The Art of Longevity Season 7, Episode 7: The Walkmen

Following the highly accomplished 2012 album Heaven, cult American indie band The Walkmen went on hiatus. But now they have reformed. In a recent interview with the band’s frontman Hamilton Leithauser, Vulture magazine referred to the now infamously long career break as “a particularly noticeable void”. 

I would go a lot further than that. I (and a million other fans) grieved the loss of The Walkmen, because in the indie landscape they offered something unique. The ramshackle but classic rock sound (could any band sound more analogue?). The authenticity of those songs. Hamilton Leithauser’s signature voice. Most bands have a manifesto to stand out from the rest, but The Walkmen didn’t need to say it - they were truly el differente. 

Hamilton didn’t know if anyone would remember or care much but he turned out to be wrong about that of course. The Walkmen’s legend has matured nicely in the intervening 10 years that they have been away. 

But the interesting thing is that culturally, the band never really went away. Their songs and fandom lived on through the extended break - even grew in their absence. This is perhaps the true miracle of music in the streaming era. Hamilton and the others were surprised and delighted to return to playing shows to loyal audiences both old and new, the younger fans among them singing every word of those old songs. 

In the modern music biz, when the talk is of “always-on” creation, 24/7 content and acute FOMO, maybe the most valuable move a band can make is to not succumb to any of that, but to instead have the nerve and the confidence to do what’s necessary - even if that is nothing. Hamilton puts the stresses of modern day bands into perspective though:

“It’s exhausting physically and mentally - in the long run. After you’ve done a bunch of records you think “do I really wanna do another rock & roll record, no I don’t think I do”, then it becomes about what you really want to do next”. 

With six albums and some older EPs to perform, there is no need - not yet - for any meaningful discussion about new material by The Walkmen. But it is reassuring and exciting to know that Hamilton and bandmates haven’t ruled it out. For now we can be happy enough that a particularly noticeable void has been filled. 

Transcript

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Unknown: 2:44

Hey there. Thanks for having me.

Keith Jopling: 2:45

Hamilton, how are you? And whereabouts are you?

Hamilton Leithauser, The Walkmen: 2:48

I am doing well. I'm in I'm at home in Brooklyn, New York right now.

Keith Jopling: 2:53

Okay, and how is it that because I'm set in southwest London pretty sweltering here. I guess it could be worse in Brooklyn.

Unknown: 3:00

It's hot as hell here.

Keith Jopling: 3:02

And where are you? Are you in a home studio? Yeah,

Unknown: 3:05

this is my home studio. I built it on the ground floor of my house because I got so sick of. It's not big, but it serves my purposes in it. I got so sick of the New York practice basically after like two decades, I couldn't take it anymore, like dripping toilets on our heads and stuff like that down in the sub basement of some behemoth building.

Keith Jopling: 3:23

I just couldn't take it. Yeah, you get to a certain age. It's nicer to be at home.

Unknown: 3:27

I guess. I mean, you know, it hasn't turned out anybody works at home, I guess there's a lot more of now knows that. It's weird, because you'll be like, you know, it's time to pick up the kids at 430. And like, I'm still in my bathrobe, you know, and like, you realize you gotta run out the door. I do miss kind of like having a place to go and like deadlines don't have any deadlines anymore. So rarely do I have a deadline? You have to be good at keeping your own schedule. Otherwise, you'll just sort of fade out and nothing.

Keith Jopling: 3:52

Yeah, I get it. Well, look, I could say Welcome back to the music biz. On behalf of the Walkman anyway, but of course you've never been left. You haven't and most of the other members haven't. But I've just I know. It sounds like a stupid question. But what does it mean? If I said, welcome back to the Walkman, like do you feel since you made this decision in the announcement, but there is a machine ramping up behind you? Like how does it all work? Well,

Unknown: 4:20

I mean, we're all very good friends. And we're friends from one of our kids. We're and we're close. So I mean, we've been distant last couple years, but just because we've all been working on stuff. And getting this together was it just sounded fun to me. Just, you know, for a while I didn't want to do the Walkman because I was tired of doing the Walkman. But then it had been put to me suggested a few times that we do it but I personally have never really wanted to. But this time just sounded like a fun. I think our manager put together in a little package that it seemed like it'd be easy and fun and why not try it and then it was kind of like why not?

