The Art of Longevity Season 7, Episode 4: John Grant

Asking John Grant to describe the essence of the record he is working on now, elicits a response that fascinates from the get go. 

“I’m trying to marry the vibe of Blade Runner with - wait a minute - let me go and get this movie [shows me Tetsu The Iron Man]. I want to blend Sonic Youth with Blade Runner, Evil Dead and Halloween 3”. 

John was struggling to articulate a few things on the day we met, including the one word essence of this new album project, but I’m going to guess the word that he was looking for was cyberpunk. 

If you don’t know it, Tetsuo: The Iron Man is a 1989 Japanese tokusatsu cyberpunk body horror film created (as in written, produced, edited, and directed) by Shinya Tsukamoto. It’s insane and unlike any other movie made then or now. It’s an auteur’s project and that sums up John Grant better than anything else. The man has a singular vision and for that we can be grateful. We do not want John Grant by way of compromise! 

And then there is Blade Runner, which I’m guessing you are more familiar with. Ridley Scott’s 1982 cult classic is an anchor point for Grant, who is influenced by those sweeping, cosmic valve-synth Vangelis soundscapes that cropped up so fully formed on his last album Boy From Michigan - a high watermark record that John feels is only just finished, yet is already almost two years old. In today’s music biz, two years is an awfully long time. 

But then, making the follow-up to Boy From Michigan is not a trivial undertaking. Creativity in John Grant’s particular zone of avant garde pop is not an environment in which you can simply turn up at the office and turn on the tap. His world is not always a well-oiled machine. 

“Guy Garvey told me that creativity is like a pipeline that you have to keep flowing, even if it’s just to flush the shit out before you can get to the good stuff”.

I do love it when artists listen to artists. Thing is, it doesn’t happen enough.

For the time being however, if you cannot wait too long for more from John - good news. Grant’s alternative supergroup Creep Show brings a welcome escape from the weight of the world - for him and for us. New album Yawning Abyss is due for release June 2023. 

Creep Show is a wonderful collaboration. With a name inspired by George A. Romero and Stephen King’s 1982 film and novel, Creep Show brings together John Grant with the dark analogue-electro of Wrangler (Stephen Mallinder / Phil Winter  and Benge, the latter producing Grant’s 2018 album Love Is Magic). The Creep Show project deserves every bit the success achieved by Gorillaz, in a parallel universe in which all music is judged on listenability. 

Who could not listen to this man's voice?

Transcript

John Grant: 2:42

Thank you, Keith. Thanks for having me.

Keith Jopling: 2:44

How are you, John and whereabouts in the world are

Unknown: 2:46

you? I'm okay. And I am. I'm in Reykjavik at my apartment.

Keith Jopling: 2:53

My daughter actually just came back from Iceland. She was on a school trip.

Unknown: 2:58

Everyone's daughter just came back.

Keith Jopling: 3:01

You know, that was the classic stuff, I guess the Blue Lagoon, the fields. But she did tell me a fact. I said, Well, I can check this out with someone who's going to know the answer. So she came back and she said Iceland is the only country in Europe where there is no dialect, the no variation in dialect. So okay, that's interesting. What does it mean? And we didn't quite get to the bottom of it. Does that sound familiar to you? Yeah,

Unknown: 3:25

people say that. But when you're talking to Icelanders, they're always talking about how different the languages in the north, so it's not entirely I mean, it's nothing like England, that's for sure.

Keith Jopling: 3:35

And how is your Icelandic? Are you fluent now?

Unknown: 3:38

I mean, I don't feel like I know anything in Icelandic, I really don't. But it's still really hard to speak. They say that I'm doing a really good job, but I think they're lying. I mean, I've been here for 11 years. And, you know, to be fair, I don't spend I didn't spend most of my time hear for those first 10 years, you know, that was always on the move. So it's a super difficult language,

Keith Jopling: 4:02

but a great creative space for you. It's been really great for you since you moved there. Just tell me what you're working on. At the moment. I

Unknown: 4:11

am working on my new record. But I have this side project called creep show that I'm a member of. And we finished that record in October and that's supposed to come out in June. That's just sort of slowly starting to appear now. Various tracks from that. And then I went right into starting my sixth solo record. And I'm working on that now. And it's a difficult one I

Keith Jopling: 4:37

was doing some reading on your previous interviews and there was a an interview you did with loud and quiet a while back. And you said in that I have to remind myself how much I loved it when artists I love just do whatever the fuck they wanted. Which is also a fantastic thing as a as a fan. And on this show, many of the guests are in that position. That kind is the position you're in right now, isn't it?

