Improv in Real Life with Joe Van Haeke

Your life is one big improv stage and you get to play any character you want. In any given situation, most of us are just making it up as we go anyway. Why not make improv off-stage as fun as it is on stage? From supporting your scene partner, to active listening, to getting to the real relationship behind the words, improv skills seriously translate to real life. Joe Van Haecke has dedicated his life to sharing improv skills with the world for personal and professional development among fellow humans. 

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For over 20 years, Joe has studied, performed, and coached improv. As the Chief of Inspiration at Inspire Me Mr V, Joe brings improv into business, education, and 1:1 coaching. Improv skills help us be better communicators, better collaborators, and stronger leaders. Improv is not just for actors anymore!

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:10

All right, we are live on the second episode, season two of For the Love of Improv. And I am your host, Jesse Wicks. And I'm Katie Welsh. And we have Joe Van Hackey on today. And Katie will explain all about Joe.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Yeah, we're super excited to have Joe today. Just a little uh background, and I know he'll fill us in more when we uh start talking to him. Uh, but Joe, for over 20 years, has studied improv at places like Io, Second City, um, and with folks like Jimmy Corrain. I hope I'm saying that right. Yeah. Um, and Joe Bill. He has performed at Kansas City's Comedy City, formerly known as Comedy Sports, uh, Batteries Optional in Des Moines, and even started his own troupe in 2003 that continues to perform called Comedy Experiment. Love to hear more about that, also in Des Moines. Um, he later moved on to coaching large group improv at Iowa High School Speech Association, also used improv in the classroom teaching English, and is now the chief of inspiration. I love that title at Inspire Me Mr. V. Um, and we'll give you that website um some at some point, and we'll definitely put in the show notes uh for you to visit and check out, um, whose mission is to bring improv into business, education, and one-on-one coaching. Improv skills, according to Joe, help us be better communicators. I gotta agree, better collaborators, and stronger leaders. Improv is not just for actors anymore. Welcome to Joan, Joe Van Hackey. To the to for the less of improv. Did I did I say your name? Please tell me I said your name right.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

You you might have said Joan instead of Joe, but I'm you know, it's it's that's that's that's how the scene is running. So we're good with that.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

He plays both male and female, so it's it's appropriate. The the male and the female version are here today. Um that's as much reading as we do on For the Love, the improv, the rest of it will be improvised. Um the first question we ask all of our guests is how did you how why did you first go to your very first improv class, show, whatever it was, and why did you keep coming back?

unknown 2:25

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

So I'll try to give you the as much of a reader's digest version as I can. Growing up, I always wanted to be a stand-up comedian and took a couple classes here in the Des Moines area, ended up moving to Kansas City and a pit stand-up on a back burner until my best friend for life and his cousin both encouraged me to try out for comedy sports. And I said, I have no idea what you're talking about. So we went to a show that following weekend, and if you're not familiar with comedy sports, it's a short form show with two teams of quote unquote athletes doing short form games in a sports competitive format. I'm watching this and I'm just amazed and blown away. I said, yes, that's what I want to do. That might have been a Friday or Saturday. They had auditions that that Sunday. I went and auditioned and was invited to become part of this new cast expand that they were expanding. On my first day in workshops, I realized that some of the people that I had auditioned with had been taking workshops already. The director must have seen something in me that he felt like we can work with this guy. And I've been in love with it ever since. I've had so much fun. The collaboration, the friendships, the relationships, the insights into life through studying and performing airprof just keep me coming back day after day, week after week.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Right. Yeah, there's something about just walking into a place, not knowing what to expect, and walking back out and knowing you have a community and that like you've found your thing. Like that, like I can't express like my first time coming out of an improv, you know, show where I was like, that's what I'm doing now. Like I'll be doing this for a while.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Yeah, exactly. I love I love that feeling when you end a show and you know, man, that show was fantastic, and you can't remember anything about it, but the audience does. And I I also love being able to travel and jam with people. I just met you five minutes ago. Let's hop up on stage and make some magic. Right and playing with different people of different skills and abilities and different approaches and techniques just expands my world and I love learning new things.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

Yeah. So with the way that you're explaining that, uh, it sounds like you're quite an extrovert then. Would you say that?

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Yeah, I I tend to lean towards the extrovert side. I believe that we both have extroverts and introverts inside of us. We just tend to lean more towards one way or the other. So I believe that I tend to be more extrovert, and I think maybe I'd go 70-30, maybe. Because there are days that it's like, I need a break from everybody, even my family. I'm like, can I just have five, 10 minutes? I'm gonna lock the door, listen to some music, just leave me alone for that time.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Yeah. Well, I think that's what's um, and I I know because I I did peruse through some of your blogs. You have quite a few blogs on your website. So I did see that there was one about extrovert and introverts. And I think that that is um, I also think I'm some sort of hybrid because I definitely get peopled out and I just need like me time and just, you know, um, but I also need a break from my the inside of my brain. And that's what I mean. To me, improv, um, that's what helps so much for me is just to get out of my head. Um, and also, but I think what's so fascinating because, you know, um I perform at Reno Improv.

