The Art of Longevity Season 6, Episode 7: Bush, with Gavin Rossdale

Gavin Rossdale doesn’t think that Bush's longevity story in the music business as high drama - even though they have had their share of industry shenanigans, let-downs and, for nearly eight years, a split, until the band reformed in 2010. 

“It's the inevitability - bands might choose to settle for where they’re at. It might be difficult to go from arenas to clubs, but bands have to follow their hearts. And if you don’t, what else are you gonna do anyway”.

He hasn't settled for anything like that for Bush, a band that was back at number 1 of the Billboard rock charts as we spoke. Of course, the band’s career is unusual in that this is a British band that made it big in America - but never found anything like as much success in their native UK. Funny when you think about the history of UK bands that have tried to break America - and almost broken themselves in doing so.

As the band is about to embark on a major US tour we talk about what happens in preparation, which is a lot more than meets the eye. Getting in the right headspace is vital, and not always easy. To say that Gavin manages his own contradictions is an understatement. On the one hand, Bush and Rossdale's longevity has brought with it a clarity and confidence. On the other hand, all the insecurities of the classic creative mind remain at work.

"I don’t have regrets but I reflect on those moments to sharpen my mind going forward. The later part of my career, the youthful ignorance has gone and the horizon is perfectly visible, therefore it hones and sharpens my resolve”.

“I’m never content with what I do. I have a very strange process of self doubt and imposter syndrome until something good breaks through - and then I think, “for fucks sake shut-up”, and then I break through it”.

Long and successful careers in rock bands are not linear processes, nor are they straightforward to handle, psychologically. But Gavin Rossdale has this longevity thing sorted.

Transcript

Gavin Rossdale, Bush: 2:28

in reverse order? I'm in Los Angeles and I'm Fair to middling getting better.

Keith Jopling: 2:33

Are you recovering from something?

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 2:35

Yeah, life, you know, I've got three kids, four kids, one's an adult with three kids that are like, barely can't do anything without me to help them to get to that point. And, and try to do work and tour and whenever I go on tour, which I'm about to imminently I'm in, like distress for last couple of weeks. So you know, you know, as a parent, I mean, it's like we do we do a lot better than preparing and sort of unspoken unsaid things that just sort of somehow fill the day. And so whenever a while on tour, the days are really challenging. And then the nights are like the kind of go fishing of always sort of like, oh, that's a nice, right like you love it again. This is amazing, this amazing time. And you know, it's really healthy to work and connect with such a tight bunch of people as I have in my band and unit for so many years.

Keith Jopling: 3:31

Do you take any of your kids on tour?

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 3:34

Yeah, in the summer, in the summer when I can, I mean, I've done really take them out of school too much. Except for like fun days out. But but for extended tours, I try and be I have in the summer, and then they kind of bust and they come for a few weeks at a time is brilliant is fucking chaos, but it's brilliant. So

Keith Jopling: 3:54

you're about to do another tour. I know you recently completed the tour with Allison chains sort of late last year. So it must feel great to be back playing live and all of that. But what goes into the preparation of a tour as you get closer to it, just you know, because a lot of us don't really know what goes on behind the scenes just talk us through it.

