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The Talent Tank
The Talent Tank
EP 25 Tom Wayes
A play on the triumph and losses in performance and life. The Talent Tank podcast will navigate the inner workings of lifestyle, lives, family, teams, careers, programs, and technology in and around the offroad motorsports industry. What breeds success with your Talent Tank on full, failures when its on empty. From the journey to the Starting Line to take that Green Flag, on to exploring trials and tribulations on and off the track in pursuit of victorious achievement and the Checkered Flag.
He's about the closest thing ULTRA4 Racing has to Captain America. On this Episode hailing from Olympic Valley, Tahoe, Reno, Haines, Alaska by way of Pennsylvania we take a dive into the psyche of the man behind the mustache, Tom Wayes @twayes, driver of the #321 4400 car, macho man of the ski's, and slinger of the chainsaw from the tallest trees in the Sierra Nevada's. When you don't find him jumping out of helicopters, or playing Paul Bunyon, you can find him exploring the backcountry on bike, sled, or his trusty Raptor. We get a look at what has made the Wayes name always apart of the podium conversations surrounding 4400. How he's been successful, how he's dealt with shortcomings, wrecks, injuries, getting older, and keeping the eye on the prize to live out "I wanna be 60 years old, Crusty, Salty, doing this exact thing." With a sweet/easy recipe for a Baja Fog thrown in for good measure.
After the Checkered Flag-
SEABA has access to terrain from Petersburg, Alaska to Haines, Alaska. With a heli skiing area over 250 nautical miles from the southern reaches of Southeast Alaska all the way to the British Columbia / Yukon border. They have three distinct staging areas Haines, Juneau and Petersburg. Each port has distinct weather influences and terrain options, allowing clients the best opportunity to crush powder. With such a vast area to operate they can move operations to areas with the most favorable Heli Ski conditions.
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Let's drop the green flag on this episode of the talent tank podcast with your host Wyatt Pemberton bringing you the best, fastest, most knowledgeable personalities and ultra before and off road racing.
Wyatt Pemberton :This episode of the talent tank brought to you by three amazing partners, custom splice offered recovery equipment, brand new motor sports, custom machine, and magnitude performance a mass motor sports company. Enjoy. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Yes. The talent tank in session. As you clicked on today's episode, you see, we have none other than Mr. Tom ways, Tom, how are you? Super fired up to be here Why? And I just want to clarify for everyone listening in just because you can't see the video of this and this guy looking back at me. This is just Tom. This is no must
Tom Wayes :This is just Tom
Wyatt Pemberton :How you doing man? I'm doing good. Thank you so much for agreeing to come on you know I've known you for greater than 10 years greater than a decade always a good guy to talk to always a good guy to wheel with always a great guy to wheel with race with all the above have beers with all around good guy. Name is always in the podium discussion. How do you do it?
Tom Wayes :Where do you want to start? Now Now we have a lot of time to get into that. Right off the bat though. Last week. Well the episode just before this, we had a famous fellow you know the witness co driver and ultra for history. fella goes by the name of Mr. Jason Berger, or CrossFit Sally. He alluded to a story about the famous Tom ways. He he dropped a nice little easter egg for us.
Wyatt Pemberton :I know the story actually. But I never actually heard it from the lips of babes here. I've I've heard it from Kurt Schneider. He wrote it up at one point, but I'd like to hear the exact story of I mean, folks, this man that you're listening to, and you're gonna get the full story on for the next two, two hours or so. He killed a bear in his living room. I didn't kill it. I gave him a headache, the urban legend or the let's just start out with good true data. That's why we've got you on because we're gonna set the record straight now you gotta set the shit straight. So you you were prepping your car. This was the this was the tribe single seat car in your basement at Taco Bell. It was the old girl. Oh, it was your triple grab. bright orange three to one. Leverage sponsor lever transmission sponsored down the side I remember vividly respond. It was a good it was a great pro car. I want to know more about it here in a little bit, but I can't wait to save
Tom Wayes :labrie can tell you about leverage. And thank you for bringing up john leverage. That guy was absolutely incredible. He's a legend. And then did he pass away a few years ago? Yes, sir. He did that. Sorry to hear. I remember hearing that or thinking I'd heard that. So you were you were working on that car? Was this being prepped for 4k? Ah, no. For Glen Helen. Actually, I just I just come home in the spring. And, and I basically it was a i remember correctly, it was I think we had that afternoon race that year where we shared shared race, the race track with another series or something like that. And it was like an afternoon into an evening race. And it was just super over watered. Anyway, back to the point of story. Yeah, I was out in the garage. And I was changing springs because trying to lower the car and take the spare off and lighten it up and Joe Magliano who I've known forever, him and his girlfriend came over and they were on their way to a barbecue. This entire city and you know, at that time, like the black bear population, you know, really You know, third fourth generation trash bears that are smart and like literally it was so bad before again the car's broken into interiors ripped out I mean like either not very old garage three car with a studio but that we just got done building and you know constantly ripping off the double pane beautiful wood windows and breaking in ransack in the place and literally Joe came and was helped me finish up and oh, I think exactly how it went. So the front doors wide open I think it was June at the time May or June and normalcy Saturday in Lake Tahoe just beautiful out front doors wide open. And Joe was like hey man, I need to take off and guess my hand cleaner wash my hands and go over to this barbecue and I was like, Yeah, thanks for the help. You know, we got both space and we changed in the lower spring rates on the on the primaries, right? Just trying to drop it two inches in basically, Joe goes walking up the stairs behind me. We're walking in the front door and I hear it Go Holy shit, that's not a dog. And I went like this and I was like ash yet, and I frickin looked in the brand new stainless fridge and we just got done a kitchen kitchen remodel and the brand new fridge was open, the freezer was open. And I just looked over and I see this black blur and I was like, right in my office. And next to the office was the guest bathroom, and the guest bedroom, and I'm going in my office and I just come home from Alaska and TSA. I took two pistols up there. Usually late in the season, when the bears are active. I usually carry a pistol for, you know, protection for the brown bears that are out in the spring. On certain years, they're really active. And you know, it's the real deal up there. I mean, three years ago, there was a brown bear mauling in Haines, in our le train by a Juno professor that was leading trips trying to climb, we may be getting a little bit ahead because we haven't told this part of the
Wyatt Pemberton :story about your life. You're a backcountry ski guide heli ski guide you guys jump out of helicopters on skis in and you're based in Southeast Alaska there in Haines. And so you do that do that during the winter. But this is you've come back you're it's affected the very beginning of the offseason and right now you're kind of back because it covered but sorry and we're talking about Alaska but I won't make your jumping back and forth from Alaska. Well, it's cuz you work up there half the year and
Tom Wayes :we're getting ahead of ourselves, but but to put context to it, there's context to it right? Yeah. Cuz I TSA my pistols, which means they're unlocked and they're barrel locked, and there's a block on the case and I got my paperwork with TSA and they're in my gear bag and you know, you're paying per pound to get your gear up there every year. Right. And, you know, I basically walk ran in my office and I looked and I had my, I had a Smith and Wesson 501 of those snubnose 50s. They're just miserable things to shoot. And that thing was barrel locked and empty. And then my Springfield for Five was locked in barrel locked and empty and I was like, that's not good, that's not good. And then I looked at my pistols and I was like that's I'm gonna go down in history of Lake Tahoe being the guy that got mauled looking for his pistol keys. I'm not gonna be that guy. And I grabbed my, my Tomahawk and at that time, I was carrying a tomahawk and my god pack like all the time because they just, they were great tools for so many times we're skiing down to sea level with the aircraft, because you can on yours when it snows down below 3030 500 elevation to sea level is incredible. And it's the best thing in the world. It's It's incredible. It's like jet Japan mixed with Russia, just like big pillows and spines. And then there's these beautiful rock wall Kumar's that there's like nowhere else on the planet. And I've seen like 180 pound Black Wolf, eyeball me on the talking. Remember before, like, with clients, you're sitting there and you're like, so Skiing down and you're like, there's a fresh brown bear track. You know, like you're you're in the middle of the wilderness and it's a really cool experience. But point of story. I didn't have anything loaded, everything was locked, grabbed my Tomahawk, and I came out of my office and was standing between the TV looking into the living room. In the meantime, the bear, ran into the bedroom, jumped off the corner of the couch, off the coffee table, and charged me and I'm standing there and a song fusion is only about 12 or 1314 inches long. It's short. So I waited till he was that close and he wasn't a huge bear. I mean, I think he was probably maybe a two year old or something. But he came all the way at me and I waited and I waited, I waited and I finally I was hunkered down my way, my way and I waited, and I hit him right inside the temple. And he went Holness out the front door and I chased him like a crazy person. Just so pissed off with my brand new kitchen that Oh, that was a little much and go chase them out. Throw the tomahawk bounce it off them. And yeah, that's, that's about where that was. So I spent the next two nights on the roof for the bow, but I never got them.
Wyatt Pemberton :And just I can hear like the clanging of your balls in the middle of the story. That's the real version. The other version I've heard is very, very similar, but it was something along the lines of that no guns were voted it was that which you collect tomahawks and I do like tomahawks in the story I was told was, it was hanging on. It was hanging on the wall. It was like a decorative. You're, you're here to tell it. That's crazy.
Tom Wayes :Well, I mean, the thing about you got to put context to it, right, because in Lake Tahoe, I mean, like, I have a friend. He's an airline pilot, and he has so many bears trying to break into his house, like the local sheriff gives them rubber plugs because literally like he can't buy non lethal ammo. And if you shoot a bear in Lake Tahoe, it's a huge deal. Like there's crazy people up here that will literally like stalk you. And think you are the devil. So like, literally you don't wanna be that person. You don't be that person. So like literally, like, I heard, when I call that day I called 911. Cuz I was so jacked up. I was like, I just wrestled. I'm just gonna know what a bear right? Like, I was like, I called my mom when I was like, No, one lady's like, Hello, sir. And I was like, is this the mercy? Well, it was. She's like, what I'm like, not anymore. She's like, yeah. Okay, we're gonna transfer you to share so the sheriff picks up and they're like, Is he still is a bear still in the house and like now, is a bear still hurt? I don't think so. But I did hit him pretty hard. What? Well, I hit him in hand with a tomahawk, and she's like, excuse me. She's like, you might be the first person. Since the Washoe Indians. It's hit a bear with a tomahawk. I don't even know what to say. But in all fairness, like there was 12 break ins that day before noon. According to the sheriff. All bears, bears in houses. Imagine if you're on your back porch, Wyatt and you're just having a nice barbecue and you're cooking some ice tried to And all of a sudden a black bear comes walking through the middle of your living room with your daughter in there. So yeah, it's like that's the reality up here now, like there's so many bears and they don't care. They'll come up and we'll start pushing your screen windows. I mean, people put nail boards out and electric cattle fence around their houses. A bear is a very smart animal to look at Joey raccoon.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah, just a huge trash panda. Exactly. Well, thank you for putting that story out there like setting the record straight. The versions I'd heard I've heard many versions, but that one from the horse's mouth. That's a That's crazy. I can't even imagine walking into my kitchen have a beer just Hello. Hey, man. What's up? We're sitting there. No shirt, board shorts and flip flops chasing a black bear out of the front of my house.
