The Art of Longevity Season 7, Episode 2: Mogwai

In this episode of the Art of Longevity, we have the pleasure of chatting with Stuart Braithwaite, a member of the internationally renowned post-rock band Mogwai. Known for their masterful use of crescendos, Mogwai have been making music since 1995, with 11 studio albums that have gained increasing popularity over time, with their latest 'As The Love Continues' reaching the lofty milestone of #1 in the UK album chart.

Stuart's recently published autobiography, 'Spaceships Over Glasgow,' offers an insightful exploration of the band's progression and key periods of their journey. Though they never consciously planned for their success, Stuart shares some valuable insights into how artists can remain relevant and popular over a long period of time. 

“I can’t see any of this as conscious…’ We weren't expecting to be making 5/ 6 albums, never mind 10/11”.

Despite the resolute lack of long-term planning, Stuart and his merry band have become masters of the music long game. One key takeaway is the importance of confident incremental steps and staying true to the original values that inspired them to pursue music. Stuart notes that some bands lose their edge by changing their sound to fit a particular trend, while Mogwai remained steadfast in their approach.

Maybe they are simply building to the crescendo that destroys all crescendos!

Transcript

David Freer: 3:28

Sure breath great from Mogwai Welcome to the Art of longevity. So are you in the old country at the moment? Bang Glasgow?

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 3:35

Yeah, just a home in Glasgow, going every year, sunny day, actually, which is kind of nice. So you've just released a critically acclaimed Oh, my God, brilliant autobiography, spaceships over Glasgow, that that kind of reflection, make you think differently about the longevity of your career about Mogwai,

David Freer: 3:51

a dad in quite a few ways, when I was kind of describing the early days of the band, and I realized that a lot of the mechanisms that we had, for people to hear the band have either completely disappeared or totally changed. In some ways, it wouldn't feel like it changed much at all, because I'd be talking to people and they'd still be the same people I see all the time. And in some ways, it felt like I was talking about another age, but then in other ways, it was like kids have been talking about something that happened six months ago. So it varied from from aspect aspect.

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 4:23

I guess if people are all the same, yeah, but certainly the music industry has changed a lot in this lifespan. And we'll look back in this period, I'm sure and think cheese when we all swapped compilation tapes, didn't we read the Melody Maker go subscribe shit, physical newspapers, and it's a completely different landscape for kids growing up these days isn't I mean, that must be one of the mechanisms you're thinking about there. Yeah,

David Freer: 4:43

that and just like the way people listen to music, I mean, you'll you see a compilation tapes are here and things on the radio and I mean, these things are still around, but I mean, anyone can listen to anything is probably more good than bad. But yeah, it's certainly very different. I mean, you be able to talk about records and like it was like someone had seen a ghost you know, someone's hair, this record that that kind of concept is no so alien, the realest record in the world, if it's not on Spotify or Apple Music, so I'm going to put on YouTube, you can literally hear anything for free. It's nuts. And that's kind of cool, but must be pretty overwhelming as well for people suddenly enter into music. People

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 5:23

talk about the term scarcity, and how important that is, you know, and it made something a bit more special sometimes, isn't it? If it was hard to find, and you were maybe an exclusive club who had access to that taper, that album that was different, wasn't it? One thing I'm fascinated by your book is how well you remembered those gigs you went to when you were younger, and the setlist and the bands in such vivid detail man, how did you remember that? Is it because you're a professional musician? Or did you cheat and have to find out?

David Freer: 5:50

Oh, I totally cheated. In finding There's a website called Sellersville calm I will tell you any setlist pretty much ever. The one I was most stuck about. I really wanted to write about seeing Nirvana reading when they play their little one in the afternoon. And I looked up the setlist and everything. And then I just kind of remember there was like, Oh, my dear, I said one of the biggest bands of the world, then I noticed the whole thing was on YouTube. The whole gig. Yeah, the WHO guys is that is great. Actually. Here we go, like a sphere. Half Hour, 45 minutes to ever want to check it out. But yeah, it had a lot of I mean, I do have a very vivid memories, but you've read the books, if you know, it was kind of drunk half the time or whatever. So like that, that nearly didn't, didn't help my recollection. But we