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 4:17

Well, at this point, I've been doing a lot of reflecting on all the the catalog. And for this tool, for example is talking through I'm doing now for the art spider tools was about to kick off in February, in North America. And that's the process is like going through all the records and taking enough for the new songs. Enough of you know, the older songs, songs, people know people like the band, you know, the sort of skeleton, like the Christmas tree of songs you got to do is put in the kind of ones that satisfy the sort of new songs. And it's like a just event diagram of finding the way for people not not to be like for to blow people away, like change it, if you're not like blowing people away, like moving them in some way in the show doesn't make sense. So you know, now we're going through all that with doing the steps and then making it nice and doing some influence and just building the building the show up so that it has a little bit more, stays grand. So basically, so it's about preparing the music outside and just is then going to rehearse for a few days, five days, and we just played in Vegas. And even though I sound like I'm really, really, possibly quite together on this side, I am on this, we played New Year's Eve couple shows that we hadn't played for two months as the total reimbursed. It was brilliant, was really good fun. So this is a bit more preparation and just trying to push it and do something interesting. You know, you see so many shows that are really just brilliantly done. And I got a chance to work with a new designer. And I had nearly worked with him before his song for service delay. And this guy's Michael schwannoma. And he so we took him for a while about that. So that's the preparation going into that of the stress of our setlist I write out 31 songs and cut them up and do switches and orders and sort of permutations and arguments about it for again. So just that and then and then just like like, as far as getting stuff together to think about what to wear or clothes to take. And sometimes you understand that you're not into the last tour, it just was too much going on and survive on tour, I literally have chosen, like totally everything wrong. Really, as I mentioned my wardrobe. I got let's get to play shows like it's terrible, all this stuff. And it doesn't all it doesn't really matter about a certain is matters that you are really feeling comfortable and enough self up like that. So it's that I mean, we just want to figure out fill fill in the right space. And the main thing is sort of like, guilt and fear and dislike, like leaving here again, and sort of like that. But it's just I've always thought that that's the sort of be it's like beautiful in a way because it's like, it's such an incredible life that has to come with, there's no way that it can just be this life where it's just like Instagram jets and like quick stops in Miami for a dip in the pool. This is like if you asked about the road, that whole entity, that whole touring across the board, there's a lot of people with quiet, challenged and broken lives away from this because of the toll. Obviously, it's some great success stories of marriages the last few years, but I'm talking about the crew and I sit with the drivers that has been driving married 30 years and driving. And they've been on tour, they just, that's their job, right? That was like that he likes to wait forever, like nine months a year and have a family. Like it's wild blows me away. It's

Keith Jopling: 8:07

a big sacrifice. And as you said, just hearing you kind of talk us through that. There is a huge amount to it in terms of preparation, but also just what it does to the psyche.

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 8:20

Yeah, super disruptive, but it's, it's what keeps me going is or keeps me like, each individual shirt could be anywhere. It could be like, you know, I mean, it could be leads, or it could be Ottawa, you know, it's like, people are affected. But you know, whether you think of any bad figure on this show, and they bought a ticket and they're like, wearing the shirt, they weren't that bad means so much to them. And it gets great. Like, it's great meaning I don't know, whether it's like ego bound, or you know, or like the idea that it's really good to give meaning to give value to your life. So you have a sense of inner peace as opposed to sort of struggling to not have to express yourself clearly enough in whatever your world is, you know, you didn't quite take that jump, you know, I waited a long time I was really tenacious and I'm half Scottish and McGregor so I was put it down to being like, I've always said that I'm just like a Scottish drunk like, you would not be down but you have to kill me because I just don't stop and I almost want to stop sometimes. doing too much on my character is like sort of quite trying to do all this and do that and it's actually creating a lot of anxiety but I can't work out I mean, I mean, the washing machine of like different other work anxieties and leaving home.

Keith Jopling: 9:50

The arts of longevity is presented with Bowers and Wilkins, the revered British Premium Audio brand, Bowers and Wilkins make some of the world's finest audio A products from the iconic 800 series loudspeakers trusted by Abbey Road Studios for over 40 years to the flagship px eight wireless headphones. This is music as the artist intended you to hear it. They say these are the things we don't appreciate as fans in the crowd. And over think about this. How do artists sleep after a show, particularly in a rock show that's full on. And you're the frontman. So you, and you're an energetic frontman as well as you putting all that into it. So you're buzzing for hours afterwards? Right? Yeah, that's brilliant. How do you come down though,

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 10:39

we've done this before we're about to do we will be on. We've got an old friend of ours driving us. And we love him. We've proven for years, and we've got a great bus. And we just get on and everybody has this sort of comfort. And we have a central manager that for 1012 years or something. And she's just classy. So it's not they've never you know, it's she's she she maintains the standards. And it's just fun. And we just like hanging out. You're buzzing for hours, he just sit up and have a few glasses of wine or whatever you want to have. You know, that's it. Everyone has like Jack Daniels wanted John's beer, Chris mood after the show so much. We could be tequila or it could be like, a tea animal and my throat is like, just bursting on tours. The other funny part is, it's not it's not doom and gloom. But we have completely come out on tour, the you know, come a friend would come visit for like, four days. And they just go nuts. Like they like three nights running forward by the fifth night. And you're like about to go on stage. You're coming out? Yeah, just just be beat up on up because you've got to have you got to pace yourself. You know?