Keith Jopling: 4:56

That's a good move by your management to kind of make a fun sheduled a bit because knowing how these things work, you've been away for, you know, a decade, you would have been in commercial demand all that time. So like, as far as your kind of industry partners like label management, all of that they must have the patience of saints in a way to wait for you.

Unknown: 5:18

I guess. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, there's definitely eye rolling, if you're gonna do like, you know, I want to work on to a solo tour right now, or whatever, on my solo stuff actually ended up going pretty well. But but, you know, there's definitely a sort of timid questions about why are we continuing to tour here, what's what's going on, you know, but, um, it just wasn't a place where we did it for 14 years. And before that, we'd all been friends in Washington, DC, when we were kids, like, we'd really been doing it for like, I don't know, at least 25 years or something.

Keith Jopling: 5:49

I mean, from the point of view of fans, I'm one and you know, there's, there's a million others or so. So the we kind of went through a little bit of a grieving process, I guess. And yet, the solo projects, they definitely, they make a difference. And you get into those and you live with it. First of all, it's sort of so rare anyway, for a band to kind of quit, so to speak at the top, or while you're ahead. I had the feeling that was the case with heaven Earth, that's what most people say, right? 2012, he made an album called heaven that was, seemed to be moving forward in leaps and bounds. So was it a case of just yet okay, let's quit while we're on a high or was it just that we don't want to carry on because we can't see the next project?

Unknown: 6:34

It more of the latter it was it was more of a, we'd sort of felt like we'd taken it to a logical conclusion, all of a sudden, it's We weren't planning on it. I had sort of considered the idea of doing a solo project, but I never wanted to, like abandon the walk. And that was never my plan. That only I wasn't even going to announce, make any announcement like that only accidentally got out. And then unfortunately, the story became, like, bigger than anything else we were doing at the time. But there's no force that like we don't we never plan anything. We still don't. I mean, that's actually true. That's not just like a line. So when we finished that record, and did a big tour on it, it was time to write more songs. It was kind of like, okay, we're getting there. I think maybe we even Walt and I met and started working on something we're like, you know, it hurts just not in this right now. Like, I want to try something else. And he was like, Yeah, I mean, I agree. There's nothing unfriendly about it. But it was like, let's just try something else. And I went on to try to make some symphonic music for a while and, and I do a lot of soundtrack music now. And then I made a couple of rock and roll rock and wall went on to make kids records. And Paul does a lot of soundtrack music too. And, and the other guys play with people. And, you know, that's what we wanted to do for that many years. I can't speak for everybody else, how long that lasted. But I didn't want to get back together until we did to be honest.

Keith Jopling: 7:49

Yeah, and, you know, in a way, it's not that unusual. I mean, certainly for musicians to do what you just described, I take on other projects. I mean, that's what you know, a lot of creators want to do.

Unknown: 8:00

Basically, you look at our friends and 100% of them had been doing side projects and solo projects that we were just like, monogamous. We were like, caught in this marriage that you can't get out.

Keith Jopling: 8:10

Yeah, I guess that's the difference. When you're in bands, and you're in bands. Hopefully, you've been in since school friends. Yeah. But even you know, on this show, so the idea is to sort of talk about the secrets of what got bands through the ups and downs, or artists through the ups and downs of a long career, but, you know, had Tears for Fears on they took a 19 year break, you know, suede took a 10 year break. And James kind of almost as long as you so in a way, it's a good idea.

