjusted that for inflation in 2024, that would be the equivalent of $38,000 for the first Refreshable braille device. And going back even further in 1975, the very first curse while reading machine, or our precursor to OCR, that was $30,000. And if you adjusted that for inflation today, that's going to be like $175,000 coming out the gate. And the first computer, everybody's heard this before, which was the, I think it's the eac , I think that's how they pronounced it. That was 1943, that would cost you $500,000. But if you adjusted that for inflation, you're looking at your first computer costing $12.3 million. But think about if people stopped and said, you know, I'm not going to create this technology because the price, I can't get the price point where I need it to be. We wouldn't have the things that we have today. You know, they kind of had to forge ahead. They had to get that device out there. They had to learn from what the people using the device were learning so that the next iteration could be better and better and better. And what we've seen historically is that over time, these prices go down for several different reasons because the technology gets better. That's a big one. It gets faster and, and because more people are buying , um, when it becomes more affordable. And we're counting on that. We are really hopefully counting on that with the Monarch. And we're also counting on getting some funding support that our laws promise will create equitable accommodations in school and work in public places. But, you know, I, I just want everybody to know that pricing is something that kind of happened after the fact with this development, because we really, when we started, had no clue what this could cost to do. Um, when we looked at where we were and where the technology is, now, we're looking at like a 40 braille cell refreshable braille device costing between $2,503,000. And an 80 cell Braille device today is costing more than double that, even though it's double the cells, it's more than double for an 80 cell Braille device, and, and they're close to $10,000. But remember, that's 80 cells. And to show both braille and tactile graphics on the Monarch, it takes 480 cells. So when we were doing the math in our head, we were like, oh, wow. The , the cost of this could be astronomical. But so, so the good news is if there's good news to this price, it's that it cost us far less than we ever imagined it was gonna cost. And, you know, lots of reasons for that. The , the new Braille cell technology by dot, there were a lot of price saving measures throughout the development , uh, of the device. And, you know , we just have incredible partnerships with people who really are committed to the common goal of getting the Monarch into the hands of as many people as possible. So, so I think, you know, we probably thought we would end up in the range of $30,000 or more. So, so to be at half, that is something that we're, we're very proud of, you know, but, but of course, all that being said , um, you know, at the end of the day, a lot of people don't have $18,000 in their pocket. Right? We, we get that. We understand that. So, so we are working on some ways to, to help with those costs and, and everything. And, you know, just, the only other thing I would say is that , um, the current system that we have is atrociously expensive. Now, a lot of people don't see that because there are a lot of different government programs funding it. They're all in different pots. Somehow we paste it all together, and it works to get kids what they need. But if you think about , um, what, what it would cost , what it cost a kid just to get braille and tactile graphics and math products and all of that in their hands, it can be just staggering. You know, you're probably looking at costs anywhere from 20 to $200,000 a year for all of those materials to be provided for a student. And that's okay. That's okay. We know, we know that whatever kids need to learn, they need to get, and the law protects that. So, so we're okay with that. But, but, you know, I think that the Monarch in the long run is gonna be less expensive. It , you know, it things like a student needs to buy things like a, a graphing calculator, a Perkins Brailer, a refreshable Braille device, a laptop , uh, textbooks, which can cost anywhere from 20 to 60,000 a book just based on what it is. Uh, volumes of tactile graphics, which are hundreds of dollars, you know, all of those kind of added onto the pile. And while the Monarch will not replace all of these things, it certainly has the capacity to support them and, and to make , uh, some of that learning come quicker and, and more available to the students. So, so again, I think , um, it , although the Monarch won't replace all the ways that we're doing things, the efficiencies, the efficiencies will happen over time. And, and so all of this may cost us something upfront , but on the back end , we're gonna see , uh, savings , um, over time, especially , um, as we try to adapt to this changing , um, learning revolution that we're having right now.
Sara Brown:And again, I feel like some people will hear that and freak out, but, you know, the technology, the , the things this device can do, and it's like that with anything, just like you said, you know, when something brand new hits the market, it is, it is a little bit more, but as it gets more developed as other, as other others come out, it does make the price go down.