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 6:38

all were. But in those days, I guess that was part of it wasn't part of experience. There

David Freer: 6:42

was the culture, you know. And also they come kind of sad then with a lot of my friends, and kind of just ask them a bit things like to do you remember when we went to that gag? Or what do you remember when we went to this place or that place? And we asked enough people you kind of build up a kind of bigger picture is you maybe you'll talk to five people and they'll remember two or three things, then by the time you've done that you've got 1520 things. Yeah, dimension and as long as long as someone with that mentioned something I'm like, I don't remember that at all. If I can, if I can remember at the end of when and so yeah, my memory is definitely not as it's not good.

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 7:21

It's actually pretty bad. Remember, and there's no I don't have a steal or when we were young, the barest market, and it's the Barrowlands that used to be that guy with a table with all the tapes of all the gigs and I remember that. Yeah, and you'd walk by and if anybody looked like a policeman or probably a whipped up and he'd run around the corner within his blanket, but yeah, I remember the day I discovered that table amazing gigs that you could get, but no very good quality. But

David Freer: 7:41

no, but it was amazing. To be honest, I mean, that kind of like going back to the when music was rare. I remember like songs that I only knew from tapes of gigs that I bought from that style. I talk about that at Paul Getty played that song I got it right. Yeah, yeah. Only came out is a seventh and I think I've caught it now and like some compilation album, but I've never I've never heard so that I only knew that song from listening to the live tape of the gig that had been to

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 8:12

you had to work hard, didn't you and then rewind and forward rewind the old pencil or yeah toss

David Freer: 8:18

is Kinsey's the donor board.

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 8:22

So I'm a big fan of music biographies general you've joined a pantheon on my on my library or my bookshelf there. If you have any favorite kind of biographies, autobiographies of musicians, anything that inspired you to write yours.

David Freer: 8:34

Yeah, I do have a favorite autobiography. I love the two Julian cookbooks head on. And we possessed a really love DW from galleys five hundreds book. have not read either of those. Yeah, definitely check out Julie cope says that's amazing.

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 8:51

I read the Bill Drummond 145 You read that where he talks about Julian Coppola?

David Freer: 8:56

That's really, really brilliant biographies. There's a really great book about Darby crash from the Jeremiah's called lexicon Devil does a really good it's about it's about a record label, basically book of accession records called My Magpie eyes are hungry for the price. I was obsessed with all these books and rock'n'roll books, everything. That was why I decided to do it. Well, yeah, that the fighter had suddenly with games being canceled, I suddenly had a lot of spare time on my hands. I really love the kind of mythology of music and like a ray. I mean, I must have read dozens of books about Joy Division. I know I honestly like what I had for bloody Briarcrest these days,

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 9:37

to read biographies of musicians and bands that you don't necessarily like their music, but you think this is gonna be an interesting story.

David Freer: 9:44

Thank you have one spark two ways. In fact, I read. I read one of an entire genre that I know almost nothing about this book called Cielo, and it's about all the punk and emo bands that go signed after Ivana and like their stories, and I just knew nothing about the bands and I did like it was interested but like, quite often I would like read a chapter about whatever some punk or hardcore but either then I'd go listen to music and just be like, happy to help this band but I have so many records just because it's because there's no mic and music. I'm sure that Gary, you know, yeah, yeah, I didn't enjoy all the stories.

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 10:23

I love to share. You may read the dirt the motley crew on when I was growing up. There's no my kind of music every time when I'm reading the book of there's talks of passion about the song I must be brilliant and try and listen to and I'm like, Oh my God, this, but the story is brilliant. Yeah,

David Freer: 10:38

that's true. I think around that time there's the Marilyn Manson's book curio is well and I did quite like a couple of his songs. I'm not like a huge fan or anything. And his book was great. I guess. Both of those books came out before Kancil culture, really we just, we just stopped them death. And there's

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 10:56

a book was written review over the weekend. I remember the name Febreze written about it from pop music perspective in the 90s. So like P Watermans. Code in any and there's a whole outtake on it talked about the Brit Awards in 93 when bound Sebastian, and they claimed stole the award from steps or something like that. And it's their perspective, which is fascinating because

David Freer: 11:15

you don't really need only angry, they're angry. Yeah. So it was interesting, paradoxical invocation. So you know, was a brilliant, in fact, probably the best recent music autobiographies Mark Flanagan's book. Oh, yeah, I've heard that. Yeah, saying back was an NS compel, and like everyone I know who's read it has read it in a couple of days. Okay, you can put it down. But it's just like absolute brutal honesty.