Unknown: 5:02

Yeah, I guess so. I mean, I really have no idea what position I'm in. People tell me that I'm a successful musician. But I feel like I'm still just sort of doing my first record. I've definitely built some sort of foundation, you know, since Queen of Denmark came out, but COVID really sort of felt like it changed the game. And, you know, boy from Michigan, I kept being told that that was a success. But it didn't feel like it even happened. You know, it just came out. The reviews apparently, were, I'm not really reading anything anymore. The reviews were supposedly decent, you know, on that? What quite good actually. But you know, I mean, it didn't change anything about my life, you know, and then it felt like it didn't happen, I didn't get to hardly got to do any shows surrounding it. And then when it was over, it was just like, alright, well, if you want to continue in this business, you know, where's your next record? And that was like, not even a year later, you know, I mean, you put your you put your entire self into something. And then when you're done with it, and you're feeling completely emptied out and completely depleted, you know, it's just like, Alright, where's your next thing? Yeah, I

Keith Jopling: 6:12

can imagine it is a little bit like that, you know, it's a very cyclical way to make a living in that sense, because it is from project to project. That's how the industry machine works. It's fascinating hearing you talk about knowing what success means just objectively, we've been looking at the success of all of the guests that launch of us in the business, and you are at this point, it looks like your star is rising, your critical reviews are always good, but have been getting better. They were better across the board with both Michigan, you were also charting in the UK. So you're in a point where you creatively doing something that I think is with boy from Michigan is groundbreaking, but also having commercial success. So yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it feels like you could be on the edge of something really big. That's how it feels to me.

Unknown: 7:01

Yeah, I've been told that for so long that that was supposedly the case for so long, that I just, I can't think about that, you know, even I can barely react to that statement. You know, I mean, it's, there's a lot of pressure to just do like Queen of Denmark to. But I mean, there is no Queen of Denmark to accept that, you know, unless, you know, unless I come out with an album that says, it doesn't really get better. Nobody's gonna want to hear that record.

Keith Jopling: 7:31

Well, you could though you could, you know, there's been a lot of you could go kind of more experimental. And many artists have done that. I mean, I think Solange did it, you know, after the success of seat at the table, she kind of self corrected, she's like, I'm not into this, I'm going to do something that's kind of deeply experimental. So you know, you could take it in different ways. I mean, do you have an essence to this new record that you could put into words,

Unknown: 7:54

but it's basically about what I'm always exploring, it's, it's sort of like going for the jugular vein as far as what it means to be a man and how I relate to people in the world based on the relationships to my mother and my father. So it's about you know, like the mother and son relationship and the father and son relationship and the way that I relate as a man and the way that I relate to men and people in the world in general, as a result of that, there's also little stories in there that don't really have anything to do with that, that are just stories that I, you know, that I find interesting, but sonically, I'm always trying to figure out how to marry, you know, the vibe of Blade Runner with what was the word that I was looking at? Sorry, I'm trying to think of this word. I was

Keith Jopling: 8:40

going to ask you how much Van gellis is an influence? Because I hear that all the time. And Blade Runner is, you know, my cultural reference point. I mean, maybe that's why I like your music in a sense.

Unknown: 8:51

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's going even more in that in that direction. It's like, I was trying to think about, you know, I'm always I'm always thinking about Blade Runner, because I love that sound so much. And I love those. Those. I mean, it's sort of the way I sort of want it to sound is like somebody who's, do you know, hear it, and they did this movie real quick. Are you familiar with with this at all? Yes.

Keith Jopling: 9:14

It's absolutely crazy. So Tetsu Yeah, yeah, insane stuff. And I mean, asked you about the essence. And I think it's, it's really interesting that you pointed out to movies to capture the essence of a of an album. I think that's really cool.

Unknown: 9:29

It's funny, I don't really believe in writer's block. And I basically have all of the songs I still have a lot of lyric writing to do. I guess that's the thing that's not bothering me right now. But it's taking a long time because I have to be in a space where I feel really inspired and really happy and really excited to write a lot of things, you know, and when I'm, when I'm sort of, sort of wading through difficult moments. It's hard to Well, it's just hard to be inspired. So that those that those words come as freely as they, as they can, you know, I sort of really need to be in the studio all day. And then, you know, sometimes I'll sleep on the couch, sometimes I'll, you know, obviously I go for lunch or have stuff there to eat, and you start to just need to spend the day there and sort of, you know, there's all sorts of things that you can always be doing. But some of these songs, you know, some of these songs sort of demand a level of specificity, then there's phrasing and tone and register of the lyrics, you know, the, what mixture level of society are they coming from? Who's the character that saying these words? And so what kinds of words do you need, and some of them are really big stories. And so, my songs are always really long. That seems to be something that people always bring up. It's a problem, you know, like, but, you know, whatever, right? I mean,

Keith Jopling: 10:54

you're bringing out long songs in 2023. When, you know, the sped up song is the thing. It's like, a minute and a half, but you got to speed it up. No, I don't think there's a problem with that, to some extent, those stories that you're telling, they need to be epic in nature in a way so you can't do that in a short song.

Unknown: 11:12

I sort of second guess myself a lot. You know, I Your story is uninteresting. At this point. It's it doesn't matter. You know, there's Everybody's got their own story. I feel like we live in this age, this sort of Age of crushing, toxic positivity, like fake positivity, and it's really hard to escape. And you know, the people that know you your whole life, they're just like, Oh my God, will you just fucking move on?