Anne Lancaster:Yeah. You know, we really won't have true equity until something like a Monarch cost as much as a laptop costs for a sighted person. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And , you know, the way that we do that, particularly here in the United States, is often through federal subsidies, because again, this kind of equity is protected by law. Um, but the downside right now at this point in time is that there is no funding stream for Monarchs. There's really barely any funding stream for technology. Um, and if there is, it's, it's spotty somewhat, but, you know, I think that's where , um, advocacy comes in. You know, sometimes that's self-advocacy at your, at your school district level parents making sure that what the kids need is in their IEP. Uh , but it's also, I think for all of us, it's advocacy with the federal government to say, Hey, you know, this is, this is the equity that we are entitled to, and we claim that, you know, we claim that. And, and also doing some education with the folks who make these kinds of financial decisions and explaining, you know, this is why it's important to me. This is how I'm going to learn better. Or what we've heard some people say when they talk to Congress is , if I had had this when I was a student, I would have been better at math, would have been able to be a lawyer, would've been able to, you know, all fill in the blank. We've heard a lot of conversations like that. And that's, those are such important stories to be told. I think. And, you know, ator , you know, he's willing to talk with anyone who, who wants to go to Congress and, you know, talk to them about their story. We need as many stories as we can get. There's a lot of attention on a government official's time. And so the more people talking about it, the more it rises to the level of their interest. And, you know, we're doing everything we can here at APH. We are advocating for funds that would put a Monarch in the hands of every student and not pull away from those quota funds, which are tight as it is. So, you know, that's really what we wanna see. And we actually do have , uh, a federal allotment to be able to put them in the hands of 100 kids this fall for a pilot project, and we'll have more information. This is bring bringing somebody back to your podcast here, Sarah , you know, so , um, so this is, this is the cliffhanger. And, and so we're excited about that and that we'll be able to get a hundred devices out there this year. Uh, we're also applying for other grants to add to that number so that, you know, maybe we can have more than a hundred kids participating this, this time, you know, next year. But again, all the help we can have when you walk into a Congress person's office and they say, you know, I just got an email from a teacher of the visually impaired, and what they had to say about this was just incredible. That boosts our message so much. And, you know, it's, I think sometimes people are afraid of doing advocacy, as they call it, particularly with Congress. But these are the people who make the decisions about the laws that impact your lives. And these are the people who make decisions about the money that you're going to have to support the things that you deserve. And if they do not understand what is important to you, if they do not understand how this technology works, how are they going to make a good decision? So it really is on all of us to tell our stories to advocate for the things that we need and, and to make sure, and that is another way that we'll get more of these monarchs in the hands. Because believe me, you know, again, like I said, I get it. It's expensive. And what a PH wants more than anything is to see as many of these Monarch devices out there and being used in classrooms and on the job , and even just in your personal daily life. Uh, we want that more than anything. So that's why we are working hard to try to find other federal funding to educate Congress to find grants. Uh, but we cannot do it without everybody else. So if this is something people want, and if it's something that they feel like they need, then bring it on. We need your help. We need your help. So in , in many ways, if we wait for this to happen organically, it could take many, many, many years. I don't know if our kids can wait that long. It's, it's changing so fast out there. I don't know if they can wait. Um , but if we all push together, then maybe we can see quicker results, especially quicker results than what we've seen in the past.
Sara Brown:Now, let me ask you this. I know there's a, there's a way. What, is there a waitlist, a sign up list to, for people to purchase a Monarch? How can anybody out there interested that wants a Monarch, how can they do that?
Anne Lancaster:Okay, so , um, right now we're doing what we, we call a waitlist. And that is like, we want , we absolutely have no idea what the demand is gonna be. We've never had anything like The Monarch to sell. We've never had anything at this cost to sell. So we just have no idea what the demand is be. So we started the wait list last month and basically said, do you know, you know, are you interested in buying a Monarch? If so, how many? And you know, when, and we're following up with those folks, and we were absolutely overwhelmed with responses. And , um, you know , uh, requests for hundreds of monarchs at this point too, which is it , it's far more than we expected, and we're just really pleased. It means people are getting the word out. It means they're excited about it. And, and, and that's great. So, so we'll be able to start , uh, in a couple of weeks taking those purchase orders and , uh, those quota orders for that. Uh, but for our cash customers , uh, unfortunately they'll have to wait until September 1st. And by then , um, the good news is, I think even if , uh, everybody who's asking for one got one, we still have inventory. Um, it's, it's, but this, these folks will be served first on the wait list . So, so that's important. They'll get an opportunity to purchase , uh, early. And , um, we just wanna make sure that we've got it enough to go around. It's , um, it's a long turnaround on any Braille device right now , um, about a year. So we have to be thinking way ahead into the future about how many we need. So if you are interested, it gives us such good information. If you sign up for that wait list , and Sara, I know you're gonna give everybody the link for that. Um, you know, it lets us know. It helps us plan. And , uh, and it also gives us an opportunity to answer your questions prior to making the purchase, because we expect them, it is something brand new and , uh, you know, we wanna be there to support you.
