Jason Hook (ex Five Finger Death Punch) Discusses New Band Flat Black

Jason Hook is a Canadian guitarist, best known as the former lead guitarist of American heavy metal band Five Finger Death Punch.  His new project, Flat Black has an album out July 19th titled "Dark Side of the Brain."  The band will also be hitting the road this summer with Godsmack. We discuss the new music, success in the music business, Jason's path and more!

00:00 - Intro
00:13 - Finding Singer for Flat Black
03:25 - Getting a Shot & Social Media
06:22 - All Or Nothing Mentality
08:20 - Home Studio & Recording
12:10 - Live Drums Vs. Programmed
14:55 - Bulletboys & Vince Neil
18:15 - Beau Hill & No Love Lost
20:00 - New Flat Black Record
22:15 - New Song "It's Ok to Be Angry"
24:30 - Perfection & Band Mentality
27:40 - Songwriting
29:15 - The Look of Rock Bands
31:30 - Pre-Order Vinyl
33:42 - Opening for Godsmack
36:15 - High Level of Success
39:15 - Goals with Flat Black
41:40 - New Song "Bit of Lightning" & Emotion
45:55 - New Song with Corey Taylor
48:55 - Being Easy to Work With
53:01 - Music with Different Emotions
54:20 - Self-Help Books
55:30 - Promo
56:20 - Outro

Flat Black website:
https://flatblackmusic.com/

Chuck Shute link tree:
https://linktr.ee/chuck_shute

Transcript

Chuck Shute: 0:13

But no, I love the new record flat block. I had Rex on the show. I wasn't, you know, I think he had done like, I couldn't find any interview. So I was like, I don't know what I'm going to talk to him about. He was awesome. He was amazing, amazing singer as well, obviously, so young and energetic, and explain how you found it gives he was in, I think he was like the rhythm guitar or keyboard is falling in reverse, and you pulled them out and said, You're gonna be in the lead singer. Well,

Jason Hook: 0:39

he was playing bass, bass and sorry. And, you know, I looked at, I looked at 100 guys from all over the place and finding the singers, you know, it's sort of the make or break element to every new band, I think if you don't get that component, right, it can, you know, it can be fail, you know. And so I was really picky. And I looked at a million guys, and somebody, you know, I put the word out there to everybody that I know, in the industry, this is what I'm trying to do. This is what I'm looking for blah, blah, blah. So over time, you get people calling up, I used to looking for a drummer, they're still looking for a singer. And I was to be honest, I was quite discouraged. Because I the singer, I couldn't find I couldn't find that voice, you know. And lucky for me, a mutual friend of ours called and said, Are you still looking for a singer? I think I have your singer. And now at that point, I was like, whatever, throw him in the pile. I've heard this a million times. But you just never know when the right guy is going to show up. So he came over and I was like, this is the guy.

Chuck Shute: 1:48

So it wasn't like a thing where you're like, Okay, I need a guy with a name that's been established that can build you just wanted the best singer regardless didn't care how old he was, how young he was, where he came from.

Jason Hook: 2:00

Yeah, it's it's about music first. Right. And I had in my mind that it would be a lot more fun, and probably a little easier if there was if I found guys that, you know, would appreciate the break. There's a there's a young energy and a willingness and a hunger that comes from guys that are anxious to break through for the first time. You know, if you there is a, you know, if I had tried to put it all start band together, then, you know, we've seen that. That's not that interesting. Plus, there's always the risk that whoever you collect from big bands might go back to their big bands, you know? So, you know, I wanted I was looking for unknowns. Sure. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 2:49

I like the way you compare it. I think I heard you talking about it before, where you compare it to Alice Cooper, where he's he's getting these younger musicians, and they make him so I mean, he sounds amazing, too. But, you know, he's got this really young energetic band, and then it's like, wow, the band sounds so tight, because he got these young guys. It's smart.

Jason Hook: 3:08

He's a smart man. And, you know, like I said, you know, I just thought, at one point, I was that guy, where I thought I had all the right ingredients, but no one would give me a shot. And so I you know, always remember that they're out there. You just kind of look, you know,

Chuck Shute: 3:27

wait a minute, nobody gave you a shot. I mean, you were maybe not the shot you wanted. But I mean, you had working with big names like Hilary Duff. Mandy Manuel, yes, I'm yawning. I'm

Jason Hook: 3:37

going back to you know, when I first landed in Los Angeles, I was ringing everyone's Bell and going, what about me? What about me? And they were like, Yeah, you know, it's, there was a point in time where, you know, I was on the lower level, and then somebody plucked me up, and now I'm in the middle level, and then somebody plucks you up and you get into the upper level. And so I just remember clearly that the all those guys are out there, you just got to find them, you know? So

Chuck Shute: 4:04

what's your advice to getting plucked up like, or like, maybe not even with music, but just like, let's say like somebody with a podcast that was trying to get plucked up and get bigger guests or whatever, like, how what's your advice to get plucked up?

Jason Hook: 4:18

Well, I think in this day and age, we're very fortunate because we have these social media platforms, right and so I would just say self promote, but don't sort of self promote the important stuff like if you're a really really good player, then play play a lot on on your socials and it doesn't you know, I see it happening. I see it happening all the time. Like, you know, Nita Strauss got plucked up. This girl Kiki Longo got plucked for smashing pumpkins. She's sort of an influencer. metal guitar player.

Chuck Shute: 4:53

Yeah, wasn't she and I feel like I had the girl from her band on my show that she was in the digital war. are right,

Jason Hook: 5:01

yes, exactly. So you know it. But these people are working very hard to develop a presence on the socials. Right. So my advice at this in this day and age would be just to pound the socials with your gift.

Chuck Shute: 5:16

Do you think there's a difference, though, because I hear that too, that people say, oh, there's these people on Tik Tok that can blow me away. But then they get into a band and they don't know what they're doing. They don't know how to play live and all that. So is it maybe a part of a piece of it is just kind of teaching them the ways of actually being in a band? Because it is very different.