unknown 5:55

Reno Improv.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Um, yay. Um, and um I see people come through there that are you would think the shyest people you've ever met before. And you see them grow and develop as they're doing improv and they just come keep coming back because I think for I can't speak because I am definitely more of an introvert extrovert as well than an introvert. So I can't speak for all introverts that are um, and I know some introverts, like my husband, would be like, um, no, I am never, you know, gonna set foot on a stage. But I think um that's what's so beautiful. Uh one of the many beautiful things about improv is that I think that discovery of self and coming out of your shell and having that support around you to just play and and be. And um, and that's yeah, that's totally one of the things I love about improv too.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Uh me as well. And in my workshops, I really emphasize the idea of like this is a safe space that we're going to give space and time for the introverts to be able to express themselves while also setting boundaries around the extroverts so the introverts don't feel the extroverts are just steamrolling everything. Because that's not how improv works. It's all collaboration, it's all listening. And I believe sometimes the introverts just feel, you know, I need this space, I need my private space, I need myself, and I can't step out of that. Well, here in an improv workshop, I'm going to give you that space. And hopefully, in the corporate world, that idea for leaders recognizes I need to create this safe space so all my people feel comfortable taking risks and voicing their opinions so they can they feel like they're being seen and heard.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Yeah, I love that. And I think um, yeah, and this is maybe a good time to, since you brought it up, to talk a little bit about your workshops and what what you offer. Um, and I definitely, before we get into that, I mean, I can definitely see the benefit. I mean, I have seen it just with my own personal experience, the benefit of improv, not you know, only for for introverts, but also for extroverts, because I think a ham like myself, you know, I mean, can use some reminders and some skills in terms of listening and being more mindful and even empathetic. I know that's something that that has a word that has popped up in in a lot of your descriptions on your website. And so I I really appreciate kind of those both sides. And so I I I don't know, I kind of want to because I know one of the one of the main phrases I can't I came across on your website was to be comfortable in the uncomfortable. And you know, so that's kind of a buzz phrase. So like let's unpack that a little bit. Like, what what does that mean? And I'm sure it means different things for different people, but what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Sure. So here's my my approach to that is on our daily basis, we're gonna experience stuff that makes us uncomfortable, whether it's taking a risk, uh, voicing an opinion that might be different from the majority of your people, whether it's a team or your classmates or whatever. Those are just two examples right off the top of my head that those are those times that we feel uncomfortable. In an improv workshop, I encourage people let's step into that comfortable, uncomfortable space. So you recognize what is my body telling me? What is what am I feeling inside? What is how is my brain interpreting my feelings and how am I responding to that? By doing that in a low-stakes environment, such as an uh improv workshop, we start to build strategies and skills and rework our brain muscles so that when we feel uncomfortable, we know we're safe. Oh, I've felt this way before. Oh, I know the strategy I used before. I'm gonna try to use that again.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

And hopefully pathways in your brain to understand that feeling instead of be afraid of it.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Exactly. Kat Coppet calls it uh the mental gem, the workout for the gym. Our brain is a muscle. So I think in all throughout our schooling, we get programmed to think in one way, and this is the way, and we get stuck with that. Improv gives us the muscles and the techniques and the workout to break out of our set patterns so we can feel comfortable and confident when we're in a situation that normally we might feel uncomfortable, or have that discomfort and that want to shrink and back away from the difficult conversation, or something that this is completely new to me, I don't want to do it, or you're asking me to speak in front of the whole department, not gonna happen. All these things through improv workshops and and repetition, we build those muscles that it's like, yes, I understand that I'm uncomfortable speaking in front of the whole department, and I'm gonna go do it anyway.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

Right. It's kind of, I mean, it's I mean, it's the same thing in in in like any muscle, like not just your brain, but any muscle. Like it's it's the small things every day that you do, and then one day you're gonna need that strength. You know, you you're you're building up, you're building up, and then there's there's one day that you're actually gonna need it. So it's not like the little actions that you take all the time. It's it's the habits that you build up over time to have your body naturally respond a certain way. Um don't end up having that fear when you are thrust into a situation where you need to be a leader or um yeah, totally 100%.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

And we don't let that fear stop us from doing it anyway. As improvisers, we talk about following following the fear. Well, that's what it is is recognizing I'm afraid or I'm feeling fear at the moment. I'm not gonna let that stop me. In fact, I'm gonna yes, and the fear, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Yeah. Well, and that's so it's such a powerful feeling. And I I think that um, like going along with uh what Jess mentioned is is that, or you know, creating that habit and and how that I mean, it's not easy. It doesn't, it's not like you're gonna take one workshop or do one show or take one class and then suddenly, I mean, that's when I first started improv, you know, the way that they have it set up at Reno Improv is that you take, you know, the most basic class, obviously, and it's fun and it's short games and yay, you know, kind of like improv kindergarten and it's so fun. And then you get into long inform, you know, long improv forms, and it's like, oh god, like all these rules, and now everything I do is, you know, and then it's you know, learning how to break out of those rules. And but even you know, through all of that, I mean, I'm still honing in on that. And every time I overcome my fear on stage or whatever, or get try, you know, because it's for me, it was it was a struggle, and I think it is for a lot of improvisers in the beginning or even throughout to get out of your head to make good choices. And I think that's so true for life, too, right? It's like that little voice going of fear of like, why are you doing that? What are you doing? You're gonna risk yourself, you're gonna get yourself hurt. You're gonna, if you do that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yes, 100%. A lot of my readings, a lot of uh coaches that I follow and I'm associated with talk about the imposter, the perfectionist, the people pleaser, the warrior, all these uh mental gremlins, if you will, that are in the world.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

I think I'm all of those, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

Don't we all? And I think of it this way I'm gonna yes and my inner impostor or inner impostor, I'm gonna yes and my inner improviser. Because if we have all those fears, we have to have the opposite. And the opposite is our improviser. And if you think about it in a show, we don't have time to deal with that. We don't have time to deal with the perfectionist going, don't say that line, say this line, no, that line's no good, say this line. We don't have time for that. We need to listen and be in the moment and say, yes, and so yes, and our our inner improviser really takes care of the imposter and the perfectionist and the warrior.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

Yeah. So what does that look like on like a practical level? Like in one of your classes, like how, like, what specifically are you are you teaching to to yes and your inner improviser or one one of the things I start very basic.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Um, going into a workshop in a corporation, people are like, this is my set pattern. Again, like we talk about patterns and our mindset, right? I don't that looks strange, that looks scary to me. So I start off very low.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

Or we're bringing in some weird improv nerd that I have to go listen to for two hours.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Exactly. So I really uh talk about um improv 101 or or kindergarten improv. I'm doing, I start off like almost at the preschool level, and I do that for a number of reasons. First of all, to make everybody feel comfortable, make sure that everybody feels, hey, you are welcome to participate at whatever level you feel comfortable with. And if that means sitting on the side, that's okay. I still need you to observe because you're gonna see things that we are that are in the moment are not gonna be able to observe. And then I just slowly keep pushing and pushing of adding more and more of those. Um, if you want to call them basic improv games or warm-up activities, keep adding complexity, complexity and complexity and complexity. And when things work out, we get to doing small little scenes, even if it's like just two-line scenes, to help understand, even in the moment when it's just two people, we can build a safe space where everybody can be seen and heard and feel they're being listened to.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