Keith Jopling: 11:39

The art of longevity is presented with Bowers and Wilkins, the revered British Premium Audio brands, Bowers and Wilkins make some of the world's finest audio products from the iconic 800 series loudspeakers trusted by Abbey Road Studios for over 40 years to the flagship px eight wireless headphones. This is music as the artist intended you to hear it. These tracks that you've written which are kind of I don't know how he feels like deeply vitriolic against someone. I recognize it and I kind of see it as therapy, listening to that stuff in many ways.

Unknown: 12:16

vitriolic, what would you describe as vitriolic?

Keith Jopling: 12:18

Well, if you look at something like portfolio, for example, and I don't know who that's aimed at particularly

Unknown: 12:24

well, because the problem doesn't go away, you know, and continues to affect you. But I mean, from what I understand the way the place that I'm supposed to be in right now, I'm supposed to be like Erykah Badu, you know, in what way? Well, you know, just Ayahuasca trip, everything's great. Everything's fine. You know, everything is a beautiful journey and a beautiful world. And I don't surround myself with negativity, and I don't, I don't manifest negativity. I'm a big fan of hers, you know, so I think she's absolutely fucking incredible. She's also one of those artists that was that sort of came onto the scene fully formed from her debut. You know what I mean?

Keith Jopling: 13:07

Yeah, yeah. Well, I was gonna ask you actually, if, if this next album was going to see you more in the Erykah Badu frame of mind, but I think from this conversation, that's not happening. Actually, I don't think we'll mind a bit. Let's come on to creep show because I assume you've had more fun with the creep show project, because it comes across as being fun.

Unknown: 13:31

Yeah, I mean, Yanina. Bearss is basically the same stuff that we're talking about right here. Because I guess what it feels like to me, and I guess, you know, you know, my point is, this is, you know, we've sort of brought this on ourselves, because we don't want to have our lattes, interrupted. You know, I'm saying, you know, we don't want to be inconvenienced, and nobody wants to believe that you might actually have to die for something, you know, that you might actually have to spill some blood to get to get things back on the right track. But I'm guaranteeing you that that's what it's going to take in the United States. I mean, it's completely out of control there. And, you know, this is expressed in you know, it's fun. It's more of a fun way of expressing it on the crypto project. Yeah, but it's still there. Well, it's definitely there. I mean, I don't know how I cannot express this in the music that I'm doing. You know, you sit there and you think, you know, you brought up this song, my portfolio. And you know, people were in the reviews, there was a lot of people saying, at least my manager was telling me he, you know, just people don't get why you would put a song like that on your record. It just seems stupid to them. And they, you know, they're just like, that's ridiculous even have that on the record. But you seem to understand why it was on the record, you know, and it was, I thought it was one of the most relevant songs on the record.

Keith Jopling: 14:46

Yeah. I also think it seemed to come in the right place in the record as well. I mean, in the way it was scheduled, somehow.

Unknown: 14:53

Absolutely. Because it's, you know, it's about how like you're expressing or I personally am expressing like the 10 tenderness and the quiet and the, what it can be like to have a human experience, or my particular version of the human experience. And there's all this beauty in the world. You know, there's a song on there about the the transforming power of friendship, of true friendship with people. But I mean, in today's in today's society, you know, with what you see going on, I mean, doesn't that just sound ridiculous to you the transformative power of friendship? I mean, who the fuck wants to hear about that? It sounds like something that an insane person would talk about. You know, in today's society, it's sort of a fight between, do I just make songs about whatever, you know, just like, make cool music, that sounds cool. And then at the end of it, just like make up, you know, just like, whatever the vibe is of the song, like, make up some lyrics and string some words together, which, from what I can tell, and from what I've been told directly by from people is exactly what they do.

Keith Jopling: 15:58

Yeah, I don't think that's the way you write lyrics. You

Unknown: 16:01

know, it's not the way that I'm writing lyrics right now. Because I'm sort of, I don't know, I think it's a fight within myself to just give into, Hey, man, you could be really successful. You know, you could really take this to the next level, if you just, you know,

Keith Jopling: 16:18

hold back. Well, yeah, just quit talking about your

Unknown: 16:21

dumb story. And, you know, nobody gives a shit that you're gay, you know, nobody cares that you, you know, everybody's struggled in their childhood, you know, it's, we're all the same, it doesn't matter. Now. It's, everything's great. And you know, you should, you know, if you want to take this to the next level, if you want people to, like, listen to you, you, you know, you know, maybe you get a Swedish producer to, you know,

Keith Jopling: 16:43

yeah, there's a few that come to mind. I don't know, I mean, you know, you're writing about all those things that are important to you, and your life. And yeah, sometimes, you know, the politics and the vitriol, but you're hitting top 10 in the chart. So it's not that it's not working in that sense, what it's back to where we started, it's about you got to do what the fuck you won, I think you're in that place. I'm interested in the collaborations. Creepshow for one thing, but also you've collaborated with, with many other artists, and I'm keen to know who you'd like to collaborate with. But when you do that, how do they bring a yin to the Yang, in terms of, you know, you want to write stuff that's personal to you and important to you? Or your collaborators? Kind of working with you more on the music side? Or are they working with you lyrically as well or thematically?