Jason Hook: 5:35

yet? No, I agree. 100%. I think that I think that if you have talent, you should probably be practicing every department on the way up, you know, because you don't want to get in a situation where you're amazing on Instagram, but you suck live. So I would recommend get into some kind of performing situation, as soon as you can, no matter how small it may be, or how intimidating it may feel. If that's a huge component, that's what sort of were people separate, you know, the men from the boys, like, okay, because Instagram, am I really hearing the right thing? am I really saying the right thing, but if you deliver live, you just can't. We can't take that away. You know, that's a

Chuck Shute: 6:20

yeah, there's so many pieces to it, I just love your story, how you just, you got in your car, and, you know, he drove down to LA. And then your idea was so smart, because you hear all these stories of people who are waiters, or bartenders, and then they try to play music at night, and you just said, I'm going to get paid for playing music doesn't matter what I'm doing. That's what I want to make money for. Yeah,

Jason Hook: 6:40

I mean, I believe that, you know, my whole mentality has always been all or nothing, that's my email being off. I'm an all or nothing kind of guy, almost to a fault. So when I have my sights set on something, that's all I think about, and that's all I grind on 24/7. And, you know, there really is no substitution for hard work and dedication. And I think that if you, you know, if you take that kind of approach, eventually you'll have a breakthrough. I'm not a part timer. I'm obsessed, you know, so same thing with flat black, as soon as I, you know, in 2020, I had no clue what was going to happen, or what it was going to look like, or what it was going to be called or anything. But I just, I said, I have to do this, you know, I have to rebuild. And I think a lot of people make the mistake of rushing back out there with something just because they feel like they're gonna lose their presence or momentum. But But I think good product takes a while to mold, you know?

Chuck Shute: 7:44

Yeah, no, I remember because I remember right? When you when you don't know if you'd actually start it, you kind of I but I messaged you like, Well, years ago, and I said, Hey, will you do my podcast? And you said, Yeah, but let me wait until I get this project ready. And yeah, it's been a few years in the making? Well, I'm

Jason Hook: 8:01

actually I'm glad that you brought that up, because I wanted to do it, and knew I was going to do it. But I thought let's time it. So that just something to talk about, you know, yeah. Because, you know, at that, back then all I would have been able to talk about was Pro Tools, which is not the best, you know, engagement subject, but you

Chuck Shute: 8:22

love that kind of stuff. Like you're kind of like a rat studio rat. Yeah, gear and all that, too.

Jason Hook: 8:28

Yeah. to a fault. I mean, I have. Yes, it's, I don't know why but I'm obsessed with that stuff. I think it's really fun. It's a passion of mine. I I have a fully functional pro studio in my house. And it was like one of the only things I sort of splurged on to treat myself, because it's a tool, you see, like there's needs wants and tools. So I would take the wants and sort of throw them out the garbage. Like, you know, I want a Ferrari. Do I need a Ferrari? No. Is that going to help me in any way? No, it's a waste. So off the table needs are. And I got to have a place to live. I gotta eat. I gotta have a cell phone. That's nice. But then tools almost priority because tools. Can I could build stuff with tools.

Chuck Shute: 9:13

Yeah, that's awesome. So yeah, and you've recorded this album at your home studio, but also hideout studios in Vegas.

Jason Hook: 9:19

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm not upstairs at the moment. But the whole second floor of my home is music world. And, you know, there's a whole studio up there and it's, it's quite, you know, it's pretty impressive when you go Holy shit, this guy put this in his house. So, but I wanted that so that I could work without somebody saying, you know, you got to be out of here by eight or, you know, somebody's coming in tomorrow. So we have to push you to Monday. I don't want you know, that's every musician sort of fantasies to have, you know, a function fully pro functioning work environment where they can just work at their leisure

Chuck Shute: 10:00

So are you in Vegas? Or where do you live? I'm in Vegas. Yeah. Okay, so So then yeah. So So why was some of it done at the other studio? Then just because I? Well, good

Jason Hook: 10:09

question. Well, first of all the high notes, an amazing facility. And, you know, I've done a lot of work out of the hideout. And we went to, like, we did live drums on this record, which I think is sort of out of fashion, but it was something I insisted on, I wanted to have real human beings playing. So when, when it comes to capturing live drums, you need a pro facility for that, you know, with with tons of expensive outboard gear. And, you know, having worked out of the lineup before I just knew that that's where we're gonna get drums, I did a lot of the vocals there too, because you know, they have a $10,000 microphone and all the fancy outboard gear and, and also to good, isolated vocal rooms, you know, so I just thought, you know, every I'm a quality stuff. So I just want everything to be the best it can be. But I'm used to doing a lot of the guitar stuff here at my house, because I'm set up for that. So that's kind of where it went back and forth. All the writing and demoing and trying and guitar work itself has done here, the drums vocals at the hideout.

Chuck Shute: 11:18

Okay, that's amazing. So you must have a better ear than me. Because there's so much it's hard for me to hear the differences in production. People say like, especially today, they'll say are recorded this in my basement. I'm like, This sounds better than stuff recorded in the 80s with the cost millions of dollars to record. Well,

Jason Hook: 11:36

yes, you're right. And the real net net of that is if you don't have a good course, and none of this shit matters. You know, if you have a shitty song, it doesn't matter how much gear you use, or what kind of fancy stuff you used. So you're right. And but I'm always, you know, I always want to try to achieve the best and then work backwards, you know, and capturing live drums is Bentsen art form in itself.

Chuck Shute: 12:08

Yeah, so you say that live drums are out of fashion. You mean like just in general with like, more like pop songs. But I don't think I hope that metal bands or drums

Jason Hook: 12:17

all the time. And matter of fact, I would say probably 8080 to 90%. You know?

Chuck Shute: 12:24

brokest? Is Progress Program really?

Jason Hook: 12:27

Well, I can't I'm generalizing. I can't say for sure. It's not like I have the you know, some overview of everyone's techniques or whatever. But I think that you can get very realistic drum practice now with software. So it's cheaper, it's faster. It's you can edit and change your mind down the road. It's just MIDI notes. But you know, and I'm generalizing. But, you know, coming from a bit of an old school background, I like Panthera and Van Halen and and I just like, I wanted to have a human being playing all that stuff, you know, and my drummers motherfucker, so to not record it would be a travesty.