Unknown: 8:39

It's, it's, I mean, it's exhausting being I mean, it's exhausting physically, when you're traveling and stuff that like that, it's exhausting mentally, when you're have to, you know, you don't get very much sleep and do all that kind stuff. But it's also exhausting mentally and more of the long run when it becomes hard after you. After you've done a bunch of records. It can be hard to look at and say, Well, what do I actually want to do? I want to do another rock and roll record, like, you know, I don't think I do and then and then you think, Well, what is this? And we're just the five of us. And you don't know. I mean, I love playing music. I was well, I think and it can be that sort of like one of the scariest questions of all is like what do I actually want to do? You know, it's you've got yourself there, you have the freedom to do it, and which is amazing privilege. But but then you don't want to repeat yourself. So then you can get caught in this funny moment of what the hell am I doing here?

Keith Jopling: 9:30

It's just the relentless nature of the business when you are a commercially viable band or artists, right, because it's an album, you have to make a new album to go on tour, and then you're touring that relentlessly. That quickly disappears and then you have to make you have to write and create a new project.

Unknown: 9:51

Right when we started and we released our second record bows and arrows was when Napster happened and people stopped buying records. And then we adjusted everything to become sort of a touring model. And we got along fine with that. But you know, that's tough, but we can do it. You know, every job is tough and we learned to make that work. And then COVID came and that took all that away. And now it was like it was like a real 360 box and feeling that was awful. That was all for a lobby open. It was really bad to do in my business to

Keith Jopling: 10:25

the art of longevity is presented with Bowers and Wilkins, the revered British Premium Audio brands, Bowers and Wilkins make some of the world's finest audio products from the iconic 800 series loudspeakers trusted by Abbey Road Studios for over 40 years to the flagship px eight wireless headphones. This is music as the artist intended you to hear it. Your back now playing together. I'm very excited about this tour. Let's talk about the UK in a minute. But talk me through the Webster whole run of shows in in New York.

Unknown: 11:00

It was amazing. I mean, all these old friends, so many, I mean, so many young new people to actually a lot of people came, we sold all these tickets. And, you know, I had no idea if anybody's going to remember who we were, and we would just be playing like one random show. So you know, I didn't have a plan to tour worldwide. I you know, I think we were gonna play one show in LA. And put like, two shows up in New York, it was like a, just to see what it was like. And we sold so many tickets. And just people were so excited. It was the idea that we were like, selling out shows and stuff as the Walkman is, it's kind of funny, we got on like a text chain again and started telling each other stupid jokes again, and it was kind of like the, you know, it's funny, you remember, these are my good friends. And you know, and then you know, you hear the songs and you remember that you love the songs that you were 14 years on giving it everything you had to make them work. So I think we're actually better now than we were two. I've said that out loud. Now, like a bunch of our shows. I said the first time sort of accidentally just kind of came I was like no, but now, it's actually true. I think we're a better band. I think we played better. I think I sing better. And I think the songs we are better with like tempos. And so we always had trouble tempo, we were always a little bit of a train wreck on stage.

Keith Jopling: 12:12

That's really fascinating, because I was gonna ask you, like, how much work did you put in? Before those shows? You know, I've seen you live a couple of times. And you're one of these bands that didn't necessarily rely on being tightly drilled. Because actually your sound isn't that right that right anyway.

Unknown: 12:30

Right now, that was never never a thing.

Keith Jopling: 12:33

So did you have to put in the time? No.

Unknown: 12:38

We showed up and played the Stephen Colbert show without rehearsing the rat, we did that as kind of a joke because we couldn't we canceled the rehearsal, but we actually did it. Because it's like, I played that song so many times in my life. Like it's like muscle memory at this point. So I knew we could do it. But it made for kind of a funny story too. But then we rehearsed for the tour because we have a lot of songs. So we had to figure out what we're actually going to play and what we wanted to play and all that stuff. And you know when we play now, we have a rotating cast of like 30 songs maybe that are in there somewhere.

Keith Jopling: 13:08

Well, that's the other thing I guess when you see these bands that are extremely well drilled. So Queens of the Stone Age recently actually, they used to be a bit more ragtag and I've just always impressed because they were tight is anything but I guess you have to sort of stick to the same setlist to do that as well. Right?