Yeah, that's why I get so frustrated when um warmups are skipped, because it's I think it's really important for me as someone who is super self-conscious to uh have a little win. So, like if I can just do zip zap and then like I okay, I'm I'm I'm zip zapping and zapping and I've got it. And then they're adding in some kind of like something into it. Okay, now we're gonna do what was it in in a reno improv, you'd have to like dodge it or something like that. Oh no, those little different rules of zip zap that they add, you mean they added about so like I would get really good at it, and then they would throw something at me, and then it was like I I already had those wins set up of like, oh, I killed zip zip zip. Like I got uh I got this whole improv thing down, and then it that that gives me a base instead of just like whatever I had brought with me in the day, um that's self-defeating. I'm getting rid of that because I'm I'm starting off the practice with a win, you know, and then that helps get me out of that mindset of like, oh, I can do the next tiny little thing they added. And before you know it, you're doing like five modifications and you're, you know, all over the place, you know, and it's working because it's you got to start small. You can't jump into okay, we're gonna throw you on stage and you're gonna do a 30-minute scene. Go.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Like just 100%. I I agree with that. And I love using zip zap zop. And I often start with it after we get some name names down and and build on that. And I know a lot of improvisers, and I'll be honest myself, sometimes I get tired of zip zapzop, and when I recognize that, I recommit to it. But let's talk about just for a moment what's happening underneath the level of zip zapzop where we're throwing it around. It's asking us to listen, it's asking us to make eye contact, we have to stay present and in the moment, we have to support each other for four things that are happening almost subconsciously right there when we're playing zip zap zop. And I know I can pull out, especially with my high schoolers, but sometimes even with adults, you're not present because this is what happened: zip, zap, zip, zip, zap, zip, zip, zap, zip, zip. Um uh zapey, we're gonna stop right there because, and I don't necessarily call that person out, but that person was not present, not in the moment, not supportive of the other people involved in the workshop.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Yeah. And I guess we should, because we we do like to speak to those that are total beginners. Um, we should probably explain a little bit about for maybe some people out there listening that might not know what zip zap zap is. It's a super simple game. Um, and it's basically you just it's you say it in the order, and if you start, you say zip, and then but you're pointing or looking, depending on how you play the game. You're looking at the next person and pointing at them, and they know then to say zap, and then they'll do the same to another person in the circle, usually, and that person says zap, and then we go back to zip, zap, zap, and that's all it is, but it is about being present because you have to listen for and look and be aware of it if it's gonna come and be passed to you. And so if you're not present, like you said, Joe, um you know, that that falls apart, and that is a very basic principle in improv. Improv is a team sport, it's not a solo sport, it's not golf.

SPEAKER_03 19:33

It's also something that's so super simple that people are like, oh, I don't want to do this, you know, like especially if you're you're a seasoned improviser. But what we're saying is like you have to start with these small, these small wins. It's like it's like basically a fundamental of improv. Not specifically zip zap zap, but like like these simple warm-up games. Um, what I think what you're saying, correct me if I'm wrong, is it it basically helps you to switch your brain into a mode of listening and um supporting your scene partner?

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Is that no one percent? These these warm-up activities really are so foundational in that they they reprogram our brain to slow down, to listen, and to respond instead of just me sitting here thinking, what am I gonna say next? What am I gonna say next? Oh no, I can't I can't think about that. I have to listen and wait till it's my turn to say zip or zap or zap. Yeah, to bring it back to our example.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Yes, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, I mean, maybe this is a good point to introduce a game, Joe. Um, so we can uh dig into some more concrete examples of uh some of the things you do with the folks that take your workshops. With that, are you ready?

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Yeah, perfect, Katie. So cool. I'm gonna do one. I think it might even be challenging for us as um somewhat skilled improvisers. Okay, but this is a basic one that I use all the time, and sometimes I'll even use it with with comedy experiment as our troop, just to refresh ourselves of like this is how how we play. So we're going, this is called yes and plan, and we're gonna plan a party. And I'm seeing some nods already, which tells me you're you're familiar with this. So uh I'm gonna have Jess start and then I'll go and then Katie or yeah, Katie goes, and then we'll just keep going in that order.

SPEAKER_03 21:26

I'm actually not familiar with it. Yeah, I'm not completely either.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

So um, so we're gonna throw up plan a party, and we're gonna do two rounds of this. And the first round, each successful person, successive person starts their sentence off with yes, but oh so uh Jess, I'm gonna uh how'd I say Jess, then Katie, then me? Sure. Okay, Jess, Katie, then me. So uh Jess, give us a theme for a party. Say uh we're gonna throw a fill in the blank party.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

We're gonna throw a G.I. Joe party.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

And so Katie, it's your turn now, and you start off with yes, but yes, but I don't have any G.I. Joes.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

Yes, but we don't want Barbies at our party.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

Yes, but what if the girls don't like GF GI Joe?

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Yes, but they will have to.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Yes, but then they won't show up.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

Yes, but maybe that's the point. Maybe the boys don't want them there.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Yes, but then who will wear all the pretty dresses?

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Okay, I'm gonna stop us there because you can already see. Uh so I want you to hold on to some observations or what was going through our brain there, because this time we're gonna say yes and. Okay. Uh Jess, if you want to start us off again, and you can use the same idea for the party or just uh give us a different theme.

SPEAKER_03 23:19

Okay. Uh we are going to throw a blues and babies party.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

Yes, and I will get the blue cake.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Yes, and I will hire a blues band to play.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Did I say that?

SPEAKER_03 23:39

Oops. Yes, and I will make the blues band all hot chocolate.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Yes, and I will sprinkle the hot chocolate with marshmallows.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Yes, and we'll invite everybody we know.

SPEAKER_03 24:02

Yes, and I'll have a bunch of babies.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

Yes, and I will have a bunch of baby toys.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Yes, and we'll make sure there's plenty of diapers there.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

Yes, because I'll need them too.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Yes, and I also have bathroom problems.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Yes, and we will bring in uh portable, portable toilet kibo bathroom porta potties, whatever they're calling anymore, for everybody that has bathroom issues. Okay, I'm gonna stop us there. Snaps.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Snaps for everyone. Too deep into the bathroom issues. Let's stop there.

unknown 24:43

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 24:45

Goes down there, you gotta yes and it.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

Yep. That's part of part of the game, right? However, after the when we were yes butting, what did you feel? And what did you notice?

SPEAKER_01 24:59

I mean, I think I felt um, even though I always joke with Jess that I'm the yes butt person. Um like, well, did you think about this? Um, but it did feel um like I was rejecting ideas and that didn't feel good.

