The Art of Longevity Season 8, Episode 4: Beirut

After the fiasco of having to cancel Beirut’s 2019 tour, Zach Condon knew he needed to take the time out to fully recover. Multiple infections, colds and in the end complicated throat ailments had led him to a total burnout, until finally:

“My manager and my tour manager saved me from myself. They told me I can’t keep touring. I threw in the towel and dissolved the touring group. I later saw the fiasco over refunds and all that, and I felt horrible about it”.

This adversity though, perhaps inevitably, led to Beirut’s latest project Hadsel, which may well be as close as a record can come to being a lifesaver. Hadsel is the album as therapy. Steeped in nature and with a meditative quality to it, it works perfectly as an immersive listen. And it works perfectly too as an expression of where Beirut finds itself as a band (even if on this occasion, Condon did everything himself).

“I was just looking for a cabin but found one with a pump organ so at that point, everything clicked. [this album] is a return to something I can’t put my finger on. But it feels more scrappy and raw somehow”.

If that doesn’t sound like creative progress, don’t worry. If Beirut’s early albums (Gulag Orkestar 2006, The Flying Club Cup, 2007) were unique, and impressive for critics and fans alike, they were essentially the product of Condon’s musical obsessions at the time - Balkan Brass, French Chanson and some mariachi thrown into the mix for good measure. Condon stripped back those styles somewhat on later albums such as The Riptide and No No No. The latter contained a lean set of what you might even call catchy tunes.

Those records were proof that through all the unique stylings, there is a substance to Condon’s work that always comes through. He writes lovely songs with strong melodies. Perhaps in the end, that is why Beirut’s songs have foound their way onto playlists and done relatively well on streaming platforms, especially Spotify.

Zach is both amused and bemused by this at once, not recognising most of the other songs and bands he is juxtaposed with on those playlists (largely in the crudely tagged category of indie). But then his whole career has not been one of following the music industry conventional forms. Instead, Zach has always found an alternative route.

“I’ve always felt that I stood right outside the river. The music industry is this river and it’s always flowing in this direction and there are all these people that are part of it, moving along with it. And I’m outside it, but somehow I've made my living and I’ve found my audience”.

Good thing too, since when music is a destiny calling, there’s no point becoming too attached to the outcomes, just focus on the music from project to project and make it as good as it can be.

"I didn’t really choose music but as an obsessive - music was a type of possession where everything else disappeared. It was an addiction in many ways and still is”.

It may come as some relief to Beirut or not, but somehow through all the adversity of recent years, the winter solace of Norway, and his nomadic approach to music making has literally taken his music even further. 

Full write at https://www.songsommelier.com/

Transcript

Keith Jopling: 4:22

I think the theme of escape is going to come up quite a bit in this conversation. So I guess the place to start, really just to orientate us is around perhaps all album because that's going to be coming out roughly the same time we released this. So take me back to early 2020. When you went to Hansel in Northern Norway, to first start to make this album just take me back to that time how the idea came about how you discovered Hudson in the first place.

Beirut: 4:53

Well, it started before that 2019 would really be the beginning of the story. I had booked this tour for a year. And it was really a world tour. I was supposed to do America twice in Europe, Brazil and Mexico at the end. And I know it was gonna be a tough time, because I've never done well with tour, but I thought I had made some changes, and we can talk about that. So I think that summer, I had started to look for somewhere where I could crash when that was all over. And I'd always been really fascinated with the North, especially the Arctic. And I'd want it to go somewhere like that for years, and I even had wanted to do some music and places like that. Originally, I asked my bandmates, Hey, would you follow me to a studio in somewhere like Iceland or the Far North? And they said, no, no. That just sounds like a cabin fever and insanity to me, you know. So my partner had been to a place called Lofoten before which maybe more people would have heard of this. Little floating islands are this kind of archipelago in Northern Norway that goes way out into the ocean out from mainland Norway. And they're some of the most beautiful places on the entire planet, just really unbelievable scenery, unlike anywhere else. And I wanted to go there. When I saw those pictures, I knew that that would be kind of what I was looking for. However, actually, Lofoten does have kind of a tourism problem, it's really overrun. And it's really pushing the locals to the, to the edge of their sanity, and a lot of ways and their livelihoods. And so I didn't want to be part of that. I didn't want to be around that necessarily. So I started looking a little north of that. And that was how I stumbled on this island called Hutsul. From there, I found a place that had a pump organ in it of all things. I was just looking for a cabin and and then I found one with a pump organ. So I mean, really, at that point, it was you know, everything clicked.

Keith Jopling: 6:50

So you found solace in this winter darkness of of that area of hassle. Because that I mean, the sun doesn't come up beyond the horizon, I guess for more than a couple of hours of light each day. But I know your friends and family and maybe bandmates thought you've kind of lost your mind when you went out there in the first place. But there was something about it worked for you. So what was it that you found solace in there.