Chuck Shute: 13:09

Yeah. Rob Pierce. I don't know where you find this guy. But like, especially on the song. Justice will be done. droning is so fast on that one. I was like, Oh, this is like amazing. Like, I think that's an underrated skill is being a metal drummer, because I don't know how those guys go so fast. It's insane to me. Well,

Jason Hook: 13:27

yeah, I mean, look, the the genre really features vocals and drums and guitar. And so I wanted to find somebody that had like an extra special skill set. And it took a while to find that to find Rob. And, you know, it's like, once you, I played with all these, like, when I'm looking for a drummer, I would go and take my guitar, my amp, and I would play with these guys, anyone I was trying to look at, I would go play with them. Because you know, instantly right on the spot if there's a connection, or if they can keep up or what their meters like and all that stuff are their choices. So when I played with him, I knew right away this guy, there's you're not going to find a better drummer than this guy.

Chuck Shute: 14:08

Yeah, and you look at some of those drummers, and you're just like they Wow, you like you're like would you just to watch down? I just have to watch drummers and go wow, how does he How does he do that?

Jason Hook: 14:18

Yeah, well, like I've been playing in bands since I was a teenager. So I've had a wide variety of exposure to certain different levels of musicians, right? I mean, you know, I was I wanted to break loose here. But he's in this other band, corn or whatever. You know, and, you know, raise a friend and he's phenomenal. But if most in most cases the the really good guys are already snatched. So you got to find somebody who's not snatch which, which makes the task even more daunting, you know,

Chuck Shute: 14:52

how did that work? Like? Because then you didn't have a path until you kind of had your big break like you were in these other bands. You Were in the scene. Like when you're in bullet boys and stuff, like when you look at that gig, are you just going? Do you feel like maybe you're taking the wrong gig like, Oh, this is this could set me back? Or do you think this is getting me some exposure, which will hopefully lead to what I want to do?

Jason Hook: 15:14

Well, I really like playing that band. I

Chuck Shute: 15:19

love both boys. Yeah, I think it's cool. And I'm sure you don't get asked about that a lot. So,

Jason Hook: 15:23

no, but you know, I'm never going to be the guy that looks back and at the things I've done and said, Oh, man, what was I thinking? I must have been out of my mind. Boy, I wish I had never done that. No, no, everything happened for a reason. And there's and I still keep in touch with Mark. We're still buddies. And we, you know, you learn something, everything you do. It's not about I just go into it, like, what am I supposed to learn from this? What what's the takeaway? What am I extracting from this experience? And, and, and it was really fun music to play. And again, it had one guitar player. So I got to be the only guitar player, which is actually a format that I'm more familiar with. And then two guitarists, you know? And I love that the music was really good. I mean, it's very different for that period of music. They were trying to stand apart, which I always had a great respect for, you know? Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 16:21

Well, then what did you learn, I thought was so interesting, because I didn't even know that you played with Vince Neil. And then you actually, like so fast, and you've recorded kind of night, not an album with him, but you were working on music that you were going to pitch to him, but then it didn't work out. So then you made that your solo project. But what did you learn working with him? Because I mean, this guy is the guy who's done everything. I mean, been in the biggest rock band, he must have learned some tricks of the trade.

Jason Hook: 16:46

Well, what I learned from being in Vince's band is that I need to quit drinking.

Chuck Shute: 16:55

Oh, shut up.

Jason Hook: 16:56

It was hard to keep up. But I and I have said before that playing with Vince was probably the most fun I've ever had in any band. And that still holds true. Motley Crue music is just 100% thrill ride. And those fans love that stuff. It's built for the stage, it's built for performing. It's I was just really a really fun catalogue to play. And, and I got along with Vince perfectly. And it was just a really fun experience. And of all the gigs of that type of gig. That was a big one for me. You know, I mean, I did get calls from other bands of that genre that were older, and I just said, Well, I already have sort of like the pinnacle gig, you know, I'm good. You know, really,

Chuck Shute: 17:49

you got some other bands of that era. So you probably can't say that, who was?

Jason Hook: 17:54

I don't want to say, but just imagine the handful of all the bands circulating that would be in that genre at that time? Sure.

Chuck Shute: 18:02

So you're building that's when you kind of started to build a buzz of your name. I mean, obviously, the bigger pop stars but that's like not really that what you were looking you're looking for more rock metal bands at the time. Well, and

Jason Hook: 18:15

also to there's there's sort of like the old school and the new school and I was very particular about not getting too heavily invested in the older school. Metal, you know, I sort of wanted to keep my, my brand, clean, and see if I could get my way into what was happening currently. Okay. And that's no disrespect to anybody, except for I want to make records. Ryan, and have a shot at being a recording artist. And a lot of those bands. The legacy bands from that time period are more of a touring situation, you know, sure.

Chuck Shute: 18:55

But didn't you record an album with a legendary producer Beau Hill, but no love loss notice called man

Jason Hook: 19:02

you do your homework before? Yeah, impressive. Yeah, no, I did. That was my very first experience doing something pro like that I was my band way back in the 90s, my band got signed to Elektra. And we from Canada, and then we went to Los Angeles for four months and recorded the record with Beau Hill. And then soon after that the band got dropped at that point of the early 90s Everything was switching over to grunge and I think the label just thought you know instead of investing a ton into this type of thing let's let's follow the trend you know? Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 19:43

and then you realize that someone you later released under the monkey head

Jason Hook: 19:47

You're a beast. Yes, sir. That's cool. It's out there somewhere.

Chuck Shute: 19:52

Let's go you got all this music. So yeah, back to the new stuff though. The flat boy, I love this new record and I love that you made a record not just like, Okay, we're gonna put out two singles. You made the entire record. I mean, some of the singles already out, but is it just like, are you making a music video for every song to?