Unknown: 17:32

Yeah, no, I don't work with people on lyrics, you know, because I have, I feel like I've got that covered, you know, so basically, it's about people helping me create the sound world that I envision and that I have, you know, a difficult time expressing, you know, it's hard to express exactly. You know, you can say as many times as you want, I want to marry Sonic Youth with Blade Runner, and Evil Dead and Halloween three, you can say that over and over. But it's like, you know, actually realizing that in the studio is is a different thing. But I mean, for me right now, it's just a struggle of us. It's like, it's a it's a fight within myself to do I just give in to what people are saying and make a disco record? Or do I just continue to be myself and for obviously, the choice for me is, I will just continue to be myself, you know, because when when the world is in turmoil like this, I feel like you want you sort of you desperately want that comfort, and comfort that comes from financial security so that you can build your own little bubble and have your lattes and watch your movies and, and, you know, hang out with your friends and go visit the people that you want to, you know, go travel and do whatever you want. But I guess what I'm trying to do is just continue to be myself, and challenge myself, as well. At the same time, you know, sitting with ideas and waiting for lyrics to come instead of forcing them to come is something that makes me very impatient, because, you know, you have the industry telling you, you know, you should have a new album out by now. I mean, boy from Michigan was like, 10 minutes ago for me, but I guess it's two years, you know, so it'll be three years until, you know, it'll be a total of three years when my next one comes out. But during that time, everything has changed, you know, so my financial buffer that I had, when I went into COVID is gone. And you can't tour which is what you how you make money. You can't tour unless you have something new. So there's a pressure to create. Because if you want to keep doing what you're doing, without going back to waiting tables, you have to be on some sort of schedule. And then you've got the world saying to you we'll look at Lana Del Rey, she's not having any problems. She's coming out with a record every six months. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 19:54

and pretty damn good as well. As she is doing whatever the fuck she wants. But I hear what you're saying. There's a constant pressure to create. I mean, I talked to kind of rising artists or artists wanting to break through into having a career all the time, or they have to release music all the time. You know, they almost can't stop. And so I think, you know, from that point of view, thing is a deeply challenging time for for creators there. It's

Unknown: 20:21

very difficult to just put yourself in this happy, creative bubble. Well, at least this for me, it doesn't seem to be for other people. You know, like Lana Del Rey, for example. I mean, how do you put out a new album every six months? The industry is telling me, Well, we need to yours set up the record.

Keith Jopling: 20:39

Yeah, that seems out of step with the times, I have to say. Totally out of Yeah, yeah, I think that's what I'm hearing a lot of time from creators who are, you know, working with labels, and working the label system? I know you're on a cool indie label. But to some extent, indie labels are traditional in that sense. But you know, it's a bit of a double edged sword, because I was gonna say, I felt like with boy from Michigan, that record has lasted, you know, it feels like it still has legs, you could still do something with it. If you wanted to. I don't know what it would be. I know you've done some sort of intimate, stripped down shows. Sorry to interrupt

Unknown: 21:13

you. But I mean, what I'm being told is, I was talking to somebody about performing in LA recently, and they're like, Well, we know the last thing he did was boy from Michigan, what does he got now? What's is he see have anything new that we could you know, that he there could be a reason for him to come here? It's like, well, I didn't even come there for boy from Michigan, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I didn't present that album. But you know, it costs 6000 pounds, or $6,000 for a visa for one person to go to the States now. So obviously, I don't need a visa. But any if I want to take my band or my crew, I mean, the numbers are ridiculous. Well,

Keith Jopling: 21:55

as you said, you know, the way to make a living is to perform live. But that seems to be becoming unviable for, for a whole swath of bands that are kind of in the mid tier of the business, if you like. Well, okay. So I wanted to talk a little bit more about creep show, because as you say, that's coming out, though. Sorry. Yeah. But I mean, it's interesting in the context of what you're saying, sometimes those side projects are hugely important. I was introduced to it by a friend of mine who runs a show called Electronic IRS, which he would love, by the way. And, you know, I think it was yawning abyss that I heard on a recent show, and I expected it to be more experimental or harder to access. But actually, it's not. It's like gorillas, except it's better.