Sara Brown:And before I let you go, is there anything else you'd like to share about the Monarch advocacy or anything related to this, this Monarch, this awesome product?
Anne Lancaster:Well, I think, you know, in many ways , uh, the technology in and of itself is revolutionary and brand new, but the most important thing about the Monarch Project is how everybody is working and will work together in the future to say we deserve better for our students and for ourselves and for teachers. And, and that that is a message that will transcend the Monarch and go into other technologies and other things that we need. And so, you know, the most revolutionary thing I would have to say is that we have just had such tremendous support. Our partnerships have been strong. They have been , um, excited and energized, and I've seen people working together in ways never before. But now, now is the time, you know, for anyone who's interested, it's time for everybody to get on the Monarch train, if you will, and , um, and say, this is what we need , uh, for the future. And to advocate for that. We're, we're making incredible things possible, but if we make that possible, it's, it's, it's the most incredible thing that we can do.
Sara Brown:I like that phrase, making incredible things happen. And that's, so this Monarch, and just hearing the stories, and thank you so much for coming on Change Makers and talking to me.
Anne Lancaster:That was a pleasure. And, you know, thanks for asking the hard questions, <laugh> . We're not afraid to answer the hard questions.
Sara Brown:Yes, yes, yes. Well, thank you so much. I've put a link in the show notes to the Monarch wait list . There's also a few links in there about the Monarch itself. Up next we're talking about the Monarch in the latest. On the development front, I have APH's head of Global Innovation, Greg Stilson and APH's Technical Innovations product Manager, Jason Martin here. Hello, Greg. Hello, Jason. And welcome to Change Makers .
Greg Stilson:Hey, thanks for having us.
Jason Martin:Thank you.
Sara Brown:If I can just get you to, to just, you know, let the listeners know who you are and what it is that you do at APH?
Greg Stilson:Sure. So I'm Greg Stilson . I lead the Global Technology Innovation team , uh, which really consists of a group of product managers, quality assurance experts, and , uh, and software engineers.
Jason Martin:And I'm Jason Martin. I am one of those project managers for Greg's team. But in a past life, I've also been a TVI and a certified Assistive Technology Instructional Specialist.
Sara Brown:Okay. So my next question is share. What is the latest with the Monarch?
Greg Stilson:The latest is we are , um, we've done a lot since I think we talked to you guys last <laugh> , we <laugh> Jay , Jason. Uh, really it orchestrated one of the larger field tests that we've done , uh, in APH history , um, which was, was , uh, an accomplishment in and of itself. Um, one of the obligations that we have to the federal government is that any product that we decide to, to put on the federal quota system , um, needs to be field tested , actually run through an official field test. And , um, Jason, you want to quickly summarize kind of what that consisted of.
Jason Martin:We had a ton of teachers really spread across the United States that had a Monarch for about six weeks, and went through the curriculum and testing with their student, and gave us journals and feedback and, and really they were, they were warriors. I mean, it was, it was a deep dive into the Monarch how to use it, and we made 'em do homework, and they did.
Greg Stilson:And it was, it was , uh, I'm not gonna say it was in bad shape, but it was in definite development shape, right? And we had so many teachers that came up with amazing workarounds and suit were super resilient, and it also gave us a ton of feedback in what we had to improve on. They, they have obligations back to a PH and really the field as a whole, where they will , um, provide sort of , uh, lesson plans, training curriculums , uh, teaching tools, tactile graphics, things like that, that really will help , um, the next Monarch , uh, owners. Or when we launch this product, when it gets into the, to the general public , um, these will be used as , uh, support and training tools that really come from the field, for the field. So we've done a lot, Sarah , we've , we've gone from field testing to teacher training. The software is , um, actually about to, we're about to push an update to the 170 plus devices that are out there now in the teacher training land. Um, and the, the , the software side of things is really coming together. So , um, we are really in that run up to the fall , uh, to get this product launched.
Sara Brown:Now, okay, as adults, you know, working on this, but when you think back to your time as a student yourself or a TVI, how do you feel the Monarch would've impacted you?