SPEAKER_03 25:19

Um I felt disconnected, I feel like, from the story because it was just it changed faster. It was just you you couldn't, there was no way to go with an idea, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 25:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

I I felt myself becoming disengaged knowing that my idea was going to be um shot down or negated.

unknown 25:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

And my brain started shutting down because it was going, what's what's the point? Okay, yeah. Now let's come can contrast that with the yes and portion.

SPEAKER_03 26:00

Um yeah, I mean, I mean, I, you know, I said hot chocolate and Katie acknowledged that I said hot chocolate and she used it in hers. So I kind of felt like we were in it more in it together, I guess, because we were working on the same idea together.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Yeah, it also felt like it had somewhere to go and that it builds it built up. It was there was a there's um it allowed for buildup or or heightening, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

One of my students recently said it this way that I love is yes, but is uh compet competitive, whereas yes and is collaborative. Yeah, and I was like, Thank you, I'm gonna steal that from my own. Yeah, it's easy to talk about yes and. And when I introduce myself and talk about uh applying improv into life and the workforce, I get this all the oftentimes of oh, yes, and you do improv. We just say yes and keep going, but that's not what it is, it's slowing down to listen and accept ideas and build on them so we come to a uh an agreed-upon ideal overall vision. We're not saying we're gonna institute and act on every single idea in that process. We're saying we're gonna listen. And when you start applying that to yourself and inside or outside of the improv world into everything that you do, whether it's your relationships with your spouse, your children, your coworkers, your teams that you're a leader of, when you create a yes and environment, everybody feels empowered, everybody feels encouraged to express their ideas and have their ideas listened to. That's the power. When I run this exercise, we can talk about what yes and means all the time, but until you actually participate in this exercise and feel how combative yes but or no becomes, right? That's where that's where the power of improv and this art form really starts to take place.

SPEAKER_03 28:08

Yeah. Yeah, I think it, I think it's interesting, you know, you say this rule and everybody's like, oh, yes, and you start from the beginning, but nobody actually nobody's ever like said, hey, just to illustrate why we're saying yes, and let's do the opposite and let you feel that. Like that was the first time I felt the yes here. And it definitely brought up some like, oh, I experienced this like at work a lot.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Sure. Or with or with Katie.

SPEAKER_03 28:35

Or with Katie quite a bit. Um yeah. Sorry. No, but I I guess my question is if you if you feel like you are in a yes but environment, what what can you you do personally to to turn it around into a yes and environment?

SPEAKER_02 28:55

That's a great question.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Uh you could bring in an improviser, do some applied improv workshops. Uh shameless plug. But I don't know, bring it up to your leaders, or if you're a leader in the team, just take some time to sit back and reflect and see what kind of culture or environment is being created. If we're a yes but culture, how is that affecting people? Do I have a lot of turnover? I don't know. I that's a great question, Jess. Uh, if without getting involved in it, I really think taking time to study, go out, take some improv classes of your own.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Well, and I'm wondering too, I mean, obviously we're talking very generally, so it's it's probably hard to answer in a specific way, but um just thinking of some scenarios in my life, just with some relationships and stuff where I have a yes but person in my life. Um and I did experience recently uh where we went out to dinner with this person, and everybody else I would say was in a yes and mood. You know, it was like everybody was just in a good mood and a yes and mood. We had dinner at this place, and everything that went could go wrong went wrong, like everything. And the person I'm talking about who's a yes but person is very, you know, reactive to that sort of thing and was really having a hard time with dealing with the fact that everything was going wrong. Um, and this person kind of feels like, you know, anyways, I won't go into get into too much of that. Um, but but I saw that because there was sort of this energy, this positive energy around that person, I heard this person say in the middle of all of this, you know, I could be really upset, but because I'm surrounded with friends and family that I love, and this is something this person never says out loud ever. And I was flabbergasted and I truly felt it was because everybody's energy, he or she could not deny, could not overcome. And and I felt like, you know, so I feel too that could be just like kind of addressing what you were saying is like if you have it's hard though, I think the the numbers might might, you know, uh be important, but if you have one or two people, you know, perhaps that yes and energy can overcome that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 31:42

Well, and I guess what that made me think of, we're just we're just going off on your topic here. Uh you talk in a minute. Um what what that made me think of is okay, well, if you you know, kind of that thing, okay, if every if everybody in your life, you know, if one person in your life is a dick, they're probably just a dick. But if there's a lot of people that repeatedly show up in your life that that are dicks, like like it's probably you. Like, I mean, maybe, maybe there's something that I'm doing professionally that I'm not aware of. And I need to be more positive in yes and with some of these people that that end up being that way. I work, I work with, I do a lot of client work, so I'm always working with different people. Um, so it's not necessarily like one relationship. Um so yeah, maybe there's somewhere in my professional life I need to be more yes-anding.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Yeah, and I mean, it definitely was a moment for me too in that in that circumstance where, you know, because I'm not always I'm not always, you know, in a yes and mood either, but I did felt I feel I felt like that helped the situation somehow. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

I don't know that I that we could be yes and 100% all the time. However, we can at least start paying attention to ourselves, yes anding, and helping others around us maybe buy into it and creating an environment that man, I want to hang out with Joe or Jess or Katie more often because they are just fun to be with. And and whatever I say, we're gonna like at least explore and create that environment. You can do that with your clients, you can do that, like I said, with your uh spouses, parents, children, uh, your friends, your friends' friends, parents, whatever. Um so it's just I think there's a lot of opportunity there. Just starting to initiate yes and and it also touches over into mindfulness as well as social emotional learning. And even I believe we could use this in trauma-informed classrooms for for teachers and students. That if you start yes anding everything, and I'm gonna walk it through very slowly. So I'm in a scene when my scene partner says something, I'm gonna yes and that. But in that moment where I'm yesing and then finally listening, I'm gonna have an emotional reaction. That stimulus comes in. I have the choice. We talk in improv a lot about hey, make a different choice, make a new different choice. There's even a short form game called New Choice, where make a different choice in a real life institution or application. I get to choose how I'm going to respond. Maybe my son came to me and dad, I lost my phone on the roller coaster. My first instinct is to get upset and just blow steam off and and yell and shout. Yes, you lost your cell phone. And I'm gonna choose to be empathetic and supportive because it was very brave of you to come talk to me and tell me that you lost your cell phone.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Yeah, absolutely. And I I I do I do like that idea, um, you know, that game applying that game, um, different choice to or new choice to life. Because I I think too, we get, you know, going back to what you said, Joe, about, you know, we get programmed kind of in our institutions as we grow up and whatnot, um, messaging from our parents um and school and whatnot, that things are a certain way. And I think one of those things sometimes is this message of like, you know, you only have one choice and then that's it. Um, but even in the moment, even in the moment, if you have a bad reaction, I believe you can in that moment still make a new choice and go a different way and change, yeah, and change that because I think I know I've gotten myself stuck in that, where it's like I've reacted some way and then I don't like the way I reacted. And then I go, oh my God, I just burned that bridge with that person forever and always. And and it's not true, it's not true. And and more and more I do exercise that sort of freedom to go, oh hey, you know what? I did that sounded really weird. I did not mean that way, like, or whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