Tom Wayes :Joke. The funniest part was joke comes up and he's like, holy shit. That's not a barely goes. Taryn as Taryn is out the front door and slams the door shut behind him. So I'm in there with the bear and the door shut and I hear him from the front yard. Do you want me to help? The front door because like yeah Oh, wow. So your torque up your back in Tahoe now, right? No, I'm in Reno. I mean, yeah, that's right. So you're but you're back in the lower 48 Yeah, unfortunately. Well, you should be back but yeah, just a little early this year with COVID and everything. And so you guys shut down Seba, which is south east Alaska backcountry adventures back country adventures. Yes. How many how many Heloise Do you guys have 2020 this year we had we got busy and we had three aircraft this year three B two, three B twos from coastal helicopters and a Juno. Those guys are great partners ours and amazing company to work with. Got some great pilots and super stoked to be a pilot and the aircraft relationship is a is a huge thing, especially in southeast, you know where you got big peaks in coastal conditions and ever changing weather and the thing that's neat about it Se is it has an ability that the weather clears a little more quickly there. So we get a little more percentage of fly days than I have in other spots in Alaska. And the proximity to the coast range with the biggest coastal mountain range in the world, it's kind of a no brainer, don't want to be as close to those as possible. Because you're in a precipitation shadow that creates just amazing skiing some of the best, the best game in the world. And you brought the relationship between the Halley's and the pilot and the skis and all stuff. But also you guys have a lot of camera guys that roll out with you, right? We've done so much over the years, like production wise, like I've guided Travis rice when he was working on his Red Bull projects. Richie perman personal friend of mine, he's a great dude victory through Xavier delarue. And then our own internal own production we do you know, I mean, we're fortunate that we've always been has one of our owners and that name sounds familiar, right. He's done some care.
Wyatt Pemberton :Way to work
Tom Wayes :yeah. whisman Westman, the mongoose mongoose the goose is loose I mean like that guys I brought him down to King of the hammers to help shoot their yo crew for for Dave when when k which was starting and you can you can recognize some of his original k which aerial pictures you know when those guys were flying like almost nine or 10 hours actual Hobbs type in the aircraft that day.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah, I specifically remember I mean, I think it's famous I bet this guy probably has framed in his study but it's Lauren Healy. Yeah. wisman hanging out. The helicopter catches Lauren doing a pass but Lauren just mashes a G out, throws the other two miles at the most glorious
Tom Wayes :dirt flying. He jumped over that guy.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah, who was it? He jumped over. I feel like it was me. I
Tom Wayes :don't remember who that was. But I mean, honestly, like Western was like, yeah, that was cool. Like, like, you know, whatever. It was just the other day. But the thing that was so revolutionary back then was wisman was wearing his ski bibs, which was a pair of ski bibs I designed for Eddie Bauer, which was cool. It was like a side note. So I love designing gear, and he put a second camera in between this double zipper. So he had a second camera on his chest that he shot on a remote while he was shooting his other camera while he was hanging out the door. That year. I had the filler plate loosen up on my car, and it was leaking gas. No, it wasn't a filler plate. It was the rollover valve that had the stupid ball bearing in it that thing on screwed and then the plastic washer and all of it fell into the tank. And I remember coming up the top of outer limits and Dave looks over at me because there was like a huge traffic jam. And he landed a helicopter and jumped out of it. And he was standing there spawn people that had gas just sloshing out of the top of my cell and he was like, Baba, that's a problem. I was like, yeah, I'm on top of it. We got some duct tape and we're going to fix it in the pits where I'm almost at the pits. are you sticking a rag in there? And he's like, Come on now. So literally, it was even playing Was my co driver complained back in the day on the board. And he was my co driver and we just got done passed and Roger and Brad and it took us forever to get by those guys. They were just making dust and we finally get around to Twentynine Palms side and we get to thrash throw the bag of tools back in the floor, like the hell with it, and we start going back towards the finish. And that was the year that whisman and Jeff were flying in that black Huey. Yeah, that was Brad from high performance heli from Big Bear and he was chasing us as literally, the tool bag and all the tools were lighting on fire in the belly of the car, as Dave's in the helicopter with wisman on like the last stretch down pummel pass into that finish. And literally, I hear on the radio, they're like, get the extinguishers ready. He's coming in, like literally come speeding into the finish. And like all the fire extinguishers, and like literally we're going so hard rejected the spear out of it. Because the first time I met Lucas Murphy, he came over and he was a psych Dude, I want to hang out with you. Like anybody seen my spare tire and wheel? I could really use it.
Wyatt Pemberton :Right on. Oh man. Yeah, so you wrote down wisman you brought down Ingle, Britain jeffing Britain he's been on a list of minding anyone that's crazy enough to hang out have a halo and chase racecars and chase red.
Tom Wayes :If somebody I'd like yes, amazing person, that guy that guy's that guy you need to get on me to get on the talent tank because humility and strength and just performance. I mean, like that guy just exemplifies everything. I mean, I cut trees with that guy for 15 years he mentored me and how to how to cut trees and I would say honestly, between him and I, we cut down more hazard trees and cut down more trees and did more crane trees over lakefront houses than anybody in the history like tall. I mean, we cut down so much wood, huge trees, huge trees, like I mean, him and I together I can't I can't even count on on so many trees over 180 feet. I mean that's the thing why like people don't realize like going down Rubicon springs for me was like going down to Willy Wonka's Chocolate Chocolate Factory, because like he could done the Rubicon springs and there's all growth trees that are over 200 feet tall. It's like there's furs that the tops have fallen out after a beetle kill that are still 180 foot tall. Like there's 220 footers that 20 foot 2025 feet a bug kill have fallen out of and they're still huge they're so huge down there eight nine footers just massive pickles and like for years I would go down there and go down because I was always a Land Cruiser guy write me down my friend jack rice and going in for cruise Moab and going into the springs you know and like i would i would bring my 372 with me cuz I was always cutting trees so I'd bring a little bit of salt gas and you know my 372 and I was dropping 180 footers in the springs and they You know that all the old timers there Steve Morris and all those guys were like if you work at the springs you don't pay to camp at the springs. So every time I come down there they were like, oh, you're back. You're back. Can you take down this one? You know and like I didn't know fallen some huge old nasty thing. And
Wyatt Pemberton :I remember being at Kentucky. I don't remember which year it was, but it was like Battle of Sturgis or battle. I don't think it's a battle bluegrass but it was at Sturgis, you talking to Bill's race. You talked to
Tom Wayes :Bill's race. Miller. You clean the corner off Miller's car.
Wyatt Pemberton :That did not happen. did not. He was Hey,
Tom Wayes :you're like this is mine.
Wyatt Pemberton :I was in front of him. I was a position in front of him. I moved all the long blessing. He was so mad. No, no. But but it was that we came out of whatever the fields and you shot into some trees. And on the first day we when we got there. I didn't I'd seen your car there. But we did. See you. And then you come trotting back up out of a pickup truck carrying a chainsaw. And you're like, yeah, we cleaned a bunch out. Let's go take some cars through and see what it looks like. And then two hours later, we got to clean some
Tom Wayes :how that actually went. Okay, let me tell you how that actually works.
Wyatt Pemberton :They tells you to go chop some wood
Tom Wayes :and let me explain to see how it actually goes. So normally on an East Coast race, I'm so jammed up from not being able to raise Stampede because he moved it up early, so I can't even do it because I'm in Alaska, right. So I come back from Alaska. I'm already a race down. So I can't do the West Coast series. So I have to do the East Coast series. So I commit to like, Okay, I'm gonna drive Kentucky right so I get to Kentucky from taco Yeah, it's all and I'm usually the first person there. And like this has happened multiple times the only person that usually was a challenge for me to beat there was a girl straps dad go straps, dad would usually like roll in second and be like, Oh, you're already here. And I was like, I don't like being late. And he always chuckled about that. And whenever I was talking, he come over and he you know, I liked hanging out this pops. I just always gave myself a lot of buffer because I hated getting there late. And I hated having a problem. You never know you're gonna problem that's a long way to drive. Right? Right. You know, so like basically Dave, a lot of times on a lot of these races would show up and I'd already be there happened to hotsprings. He's like a or, you know, happened in something. I mean, that's normal. That's normal. Like I always love to help everybody else for help get the races, take the courses, do whatever. Like if I show up early, you know, I'm helping those guys. I'm helping Trotter I'm helping JT I'm helping those guys set the course. It's not an advantage. You know, you're just, you're just working. Don't hands. You know, we basically we drove around that course and it was super, super tight and it was all poison oak. And, you know, I grew up in Pennsylvania on a farm and like, my dad didn't get poison oak or Poison Ivy, and I didn't either. So like literally I made so much money doing odd jobs. Weed whacking poison oak and poison ivy as a kid. It wasn't even funny. I'd run the tractor, the bush hog and do neighbor's fence rows and whatever. If I breed that stuff from my neighbor's yard, just breathe. I mean, if I even glance over, I will really break out. So literally, I go into these woods and Dave's like that's too tight. You're a tree guy, you should get that out of the way for me. I was like, sorry, I was gonna curse and they'll buy clothes for you. I was like, I don't think so. So then I was like, Alright, let's go get a chainsaw. We got to deal with this. This is going to be this is going to be terrible. Like Bill had a cool course. But it was just too tight. I literally went in the woods. And Dave was like, okay, and he's ready to spectate. And I was like, you're not spectating. So I took down these trees, and he's like, What now? I'm gonna watch you remove them. Like, that's not how this works. I'm gonna cut this stuff up and you're gonna help me move. He's like, I'm allergic. I'm like, I don't care. So we literally rolled it all the way. And he had to help and then we get back and I was like, this is how you get rid of the problem. And I took SOG gas and a rag and wipe myself down and I showed him how to do it. So him being allergic didn't get it because he wiped down with Saugus.
Wyatt Pemberton :Well, I was much appreciate I still bent a rear axle on that right? Yeah, of course huge is huge. It was small with a very big footprint. I think was not small. Yeah, you bring a class one two. Ultra for Woods race in the East Coast. There's been smarter things done that was not up there.