Greg Stilson:Um, I think I, I obviously, one of the things that I, as a blind adult, right? I, I read more braille today , um, than I probably ever have. And part of that's being a , a blind, a blind parent of two-sided kids, is I read a lot of , uh, board books and , uh, a lot of cat in a hat and a lot of , you know, a lot of these type of , um, kids' books, right? And now I've got a 7-year-old who's learning how to read. And so we're starting to get into like, early reader chapter books. And, you know, I , I will say like just having access to multi-line display, I, I've downloaded several of the books. My daughter wants to read off a bookshare , and we do a lot of trade off page reading and chapter reading where she'll read a page and I'll read a page, or she'll read a chapter and I'll read a chapter. And having access to those books from Bookshare in an instant fashion that I can download it to the Monarch, but then read it correctly. That's the biggest difference, is I had all this capability of downloading books before on a single line display, but I'm in tremendously slow on a single line display because on a single line display, you're not taught to read correctly. You're, you're using functional braille reading skills. And some people can fly on a single line display, don't get me wrong. But when you're reading on a multi-line display or reading on, you know, physical paper, you, you do read correctly and you do have the ability to track and, and skim and read just generally faster. So, you know, I'd start by saying, as a blind parent of two-sided kids, having access to instant books on multiple lines as if I was reading paper , um, has been a true game changer . And it actually makes me enjoy reading. I I , there , there , I haven't always enjoyed reading braille. I learned braille early on, but I was a low vision kid , uh, early in my, my vision loss journey. And , um, so I didn't, I didn't read very quickly. And as I transitioned into the technology world, right, most of my reading was on a single line braille display. So I didn't really improve my braille reading drastically because I wasn't reading correctly. And so today, being able to, to share this time with my, my kids and read correctly and, and efficiently, effectively , um, it , it's really made me enjoy reading braille a lot more. Uh , but as a kid, I can tell you just getting access to, I, I didn't have a ton of tactile graphics, right? Learn learning tactile graphics. I had great t vs . And they did the best they could with what they had. But you know, this is gonna change everything with the ability for kids to access the tactical graphics image library , uh, you know, instantly, right? You're talking over 2000 graphics that they can instantly access just from a device connected to wifi . Jason, what about you? What about a TVI , what's this gonna do for a TVI ?
Jason Martin:Well, I , I think, you know, it's this idea of conceptualization that, you know, when you're looking at tactile graphics or when you're looking at objects or when you're talking, you know, one of my favorite examples to show anyone is Batman <laugh>. When we're talking about the first thing I put on my Monarch was Batman and mm-Hmm <affirmative> . And I did all the superheroes and sent it up . So it , it's, it's showing something that might be in popular culture. And, and for me as a teacher, I'd love doing this to go, what? You guys have never seen the bat symbol? Oh, now it's time for us to check that out. Having those moments of, of just, it , it's really this incidental learning that you don't get with any other population other than ours that might go, wait, I've never actually checked out what Super Mario looks like, or, you know, it's, it's these things in conversations that you get with students and the Monarch just cuts that, that wait time, that development time, really, that's what I , I is phenomenal about it. And I think as a teacher, getting this instantaneously in a device that just works , um, is, is really something impressive.