Keith Jopling: 11:43

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Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 12:08

So one of the things that I've helped kids do over the years who does this podcast is kind of charting the success metrics, you know, the, you know, the chart, the chart success of bands over the years, you know, the longevity of a career, most of them kind of wobble a lot, you know, they've maybe got big hair, the beginning, then they have a dip, and then they go up again, Mogwai is quite unique. We've not done the chart yet, necessarily, but there must be quite a slow upward trajectory through the life of the band, is that something you're conscious of?

David Freer: 12:36

Yeah. And also know that we're the record label as well, you know, was kind of funny, because like, obviously, our last record did really well. And like, when not too many people, but a few people were like, Why are they going on the charts, and it's like, we literally just run a record label. If we didn't care about how many records we sold, we'd really, we'd really be in a lot of trouble. I do keep an eye on it. The lowest amount of favorite bands have never been neater chart in their life, you know, so it's not like, I don't gauge how good music is because of that, but,

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 13:04

but it's something that's more important to you now, maybe than it was when you started when

David Freer: 13:08

we started, which is wouldn't have even thought it was something that even applied to us to be honest, because we were just like, kind of, we were in an underground band and underground bands. Were never really in the charts. There was no like, freak of like to know, maybe some random band got a song in a jeans advert or something maybe that yeah, like weirdly famous for a year or there would be like a pop culture phenomenon. Like when Nirvana got huge or something like that. But most bombing, the beggar on the drain bands, Sonic Youth clearly weren't in the charts that much, you know, you

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 13:41

talk to that book about Robert Smith from The Cure telling you on see things you guys should be, can't remember what period it was, but you should be a lot more famous than you are you should try writing a song with a verse and a chorus. And it was that a moment where you suddenly thought oh, maybe we could do this in a different way. If

David Freer: 13:55

play No way. And he said it was more appropriate as yours when we know and I think we can start writing those kind of songs quite organically, I don't think it was quite as like, this is something we need to do. But I remember that conversation years later, because he cuter a quite unique by the early because it'd be I think to them as an underground band, but they're also like massive pop stars. Because when every couple of albums every play old album, they'll they'll have a massive hit. Now kind of model of a

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 14:22

flowy growing, though, whether you did it consciously or not consciously, if you looked at that as a business model, for example, there's all these stories about these Silicon Valley companies make that big, really fast and then also falling really fast. And that kind of slow. solid growth is actually a really having a really strong foundation as a business is a really good thing. Right? The you know, you're not just trying to get big very quickly. You're actually trying to learn your trade too slowly. I mean, there must be some logic in that for musicians. I can't really think of any other bands that have consciously done that. But you know, I wonder whether that's part of what your enduring kind of, you know, success has been, and

David Freer: 14:55

I can't see any of that just coincidence to even talk With the book when I was looking back, like we saying that we think they're very traditional record deal for our third album. And I think if we thought at that point that we were going to make, we're about to start making our 11th album, we wouldn't have done it like, it doesn't really make sense, you know, can really get a big advance and you'll pretty much never pay back. And it's a very short term living in the moment. Yeah, I don't think we were expected to be making even five, six albums now of remains nine out of 10. So I can't see any of us conscious, I think when you talk about bands that have kind of like some like big spike of success, and then mega falls, we quite often that's because they've changed their sounds to kind of fit into some kind of Zeitgeist. And we never did. And we're just quite lucky that enough people liked the band and stuck with us that we've kind of stayed quite constant and even kind of got a little bit bigger. But yeah, there's definitely no master plan. I think it's just luck. Luck in town, I'm