Beirut: 7:15

So when I was a kid, I, I was struck with insomnia at a really young age, like 11 years old, I no longer could sleep during the night, I don't know what happened. It was like a switch went off in my head. Family was moving a lot. There's lots of stressors, but who knows what really went on. My parents even took me to doctors and psychiatrists and all sorts of stuff. And it was like nothing worked. And so for most of my adolescence, I would be up all night, whether I liked it or not. And at first, that was a kind of like a water torture situation, you know, up alone, kind of the loneliness and the kind of questioning of reality, when you have that much time on your hands at that age. And you can't move because I would I would be sharing a room with my brothers back then. And if I even got out of bed and stuff and got back in, you know, eventually they'd be up and they'd be pretty grumpy about it. Right? So really just stuck staring at the ceiling all night long. And yeah, it was it was a horrible experience. And then this really amazing thing happened, which was we moved to this house, where I got my own room, you know, my parents finally upgraded in Santa Fe. As soon as that happened, it was like my world changed. And nighttime became everything. To me, it became like my best friend and I picked up recording pretty soon after. But before that I would have been listening to music until five, six in the morning, every day, when I started making music at night. I just it just changed my whole perspective. And all of a sudden daytime became the enemy in this way that it felt like all the stressful things happened during the day. That's how it felt to me anyway, it felt like my family was always stressed out. There was always school, which I hated. There was always work that no one seemed to like anyway. And it just it was like people run around all day doing things they hate, just so they can get home and relax at night. And I was you know, this is this is how my young mind kind of processed this I've since come to realize that obviously I'm a bit extreme. And I'm kind of on the far end of a spectrum here. But nonetheless, that was the idea. And so daytime became this stressor. Nighttime became this comfort, right. And so that was why I was so fascinated with polar night. I was like I just I want to know what that's like. So that in winter winter was another thing that I think quite contrary to many people winter to me meant kind of the warmth and protection of a shelter, you know, like walls against the elements and I feel so much more comfortable and at ease when I'm wearing like a big thick winter jacket protecting me from the outside world than I do just walking around and T shirt feeling like naked and vulnerable and bra all the damn time. So it's all these things that are kind of counter into For some people, but for me, they represent peace and peace of mind. And so that's sort of when I was going up north, I think a big part of it was that kind of background psychology. Well,

Keith Jopling: 10:10

I mean, you described the experience leading up to going to Hetzel as a mental breakdown, which, you know, sounds pretty extreme. So nature felt like it was part of your recovery process, how did that help you being there?

Beirut: 10:28

There's something about winter, that you almost like except rest in a way that you might not in a you know, nicer weather, perhaps where you feel obliged to go outside or something, I don't know how to put it exactly. But there was also just something about being somewhere so beautiful, so obscene ly beautiful, that it kind of puts you in a state of awe about the world, you know, it's hard to kind of be cynical and lost in your own mind when you're in such natural beauty as up there. And I kind of knew that I was kind of drawn to that. And there's this element of like, every day, when there would be those few hours of light, for example, I was out just trudging through the snow, in any random direction, every time for hours until I exhausted myself and I loved it, I felt I really, it was like, I felt like a kid again, when you're hitting a kind of break down that intense, it's good to get out of your head too. As much as possible. You connected

Keith Jopling: 11:27

with the community there, partly through the pump organ, because I think you met someone there who whose job it was to service those pump organs to talk about how you got to know people in that community, and just how that contributed to your, your lifestyle, and vice versa out there.

Beirut: 11:45

Well, when I asked the owners of that cabin about the organ, you know, hey, does this work? Or is it just kind of decoration, because often you see these nowadays almost more as furniture than as an instrument, the way people have kind of given up on them. So they said, Yeah, not only that, but it's kind of on permanent loan from the sky, odd var. He's a, he's a neighbor, he's a family friend, and he collects and he repairs these, and he's got quite a collection at his home. And maybe if you're lucky, you can meet him. And on top of that, you know, he actually plays church organ at the church from time to time, he might even let you in and let you have some time with that instrument too. So of course, I was extremely interested, and got really excited. So originally, that trip was only supposed to be like I said, kind of a recovery, escape type of thing. That was when I started packing the instruments. And that's when I started packing the microphones and tape machine and stuff like that. So I got to know, odd. Well, I mean, first I just met them at the church. And he, you know, just said, Yeah, okay, go ahead. You didn't know who I was. Norwegians aren't like Americans. So not your best friend. The second you meet them. takes a minute. And I liked that. I respect that. I think that's a really nice quality about the kind of Germanic cultures that I think is actually hard for a lot of Americans to understand, for example, because it's, it seems kind of indifferent at first, but it's not, it's just like, just give it a minute. So yeah, the other thing that I would, I would just be lying if I didn't mention this, my girlfriend is she's from Berlin originally. But she taught herself fluent Swedish, which is, you know, random and impressive. And she was speaking with the older generation, they're a lot because Norwegian, Swedish are close enough that they can understand, actually, the younger kids are, they're not doing it as much anymore, because they're just kind of defaulting to English, right. But for the people over 70, they were, they loved it, you know. And so she was inviting all these neighbors over all the time for tea and cake, and they just fell in love with her in a huge way. And that was such a beautiful thing for me, because it was like, I'm not the most social outgoing person, actually. And she was just inviting these people in and they were amazing. I mean, the stories they were telling us about Northern Norway and life, they're like, these are people with families that were whale hunters and fishermen, and, you know, wandering church preachers and just the most interesting, fascinating people. And they're also down to earth, especially coming from a place like, you know, I've lived in Berlin, I've lived in Istanbul for a while in Paris and in New York, and it's like, there is a city person, there's a city mentality, and to kind of get out of that was really nice again, reminded me a bit of being back in New Mexico or something, where it's just people are just a little more down to earth and a little less self conscious in a bad way

Keith Jopling: 14:46

more connected to the environment and where they live, you know, yeah, I appreciate all of that. I was in Stockholm last week and having a conversation about how they are worried about the loss of the language, just because more young people are speaking English. The art of longevity is presented with Bowers and Wilkins, the revered British Premium Audio brands, Bowers and Wilkins make some of the world's finest audio products from the iconic 800 series loudspeakers trusted by Abbey Road Studios for over 40 years to the flagship px eight wireless headphones. This is music as the artist intended you to hear it. So you must have felt, or at what point did you feel that this was good inspiration for making the record? So to add to that, to what extent did you have songs or fragments of songs before you went there? And how much did you take in from those conversations in the environment to into the record itself.