Greg Stilson:Yeah, I was , uh, I'll never forget, I was , um, showing it to some kids at the National Braille Challenge, and it was a young , a younger kid, I dunno , first, second grade , uh, you know, the , whatever the youngest group is. And this kid was beyond interested in construction vehicles. Um, and I actually had the same moment with my sighted son , uh, who is three and just loves construction vehicles, but with this blind student, I showed, I showed him, he said, do you have any, you know, do you have any pictures of the dump trucks or do you have any pictures of bulldozers or any of that kind of stuff? And I was like, heck yeah. So I jump on tactile graphic image library, and I just type in construction and it pops up with bulldozers and cement mixers and, and forklifts and, you know , a bunch of these things, right? And like you said, Jason, you're meeting the kid where their interest is and they're able to see relevant things that, that they're excited about while still teaching the art of, of understanding tactical graphics, right? So you're not just looking at these triangle shapes or square shapes or things like that. You're actually showing them things that, that they're interested in. And then the exciting piece is that because we can render tactile graphics and braille on the same surface, we can show braille labels that equate to different parts of these tactile graphics. So , um, that, that instant access to stuff they're interested in, I , I think also will help them want to learn more. Our hope is that this becomes another platform that people can , uh, create experiences on. And that's, that's one thing Jason's really been working on. So I'll turn it over to you, Jason. Well,
Jason Martin:That's, you mentioned this earlier, Greg, in , in the way that we're doing things that have not been done in braille, and these applications are perfect example of this. So there's three that I'd like to highlight, and the first being the startup application. So when Monarch starts, when every Monarch system goes through the startup process, it's, it's a new interaction for every user. Uh , multi-line displays aren't common. So we wanted a creative way of guiding the user through that experience. And traditionally, if you had a tutorial on a digital braille display, it would be one line of just braille. And so really we changed this game up , or the idea of making an application. I say we , uh, the programmer, Rob Meredith here at APH has just done this phenomenal job of including not only braille, but tactile graphics and braille at the same screen. Tactile graphics we can tap on and interact with that are teaching concepts like point and click, and just really going through the navigational features of the Monarch in such a, it's, it's just a cool experience because I, as a teacher and as a vision professional for many years, I've never seen anything like it. And so that's, that's just the startup and the introduction to, to the Monarch , uh, the SST application we're working on , uh, that I, I think is huge with TBIs is , uh, the, the Monarch drawing application. And that's , uh, worked on by our programmer Mark Claire . And what this idea is, is that we would have an iOS phone or iOS tablet like iPad that a teacher could just on the fly draw a tactile graphic and instantly it appears on the display of the Monarch. And these graphics can be as simple as just an XY plane and maybe a shape, or you can be the nerd like me and draw Star Wars on it and show, you know, as much as your mind , uh, will let you go to , uh, for orientation and mobility routes like planning routes. Uh, o and m teachers have come to me and said, oh my goodness, this is going to save us so much time. Just being able to quickly show a student and plan out a route. And if your buddy's in class and can see something on the board that you might need help with, you don't need a teacher, Hey, here's my app, let's draw it and show me what you're talking about. And , and you think ,
Greg Stilson:And , and you think about it, like TVI's. I always say TVI's carry their Mary Poppins bags with them, right? Because they, they've got their wiki sticks and their rubber bands and everything in the million years that they would need to create on the fly tactile graphics. And I'm not saying this is gonna replace everything, but this is going to give the TVI another tool to sort of foster that impromptu learning that that happens every single day that our blind students just don't participate in or participate later in. And that's, I think, one of the biggest challenges that, that our kids face is that they don't participate in learning at the times that their cited peers are participating in learning. They're forced to do it later or work harder to do it. And this is one of those tools that, that they're gonna be able to, the TVI can can draw whatever you want them to and, and have that immediately show up tactilely. And it's really exciting. And we're not just stopping at , at drawing, are we, Jason? We're, I mean, we have a long-term goal of, of allowing them to put labels on this thing as well.
Jason Martin:Yes. Labels and making, coming back to it, making your own artwork, exporting that artwork. I think it , it , it really is a , a long-term goal for this. And I'll tell you, when I was in Texas, this is, this is one of those moments with a TVI that to make you go, this is, this is why we're doing it. And this is what's awesome to see is he was working with 3D printing with his students, and he struggled to be able to show them what the 3D print would kind of look like before it was printed. And instantly, when he was in the Monarch training, he connected this and said, I can, I can show them renderings of my STL files on the Monarch. And even this monarch draw makes that even quicker than doing a PDF and copying it . He can just quickly draw and show. But that's, that's not all the applications. And, and I don't have favorites. It's like children, you don't , you don't have favorites. But I think the , the, the, the chess club guy that's in me that when I played chess as a student at a blind school, this always sticks with me. And that's Monarch Chess that's been developed by John Carr , and it's bringing the world of chess , uh, to the Monarch Display. It's a fully playable, tactile version of chess, and it has a full tutorial to teach not only newcomers to chess, but kind of the old pros of how we're doing it on this device. And I, I think it's probably been the game we've all most played, Greg. I think it's, it is been the app that we've all quality tested over and over and over and over again.
Greg Stilson:I'm really bad at chess <laugh>,
Jason Martin:We're all really bad at chess , evidently that's what we blur .