Unknown: 13:28

Or just rehearse a lot. Or maybe when you're when you tour like you get the thing down a lot neater. But that yeah, that was never a thing. I just don't like rehearsing because like, first of all, for me, it's a drag because I've been writing songs for like, years and years, the game out and teaching these things again, to someone else. It's just like, I don't find that particularly fun. I also have always found that like, you get too comfortable in it always like something starts to bug you about how neat and tell you this and then you just you can never let that go. And then you have to say okay, we got to stop playing that song. I can't tell you right now.

Keith Jopling: 14:02

I read these accounts of the shows you went on to the onto the floor and met the audience and shook hands and signed signed albums and stuff. But what surprised you about who you saw in, in the audience's there's so many young

Unknown: 14:16

people across the board that we used, it was funny, because like our band really did last a long time. And at the beginning, it was kids our age, and we were like 21 I was like 22 Maybe. And it went on until I was like 35 or something of that. The other guys were a little older than me, but it would be kids our age and then you got older and people would start coming up to you and say oh man, I discovered you in seventh grade. I have a friend who is much younger than me now but you know, I oh man I my pet my dad loves you guys or something like that, you know? And then it gets farther and farther. And now you get to people that say that they never saw you because they were like three years old or something like that when their parents went to see you. And that's awesome. I mean, I'm just glad Did the songs add endurance? I was I was surprised, to be honest. You know, and we were pre internet basically. Or that's not totally true but but you know, we a lot of our thing was pre internet. And we didn't have like social media till like the end of the band. I didn't even have it till after the war. I never had it. So, you know, it's you don't see it. It's not ran down your face every day on the internet. So you think people probably just forgot about you, but then to go out and actually see the people was kind of I was shocked.

Keith Jopling: 15:28

Yeah, it's incredible. I just wondered how it felt as the artists, they must feel good. I mean, I see these kids in the audience's I'll tell you a story. We went to see Billy Joel in London, it was of all people to talk about, you know, playing the same. Yeah, they were kids in the audience, that the age of my kids, so you're basically young adults singing every word as well, then all the words

Unknown: 15:52

can grow. And we have that too. We have people saying more than ever, we have people singing along to all of our songs. That wasn't even ever like our thing before. And now everybody's singing, like so many songs. It's amazing. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 16:04

it is absolutely incredible. Okay, so I wanted to ask you about just a little bit more about that sound. Because in many ways, I was thinking about this how ahead of its time, it was probably just, you know, I don't know, fortuitously or coincidentally, whatever. Because I recently had Stuart murder from Belle and Sebastian, on this program. He was saying how during the pandemic, they turned their rehearsal rooms, into a studio. And it really gave them a new lease of life, and change their sound the way they do things as a band. And that's the way you started at the beginning with the McCarter studios. And then you had all this vintage stuff. And again, with with young bands now, and a lot of young creators, listen to this. And this is flight to vintage, like everybody wants vintage gear, they want to go back into old studios, or they want to look vintage, and you kind of created all of that back in the day.

Unknown: 17:01

I mean, I'll take that. Sure. I don't know. They're just living their life. But I don't know what we created or what we did. What was

Keith Jopling: 17:09

it about wanting that sound in the first place as a team when you got together out of the embers and the two other bands? Right? Did you have a manifesto?

Unknown: 17:19

Now we never had any rules? No, we're just the democracy. And we were sort of aimless and didn't know, you know, we never had like, I don't know, we hated being pigeon holed. I didn't you know, when we when we did the rat, and stuff is exciting. And people want then people just want another rat. And we really didn't want to do that. I think we probably let a lot of people down when we started doing completely different stuff. But that's what we wanted to do. Um, I'm glad we did actually, to be honest, I think that's why we were able to continue on as long as we did, as we found new audiences and new people, some people thought, you know, they were done with us and, and you know, you weren't cool anymore, or something like that. But then other people open their eyes to you. And then you. I think that because we did a lot of different music, it was able to keep going.