Unknown: 22:36

It's a little like pop treat. I mean, it is it is a fun. I mean, I get to work with, you know, one of my all time heroes was Stephen Melander, from Cabaret Voltaire. I'm in the middle of touring all around, and, you know, and then there's, there's a one week window that's allotted for me to write the lyrics. And, and Stephen comes to Iceland to do that, and you're just thinking, Am I going to get it? You know, I wake up every morning, sort of in dread, you have one of your all time heroes staying with you and working with you. And he also happens to be like, an incredible human being. So there's no weirdness, or awkwardness or anything like that. It's just two peers working together. You know, which is, which is unbelievable to me. I mean, it's sort of a dream come true for me. So, there, I would talk about success in my own life, you know, because I get to work with him, you know, and I get to know him, and then you know, then you're getting up every morning. It's like, you've got it, you've got one week to do to write a song a day. You know, there's basically music, and there's already music and creep show, some of it I worked on. But when I went down there to work for two weeks, in June of last year of 2022. I got COVID, a couple of days into that state, or I mean, I had it when I went down there and then and I was sick for the entire time. I mean, I was in bed the whole time we got had like maybe four days out of those two weeks where I was able to, and then everybody else got it down there too, you know. And so that two weeks was basically nothing. And we had like two or two to four days where we actually were able to where I was able to work on some stuff. And one of the things that I really worked on was yawning abyss. I mean, I created a song called the music for a song called the bellows which is going to be on the new record. And then the rest of the music was stuff that the other three guys put together. And I loved all of it. So that was great for me. And so you know, we Steven came for that one week, in October of last year to where we're doing the lyrics together. When it comes to something like yawning abyss, I'm the one that seen on that. So I do the lyrics for that whatever he sings, he writes. So that's how it was and every morning I'd wake up, you know, excited about it, but also just like knowing that you don't, that it doesn't just happen, you know, um, you, you have to put your best foot forward, you have to, you have to say, you know, I'm you, I'm excited, I'm gonna go in there, I'm going to do my thing, I'm going to do the best that I can. I've done this, you know, many, many times, so I know that I can do this. But then, you know, there are so many variables that are involved in creativity, it's a bit of a skittish creature, and you have to sort of, you have to put in the time, and you have to, you know, what you get out of it might not be very good. On a given day. One of the great things that I've heard from other musicians is something that guy Garvey told me, and I think he said that somebody told him this, whenever you're writing, you're just clearing out, you know, it's, it's this pipe that things come through, and you have to just keep it flowing. So the good stuff comes from the same place, you know, and you have to get that other stuff out of the way on the day, say, maybe that you're struggling with the variables of the creative process.

Keith Jopling: 26:01

I heard that from now Rogers on this show, actually. But I think it was Ennio Morricone, who told him you have to write every day, you know, as a process. It's variable. But I loved that first group show project it was and it felt quite light of touch. You know, it sort of comes across as being something that is away from the pressures of making, I guess, another John grant record. And I assume as well that you've learned a few tricks, electronic tracks from bench, but then he'd made the music earlier, so maybe not. Yeah,

Unknown: 26:35

he's, I mean, not as much on this one. Because, you know, the, our schedules didn't really allow us to work together. And when we tried to work together, we all got COVID. And, you know, it was, it was a drag, but like I said, what the three of them did together. I love so much that it was really not a problem. But yeah, it was less of me learning. You know, being in the studio, I couldn't really be there in the studio with them for the music part. And being in bed with Benj. In his studio is one of the greatest things in the entire world. I mean, he's one of the greatest people I know. And he's an expert at sound designer, you know, and he knows since inside and out, truly, like, the back of his hand. So, I mean, you know, making making the record lovers magic with him, was one of the happiest times of my life being in that studio with him. And Paul, the bass player for Midlake. That was really incredible. So, and then, of course, there's a fourth member of crepes show, who's Phil winter, and he's usually on percussion duty. And so it is a lighter, it is a lighter thing. I mean, there's a lot of levity, levity, and there's a lot of lightness to it. But it's also, I mean, it's got a nasty edge to it, you know, but this record, you know, cut back to what I was talking about, I'm having that week to do all the lyrics for this record. And then that's it. And I just sort of, like I said, I woke up with dread every morning, like, am I going to be able to bring it, and I did bring it, you know, every day, it just, it just sort of flowed out of me. By the end of that week, we were done with it, basically. So I was really pleased, because I didn't know whether it was gonna happen. All I could do is wake up in the morning and say, I'm going to go in there, and I'm going to show up ready? And you know, and do it. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 28:30

it's a contrast, isn't it to the way you're working now. And you're working on your own project, because, as you say, creativity ebbs and flows, but when you've only got two weeks to get it done, it's kind of interesting to be in that situation. There

Unknown: 28:44

are definitely days when I go into the studio and just stare at the wall. And that has to be okay. I mean, there's so much I have so much equipment that I don't know, well, you know, that it's, there's always stuff to do, there's always manuals to be read, there's always sound finding, experimenting on all these different senses that I have and finding sounds and, and cataloging you know them and writing them down so that you're able to access them easily. So there's all sorts of things that you can do. You know, if you're not feeling it on the lyric front, or if you're not, if your mind and your heart isn't, like there's a lot of songs on this record that are that are difficult, you know, thematically and they're difficult spaces to inhabit because they're painful, you know, and they're so I work on the sounds then you know what I mean? So I guess the crib show thing was like, I didn't really have to worry about the sounds as much, you know, I got during that time I was down there, I got to do one. I basically built one track from scratch, which was the bellows and added a bunch of stuff to what would become yawning abyss, this sort of synth riff that's over the top of that, which is like, almost way too optimistic for my case. But that's what came out of me because at the end To the day, the end of the day, I am a very optimistic fellow because I keep showing up and keep, you know, working at how to show up. So yeah, at the end of that week, it was finished. And now it's going to come out in June.