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 16:07

sure there, there's something there. I'm gonna press you on this a little bit guy knows, obviously unconscious and numerous other things, obviously a play that kind of inspired you. But Keith uses this term and his other ones, so forgive the language here. But he says, when a band crosses the Rubicon, when they've kind of, they've suddenly realized, Oh, this is not just something I'm doing as a hobby, or something's I want to do to have fun. This is actually my career. And I'm really good at it. And as you notice going, Well, was there a moment when that happened? Where he suddenly thought, okay,

David Freer: 16:35

yeah, I mean, I don't have a moment, but definitely, I would guess probably, probably wouldn't, we've been doing it for about 10, maybe even less, maybe like, after we've made maybe like three albums. And people were still enter. And we were still getting to kind of travel internationally and do all these kind of things. And by that point, as well, we were booked up again, enter kind of late, late 20s, or whatever. So we kind of like they sat at that point that a lot of people can have decided that either lifers or they need to find a better way to make money. You know, I think they probably don't realize no, this is, this is what we do now.

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 17:16

Like I said, let's rock rock action, would that be the third one or third album?

David Freer: 17:20

So So probably, rarely do they enter Canada, the albums The friends were doing, or afterwards,

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 17:26

the album covers designed, of course, were designed by Graham at the same designer that did their disintegration album cover. So you might that must be a thrill as well. You're thinking oh, that

David Freer: 17:35

was really killers a nice nice guys around. Yeah, so things took about a step up we'd seen that would say the bag deal, or kind of very busy. There's kind of a lot going on. There was quite an exciting time. But I think it would have been right into by the end of it kind of while certainly for me kind of thought very okay. This isn't something that's that we do for a few years. This is something that that we're going to do try and do for as long as we can read

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 17:59

in your book, I realized we went to a lot of same gigs in our youth in Glasgow, the roller coaster tour mazing, the cure Omnicare tall and barlines. Jane's Addiction. Funny story about Jane's Addiction t shirt. Let me tell you afterwards, Sam, one stood out for me though, which was the Velvet Underground reforming and 993 and playing that replay house think it was tell me within your own words what it felt like seeing those legends up on stage of the age.

David Freer: 18:24

They were one of the first bands that I really got into. I've got probably a bit beyond my years music tastes because of what was my big sister that got me into music. So it kind of got into the really good stuff a lot quicker than a lot of people get too. So I've been really into them for a long time. And it was just incredible. Just seeing them together and just kind of knowing that they had created this magic pool and majestic music that had been the kind of pillars for all the other music that I liked. And yeah, it was really great. And they will get to agree that night. It was kind of funny thing, because I think is the tumor went on. Lou Reed got a bit fed up of it and started to kind of mess the songs up. And I don't think he'd quite started doing it. And that

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 19:09

was a big fan. We were hooked a nightclub afterwards. See, she read in the velvet underpants you remember them the Glasgow band.

David Freer: 19:15

He actually interviewed me in Beijing, Diddy. Yeah, he loves ellipses.

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 19:19

I remember that gig. I was used to listening to studio albums and maybe wasn't quite as musically as tuned to you at the time. So you know, I remember being a little bit disappointed you do sometimes if you're used to studio albums a little bit, it was great to see them just to music, but it felt to me like these were people maybe kind of at the end of their career cashing in a little bit coming back after a long period, rightly or wrongly, to maybe not

David Freer: 19:42

fair, clearly was a bad I mean, yeah,

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 19:45

must have been but this is a scary fact, man for you. I was looking at that gig was 23 years after loaded was released, you know, which isn't a huge period of time. When you think about you got your guy's career took my son to see you in Bath recently. And I tell you something, I'm not just doing this to blow smoke up your ass. But you know, when I saw you guys on stage, it felt very different. Maybe it's cuz I'm an old guy as well now, but it felt like you're still contemporary, still quite important as a band, even though it's even longer since your your first albums in the Velvet Underground playing that night? It's not so much a question. But is that something you're conscious of?

