The Art of Longevity Episode 7: The Coral, with James Skelly

The Coral is a band revered on the music scene - a real artist’s band. They are very accomplished musicians who first got together at school in the small Wirral town of Hoylake. The band members bonded over their many music icons, from The Beatles and the Small Faces to Acker Bilk and Del Shannon. Listening to a record by the Coral is a dizzying fairground tour of Liverpool’s music hall pop heritage mixed with American West Coast psychedelia and a lot else besides. Sometimes all in one song. Yet it sounds like no other band except The Coral. 

Funny then that some 20 years after their debut, The Coral has made an album that sounds more like themselves than anything else they’ve done. ‘Coral Island’ is themed on the romantic ideal of the faded seaside town. The band has had an ongoing obsession with the sea since day one, but Coral Island is different. The band collaborated with artist Edwin Burdis to actually build the island and once it became a physical thing, the band’s imagination was stretched further to bring it to life with stories, characters and poetic interludes narrated by the Skelly brothers’ own Grandad. 

The album is an end-to-end modern classic, yet the band’s singer James Skelly told me he expected the album would linger in obscurity, but it reached number two on the UK album charts and has received critical praise across the board. It’s probably their best record so far and if it’s too early to tell, then let’s say Coral Island is a potential masterpiece. 

It’s nice to see a band as good as The Coral come full circle over the course of two decades.   When the band was elevated to the top of ‘Britpop’ mania in 2002 with their song ‘Dreaming of You’ and their Mercury Prize nominated debut album, they had a great time basking in the limelight and usurping industry etiquette (a Freddie Mercury impersonator stood in for them at the Mercury Prize ceremony). However, The Coral also lost touch with reality. When they released a third album of spooky psychedelic jams, they thought it might get to number one (like their second album ‘Magic and Medicine’). It was perhaps an act of subconscious self-sabotage. A self-correcting mechanism. But at the time it’s just what the band wanted to do, though their judgement was somewhat skewed by skunk. 

In episode 7 of The Art of Longevity, James Skelly walks me through the rest of this remarkable band’s story in a conversation we both thoroughly enjoyed, partly because I was very impressed by the combination of working class ambition, humble wisdom and complete dedication to artistry. There is no doubt when you hear James’s account of the band’s character and history, that The Coral would work their way through the mangle of the music industry and come out of it relatively unscathed. And, creatively speaking, even better. 

In particular though, it’s the songs. Skelly and co do not lack a way with melody. As I put it to him, he could write Coldplay songs all day long, but then there are these things called minor chords...and The Coral never minded a little darkness and spookiness mixed in with the melody. No need for them to call Max Martin in to help write the next few hits (though I suspect Max is a fan). As James says himself, in The Coral’s early days he would kill for a song. Some 20 years in, he’s no longer in need of such morbid thoughts. 

Transcript

Keith Jopling: 0:01

Hello, I'm Keith Jopling from the song some Lea and you're listening to the art of longevity. Brett Anderson from suede once said that successful artists have all followed a similar journey comprising four stages of struggle, a stratospheric rise to the top, the crash down to the bottom. And then the Renaissance will reflect on the learnings wisdom, battle scars and wounds of major artists that have been decades in the music business and ask what really defines success? It's a question many fans and fellow musicians and aspiring musicians want to know the answers to we find out on the art of longevity. James Skelly from the coral. Welcome to the Art longevity. How're you doing on this? Fine British morning, James?

James Skelly, The Coral: 0:52

mate? Yeah, not too bad. Not too bad. Hassan.

Keith Jopling: 0:55

Got a bit of a summer at last. Yeah, yeah.

James Skelly, The Coral: 0:58

Yeah. I mean, it helps those.

Keith Jopling: 0:59

It definitely does, especially since we're going to be knocking around for another month to get back to business. So whereabouts are you?

James Skelly, The Coral: 1:07

I'm just in the front room now. Just messing about with trying to write two songs this morning, but not really getting anywhere. So glad to have a break from it. All right, guys. Yeah.

Keith Jopling: 1:17

Someone wasn't interrupting the music there. Now, all right. All right. Cool. I mean, I've got we're gonna cover basically 20 years in twice as long twice as many minutes. So we're gonna skip over some stuff. But it's great to have you on up. I think I'd like to just start by congratulating you really, because I mean, coral island is going great guns.

James Skelly, The Coral: 1:40

Yeah, I mean, but better than I never expected it to. You know, it's suppose it's relative success. With each brand. You know, I mean, if Chris Ma, and I've added our numbers at you probably jump out of a window. But for me, for us. It's brilliant. It's better than we expected. And yeah, we're really grateful for all the fans who've bought it and connected to record.

Keith Jopling: 2:03

You didn't need Max Martin either. Did you?

James Skelly, The Coral: 2:07

Max mountain now? No, no, no.