Jason Hook: 20:10

I probably will. I mean, it's it's interesting because we haven't got two singles yet, Chuck. They're like everything has been released or just the album tracks. So

Chuck Shute: 20:21

what is the difference though? Because I mean, I feel like the the singles just become a single, whatever the most popular song is on Spotify, right? Pretty

Jason Hook: 20:28

much. But there's a reason why there's a most popular song on a record. Why? What makes it the most popular?

Chuck Shute: 20:35

And most downloads are most plays? Well, that

Jason Hook: 20:39

the answer really is because the emotion that the song transmits, hits a wider audience and a bigger audience. So I've studied this for years. But what like when I had the meeting with fearless, they were like, the first three songs that were on my list when we're shopping the band around they're like those three are fucking smashes now, I'd stop me saying that. That's what they said. So let's put them aside. And then we'll work those for commercial radio. And then to get some awareness built, we'll spend you know, eight to 10 months just releasing the album tracks to get people to to become familiar with flat black Wally,

Chuck Shute: 21:22

so yeah, the lack of respect. That's not because that sounds fucking awesome. I love that song.

Jason Hook: 21:27

Well, when I say single, I'm just mainly talking about what the organization identifies as the potential big songs, okay. But when I made this record, there was 30 or 40 songs, I chopped it down to 14. So in my mind, I picked the best songs, whether they were brutal, or melodic, or whatever, I picked the songs that to me to my instinct represented the best songs, which means we'll probably get it right away.

Chuck Shute: 22:01

So the ones that the label thinks are the bigger ones, you haven't released those ones yet. Not at all. Okay, so I'm trying to remember is, it's okay to be angry. Is that one out yet or not? No, no, because that's a cool, can we talk about that a little, I don't want you to have whatever you want. Okay, yeah, cuz there's a soundbite thing at the beginning, you're talking about anger and, you know, lied and manipulated to and what is this from a movie or?

Jason Hook: 22:25

Well, the funny thing is, that's actually from a self help book I was reading at the time.

Chuck Shute: 22:33

That's what I found, but I sent him like, it was I couldn't tell if you like, were like spoofing it or so it's

Jason Hook: 22:38

really, it's real. And it's from a self help book that I was reading and there was a chapter that was like, it's okay to be angry, and then it walks you through that anger is really just a heightened energy. And that if you can harness it and redirect it, then you can avoid all of the disaster that comes from lashing out you know, he pointed into a positive place which is where it wastes explains so you can change your mind you can reverse direction and all that fucking shit. But I thought it was so funny. I thought so fine. Like I'm putting this in a song. Do you have to

Chuck Shute: 23:15

get like the rights or something? This guy No has his bid. This isn't a metal song. Our next question I'm just fascinated that you're listening to self help books because I love that shit. I love like Goggins and those guys like that pumped me up. Do you listen to a lot of that kind of stuff? Oh,

Jason Hook: 23:32

yeah. Yeah, we're working progress. Chuck. I mean, there's no you know, humans aren't perfect never going to be never worth and you know, I'm always trying to sharpen the razor you know, I'm just the same as everyone else. I got my shit and I'm I'm curious by nature. I like to learn I take lessons. I have tutors right now. You know?

Chuck Shute: 23:55

Yeah. Where are you taking guitar lessons from the guy from Racer X not Paul Gilbert the other one Bruce. Bruce mutilate EULA I never can pronounce that right. Me either. Hope I'm still taking guitar lessons from him or someone else now. Not

Jason Hook: 24:08

right now. Right now I'm heavily into the Adobe Suite I'm learning how to cut video and Photoshop and Illustrator because I have to mark it the flat black thing so you know I'm sort of I liked that visual component and instead of sitting around trying to find the right people to do it for me, I'm just kind of like I roll up my sleeves and figure it out myself you know, so like the album cover I did that you know in Photoshop the whole album art packaging I did myself not because I wanted to I didn't is because everything that was coming down the pipeline to me was substandard. And I think it's interesting

Chuck Shute: 24:49

Yeah, cuz I deal with that two of the podcasts like I really like to kind of outsource some of the editing and stuff that I the boring stuff, but then I feel like no, I need to do it, how I need to learn how to do this and do it better. Right?

Jason Hook: 24:59

You Well, because you have a vision, yes, you have a vision and like, I wouldn't have caught it there, you cut him off or let him finish the sentence or it's just it drives me nuts like I'm tortured by lack of perfection, you know? And, and I just, I've watched too many documentaries, and I've listened to too many records. And I've studied and studied and studied. So if somebody's not a Gretzky, then I'm like, fuck it, I'll just, I'll figure it out. And I'll do it myself. And I drive people nuts. But I get results.

Chuck Shute: 25:31

Yeah, and that must be the nice part about having a project like flat black, where this is like your baby, right? Like, I mean, I think Rex said, like, he want you want it to be a band, though. Like, it's not like you're giving orders. But ultimately, it comes down to if there's a if there's a disagreement, or something you have final say, Yeah, to

Jason Hook: 25:49

a certain degree, but I also don't subscribe to the dictatorship slash bullying. You know, I, there's a, a well known old adage, which is if you want to go fast, go by yourself, if you want to go far. Go with a team. Right? So. And I think that I think that all relationships and when one person tries to control another person, so I'm trying, I try not to insert myself as you know, the Thor, the dictator. And I'm really pushing this as a band, I wanted to be a band, you know, I think that it's more exciting. I think that I want everyone to sort of gravitate towards their favorite member, you know, not unlike, like, kiss or something. And, you know, my ego isn't big enough for me to insist on being the focus, even though it's probably going to happen by default. I really like the idea of spreading around and have everyone be a good team. You know, I think that's the secret of success is a group of people all working in tandem towards a common goal.

Chuck Shute: 26:58

That makes sense. Yeah. And I mean, it does feel like that too. When you listen, like I said, the drumming is insane. The same is insane. Your guitar work is insane. The baselines are insane, like everything. There's no weak links. The songwriting is insane. The production everything is good.

Jason Hook: 27:13

Thanks. Well, look, I'm a quality snob. Self proclaimed, you know, and, and, you know, whatever I do, it's always going to be 110%. And that may sound cliche, and everyone says the same ship, but, but for me, I just I don't settle. I can't settle. I just have a radar for that. That can be better, you know. Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 27:37

Now, how did you do the songwriting? I can't remember when I talked to Rex, I think I believe that he helped write some of the lyrics, right.