David Freer: 20:25

I consider that a contemporary band, even though we haven't gone quite a long time. And I do have always been quite reticent to kind of do the whole nostalgia thing. Because I think once you do that, you can't really go back. Once you're part of the can then nostalgia, it's hard to get people to be excited about new music. Yeah, that's one thing I always loved about Sonic Youth, like I remember going to see Sonic Youth, anytime I could really, from when I started going to gigs. And they would always play mostly the new album. And then they play like four or five old songs or whatever. And that would be really cool. But it was always been mostly their new record. And I think when you can slip into the kind of, if you're on tour, promoting a new album, you you're only playing one or two new songs that it's kind of like

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 21:13

giving up a little bit

David Freer: 21:14

maybe I don't know if you've given out relevant, because you know what, a lot of bands I love. Do that again, and I mean, if you go if you go a hip hop show, you will only see that, if you go and see the Wu Tang Clan, you will only hear songs from the first two records. That's a whole other podcast. I'm not going to complain. But I mean, they're talented people that still make great records Ghostface Killah, and required and Method Man. They're amazing. Like, I would happily go and see those people play just songs they heard in the last five years, but in that world is just about making the code happy or whatever. I'll give the entire genre of Apple paths.

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 21:56

There's a famous David Crosby story about going to see Neil Young him before he you know that those guys played together. And it was just after harvest, and all the glitterati loved the harvest album binding. By that point, Neil Young was already quite sick of it, you know, quite soon afterwards. She said to the audience, he said, Listen, I'm gonna play some songs tonight. You don't recognize from my new album, and then I'm gonna play some songs you've heard before. So He then played tonight tonight, which everybody was like, What's going on here? Because they wanted to hear the harvest songs. Right. And they were waiting for him to finish. But then what he did is he just played tonight tonight again. You played the new songs twice. Yeah, whether that's true or not. But that's a rock and roll story. I've got a lot of time for that.

Keith Jopling: 22:39

Thanks for listening to the art of longevity. I hope you're enjoying the conversation so far. Please take a moment to rate the show. leave a review on Apple podcasts if that's where you're listening and do spread the word. Also, you can sign up via the song familia webpage for our newsletter, artwork, and much more. Back to the conversation.

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 23:02

My kids love you guys. And it's not because I've brainwashed them they genuinely ticket you know, I do like your music. I told you I tell my 15 year old CEO recently. And he kind of answered this already. But are you conscious? Are you thinking about being down with the kids? So to say, Are you thinking what what can we write that they're gonna get? Not

David Freer: 23:18

really although I will say this probably applies more to buy than to be the body's very conscious to use new musical equipment or on every record, well, pretty much almost have like a kind of different sound palette for everything. And I think that that makes a big difference. I think that that keeps everything sound in contemporary. I think music is music, you can kind of play on any instrument you want. But I do think that that probably makes a bit of a difference. That

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 23:47

was the is one of the one things that has changed over all your albums. I mean, you know, I think when you guys got the vocoder where you kind of had that thing with your voice CD and you can almost tell what Mogwai album you're listening to for the kind of equipment and sound you're hearing.

David Freer: 24:02

That was the big thing when we got onboard got that for our third album, because we were all fans of like Kraftwerk and even like early early electro and hip hop and all that kind of stuff and there was a way of kind of incorporating that so in that interval we did thinking

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 24:19

of early electro music we should put show to him today rip Raikou second moto obviously named check by you guys are Richie Sacramento. There's an album you know, he passed away yesterday sadly, didn't they?

David Freer: 24:31

80 days and you know, this is massively influential musician, really, these kind of people and you just don't expect them to not be around. So ya know, as a real shame.