Keith Jopling: 18:03

And what was it about using all of the vintage gear? Was it a an influence

Unknown: 18:09

with his Lego guitar? I mean, I really, like all good. We all do. Everybody likes guitar. I mean, if you're into collecting guitars or something, you're inevitably gonna go back to the old ones, because they're just cool and looking. And a lot of them sound really great. So that's just sort of like a collector's thing. But at the same time, you know, we listened to the whole time we're doing the Walkman, very few ultra modern bands were ever like a real influence on us. And we all listened to like country old country music and old rock and roll and and that you get that I mean, there's just no there's no improving on like a Fender amp circuit. So like, and then if you're gonna get one you're gonna want a nice on and the nice ones are the older ones. And they they're cooler looking and they sound better. And once you start begin to know what you're dealing with the equipment. I think a lot of people gravitate towards that unless you're playing a different style of music, but a lot of anybody in our sort of world would be interested in, you know, older guitars, and the old synthesizers are so expensive now it's insane. I mean, it's

Keith Jopling: 19:11

bizarre. Yeah, everybody wants to vintage stuff so they have a prices

Unknown: 19:15

Yeah, I mean, it goes I mean, I'm glad I onsen because I think it's worth a lot more than

Keith Jopling: 19:20

as you said, This tour is gone global. It doesn't surprise anybody but you which seems to some extent, you're coming to the UK, you're playing Coco. Kind of a residency. It's a bit like what you did in New York, because three nights.

Unknown: 19:34

Yeah, we played that once, once years ago was great. I loved it. I

Keith Jopling: 19:38

noticed you're playing Green Man, which is a crickhowell in deepest Wales. So when you come to the UK, what's your approach to those shows? Is there anything different having spent some time with during those five nights in New York and being surprised about who's who's in the audience? Will you just come over and just do your thing?

Unknown: 19:57

I think we'll pretty much just do our thing and we were not practiced. you're anything but we're starting in Portugal. And, yeah, we've made it, we intentionally made the schedule pretty easy by our standards. So, you know, we didn't get like hideously sick of anything, or nobody got hideously sick of each other or anything like that. And that's the other way that we're able to keep going. Because we took a big break. You know, we ended in Copenhagen, like, a month ago, and we now start up for another month. They're

Keith Jopling: 20:23

doing it in a way that's civilized, I guess. Yeah. It's

Unknown: 20:27

like, We're backstage in Boston. And Walt said, you know, being in a band can actually be fun, which was sort of fun, like, very telling.

Keith Jopling: 20:36

Yeah, I think, you know, when you come back after a time, and also when you, you know, just start to get a bit older and more experienced, you know, you want to make it fun, right? You realize that's what you're doing? Yeah,

Unknown: 20:48

exactly. Right, you realize is maybe what you lost at some point along the way. And that's the point of it. And, you know, if you're not going to do it for fun, then you really, probably should just be doing something else, or taking a break, which we did. And that was the right decision.

Keith Jopling: 21:03

Thanks for listening to the art of longevity. I hope you're enjoying the conversation so far. Please take a moment to rate the show. leave a review on Apple podcasts if that's where you listen and do spread the word. Also, you can sign up via the songs familia webpage for our newsletter, artwork, and much more back to the conversation. So when I talked to artists on the show, we were kind of exploring this theme or concept that was originally posed by Brown, the son of suede, and it was the kind of the predictable careers of bands, which is a struggle, then arise a sudden rise to success. And then something goes wrong, or there's excess and the band disintegrates, and they had to kind of just regroup. I don't think it really applies to the Walkman, necessarily, because of the way you took that hiatus that time. But again, as a group, did you never really crave fame. Did you never want to necessarily strive for success in the same way that maybe we assumed most bands do.