Keith Jopling: 11:57

Yeah, you got a job to do? Absolutely.

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 12:00

It's not like seeing getting bashed, like we're 20s in our 20s You know, but so, but it's just, it's, it's the best bit.

Keith Jopling: 12:10

But it sounds like you're taking a lot of responsibility on and particularly, you know, you say when we the audience attend the show, particularly for a band we love Yeah, we want it to do things to us. We want we want it to help us transcend you know, our day to day lives is pretty much a responsibility of the guys up there on stage you know. Yeah, and

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 12:32

I think that's why it's really important. Personally, I the whole setlist the whole flow of the show, obviously, I mean, everything you do every single person that's in our whole world, it's just it's just like part of the head of an arrow trying to sort of penetrate people's like, you get lost in the music. So I think all that sort of tension and anxiety that comes along with touring. I mean, you just have to watch oh my god, the most brutal one of that is watching the Pixies. Quiet loud. That's really like, Joey Santiago is gonna find to his fairies because he just like, oh my god, we're all losers, you know, this whole thing of like, I have a good day. Oh,

Keith Jopling: 13:14

I wanted to ask you about this because the kind of prevailing wisdom in the industry for years has been like, as artists don't make a lot of money from recordings these days. They go out on tour, and everything's just, you know, everything smelling roses, that's where you make the cast. That's where you live the life but just recently, you know, it's really come out that it's not quite like that, you know, there's blood in the water touring.

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 13:37

Oh, my God, the middle to lower tier bands, you know, with petrol prices was was really fucks me off. It's so fucking cynical. And it really feels like I don't I feel like the woeful artist, but it's just like, and I'm talking on behalf of everyone, you know, everyone who's in bands, or singers or artists, whether we've all lost out in the pandemic. And as you go down to the middle, lower, it got harder and harder, obviously, right? If there was a little bit of buffer versus the top bands, it didn't matter, you know, this sort of headlined festivals. So massive bands didn't really have a system of a doubt, but it hurt bands who just come in and it's just so everyone was in the same position. But then when they hiked the prices up everything because they'd been in this recession is like well, we the people that are buying this we also went through shit. So where are we supposed to get the your 20 was an extra that it doesn't make any sense? Like we're all fuckin we just like come up slowly. Like why are you waiting? Like was it twice as expensive? We do that. That's crippling for bands. We're finding that with bands to open for us. We had a great band of interest for example. Really fantastic band. I probably shouldn't say the name in case because it would might offend but the truth is, is really decent band great people. All great players, and players on jazz, but they've really caught up. And they want to come out with a bunch of these dates. And because they're single, sort of faded, or didn't quite, I mean, they didn't get any sauce for was receded rescinded. So they could have played to a lot of people. But I suppose it's sort of for them is still speculative for the label, and they just failed it, that's they just take their money, they might smell that and spin around the band that did make those shots, you know, so, so come through, and this band deserves to be honest, is not, you know, and that they relied on the tools for obviously, we pay them. But you also, you know, we have a whole team of people that we also want paces that you know, as, as difficult, as bad as everyone with a charge is more anyone, whoever we are, wherever you do, when people are trying to just race back to profitability, and to bash up the prices, because the cost of the cost of that thing is just so cynical, because I don't know anyone who's particularly only in the top people earning through it, you know, like, that's the sort of more than met less than 1%. All the billionaires, all that stuff, obviously, it's like, famously, every money thrown at the rest of us were like, Oh, fuck. So it is a bit of a dance for that and younger, bad. It's, it's terrible, sort of sad.

Keith Jopling: 16:27

It's going to be a really interesting and tough couple of years, I think, tumultuous couple of years. Because I think, you know, we've all been talking about how we need to revisit the recorded model, you know, the streaming model, but now we're having the same conversation about live. So we'll see where it goes. On this tour coming up. And you were talking about curating the setlist? Because you've had this relatively recent change in sound. So it feels like with the art of survival, and then before that became them, you've got this heavier sound, and presumably that's going to be front loaded on the monitor or you want to play more of those new songs. I'm just intrigued by how much he Are you going to pay attention to the audience's response to those new songs? And does it change the nature of a bush show? Because your sound has definitely changed across those two records?