Keith Jopling: 2:10

I think he's written written with Coldplay, his latest though. Yeah,

James Skelly, The Coral: 2:14

I think he's written basically the top 40s. And isn't it? Crazy song sounds the same? Pretty

Keith Jopling: 2:19

much, pretty much. He's probably a fan of yours. I would guess. Now. I think it's gone down very, very well. He had a number two records, he kind of back in the charts as well, which I guess as you say you didn't necessarily expect but it's more about the overall reception to the record. I think you've just sort of hit on something. And I'm wondering how it all came together. I know, you know a little bit about the background. You know, you drove past coral island in Blackpool. And you kind of had a wave of nostalgia and things. But tell me about what really got you going with

James Skelly, The Coral: 2:52

with the theme. And it was kind of them grew in a way like until the moment that we signed off on it. It was always growing. And it was always open to adding something the theme got stronger and stronger, you know, to me, and then once it was when Edwin bear Did you Did he did like the artwork and stuff. I started sending him pictures. And when he was asking me about it, as I was telling them, I started to realize what it was if you know what I mean. Yeah. So it was like, and then he built coral island. So it was actually a place then that you could see. That's like Tracy Island, the one on the front probably built in, above it. I think circuit Chinese restaurant and Cardiff he had the whole attic. So we built this massive thing or coral island. Right? Okay. So then we started this was when we were only halfway through two records, then you started to imagine the characters on that. And then it started to grow. And then we'd go back and sort of work on the other songs that we'd already started. So it was living and breathing. It wasn't one of them, where we just had a revelation. It was there everyone, Nick was like we need to do our seaside masterpiece. That was his sort of idea. He was like more call it coral island that came from there. And then I was like, Are you right? You should write. We should do one of them where instead of lyrics we have lining up to this album, you should write them. Welcome to Caroline's and the ghost of coral island. And then he came back with them. And then and then Ian was like, well, we should get granddad to read it. So everyone was throwing in their stuff, if you know what I mean.

Keith Jopling: 4:26

And yeah, I just because he's got that to science, doesn't it? And I think that's gonna resonate with I mean, anybody who sort of lives in a seaside town because they become ghost towns though they offseason? And that's got the kind of awkward it's got a romance to it that you captured it beautifully. It's

James Skelly, The Coral: 4:41

Yeah, well we live it you know, if you can write about something, it's probably helps if you have it in you know, I mean, it's like, it is just because we are that. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 4:50

and you know, it's sort of after 24 years, 25 years actually been together and making music commercially for all this time you it sort of took a while. So land is an idea, didn't it? Because you've touched on it, of course, many, many times. And you've got this sort of preoccupation with with the sea, in a sense, but it's the perfect album for your musical style, isn't it sort of quintessentially English but with a bit of transAtlantic,

James Skelly, The Coral: 5:15

a bit of West Coast? Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 5:18

I've been on West Coast and also look at Coney Island. They all come together. And it sounds fantastic. So Jake, yeah, congratulations, I suppose once you know the the island was built you pretty much had to carry on and make the album and

James Skelly, The Coral: 5:33

that was it. Then we had? Well, we kind of we had to find a way rarely because even like the concept album, it can you know, I'd say Quadrophenia as a concept Amita. We didn't want to be a rock opera. Yeah. Where is that say? Ogden snuck on flake or village green, the kinks or even Sergeant Pepper. They're kind of thematic albums in a way. Like they you can veer off into other places. Because we It originally started as we wanted to make our kind of White Album where it was like everyone was almost doing solo projects within the band as well, if you know what I mean. Okay, so it was went to a lot of ideas too, because we've sort of experienced and open to standard and I think just producing so many buttons, albums and overseeing them, it did help me because a lot of the time I just get like my granddad talking. And then I have to do some with it or like a bit of music that like, and then Paul and I played in the rehearsal room. And then it was like, okay, so we had to put it together sort of organized all the chaos. And then whoever was in came in that day, you do their tune, or they play a bit of guitar. But I was always in mostly it was like me, and Chris, the sort of CO producer would sort of lay down the bones of the tracks

Keith Jopling: 6:51

and getting your granddad to do the narration on it was a stroke of genius, because it's just, he's absolutely brilliant. And the the words are amazing. So who wrote that bit? How come your granddad volunteered? Or was

James Skelly, The Coral: 7:07

Nick wrote away because that was another thing where coral island was, so I know where all our ideas could come together. And it was like we're more than just a band. Ian's artwork and Nick's books and stuff. And so it was like, once we had the idea, the idea was writing lineup. Now that's how it came. And then they were so good. Nick sent me them. And then we edited a few little bits out. But it was so good. That Dan, it was the enzyme where we were saying to get we wanted someone to read it. We were like Kelly and McAfee are John same someone like that, you know, good. That we like and then it was like, the reality was by the time you go to you speak to them you organize the studio do you have to pay him was just like I'm gonna record granddad in the rehearsal room because he recorded him for his band seven power that him and Paul Malloy up. So he's on their record before. And that sounded great. So I was like, Alright, and then once we got it, I got it in both studio and it was like I put it on the space second tape. So it was all warping and no delay, and no to make it sound like a dream in a way.

Keith Jopling: 8:18

I could listen to it all day long. But it is short clips just makes it even more powerful. But it's yeah, it's very sort of it's kind of intoxicating. It definitely draws you into the album. So it's it's a it's highly effective. And Killian and John seem to do a fine job, I'm sure but your granddad's better. Yeah, I

James Skelly, The Coral: 8:41

think we'd always liked that sort of. We had like this Rob McEwen CD we used to listen to and Jack Kerouac and Bill Dylan Thomas, you know that Jack Kerouac on had like bits of music behind it. That's what we were kind of inspired by almost lounge, jazz piano on the piano. I think it was called October in a railroad. That was a favorite one we always used to listen to when we were touring in America. Right. So that kind of inspired it a bit. A lot of stuff we listen to or be like, might listen to, like, TS Eliot read in the wasteland or whatever. Yeah, just as much as we listen to music. So we wanted to get all that in there. Well, in doing all

Keith Jopling: 9:17

this, you've you've made something of a masterpiece. So I'm kind of interested in. I mean, you've done alright, because you you got to number two and all of that. And, you know, these days, it's very different to when you released coral in 2002. Right? So there's, there's new music coming out as left, right and center and things evaporate within a space of a few weeks. How do you when you've made something with the thought process and the creativity of the art that's gone into that? What's your plan to sustain that and just get that out to the audience that deserves to hear it? Do you get involved with that side of things? I'm not worried about it. Now