Greg Stilson:But you know, we, we looked at this, this app and, and the, you know, people are like, well, what's, where's the educational value of that? Right? Well, one of the, number one, it teaches you spatial concepts, right? Being able to understand a grid, being able to understand a table columns and rows. But, but there's, you know, in the same fashion that Microsoft used the game of Solitaire to teach people how to drag and drop and point and click , um, one of the features of the Monarch is being able to do this gesture called point and click where you touch, because the Monarch's , um, braille surface is also a touchscreen. Being able to touch different elements of the, the surface and then point and click with the action button , um, it , it's a concept that that is not natural for somebody who is born blind. Uh , you know, blind students and blind kids aren't, aren't taught often how to point. And so Monarch Chess uses point and click to move those pieces, right? So we represent pieces in the chess game as braille characters , um, and you can feel the squares where they're gonna move, but what you do is point and click on these individual pieces and you see , uh, sort of tactile textures highlighting where you can move those pieces and you have to point and click where you wanna move it. And what's really cool is that after a student plays a game of chess, they are pretty proficient in pointing and clicking, which is really the ultimate goal of this, of this app, along with being fun and being able to <laugh> to interact with chess.
Jason Martin:And you , you know, my hope, Greg, is that we're gonna have, and and I've said this many times, that we're gonna have a Queen's Gambit, that when the popular show came out on Netflix, you had just a, a swath of, of young, young women blocking the chess and pursuing chess. And I really do, secretly, I hope that this this happens with blind students all around the nation, is that we start getting more active blind chess players.
Greg Stilson:Yep . And ultimately, you know, being able to, to interface with the online chess world of being able to take this online and compete with, with other chess players, you know, that's, that's something that, that I know you and I both hope , uh, can happen as well . So a lot of possibilities , um, and those are just the beginning. We've got so many ideas popping up and coming in , um, and the reality is we're not gonna think of all these ideas and that's why we built the SDK, the software development kits, is because there's gonna be brilliant people with brilliant ideas out there that want to develop experiences for this platform. And , and that's really where the software development kit is gonna come into play.
Sara Brown:This is amazing. Before I let you all go, is there anything else you all would like to share about The Monarch or just anything in general? Is there anything else you wanna leave with our listeners with?
Greg Stilson:Uh, just to mention that if you haven't seen it , if you haven't seen the Monarch , uh, before, we will be at the , uh, summer , um, consumer Blindness Conventions, the National Federation of the Blind, the American Council of the Blind Conventions. We will have monarchs , uh, at the booth. So if you have not gotten your hands on the device , um, definitely come by our booth and you'll be able to, to experience it, maybe play a little bit of chess or something like that. But , uh,
Jason Martin:Play some pictionary with me. <laugh>.
Greg Stilson:Yeah, there you go. Um, and , uh, and, and yeah, so those will be two, two opportunities where you'll be able to , um, to get your hands on it and Jason will quiz you on what is this graphic?
Jason Martin:I sure will. Which superhero is this? That's right,
Sara Brown:<laugh>. Love it. Alright , well, Greg and Jason, thank you both so much for joining me today on Changemakers.
Greg Stilson:Hey, thanks for having us.
Sara Brown:And again, I've put links in the show notes about the Monarch there you can learn all about the teacher training. Now we're talking about the e brail, the new file format that will be used on the Monarch. I have APH's Technology Product Manager, Educational Product Innovation, Willow Free here to tell us more. Hello Willow and welcome to Change Makers.
Willow Free:Thanks Sara. Thanks for having me.
Sara Brown:So my first question that I always like to ask is, do you just mind to introduce yourself and share what it is that you do at APH?
Willow Free:Sure. Uh , my name's Willow Free. I've been at APH for 12 years. I started as a braille transcriber and as a part of that I helped test braille blaster. And it was through testing Braille Blaster that I got my next job, which was as a QA where I did testing and I was involved with our Braille displays. I was involved with our software and I got to learn a whole lot about the technology products that we make. And from there I was Braille technology product manager, focused on Braille, and now I'm Global Innovations Product Manager, which allows me, I still focus on Braille, but it allows me to do other projects that aren't braille related .
Sara Brown:Now with the Monarch, we've got this exciting ebraille. So can you share what ebraille is or give us an overview?