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 24:43

The research company that keeps works for now did a study I was reading last week about how young people discover music music discovery these days. So we talked briefly about that beginning with records and so on. But one of the kind of, you know, obvious ways kids are listening to music and finding out about new music these days is TV He shows do you think Mogwai is soundtrack work because you guys have obviously done a lot that has helped you stay relevant and discovered by new audiences

David Freer: 25:08

I'm sure it has a new the French TV show we did Lebanon was really popular and I think that that introduced some music to quite a lot of people whether those people just got that soundtrack and then never really changed anything else up who knows? I know that that felt like kind of quite a big kind of thing for us and yeah, I mean I know I'll I'll find about over music though from like Shazam and stuff off TV so I'm guessing loads of people do you know you do don't you? Yeah, you hear good music and some of the music sister provides us a really really really good like the the key boost song and Stranger Things I mean that's pretty much introduced America to K bush. She was like obscure there and the head she's got this amazing new list of cultural this life in America and well to get some of the watching the new series a Yellowjacket said like I'm not always that good. Yes, really good songs and are amazing and really great kind of curation of music and be

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 26:13

a great job wouldn't it for concerns here's a Robbie Robertson man from the band. He did it. He doesn't do a lot. I did it for Martin Scorsese didn't remember he was kind of music curator.

David Freer: 26:22

I mean, you get like obscure music to be like a like, a love a musician gripper. She had a bunch of songs and the mayor V stone show. Oh, yeah, she's undergoing a musician. So like, someone like that who's like, not going over we to kind of be part of the mainstream at all. But then suddenly, kind of getting into the consciousness of I don't know how many people watch a show about 10s of millions, maybe even hundreds of millions. I don't know, like a shitload of people.

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 26:50

And not just that, I guess a lot of these shows have got Spotify playlists, don't know. So you know, you know, even music. There's like the music you hear. And it gets out there in a different way, doesn't it?

David Freer: 26:58

That was the leg giving you to kind of talk about longevity. And I actually think the internet had a huge part to play in this. Because when we were young when we were teenagers and whatever, like loads of music would be really cool. People would like think like, certain bands were uncool. Like even like bands that I really love. I didn't hear them until toes about older because just people I knew were playing their music bands like Hawkwind or the

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 27:24

Velvet Underground taboo is probably an example wasn't a lot of kids weren't really listening to them, where they at the time, some of those records

David Freer: 27:30

are fully present. And all the stitches the stitches records were print, I remember, they they're quite hard to actually get those records. There's something

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 27:37

that's changed there is not like I look at my children's Spotify playlists and they have like contemporary bands, old bands doesn't seem to matter to them. Whether this is a band that's just been released or a band from 20 years ago. That's gonna help. Yeah,

David Freer: 27:50

I think it does help. I remember when the Sex Pistols reformed, people were laughing at them because they were four years old. People just don't think that that sort of old. No. And it's not just because we're older. I hope it's not. I don't think young people think of that. I don't think they care. They will listen to failures or loads of bands that are a lot older than the Sex Pistols were then you know, yeah, so I think things have changed a lot. So although you're, you're

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 28:16

from Glasgow, and I love that, obviously, you do feel like a global band. And that's because you were instrumental, you know, a lot of that, you know, do you think maybe being an instrumental band maybe when you did have vocals in your track I'm a big fan of the dial revenge one with the Welsh lyrics in it, or you know, some of the quotes or outtakes you've got that from Americans or Japanese people do you think do you think that kind of global positioning yourself as a global band has helped make you more relevant I

David Freer: 28:43

think it's, it's something we always want to do, we always wanted to go and play music as many places as we could. And we've kind of got people who like your music all over the place to know a few bands will be massive in one place and then can struggle in a lot other places and we're kind of do roughly the same every year which is is really nice. And thanks to fluctuate from country to country like you're going to and like one country will do a lot better than you did before and maybe it's simple as you'll do a little bit less but it kind of balances out so yeah, I think it probably does help we

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 29:17

don't necessarily to make this too political but you know, I suppose this kind of global outlook a Scotland as a country is quite as always been quite a global place somewhere that's got you know, we see ourselves as part of Europe, part of the wider world. Glasgow certainly when we were growing up when you think about a culturally the impact has had over time, you know, not just you guys musically the 90s I was writing it down early. You got Douglas Gordon, you know, obviously he did there's a dance soundtrack with you know, the Turner Prize winners have come from Glasgow writers James Kelman Mark Miller, you had the joy of meeting recently you did the you know, familiar world did all the comics. Was there something in the water in Glasgow when we were growing up? I don't know what it was. Yeah, no, that