James Skelly, The Coral: 9:55

we do. I mean, we feel like we've kind of reconnect did with our fans in a way I feel like one of the mistakes we made was to not really understand the connection with the fans, or maybe value it enough even take it for granted, if you know what I mean. But when we come out wasn't really like you couldn't connect with them without a middleman. And I think we found the middleman. And we just didn't trust it. So we sort of lost the connection with the fans in a way. And I think because we've kind of got that back. I think we can get we've just this time now. Now, it's definitely flawed the way people are paid for streaming, and all that stuff. But on a creative level, that you know, this time is suits us better. I think we were too quick. And we were too lenient. For the time we came out. It was a big tanker that, you know, to turn anything around it get 10 in the tank around, you know, yeah, it was like a big bloated industry that it wasn't, I think we would just, we would would shoot it this time, which if we could then just add, like our little videos we made. I don't know, YouTube, and that was all going then. But it wasn't like it is now. Like now, the way we are creative would have been perfect for us. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 11:19

yeah, I can see that. I think in a way you're kind of, I mean, I know look as only something to do with it. But you're lucky to be creating at the level you are as a band now, because I mean, there was this great quote, actually, I don't know whether you or Nikolas said it to Michael Hand, but it was about people are tricked into believing the mainstream is everything. Do you remember that conversation? Yeah, you know, and you were, of course, when you know, when the coral was a success. And you know, when you were first a success in the public eye, you were thrust into that mainstream, which is probably not the place for you. But now, as you, as you say, you can do all kinds of things to tap into your audience without having to play that mainstream game.

James Skelly, The Coral: 12:04

Yeah, I think we didn't, it felt too. We were too creative in a way for and we didn't like we didn't want to be put in a box. But I'd say, even in general life, I find if everything you do is just a reaction to something, you're gonna make a lot of mistakes. Because it's not thought it through you just reactive, not proactive, journeyman. And I think that's what we did. Early on, we just react and, and in a way, it's good Chris Young, do you know what I mean? So you AM, whatever fuels your fire suppose. But now, we want to show up with we've got everything. We want to realize what we've got with our fans. And we want to you know, we want to keep that and we want to reward them in a way.

Keith Jopling: 12:50

Yeah. What's How do you keep in touch with your fans through all this now then I'm particularly thinking about the last 18 months when you haven't had a chance to connect with them live in the way that you normally would? How do you correlate? We

James Skelly, The Coral: 13:06

just thought, Okay, if all we've got social media, so we put out two albums in lockdown, we've got, you know, the fans can't go to gigs. So we'll give him a gig. You know, we put out the live at Skeleton Coast. And then we did tunes nearly every night. They were all locked down tunes. I was just filming them, we put that out some old videos connected with it. The I think doing the listening parties really reconnected us. And we've been building it for five years, you know, to get to the chart position we did is based on our fans really? Yeah. You know, that was one of the missions we had, we had a kind of five year mission to reconnect with the fan base over the next five years, really, that that was what we have. And we came up with distance in between. If we get that chance, we weren't gonna mess it up again, if you know what I mean, we cherish it.

Keith Jopling: 13:57

Yeah. Because you've, you know, you've been there a few times. And as you say, you kind of reacting to things you did mess it up, we're going to cover some of that ground. Actually, if you don't mind just thinking though, that I mean, you must have discussed this as an idea. But taking that taking coral island around, you know, the British coast, I'd

James Skelly, The Coral: 14:14

love to do a full production. But the reality is what that would be the amount of rehearsal the amount of crew and stuff to do it properly. You'd have to do where you wouldn't make any money and be proud of and dumping in nor that wouldn't be enough people. Like you could do it amazing over like four gigs. But you'd have to be asked for about two months, you know, so, yeah. So it's like, you know, I wish we could, but in reality, I don't know, maybe, maybe if it grows over the next year or so to where there would be enough of an audience for it. You never know.

Keith Jopling: 14:57

Yeah, it'd be great. Yeah, let's never say let's try and make it happen. and

James Skelly, The Coral: 15:00

it really works on acoustic. When we play the songs on acoustic it worked brilliant. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 15:06

yeah, I mean, cuz I mean through all of it, you know, as we discussed the the art and everything else is the songs right. I mean those songs just come come to the fore. Well, let me let me take you back because you mentioned it right to the early days. Because you were formed us as a bunch of school kids really weren't your teenagers back in 96.

James Skelly, The Coral: 15:29

Yeah.

Keith Jopling: 15:31

And it took you a little while to get going, what were your intentions when you started out? Because it was six years before you got signed and released the record and all of that. So talk me through the early days.