Keith Jopling: 30:11

Have you talked about playing live? I don't know if you did it with the first record actually did. Did you do any live stuff together?

Unknown: 30:18

We did a we did a few shows. Yeah. Okay. And we're gonna be doing, like 789 shows with this one, too. Okay, great. Over the summer. And you know, we'll be going into rehearsals for that. I can't remember when that is but so yeah, June and July will be creep show. Album. Like I said, the album comes out in June. And this the single yawning abyss just came out. And there's another one called bungalow that's going to come out either today or Monday. Yeah. And that sort of sounds like, that sounds like one of those beautiful ballads from yellow.

Keith Jopling: 30:52

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing there is, it's safe and sound, isn't it the closing track of the first record, and it's, it's almost like a Scott Walker, or Frank Sinatra or something, but it just has a beat that comes in, you know, behind it, but it is, it's a classic balance, which is pretty cool.

Unknown: 31:12

And, you know, that's what this that's what this bungalow track is, it's sort of, I guess it's sort of what I wanted that one to be.

Keith Jopling: 31:21

Thanks for listening to the art of longevity. I hope you're enjoying the conversation so far. Please take a moment to rate the show, leave a review on Apple podcasts if that's where you're listening and do spread the word. Also, you can sign up via the songs, familia webpage for our newsletter, artwork, and much more. Back to the conversation. I'm from home. And I wanted to ask you about the Icelandic flocks, because I missed it. By the way, I was on holiday in Greece, and I had major FOMO. But I kind of checked it out since and read a lot about it. It was a big success. I mean, would you like to do something like that, again, curate a festival and kind of be at the center of have an event in that way. I mean, it was obviously unique circumstances because I think it was the European city of culture year. Yeah,

Unknown: 32:13

I loved doing that. I mean, I had a lot of help. It's a big team effort, you know, that sort of thing. But I met some incredible people. And I really, yeah, it was a wonderful experience. And there were so many great artists. You know, speaking of that, it makes me feel like, if I could cry, I'd want to cry over the death of Prince Polo. You know, who took part in that festival and was one of my acts at that festival. He's one of the greatest things to come out of Iceland and anybody that doesn't know Prince polos work. I mean, if you don't speak Icelandic, you're fucked. But I don't really think you need to understand the language to to appreciate who he is. So I mean, you know, Susanna sanfur Was there who's one of my favorite vocalists ever, she's sort of a cut above the rest. In this world of copies and knock offs. You know, the Wrangler guys, which are, you know, when they're without me, their Wrangler. They came up and did a DJ set, and then also played as well. And goes digital, which is in Aurora from sugar cubes. And this musician who goes by the name curver. They came up and did a show. I mean, it was so incredible. And one of my all time favorites from another Norway favorite. Lindstrom?

Keith Jopling: 33:33

Yeah. Okay, you're making me feel the FOMO all over again. I mean, I was reading accounts of people dressed up as you as well, which is just so typical hole. I just fucking love that.

Unknown: 33:43

Well, I love Hall. You know, every day that I don't get to go to thieving Harry's in Hall is like another small death. It has

Keith Jopling: 33:52

a very strong ties with Iceland, obviously. I mean, my dad was a whole trawlerman Before the cod wars. So I remember that time as a kid.

Unknown: 34:01

I mean, it's an incredible place. And I won't hear anything different from anybody. It's really, I mean, I find it visually beautiful, too. I find it striking. It's incredible. The people there was so lovely. I mean, it was great. I have a very, very special place in my heart for Hall because it also it also birthed you know another one of my favorite things in the world which is Throbbing Gristle. And you know, later the music of you know, Cosey, Fanni tutti and Chris Carter is Chris and cozy. Which you know, at least at least one of their albums got it is on my top 10 of all time. You know which one? Well, it's Chris and cozies exotica an electronic masterpiece.

Keith Jopling: 34:42

People don't think of hollow as being somewhere on the avant garde, but yeah, they can be they can get there occasionally. Oh,

Unknown: 34:49

I mean, it's incredible. You know, like Sheffield, it's one of the musical centres of the universe for me.

Keith Jopling: 34:54

This is when I'm proud to be British is when we welcome musicians like you and to our Well, because we didn't work, it was something about British culture and also those northern towns, those great northern industrial towns, where we kind of welcome in the weird. And the alternative.

Unknown: 35:12

Yeah. And not in a way of like, viewing an animal in a cage at a zoo. Oh,

Keith Jopling: 35:17

no, not not. No, not at all. It's a welcoming. Open arm. Yeah, it is. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, again, back at the festival, I really loved these accounts of you just mixing and mingling with, with the audience, because you can do that there. You couldn't do it in London? Probably.

Unknown: 35:35

No. Well, I mean, it's just harder. Logistically, it's sort of impossible, you know. But, you know, it was it was a great experience. I have to say, so yeah. I mean, based on my experience with that, I'd love to do it again. You know, I mean, I'm

Keith Jopling: 35:50

wondering if you could do something like that in Reykjavik? I wouldn't want

Unknown: 35:53

to do it here. Okay. I'd want to do it somewhere else. Yeah, they don't. They don't need me here. I mean, that's a whole nother conversation. But okay.