Beirut: 15:47

I'm a big believer when it comes to, you know, inspiration and so on, kind of unintentional work. So I didn't have anything planned, I came up there with absolutely no pre made melodies, or songs or anything, it was all completely from scratch, I was just really hungry to do it. And I don't fully understand why that was, I had a lot of fun making the record before it, where I just felt like, I was really happy to be in the studio again. And it reignited my passion for writing songs and making melodies and constructing songs. I don't think that album was super well received, I think it was kind of like, critically accepted, so to speak. But I feel like the audience was kind of indifferent, if I'm being honest. And I don't mind that that was kind of interesting information to take in in some ways. But I was still just really hungry to do that. Because that is my connection to the planet. You know, when I write a song, I'm like, Yeah, I'm supposed to be here, I'm supposed to be a witness to this, you know. So I didn't have any plans, I wasn't like, I'm gonna go up there and make one record, or I'm gonna go up there and make a record about the place, there was no intentions at all, I literally was thinking to myself, won't it be nice to get lost in a song in a place like that, you know, very simple thought. And I had a lot of time when I was there. So you know, every day, it's like, I would light the fire, I probably burned way too much firewood, they were probably mad at me about that afterwards. But um, light the fire, go out wandering during the, you know, the daylight, come back in and then just get lost in a part, whether that be on the pump organ, or the modular synth kind of setup that I took with me. And I wrote and wrote and wrote, and then I wrote some church organ parts. And I recorded those. And I remember I came back to Berlin two months later. And I remember thinking, Yeah, I don't know if I really got anywhere with that one. You know, that was a fun idea. But I think I only have three or four songs or something like that. But what happened was I just started unpacking everything that I had done up there. And there's just there was just endlessly more and I didn't even realize half the stuff I had worked on up there. So there was all these things leftover like these drum beats that I had done on the modular synthesizer that I didn't remember doing. And I would just pull up a file and go, Oh, yeah. And then I would play baritone ukulele over it or something here in Berlin. So I really, it's like, it's like, I made this huge scrapbook up there of sounds and ideas. And I kind of came back here. And then I just went through it and said, Yeah, this is an ID, I'm going to separate it here, do this, do that. And like a year later, I had the record.

Keith Jopling: 18:28

Okay, so you put the puzzle together afterwards. That's interesting. So let's start off with a couple of songs. I mean, first of all, the title track I'm in that church organ makes itself very present. From the very beginning, I guess, that sets the tone for the record, was that an early song, or an early piece of music that you put together? It was

Beirut: 18:49

Yeah, I was really excited and really nervous about going to the church to record on a pump church organ because I've never done that before. And I knew it was a big opportunity. So I had written the song beforehand on the pump organ, but as not even as a rhythmic thing as a drone. And it wasn't until I got to that organ there that I was like, it doesn't sound right as a drone. And that was where I kind of got that rhythm don't don't do that kind of almost like march like thing with a lot of kind of pump to it like that. That's

Keith Jopling: 19:22

a fantastic opener. Now another song that stood out for me, January 18, both the the theme of the record and I was just intrigued as to what the keyboard instrument is that's playing that melody. So can you tell tell me a little bit more about January 18?

Beirut: 19:38

Yeah, so January 18 is the first day after about mid November that the sun can be seen again, just the tiniest little sliver in between two mountain peaks on from where I was on that island. So you know different for different parts of the island because of the mountains. So after that much darkness Since it's a pretty exciting thing to see it, you know, it's like this mysterious star again, instead of the sun, right? Very weird thing. Like, I remember seeing my shadow again, for the first time after like a month or so being there and thinking, Oh, wow, this is interesting. The main instrument actually was done. I had written that on something in Norway, and then I actually had done it on a keyboard. But if I'm being dead honest, I can't remember what keyboard because it was borrowed from some friends of mine, finished guys that own a studio in Berlin, and I borrowed like, I want to say it could have been a quart Trident or something like that. I forget, it just really had that analog sound that I liked. And

Keith Jopling: 20:43

then also the turn, which is the current single, if we still call them singles, and has one of those beats that you were talking about. But I I'm really curious about the mantra, the lyrics, because it's just this refrain of, it's not so easier. And then you get into not so late to find who you are, which is beautiful, that just repeats throughout. So just tell me what that song is really about.

Beirut: 21:08

I had made this rule with this record to never edit my own lyrics and to not rewrite that was important for me. So that, you know, first thought best thought that kind of thing. And, yeah, what you find on most of the record are just these repeated thoughts, because it's hard to improvise more than one line, first of all, but second of all, that was the kind of obsessive circular state that I was in at the time, you know, just these repeated thoughts. And yeah, that sounds kind of hopeful. But then again, it's not I actually, if I remember, it seemed hopeful. And then I wrote the lyrics down, because for publishing, they ask you what you said, you can, you know, I don't know, copyright, or whatever it is.