James Skelly, The Coral: 15:41

Well, it first started with Paul was always musical Duffy in was Matt. So obviously they ended up that was the basis of the band. And Ian got a drum kit off me that got in like a drunk enough because we lived in a pub. So we had like a big seller, and one of the lads who come in the pub, he must have been scammed somebody that bought a drum kit off and give it to him. So it was like Ian's fair strong kick was this unbelievable, like John Bonham kit wasn't like a little rubbish yet. It was amazing. But the fellow who's just like, basically given me dad for buttons. So we've got the seller with this kit that is good enough to play network with or whatever. And then Paul Duffy, she's got a little Spanish guitar. And he loves to play like, but they were like 14, but they agree hair. So the whole of a quick one by the hip. I can rock up the whole thing. And then you know, I've come down and like we do Wonderwall. And I was probably completely off key, no pretending the symbol was a microphone. And that and it was kind of just messing about and then I start Paul's showed me a big guitar. I got a few guitar lessons. We started about something going to own a man. We were into like the verb and I was just and stuff like that. And Bill, Bill joined he was really into Nick McCabe. And then Lee joined. They put they were in like in their school, they were quite encouraged by the music teacher and we were allowed to rehearse in the music room. So I'd come in, and then we started playing gigs in like bars, like proper rough bars. And that we gathered ghettos in Liverpool, we were playing sort of these long, vague Funkadelic jams. And then I don't know something once we're in Liverpool, something hit and we had like the last and the bony man, and Shaq and like the early Beatles stuff. And you'd see buskers everywhere and it was just like Bhaskar thing, it was just in the air. So we completely started changed our thing. And I'll pass it up about 70. And then from there, it became a different thing. And we started to get into like beaphar and love. And we met like Trump attack and the bandits and the other bands in town. It was like a little scene. Yeah. And it was a lot of it was like the Everly Brothers pre Beatles stuff. Eddie Cochran, that kind of stuff. boundedly. And we really got into that. After that I moved back, I moved into minivans to back to where I originally, you know, from a seaside town, because I lived in all these other places in pubs by that sort of Nick had a little band and reconnected with Nick's we were mates when we were kids, and he had another band. And so we started writing together, we started to come up with this, we'd like, you know, we take acid together and stuff. And we started to grow into this thing. And we were like, right, we're gonna take a year out, and we're gonna get something that no one's got, if you know what I mean. So you sort of were listening site, we had to live and we had the Liverpool thing down, we kind of had that. But we weren't really from Liverpool, we're from over the water. So we sort of, we always had a thing with your kids. And we remember standing on me and Nick was standing on the beach, and we were like, looking at Wales. And it was like, we're gonna take like the Gorky used to super fairies, kind of psychedelic wackiness in a way, and combine that with like, the harmonies and the attitude of Liverpool. Like Shaq and a Barney men and stuff. Yeah. And then it kind of made sense to us.

Keith Jopling: 19:11

Yeah, yeah. So you kind of did for me, it's just listening to you explain that. It's sort of no wonder really, that you've arrived, sounding fully formed, you know, because, I mean, obviously, you've got the you've got the gift of melody, but then you've got that psychedelia that keeps coming in. to wonder where that came from. So what is it about the element to music because you've got the melody to write I mean, you mentioned Chris Martin, you could write Coldplay songs for a living if you wanted to, but then the minor chords just that's where you go.

James Skelly, The Coral: 19:43

Yeah, I studied songwriting, rarely studied at me and never studied it like every day, every night. I was to the point of like, I would have killed someone for a song I'm not like that. Not a word of you know far. You've got to go ruthless. You Gotta be I was that, you know, I would fall out with people I would do anything to get to our good I wanted to be. And then at some point I realized I'd rather be a better person if you know what I mean. Yeah, maybe I had to do that. To land. What a land. You know what I mean? to you to say once you've honed it, but yeah, me and next 30 days and Alan wills you have delta Sonic he helped those you with. We have each car that songs to happy days. You need to be darker, you know, push you. And then I remember we went on this shadows for Mr. Oneway like in a neck. And they have this idea for like, Dang Dang it, you know, the couple of cards. And then I came together with neck and we wrote the words in the shelter on the beach. And we were sort of obsessed with something between Sherlock Holmes and smile by the Beach Boys the method but then it didn't exist. Smile. Right. So we love dogs, and they parks his lyrics. We were obsessed with it. But we still we would imagine what smile was if you know what I mean. So sick the whole leaf the deck or like just like from Surf's up kind of thing. But we were into a lot of like Gothic like Sherlock Holmes or Edgar Allan Poe. Do you know what I mean? It was like that period of time with that was everything we were into, in a way. And then Bill added this slight, little jazz section of what he was into. Duffy added the top baseline, Ian was doing this sneaky drums. Lee add his lead. And that was the ultimate choral tune in a way that was the tune where we showed that to Alan, he was like, you've done it. He was like you found your sound if you know what I mean. Yeah. And then from there, then I remember we went, we did a sort of, we just went on like a kind of acid mission thing it was me is all of us. But apart from Bill, and we, and it's sort of lasted them, you know, on enough for like a month or so. And we came out of it with all the songs or the first album really. So it sort of just this new world that opened up to us. And it's almost, and so it was like it all built up to that. And most of the songs in the fast were written in that period.

Keith Jopling: 22:17

Yeah, it's just hearing you say that it's there's so many references baked in. But you wanted to make something new from all that, didn't you? There's a there's definitely a sort of burning ambition there. I can hear it in your voice. I mean, creative first and foremost. But then what were you thinking in terms of finding an audience with that? With that sound? What was it that you signed to Delta Sonic? And I think Alan, Alan kind of formed Delta Sonic around the coral. Design you as you say there was a buzz. At that time, it was zutano studded 60s were around there was a scene around you. You kind of really took that scene on it was you were at the center of it from 2002 onwards. Well,

James Skelly, The Coral: 23:02

we can't Yeah, it was brilliant. I look back now. And like Dave, that was your time to come to mind. And everyone had four tracks or eight tracks and Jay, Jay redbows. And Trump attack. He's still one of my best mates. He had an eight track tape machine. No, like a little cassette? Well, I've still, that's still the sound that I'm trying to capture on their coral island, I'm still obsessed with it. Maybe it's something in memory of being younger and free, if you know what I eat of that. And he just could get this magical sound on it. In a way, it was just so creative. But because you could only get it on a tracks. It would be like an imagination of something, if you know what I mean. And I always had trouble never realizing the imagination of it in the studio. But yeah, we started that. And then Brody came in. He made to see a bigger world in a way. And we were ambitious, you know, we wanted to, we didn't want to be like anyone else. You know, we purposefully just a tune in the middle of would go off on a tangent to see it couldn't pigeonhole us. And our thing was, we had so many styles, that was our style, if you know what I mean, but it was always the car.