David Freer: 29:56

definitely is Ken Morrison as well. Another great comic dryer. Think people value culture, it's hard to kind of quantify in a lot of different fields as well I think the reputations always kind of look snowballed the process because people come here now to study our, or to start a band or start a music career. So there's always new people come in and they're almost kind of which keeps it all kind of turning over so

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 30:23

I suppose at the time in Glasgow that was it was a more affordable of the to St. Jean to big cities to live in, wasn't it compared to Edinburgh? You know, and it kind of attract those attracts the artists, isn't it? Yeah, I

David Freer: 30:34

think that is an important thing, because there's still parts of Glasgow where you can live pretty cheaply and find studio space for not too much money and, and that's not what a set is for that's possible.

Keith Jopling: 30:47

The altered longevity is recorded at cube West studios in Acton, and sometimes at the QB studios in London's Canary Wharf. Cube is the world's first member's studio for musicians podcasters and content creators and it's a real sanctuary for London's independent inspired creators. It's a real pleasure to record the show here.

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 31:11

I'm gonna turn this back to songwriting. I was watching if you you've watched the GET BACK film that Peter Jackson did to the Beatles couldn't believe it Washington, they just looked like young boys is weird. And that was kind of towards the end of their career there. I almost cried watching Paul McCartney writing long and winding road. It was amazing. I mean, those guys the talent, you know, that age was just breathtaking. But you know, made me think in a lot of other careers, you know, knowledge and experience would make somebody better and better the longer they got into their career. But much so I love Paul McCartney and even love now. Just don't know whether he could write a song Let long and winding road anymore. Is there something that happens in songwriting? Do you think there's only got so many good songs in you? Do you think there's an urgency when you're young that makes you write those songs and then fades over time? I mean, I don't think it's something here and Mogwai music but you know, a lot of other artists that don't seem to have that they had when they

David Freer: 32:04

were younger, a hard one. I mean, there's people that kind of go against the grain of that, I'd say Barry's kind of goes against the grain. I think it has lost homes, one of his best albums. I think people get too comfortable. Maybe having the kind of thing almost don't have to do any better, because they're millionaires or whatever, takes the urgency away. And maybe this is just some math theory of God. But think of the people in some tents loses a lot about hunger. Maybe

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 32:31

it's what makes you write those songs. Sometimes especially young people. That's the unrequited love. It's the kind of relationships are in when they get those maybe there's they lose that urgency as well.

David Freer: 32:41

When you're young, almost as if you don't you don't have the life experience to contextualize things. So everything's the biggest thing ever. Things tend to be very dramatic. makes for good songs. Based forgetting songs. Yeah. reliefs and absolute learning Ben fire, but

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 33:01

you can write a good tune. I love that. You were mentioning earlier your record, you're almost not just the band and you've got those kind of motivations, but you're obviously running the record label now must be different responsibilities you've got as a mentor as a guide for younger bands. What do you say to the bands that you work with? Do you give them advice that you wish you'd been given when you were younger? Do you get involved in any of that? Or just let them do their thing?

David Freer: 33:24

No, no, I get involved the band running tour. We did good but I mean, we did get advice. That's one thing like when we were on ChemiCon they're doing like little gadgets hadn't been covered for as long as we had been going for longer than us and we're about older and a bit wiser than us so they definitely that kind of give us advice. Yeah, I do I do get involved with bands and whether they pay any attention to is probably another I got another question. But yeah, it's tricky these days. You know, like the climate is tricky, so I can quit often. Can I just have to kind of reassure them that everything's fine you know? Yeah, let's see like bands get, especially when you're not on tour, you can have ethanol, you can have this kind of weird bunker mentality and I'm fond of all all of the bands and singers on our on our label and they're a big inspiration to me as well as people that I'm happy to, to work with as well. Give some

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 34:19

a plug in case anybody's listening that has no heard of them. Who should we be looking at off?