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 17:17

Yeah, 100% I mean, I think it was, it was unnecessary evolution. For me personally, don't really. I just know that for years whenever we played festivals or wherever we played, if we felt slightly vulnerable, we would cherry pick off of all the records were always there like one or two teaching songs and sort of Riffey and like but like wow, that's a cool way of lessons cool, but like we're more alternative and it was like a different sound. My ear always loved metal. The riffs like Suffern sure that one of my favorite better but the singing never appealed to me, you know, I mean, so So couldn't connect with him I was singing about as a kid like I'm much preferred. Bally Germans like all the all the benefit lots. Not so much a heavy metal band. But I really loved all the riffs of stuff and then all the underground and the post punk because I like there's a mixture from the punk went into the you know, the pill and, you know, the post punk stuff and all that I liked all of that. What I like about the Riffey in the metal and the heavier sound? Is it still really to me? It's just head bobbing music. For some reason I got chained to guitars. You know, I did one record in my life or somewhere where I didn't have guitars and was like, oh, there's no guitars. Sounds like I think because of cherry picking the songs are saying that it does inspire me. So I will just fucking do do record like that, you know, and that's what's that's what is exciting. Like, I get excited in my studio and I'm doing new songs. Now. We're working on some new songs. Because there's talk of a greatest hits next year, another record later in the year that will keep momentum. So I was in the studio in writing. And it's like a muscle so gotta keep doing it. And it's when I start again, it's always a bit like the pants and everything around the studio and I'll go slow and then I do another one about the technical therns does okay. And I go back and either throw out the first one we'll try and fix what it was you know, cuz you don't even that many songs I haven't new record in like, a month. But the end do like eight songs. Nine songs is plenty. Like I think they like 12 It's too much.

Keith Jopling: 19:35

Yeah, I think it's it's gone back to albums have gone lean again. You know, because I think vinyl essentially I think it's great. Yeah, and

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 19:43

that's cool. That's cool. You know what? Being brief is good. I have a new song. This is like three minutes dead. Stop perfect. Like, be brief. You know? You got to hear what's going on. And I don't know. There's I'm elongating so upset, but I'm just trying to make it take time. For people on a journey, but it's fun to do music like that. I also intend to rerecord a song from a band I did call Institute in 2005. And I did the side project one band. I don't know if you've heard of it Institute. Yeah, with crosstrainer. Yeah. Because they're really proud of the record, we did a good job on it. Right. Great job. And so, whereas, you know, does he know about all these bands growing up and see, like Dylan, or, you know, he'd record the same song or like, three records? Yeah. And I was like, why am I why why? Why the songs gonna lay dormant and go to sleep forever. But I think of new ones shiny was literally 3500 People know about Institute. So it's like, so I thought that'd be great. Do a song from that, and then bang. But it's better to have the turnover and consistency I think, are probably benefit.

Keith Jopling: 21:00

Thanks for listening to the art of longevity. I hope you're enjoying the conversation so far. Please take a moment to rate the show, leave a review on Apple podcasts if that's where you're listening and do spread the word. Also, you can sign up via the songs familia web page for our newsletter, artwork, and much more. Back to the conversation. I love this new direction actually. And it seems to have gone down really well as well. You've had a really good reception to the art of survival, even in the UK. And then I read a, I think a really good review in The Telegraph of all places for the new album. So were there any specific influences? Now on that decision to go metal? Or are you harking back to, you know, the Black Sabbath or the bands of old, Tommy through the new and old aspects,

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 21:54

it really is just a case of the combination of all of it really, I mean, you know, slipping up, I think, a really just a fantastic band, you know, my thing music, you know, Mastodon and so for me, and just, it's just what inspires me is kind of literally in one ear, and then it just sits around and, and I can never be anything like that there's so heavy Slipknot, that it can be that heavy. But what it is, is the chimneys and you know what I saw the Guidance System of a Down when I played with them in the Hollywood Bowl. It was like, that's, that's Dropsy shooting.