Keith Jopling: 24:14

And that time so you really took off was the thing maybe in a way you didn't even expect with with the kind of music that you're making. Although Yeah, I mean, you know, you had the songs there for sure. But also at that time, it was guitar bands would just be would be much hyped and and you will kind of one of those, quite rightly for the music but you were still sort of thrust into the limelight and the charts and the Mercury Music Prize nomination, everything it didn't even turn up for that. So just interested in how you then reacted to the flame. Really?

James Skelly, The Coral: 24:51

Yeah, it was a you'd like it Jonalyn because the shot of you if you're a kid who's grown up in pubs and the atmosphere is Inside lads shimmy estates are in the pub. And it's like, you've got a bit of thing like a told yourself to not wonder man. Yeah, I can hold your way to matter if I didn't get any exams over. So you've got like a Nord and there was still that 90s thing was in those a bit, no demand. Why now kids don't have that as much now. So there was a bit of that to contend with. Also, you're young and you're so afraid of being pigeonholed. Now before you, you know, you're not yet to start second guessing. So you're trying to protect everything you don't want to be you want the limelight you want everyone to like, Yeah, but on your own terms. And that's not how it works. If you're not prepared to give anything, not everyone will give up on you. You know what I mean? So it's, yeah, it was a lesson. But I don't really regret any of it. Because it was a good lesson. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 25:53

I mean, you went on to I mean, I don't think you compromised in any way because magic medicine just didn't feel like a compromise. It was no extension of where you were going. But then it's what happened after that, I think is quite interesting.

James Skelly, The Coral: 26:07

I think magic and Leadsom was one of them. It was a reaction to just paying those festivals and you're there like, member every festival seems to be on with Interpol. And you just hear that being bass drum. And it was just a horrible, you know, everything that was just like, Ah, I can't take this music anymore. I remember being and we were touring America. And we wrote most of it on the tour bus in America. So it's got that feel to it. So we couldn't do it as a band, because we were always promoting already. So a lot of it was just written on acoustics that travel in America, if you know what I mean, or traveling, because we just lived on a bus. So that's why it's got that feel, I suppose. And we had this thing of like, we always wanted to be like loved away lover in the psych scene. And then we just went did almost Johnny Mathis psychedelic version of Johnny Mathis, which separated them from everyone else. Like really, if you were advising you probably say, look, make your first album again, then do that to the main bot. And God we never bought that would have been the same length.

Keith Jopling: 27:13

But at the time touring America was the idea to break America or was it just to sort of Blaby

James Skelly, The Coral: 27:19

from above

Keith Jopling: 27:20

is a bit more.

James Skelly, The Coral: 27:21

We maybe from both, we were just like, we're gonna go to all the little towns, we're gonna go to the diners. We're going to do all the stuff that we've seen in the films that we cared about. We wouldn't have done that work that it takes to go to America. No way.

Keith Jopling: 27:34

You just wanted to live the dream for a bit. Now. We

James Skelly, The Coral: 27:36

were just all we've done is wherever we go to be. Right. Get us some weed. That was it. Get weed, smoke loads with Reeboks, take it all in? Yeah, that was it. We were like, we just want to soak everything up. But you know, you have to do the other work too. And you can't just go and just be like, where they were next year. Yeah. You know, you have to be like, go this like Bob Dylan to do that. We went that

Keith Jopling: 28:05

probably commit to it. And there was something about not wanting to do that, I guess because we if you think what came next was night frequence sons of Becker. And that was a self correction exercise or a bit of the old self sabotage wasn't it? Or was ya

James Skelly, The Coral: 28:23

know that I think I thought it was gonna blow everyone's minds and it'd be number one we would you have to remember we were like, deluded, like, so far away from what is actually happening in reality. Right. So you thought it was gonna be a hit? Kind of Yeah. But utterly diluted, you know, if it was like I was, in fact, if it was now, it would just be like, this tune. We've done this album. It's a limited edition vinyl, it's going on streaming comes out just for the fans. You know, black keys new album, isn't they haven't presented that as like, this is our new album. It's their blues tunes. They're like they've done a limit. Limited vinyl went on to streaming. They know what it is. And then they'll do an album with the tunes for the radio. They know the game dude. Oh, man, this, this was out suicide, the early spouse. Everyone's loving pass it on. You just got to number one. You're going to confuse everyone. But there is a side of our fans that loved it. And you could have still got it to that. But at the time, it wasn't like it is now. Do the way everyone can just you'll be like, Oh, Mack DeMarco is put up the demos of his album. And if you're a fan, you love it. But it doesn't affect what his real album will do next, you put an album out the next month and it won't affect it wasn't like that. That's so I think there was a bit of we were kind of ahead of our time in that way of like the way people are now. Yeah. And it just didn't work that and there was an element of self sabotage probably. But and yeah, we were I can't explain how far away we were from like, no one read the paper. No one knew what was going on. When in London, no one knew what was going on in politics. We didn't have a clue. It was just smoke weed. That was it. It was almost a cult. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 30:11

yeah. Yeah, you'd become a bit of a cult for yourselves. And

James Skelly, The Coral: 30:16

yeah, it's like the Lost Boys or you're out here on rules. Family, there was rules. And it was like, don't break. thinking, I don't even know what they're about the

Keith Jopling: 30:27

guiding hand of Alan Wilson, because he was your manager, I think that's kind of a label

James Skelly, The Coral: 30:31

off the labels, so he couldn't really manage us it was a bit of a conflict of interests. So we didn't have a manager.