Tom Wayes :That thing was fun. It just needed a disk needed like motor to foot a track with through the woods. Yeah.
Wyatt Pemberton :Anyway, man, well, let's get into it. Man. You mentioned you're gay. You mentioned you're from Pennsylvania. Bartow. Berks County. Yeah, I don't know what else is there. Actually, there's nothing there except for reading reading. How you
Tom Wayes :reading trexler town so trexler town was like where the velodrome was for road cyclists for us team. Okay, so there was a bunch of cyclist influence in that area as well. And then there was a little ski area that was right next to where I live called dough mountain ski area, and that was a four or 500 vertical ski hill that uh, I grew up skiing since I was like, eight years old nine scan and whatnot.
Wyatt Pemberton :And that's like, it's like it's crazy. When we talk about the ultra for community and the guys running the top echelon, you know, your front runners always in that discussion, Bleiler, he's clink clingers Berg. He's 75 miles away. That's like, what's even funnier is it's even closer. Why? Because my, my grandparents, my mom's parents, basically
Tom Wayes :the long family, my Uncle Tom and Phyllis long and my grandfather they they grew up in Canada, and on the Susquehanna River. My Uncle Tom has a campground called the ne ne Creek Campground. And that is literally like, in boilers for nine. I mean, it's right there. I mean, and that's what's funny to me is like, that's where I grew up. where, you know, seeing people fishing for muskie, you know? No, just Pennsylvania. You know, like I grew up in, in between Berks County and Bucks County.
Wyatt Pemberton :Tell me about your parents.
Tom Wayes :Not a lot of scam there. My dad was a, an elementary school principal. And before that he was always involved in education and he was also a football player. He was a nose guard. And he grew up in New Jersey and was a first mate and did a lot of ocean fishing and Hamline and he was a badass, he met my mom, and she's even more badass than him. She's gnarly. My mom's gnarly, like, I've got to add my dad and then I've got the intensity of my mom. So I kind of got the pair of them into me, but uh, but basically, fast forward a few years so 1979 we moved to tufts church, which is where our farm was, and ended up by the end of it once my dad got a couple more pieces of land. It was 100 right there and it was a it was a regulated hunting grounds that was kind of a bird farm with a dog kennel and the guy that care take the whole place and wind up with 100 acres by the end of it and we moved in there in 79 it had an outhouse not really hardly any running water in the house in like one outlay per room and with with power and let's put it in perspective. It was like an 1800 Stone farmhouse that like six foot windows and we burn 13 cord of hardwood a winter to try to keep heating that thing and had a post and being building hay barns and like we had a 1937 john deere model a with a cultivator under it, and like I grew up with a Shetland pony and we had a cow for a while we had pigs chickens. We had a bunch of horses. A lot of deer on a lot of trout, trout fishing, you know
Wyatt Pemberton :1979 was not that long ago. It Yes, it wasn't yes, no, it wasn't, but to me 9079 Not necessarily have running water in the house. It almost seems people. If you say that today we're in 2020 Yeah, you know, the house I grew up in didn't have any work. I remember being a kid. We had friends that didn't have have running water in their house where we were in Kansas. Now. They were they were older. I remember our phone, we run a party line phone. So everyone on our road is about seven miles. There's about 10 of us. It rang the phone ring every single house down the line and people pick up how insane is that? That's not that long ago. I was born in 76. And I remember this so this is probably at at one time, man and now we're walking around with you know, a smartphone, look up anything you want in the world. That's crazy. Yes, locate yourself in a second.
Tom Wayes :Yeah, it is crazy. I mean to to be there. And my mom was a AP English teacher and teaching English as a second language at a private school that was in the in the same town as well and my dad was in public school system. So I had the choice. You know, as a as a kid I was like, do you want to go to public school? Do you want to go to private school? I chose the public school. I don't know, maybe I'd be a different person today if I made that choice then but you know, there's, there's points that come along. I remember that that moment. And then, you know, when I was about to start ski race and more seriously, and my cousin bill who ended up going to the Citadel, I went down there for his graduation and I almost went military. So there was a moment where like, I could be a totally different person right now or would I be the same person and just have more different memories? You know, like, yeah, there was some moments there where she could have changed
Wyatt Pemberton :but Charleston, it could change anyway. Charleston's just gorgeous like I fall in love without playing. I
Tom Wayes :didn't even know what to say. When I went there. I was just like, I was there for the graduation. And I was like, This is the coolest thing I've ever seen in my life. Like I didn't even want to say to Southern Belles, the beautiful campus, just a tradition that proudness of all of it. Like, I mean to come in there and like see my cousin who I just idolized, you know, go down there and just be the man. He was like, Go to Desert Storm like that, to me was like that was changing for me right but somehow escaped skin one.
Wyatt Pemberton :Did you have any siblings? Yeah, my sister got the older sister. Yep. What's she up to these days?
Tom Wayes :She's an amazing lady. So her husband, Scott and her. They met in college and at that time she was a midwife and becoming a nurse and midwifery and he is a doctor as well and they actually moved to Zuni, New Mexico and we're living on the rez there and he was working on the diabetes program. And they met in Marquette, Michigan. So once they kind of had enough time on the rez, where they were like, you know, it's time to go they move back to Marquette and build a house up there and raised her three girls so my nieces are pretty interesting girls.
Intro/Outro :Stay tuned. Your talent tank is in vogue yet
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Intro/Outro :Now back to the show.
Tom Wayes :So my mom and dad basically did the opposite of snowbirds. They actually moved colder, which makes no sense. So I give my sister a hard time about that constantly. But so basically they live in Marquette, Michigan. So instead of getting warm, my parents moved cold so they moved to market they sold the farm and a really nice couple bought the farm
Wyatt Pemberton :your mom wanted to be by those babies she needed by your grandbabies.
Tom Wayes :there's a there's a little bit of time in between here so in between, they got a house down in Cape May New Jersey, next to a good friend of mines from high school. Kane wins. And basically they got down there my dad got to reinvigorate his love for the ocean and being on a boat. And he got another fishing boat. He got to do some time fishing and enjoy himself. And then a few years ago now, he had a stroke and I was on my way out to I forget what East Coast race it was right now, but I met it. I mean, there's always the constant people that are always just amazing help you know what I mean? Like, you know, Schofield and James Schofield solid humans. I mean, like, I'm like, shits going down this this fog. I was like, Oh shit, and then like, next thing you know, I'm dragging my trailer to Bama and stuffing it somewhere and we were at Oklahoma. I rang the car out in the mud hole. Try not to get stuck and over revs that thing. blew the valve springs out of it, and then towed it to Bama was working on it with James. But dad has a stroke. I drive out to New Jersey with my dually from there to see him and then spend time with him and then come back. He recovered really well and was doing awesome. Got the meds on board quick enough. You know, literally I looked back and think about my dad and like building the farm that we add like, I mean, it wasn't a working farm. I mean, they were both they had other jobs but like, I mean to completely restore an 1800s farmhouse, and then every single outbuilding included, when it's all post and beam and like, that's just amazing. I remember my mom like being up on the, on the A of the front of the barn. When my dad had a pair of vise grips taped to a piece of rope clipped on the siding and then my mom was hauling it up with a rope to put the siding up on the side of the barn like to mean resourcefulness and
Wyatt Pemberton :that's where you got it from. You're resourceful dude.
Tom Wayes :You gotta be handy.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah. In everyone that knows you is always like, man, if I break down somewhere I want Tom to be with me. It's not even like a running joke. It's like just a statement made like that guy. He's MacGyver
Tom Wayes :was like the thousand last year. I mean, 1000 last year and you know, like Jason Call me it was like dude, I'm freaking doing this thing with Ford. I'm like, that's awesome. And he's like I'd really love you to chase me from what metonymy wash on. And I was like I got you, you know and like that's the thing that that's the amazing part about the Raptor isn't like,
Wyatt Pemberton :oh, we're gonna talk Raptors
Tom Wayes :around Oculus ik you want to talk some ridiculous I mean the amount of exploration I've got to go so many cool places in that truck and you've only had it since June it's mind boggling it's it's been on my data all the way to Oregon, all the way back and six ways from Sunday between here and Scorpion Bay. And then mixing Alaska
Wyatt Pemberton :in Alaska.
Tom Wayes :Sprinkle that in
Wyatt Pemberton :but I saw it I saw it in the hammers. You had it at the hammers in February. You're in the desert loop. Yeah, that's it's it is a good looking truck. It's my favorite color Raptor. It's the the
Tom Wayes :earth. Well, it's not Earth actually. It's actually molten, molten red or whatever underneath. And I wrapped it last year. Are you kidding me? I wish it was Train color but it's the bright red orange it's the original Raptor are its original Raptor arco gotcha
Wyatt Pemberton :No, I didn't know it was red
Tom Wayes :I've 11 was really 11
Wyatt Pemberton :I thought it was there. So let me go ahead and believe that it's
Tom Wayes :everybody's got stories about that drug that's the terrible part. No, it's really great. Like that truck is done all of the r&d for icon like all of it. Like everybody's been like, Oh, yeah, I was, you know,
Wyatt Pemberton :boom, and I was
Tom Wayes :on the roof and then like, Oh, I helped, you know, fold up the training now, you know, like that trucks got history. So as a kid, yeah.
Wyatt Pemberton :were you like as a kid curiosities? Were you in sports? Did you play football? You're a big dude.
Tom Wayes :I paid I played safety policeman safety. I was an amazing football player by any means. It was hard to have the attention span to really like focus on all of it. I hated baseball. A little bit track and field but you know, public school, we didn't have we didn't have skiing. I was really interested in skiing.
Wyatt Pemberton :So when did that happen?
Tom Wayes :When Bill was like an amazing skier and I just I wanted to ski so badly The influence of like going to doe mountain for the first time, like I remember getting dropped off, and it was like my first taste of freedom where I was like, I was completely by myself. And if I wanted to jump off anything I could if I wanted to ski as fast as I could, it was like, the ultimate end like, not a team sport.
Wyatt Pemberton :It's crazy how you that is to map your trajectory to today and we're here. Yeah, something else. So after high school though, you go to Vermont. So from pa yo, Vermont, you go to Green Mountain College. Yep. How do you say the name of that town? portney pulled me Hold me. Yeah. And you end up with a Z out of there with a degree in recreation. I believe that's a degree
Tom Wayes :it's a liberal school at best.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah, I read it. I was like No, but that's such a fitting that's such a such a thing. Yeah, well, I can see you excel in it that I can see just being around you enough. I know like that's Wow, that's that's literally right. right up your alley. Completely up your alley.