Willow Free:Yeah, I can. Um, so eBraille started as it was really a part of the Monarch, and it's meant to be a file type that can work with any device. That's the whole point. But it was when we were developing the Monarch that we realized we had a problem that was gonna happen and we needed to get ahead of it. And that problem was the Monarch is 32 cells by 10 lines. The traditional braille page is 40 cells by 25 lines. Now braille with the current file type, the size of the page is hard coded. If you change from 40 to 32, you have to redo that entire file. And it's not gonna be easy. Like it's gonna be a lot of layout changes, it's gonna take some time. And this problem was only gonna get worse with time. Like the Monarch is gonna be the first and the biggest multiline display , uh, coming out , uh, but there's gonna be others eventually and they're gonna have different sizes. And with Multiline, you really need to preserve that formatting. You know, we always had this problem with the 40 cell page and the single line displays, but with the single line displays, the formatting, it's not that it doesn't matter, it's just, it's not as evident. It's not as, it's not as , uh, ugly <laugh> , uh, and it doesn't mess up the reading experience to the same extent it does in a multi-line environment. And so what was gonna happen is if we did nothing and we just stayed with the current braille file type, we were gonna end up with braille files being made for these specific cell configurations. So you'd have files made for 40, you'd have files made for 32 files made for 38 , um, you know, files made for 25, whatever it is. And that's gonna make Braille more expensive, more time consuming. It's gonna make it harder to find the files that you need. Like we have the Louis database where we have all these braille files that people can purchase. But if we had to like segregate that, like these are, these are for this size and these are for that size. Imagine finding the book that you wanted, but it's not available in the size that you need. And now you basically have to order a new book <laugh> or the size that you need. And so we can't have that. Braille is already , uh, expensive to produce. There's already not enough braille. So the whole idea, the whole starting point was this, can we make a braille file type that has , uh, reflow ability so that it can fit any page size? And so that was, that was really the beginning of it. And it's not the only feature. So you get a lot. So the main thing that happens is to have this reflow ability , you have to use markup and markup is a thing, you know, not a lot of people know about it, but a good way to think about markup is it's the styles. So it's the headings, the lists, the paragraphs, and so you have to say, this is a heading, this is a paragraph. And once you do that, you get this reflow ability , but you also get navigation. Um, you also get adaptable changes. Like you can change, like in the United States, we format our Heading Ones centered, and in other countries they don't. Well, since you've marked it as a heading one, you can have it appear centered when it's viewed by someone in the United States, and you can have it appear according to their rules when it's a , when it's viewed in another country. So just by making this one change for the reflow ability , we're getting navigation, we're getting the ability to make changes to the same braille documents. It's gonna be easier to share braille across , uh, borders. You know , we have UEB, but England, the United States, and Canada, Australia, New Zealand, we all have different rules for formatting and formatting's. Very important. And so now we can share files, we can retain our same local formatting and use this shared braille code We have to the, to the greatest extent.
Sara Brown:Now APH partnered with the DAISY Consortium to, to help create this eBraille. How is that partnership going? How's that, what's the latest with that so far?
Willow Free:Yeah, thanks. Um, DAISY has been wonderful to work with. They are brilliant and they know so much about this world. I, I'm a braille person, you know, I came to this, I know Braille and I love braille, and it's been my career. Uh, I've never made a file type before. Uh , and they have, they've made file types. They understand not just the technical aspects of making a new file type, but the political aspects of making a new file type. I never would've imagined, like how, how , uh, fearful you have to be when you make a file type. You have to be careful that you don't offend, you know, other organizations and bodies because if you do the wrong thing and you encroach on their territory, you can get, you can cause yourself a lot of trouble. And DAISY has been just wonderful at knowing how to navigate all that. And of course they know the technical side of it too. And they've been really great at helping us. You know, this is an international effort. We've got over 40 organizations working with us. That's a big part of that is DAISY, DAISY helped pull all those people together.
Sara Brown:And for my final question, is there anything else you'd like to share about this ebraile?
Willow Free:Um, I just, you know, I wanna share , uh, the, you know, kind of gratitude that I feel , um, there are so many people involved in this. There are so many people that believe in this and that are working together to make this happen. And I'm, I'm continuously humbled , uh, by the passion and the commitment of these folks. Um , making a braille file type is not easy, and a lot of these folks are volunteering, and it's just really wonderful to have so many passionate, intelligent, wonderful people involved in this effort.
Sara Brown:All right , Willow, thank you so much for coming on Change Makers and talking to me today about e brail .
Willow Free:Yeah, thank you. This has been great.
Sara Brown:Thank you very much for listening to this episode of Change Makers. I've put links in the Show Notes for the Monarch, the wait list , ebraille, and more. Also, if you have follow-up questions or a podcast idea, send an email to changemakers @aph.org . As always, be sure to look for ways you can be a changemaker this week.