Well, and I think with a lot of people, there's there's ego playing into that, right? Like a lot of people want to make that new choice, but they don't. So here's where we're we're building this habit with this game. If you don't know what new choice is, it's basically you're just doing a scene, a regular scene, and then randomly somebody'll like ring a bell or or yell new choice, and you have to basically resay the line that you just said. So you have to make a new choice of how you're going to respond at any given time. And then the scene just keeps going, and you never know when you're gonna have to make a new choice. Um, but I think in in life you have your ego kind of in the way, and we're we're trained to to kind of save face a lot. But when you're you're doing improv and you're regularly playing this new choice game, it it does kind of change the the habits that you have. So then when you're in the real world, maybe you're willing to say, Oh, no, no, no, that's not right. I'm gonna make a new choice because you're no longer embarrassed or trying to save face from anything. You can just kind of swing into the next choice. Yeah, absolutely. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

And playing with that idea, uh, and I want to tangent just quickly back to something Katie said is like you were giving us an example and you said something wrong, and then you felt bad about it. Think about like how often the brain starts telling our our that story to us over and over and over again, right? And then you have to take time to what where's the truth in there? And is my brain telling me true stories, which more than often than not it's not so slowing down and finding that I call it the yes, golden yes and moment where we can choose makes life so much easier and effortless, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

Yeah, I totally agree. Um, I think this is a good time to um to transition into our history segment. Um, so I'm gonna go right into that. Um, I wanted to bring back, I think this is one of the first history segments I did back in season one, talking about Viola Spolin, um, known pretty much as the founder of improvised improvisation.

SPEAKER_03 38:34

What's that? The godmother of yes, the godmother of founding mother. Yeah, founding yeah, founding mother of improv.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

Yeah. So um I wanted to come back to her because we were talking to Joe today, and he himself is a coach. And I I don't know, after reading this, rereading this excerpt about Viola Spolin from from my favorite book, Improv Nation, um, you know, it I kind of was like, yeah, she was kind of the first life coach. Why not give her that title too? So um, so I wanna I want to just remind people of um Viola Spolin and who she was and what she is about. And then I'm gonna read a quick expert excerpt from this book, um, and then we'll we'll have a little discussion on it. So um, so first of all, um just to give a little background, Viola Spolin, she was a daughter of Russian immigrants, immigrants. And um, at 18 years old, she became interested in social work and enrolled at what was called Hull House, which was a community center that offered programs to Chicago's poor immigrant populations, which is going to be really important because later on um she basically the way in which she helped these children who oftentimes came from a variety of different cultural backgrounds and language backgrounds, so they really couldn't connect. And it's scary to be in another country where you don't know uh the language and the culture is completely different. So she challenged herself in um uh playing games with them, um, having them act out scenes, um, and getting them into that sort of play brain, um, and getting them out of their shell, getting them out of their heads, out of their fear, as we've talked about um in this episode. Um so so I like, and so what I'm about to share with you guys is this excerpt from Improvenation that kind of talks about her teaching style, because I was really kind of inspired by what they said about her teaching style. And then again, it reminded me of this idea of coaching, rather being a teacher, but being more of a coach. So um, let's see, it says here, first of all, um the games were really what the whole class was. And this is a quote from a former student of hers. Although Viola didn't call them theater games at the time, she called them improvisation. So there, she even coined the term. Um, divesting herself, this is not a quote, divesting herself of parental power and authority. Viola said it was the games, not the teacher, that instructed. That was important. Playing the role of teacher could introduce what she called approval/slash disapproval syndrome and inhibit spontaneity. Viola was careful then not to become a rulemaker, but rather a diagnostician, which I think is interesting, prescribing a specific game to each actor to address specific interpersonal block. Was a player struggling to relate physically with the others, have them play contact, in which the individual touches someone every time he says a line. Was a player thinking too much? Play mirror, mirror mirroring someone else, and you stop thinking about yourself. Quote, we were guinea pigs for the games, Paul Sand said. She was creating them on us with us. So I love that because um it touches on so much that we've already talked about with improv in terms of its therapeutic values. Um, but I also love that she was, you know, so mindful enough to sort of take herself out as that authoritarian role. Um, and also kind of um uh what do I want to say? Um she catered the games to what the children were having struggles with. So I'm wondering, Joe, if that if that comes up for you or what your thoughts are about, because you are also obviously a coach and um teacher or whatever you want to call it of improv.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

So I'll I'll take all those labels. Yes, it's I don't know that she I can't speak for her, but it seems to me from what I've read, trying to build community and get these immigrant children playing together and feeling comfortable. I've just in the past year, couple years really started analyzing what's happening in our brain and in our emotions underneath zip zapz up, just to bring back that example, if you will. And I found that once we start analyzing those and reflecting, taking time to reflect on how we feel in that moment, like I said, gives us that opportunity to feel comfortable in the uncomfortable and gain those skills, but also really slow down and pay attention in this incredibly fast paced world that we live in today.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

So 100% I see where she was like really taking off the mantle of I'm the teacher coach and coming down as. As an equal in my workshops and in my one-on-one coaching, that's what I do is I take off that mantle of there's there's not a hierarchy, we're in this together, and part of what we're gonna do together is establish these approaches, if you will. I don't want to say rules, not not a fan of that word, but right approaches of here's how we're going to work together. And we're gonna start off with understanding and buying into yes and then keep adding on to it. So in my coaching, I I integrate as much improv as my client is willing to do. And oftentimes that leads to, I really like the work you're doing. Can you come do some series of workshops in my business? Yes, and we'll work on that. Then often what I do is a needs analysis of what issue are you working on? Do you see as a something that needs addressed in your work environment? And then, as Viola did, I will choose very specific activities that we do with the idea of if a workshop suddenly turns, takes a left turn, I have a back pocket full of other activities that may supersede my lesson plans, because this is what I feel is important for this organization right here in the moment.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

Can you? I don't know if you can, but um, because I know you probably need to respect the privacy of your clients and whatnot, but I don't know if you can give a specific example of either an individual you worked with or even a group where um, you know, that sort of, I don't know what to call it, breakthrough moment happened, or is there an example you can give us of a certain game or activity you did or moment in the workshop where it was like people really were like, uh light bulbs?