Tom Wayes :No, it's interesting because like, you know, I was in college there and I think was my freshman or sophomore year, there was an opportunity. My mom was like encouraging me to do a bunch of random stuff. And she was like, Hey, you want to do a Knowles course? And I was like, yeah, I'll do an all scores. So I did a 75 day Knowles course. And they gave me credit for American history at that college, which was actually really cool. Like, I learned so much like, I mean, I learned a lot.
Wyatt Pemberton :Then Knowles is National Outdoor Leadership School in our school school. Yeah, they did an all over the world. You could go to Bora Bora. You could go to Thailand. You could go to, you know, the Andes Mountains wherever they had something everywhere.
Tom Wayes :They do a big deal in Wyoming too. But I think, you know, back then, like comparatively Outward Bound versus Knowles, our bound was a little more of people with a little more disciplinary problems. Then Knowles at that time, basically did a 75 day Alaska course which started out backpacking. Key news. And it was basically low impact camping and being in bear terrain and bear habitat and really just being able to go through a lot of cold wet Creek crossings and carrying heavy packs and dealing, dealing with your shit. And, you know, I was really excited. I trained super hard, because, you know, I was really inspired to go up there and like, take the opportunity. The second phase was a, we hiked from Wonder Lake, but Denali, and then hiked out to mount Miller, and I came up with an email or two peaks right now. But it was basically my first taste of glacial navigation and crawling around the glacier. And that made a huge impact on me and just crawling through Moulins and, and just surf racks and crevasses, and I thought it was the coolest thing ever, basically getting to see you know, a big Alaska and then the third phase, the instructors kind of led us out a little bit more and then we went to Prince William Sound and when I Whittier See kayaks and that was actually when mount rugged erupted. So without any outside communications, we had a volcanic eruption with full ash come demos without knowing what it was. That was kind of an interesting one. But that was pretty neat like catching salmon and dragon mon to the bow of your boat while you're like paddling through Prince William Sound with killer whales and everything else. I mean, like, it's the real world.
Wyatt Pemberton :How many years after vowed to us was that
Tom Wayes :it couldn't have been remade. Not that long. So like we're rolling rocks over and like literally, we're finding rocks under oil under rocks. Yeah, like memory on that dude. I appreciate that.
Wyatt Pemberton :Is what happened up there. So was Denali referred to as McKinley still at that point
Unknown Speaker :on? Yeah, same thing. Yeah. It's all the same. Yeah.
Wyatt Pemberton :But now when you're up there, it's really just reverted to everyone refers it to Denali. It's no longer McKinley right.
Tom Wayes :Yeah, we use Sr. For sure.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah, that's, which is the segue into talking about scheme. So you got into It, you're on kitchenette, you go to Knowles, you really kind of set yourself on this path. And I'm gonna say this right now for Jonathan, for whom this is the inflection point. You know, he loves that phrasing, I love to say to it's one of my favorites. But you you have this, you've been set on this path. You've been set on this career path, and you've been on it for 30 years at this point. You start skiing in the northeast, you start getting good, you're good enough that it's obvious that you're at the peak of where you're at. You're at the top of your game, and you take the leap to move out west. You move to Tahoe, you're skiing it. You have to help me on on on why I actually moved up. bikes. Yeah. I see. I didn't know that. So yeah, you got into getting downhill mountain bikes, but then you end up like your home home courses like Squaw Valley, right.
Tom Wayes :So basically, I moved to Tahoe, and I came out to race, the North America's championships. And I was at At the time, downhill mountain biking was just starting to grow. And I started racing in Vermont. And at that time, there really wasn't a designated downhill racing. There was just cross country and downhillers were still racing cross country. So to be better skiing. I was getting really serious on my bike and was really motivated and raced mountain Hunter, which was a World Cup race at that time, and was racing northern National impro and started getting a little bit of sponsorship to race downhill mountain bikes. And I moved out to Tahoe to race, the North America's championship, which was at Squaw Valley, and then I was going to go down to mammoth and race, the Reebok eliminator and the Kamikaze. You know, basically he was racing a little bit down the mountain bikes and trying to still ski and it was hard lemon Dude, I didn't want to I mean, I was like, I don't want to go back to Pennsylvania. So I literally moved in with a friend of mine that uh, Started taxi business in in Squaw Valley and moved in with a bunch of people that ended up being the rebel Air Force and a bunch of maniacs and and you know honestly like the tempo of what's pro and squad has been really high for a really long time
Wyatt Pemberton :where the level you were racing at the level your skin at you got to see a lot of the world.
Tom Wayes :Oh yeah no like honestly I feel super blessed. back then. Scott Mellon was the marketing director for marker and he got picked up but Benetton and got hired, I believe is the vice president at the time. He hired me to start skiing for those guys. That was like my first real opportunity where I really got to design a pair of skis and design some clothes and get a budget to go skiing and be me. That was pretty cool. And I had an amazing team. There's a bunch of really talented athletes on that program at the time. I mean, Norton has spread it That time was was incredible like at that time, just give me a second here. Bodie, Miller, Shane McConkey Jeff Holden who jumped 160 foot cliff and Alaska that year just like gifted bc skier love to jump off huge airs. Jimbo Morgan, who another huge influence in my life, Olympian, US Ski Team speed skier, Brad Holmes, original bad boy from squaw, you know, and that was back when Glen plake and Scott Schmitt and all these guys, anger Britain was in the mix, too. I mean, all of these guys were just super talented skiers, about 19. I mean, well, let me just think about images. Think about them. So originally, like getting early ski partners, Jim Morrison, Christian palm della, we want some incredible places. I mean, they're in the early 90s going to show many France and ski mountaineering and wanting to swing ice tools and that was kind of in the beginning of, you know, learning, getting mentored, a little bit spicy. Some painting contractor friends of mine that were actually super badass mountain heroes and ice climbers, learning how to be proficient in ice climbing.
Wyatt Pemberton :And you got into that for a while right? Are you still
Tom Wayes :into it? I love ice climbing. I haven't done it in longer than I care to admit but like have a nice tools and your rope put me in the game coach, I'll come out the other end.
Wyatt Pemberton :Well in your skills you what you started as a kid you you've certainly I know you honed him in 75 days at Knowles, but all the mountaineering skills.
Tom Wayes :Now, that was just more glacier stuff, but I mean reading train, you know, reading train, and that's something I'm super blessed with. I have an ability to remember terrain, better than a lot of people. And I figured out how to visualize the finally and how to trigger memories that activate the visualization of it and retrain the speed. I mean, that's what's always motivated me to desert race and then when off road races reading, training, speed, and during memorization, and that's what's always carried over on so many sports for me that just make all the difference in the world from dirt bikes to snow machine. And I mean, that's the coolest part, like the amount of places I've got to go on a sled. I mean, my ears scan for our tricks, you know, in the later years, around 99 moving into 2000s, signing with our tariffs and being one of their first ambassadors that's ever been on their program. And that was when they're still privately owned and being down to Chile when I met some Russians. And that was a huge turning point for me when I got to go to Russia three different years and explore the Chaco Peninsula in the whole Sochi and the Caucasus region. You know, when when literally like, there was no Americans there. I mean, when we went to come Shaka, we were the second Americans ever there, you know, and that's neat to be able to like, tell your granddad you like, Hey, I'm gonna tell my granddad I was like, Hey, I'm going to go to Petra pub last come chesky he was like, you're going wire? nuts. Yeah, I'm going. I'm going heli skiing over there he goes, that's the nuclear sub base. What are you talking about?
Wyatt Pemberton :You know, but no, that's immensely fun. But women there did devex games kick off.
Tom Wayes :So that would have been Nordica era. So my brain works weird. So that was an order to stuff so that would have been, that would have been late 90s. So yeah, X Games Crested Butte racing skier cross skier cross kind of started in Lake Tahoe, and steer x. And basically it started with my friend Erin, Martin and a few other guys who were promoters that brought Red Bull in the United States and tow city was their test market. And their first event ever was the rebel ultra cross at Mount rose and I got second in that with Greg Nebbiolo. And that was my first cash ever. And I spent it immediately go into valleys and going heli skiing. And that was my first heli trip in Alaska where I was like, This is awesome. And then I immediately went home and was like, I need to get up here and guide because I can't afford just come up and go ski and so that's when I was like, I want to be up here as much as possible and at the time, Kevin Quinn opened Points North heli I helped him open that in 1998 into 99. And that was my first years guide in Alaska. That was the first year I drove up in my 89 Chevy.
Wyatt Pemberton :What's your nickname up there? They call you. You've got a nickname. I don't have a nickname you do. I don't
Tom Wayes :you wish I did? I don't know. I
Wyatt Pemberton :swear I swear I saw something they call you like Sarge or like the old Sarge or something like that.
Tom Wayes :Oh, that was the guy that wrote that article that you read. And that was in a back country magazine. I probably agree. That's actually a pretty cool article, but it was just the way that Reggie wrote it. It was just he was trying to be dramatic. What magazine was it it was in a magazine it was an art there was a there's like a 10 page feature in this one mag with the opening picture of the of the shot is this like double page that palm della took of me standing on Mount St wise. I have not seen it okay on the face. It's It's pretty cool. It's pretty cool.
Wyatt Pemberton :Now I'm gonna have to look at but I remember the first time I you know, I knew you from King of the hammers I need from King of the hammers. We knew from the the rig you raced at the time this is Oh 910 11 somewhere in there I did not know you were a skier someone had told me that and then I find online in the picture that I found online or maybe it was on pirate probably on pirate was you on a not skiing but it was on a sled but your way the hell up above any tree line and the slope is something way way greater than 45 degrees that doing a shit hook.
Tom Wayes :Yes, it was slashed her. Yeah, it's a Western shot. That's a Western shot. That's called a shit hook.