Keith Jopling: 21:52

Whatever that thing is, yeah, whatever

Beirut: 21:53

that is, yeah. I never understand any of these things. Yeah. And then I noticed that it's like, it's not too late to find who you are. It's not too late to find who you are. But oh, it's not so easy for me, basically. So that was this constant. There's two thoughts that keep popping up on the record. I think one of them is like, yeah, there's the song where I just keep repeating, I don't believe a word I say. I feel like I've lived a lot of my life and these kinds of delusions and magical thinking, if I'm being honest, and kind of discovering that. And in horror, you know, I mean, a lot of that was about 2019, falling apart on me, after having promised my bandmates and myself like, oh, yeah, we're gonna make it through this tour, you're gonna make money this year. Finally, I'm not gonna cancel shows I'm, I'm all cleaned up, everything's great. Now, just know, that was very different than I expected. So

Keith Jopling: 22:47

you're referring to this thing that happened to your voice, which was really Korea threatening for a person who sings for a living, among other things. So tell me about the recovery process, because I know you've announced some shows in Berlin, which fans are super excited about, and everyone's really pleased to hear that you're ready to come back, but talk me through how you recovered from from that illness.

Beirut: 23:11

And I'm coming back, but that might be it. Like, I might do these few shows and Berlin and call it that might be all I do. Because I want it to celebrate the record. You know, and it's not so much that I hated performing, but tore itself was was murder. So what was happening was, I was getting sick. I mean, it's as simple as that, unfortunately. And the reason I was getting sick, I've really come to realize is because of all the kind of psychological issues that were going on. But nonetheless, on every tour, I would get horrible, horrible chest and throat infections. And then, you know, you can't sing when your throat is completely swollen shut, and you can, you can't even swallow water, you know. So, I spent five weeks on the EU in the US rode on the tour there with steroids and antibiotics for weeks, which is a horrible idea. But I managed, I finished that tours somehow. And then I got home. And then I went on a European tour, and I got sick again. And this time, they put me on steroids, antibiotics, but I still had to cancel it because it got even worse. And then a third tour. And that happened again, a week in I got sick, upper respiratory infection turned into swollen throat. So when you sing like that, you risk getting scarring on your vocal cords, or polyps or worse. And that's where I was when I cancelled the last tour. It was like a doctor took a look. And he said, you know, you stand on this broken leg one more time, and you're gonna you're gonna be deformed, you know, and I kind of knew that and I remember thinking I'll finish the night and then maybe we can't do the next Oh, and that's sad, but at least and I think it was my manager and my tour manager kind of talked on the phone and they they kind of saved me from myself. Actually. They were like, No, you're not doing it. Enough. Isn't Not like something's going on, you're not, you're not up for this right now. And so I cancelled that tour and and then when I got home, I just knew I was like, I can't do the rest of this year, there's no way. And there was this horrible thing where it's like, I'd taken down insurance on these tours, and I had to kind of convince them that I wasn't just, I don't know, making it up, or all this stuff, it was really kind of violating and weird, to be honest. And so the whole thing was just incredibly stressful. And, you know, the band was going home, empty handed. And totally, you know, all these fans were upset. And I didn't even know. But years, like years later, I saw that there had been a huge fiasco with refunds and stuff, and I just felt horrible, horrible

Keith Jopling: 25:42

about it. It's one of the things you know, that we don't tend to think about much as fans is, first of all, the toll that it can take touring and everything else and just battling through things like illness or, you know, lack of sleep or whatever it might be, but also just the responsibility. Because if you don't show up, then there's the whole infrastructure around you that is there because of you.

Beirut: 26:07

Right? I mean, venues, people have booked plane tickets, you name it, it's a horrifying thing. It's one of those things where it's like, I don't want to sit there and moan about it too much. Because, you know, in a lot of ways, it's like, it's a gift that I've been given. But really, for me, Tor was always like, a kind of a form of torture, performances. Not really, but Toria. So, yeah, and the worst part about it, right? You have like, all these people, and it's like, all you have to do is get a cold, which is pretty easy to do when you're sleep deprived, and traveling and blah, blah, blah, you know, and then boom, it's over as a singer. Yeah, so that was very frustrating, very disappointing. But I didn't, I hadn't done the damage I could have done. And that was great. So it's not like I spent a long a long time recovering my voice, which I had done years earlier, I think 2010 or 11. I actually I played a show in Norway when I was very sick. And I shouldn't have but I did anyway. And I paid for that dearly. Because the next month I was in Brazil. And while the cold or the flu or whatever had gone, I had a vocal polyp and I didn't know it. And my voice was cracking right in the middle of my range and a very ugly way. And I had to finish this tour in Brazil, where I could only sing about half of my songs, and would have to make up parts that didn't exist in order to kind of get around these issues. And that took me about six months to have vocal training to learn how to sing around, they could have cut it off. But there were risks with that. So they they told me to try and learn to sing around it. And eventually it went down, it comes back if there's a lot of stress and strain, though. Well, look, I

Keith Jopling: 27:41

wish you the best when you come back to do those shows and Berlin and just take it steady. And I hope that does mean that you can find a kind of way to build from there. Thanks for listening to the art of longevity. I hope you're enjoying the conversation so far. Please take a moment to rate the show. leave a review on Apple podcasts if that's where you're listening and do spread the word. Also, you can sign up via the songs familia web page for our newsletter, artwork, and much more. Back to the conversation. Let's just talk about putting this record out because you mentioned with Gallipoli and it was interesting to hear you say that you've felt the reception to it was different. It certainly was, you know, critically revered. But then all your records are. What about how so how do you feel on the on the cusp of releasing it having came out of adversity and everything is involved in it? Do you feel a sense of anticipation or trepidation? Or just tell me how you feel?