Unknown: 22:06

Now we did we did we were working for it. No, we always did. Those what we're doing. I mean, you want to you want to promote your record, and you want to go out we love playing and stuff. But we didn't. We weren't. We're not a good business. But we were business. And we tried to get what we could get. And but if you ever got to the Senate, if we ever gotten a situation where the feeling was like this is just monetizing our thing, it really made us all uncomfortable. And then the check it out to you real good for you to not feel uncomfortable about it again, you know, like, you get to the point like the first thing, the first time I ever remember this happening is when we were in like, it was like 2002 It was really early. And some car company approached us about using our song and AED. And we were still operating on like the 90s sort of like sensibility like Nirvana sensibility of like DIY, you know, turn your back on corporate culture as much as possible, which to be honest, it's still sort of subscribe to but what we the money they offer is so much money. And it was right when Napster was just just sucking up all of our funds. And we were just like, suddenly not making anything even though everybody was like singing along to our songs in the show. Nobody had bought the record, we're like, how the hell do you know these songs? So we said, Sure, use it. And then we just got so much shit about selling out and all this crap. And then like, literally, three months, literally every single band of our class or whatever had their own little like, art piece advertisement that they were getting, like, patted on the back for being a part, you know, it was like, it did sort of feel like Jesus man, like, you know, now like when I get like a iPhone ad or something like that, and it's well done, people call me to congratulate me, they say, Wow, that's incredible, great for you. You know, it's like universally praised. You know, it's just a funny change of pace,

Keith Jopling: 24:07

when it's just as well too, because making money from Sync has become like, almost the most important way to make money, like, maybe second to live. But what's happened with a live business makes that more difficult. So I guess, you know, people can't have it both ways,

Unknown: 24:22

but they don't want to buy the record. I mean, it's, you know, the whole shame of the whole thing is that you can't you can't Paul and I on the Walkman did a record a couple of years ago called Dear god, that was vinyl only, which was Paul's idea, which I thought was just insane. But then after he made it, we both agree like Yeah, so we officially sold the lease records the result because it was only vinyl. But we sold plenty and and we agreed afterwards that it was like sort of the most satisfying method of making records that we'd ever been a part of, because we we made it ourselves. I mixed it I think or maybe we mix it together can't remember then I drive to the post office like 500 records in the back of my car. And they can they got to know the post office people. And it was just as I love doing it probably a physical part, it was like, start to finish. This is what I do. I have like a crap, I have a trade, you know, here I am. It didn't feel cheap. It just felt like this is what I make. And I can sell it and some people will buy it. And that's fun. But when you just launch it off into outer space of like the internet, it just, like guy like me, it's just automatically trounced by like the pop stars or whatever, because I'm just put in the same arena as them. And there's so much louder than me like I'm so it's just kind of the wrong place with this. That's the only way to go about it. It's not great business

Keith Jopling: 25:40

setup. No. And what you described is seems very much the modern way, you know, you sort of see bands, Instagram accounts, and it's exactly that they're kind of printing off labels and, you know, doing unboxing videos for vinyl and things like that. But then you have this classic catalog that sits on streaming that, you know, is right there for the kids to learn all the tracks, right? So it's totally different to when the Walkman started out, I was gonna ask you about just what are the differences you've observed that you like and don't like so much? Well,

Unknown: 26:13

I mean, I don't love the nobody buys the records. I do like having the freedom to you know, the way that computers have evolved. It's a mixed blessing. But I like being able to make music whenever I want at home. And I own I mean, see I have a lot of instruments in here I have like a marimba and I got Congos and I got all my guitars, my drums. And I got my Celeste and all I got all this kind of stuff over here. And so I can just have all that and I don't need a paying time in the studio. And you know, I make soundtracks for films, I'm about to start another one, actually. And I can do that at home. But the flip side of that is I don't have any deadlines and you don't get to go in some really cool room and, and force yourself to make a decision with some friends or whoever and you know, get down to the wire I just so it's you know, it's a trade off?