Wyatt Pemberton :Whatever it is badass. No, yeah, I saw that. I was like,
Unknown Speaker :Oh,
Wyatt Pemberton :I know this guy. This guy's crazy. This. No, this guy's really crazy. No,
Tom Wayes :yeah. No, where you can go on a sewing machine is pretty cool. It's me. You know, like riding up there riding down here. Like getting ride as much as I have in Canada, like the teammates, on our terrorists that Canadians I got to ride with like I got to see some really neat zones you know and like
Wyatt Pemberton :technology and those things just went leaps and bounds in the last two
Tom Wayes :just Oh yeah. No and that's actually a tie in to Paul warshall I mean that's actually funny he he's a big snow machine and builds turbo kits for those things so you know if he has any more but one of my teammates on Eddie Bauer and also a amazing snowboarder I super care about Chris Coulter. I mean he was he came out to hang out and pit for me at two Ella one year and Paul with his friend and he's like yeah, my buddy Paul's building the K wage car and I was like yeah, yeah, sure. He is right at this time. He hadn't showed up yet. And I was like everybody in their brother's building away scar sure he is. And then he shows up with that danzo motor and like that thing all dialed in and being a boy from Alaska and I was like him and I hit it off awesome. And like you know, we were just two peas in a pod and like our crews hung out forever for him to be a salt lake guy and like, be like super good friends with like, one of my I mean, I Paul no will tell you that but i I think Paul could have been a pro snowboarder, but he won't admit that to you. You should ask him about that when you get a chance
Wyatt Pemberton :that chance needs to happen. He is so high on my list a loose, loose, macabre. I've had many people ask me to Hey, when do you have them? Paul horschel on and I don't have relationship with Paul horschel by now I call him and I'd still been told that he was still telling me no just because he doesn't do public stuff. I was with Jeremy Dickinson couple years ago. He qualified on the pole for
Tom Wayes :I got him set up with BMG. I turned in front of the development team. There you
Wyatt Pemberton :go. That was me. You're gonna have to put in a good word for me. I don't
Tom Wayes :know if I can. He's on NATO now.
Wyatt Pemberton :Somebody maybe maybe Shinwell. Sir Dave or somebody they had like this King's throne or were they were the pole sitter would sit on this thing until they got knocked off during the Power Hour. Well, Paul ends up being the one who's supposed to be on that thing. Only there's no way you were going to get him on this year. He left. He went to his trailer he did. Jeremy Dickinson who gets the radio called, hey, we need you to get Paul and bringing back over here. So I'm on the in the side by side, we go over there and Paul's wife is up on top of the back of the race trailer, and she's watching and she looks on. He's not gonna come out. He's on a fool's errand. That's funny. He's a hell of a fabricator hell of a driver. Yeah, I know what's going on in his head. Just a lot of people want to plug in there and see because it's it's got a bunch of magic on the on the winning side, good people. So all your your skiing and you still ski every year you just came back from Haynes? How have you been able to stay on top of your game doing that as you've gotten with age,
Tom Wayes :stay healthy? Well, I quit smoking a couple years ago. We were made three years ago now. No nicotine no to nothing. I'm glad I finally could kick that habit. And I feel really healthy right now. I feel really strong. 2005 was tough. You know when I broke my arm and the nerve damage now. I had my left arm that really sent me back and to come back from that, even with the disabilities and my left arm, I still feel pretty stoked, you know? Because in driving off road cars not easy, you know and honestly the amount of feeling I have my left arm isn't incredible by any means.
Wyatt Pemberton :So is that the wreck I saw on I saw this on YouTube who starred on MTV was that what it was and they interview you and it's like a very young Tom waste I got blasted
Tom Wayes :Yeah, I compound humorous my left arm and got a heli flight down to Reno and good story here so burger and his wife were there because burger used to help me a bunch on a bunch of the different film shoots because he thought it was it was fun and he's you know he's burger. He's burger. So basically like burger brought the flight nurses from the from the heli up to grab me to drag me down to the alley. You know, like I was hurt. But that took seven surgeries in one year to get out of that like here's a good story burger and I go into Rubicon and he's like, you're gonna lose your mind if you don't get out of the house. And I was like, Yeah, right. So we're in my land cruiser. The camera fed 39 or 44 TSL is on at the time. sm 420. And I had a picc line in the IV antibiotics going, and I had an IV bag hanging from the B pillar driving an SM for 20 with one hand with an arm and a crutch, an IV going with burger in the passenger seat with a shovel going in the Rubicon.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah, he didn't tell me any of these stories. He has so many stories
Tom Wayes :to tell you this story about me stapling his headshot with his wife stapler.
Wyatt Pemberton :So you use the Andrea's stapler
Tom Wayes :subber when he had that rusty braid buggy, it had somebody put the B pillar, Plexiglas in or Lexan with the quarter 20s facing forward. So he laced his head open when he almost rolled over backwards because he's a little bigger than would fit in that car.
Wyatt Pemberton :He's like, six, three,
Tom Wayes :yeah, wedge him in that thing and he laced himself over He just laid his head open super bad. And we get to his house and he's just like, This isn't good. My wife's gonna kill me. This isn't good. My wife's gonna kill me and I was like, let me see that thing. And you know, like, I've been an EMT and the welders first responders, it's like 97, right?
Wyatt Pemberton :His wife's a nurse, so I'm sure she does have a bag.
Tom Wayes :She literally he literally calls Android and he's like, Tom's thinking about stapling my head. What do you think about that, instead of coming to the ER, she's like, no, that'd be fine. Literally, like, I just I grabbed the stapler, and I like spread the hair on the back of his head, and I was like, you're ready? And he was like, Yes. It was like, wham, you could feel a thing like go down, hit the bone and like, scan and then peel off. And this is like, eyes crying looks up at me. And he's just like, I won't say what he said.
Wyatt Pemberton :But he's a tough sob.
Tom Wayes :His wife came home and she was like, you actually did a really nice job and he kept the hair out of there. Nice work, so
Wyatt Pemberton :you can stay for my husband at any time. What an awesome woman. So yeah, when did you start doing the trees? When did you start your tree business there in the Tahoe area?
Tom Wayes :Shoot, what year was that? Um, forgive me on the year but it was basically, in the beginning of when I started doing tree work was right about the time when I got my first ski magazine cover. So Hank of reshot ski magazine, and I remember I was cutting trees, and I was down the West Shore, and he called me. So it's probably about a year before that. So that would have been atomic skis. So that would have been late 90s, early 2000s 2000, maybe one in there somewhere. So new angle Britain then and you guys did it. I didn't know him that well, yet. I wrote him on. I wrote up with him on the chairlift a couple times. We were going over a Katy 22 and going up the fingers. And I remember, we're talking skis, and everybody was jumping off everything back then. And I remember I talked to him up on grand chief peak, and he asked me He's like, Hey, I heard you grew up on a farm we got an interest in learn how to do tree work and I was like yeah I'll talk about it and next he knew I went from like learning a little bit about tree work to fully embraced it. And you know, we were running this off five days a week, thousands hours a bobcat and crane trees over lakefront houses, huge trees, run the saw a lot as
Wyatt Pemberton :somebody's got to do it right.
Tom Wayes :I'm happy I never cut myself with a song. I'm proud of that. That's hard. I think so many people like everybody's got a story about their granddad or uncle or who dad or whoever's got a chainsaw freakin cut on them. Like, I mean, I cut myself with a table saw when I was a little kid, but like, I never cut myself with a chainsaw.
Wyatt Pemberton :I don't have any chainsaw stories. I regularly use mine. I've got two of them. I've got a steel, and then I've got a husky. They both have their place. And I usually try to limit myself to two tanks, a gas through the Husky and a day. After that I'm like done like I need. It's gonna be a 12 pack and it's more than that to go to bed and then the last time I really did in three should have overdid it was a we had hurricane Harvey. And we had a tornado went through our our subdivision. I ran four tanks through that thing and I'm gonna like four hours like it was just non stop drop it and there was all the volunteers, you know our neighborhood was awesome all the volunteers that jumped into I didn't have to lift a finger aside from sling the saw just cut drop chunk they were dragging to the curb. That makes tree work awesome. I mean, when you don't have to move a single branch, but
Tom Wayes :that's not supposed to be.
Wyatt Pemberton :Right? Yeah, if you can do it that way. If you never have to pick up the branches, then Yeah, you can. It's amazing what you can accomplish. Well, so then yeah, ran, you know, four tanks through. I was like, Man, that wasn't bad. That's when I realized it's all the other stuff that that's why I had to eliminate, you know, you got plans for this summer.
Tom Wayes :Obviously, it's evolving as we speak, I think for everybody, you know, I mean, I think what what happens next is there'll be an Resting. You know, I would love to get back to doing a bunch of events and, and whatnot, but I don't know if that's gonna be the course for a lot of people in the immediate future.
Wyatt Pemberton :Well, I was just mean from the tree standpoint, is that your game plan for the summer?
Tom Wayes :I think so, you know, I think I'd like to think that uh, like do some tree work and supplement I try to keep it a nice holding pattern and hope that some normality can come back to the world and move forward.
Wyatt Pemberton :You know, you're living there with your fiance Stacy there in Reno, she's probably gonna be ready for you to get the hell out of the house.
Tom Wayes :We've actually been doing great. She's an amazing woman. I'm really thankful that we've been able to spend as much time together as we have been.
Intro/Outro :Stay tuned. Your talent tank isn't full yet.
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Intro/Outro :Now back to the show.
Wyatt Pemberton :So we've touched on this a little bit but this is the part of the interview that people are gonna you really Want to hear like how did Tom ways get into offroad this dude comes out mountain biking, he's skiing. He's living in the right area right Fordyce Rubicon. You can't not be an outdoor guy and live in that part of the world and not be good
Tom Wayes :no I mean honestly I've lived eight miles Rubicon or 10 miles Rubicon for a really really long time and you know, get to the point to where I can tell you every single rock on the thing, you know, as well as the majority of the rest of this year is I mean, whether it be on a mountain bike or dirt bike, snow machine, rock crawl or whatever, like I've tried to explore as much of the West Coast as I possibly can and I've always made a huge effort to do that. I think being a multi sport athlete enables you to be able to do that year round you know, you're not just limited to when the season's best for that sport. Very
Wyatt Pemberton :I mean, you're intriguing fella. Just do
Tom Wayes :there's so much cool shit though they'd like we'd like such a scratched the surface. That's how I feel right now. I'm like, there's so much shit. They're like I'd love to keep talking about like, That's crazy. Like, that's the hard part for me, you know? That's why I feel so you like burgers? Yeah, I listened to burgers and to me like it was cool because there's so many things that we've done together that I forget about. Like when I call them in game shit about it. I was like, Dude, that was actually really good. I liked it. And he goes, you know, he started you know, he's obviously always humbled to be like, ultra competitive, but like, you know, like, I remember when him and I went up to go ride with Jason at the cabin, and this would have been in 2003. And back then Jason couldn't ride a sled to save his life. He was terrible. Literally, his father in law Steve o bought my ski Doo off the back of my truck after the ride. He was like, that's my second snow machine. How much to leave it here today. Let me get on my checkbook. And like literally like bought my frickin ski Doo that was all punk rock out with like snow cross suspension on it. And he was like, that's not leaving today. And I was like, okay, that's how you want to do this. You know in like the the dirt bike stories with Jason like going from his cabinet. plata and riding up rattlesnake, which is Cisco Grove, that goes up to the committee crossing and Fordyce dropping down committee on the Fordyce during Sierra Trek and then riding up all of the windshields on our dirt bikes all the way to the top where summit Lake used to be where all he was his garden gnome, where we mixed gas for our two strokes, and then rode all the way down the crest all the way to Downey Ville, where we dropped into Downey Ville, went down, got hammered drunk on course lightened pizza and then rode up all of the downhill downhill mountain bike rides all the way to the top of Packer saddle in the car boots road down the other side. And all the way back to a little tricky summit. I'm talking like 110 mile, all dirt to stroke red with like Jason shear laying fetal position after crapping his pants like on Fordyce. Like that's what we live for. Just like cradling each other to where you're just like sitting there like resource racks with your fingers like this. And then like burger on Rubicon like burger on Rubicon and like helping him to disable sports like taking kids into the fucking or whoever they were like taking people into Disabled Sports and all of it all over the years I mean like that's the like I listen to it and then like I think about like the ski movies that he was helping me get into different spots we drove at Twin Falls Idaho from here nonstop and back to buy a snowmobile to replace my ski do that I sold Jason's father in law. There's so much of it squat itself and fuck everything tween
Wyatt Pemberton :so many great memories. And yeah, you're right, great people, and you're making new and new and better and greater memories by the moment. That's what's cool. Yeah. So growing up, you guys had farm trucks, three wheelers, tractors. You get into f J's and you've been fJ guy ever since. Have you ever had
Tom Wayes :a Jeep? No jeeps? No, never had a jeep. Never had a Jeep always, uh, always wanted one as a kid, but like a and it just so happened. My sophomore year in college my, my dad helped me get to 79 fj 40 and before that I had a an 83 Mini truck. Before that it was a Honda Civic in the in our 71 Chevy farmtruck you know, tractors and lawn mowers, Rosie is all trying to stick it in fifth and the snapper lawn mower and wheelie, you know?