Beirut: 28:42

Well, one of the weird things about it is I mentioned earlier, I finished it not super long after I came back from Hetzel. So yeah. It might have been a year but nonetheless, it's two years later now, which is the longest I've ever finished something to see it put into the public eye a big part of that was just waiting. Everyone was releasing a record after COVID came out and I didn't want it to get lost in this kind of Yeah, waterfall of music that was coming out at the time. Part of it was I was exhausted and burnt out still. Like it's not like I just went there came back and felt better. It's like no, I carry the weight a little better. But that's that's the only difference, you know. So I've actually gone through all these weird periods of like extreme anticipation and worry about how it will be perceived. And then kind of coming out the other side going well, I liked the damn thing. And seems to mean a lot to me and a few people close to me who have heard it. And for me, it really felt like a return to something and it's I like that it's a return to something that I can't put my finger on, you know, because the best I can do is kind of explain that. It feels more genuine again, it feels more. It feels less posed. Like I feel like the lipoly maybe potentially what felt like some of the lack of free Action to some of those songs where is almost by, by my standards anyway, like well produced and kind of bigger and cleaner and kind of more, more professional polish around the edges. And in this one, it just feels like kind of scrappy and raw. And so I'd like to think that that and whatever the hell landed on there with what I was going through is resonating with people because I, as far as I've seen so far it the reaction has been pretty intense. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 30:30

yeah, it was really fun going through your catalog and listening to the catalog, again, from beginning through to now because I was fairly familiar with your early records, which have got all of those kinds of influences on them, you know, the Balkan brass, and then the French chanson of the second record, but I really loved the albums that were just more you so you know, which was, I think, no, no, no. And then the Riptide I can't remember which came first. They were the ones with the catchy tunes on if you like, and it feels to me like this is a continuation of those records because of the simplicity of the songs. But then with this very theme of nature, and Norway and escape and everything running through it as well. Right? Yeah.

Beirut: 31:19

Yeah, it's interesting with those first two albums, what you're hearing is my obsessions, because I was learning, everything was new to me. And I had just been exposed to the Balkan music for the first one. And for the second one, I was trying to kind of integrate all this French music I was listening to. But yeah, I really wear them on the sleeves. And for the rest of the stuff I didn't really I didn't have anywhere to go with that amount of obsession. It was really like, Go your own way. Now. What is your instrument? You know?

Keith Jopling: 31:47

And how will you sense? How this goes down with fans? Do you get feedback? No, you engage on social? If you're not going to play it live necessarily? How do you know how it will go down with the fans?

Beirut: 32:00

You really don't do. But I mean, I'm, I'm on the social media. I mean, I've been trying to post on there because partially because I won't be touring. So how else am I going to engage with fans, you know, so I don't sit there and read it all day or anything. But I do like to see the reaction a little bit. I try to sit for like 1015 minutes after a post and see what people are kind of talking about and see if you know, certain messages pop up. I don't really have time to answer just a ton of random messages. But you know, I do like to look through what people are saying. It's interesting. But I, you know, from a very young age, when I started making music, I always knew that tour would be my issue. And that all I really ever wanted to do was hide in my room and write the songs. I used to dream as a teenager about being more like a producer. Maybe more like, I don't know, like what Rick Rubin does, right? It's just like writing these beats and other people are singing and doing stuff over it. I always envisioned that was more of my style, potentially. Right?

Keith Jopling: 33:02

Well, I mean, Rick just offers a vibe doesn't.

Beirut: 33:07

I'm confused. Sometimes I'm always like, wait, is he actually producing and writing these beats? Or is he just like, meditating in the studio with instance, setting everyone at the right point,

Keith Jopling: 33:16

by His own, His own take on it is he offers his own sense of taste,

Beirut: 33:23

or enough, right? Well, I think he's self taught. But he's, he's making the music behind it. As far as I know. So, yeah.

Keith Jopling: 33:31

I mean, do you read reviews? Do you? Do you get a sense of from peers and the musicians you work with? How else do you kind of get a sense of affirmation about the work that you've made? And again, I say that in a sense of knowing that you've done all this, you've made this record on your own? I mean, you know, you've done everything.

Beirut: 33:53

Yeah, everything on this one. You know, I have throughout the years, I've definitely I've read a handful of reviews and articles. Again, it's not something I dwell on immensely. In fact, I think as a younger guy, I did much more and I think that came from the kind of from a void of my own and really wanting to know that I was doing the right thing and that early on, when people were writing a lot about me online, when I was like 19, and 20 that filled me up, like I needed that so bad in my life back then, if I'm being honest, I really really was coming from a desperate lonely place and was like, what? You like me? Okay. I mean, that's just the honest truth. So and then I went through long periods where I'm like, No, I can't look at this stuff because it gives me that kind of sugar high feeling where it feels like there's no there's no calories in this meal. It's just it's just straight up Sugar Rush and then a crash. With this one, you know, I'm just going for balance. I do like to see the reaction because it means the world to me if it means something to others. However, I would have done it anyway. I didn't really choose music. I Really, it's like, I don't want to just be like, Oh, it chose me. It's more like, I was a, an obsessive, addicted person. And I found that, and it was like everything to me and I, as a teenager, I threw away my life to make music and I don't regret it, not for a second, but I really that's what it took. It was like a type of possession where everything else disappeared. Music is why I dropped out of high school. Music is why I had very few friends. By the time I left Santa Fe music is why I had horrible relationship problems and stuff. It's like it was an addiction and still is in some ways. Yeah.