Keith Jopling: 30:39

So no one had a word in your ear. And so they look poor. Yeah,

James Skelly, The Coral: 30:42

we wouldn't have listened. Alan can know Alan was again on like, free tea. Like that, you know, he was he loved the creative, he loved them outside of us. But he wasn't experienced if at all. And it was the same as us. It was a Alan thought we'll put this out it'll be like the three P's of b2b and 30,000 will grow them they'll grow into like a band you know, maybe one day you know they can become I think he added on this I have like and then they'll be coming on mainstream bands but he didn't know to know in a minute. And that thing of like when you just do what you want and keep your working for you. You do get an element of like hubris and arrogance which can which makes you got you know what I mean? Like

Keith Jopling: 31:30

your momentum Do you still charted and everything, so

James Skelly, The Coral: 31:35

no one can accuse those events of not being, you know, off being family or anything, because we just did what we wanted, you really put yourself out.

Keith Jopling: 32:06

It's really interesting when I prepare for these conversations, because I kind of listen back to all of the back catalogue and then read the reviews and stuff and the reviews kind of converged around butterfly house, which I know was a couple of albums later. But that was seen as a you come in together with a new kind of fully formed sound. But what what do you make of that sort of time between night freaks and butterfly house? What was your progression as a band these things from

James Skelly, The Coral: 32:38

well, we do in distance in between. And Bill, Bill had a breakdown. Rarely, there's no other way to put it. You know, he'd been through a lot. He's sensitive. He had a lot to deal with, and dealt with, you know, which is not for me to speak about that. That's his thing. And you young you don't really know how to handle if you try and help you know, the main book, you have no idea. So then bills kind of on a break, then you think it will help so you're finishing the album without bill, Jeff and aid. Jeff got his own issues. You're on the moon. It's just not like, you know, he's not gonna handle that. Jeff's a particular Jephson artist, he's not a doctor or you know, he's not even hasn't even got the you know, this. You're not a people person that way. He's a genius artist. So he's eight is an amazing musician. You know, maybe if it had happened with Brody could have brought the new build, you know, the man took for them to be doing this thing with this band. Everyone's in Wales in a house. It was insane. To me. And didn't you? Yeah, yeah. And it's completely, you know, some of our best works on that album, I think in that the tension and the darkness of it. But it's, you know, so it was kind of it was difficult, but you're in a haze, again, you know, you just everyone's smoking so much skunk that's killing it, you know? And then it gets and then you think this is anything below combat and you don't know and then it goes longer and longer. Yeah, and what you're in Purgatory. You know, and you don't want to give up on bail and bail. Just want to give up on the band. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 34:23

so just like lose it. I mean, I guess you know, there have been many, many stories of bands losing.

James Skelly, The Coral: 34:29

Now it's not even like say Ben Butler leads suede banner bought the lead suede. They became mates in art school or whatever. This is like you that Yeah. If Elijah met Bill when he was like, 10 or so. So it's like, you know your brothers. So then we start you know, you're just in darkness then really? I to me, darkness is where I am or I can face darkness. If it's my responsibility and and if It's on me to get out of it. When it's like you, you thought you can't do anything. She can't make you helpless. And yeah, yeah,

Keith Jopling: 35:07

I mean, it's surprising that you drifted into hiatus after that, didn't you? Because it was, it was a great album. I think as you say, it's got that touch of darkness was on there, but you had John Leckie producing it, it's sort of seemed like you could go anywhere from from that album, but you you just drifted into into a breakup period? How did that? Why did that before

James Skelly, The Coral: 35:32

that if we don't after an invisible invasion, so we go in, we start doing the sort of in the wilderness versus bill come back, isn't he coming back. And we end up in our rehearsal room. And we go back to the sort of eight track thing, and the source of darkness, and that starts affecting everything really in your life. So we start writing in, we start, we just did cursive love, we made that in a rehearsal room, as like a piece of art, then build, came back a bit and played on it. And it came this big point where I think it was like me and and Lee wanted, wanted to put it out. And it was like, okay, you know, I wanted to be like that extreme and podcast a lot about it was like, now, you know that they're not gonna let you do you know, who may. So then it was a big thing. And we shelved it. And in a way, it took me a long time to get over that. And we went and made roots and echoes. And build came back to the band. And it was kind of a more straight up song thing. Which is the first time we've kind of done that, and probably the most normal album we've done in a way. And that went alright, but you just was never right. On the main with, you could tell build. And then once Bill left made it final, then we could kind of get all get on the same page again, which is when we made butterfly house, which is kind of a precursor to coral land in a way it's a bit of a got a bit of a concept. It's a about the old world that I in, in a way sort of it's meant to be in this new world, this new digital world sort of taken over. That was kind of the idea of the butterfly outs was like the old world. Yeah, and John Lackey came in and he was he was really good for us. It boosted Lee's confidence with the guitar, but I don't know live live, I found it. It was a difficult time for us after that. And I just thought we've hit a brick wall here. We're exhausted.

Keith Jopling: 37:32

Right? Which was would have been telling for you as a live band, because you just kept on honing your craft and we're a very well respected, you're awesome live band. I mean, roots and echoes was was was great live. Yeah, kind of normal. The way you just bang that out was just sounded fantastic. So at that point, you you kind of sensed that something was up?