Wyatt Pemberton :See, I've had so many conversations with guys, because I grew up that so much the same way as you'd like you grew up on a farm, you don't even get the option not to learn how to be a mechanic. You don't it's it just goes with the territory. You're gonna learn how to fix what you broke or you're gonna learn how to fix it, repair whatever do triage, because that's the only mode of transportation. That's how it's gonna
Tom Wayes :be. Yeah, no, I mean, I couldn't imagine you know, I always loved running around in our tractor with the bush hog on and you know, that was awesome. I'd always be drawn in towards the edge of the swamp though trying to get in a little further. You know, it's just
Wyatt Pemberton :Right You have to push. At what point living in Tahoe Did you meet Yoder?
Tom Wayes :I met Yoder on Fordyce. And then I met Yoder on a little sluice on Rubicon. You know, that was kind of the you know back when parts of Rubicon really rowdy and you know just basically you know, wanted to run my cars best I could and Tahoe back then and you know that was the evolution of Toyota axles and putting 60s in it and taking this front 60 out of a saw truck. That was one of the saw trucks and 60 or 70 I think it was out of a Dodge that was another truck at the yard and next thing you know had won tons and didn't that berfield anymore and you know, but it goes full circle and oh five I ended up getting another fJ. 40 so that's been been a nice thing to have constant You know, I've always loved being a Toyota nerd with with the best of them.
Wyatt Pemberton :What do you drive today? What's your daily driver?
Tom Wayes :The 2011 Raptor, or Duramax dually or my land cruiser, which is parked right next to hold the wheel pan. That's where I
Wyatt Pemberton :was. I knew you had to have a toilet in there
Tom Wayes :that there's no way that 40 is nice that 40 is nice. I like that. 40 a thing so honey. So yeah, I mean, I knew you had to have a relationship with Yoder that part of the world Yoda was the like that dude's hardcore dude. He's the guy that just convinced me that taking my rock crawler and desert racing was a good idea. He was the guy. He was like, you need to come and do vora. And my first desert race was the Hawthorne 250 and that was my first ever race I ever did and my car handled horribly. I mean the thing was terrible with two o shocks on and blown out coil overs and but that was my first race even playing and I did that and the guaranteed 300 Yoder was pushing the limits of a foil drive. Had cameras happen yet? When uh, when he first started really endurance race in his car. Maybe Maybe it happened one years right as it started. Yeah, it was right as it started because I mean Kevin back then. I mean he was he was racing up here. I mean, I remember going to Prairie City in one of the early early races and Randy Avery, who was like one of the other pro truck guys that raced against Melo. He was fast. It was like super fast on the Prairie City track. And that was like the first time you're like, oh, wow, you know what I mean? And, you know, back then, like, there wasn't a lot of standouts and four wheel drive, and, you know, people are still, you know, class one, and that was in oh seven when I met john Hara and his son mark and went down with john Heron speed technologies. And that's when, when Berger invited JT along, and that was GTS first as a race he's ever been to. I mean, I got to take JT with me to ball for the phrase first baja trip. I mean, I didn't have any racing experience back then. But I went down there surfing I'm terrible surfer by the way
Wyatt Pemberton :but even a bad day surfing still a better than a good day of eating a lot of other stuff of it all I hate it so but that that oh six speed tech trip you guys chased but you guys did Mexico right
Tom Wayes :well we had fun I mean I think burger his first trip down there's I think it might have been his first trip to the country I mean JT I wish we could have went further it was super frustrating and discouraging for me at that point like to watch that race go down but like I think john you know I appreciate that he got us all together and got us to meet each other at that point you know, because oh those really slow run he spent so much money it just it was mind boggling to me like I felt like I could have went further with a with a with a mini truck and my tool bag from the Rubicon then he could get to Damon Jeffries cars you know,
Wyatt Pemberton :which is I guess a fair a fair assessment but the relationships that came out of that trip that oh six trip for you guys to Baja, you guys are still typing together you still pick up the phone? Any
Tom Wayes :Jason was there that too because he was there at horsepower ranch with that, that bug that barely ran when it showed up down there and like they called that thing together. And I mean, I remember that was like hanging out Jason horsepower ranch and now is
Wyatt Pemberton :that the bug that uh it was the magazine bug that like the Chris Corbett was involved with Chris Corbett was a co driver in it at one point and it was like Chris's last desert races something happened. He's like, I'm done. I'm never gonna get back in no steering. There's something good. It's funny what that one event you know, there's these different events that have happened and all of our history has kind of brought us together. But JT was running speed tech race Ops, not even two years later.
Tom Wayes :Yeah, he was the crew chief and they did a great job with it. And it's interesting because there's a lot of influence that came through Reno with a bunch of the younger guys that all got to mentor under a bunch of great great people that would have never been able to do that if it wasn't for Hara bringing those guys in. So they're Like multiple engine builders that john, you know, consumed that were just amazing mentors. I mean, like the guys that got to do sheetmetal work under under the mentors that mean they built so many pro lights and there's so many racecars got built. I mean, that's the reality of it. You know what I mean? And, you know, everything from Pro lights to 61 hunters and everything in between. I mean, there was a tremendous amount of racecars that a bunch of people got to put their hands on and I think that's neat for any community, especially with the heritage of this place, like rod Hall, like, Rod Hall got me a winch sponsorship. The first time I met him, you know, like classic stuff, you know, it comes up he's like, what do you do for recovery? I was like, I try to avoid as much as possible.
Wyatt Pemberton :And you've been with Warren for how many years now?
Tom Wayes :Well, that was actually with mile marker. There was like a couple years but he was a mile marker guy actually was. Yeah, but I'm actually a worn guy now and I'm proud of that. Those guys have been treating me really well and they have great products and super stoked to have an 8074 on my car and The rope that they supply is the best rope there is. So it's really all the best parts. They do a great job, treat everybody really well. And before we get too far into the racecar, you've been BFG your entire career.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah, it's it's like you won the lottery.
Tom Wayes :I think it was 2000. And I think it was 2010. Basically, I met Victor at off road Expo, and Jason introduced me to him and he was like, Hey, this is my friend Tom. He's in war Warner Miller movies, you should talk to him. And I started talking to Victor and he's like, yeah, I'll get you tires. I was like,
Wyatt Pemberton :Okay. agnostic, Victor Agon? Yeah. Oh, man. That was a blast in the past. Is he rounded up Motorsports anymore?
Tom Wayes :I don't know what they're doing right now. But, uh, you know, I never forget that. You know? Yeah, right. I remember the first time I got whiners, I can tell you the first time I ran liners and how long that's been, you know, I've only ever ran tire balls once and you know, that was the year with the single seater for the first time when I had to do less 30 miles on the rim but uh you know that it BMG been a huge part of my program for a really long time and they're amazing company and I feel real fortunate to be part of the program.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah, they put out a very good product very good product at the top of the tire game. There's a lot of guys putting out some really good stuff though. That's yeah I'm hedging my bets like that. Yeah,
Tom Wayes :no, it's true. There's a lot of people making good tires these days and
Wyatt Pemberton :while they're driving each other in competition like you feel safe Oh yeah. It the winning is tiring bog up well, there wasn't competition for a lot of years well, now there is and they have bettered their game their tires have gotten better. And by that the trickle down to the consumer has gotten better. Same with Nitro same with your sing with Well,
Tom Wayes :let's take it one step further. And a lot of people don't realize this. The tires are so good now that your wheels need to keep up and where people are getting to the point to where the wheels weren't getting the tires weren't getting flattened the wheels were getting flats. You know, it's twofold you make a great tire, the wheels have to go along with it and that goes on along into the main the US stuff like having good quality us wheels that are forged in real wheels, and not garbage coming over from China is a huge part of a race program. Now anybody that thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.
Wyatt Pemberton :No, there was definitely a window there a couple years where everybody you broke a wheel every race, I mean, or multiples or three or four and the tire would mostly be fine but you would break the wheel Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And they did most of the time they did say China on the inside and you'd had manufacturers that they sold the Chinese wheels and they sold the American made we'll so you had to make sure you ordered the part number that was the American one because it was so many mil thicker and different. You know, it didn't used to be a Pepsi can it actually used to be in a mine somewhere? I don't know what the what the genesis of each each chunk of aluminum was, but they're totally different qualities. All right, man. So we kind of got off topic, a little Bit and now was steered back to back to ultra for and you know, you ran that that trip fab car for many, many years. I think it was the first. Well, no, not the first, it was the last probably converted trail car still running in the 4400 main, I think we had split classes. I think you were still racing that car after the class split, like EMC had existed, and you were still running in 4400. Right? Or maybe it's blurry right in there. But somewhere in there, you know, you need a different car, you're gonna get competitive. And there's a discussion with Jason shear and tribe and you and you end up with that single seat, little car. Yes, sir. How'd that happen?
Tom Wayes :So long story.
Wyatt Pemberton :It's got to be a good one. I mean, because once you put yourself in that car, you're driving style and how you drove and where you were competitively wise, was all of a sudden highlighted.