Keith Jopling: 35:39

Do you worry about attention spans? I do. I worry about attention spans with a record like Hansel because it needs that attentive Listen, it really does. It's not background music. I mean, you could maybe put it on and chill to some extent. But what you really should do is play it repeatedly. And enjoy it in a meditative way. That's how it's going to, I think, do its best work. But do you worry about people having the attention spans and the time to do that these days? I

Beirut: 36:11

do. But why fight a losing battle? In some ways? Yeah, it's frustrating, I get I get that I really do. And this album there, there are songs in there. And I'm not gonna say they don't work on their own. But they certainly need the support of the kind of context around them, for example, but I don't know, I part of me would like to think that people who have stuck with me this far, because they interest in a band, it'll go up, and then it'll go down. And I'm not saying for me, it's really gone down, it's more plateaued. But if they've stuck around this long, they might stick around for the whole album, you know, at least once or twice. And I think that's my hope anyway. But yeah, you're right. It's like, this is what's happening. And, you know, at first when I was seeing that these songs were put on all these playlists, you know, on the like, digital streaming platforms, I guess, at first, I'm really excited. Yeah, cool, is gonna be really spread the word. And then I looked at those playlists, and I was like, I don't know, anyone on. This is like the indie section. And I haven't heard of a single one of these people. And I'm not old. And I still search for new music daily. But even I'm like, There's no way to keep up anymore. Like, I think they say that Spotify adds like over 10,000, or over 100,000 songs a day or something like that. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 37:29

I think that's the current number, or they may have gone up to 120,000. But it's, I think it's great that your stuff does stream. So it finds itself onto those playlists and your music might be in some odd company, and juxtapose strangely on some some of those playlists, but I think it's been good for you and the kind of music that you make that you have connected on streaming.

Beirut: 37:53

Yeah, it's kind of interesting that it's worked out that way. I've always felt like I stood right outside the river, like, the music industry is this river. And it's always moving in this direction. And there's all these people that are a part of it moving with it. And I'm I always felt like I was just sitting right outside of it. And yet, somehow, I've made my living. And I've made an audience. And yeah, but it's a very interesting thing.

Keith Jopling: 38:23

Do you think about these things often as essentially, as a record label owner, because Pompeii records is, it's your label, you created it for your music, which is very much the modern way to what most bands and artists would want to do if they could they choose to do it that way? Yeah,

Beirut: 38:39

I don't, I don't really think about the trends and so on. It has been fun with my own label, because there's so many things that even my manager who's worked in the music industry for God, I don't know, 25 years more, maybe they have all these things set in stone. And when I questioned them, they're like, You don't you don't question that. That's you just do that. And I'm like, Why, though? Have we actually sat down and thought about it, you get these really silly things. So even with the even with the platform, like the social media stuff, you know, they're always like, Okay, first you put the teaser down, and then you do this, and then I'm like, why put the teaser? Why not just put out the work, you know? And they're like, well, because you don't you just do that. Like, I think you're just confusing people but so questioning everything.

Keith Jopling: 39:23

And I think that's it. So as well first of all, as an independent musician, but also as you own your own label. You get to ask those questions. Quite rightly. It's I just read Jeff Tweedy, his book. Let's go so you can get back which is a fantastic book. It's very funny. And Jeff Tweedy is not exactly one of these musicians that you'd say is attuned to the ways and the whys and wherefores of the music industry. But even Jeff says that he enjoys having his own label, just because you can do do it the way you want it. And there are no rules anyway.

Beirut: 39:55

I haven't read the book, but I like how it feels to me from what I've seen. have Jeff in recent years, that he seems to have just kind of come in to himself in this really amazing way where like, you can just see how he wears his own body in a comfortable way that he didn't use to or something. And it seems to be even music and stuff that he's like playful again. And he's like, enjoying the ride, you know? Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 40:19

I agree. It feels like he's come out of a period of finding everything torturous. And I can certainly see why creators would feel that way in the music industry, but also just making all these things work for you. Particularly, you know, a direct relationship with the fans. I put some questions too. There's a fan group of yours on Reddit. And so there were some nice questions that came back from that. And one of them was because you're known to be a traveler? Would you consider doing that kind of work? So how do you keep notes and memoirs when you travel? Would you release those? I think there was one question about whether you maybe released those in graphic novel form, which would be pretty cool.

Beirut: 41:03

Well, actually, they are funny that they should mention that specifically. That has been a very direct desire of mine, I've wanted to do that, in particular, for a while, I feel like the comic book encapsulates how I think very well. Somehow there's something about the pacing of it, and the kind of rather impressions rather than telling you what it is, you know, describing it, it's more like these kind of vague impressions because that's how my mind works. It doesn't pick up. It doesn't pick up very good detail. If I'm being honest. It's more like a vague, foggy movement through the world. And then I kind of pick up these impressions and spit them out as best I can. I would love to do that. That's something I would totally work on. At some point. There's always the nagging imposter syndrome and me that's like, why, you know, am I special enough that it's, it's worth doing, but you know, anyone could write a memoir, and it could be fascinating, too. So I guess I should try and give myself some credit. If that ever were to come to pass,

Keith Jopling: 42:04

I can see a kind of Adrian to mind style comic. Exactly.