SPEAKER_00 45:49

So I can think of uh at least one right offhand. This manager approached me and he felt his office space was dividing into silos. And so there were about 40, about 40 employees, and one department was really holding off another department, which was holding off another department, and there were a lot of uh negative feelings about the office space starting to develop and not good communication between the silos. Um, they often had like billing needed to go to this person, to that person, then then to another department before it got here. And oftentimes, maybe that comes in five minutes before closing. Here, I'm gonna drop this on you and I'm gonna leave. So this manager hired me to bring in and through a series of four workshops, so roughly 10 to 15 people each workshop. I got to see uh all 40 individuals, really did a lot of these activities. And even like the second week I was there, the group was so excited to get into the workshop because the people that had been in week one were doing all this goofy stuff, having fun together, and those silos went away. Six months later, I reached out just to like see how things were going. And my manager was like, The things are great, it's such a much more positive environment to come work for, and I'm looking forward to bringing you back. And this was in the middle of a pandemic, so I need to reach out to him again.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

So, would you say, sorry, uh would you say, was there any particular activity, or was it sort of just this whole experience that they were able to bond and see each other instead of sort of us and them? They they saw more as a a collaborative group.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

It was the it was the collaboration breaking down that us versus them feeling and getting to know each other in a low-stakes environment. And from what I heard, zip zapzop was quite a favorite one, seems to be a theme today. Yeah. Such to the point that people would walk around the office and just pass Billy Joe Jim Bob as he's typing zip, and then we would pass it on or send it in a message or something.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

That's so great. That's amazing. I love that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:05

Well, and I find you return to simplicity. I think a lot of times, in especially in business, you want you you want so much to prove prove how much of a professional you are that you you get you get out of that just like, okay, the simplistic way is the easiest way. And and then you get into your head about okay, I need to show them that I'm worth something, and then there's long emails, and and then you and then people are overwhelmed, and you get back and you just do zip zap zap, and that's all you have to do. It's all you have to do.

SPEAKER_01 48:36

Yeah, and I think there's there's it's a huge, I just took a clowning workshop. Um, and yeah, um, and we're gonna have the guy who did the workshop on in a in a few weeks here, but um from Chandiamani. But um he so and you know, and I've taken a few workshops, not a whole lot, but I really always enjoy improv workshops or comedy. I have done stand-up as well. So I've I've done some classes on that as well. And I just always find that laughter in itself, I mean, talking about simplicity is a bonding experience. Just to be silly and laugh gets us the act of laughter. We just are out of our head. Where as soon as you laugh, really genuinely laugh, no fake laughing people. Um, you know, uh it's just, and it's if you can share that with other people, it's to me, it's like boom, you're connected, you know.

SPEAKER_03 49:32

I remember right around probably March of 2020. Uh suddenly I wasn't around a whole lot of people laughing anymore. Oh, and I remember one time Katie and I uh I went over to her house and I stood on the other side of her porch because we weren't allowed to be together in the same room. Something happened around that time that yeah, what was that? And so I stood on one side of her porch and she stood on the other side of her porch and we just like talked and laughed from like using our projection voices, our stage voices, if you will. We just like laughed and talked to each other. And I remember, you know, after like three weeks of being cooped up and not talking to anybody, it was just this relief. Like when I went home, I just felt like all this like stress was off my shoulders just from sitting down and having an in-person laugh with somebody. So the power of laughter is huge.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

For real. We definitely need uh more productive play and humor in the workforce. And there are a number of authors out there that have written books about the importance of play.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Yeah, for sure. And I mean, since we brought up the pandemic, I mean, I know that you wrote a few blogs. I didn't read every single one, but I I did see that you had some, um, you had written some blogs about, you know, improv in the pandemic. I mean, can you talk a little bit about if there were, did you run workshops? I mean, it sounded like you did because you said this last one was uh the example you gave was during that time. But what what else can you talk tell us or talk to us about how the pandemic um influenced how you did improv, or did you use improv to help you yourself personally? Or, you know, what how did that affect what you did?

SPEAKER_00 51:29

I think the pandemic gave me time to slow down and and really think about a lot of the ideas that we expressed here today of like what's happening underneath that top layer of this improv activity. I also made a lot of connections that really have been beneficial and helpful, and get to sit down and bounce theories and ideas out this way through through Zoom, which is yeah, I remember when the pandemic first hit, and people are like, Well, we're meeting on Zoom, and there are people like I have no idea what that is. And now, and now it's just this is one of the many ways, many tools that we use. I led a led a number of workshops, had a couple other corporate workshops, um, started doing some coaching then and also participating in some workshops. And like I said, got to meet a lot of people involved in the applied improvisation network, as well as improvisers from all over the world.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

Awesome, awesome. Yeah, I mean, I think that in a way, obviously it was in it it inhibited a lot of um improvisers and people who do things related to improv or theater or any performing arts.

SPEAKER_03 52:35

But um it's interesting what you said about sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Oh, go ahead, go for it. You have a you have something to go for it.