Jason Hook: 27:44

Oh, yeah, for sure. I had done a bunch of writing with some of my friends that were willing to help me out. You know who Keith Wallen is. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 27:55

I had him on the show from Breaking Benjamin. Right. So nice guy, super

Jason Hook: 28:00

guy, one of my buddies. And wait, I heard Keith sing. We were touring with breaking band. And there was a section of the break adventure where he gets to stand up and sing, like sad, but true. And I'm sitting there side stage every night going, Holy shit. And I go, dude, with a voice like that. You need to do your own thing, man. You know, and he's just, he's just a tiny did do his own. He's

Chuck Shute: 28:29

got Yeah, yeah,

Jason Hook: 28:30

exactly. Exactly. I'd like there's no reason why you shouldn't be rockin man. And so, you know, I really, I was hoping that he and I could do something together. But he is clearly in should be on the path he's on. But he did. We wrote a bunch of stuff with Keith, you know, he's, he's a badass. And you know, and then I knew that I needed somebody to come in and sing so when I found Rex we you know, Rex injected his you know, his magic into everything that was done and and tweak things and added lyrics. And we wrote some stuff from scratch. I mean, it's just that's the way this came together. You know?

Chuck Shute: 29:11

Yeah, no, it's great. And then talk about to about the look of because I feel like that's something that sometimes gets overlooked no pun intended, like but that is an important part of a band is like is you have that you definitely have your look and then Rex I mean, he's got that he's got his look as well. I mean, that's important piece of it, right? And especially a fan of kiss like yourself, right?

Jason Hook: 29:33

Well, it's interesting. You're like the first person to ever bring this up. And I'm not exactly sure what the right answer is except for except for I'm you know, I was looking for winners, and winners. Consider the whole package. You know, like people that are healthy, think healthy, look healthy, treat themselves with respect. Winners, you know, I want to build this is to be a Formula One race car. And not a jalopy. You know, and, and so there's just those types of personalities where you can just tell that's a winner. I can't, you know, without going the the look is it's really just about the music. But I also wanted to I just feel like that that component is completely forgotten about these days, you know, like, the bands are they look like a bus stop.

Chuck Shute: 30:30

Yeah, I mean to me, like I grew up in the, in the 80s, I guess. I was I grew I actually grew up in Seattle in the 90s. But I was starting to get into that the metal of the 80s and 90s. And like, I was a big Skid Row fan, and I had Rachel on he was telling us telling me how like, you know, that's why the pics a bastion was because the guy they had could sing fine, but he just didn't have that like star quality. And they got Subash and like, this guy's got the star quality. He's got that swagger, swagger, the look all that piano he can sing obviously, too. He

Jason Hook: 30:59

they put him on the cover of Rolling Stone. Yeah, if you remember, and oh, yeah, they sold a billion units of that edition. And, and the band, ironically, who invited him into the band didn't get to be on the gaffer. Right? But hey, man, whatever it gets it done, that band blew the fuck up. I would only wish I could be in the same situation that they went through, you know?

Chuck Shute: 31:25

What do you mean with a flyback? You're saying? Yeah,

Jason Hook: 31:28

I can't, it's hard for me to tell. I can't tell because there's no album. So far, the reception has been really good. But without the album out, it's hard to figure out what people are reacting to and what the potential is. You know, we like I said, we haven't really worked at the album yet. That comes after July.

Chuck Shute: 31:46

Hmm. So but people can preorder it now. Right? You can

Jason Hook: 31:50

preorder it now. And I want I should clarify that. The digital stuff. iTunes, Spotify, that's all happening July 19. Right? If anyone wants to vinyl, or the CD, that street date is in October. So everything that they're pre ordering, physical stuff is being manufactured now and will be out after July and more closer to October. Okay,

Chuck Shute: 32:16

so yeah, I feel like that's pretty common these days. It just there's like backorder for vinyl and stuff. Because I guess

Jason Hook: 32:21

I mean, I don't I don't get it. I'm like, Okay, so let me get this straight. We're going to release his record on July 19. And nobody can then if God forbid anyone wants to buy it, they can't, like go to the physical outlet and buy it. I mean, I'm a little out of touch with how the whole thing works. But in the old days record would come out on that day, and you'd be able to get whatever version of it you want it. And I'm saying the old days like back in Death Punch time period, you know, right. But But I guess part of what happened was that I was late finishing the artwork. So I missed the deadline, I guess,

Chuck Shute: 32:56

oh, you could push the digital release to coincide, right. I mean, but that'd be kind of well, they're pre

Jason Hook: 33:02

there's pre orders available. And I also tell you, Chuck that the ditch, the physical stuff has a live album on side side for so there's a double vinyl. And it was really weird because they're like there's there's, there's not enough music to fit four sides so that we have to put like one or two or three songs per side. I'm like, well, that's hurt. And I go, let's put something else on there. I got bonus tracks I got and what do you want? And they're like, Well, do you. I recorded all of our live shows from the Godsmack tour. So we drove we pull them out, mix them up, and then you get a slide for his live from Edmonton. Nice.

Chuck Shute: 33:42

How did that go? How does that go live because you're opening for Godsmack. I mean, that's kind of a tough part of the set to be or the bill because sometimes people aren't even at the venue yet. And then you're trying to convince them but at the same time, it gives you a chance to win them over.

Jason Hook: 34:00

I think it's the if you're going to do touring, if you're going to go out there and do hard weeks of touring. It's far more advantageous to play in front of 15 20,000 people a night you stand a better chance of expanding and capturing new hearts and minds than to play a club tour in front of 100 people that already love you. There's no growth happening there. 100 people come and I'm talking 100 people because when we started with Godsmack we had zero monthly listeners zero nothing. So that was a such an amazing opportunity to get new people acquainted with flat black and it had a workout right after the show we would do a free Meet and Greet free up by the concessions and to 300 people a night word line up to say hello and I got to look in their eyes and hear the feedback and shake your hand and I'm We grew so fast as a result of being in front of that many eyeballs, it was invaluable. And thank you to Solian gasbag because they really helped us out. And we're going back out with him. So it's just been they've been great. Yeah. How does

Chuck Shute: 35:15

that work? Like, do you have to go through the management? And then the management has to pitch it to Godsmack? And then they have to decide or you just are you good enough friends with them? Where you can just say, Hey, guys, can you help me out?