Beirut: 42:09

Brilliant, you know, yeah.

Keith Jopling: 42:12

The art of longevity is recorded at cube West studios in Acton, and sometimes at the QB studios in London's Canary Wharf cube is the world's first member's studio for musicians, podcasters and content creators and it's a real sanctuary for London's independent inspired creators. It's a real pleasure to record the show here. Okay, so let's do a quick insomniacs corner section of the show. Because I I'm an occasional Insomniac as well, how are you sleeping? Now?

Beirut: 42:48

These days, I've been on an almost rigid schedule by my standards of waking up around 1130 in the morning and go into bed, probably around 332 3330, which for me is like a miracle. So it's nice actually, it's not that I want to be a night owl all the time, because you do start to drift from society at large, like getting a doctor's appointment. Is this like, am I going to make it at 10 in the morning, you know, I'm going to be jet lagged and exhausted, am I going to make it to the grocery store, etc, etc. So it's nice to be in sync with the world at large, at least to the degree I am right now.

Keith Jopling: 43:28

Do you sometimes get inspiration from it as well? Like, if you're on a bad streak, you know, and you've been up for a couple of nights, but you've just you have got to step into the daylight world like everybody else, but you're doing it in a kind of vague Twilight. But then you can get some epiphanies when you're in that state of mind as well.

Beirut: 43:49

You can. There is something about Yes, stretching the minds, mechanisms until they start to respond in a way you didn't see coming.

Keith Jopling: 43:58

When you were touring back in a touring band. How did you cope with the routine, and sort of dealing with being an insomniac on the road?

Beirut: 44:08

Well, that was the worst part. I often said that my drinking problems came to searching for a way to get to sleep. Though some of the biggest freak outs I've ever had on the road were those nights where it's 435 in the morning, you have to wake up at eight or nine to get on a train or a plane or something to do a very big important thing and you can't for the life of you nothing in the world could put you to bed and it's just it's a type of torture watching your sanity kind of drip away as the hours get later. And that's where the pressure really gets heavy and yeah, that's when you raid the hotel minibar and try to knock yourself out by any means.

Unknown: 44:51

It's gonna help. Yeah, exactly.

Beirut: 44:53

Like that's actually sleep right? Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 44:56

it is the insomniacs curse isn't is kind of when you start to work. worry about just the hours left, knowing that actually, you know, it feels like the clock is ticking and it's ticking against you.

Beirut: 45:09

And here's the thing when you're up that late, you're probably on your own. And so you have no one to regulate with. So you your mind is like, I'm gonna play the worst movie possibility of what could happen tomorrow for you all night long, and no one is here to put a damper on it. So I'm just going to run free. Yeah, that's the problem.

Keith Jopling: 45:29

Yeah, no, it's a disaster as well. Okay, so we just got a fumble on through, but I think sometimes it can be good for creativity, and that it certainly hasn't. When you look at your career, it hasn't affected it in in a sense, other than in a positive way, surely.

Beirut: 45:49

Well, I've, you know, this was my best possible adaptation to the issue I had was to become what I've become, I've made the most of an issue. And I I love that, you know, insomnia in the studio is not so bad. Maybe really,

Keith Jopling: 46:04

I had another question about just the making of the record. And when modular sense came into it, because I think I read that you learned how to play the modular synth. And I realized for other been reading about them for many years, I don't actually know what one is. So what was involved in, in learning how to play and how did you put the modular synth and all the organic sounds on heads all together?

Beirut: 46:27

Well, I brought two suitcases full of modular synth equipment, well, I would explain it this way, if you really don't know how it works, it's essentially one module will have the voice. So it sings a certain tone. And you can change that tone a little bit. And then you get another module that tells that tone, which pitch, it should sync. And then you have another module that tells it how fast or slow it should do those notes. And you have another one that shapes the expression of those notes, whether it's a heart attack, like a TA, or a soft like, wah, and on and on and on. So you, it's just the building blocks of sound. And that's what's fascinating about it is you're taking the most raw, non musical things and turning them into musical sounds. And yeah, it takes a long time. It's like you need an engineering degree practically to get started on these things. But it's worth it. Yeah.

Keith Jopling: 47:20

Learning something like that, and making an album on your own. Was that a welcomed distraction from all of the trauma that you been going through building up to it?

Beirut: 47:31

Yeah, absolutely. This was a meditation exercise. This, the reason I took them with me is I knew that of all the instruments I was playing at the time, it was the one that sucked me into its world the most. And that's what I was craving. Otherwise, I wouldn't have brought all that ridiculous amount of heavy equipment with me, I would have just, I don't know, brought an accordion or one yoke or something. But no, it's I knew that at that time, since it was newer to me. And it was a kind of long term project of mine, that I would be able to go into those trance like states for long periods of time and get really sucked into it. And that's what I needed. And so it's why I brought it. And do

Keith Jopling: 48:10

you feel like you are okay not to be in those trance like states? What's your state of mind now, before we talk about what's coming up next and in the future for you?