Keith Jopling: 22:36

Yeah, system of doubt, of course, haven't made any records for a while

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 22:42

now. But what I mean is that you go into these worlds, and really what it is just, I mean, it's good to have different periods of your life, you know, of where you're at. And it sort of makes sense to do this, you know, feels it feels sort of natural to have fun with it, just to be exciting, because in a way it's I'm way, it's completely counterintuitive, because it should say, maybe you shouldn't be sort of doing some kind of mellow acoustic thing. But I love doing that stuff sometimes, but we feel like we have momentum and it's a lot of really good sort of energy around the records like Linden got fantastic reviews, the survival and responses for the kingdom. So it was weird because we there's basically it splits down to I think it's about nine songs between the artist Bible and the kingdom. And then eight songs from the other from the history of the band and that kind of things you can't not play songs you can't not play Of course another plan so that's it. I didn't seem like it's just funny because I'm having this tussle you know, is it better to play a swallowed that people know? Or is it better to play a song with like more intensity that keeps us in the vein we go because we breathe and swallow and it's like really like, wow, there's a really different kind of song very alternative song. So we'll see, you know, we haven't thinking about rethinking it.

Keith Jopling: 24:13

It's interesting because yeah, bands like the band, you've mentioned the slipknot, the mastodons the system of downs I've always been a rock fan but they felt like a step too far for me that was bands when I've tried them out. But I think what you've done is you've taken that sound and that influence you've made it accessible.

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 24:31

It's mainly my voice my approach on it, you know, those guys I mean, like Corys incredible singer, I mean, you know or how they sing. But everyone's you know, you got to sing the way you sing know yourself and and so I just sort of appropriate itself on the music that I made, but to sort of find a way in you know, wait till when I commit to a part on a piece of music, like a chorus or a boat or something, you know, it's always within my aimed in reference to its function. And it's like, we talked about, you know, the feeling, you know, provoking people provoking people's emotions, you know, certain things that you see, now we're gonna provoke a certain response. And, you know, you got lots of different emotions that you can hit with a different, you know, everything's gonna have different requirements.

Keith Jopling: 25:22

Along those lines taught me a little bit through kiss me on there, because you really do throw your voice there. I'm thinking of the first line of the chorus, the save me now, which is, you know, you're you're really taking that note up, you're bending the note, and haven't heard you do that much before? Is that the kind of thing you're talking about here?

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 25:44

Well, no, I mean, I mean, for example, for that, that was a fun thing. I sang that in the studio. I was with Tyler and Tyler, and you know, those things just come to you. But it's nice. I've done it a few times, we just throw it to the floor. I like throwing a bit because you really, you know, it's a bit of a bit of like, head voice and, and I should do more of it. I'd be trying to get better at it. To learn that, you know, staying in those things in certain places. Really amazing. I love his voice where it goes crazy that that thing. And I can sing in there. But it's never do on record. So I just passed through certain notes. And what am I doing singing? I haven't found a way to make myself sound any good at it yet. So I haven't done it as soon as I I mean, I do 1000 years on survival.

Keith Jopling: 26:34

Yeah, comes across really well. It's really good stuff. So of survival, it seems like a good time to get you on the show art of longevity feels like we're in the same headspace. A little bit, how much did you intend it to be? A Survival record what

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 26:51

brought that on? It was 1,000% testament of survival. On a personal level, there was some devastating predicament that was in there, I never really spoke about because it just like outweigh the record too much. But safe to say that. I think that to go through a lot like that. And I think that I was I was surrounded by millions of people that went through terrible times. I mean, if you just consider that means people die, that means business people that remained family members who suffered and are suffering. So. So we felt this kind of it didn't make me feel special to go through and how it just made me feel a human. And I just figured that that was what literally everyone was going through because you could see it. And that was extraordinary scenes that we seem to have. So I don't know just recovered from but don't you remember when people couldn't see loved ones and they had to drop them off or hospitals for them to go die was like watching that. And watching a devastation. Watching all these like, I live in America. Like there's like hundreds of shootings, it's just like, so what I mean is that there's terrible people that have had to endure, and continue to endure. And throughout their life, you know, you have to ensure there's great suffering, there's great joy, and it's not a I'm not a morning person at all, but I'm all about the fun.