James Skelly, The Coral: 37:55

Well, yeah, we're playing live. And I don't know, it was, it was difficult because it was more acoustic the last bill and I wasn't as good on the guitar and started practicing in that hiatus. So it was kind of very chunky. And a lot of the acute insert venues It was amazing. But then in say academies, the acoustics would be buzzing. And I don't know, we just haven't, we just were losing money left, right and center. Because you have that thing if you can't let it go, you turn on the tour bus. You can't go backwards to how you were doing it. So we were just shedding money to an older man. And I just started to look at it and as tall as me and Nick's belting out we've hit a brick wall here and we're like let's just get all the money out of it. Let's split what we got now. And let's see where we are. And we just knew we had to stop when in our tracks with John Lackey actually do the great sound that probably just weren't it was an idea that became distance in between but we hadn't realized it

Keith Jopling: 38:56

right it's amazing that as an established band, I mean I know this there's five of you in the band so that economically after sort of watch the you know watch the money side of it but the you were running out of money at that point was

James Skelly, The Coral: 39:10

how we were just hammered you never really weird you lifestyle isn't it you've gone from and it's not yet you think God's not our money but it is it is spending it and like you'd go on tour to your what really we should have been set, you know, sharing hotel rooms if you wanted to do it, but we're still doing it like when we were number one to know what I mean. Well

Keith Jopling: 39:31

when you came back so with when you came back fully so with the distance in between, which, by the way, I love that record, I think it's because you get your groove on as well. Somehow that record is sort of you know, Ian and Paul just those rhythms. It brings something different I think to all the all of your other records, but again, it's not an obvious come back home, is it? No,

James Skelly, The Coral: 39:57

we were like right Let's say we wanted that album to be zapped the carnal. You know, it wasn't like, whereas Akshay Coraline does, like, ah, that's the chorus. We wanted that one to be like, didn't know, they were like that, almost a surprise. But that was like, we're really, really going to base it on rhythm we always love, like kraut rock, and all that type of stuff. And Hawk Wind and stuff really got into like that drive and drone sorts of things. And we it's like anything, we just wanted to do a coral version of that. And also at the time, Malloy joins. So there was only four of us. We are like what walks us take anything I do in production, it's like, okay, the weaknesses, we haven't got guitarist, what's our strength, the rhythm section, you know, and we've always got these jams. So if we want to do an album that represents that, we don't, you know, we've done the whole thing we were playing lots of layoffs and acoustic just want we're like many to turn up and Academy with our guitars. And it's just rockin Chinotto man. So we sort of, we knew what that was before and what we were going to do. But we had to kinda learn how to, I had to kind of learn to write songs, or took an electric guitar back to the house with a little tiny amp, and a loop pedal. And I took about three years to learn how to do it, and then wants to learn how to write with riffs. Because I've never done it before, like Bill or LEA, do the rich, then just start flying out chasing the tail connector, all that stuff. And it was a time where we were all we were all on the same page. You know, everyone was taking MDMA together without like, stay up all night. Leaving it? You know, it was like the last some of the lads. It was like the last of their 20s. And yeah, it was like, we're going to we're going to have this because after this, we'll be having kids and stuff. So we're gonna have a laugh.

Keith Jopling: 41:52

There's a sense of urgency to it for sure. Yeah. Yeah, you've got to, it's the album sort of says to you as a listener. Yeah, stop what you're doing. And just, you know, listen to this, it's kind of, it's gotten harder.

James Skelly, The Coral: 42:08

Every time I hear it, I feel like I'm coming up on MDMA. It's like, it's just that sound of that. How did you agree at

Keith Jopling: 42:16

that point, to make something that was a little bit different, more rhythm based, and it all just feel like, okay, we want to make a different statement coming back. And

James Skelly, The Coral: 42:27

yeah, we did, we did that one was like, we knew what we wanted to make. And we wanted it to cover to be white wanted it to be minimal, you know, does the sound was like you plug the guitar straight, and we were inside, we were well into sort of, into Hawk Wind and can and like driving drone rhythms really. And then we add these lyrics were more just sort of poetic and, and stream of consciousness. They're not really like, enacted to that song like autumn is calm or secret kiss on it or whatever. They're like quite this, we wanted to have, like multiple meanings in one song.

Keith Jopling: 43:06

And by that time, you it was that you getting back in touch? How did that go down with the fan base, because again, it sort of something a lot of

James Skelly, The Coral: 43:16

that's when we started to get and it was almost like that was like, right, we're called bound at least. And we got the the people who were in now It's hardcore, but actually did really well it got some of the best reviews set us off again, and Malloy join in gave us a real sense of purpose, he was the perfect member really to join, because he was in seventh power within them. So let's get him on a few tunes and came down to play on white bed. And it was just this rhythm track. And I'd always saw no stuff I did poor play on was more like Soul or mud stuff, or times Utahns slide. So it was like I was just gonna play like that stuff. And then he just tunes down his guitar and starts doing all this Black Sabbath drone stuff. And I was like, All right, yeah. Just like he's got, you know what I mean, is I was like, I thought, I didn't know he was much of an artist. Yeah. And then, yeah, it was just like, he was just a perfect member for the band. Really. We went from strength to strength, in a way live and live. He did some of the best character ever don't.

Keith Jopling: 44:18

Yeah, I did. I didn't see you play that too. And that's a big regret.

James Skelly, The Coral: 44:22

And we had all we got this guy who did all the psychic projections at psych fest, he came. So it was like a collaboration of all the psychedelic projections on us and these sorts of drone songs, and we start with like five new songs. So we added real energy. And we were just, we were a gang again.