SPEAKER_03 52:46

Um that's don't do that on the improv stage. Um we what you were saying is uh what you're saying was like you get to play with people that you never would have been able to play with before when you're when you're doing that. Like I got to take a class, you know, at Second City, I don't live anywhere near Chicago, but they all of a sudden started doing classes online and I was like, yep, I'm taking a second city course. Like, and it was, you know, it was good and it was fun. And I never would have had a chance to say, Oh yeah, I took a class at Second City, it was all on Zoom, but uh, but I did. And so I had that experience um because uh, you know, something bad happened. So like every time there's an experience that um is bad, you know, if you yes and it enough, um, something good will come out of it.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

We can we can find the good in there somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 53:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:43

Uh did you want to finish your thoughts since I so rudely cut you off? No, no, I was basically gonna, I was gonna say something very similar, like, you know, Zoom while the pandemic was isolating at the same time, Zoom kind of allow you allowed you to reach out to, you know, even international, or like you just said, um, Jess, like, you know, you took a class on Zoom at Second City that you would never maybe have considered doing. Um, so I think that's you know, talk about finding the positive. I mean, that's that's pretty cool. And and and and also just to add real quick, because I did do some improv um with my Reno improv players. We did do improv on Zoom, and so that was interesting because I mean there's always something new to live learn about improv. And Zoom made it so that, you know, you can't, you know, eye contact is not really a thing, you know, and or whatever, you know, communication is limited. Uh, you know, there's uh whatever, but there's other things that you can do in Zoom that you couldn't do, uh, you know, um, where you can manipulate your screen or you can, you know, put it at a different angle, or um we did we did things like uh turn off all the lights and and had that be uh, you know, the environment is affected. Um we did puppets, we did all sorts of silly things. Yeah, totally. It was like everybody got a stuffed animal, and then we had it was weird, and I don't know if it was very entertaining, but it was, you know, it was just like so. I think that that is um a lesson in improv in itself is that constantly why not? Yes, and why not? Why can't you do this? Oh, we have this thing that's limiting the way that we used to do it. Okay, well, let's whoop hit our microphone and see what that does to the scene.

SPEAKER_03 55:41

Well, I think you know, to that point, like the the importance of play is sometimes it's it's okay not to have an odd, like if it looks like crap on Zoom, it doesn't matter if everyone's just having fun. But I and especially for me, like I'm not a person that loves to perform like improv on stage. I like I like to have a class that I'm in or or just a jam group that I can just go and like let some steam off for the night. Like that's my thing. And so like it's totally fine, you know, every now and then just to remember, okay, we're just all adults playing pretend, like we say on our website, you know, we're just having fun here, and it's really important to get back to play.

SPEAKER_00 56:23

I think that's the importance of like that idea of yes anding is like it allowed us to pivot and change. And I know some improvisers that were like, Zoom, no, cut their hands, they wash their hands, I'm done. I don't know if they're doing anything anymore because sometimes I know improvisers feel I've been out of for six months, out of it for uh 12 months, however long. I don't that window of time that I used to block off and reserve has now been filled up with other things in my life. And I get that, yeah. But I enjoyed meeting new people online and I enjoyed let's play, let's let's figure out something new, let's try, let's try new choice. Does that work? Uh maybe it did, maybe it didn't. I don't know. But like both of you said, well, at least we're having a moment that we're giving ourselves permission to play and to have fun and to set all the weight of everything else aside just for a moment.

SPEAKER_03 57:14

Yeah. Uh real quick, I want to get to our next segment so we have time to chat a little bit after it. Um so our concept of the day is our next segment. And I think it's I think it's pretty uh in line with what we're talking about here. We might uh not to be redundant, but um I got this from uh hoopla uh hooplaimpro.com, their improv glossary. It says ignoring um is the concept of the day. Uh ignoring offers.

SPEAKER_01 57:46

I'm sorry, what'd you say? I wasn't I wasn't paying attention. I was ignoring you.

SPEAKER_03 57:51

Oh, um uh ignoring is the concept of the day. Oh uh ignoring offers made by other players either as a result of not listening to them, not thinking their offers are good enough, or subconscious bias to support some players but not others. The opposite of accepting and yes and um so basically, you know, you're entering a scene and you have an idea of how that scene is gonna go, um, but your scene partner ruins it by bringing in new information. Um and then and then you ignore them. Like you're it's literally you ignore what they say to kind of push your scene forward, and then something has to, something doesn't now doesn't make sense in that scene. Um, that's the concept of the day. Um, how do you experience this in your workshops?

SPEAKER_00 58:43

Uh sometimes it's with the not being present, uh, other times it's denials. And one of the things that's really hardest when we get to scene work is going one line at a time and instead of planning out and thinking I'm gonna say this line, it's gonna be the funniest line. Yeah, I got a laugh, but it that joke totally ended and crushed the scene. So I really emphasize of like, let's just slow down, listen to what our scene partner is saying. Oftentimes there's another activity with yes and of my scene partner will say a line. I have to say the last two, three words of the sentence that they just said, then physically say yes and and build on that. It's very contrived and can be challenging to do because it feels so awkward. However, I'm pushing that idea of like slow down, listen.

SPEAKER_01 59:45

We I mean, oh sorry.

SPEAKER_00 59:46

I was just gonna say, and sometimes listening is not necessarily listening with our ears, but listening to body language, listening to tone, listening with our whole body. So that's another component that I really emphasize in my workshops.

SPEAKER_03 59:58

You know, we had that discussion the other day, uh, Katie and I did about how different the podcast is this year, because it's all on Zoom this year. Uh, whereas last year we were in an actual physical studio and we were talking about how it's it's a little bit harder to do it this way. Uh, well, the sound's better because Zoom has a better sound sound quality than I did. But on the other hand, I can't, I'm not uh physically reacting to people. It's more just like a 2D picture in their face, and I can't like kind of off-screen like give signals, okay, we need to move on to the next segment or something like that, because it's all um it's all being recorded and everybody can see, you know, every body language thing that I do. So it feels different. Um, and body language is such a huge thing, and sometimes that ignoring can be to body language, not just necessarily what's being said. I've I know I've experienced that in in scenes where I'm acting like, you know, super sad, and the other person comes in just super happy and just totally ignores that I I had a negative emotion, and then just like, okay, I guess I'm gonna yes and you and just pretend I wasn't totally sad when the scene started. Um, but yeah, it's the body language is super, it's not just ignoring words, it's also body language.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:20