Keith Jopling: 27:05

Well, it is it brings me on to the inevitable subject of new music. I know you're gonna get asked this, you'll probably have been asked it 100 times already. But I'll start with a funny story. Because as I said, we went to see Billy Joel last night Hyde Park. So he hasn't made any new music in 30 years, right? That's his choice. So he's very cool. He's very funny guy. So he says to the audience, okay, at the beginning, I have some bad news and some good news. The bad news is we don't have any new songs. The good news is you don't have to listen to any new songs.

Unknown: 27:36

We don't have any new thoughts. Yeah, that's good. It's good. I

Keith Jopling: 27:40

guess to some extent, he's just recognizing the fact that nobody really wants to hear a new Billy Joel song that much or at least that's his point of view. But that wouldn't be the case with the Walkman. Are you avoiding the conversation? I mean, how are you even going to tackle it? Because you gotta get asked it. Now

Unknown: 27:57

if some if one of the other guys approached me with a good song idea, I wouldn't be open to it. We haven't discussed that yet. I have a lot of other projects I'm currently working on. But, you know, playing with the guys is brought me back to what it's like to be around them. And it's I like them. And they're creative. Interesting, guys. So I'm not against it.

Keith Jopling: 28:17

It's a different dimension, I suppose. I mean, I've seen a couple of your contemporaries live recently. It's very interesting when they play new

Unknown: 28:24

stuff. Like, you know

Keith Jopling: 28:26

what, I've seen a couple of bands just they're almost apologetic about it sometimes. Especially if they have a bunch of hairs. Yeah, I want to get into that. Yeah. And it's almost like maybe it's a I don't know, maybe it's a confidence thing or or there's some fear there. So they're covering it with a joke. But I mean, they're great songs, and that's what the fans want. It's kind of interesting territory. But yeah, I guess you can just take your time before you even broach that subject. The art of longevity is recorded at cube West studios in Acton and sometimes at the QB studios in London's Canary Wharf. Cube is the world's first member's studio for musicians, podcasters and content creators and it's a real sanctuary for London's independent inspired creators. It's a real pleasure to record the show here. I got a question about some of the brass arrangements. On some of the old Walkman records. I'm thinking of songs like red moon, from you and me, stranded from Lisbon that there's a bunch of them. They're almost my favorite. I mean, they're not my favorite Walkman songs, but the what they stand out for the very reason that the beauty of those brass arrangements which for me was kind of very unique at the time, and a few bands have taken that on since who was behind that?

Unknown: 29:47

Bass. I think Paul was the leader of that era. He started playing a trumpet. He had the idea to do Louisiana as a horn section. And then he's sort of like really To amateur learn how to play the trumpet, but then he was able to like write trumpet parts. And then we could call in some aces to record them. So he would he was the force behind that. Definitely.

Keith Jopling: 30:11

I feel like that this is sort of making a bit of a comeback as well, sort of more bands incorporate brass and string with horns.

Unknown: 30:18

Yeah, yeah, we still bring them out for the for those songs. Okay, so

Keith Jopling: 30:23

as I said, we cover the connection here between art and the business to some extent, and you've never had to have probably any major label bullshit. And you've always been a very indie band and, and work with cool people that I think I sort of touched on this question before. But like, as you come back into the fray, so to speak, what's important to you, in terms of who you work with?

Unknown: 30:47

Well, we still have our same manager, so he runs and our same booking agent. In fact, the booking agent is the only person besides the guys in the band that we've been with since the beginning of the band. And we're still with him. And then we have a UK booking agent we've worked with for years, who is still our guy. So that's fun. That's like saying old friends, the old Bri actually getting back together has been very seamless in that respect. And I don't know the status of our contracts. But, you know, we send so many weird deals over the years, we really, our music got spread so far and wide. And I think maybe in the last couple of years, there's been some, like, we got a record back or something. And then a couple of things got moved, a couple of companies got sold. And we started having to talk business again, together, maybe that was the foundation of what we're doing. Now, I don't even know. But it was the first time we'd actually ever like taught we had never like a zoom call. And you sort of see a red face for the first time. And it's kind of like, it was got bad connection. It's kind of like this. And everybody's, you know, it's just sort of funny, because we're all such bad businessmen anyhow. But to see everybody was just nice. And maybe that's what broke the ice. I don't know.