Beirut: 48:20

Yeah, it's interesting. I still struggle with not being occupied. And it's a frustration, my brain doesn't respond to the day to day mundane things very well. It's not a healthy balance. Unfortunately, I think that's why I go to places like Norway for these extreme experiences of like knocking the sense of life back into my mind that has otherwise kind of hardened and closed off to the outside world. That sounds romantic, being like, Oh, I'm a traveler, bla bla bla, it's like, actually, in some ways, it's like a desperate way to like wake myself up. Because if I'm left to my own devices, I am unfortunately, the kind of person that could kind of shrink into the couch and not come out. You know, that's still a problem that it's a I'm a lot better at recognizing its tendencies and recognizing when I get caught in obsessive loops, and kind of paranoid delusions, even stuff like that. So it's more like I'm, I'm, I have so much more awareness than I did before I, before I started this record, for example, but it doesn't solve the problem. It just really helps you manage it a lot better. Presumably,

Keith Jopling: 49:31

people want to put you on a busy schedule, if they can, you know, promoting the record, potentially, as we said, playing it live and then moving on to the next projects. So tell me about what's immediately next for you. And what do you think the future holds for you with within the Beirut project?

Beirut: 49:54

So the next thing that is my big focus is obviously these these concerts come hang up, I want to try and figure out how to do a fair amount of the of this album live with this group that I'm assembling with strings and rhythm section and all that stuff. And when I'm not doing that, I've been working on this project for a Swedish circus company called company jet off. And they approached me and I saw their set design, and I saw some video of their performances. And I just, I was really, really blown away by both the acrobatics and the sets, and the beautiful lighting and all this stuff I just thought I've never seen so tastefully done for such a project. And I got really excited too, because they gave me a theme, and then everything is totally free. So basically, they said, We're basing it off this book, it's called an inventory of losses by Judith Shlonsky. And every chapter is based off of something humanity has lost, whether that be an extinct animal, a beautiful piece of architecture that burnt down, et cetera, et cetera. So some of it is even kind of fantastical, for example. But outside of that, there were no rules, they build the builds the performance around the music, I give them and not vice versa. And that sang to me. And so I'm already nine songs in and trying to deliver it by the spring. So around this project, I'm just working on that. And it's again, like, here I am in my studio. That is perfect. For me, that's all I ever wanted to do. And the great thing is when it's being performed, I'm not really expected to be there. It's more about their performance than it is about me being there and performing live. So that was a good fit. Okay,

Keith Jopling: 51:39

that would obviously come out as essentially the soundtrack to that visual project. But would you put that out as an album in itself as well?

Beirut: 51:47

Absolutely. Because it is an album, I'm not even writing it like a soundtrack. I'm not like, Oh, here's the mood for this song. Here's the mood for it. It's like, no, no, these are self contained songs. So I'm just writing 12 songs that have kind of these intertwining themes a little bit, lyrically. And maybe mood wise, it's in there. But for me, it's like, yeah, I can write an album and have someone performed stuff to it. That's beautiful to me.

Keith Jopling: 52:09

Okay, this sounds good. This in the graphic novel is definitely going to keep you busy. For further Yeah, I'm

Beirut: 52:15

just waiting for the right author. I haven't done any drawings since I was a teenager, unfortunately.

Keith Jopling: 52:21

So. All right. Well, Zach, look, we're coming up with time, it's been a real pleasure to just go on this journey with you. I guess a question for me would be knowing the kind of artist that you are. And you know, it's very much uncompromising, and it doesn't fit into any particular genre box or lane. And it's certainly not something that as you say, you sit outside the way the music business works. But there are a lot of artists just like you who I think look on the business these days as something that's either scary or distasteful, or is not the way they want to do things. They just want to write songs in the styles that they want to write them. And it's can be unusual, or avant garde or whatever, there's plenty of young musicians who don't want to play anyone's game. What would you tell them? I mean, how would you advise them to go about forging a career in some way?

Beirut: 53:15

The most interesting thing has been not. Yeah, when you're creating, you can't think of the audience of the business in any way. And I think that's really obvious. But I find that problematic, and a lot of music and a lot of music I'm hearing these days is there's this, like, there's this fourth wall breaking awareness of the audience and the performer. And I hate that. It's like, it's like a smirk that you don't want to see if they can really just be genuine in the work. It's like, I don't have any good business advice for you, because I'm just kind of stumbling through this as good as anyone else can. But that's not the payoff of this. In the end, the payoff is the work and the art form itself. And the rest of us are just doing the best to make a living out of it. And it's a flawed system, but it's, it works. There are people who make a living, you know, so don't think about that too much. But I wouldn't know how to how to explain that part. But But yeah, just just really lose yourself in the work. Yeah.

Keith Jopling: 54:22

Well, look, it's been fantastic talking to you, I wish you all the best with the Berlin shows. I do hope that leads to something I could see how it's all been played in some amazing venues around the world. So I hope you get to that point.

Beirut: 54:35

That's the idea. You know, maybe once or twice a year, I pop up in some beautiful old room in some nice town somewhere and probably in Europe, because I hate flying and this is where I am right now.

Keith Jopling: 54:46

I think it's possible and I see it happen more often. And hopefully, you know, we can get to a place where you the artists can perform the music more on your terms.

Beirut: 54:58

That would be great. Who knows when I end up appreciating what we get more to somehow, you know? Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 55:04

I think as fans we definitely do. So yeah, I look forward to seeing you sometime in a beautiful venue playing outside and I'll be there on the front row. So it's been great to talk to you. Take care bye bye bye