Keith Jopling: 36:02

John, I have one other question I was dying to ask you, which is another quote, which has kind of changed my perspective on life music a lot, because you said, this is the quote, I didn't know when you write the songs, and you record them, you haven't learned to sing them yet. You learn to sing them on the road, which I think you quoted in a conversation with Elton John, I read it in the observer, which has really changed my enjoyment of gigs to some extent, you know, I've sort of discussed that concept with a lot of people on the show. Because I'd always assume singers nail the version they want in the studio, and then try and replicate it live. But just tell me more about when you discovered? No, actually, you really learned the song after that process.

Unknown: 36:43

After you see the way that you're performing it live. After, you know, several months, it's so much better than the vocal performance you did on the record. Because I mean, for me, I'm just trying not to fuck up, I have to sing something a million times. You know, I don't just I'm not one of those one take wonders. And you know, maybe it's because I don't do it enough, I don't know. But there's so many variables and nuances to the performance of a song, I find it very difficult to be in the studio, I much prefer the live experience, I don't know there's something very difficult about the the pressure of having to get it right, that I find very difficult when doing it in the studio. And, and then there's all sorts of difficulties with finding the right mix, so that you can sing in tune with all the bass you got going on. And for me, personally, I really feel like I don't really ever sing the song correctly until I've been performing it live for a while, you know,

Keith Jopling: 37:40

it makes total sense. But it came as a revelation to me at the time. But it doesn't make sense. Because I guess when you're in the studio, you have all those variables, it can only be one version of what it could have been.

Unknown: 37:51

Right? Like when I listened back to Mars off of Queen of Denmark, I'm just like, oh, boy, I could have done so much better. But that's not fair. You know, that's not fair to say. I mean, it is what it is, you know, it's it's a moment in time. And that's just as valid as, as that moment that you do it in the live setting. You know what I mean? I try not to judge it. But a lot of times I look back and I'm like, oh, I should have done this and or I should have done that. Or oh, I should have sang it 10,000 more times. You know, when I'm writing a song, I just want to record it. I don't want to sing it 600 times before I put it down, you know, I mean?

Keith Jopling: 38:29

Just totally get it. You'd risk getting fed up of it by that point, I would think. But no, it's really transformed my experience of gigs because I'm always kind of listening out for it now. It's ruined the records, though.

Unknown: 38:41

Well, it's funny, you know, because I will always you know, people make fun of me for loving boys. Let's dance is so much. Yeah, but when I hear live versions of less dance, it's cool and everything but nothing beats that. That recorded version for me. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 38:55

right. Absolutely. Okay, one last thing. The design work on your record on all your albums is again just satisfyingly odd, pleasingly weird. Who do you work with on that stuff?

Unknown: 39:09

I worked with Scott King on the last two. And I worked with Anton caldo algo son on the third one, and Michael Berman. Who was doing photography on that. That was on great tickles. Yeah. On pilgrim ghosts. I can't remember who was doing it. Yeah, it was the Swedish woman who was doing the graphic design on that putting things together. But I would say that I designed that one and put it together and just sat with her and she did what I can't do because I'm not a graphic designer. And I worked with a photographer by the name of whoever this fits on here and I slept in Iceland. And then Queen of Denmark was my friend Melanie, Melanie little in Texas. Okay. She did the graphic design on that for me. And those were all my Photos. Once again, it's usually my photos except for maybe the cover shot but Queen of Denmark was my was my own photo as well.

Keith Jopling: 40:09

Yeah, it's very symbiotic with the music. It sort of, you know, gives you the strangely beautiful concept that's you're invited into, I think, a different world with your records both through the graphics and and the music. Is that part of a manifesto in a way?

Unknown: 40:30

Oh, for sure. For the last two records, I've had books of my photos that go along with the record or part of as part of the artwork. And yeah, I mean, it is so part of it. I mean, I really feel like, I feel like those like my records look pretty good, although I'm not really crazy about the font on the front of Queen of Denmark, which is why I changed it. So some, some of them have a totally different font on them, because I'm really a fan of drawn fonts. And I really love the 70s You know, when it comes to fonts and drawn fans, so although the 90s, you know, had gems like, I mean, you couldn't follow PJ Harvey or Portishead their album artwork was always pretty incredible. And Mazzy star and there were a lot of great ones. And Bjarke

Keith Jopling: 41:21

Yeah, of course. But I mean, it was the age of the CD. So everything had gotten smaller. The 70s work of I mean, that's like the hypnosis catalog. Have you seen that?

Unknown: 41:32

I'm sure I have. But I'm not sure.

Keith Jopling: 41:33

Yeah, it's the it's when they used to spend, you know, 50 $100,000 on a piece of art for an album cover. And it was the agency that did it. Yeah. So they did 10 CC, they did the Roxy Music stuff, the Pink Floyd stuff, UFO, all that stuff, which I think is making a comeback. I mean, in a way you're doing your version of that. And I think, you know, it's partly vinyl, but also partly the visual world that we live in. I think it's a great thing.