Keith Jopling: 31:55

It's great to hear you say it. Because there are actually, over the years, so many notorious stories, and very few artists who probably consider themselves to be a good business people. You know, not everybody can be Mick Jagger or whatever. But sticking with the same team, and having that consistency and longevity and the people you work with is super. Yeah,

Unknown: 32:16

I mean, we couldn't have done it without them, but also more willing, we would have done it without them. They put it all together.

Keith Jopling: 32:23

And what about the reconnection? With the fan base? There's a pretty big listening based on the streaming platforms. Your Vantage is continued even during the warp and not being around. What is it about sort of connecting with the audience? Again? Is it purely through shows? Are you interested in kind of the socials aspect that's so important these days? How do you connect with the fans? Yeah.

Unknown: 32:50

Social media is not like the forefront of my mind. But of course, if you're going to try to promote yourself these days, it's I mean, I used to walk around the East Village and put up flyers on on telephone poles and stuff. And that wasn't great. There's a lot harder now you can post something on the internet. Yeah, for us. It's just about the shows. I mean, we're not making music. So yeah, but I mean, I used to enjoy, I used to do a feature on our website that we called Pete's corner. I actually named it that. But Walt and I actually wrote all of it. And we just write like, stupid advice, and movie reviews and restaurant reviews and stuff. And I always got a real kick out of that. I mean, that was sort of like early that was before like Instagram or whatever that was like early social stuff. And that

Keith Jopling: 33:30

was fun. You think that would be a hit. Now, that's what you know, bands and artists are being told to do buy them management and labels now say, Oh, you got to get out. Okay, actually,

Unknown: 33:40

we will go through them. People will be like, Oh, my God, I was reading the website today. It's hilarious. Oh, well,

Keith Jopling: 33:44

I think you know, maybe part of coming back. You have to bring back Pete's corner or at least consider it. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I mean, I didn't know whether to ask you this. Because I know when you first got together in a room, it was at your mom's funeral. And to me there was something emotionally charged in there. That must have been a catalyst.

Unknown: 34:00

Yeah. I mean, that was after we had been sort of talking business on this. I had just actually done this big solo tour right before that. But we had been like doing starting zoom calls about publishing and things like that. And then yeah, everybody came for that. And we realized we were standing there that it was for the first time in 10 years or whatever, nine years, it was the five of us just standing there. And I just said, Hey, so often. And we all know those sort of funny. Yeah, maybe that might have been I mean, I was, I was sure that my mom would be psyched if I got back together. And I talked to my sister and my dad about it. And they were like, you know, I mentioned that the Walkman my good brother ever was everybody was so excited about it. And they said other worlds right in the Walkman are back and they've supported me through all of my solo stuff and everything, but they were they were just so happy to see it happening. And my cousin's in the band too. So it's like sort of a family thing for us. And so everybody was so happy. We just played in DC We did like five nights or something. And, and all our old friends cam and all my like so many different family members showed up and and and they're just so happy to see it. So that's I guess that's really why I'm what?

Keith Jopling: 35:14

Well it's it sounds like it's a joyful thing for you and I'm sure it is for the fans.

Unknown: 35:20

Yeah my kids too they didn't even know what the Walkman was the only my older daughter had seen us one time we played at the Arctic Monkeys. And she was so small, she was barely standing and I didn't have a babysitter because I was like a new parent myself. And my wife was in there. So she was like standing on the side of the stage jumping up and down. You know, I was just worried that she was just gonna wander off out and so the whole time I was like

Keith Jopling: 35:49

that's a cool gig to be Yeah. That's a story to tell. Even if you three and you didn't really take it in at the time. No, it's great to see Alex thanks for joining me. Got it. I couldn't see you a cocoa but I think I'll probably just make somehow make that trip happen. Come on out. Let's have a drink. Or Thank you.

Unknown: 36:09

Alright, take it easy, man. Bye bye.