Keith Jopling: 28:26

It's really interesting hearing you talk about that, because I was thinking we have kind of quickly forgotten the trauma of the pandemic, partly because we've come we've come out of it into a new trauma. You know, we've there's the huge eco concerns the wars going on. There's the cost of living crisis, and it, it feels like there's the record is a bit of a talisman to put on to kind of go out and face the world. And I think it's good in that in those terms. But I was interested in your point of view. You say you're a fun guy, I get that. But Are you an optimist as well? Where's the future for you?

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 29:03

You have to be an optimist. I mean, there's, I think that it's, it's incredible. I mean, in spite of all these challenges that are going on from the accusations of the kind of mind control of the people here to the climate. But there are things that will always emerge and you know, technology, the kind of the ground we're covering in, in understanding, furthering in science, in medicine, in psychology is a brilliant time for that. There's never been more access for people to express that. Mental Health. I mean, when we had it when we were kids, I mean like, you know, I had a really traumatic childhood, like traumatic divorce and just living my dad. That's it the rest of my life. You know, that's true. massacre 12 No one ever said to me, you're right. You want to go on? You're on a soldier. And it's like, come on, you know why fighting at school? Why being like rowdy, why don't want to go to school, but just that simple fact leave in a sort of a 12 year old kid to try and vague understanding. Now, this was a lot. So it's like, that was a lot. Now it's not the case at all. No, it's not. It's not perfect or great. And there's still loads of problems. But the simple fact that there's so many suicides, but what we need to be talking about is there are so many suicides, and therefore we have to have all these forms of support and opportunities for people to get help. And I think that it's obviously to these discussions that that comes along. And so, in many ways, the world's better than ever.

Keith Jopling: 30:51

You're an optimist that good luck. Yeah. Yeah.

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 30:55

Oh, it's nothing worse than asking your neighbor to send him music now. Just I'll never do it. I'll never do it. I'll never be that person X current system, always great things to add. And then finally, you know, weirdly enough, artistically creatively, the worst times per usually produce the greatest of artists in the most difficult circumstances, provoke people into doing that. I mean, you know, that whole thing more than machines or girls, you're in control, not the government, you know, I was like, why is that people should be putting that songs in music, it should be sort of a communal message of like, well,

Keith Jopling: 31:29

you know, I think that's really interesting, because that manifesting, right, I mean, you know, there's I don't think there has been a better time for some of the female artists in the music world. You know, from the big names like the Billy Eilish is and the Taylor Swift to everybody else who's doing, you know, some more alternative stuff. The art of longevity is brought to you by the song simile. That's me, working with Project melody and audio culture. It's recorded at the cube. London's first member studio for content creators, currently based in West London cube will be opening a second site in Canary Wharf in January 2023. Our cover art is by an MIT Clarke, and original music for the podcast is by the neoclassical composer and artist Andrew James Johnson. I wanted to go back to the early days. So the art of longevity, that kind of premise is the career arc of bands, which, according to Brett Anderson, is it's grimly predictable. You've got the struggle, the stratospheric rise to the top, the disintegration and then a renaissance. How much of that curve? Have you seen in bush over 2530 years?

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 32:51

I think Liza Minnelli, you know, who said it? Best, like a career is just a series of complex. But yeah, breasts right? You know, of course, as you can extend certain bands have different times as I'm Bob as don't get too successful as has been in its, you know, he was an Elvis space. But it's inevitable, isn't it? I mean, it's the inevitability of the long term relationship. And if you stick at it, and it has all the, you know, the symmetry may change, or the duration of every step, bounces sort of, in a funny way, often chooses to just not go away, you know, it's sort of cheeses settled, where they're, and they're sort of become working musicians. And there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, what's, it's probably difficult if you've been, you know, playing, sold out, arena shows, and they've been playing clubs again, that's probably difficult. But that, you know, it's just like, people just follow their hearts. And if you don't do by the way, once you disintegrate, what are you going to do? Anyway?