Jason Hook: 35:25

A bit of both? Okay. Both. I mean, I know those guys a bit from the previous situation. And, and, you know, I mean, solely heard, he heard our record, and was like, Yeah, let's try it. Yeah. And I think he's into that I think he's into helping, which is such an admirable quality. He certainly is operating at such a high level of success that he decides to give back. And help, which is just, you know, it's awesome. And he has been a tremendous help. And that's how, you know, it's a bit of both managers talk to people. I've just got this new thing. It's this guy from this old baby, blah. And, you know, it's been great. That's

Chuck Shute: 36:09

amazing. What, what, and he's a high level of success, you've obviously had a high level of success. What do you how do you explain that level of success? So like an average person, I'm just thinking of like, I don't hear a Seinfeld fan, but where he's like dating the doctor, she's like, Do you know what it's like to save a life? And he's like, it's like hitting a homerun and softball, like, like, how do you explain being in a huge band and having fans? You know, yell for you? I don't know what that's like, what how do you explain to someone? Well,

Jason Hook: 36:38

it really is, towards the end of Death Punch. It was, it was so it was new for all of us. And I had never experienced anything like that. But you get a small taste of what it's like to, to really be like, outnumbered. I remember. Like, backstage, there was just more and more people would sneak their way in. And like Friends of the building owner or the promoter or next door neighbor of the thing. And you couldn't escape it. That not in a bad way. But like people would just walk into my dressing room and sit down a JSON. And I'd be like, I'm texting through manager like, Who is this? Who is this guy? You know, it was he gets a little kooky. And you know, you can't walk around anywhere close to the venue. Because, you know, we try to go to the mall and stuff. And one person says, Can I get a photo? And then before you know what, there's 1012 people lining up, and you got to get out of there. And it was really fun stuff. And I would love to be back at that point. I love cats, by the way. Yeah, that's

Chuck Shute: 37:44

my cat. We don't even have a name for him. He's just the kitten, but ya know, that's a wow, that's so fascinating to hear. Yeah, that would be I Yeah, that's definitely the downside of fame. Really? I mean, right. I mean, you're not that obviously the Tom Cruise level war, everybody. But I mean, such a huge following that, especially like you said, near the venue and stuff. It's your, like, a Tom Cruise pretty much.

Jason Hook: 38:08

The it's never Tom Cruise. I mean, that's like off the top of the stratosphere fame. You know, I watched better flex luck and yelling at TMZ all day long. And it was never like that. But for me, that was the first time any of us had sort of gone experienced that sort of, we're severely outnumbered. And the band is super popular. And everybody's trying to get a piece of it. And you got to be mentally built for that. You know, it's there are it's it can be tough.

Chuck Shute: 38:42

Yeah. So now you you get you get to bring your hardcore fans with you to this new project, and then also, hopefully make some new fans and building up this brand.

Jason Hook: 38:54

Yeah, I look at it, like, you know, my life is gravy. You know, I everything that happened to me before. There's a lot of personal goals that were reached with that. So just to have something that makes me happy. That was sort of the primary goal, I want an outlet, I want to be get up and have a purpose every day. And I and in a perfect world, people will like it, but if they don't, that's okay, too, because I'm doing it for me, you know, really, so

Chuck Shute: 39:24

is that more the goal with this band is just to have an outlet and, and be creative and make music that you really love and obviously you're gonna it's not like you're gonna get 10 listeners. I mean, you've gotten you guys have 1000s of listeners already. But if it doesn't, there's no certain number that you're trying to reach or anything.

Jason Hook: 39:42

Well, not necessarily. I mean, look, it's show business. It's no good without an audience, right? So I would prefer to have the thing get as big as it can. That'd be nice. I would much rather play in front of 10,000 people than 100 Um, but that's you can't make the public like it, you can, you can carve up the record and be very picky and you can get the right label and all that stuff, but you just can't make the public like it. So, from this point forward, it's really not up to me. And when we have to make the next record and the next record, all I can do is start with what I feel inside. And if it resonates with people, then I get lucky.

Chuck Shute: 40:28

Yeah, so do you budget does that ever go into the making of a record? Like, do you think that you should make a song this certain way, or you should throw a song like this, to, you know, the more radio friendly song like even if you're, but you're not really loving it, but you're like, well, we should put a song like this on the record to help sell it. Do you ever have those kinds of thoughts?

Jason Hook: 40:47

Nah, nah, nah, because Well, the truth be told, I like big fat, juicy arena songs. I like that I grew up with that kind of stuff, you know. So it's, it's part of what I like. Right. So I think that's been helpful. You know, I'm not trying to be, I'm not trying to make things so complicated and underground that only a small minority understands it. I like big, fat, juicy songs, you know. And I don't, I got to do what feels natural to me. And, you know, I'm too old for to play that. We need to do this because of, you know,

Chuck Shute: 41:35

so you're putting songs because like, you have a couple kind of slower songs. I don't know, if you'd call a bit of lightning, it's not really a ballad, but it slowed down, I would say home is more that kind of almost, is about So those, those are songs that you just really believe and you really liked those. So you're not like, Oh, we got to put a ballad on here to for radio or something.

Jason Hook: 41:52

No, that's what my I'm one. I'm very proud of those two songs. Because that it's that's sort of more of my wheelhouse. You know, like, I write a lot of stuff on acoustic guitar and, and nobody's heard those songs yet, but I I think they deliver the emotion like it puts you in this like dark like sad, poignant vibe. And I was

Chuck Shute: 42:19

gonna say especially the bit of lightning the solo you do I can I can feel the emotion on that solo. Like, how do you do that? How do you feel the emotion in the solos in the in the guitar? Because I feel like there are some players that are very technically like, amazing, like, wow, look at him. But then you're just like, you're not really feeling the emotion but the soul on a bit of lightning. I'm like, I'm feeling this. Well, thanks.