Yeah, I I um yeah, I hear that, Jess. And I I definitely um that exercise, Joe, that you mentioned of saying what your scene partner just said and then saying yes, and I mean, I the improv uh troupe that I'm in currently, I mean, and we've been together for a while. Um, I mean, we still do that sometimes because you just constantly sometimes need that reminder of like, you know, um listening. I know it seems simple, but I think that is sometimes what is a little bit contradictory about improv. And I think it's also the one of the best things about improv is that you obviously you are it's about creating things in the moment. So you have to have ideas, you have to choose, you have to make choices, but at the same time, you have to you have to also yield to your partner. So it's finding that balance of input versus output and and sort of um finding a way to support each other. And I it's not easy to do. I mean, I don't know, um I think it's it's and you know, everybody has a different, but I think this concept of ignoring is important to think about because um in all aspects. And I'm also wondering, too, like, how does this apply to the real world? I mean, I'm thinking of something like, you know, in the business world, like networking, for example. And when you're at a networking event, um, it's about exchanging ideas, but it's also about listening to others, other people's ideas and finding a connection that you might have with that person. So I'm wondering if you have anything, or I don't know if you've done that's come up for you in the workshops, but like in terms of communication, let's just say that. What is it that you can do in the so-called real world?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:23

I haven't had it come up in workshops yet. It's it's so important, even if like a small little idea that's somewhat ignored, can shut down communication. Going back to our our game that we played earlier, we saw how yes but just really slowed us down. And I was mentioning that I was just feeling like I gotta shut down. Think about an organization that if hey, I have an idea, but it gets ignored or yes butted. Maybe I don't have any more ideas.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:59

Or maybe I do, but I'm not feeling safe enough to share them because the first one I threw out there got ignored, that I'm not gonna bother anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:08

Maybe that person has this idea is a million-dollar idea. We will never know because it was ignored.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:16

So you're really setting the tone. And I think back when I was in the classroom and I saw teachers, fellow teachers do this occasionally that one student says one thing, and it's the first time the student has been brave or bold enough to say to try to answer a question, no, you're wrong. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:37

And that student never speaks up in that class ever again, which is unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:41

Right. Yeah. And I I definitely do, I mean, just to kind of add to that too, like I'm thinking about all those ideas, you know, um, big and small, that don't get out because you know, I an idea could just start as, you know, a ball of clay, you know, metaphorically. And and if it's if it's not heard, obviously it'll will just remain a ball of clay and maybe dry up and you know, whatever, turn to dust. But but then the idea of like if it is listened to, if it is heard, then somebody can say, oh, yes. And what about what if we did this? Oh yeah, and then we could do this, and that building, just like you do in a scene, right, with your scene partner. It's about building off of this small idea or in improv, it's it could start with a gesture, it could start like you said, Jess, it could start with an emotion, it could start with one word, it could start with anything, and then you start to build it into something that could potentially be an incredible thing, you know? So I really like that idea. Don't you?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

I certainly do. Yes, and meet people.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:05

We just got a few a few minutes left. I did want to ask you about one other thing, uh, because I promised it on the website. Um, in your one-on-one coaching, uh, somewhere I read that you do some stuff like relationship-wise. Um, could you explain a little bit how improv plays into personal relationships?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:26

Once you build that muscle, that yes and muscle and that listening component, I think everything else really falls into place. We slow down to take time to listen to uh our scene partners. Let's slow down and treat everybody as our scene partner, whether it's your spouse or a child or a father. It also helps us with empathy because I can slow down and instead of being sympathetic or pushing you away, maybe you need somebody to just sit there with you. And because I've done all this improv experience and I see the emotions that are coming out of you and in that moment, I can set aside everything that I need to be and just be there and be empathetic for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:15

Yeah, right. So say, like in your relationship, you have different communication styles, maybe just are you asking for a friend, Jess? Or asking for a friend. Yeah, like say say uh, you know, he's from Mars and and I'm from the I mean very common problem, right? Right. And we're communicating differently. You know, I'm I'm guessing, you know, the yes and is that the solution to all this, you know, communication where we're trying to analyze everything and really it's like zip zap zab, it's really just that simple.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:50

You just need to slow down, listen, and then yes and yeah, I don't want to say that's the solution for everything, but I believe it's a solution for a lot of issues and problems. I had a student tell me just the other day that in her family, she always is always quick to default to angry, angry, angry. And in fact, that's the way a lot of her family is. And so they would she would come home from classes or from work and not necessarily get into arguments or fights, but it would just be battle, battle, battle, battle. She said to me that she started implementing yes and and just listening. And yeah, that person said something that I could get mad about, and I'm gonna choose something else. And she says, for her personally, it's made her life a lot lighter. And I think the family dynamics are starting to change some. Yeah, so it's influencing what I'd read in between her words.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:49

It sounds like it's influencing, kind of like what I was talking about with my example. It's influencing her family to be maybe more positive too, because maybe they feel heard or not. Because I do, I mean, I think that's a lot of people have, you know, anger is you know, more of a prideful response. Um, and so it's a safer response for a lot of people to express their fear or their sadness. So just you know, as Dr. Katie, well, just kidding, I'm not a doctor. I'm totally I think that's gonna go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:20

I was gonna say, and really anger is one of the ways that our brain is defending ourselves, which is what it's programmed to do, right? Because it's gonna react instantly. So we're just gonna slow down and say, Okay, brain, I hear you. Yeah, gonna react differently.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:35

So yeah, and I think that I think you can uh say also, you know, you can call it um that protection, but I think that's the ego too, where it's like, you know, which in my opinion is also that the ego is the thing that's always trying to protect you. And so it's like I I love that. And I had a my actually my stand-up comedy teacher would always say that, you know, because people battle with that stage fright, you know, for stand-up, because it's just you. So she would always tell us, you know, just have a little conversation with your ego and say thank you so much for your concern and trying to protect me, but I got this. I'm gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:15

You know, so of course it can happen. Yeah. Well, uh, Joe, where can people uh find you? This is where you can shamelessly plug whatever you want. Where can people find you on the internet? Or is there anything else you would like us to share with the audience?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:33

Um, you can find me at my website, which is inspiremerv.com. That's inspiremerv.com. I'm also available on Facebook at inspire me mrv or Joe Van Hackey. Um and LinkedIn is then where I'm also fairly active.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:50

Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much, Joe Van Hackey. I hope I said your name finally right at the end.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:58

Yay, we got it after so many tries.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:00

Yay! Um, no, I've really I've really enjoyed the discussion and uh thanks so much for taking the time out to uh join us on For the Love of Emperor.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:09

Thank you for allowing me to be a guest. It's been an honor and a pleasure, and I had a lot of fun today.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:13

Yay! Thanks so much.