David Freer: 34:23

People should check out Katherine Joseph is an amazing singer, piano player, got a couple new bands for a few new bands of really good cloth bedroom, which is spelt BDR mm vycor Lakens law which features Malcolm from our abstract, awesome, good, totally sad and sharp themselves. So yeah, we've got quite a strong roster.

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 34:45

That's an interesting one thinking of young musicians in their careers. You know, he obviously the lead singer, friend rapper, sadly passed away a number of years ago, and committed suicide. And I guess there's questions there about young people in the music industry and you know, their sensitivities and whether they're being live After and looked out for and the right kind of way, it was tragic. What happened to him wasn't? is he somebody you knew?

David Freer: 35:05

A dead? No. Yeah, dead? No Scott is really, really, really sad. And one thing that's come from it is the charity, the tiny changes cherry, thank you is is a really great charity, which wants to kind of promote kind of mental well being. And I think that people do consider looking at mental health in the music industry a bit more than the dead? Definitely. I mean, it wasn't really much thought about as tall really for a long time. Yeah, I think that's changing, which is definitely a good thing.

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 35:35

Do you think in your book, you talk a lot about the drinking drugs, the excesses of youth? You know, we've all been there. But you know, it seemed like you guys took it to a different level, certainly from a year tours. I mean, that seemed to be something that went hand in hand with the industry back then. Is it still a part of the industry? Is it still something that bands can have? You know,

David Freer: 35:52

I mean, I think it's the best generation I think that can the younger generation are not quite as hedonistic as their generation were thinking, but we do want to be reminded about what they did last night on their panels on Instagrams or whatever. So I think there's maybe a bit of protection, who don't they know, but it's also it's not good for you, you know, it's kind of you find a lot of people will kind of self medicate. People kind of think they're, they're having a time when it's the exact opposite. You know, they're having a terrible time. It's just their only way of coping with it, you know, so, yeah, I think that I think there's, there's a lot more awareness to that. Remember,

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 36:26

black Francis from the Pixies talking about, you know, the first thing they did as a band is learn how to play their songs when they were really really drunk, being an important thing, because almost trained them as musicians to kind of subliminally or unconsciously just be able to know the tunes. Well,

David Freer: 36:40

I mean, I would pretty much play at least slightly drunk until just a few years ago. It was only a few years ago that I decided to know to wait till it came off stage to start drinking. Did

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 36:53

that change experience for you? Do you think were you

David Freer: 36:56

a little bit but not in a bad way? Just just a bit different? At least know if I make a mistake, and it was my own fault or just keep on hurts? Okay.

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 37:06

There's another story. Remember, for your book that you were the guitar tech for abstract playing a gig. I think it was in Portugal and Eugene Diller and sprint strong. Yeah,

David Freer: 37:15

that's, I didn't do it purpose. I just didn't know how to work the tuner properly. Yeah, it was an absolute disaster. So yeah, that's my my one and only experience of being a guitar tech.

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 37:27

Silver guitar techs, maybe no. So are musicians there. Yeah.

David Freer: 37:30

I mean, Atom Fox, even junk. I just didn't know what this is doing. And

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 37:36

you've mentioned this ad nauseam. This idea that you know, you may be with repetition you get bored of something. So some of your songs. You've already talked about how and I've seen your show, obviously, you do change yourself or you play a lot of the new music. LG keep the old songs fresh, because you do still play a few of the old songs. Is there a tactic to that you rotate them?

David Freer: 37:56

Yeah, we will when we rotate them. When we go on tour, we'll probably rehearse these days that would say about two gigs worth of music. So believe it 14 songs. So probably practice about 30 songs, and you will kind of sail into doing a few the same ones every night. But when it kind of starts to feel like almost kind of muscle memory you can switch around. So it's about that from and also it kind of helps too because a lot of people like to go more than one Gago tour and see a different show every night. The bands that play the exact same every night. I just could never get it. I mean, they do get super tight. I would just find that too much deja vu for me, for

Stuart Braithwaite, Mogwai: 38:36

you and for the fans. Yes. Good. Sure. Thanks. It's been amazing talking to you. I'm really excited about what you guys do next.