Unknown: 42:00

Thank you. I mean, that is hugely important to me. It's almost the most important thing. Like, you know, the, the font and the design and the photography and the art, whatever. I mean, Sonic Youth does incredible stuff, too. You know, they've always got these artworks. You know, I have all sorts of books of, you know, album artwork, that I'm constantly poring over to, you know, try and figure out, you know what, it's going to be like, Bjork stuff, you know, her her album covers, or, you know, they never, never disappoint.

Keith Jopling: 42:35

Yeah, it's exciting. It's really, you know, it's part of the excitement of seeing new music from someone like Bo. That's like the whole package. The art of longevity is recorded at cube West studios in Acton, and sometimes at the QB studios in London's Canary Wharf. Cube is the world's first members, studio for musicians podcasters, and content creators, and it's a real sanctuary for London's independent inspired creators. It's a real pleasure to record the show here. Even though I do this show, because I'm interested in the creative process, particularly how its launch of us, because it ebbs and flows, not just day to day, but you know, from decade to decade, I get a sense of there is a pressure, it's not just turning on a tap, and creating, which I think a lot of people feel that's, that's the life of a musician. It's like, okay, that's your job.

Unknown: 43:35

You know, like for Lana Del Rey, and everybody here in Iceland, it just, you know, they're just super relaxed and don't care about anything. But as far as I'm concerned, they're not living in the real world.

Keith Jopling: 43:47

That's interesting. I mean, because I think what's amazing about Lana Del Rey is the quality of those records. I just, I mean, especially the bunnies, one tunnel under Ocean Boulevard, which I think is the best thing she's ever done. But it comes off the back of you know, one that was, you know, blue banister six months ago, as you say, Yeah, I guess she's still in the first half of her career. And there's something that is just pouring out of her. But there will be a time when I guess she goes through a period where that's not happening. And I think that's just be interesting to see what happens.

Unknown: 44:21

I mean, what number album is this for her and somebody who's been who's been on the scene for maybe? How many years? Maybe maybe 10 years? Yeah.

Keith Jopling: 44:29

10 Since video games, yeah, maybe it's 10 or 12? Something like

Unknown: 44:32

that. Yeah. Is she doing that alone? You know, I mean, how do you I mean,

Keith Jopling: 44:37

I mean, there are so many producers on this new record. And of course, she's collaborating with people as well. So I don't think she's doing it alone. But she's driving it obviously. You know, it's, you know, she's controlling that what she wants to do. Yeah, I think it's incredible. It's

Unknown: 44:52

gonna be great. It's gonna be beautiful. But I don't really know how to be anything other than what I am. Do you know what I'm saying? I

Keith Jopling: 44:59

think a lot Robots once you've made your records, it is in other people's hands, right? I think it's the people you work with. It's your label your management, their teams, you have to let them do their job. But it's very interesting because I asked people, you know, when they feel they crossed the Rubicon, in that they could keep on making records and not have to go back to waiting tables. I feel like you've got there. But then what you're describing is that still a pressure to do well enough to make a living. And that's the position a lot of professional musicians find themselves in.

Unknown: 45:36

You know, I'm being pressured to, like become a, an Instagram personality to become an influencer. Because, you know, I'm being told you know, you you can't you can't survive in this business unless you do this. Now. It's now now there's this new thing that I have to do, that I have no desire to do. It's

Keith Jopling: 45:56

very dangerous, though. Because I think once you succumb to, you know, creating that type of content, I don't know how you find time to make the records and make them as good as they can be not not in a sustainable way. I know why you're being asked, because there's a pressure on on behalf of those who are marketing your record to have the same sort of content that others are working with. Right. To me, it's it's, I think it's something to resist.

Unknown: 46:24

I think so too. I mean, I just, I mean, I could, yes, I could become a calm comedian on Instagram, but I'm trying to do this other thing. Of like, creating music and other records is gonna be great. It's just, it's a difficult process.

Keith Jopling: 46:42

Who's producing it? Can you say?

Unknown: 46:44

Yeah, this guy I ever guessed. He did hurricane with Grace Jones and prohibition with Brigitte Fontaine to my favorite artists. Yeah. Nice. And he's doing Grace's current record that's going to be coming out soon. He and I are working together and it's going great. And everything. It's there's a lot of beautiful ballads on it. And then there's a bunch of really funky shit. Because I needed to funk out. I definitely won't give up.

Keith Jopling: 47:10

Definitely don't give up. I think you gotta get through it. And I look forward to hearing it. And there's a lot of people out there would look forward to hearing it, whatever it is. Yeah, that's up to you. You can do whatever the fuck you like. I'd love the conversation. I wish you all the best. And I can't wait to hear the record. And the creep show one. Thanks so much for joining me. Yeah,

Unknown: 47:31

thank you, Keith. It's been a pleasure, man. Thank you for having me. Thanks,

Keith Jopling: 47:34

John. Bye.