Tom Wayes :I felt fortunate to be able to get that thing I think it was the fall 14 right. And basically immediately went to the hammers and needed to make that thing needed to understand it right. And the thing about that car is it has more offset to the front diff and more belly clearance and when people realize, so it's actually an exceptional Rock Crawler and I think everybody at that point in time at the misconceptions of Dave Cole's original Kirby car in how flat bottom that was and how bad it wasn't the rocks literally that little car was so fast and the rocks and it was the I call it the bread level theory on hammers. You'll make a wide car because it's always faster drive between the rocks and over so you know an 8384 outside a tire car. That's super nimble is in my opinion, the fastest cart the hammers so that your with my involvement with BMG I ended up like I had about 1500 miles testing on the KR two before it was even released. I think many other teams have I had a lot of feedback on a couple different constructions on that tire and I think I put 1500 miles on the car before showing up to qualify. Okay, ah, I had a lot to prove to myself and a lot to prove to everybody, you know, a new was my first year, you know, racing by myself, you know, that was gonna be a big change. You know, I was I was really excited for
Wyatt Pemberton :mentally that's usually a pretty hard step. You know, a guy going into a single seater. It's a it's a mental game. You try to stay on top of the, I guess. Yeah, just all of it right. But for you the transition probably wasn't as hard because you're used to, you know, the skin solo, the being on a bike solo being on a snow machine solo. You kind of had that going. You're good good at reading terrain. You just needed to adapt to reading the GPS.
Tom Wayes :Yeah, for sure. So kind of a good story behind that was I was just about to leave the starting line and That thing had an A or B in the front, you know gotta remember to turn the power tank bottle on so we're trying to remember that like three cars for leaving the starting line. And john marking sticks his head in the window and he goes, that GPS is way too low. What are you thinking? And I'm like, Great
Wyatt Pemberton :right now can't do anything about it.
Tom Wayes :So literally, like every time I put in reverse my knuckles hit the buttons on the Laureus and change the screen and changed everything. So this is my first time using this seven HD, which I'd never had because I had like a ball 540 from like back in frickin when they were just the beginning. And I literally like I was lost. And you know what, going 30 miles an hour faster everywhere than I'd ever gone before. I'm finally going race pace and that thing, you know, because at that point, like the steering is just as good as the suspension. I mean, that's really the reality of your first car. You're like holy mackerel, this thing steers. So like driving a forklift. It goes where you want it to go. Yeah. So Yeah, I want to talk about qualifying or what do you Where do you want to go here?
Wyatt Pemberton :Oh, man, because you and I've talked about this, you know, strategy. Here's what Tom ways. And Wyatt Pemberton like to talk about when we talk in the past in the past when you look back, and if you were to record our previous conversations from the last five years, when we talk it tends to be a strat. Yeah, was this 2015 when you rolled in qualifying
Tom Wayes :I don't know what year that was. But I started like 98 or six or something like that. Next to Tony, you know,
Wyatt Pemberton :you weren't you weren't the end. You were at the end. 30 seats. Yeah. That was the point people behind you were the ones closing the gate to the cattle and yeah,
Tom Wayes :it was like Vegas Reno that one year. So
Wyatt Pemberton :you leave the start line and everyone's like that year the discussion pre race you know, Tom waste your name is always in the the contention. You're always in the podium hot. You're part of that conversation. You just don't have the wins. And I want to see you there. There's a lot of people
Tom Wayes :that want hammers, man, I've always I've always had Time put it together there, but you know what? It's gonna happen one of these days and it's gonna, it's gonna be, it's gonna be great. And then I'm going to appreciate it that much more. You know, I know the speeds there. I gotta get a good, good, good day. I gotta have a good day. But the thing is, everybody has good days these days. So you gotta have a great day.
Wyatt Pemberton :You gotta have a great day. And again, there's also there's hundreds of people that have attempted that race and there's only been six winners.
Tom Wayes :You know what like it like yeah, that year that year was tough. That year was tough because there was so many things going against this leading into it that just, they were all super tough and it just one thing after another one thing after another and then you know, to get to like he was the bottom of Aftershock and made a left by accident instead of right and went up the mine road instead of going up after shock or whatever it was. And at that point I had passed Nick because he was stuck in that first v Nacho camera which trail it was, was I got by Nick and then I was by myself mean like I was by myself came through, went up over Fisher and came down jack g Mooney ham stone, they're going you're in a bunch of shit. And I'm like, What are you talking about gene and he goes, you're gonna you're gonna get d queued. Missing trail. I was like, What are you talking about? And I was like, we're gonna go with the Shannon Campbell theory on things here. We'll deal with this the finish line. So then I got two chocolate thunder and big rich was standing there waving a red flag at me. So then he tells me I'm in a bunch of problems. So at that point, like David called on the crew chief and talked to him on the radio and said they're going to deal with at the finish line instead of whatever and whatnot. And then I decided I wanted to burn into the ground and see how hard I could push the tempo and make the time up. But I think by the time I got the backdoor, I was hour and 15 minutes leading the race.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah, it was pretty amazing. It was leading into the green flag there. The conversation was that this is actually a silver lining, you have the ability. The problem is, if you start that far in the back of Marcos Gomez had to fight it this year is if you're Starting from the back you have a huge pro in front of you every car you passes elapsed time you gain the problem is you still have your racing at a wreck it's gonna be like a wreck on a wreck is there ends up being trialed plugs in front of you, if there ends up being a large profit jam, you could give it all up. But if you're racing to beat that and you can actually get through that door before it closes on you
Tom Wayes :but here this though why it like when you're racing by yourself and you're starting the back it's just like starting like the year qualified forth. Those were Paul and I side by side Jason and then burger and Miller in the front and you know, burger and Jason and I are definitely bench racing each other and giving each other a hard time and I was like, Well, I'm just gonna sit here and let burger navigate for me. I don't even need to push. You know, and you got to make sure he does he does it correctly. But you know, just sat there and follow those guys. So I felt like it was time to pass and then I wanted to make my move but like When you start 96 I mean, Kirby came back to me and he goes, You know what, they don't even worry about it. You're just gonna be passing slow people, you'll be fine. And I was like, You know what? It was an opportunity to not have to navigate when you're in a single seater and in the back, the lines burned in. Oh, yeah. Like you're healing GPS GPS
Wyatt Pemberton :can follow run and chase dust. And so there is a lot of in car videos from other people not from you. Have you blown them by them? Like, like, like, what was that orange car? That was ways they're going 40 you're going 85
Tom Wayes :dad this year coming off the power line in the back there and I was freaking moving. And like they went in the middle of the two, three lane and
Wyatt Pemberton :so what took you out that year? That year, you which year the year were you started all the way in the back. You had men you were leading the field by an hour 15 on corrected
Tom Wayes :I think that 15 quote that's from the first year with the The front tire flattened, no spare
Wyatt Pemberton :was that well, and then, and then one year you blow up a third member was that like 61
Tom Wayes :year old on a small throw all the things I remember. So the one year I blew up the third coming up, outer limits pass, returning from Emerson and then did the whole 247 divide in front only, and then the car wouldn't go anymore up the same climbs. So I did the same climbs in reverse, and then came back to Pitt and actually had a little bit of help from Brandon Thompson. And then I told him a little bit because he couldn't get through a section got back to Maine and my guys changed. Third members slip yoke, the axle shafts and the unit bearings and a brake line and a caliper in the front. And then I got back to eighth place by sledgehammer and then was right jammed up with Waylon when he was working on his drive line and then ended up blowing the rear drive line out of it and didn't Have a spare and then ended up going down to the plaque line and spotter strap yanking people through that section because I was so annoyed but I wanted to let out some energy and then the 96th year oh yeah so anyway what happened then so I broke that drive line hiked out got another drive one finally after dark and one of the finish and then was coming back around Outer Limits pass and broke the crank and my LS seven and then that was it. And that was like just before the finish. Just like the other side. I will miss pass between there and the island on the MDR and then the year I rolled in qualifying, and I got 80 guys in the first 60 miles and that's the year that GoPro malfunctioned. We got 80 guys in the first lap in the desert and then 16 on lap two. And then I was in physical force I think it was when I caught up to Lauren and fair Bonnie senior in It was jack Norris or I think it was jack Dorsey. We came down wrecking ball together. When the three of us were coming down on Jim Marrs in video that he's commentating
Wyatt Pemberton :and that GoPro died, those GoPros died. They got nothing. They recorded nothing. Yeah, that's that's a kick in the dick right there. Yeah. Yeah.
Tom Wayes :There we are. What made you decide to build a new car when that little single seater was doing so good? Because like Mike Bo still has that car now. He's very competitive in it. Yeah. Still, it's still a very competitive car. You built a two seater? You've been racing that? Did you miss a year racing? While you're building it? I did. I need to take a year off to finish and I was optimistic hopefully that I could, you know, maybe run two cars and have a short course car and a desert car but you know, the reality of how much work all of it is how much money it is, and how much time it is every time you go race and like it was more than I could bite off and, and again, that car finished. You know, that that summer DFG did it came through Lunch on the Rubicon and we got to give a bunch of rides ride alongs with a bunch of us and it was just an absolute treat to get people rides. And it really kind of motivated me to to finish and build that two seater and then icon was a huge pivotal part of that and you know basically, you know want to have a two seater and you know, to be able to like have my teammate Jeremy McGrath and go out to his ranch and, you know, do some events with Icahn out there and give rides I mean, like the other summer I was able to play in Axel Hodges playground to X Games freestyle dirt bike area, in a dirt natural halfpipe with the racecar. I mean, like hands down like I got to go up an 18 foot dirt halfpipe and it was the coolest thing you've ever got to do in a car.
Wyatt Pemberton :I mean, in some of the guys that you're doing this with such heroes. I mean, they're just pioneers, innovators, and they just push the limits. And that's, that's the people that you've surrounded yourself with. I always find that uh, you know, I think I subscribe to that theory and surround yourself by people that will challenge you surround yourself by winners, and you will elevate your own game and yeah, I mean you continue to do it.
Intro/Outro :Stay tuned. Your talent tank is in full yet.
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Intro/Outro :Now back to the show.
Wyatt Pemberton :The new car was this its first kayo Ah,
Tom Wayes :yeah, last year last year was the debut race for it and we were we were down right to the wire finishing it up. Rob McKinney and I he co drove with me in my first k way back when my car was white and Robin I have always done great together and we raced Vegas, Reno together. One year, Greg house he did the first half and then Rob jumped in for the last half. And that was the year. That was a good story. But anyway, not to digress. Yeah. So last year, I got fixed with it. And that was like a two week old car. We had like 600 miles. We started one.