Keith Jopling: 34:00

Your taste of that stratospheric rise to the top really interests me because obviously, everybody knows there's an unusual story about Bush, you're a British band who got big over there. I'm interested in that experience, because I've spoken to so many bands like suede on this show, of course, because it was Brett's inspiration, but they couldn't break America. On the other hand, you did it the other way around. So to some extent that stratospheric rise to the top is writ large because you did it in big bad America. And

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 34:31

I just had number one late last week, so hopefully I didn't get too far down. But I didn't disintegrate. I just I just changed like to like some horsemen left or some possible arrived in.

Keith Jopling: 34:50

Yeah. And you had that decompression, of course, when the band split for, you know, eight years or so.

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 34:57

Yeah, it's like seven years, seven years. It was this was eight years of like the length of the Beatles entire career. That's why the Institute into the solo record, but I didn't like it. And that is a funny how, who gives a fuck what you like we've done like, that's how life is. That's what happened. You don't mean so many things about my career and life, I think about a lot. If I let myself you know how I could have done this different or not, like so much regret as like wistful moments that I kind of let go of or lost, embrace enough, you know, and that's not to sit in, in the sense of loss, it's more to sort of sharpen my mind going forward of like, the how to really learn my lesson about things. I didn't pursue people I didn't pursuing people I did people I believed in turnout and fucking, you know, betrayed me, and all those kind of things like, Okay, that's interesting, your account. And I should have done that. And what you learned for me creatively, you know, I think it's because of it obviously, in the later part of my career, youthful ignorance has gone and the horizon is, is perfectly visible, and, you know, therefore, it should and it does for me to hone and sharpen my resolve and you know, I'm just better at it now. Like I funny, sometimes I hit songs. It's really cool things about it, but I remember I know who I was when I was writing them and how I got it together. But then I in in certain ways, I still have a sense of bit more comfort. Now. Was

Keith Jopling: 36:47

there a stage where you realize that was it getting into your 50s? Was it a particular album, when did you realize you've kind of crossed the Rubicon and you thought, Okay, I'm more relaxed, I'm more contented in what I'm doing. I'm

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 37:02

just gonna carry on and I'm gonna do what I want. Well, I mean, I gotta stress I've never contended what I'm doing a bit, I have a very strange process of like, self doubt and sort of impostor syndrome and fear and self loathing. It's almost crippling until like something good breaks through and I have a fucksakes Shut up. So I do correct myself. But it's find it hard when I'm, if I'm sitting there and we're just playing sometimes you can you know, you can start drifting into the sea of doubt and you're like, oh, fuck, and then it's just you just gotta just break through it so yeah, possibly the last few years last year but not know what happened. I think it's actually because what this what happened when I got divorced, which didn't killed me. I couldn't believe I made a record but I recorded all the songs and it was like it was really simple mode. And my mind was like you can't really say these songs you know that saying this person needs to do that in my life as an audience somewhere for Ashley Rihanna, why liked one of the songs actually was it was on she had to hold to hold two songs on hold a record for rock nation because I decided to make sure that they just held two songs but nothing happened with them so sad. So made that record and it came out and it was the it was mixed bag it was a black white rainbow so this was very bruised, I feel proud of it but disjointed and bruised and we had this like mental person at the office at the time who was very destructive and it just was very unfocused and destructive time out I broke the record out but it was just it was awful time when I came out of that and I sort of work for less stupid. I was like, if people have war on this on that record, it's fucking it's one of the best songs I've ever written. You know, I'm so proud of that. But I didn't want to make broken music again on records or the whole entire record broken psyche as I figured out Jesus Christ grip so that's what I think was the turning point to embrace okay, what tuning in I don't want to go in as regular as bullshit and border. And so I went through all the different tunings and tried from from thrips we're tuning to open tuning to drop tunings, and when I sat along was the Dropsy and that's when it that's when it was born. This period of like, of like defiance of like alright, I was fucking injured and really is disability brutal time and so my fuck you and eternal fucking it was to rise and be strong, not rise and be keyboard and interesting. By the way, my favorite bands have maudlin sides to the national language, favorite band. as beautiful, but nobody, like I find, it's just hard for me to do that. Well, probably not because I can't write songs that good. But I mean, my point being that my journey has been to rise up and be fucking strong and defiant. You know, in any anything you know, and be strong. That's what it is. And so that's why I like the music I like because it's strong. But I still sing like, you know, Melody lover. Like, I'm not that interesting. It's the hardest. When I played, I played the heavy metal festival in Spain or somewhere Spain, where we've never done well, I was terrible, all the best catering and never done good in Spain, or France or Italy, because like the best catering as