Keith Jopling: 44:41

Yeah, funnily enough, you've always been a little bit prescient as well because I think that was the sort of start of a lot of young bands just picking up the guitars again, and kind of coming back with psych rock, as you know,

James Skelly, The Coral: 44:56

there was a lot of that stuff going black angels Moon I think we were moved you out to some good stuff around them where it was like, quite just raw psych like their thing for elevators. Good little time. And

Keith Jopling: 45:09

then you know, you going on from there, you've obviously, had you decided at that point. Look, we're back. And you know, you mentioned earlier you, you've kind of started having this five year strategy to get in touch with your audience, you know, no longer Yeah. Or the chasing the mainstream?

James Skelly, The Coral: 45:28

No, it's like, let's get our audience. Let's get our fans back. Let's reward them. Let's kill it. Well, let's connect with them. Maybe we add them, but we haven't connected with them ever really? Like, let's connect with them. And let's see where that can take us.

Keith Jopling: 45:44

Yeah, and it felt like distance in between you got something out of your system? Yeah. You were back to you've kind of landed in a ditch, hesitate to say contented but an area in which you know, it's having veered as a band towards the psychedelic, and then back towards the kind of melodic but the folk rock the 60s influence stuff you, you now kind of mash it up nicely in between. And that sort of went from the move through the door to Coraline. And so you can't feel like we're listening to a very contented band at the moment. Is that where you are?

James Skelly, The Coral: 46:23

Yeah, it was pretty. I mean, it wasn't difficult. It was hard work as in like, you know, it was it was a lot of thought and doing it. But it wasn't, there was no friction in making coral island. It was just, it was quite easy. It was really for the end of it, you know, when you're putting it together and yeah, trying to make some of the stuff fit that we'd written before it stuff like that. And then you're able to think everyone every arm, but it wasn't that hard. It was and the releasing of it. This is the most I've ever enjoyed an album.

Keith Jopling: 46:56

Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it? Because you've got to keep interested in in that side of it. I guess once you've kind of You've given birth to something, you want to get it out there in the best possible way and have people appreciate it. So it's good to have the energy about it. I think after 25 years, especially. Yeah,

James Skelly, The Coral: 47:15

I think because we put the album back and we had some distance from it. And I just started to get on their radar, this will be our first album that isn't a top 20 We can't do any gigs.

Keith Jopling: 47:27

Again, that's fascinating. So you just kind of let it go from that from the commercial perspective. You didn't have any hangups. Just like Nerdist. And then we love it.

James Skelly, The Coral: 47:36

We love it. It's it. You know, when you look at Stephanie on your 10,000 you think it's more about what happened? We don't we haven't done a double album? To think, you know, you can probably guess some things maybe our next album be by what we haven't done. Can you kinda like you're looking at it as your legacy by this point of like, you want everything in there. You even want to shift album in there. When you look

Keith Jopling: 48:03

well. You mentioned early you had a kind of White album concept up your sleeve as well. I mean, what made what's what's without, you know, you don't have to reveal any any secrets here. But what's next? And what is keeping you really excited about what we've

James Skelly, The Coral: 48:17

got with kind of in locked out we've kind of got two albums on the go. The basis of where in the past we maybe would have tried to make one album, I think we're going to split them where condoms and use them for different things. Because now I'm kinda like, one of it doesn't have to be maybe one of them can take a bit longer and be like a proper column. One of them could be something just for the fans. And, you know, yeah, yeah.

Keith Jopling: 48:43

Yeah, you can play around with with natural release music these days, I think because

James Skelly, The Coral: 48:50

no rules anymore.

Keith Jopling: 48:52

No. There's no rules. But again, you're one of the bands that can make that album as a piece of art. And it's very exciting that that's still still relevant, especially with something as artful as coral islands. So I kind of really look forward to what you do next as an album. But yeah, the bits in between and the side projects, you can make more of that, I think. So you don't have to feel like you, you know, in official releases is a way to experiment and veer off in one of your many directions. You can just do it all at the same time, Kenny?

James Skelly, The Coral: 49:24

Yeah, I also feel like coral islands, like a world that we can revisit anytime, you know, in the way Lee Perry would have like to be super eight returned to the Super Eight. You know, I feel like we can revisit it. Maybe not in a way. But you know, in a limited edition way or a vinyl way. Joining me I feel like there'll be times when we revisit it. Yeah, in different ways. I think it's a well now that that exists like Twin Peaks.

Keith Jopling: 49:51

Yeah. And you know, it's sort of it comes and goes right. So you know, it's like the ghost of coral island and then you know, somehow it becomes vibrant again, people come back to the seaside and and it's, you know, it's the place to be and then and then they vacate again. And I think that's maybe one way of a metaphor. Yeah, going back to the concept.

James Skelly, The Coral: 50:11

But yeah, we've got all different ideas and spin offs and in our show Yeah, we could do a soundtrack where it's like a king kong version of it of the prehistoric version of a coral island. You could do like I don't think you could do loads of stuff.

Keith Jopling: 50:30

Well, meanwhile I'm gonna have a I'm gonna have a brainstorm and see how we can get this this UK tour of a faded seaside towns long ago. But meanwhile, James has been a real pleasure to talk to you thanks for coming on the show and and just been really game in terms of going back and you know, some people look back and and they don't want to talk about it, but I think it's, it seems to have come full circle for for you as a person and as a band as well. So congratulations on that. I look forward to hearing more from you.

James Skelly, The Coral: 51:02

Okay, next from James. Sarah.