Jason Hook: 42:43

I gave up on trying to be the fastest guitar player decades ago. I think that I do. I'm more interested in what I'm saying. You know, you don't judge a conversation by how many words you cram into five minutes. It's what I said. Not how much of it I said. Right. So management is blowing me up right now, because I missed another interview at 1230. But it's rescheduled so fuck

Chuck Shute: 43:10

it. Oh, che because he told me I had 45 minutes to an hour. All right. Well.

Jason Hook: 43:17

Anyway, I, when I work on the solos, I'm playing right. I'm playing from my heart in my gut. I just the way I do it is I just, I loop record many passes 3040 passes of the soul. And then and then I walk away. I come back the next morning with coffee, fresh yours, and I go through every single take and I go, Ooh, that was kind of a nice, nice opening. Let's let's keep that and ooh, that's a nice ending. Let's keep that. Ooh, that could make a nice middle part. Or I gotta fix the middle of socked. I don't have a good man. I mean, I just work them up like that, like a beginning and middle and then so that it kind of grabs you. And it gives you an emotion, right. And then I'm very picky about the nuances of the performance, like the howling and the moaning and screaming and it's like it's supposed to you know, it's it's a technique that I have worked up over many years. And seems to seems to work.

Chuck Shute: 44:20

Yeah, because it just feels like you're really like almost like, expressing your emotion through the guitar on that one. And what inspired that song? Can you say like, is it something something personal in your life? Lightning? Yeah, the bit about a bit of lightning, a bit of lightning

Jason Hook: 44:34

was 100% put together over the pandemic. It was probably 20 middle of 2020, early 2021 where the whole world was shut down and and I had all these crew guys that were going like if you can if you hear of any work on Fox, you know, I have no money I've lost like there's no gigs. It's not that I lost my gig. It's no good eggs, and, you know, Live Nation and the whole thing was to, you know, the whole, we've never experienced anything like that as a country, right? So I just felt like, I just kept seeing all these people that were in dire straits. And so the that whole song was really just, you know, the Lyric is about asking for help asking for hope. You know, I could use a bit of lightning to get me through the dark. You

Chuck Shute: 45:30

know, that's fucking awesome. I love that. That's, that makes me write the song even more, which I already love that.

Jason Hook: 45:35

Hey, it's, it's it's I'm not very good at faking stuff. Everything that's on the record came from a real place, you know?

Chuck Shute: 45:43

Yeah, that's what I love about it. It's like it's such a journey to because you get like I said, you got those two, kind of slower songs and you got obviously got the fast, aggressive shit. And then I felt like nothing to some. That's a cool one. Now, that sounds like an almost like a little bit of a punk influence to me. You know,

Jason Hook: 45:57

that's Corey, right.

Chuck Shute: 45:59

Is that what that's all? Yeah, that's the one that he's guesting on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And,

Jason Hook: 46:05

I mean, that was just one of those songs where it's brutal. It's brutal, but it has a vibe. It has good pulse. Right? Really fun to play that one live. The solo on that. The solo on that track was one take. There's no rhythm guitar. So I really was trying to bring back that older sound like what Pantera used to do. There's no reason why multilayer everything up. I'm going to play a solo. He's on bass. He's on drums, and just let it live like that. And it's not something you ever hear nowadays, but I love that. I was like, I'm doing that, you know?

Chuck Shute: 46:42

Yeah. And that one's out. Now people can listen to that. Like you said Corey Glover from Slipknot for Sorry, sorry. Corey Glover. I'm thinking of living color. I just had him on. If you're living color fan.

Jason Hook: 46:55

Oh, yeah. Well, when he first came around with the cult of personality, I mean, he was

Chuck Shute: 47:02

I saw them live recently. And I was like, Oh, my they they still sound amazing. You know, some bands like, they get older and they can't keep up. They sound amazing. So

Jason Hook: 47:11

yeah, or as a motherfucker. Oh, yeah, that's what I'm trying to think.

Chuck Shute: 47:15

I had Dave Fortman from ugly kid Joe on and he produced one of the slipknot albums. And he said, Corey Taylor was the best singer he'd ever worked with. He could do everything like one take. Yeah,

Jason Hook: 47:27

he's he's bionic, insane. And

Chuck Shute: 47:30

he has he has a solo thing too. That he does, right? Oh,

Jason Hook: 47:34

yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he he's one of the hardest working dudes I know. You know, he's got these just doing 10 things at all times. And one of the most talented people I've ever worked with, too. I mean, the guy just the guy just writes with ease. What he does is something you don't find very often, you know, right.

Chuck Shute: 47:56

Yeah. Do you think that you would do any touring with with him either his solo or was slipknot? Well,

Jason Hook: 48:01

it's it's up to him. You know? My my answer of course would be yes. You know, anomalies a friend but I'm, I greatly admire his talent, you know? And, but so yeah, for me, that's it's a given but it's really up to him. I'm not the only one pulling his pant leg going. What about us?

Chuck Shute: 48:22

Everyone seems like you're friends with all these guys. Godsmack. Slipknot, like, is there anyone you're not friends with?

Jason Hook: 48:31

I won't make jokes. But, look, if you zoom out, the greater mission here is to be positive, spread good energy, be cool and kind. It's not about tantrums. It's not about ego or spent, you know, pre Madonna. It's not about a song about that. You know, music is built to be shared. And so you have to respect the people that are also doing that your peers and also the people that are enjoying what you did. They're all important. All these people are important. You know, I don't treat anyone differently. You know?