Keith Jopling: 40:41

well, for a foodie that becomes very important. Yeah, but I love that. But I

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 40:45

gotta tell you this funny thing quickly that when we played the super metal festival, like, really heavy, like every band, we played the Crown Prince, it was soon as I started singing, like melody have, like, loads of all the metal fez left, you know, it's quite proud of that.

Keith Jopling: 41:04

I have to say, I love the arrival at the I mean, it's a real kind of guitarists philosophy in the end to sort of if you're going to change, you know, just have a look at your tuning. I love that. So we'll take we're going to take that on. I know, we've got a few minutes warning here, I did want to just quickly ask about your other stuff. Because you've got clothing label, you've got a food program coming up. It's interesting, because a lot of creators, a lot of musicians are looking at doing this that how do I become a polymath partly because you can't make any money in music these days. Obviously, you've got through the other side of that. Just wondering about the synergies, how you work with synergies between them, or is it just nice to separate them off and just do things that are totally different. My

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 41:46

thrust for doing that was because I simply wanted to have a way of staying home, but didn't want to have to if I work, I had to leave in my own true style. The art of Scotland thing or Russian, Russian, German English wherever, very English. I started them five years ago, trying to begin them four or five years ago, I tapped out on the clothing line because I spend a load of money. And I sold one collection and I made two sample thing. But I didn't do any further business perspective, I just did for perspective of like of craft, what would I like to make? How can I curate someone's life? Let me make where I want to wear, let me sell it. And I was into this whole idea of curation. Because I was realizing that there's this landfill of life. You know, young guys, you know, from 18 to 50. You know, any good, mind me for certain things that I've experienced through travel through culture, through other people exposed to people wherever. And a lot of people want some sort of curated life. So that's what it was that I thought about that. And then I tapped out when I spend way too much when I looked for a partner. And then I thought Fuck that I put on hold until the TV show or do TV show then people want it don't make sense of this clothing line and like one of the Ralphie ran or something so what that so then in typical way that life is like that I just met some guy friend of my daughter's actually, he's a stylist noticed that I was like, Oh man, I tried that line. He's I work on brands. And I was like, I've looked at this, you know, he goes, Oh my god, so then he fell in love with it. And we sort of reject it. And anyhow, it's coming out in two weeks was commended launch for the tour. And it's basically it's pretty cool. And it's really simple. So come the hoodies and T shirts. And every six weeks will be new things come out so take the pressure off of me from having to outlay on it so it's like this anti fashion thing was just like now there's a new pieces new color new thing, it's just cool things and I did a label on like the unique nutrition facts on food. I did that and I just took it and I just put in humanistic phrases that pertained to like people whoever would be in my tribe or whatever tribe I'd be in that sensibility that kind of that mindset so I think that it's good it's got a little edge to it it's got a nice story to either printed a sea of sound on a beautiful knife because that's got Japanese knife is gonna be available in two weeks today with Torsten I

Keith Jopling: 44:38

want one of those because I love my Japanese Kitchen Knives.

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 44:41

Really good knife. Very, very good.

Keith Jopling: 44:44

I don't want you to be late for your next one. Kevin. So I just want to say thanks so much for coming on. Good luck with the tool. Good luck with everything. The clothing line, the future the lot. I'm aborting.

John Rezeznik, Goo Goo Dolls: 44:55

I'm overreaching. Like we're all in the bathroom. If I just stopped any of them in mind me my life easier so I don't know how long we'll be around for getting our stock last.

Keith Jopling: 45:06

Got it. Alright, thanks a lot for coming on. And yeah, we'll hopefully see you soon. Cheers take it easy bye bye