We can know we are loved and still not be able to let it in. The gap between believing something and feeling it in the body is not a faith problem — it's a physiological one.

In this second conversation with Aundi Kolber, Michael and Julianne press deeper into what it actually takes to change: why being loved is not just a comfort but a biological prerequisite for growth, why asking someone to change before they feel safe is, in Aundi's word, cruel, and what it means to come home to yourself rather than keep fleeing from what hurts. Aundi also draws a line between the shame that keeps us stuck and the compassion that actually moves us — and why God is calling us home, not calling us out.

This is a rebroadcast of one of the most-listened-to conversations in the show's ten-year history.

Aundi Kolber is a licensed therapist and author of Try Softer: A Fresh Approach to Move Us Out of Anxiety, Stress, and Survival and Into a Life of Connection and Joy.

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