Chuck Shute: 49:15

Yeah. Well, it's kind of like that the movie that you were in the Hired Gun about all these people. And that's like doing these interviews, you start to learn there's certain people that you there's a reason that you keep seeing them getting hired so many times because they're easy to work with, and they're not difficult. I can't remember who it was. I didn't Rudy sarzo I had on and saying, you know anybody can there's a lot of people that can play bass. There's a lot of people that can play guitar and drums. It's like, the bigger thing is like, are you reliable? Can I work with you? Like is it going to be difficult because that's a bigger piece of the puzzle. It sounds like

Jason Hook: 49:46

it's, it's 100% Right? Are you going to spend time with somebody that makes you feel uncomfortable? Now, you're just not and this is very true in the music business, especially in band As your people would much rather have somebody that's has good energy and brings a positive attitude, but may not be as good of a player as the asshole that's always in a bad mood, negative energy, curmudgeon, you know, it's all about the hang man. It's like you only get one life. And it's so short. That, you know, it's a how to it's the quality of life, and how do I feel on a daily basis? That's really all it comes down to? Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 50:31

I just think back to the Skid Row, and like how those guys keep saying, like, No, we don't, we don't want Sebastian back in the band, we're good. And not saying it's all his fault, for whatever reason, they just don't want to work with him. And like, I kind of understand that because like, you think about your own life. Like if you're even if you're not in a band, like there's probably people that are good at what they do that you just wouldn't want it, whatever field you're in, that you don't want to work with. I mean, you see it in sports, you can see these amazing athletes that get traded from teams, you know, like, why would they trade that guy? And it's like, Well, why do you think?

Jason Hook: 51:02

Yeah, well, it's, it's, it's just in life. You know, it's like, I know, the skid guys really well. And their idea. Oh, yeah. Yeah, their priority is quality of life. You know? Yeah. How do I feel on a daily basis? And when you've been doing it as long and as they have, that's the only thing left? You know, there's only thing left is Do I enjoy this? Or is it painful or painless? That's it. Yeah. Like where I'm at.

Chuck Shute: 51:33

I just always wonder because I had snake on and I had Rachel on. And they never tell me like, Hey, you can't ask about Subash. And then I feel like people ask them in the interviews, like almost every time and I'm like, can we just do that? If they're not ready? Like, can we just stop having people ask them about it then because it's always a headline, Snake says he still won't have Sebastian back in the band. And I'm like, why do we keep going through this rigmarole? It's, I don't know,

Jason Hook: 51:57

I just watched an interview with steak. And he handled it. So well. He's such an adult, you know? And has so much class. And I thought the way he navigated the questions was just brilliant. And they've answered these questions. There's no need to keep going through it.

Chuck Shute: 52:17

Yeah, but they asked.

Jason Hook: 52:21

I mean, I close with him, he, you know, he's, he's at peace. And at the end of the day, that's all that matters.

Chuck Shute: 52:30

That's all I want for everybody. And I think music is the way that brings us all together. You know, I think that's what's so cool about music is that, I mean, because I interview not just musicians, I interview people from all different sorts of fields and stuff. But I feel like at the end of the day, music is the thing that everybody can gravitate to, you know, you go to a flat black show, I'm sure you're gonna see people from all different backgrounds, all just coming together to listen to music and rock out.

Jason Hook: 52:55

I think that one of the things that I'm trying to accomplish with this new band is, you know, not everything has to be anger based, right? I want some positivity and some uplifting tones, you know, because there are many different emotions we feel as human beings. So I'm trying to when I go to write a song, it's about what what's the emotion I'm focused on? I think just being angry gets dull.

Chuck Shute: 53:26

I agree. Yeah, I do. Although I do like the anger songs still, like the lack of respect. Yeah, maybe to a bit of whitening also, that's a little cool thing about an album. You got a whole journey. Yeah. different sides of of your personality that are showcased. Well,

Jason Hook: 53:40

it's like I said, I I pick the songs that delivered the emotion. The best. So yeah, I mean, like, if there's three heavy songs that weren't that potent, then there, it's better to have one, like lightning than those three, and try to keep it all like gnarly. And, you know, it's just, it's an instinct that I've worked on my whole life is trying to figure out how to get people's attention and hold it and get them to come back. What's the secret? You know? Yeah, well, you're

Chuck Shute: 54:11

doing an amazing job. And just I'm still interested in going back to the self help stuff. Do you have any books or any gurus that you recommend? Like, I mean, because whatever you're doing is obviously working 100%

Jason Hook: 54:24

What's there's a there's a great book called unfuck yourself. Oh, yeah.

Chuck Shute: 54:31

Is that the same guy that wrote a subtle art of not giving a fuck? Yeah, that's another one. Okay. Yeah, cuz I'd read that one. But I haven't read that the unfuck yourself if it's the same author, I'm not sure but yeah, I've heard of that.

Jason Hook: 54:42

There's, I mean, I would have to go through my audible but there's a whole litany of really good stuff out there. Some are better than others, obviously the power of now. And you know, Dale Carnegie it's there's a whole I mean, I look if you're a five pack hang up my hotel room, I'll just throw that on gives me something to ingest to reset my brain on the way out to my day, you know,

Chuck Shute: 55:08

you don't listen to music when you do that or you do both. I don't listen to music. Are you one of those guys? Okay, yeah,

Jason Hook: 55:15

I don't. I mean, I'm music swirling around my brain. So I'm very protective of that. I don't want to invite. I don't want to bite too much information and scramble that up, you know?

Chuck Shute: 55:27

Gotcha. Okay. Well, thank you so much for doing this again. The album is available on July 19. Via fearless records and then the vinyl and stuff will be it's available now for preorder comes out in October. The dark side of the brain, flat black is the BAM Jason hook is the man. Anything else? And then tour dates, right? You got some shows lined up?

Jason Hook: 55:48

July 19. We go with Godsmack for a week and a half or two weeks, and then we start up again with him September through November.

Chuck Shute: 55:58

Okay, cool. Yeah, I think you're coming to I'm in Arizona. I don't think you're coming to Phoenix, but you're coming to Tucson so I don't fall foul. If I'm around that week. I'll try to make the drive.

Jason Hook: 56:06

That'd be great. I'd love to see you just let me know you're coming. Okay. I'll be

Chuck Shute: 56:10

in that will be that guy in the back that you're like, fuck is this guy? No. All right. Thanks so much.

Jason Hook: 56:16

Thank you, Chuck.

Chuck Shute: 56:17

I appreciate it.