Wyatt Pemberton :In this year you were a man on a mission. And
Tom Wayes :yeah, we screwed up a little bit and I got to take ownership. I'll just tell you exactly what happened. So we did all our pre run and I felt really good. The car is in exceptional shape. You know, James helped with building some parts and red line got me a new motor while my other motor was with James and
Wyatt Pemberton :and that's James Schofield, right?
Tom Wayes :Yes, sir. Yeah, cars running great. You know, Mike Porter from Red Lion has done a tremendous amount to help me out. And his his guy Cham. They're just amazing people. You know, I mean, those guys always come through When I need help. My car was running really, really well. And I was excited for it. We did all our pre running which is kind of whatever He's doing these days is running in your car and then turn it down for prep and then figuring out when you're gonna put it back together so you can go run the qualifier and power hours tough and you know what in the last couple years I got glasses, my visions not bad by any means but like I've always been fortunate with really good vision so for me like being really crisp and sharp has always been like what I'm used to so to be a little fuzzy and especially at sunset going into the sun is tough for me and I drove as hard as I could this year without wanting to break it and I don't want to drive so hard that I rip a quarter off and have to deal with that so I had a pretty decent run I think I ended up a 21st or something like that qualifying and you know what was as dark as it was I felt good with it you know but then just to keep yourself honest and humble like Jason came you know the next guy after me and smoke me so in got poll or second to polling So Lauren, but you know, like, I'm happy with that, like that's a nice, respectable mature place to start the race. It's not 96 where you're back in the in the back and it's not on the front where you're just trying to figure out your pace. But we screwed up. We put the axles in backwards in the front hall admitted. And with the Detroit in the front, the gear works locker. That thing basically, the amount of stub chef engagement with the spider tracks enters, and they have three wheel drive, not four wheel drive. So literally, we're warming it up on the stands, and I got over to jump in the car and the guys are like, Hey, man, what's wrong with this thing? And I'm like, Oh, that's not good. So literally, they ran over and told Dave, we ran back over to the pits. And one of the guys from tribe came over I remember which I super appreciate. You know, I think cloris asked those guys if they would help and you know, it is built for community. We all jumped in and tore that front end apart and put it back together correctly ended up switching the desk. Jeremy wit came over and was helping and you know we tore that thing back together. I jumped in the car and tried to remain calm as possible and drive back over to the start. And I'm not really sure where exactly I started, but I don't think I lost tremendous spots. I think they put me in about 30th maybe. And I was supposed to start next to Bailey, Bailey Campbell, you know, we take off off the start and went on the hunt.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah, I remember what you know, hearing them talk about as you they pulled you out of line, or you pulled yourself out of line as like, something's wrong way something's wrong the ways and then there was the conversation, then it was like the, you know, they're not even letting our TV set up at all. It's just slapping, you know, whatever they were doing. It was like this is going and then it was back in ways off. And there you go. And so I was so proud of so proud of my guys. I mean, everybody, you know, I felt bad and I got to take ownership for that mistake. You know, I mean, because it's not anybody's fault, but my own, you know, and that's a tough one. You know what I mean? Like you make a mistake like that you're human. You know what I mean? And I wish it was something cooler than that, but it's not what they look like. The thing is, they look identical Except for one slightly I mean it's a slightly longer or one slightly shorter it's not by much so yeah if you don't know when they aren't you physically marked with like oh crap I need to make sure and then it's like it's measured wait which side gets the long side which I guess the short side right
Tom Wayes :hey especially when you're when you're not around these cars all the time and it's not like you know you're like the short sides the driver side but the motors and backwards and the transmissions in backwards and the Alice's and backwards and you know everything's six ways to Sunday trying to remember how a low pinion runs upside down sitting in backwards and you know trying to remember all this and you know, I we took off and you know, I made a decision last minute to have Rob not ride with me just because I didn't really realize how much it was hurting him last year. And it's like a huge worry for me hurt and my co driver like I have a hard time with it. That was part of the reason to race and the single seater is just not feeling responsible for anybody else and not feeling like I was worried about hurting anyone And, you know, last minute I decided I was like, you know, I talked about it with Rob and his wife and, you know, I didn't realize how long it hurt him after last. I mean, he was hurt, he was hurting for a while his knees hurt for months. And that's not cool. And I didn't realize that So literally, like he's too proud to tell me, you know, basically like I made a decision and I was like, Alright, I'm gonna bring another friend of mine that I super trust and I felt like we were making good pace and we were passing a bunch of people and you know, we made a good run to be reviewed. So I always do okay, driving in the dust. So, got Cooper buttes and kept working back towards a back to pit one and we got back to pit one. And when we came through pit one, we came through the second ring gate and come out that one there through the second ring gate or the first ring gate and go on the move and I think I got like, I don't know 10 people maybe between there and the second ring gate and when I was coming up on the second ring gate was come around that last long right handed I think I was doing about 108 or 109 or something like that. It's That whip section that's not big in there but the inside was pretty good but the dust in the wind shifted a little bit so it was right in her face. So it went from like a nice side move where you could see a lot to nothing. I caught up to Bailey and right when I caught her, I got her light and I could get to the point where I could see the color of her panels. So I felt like I was right in the pocket honor. And
Wyatt Pemberton :as you check up right up, just just right in there is chopped right in there.
Tom Wayes :And then and then I gathered up that gate and
Wyatt Pemberton :just yeah, just fully caught it,
Tom Wayes :gathered that gate up and went into a flat spin at 60 and miraculously landed on the back right tire on the throttle and managed not to roll and just had a bunch of shock float on my visor and jumped out in the upper a arm was tore mostly off. decided at that point, there was no way we could proceed to drive over to resolution and backdoor and drive down at the way the course is intended because I couldn't get myself to go drive off back door. They're forwards, there's no way I would have folded the front of the car under and become part of the obstacle, everybody would driven off of me off the drop off and I just couldn't get myself to do it. And my brain works so fast like I thought about it. And I was like the only way I could get down resolution and backdoors that drive down it backwards. But then when I get to the backdoor drop off, I'd have to drive off it backwards. But because of the spare sticking out, I would land on the spare and then I would end up having to flop it on its passenger door to drive out of it on its side to get off. And I just I couldn't get myself to do it. You're literally doing future Tetris in your head and you're like, none of us get there. None of it. None of it's good. So I drove across the infield and went right to my pit the way he told us we couldn't the drivers meeting and fix my car, and then drove back out on course and came back to the start finished and they told me, I had to stop because I was needed to stop.
Wyatt Pemberton :You were 2009 Shannon Campbell.
Tom Wayes :I asked if I could keep going and work. To the finish line and they said no.
Wyatt Pemberton :And there you go.
Tom Wayes :I couldn't affect anybody else's race at that point. And you know,
Wyatt Pemberton :which corner Did you tear off driver, a passenger, driver side, man, tear that post on the ground, bending over brake,
Tom Wayes :six inch posts filled concrete ripped off and then the 12 inch post with concrete didn't move and the half inch plate that was the pivot that held the open gate facing towards me. I hit that right next to the shock tower it hit the upper right arm and that and blew the half inch pivot off of the 12 inch post. The front tire hit that post and then that wicked into the Frisbee, flat spin.
Wyatt Pemberton :Well, luckily your car weighs as much as it does and you had the momentum on your side because if you barely been going slower, it probably would have been worse. I think you know what, it's a it's a good safe car and you know what a happy it went the way it did. So you're already fully repaired. You've had plenty of idle time, idle hands. The devil's work you have got the car fully back together fully prepped. It's race ready right now, right?
Tom Wayes :Um, the car I'd say actually was in really good shape, which was surprising minus that lake on the upper upper control arm so really like an upper control arm and it's not in too bad shape to be honest with you. Which has been actually really nice. Right? Yes. Usually it's just completely dragged out and you're just like, staring at it going really?
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah, not. I mean, you hadn't hit any hard rock trails. It only really had the open on that front. Yeah, so it's still good. Exactly. So yeah, your race ready. So it's ready to go on a trailer and go race somewhere, right? You never know. You never know. That's right. We're ready to go get back racing. Like everybody is. Oh my god. Yes. What's the plan for the rest of the year for you? You're gonna you're trying to do some solid work. Are you gonna try to make nationals?
Tom Wayes :Ah, no. No nationals. I'm not gonna go to Oklahoma. After swamp buggy racing with the rattlesnakes back there I'm good. Yeah, fair enough, but there is when he would it's been dry it's been dry since then. And I and I do live really I do like that place crossbar is a cool place. And you know what I just it's just too much it's just too much it's too much effort late in the fall for me to race there if I was going to race you know, I think that's the hardest part now there's so many cool events to do. Picking what events to do that makes sense for you and your sponsors is the hardest part. So does it make more sense to try to go race with someone else during the thousand run your own effort for the thousand does it make the most effort to go race nationals does it make the most effort to go to fall crane and you know, like, there's so many cool things that you can do like the amount of hours it takes me to get ready to go back to hammers. That's a tough one. takes me a lot of time.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah, I mean, the biggest race of the year, we run an idea past you. Do you think this idea would hold water we built Ultra fours to be kind of catch all the do all we brag that they can crawl rocks they can you could rock crawl with him. You can he'll climb with them you can do baja with him. He doesn't race with him. What would you say to a a road course that also hit desert. So you go out and do a 30 mile hundred mile whatever desert but you also come back through a paved road course say like a Sonoma tight road course maybe even has a little NASCAR high bank. I think Jason would be our to be right. Agree.
Tom Wayes :Be in the bullet. Let me know you wanted to do the Bonneville stuff with his car to it. Did he ever tell you that? No. I know. No. Yeah, we should have he has he has a thing where he wanted to see how fast he could go in his car. Bonneville Salt Flats
Wyatt Pemberton :he doesn't need to go to Bonneville for that he could go
Tom Wayes :over to Emerson and do it too. I'm just saying like, I mean, Bill berry remember when he had that contraption that he was going to put On the back of the beast and when he wanted to go top speed Remember that?
Wyatt Pemberton :No not at all.
Tom Wayes :Do you ever saw that that whole tail section he built for the back of his car for a fairing?
Wyatt Pemberton :Oh yeah because I mean an ultra for cars already it's a barn door with I mean a 40 inch tire a 40 inch tire the the drag Qf QF have a 40 inch tire is
Tom Wayes :huge but at least we don't have a big body like a trophy truck.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah, they're they're also bad you know they live plus you
Tom Wayes :Yeah, you just need more motor. That's the story to everything.
Wyatt Pemberton :Always. Well, no, no, no, there does. There does come a time and I've done it at Bonneville where I have plenty of motor but my drag coefficient is so high that effectively I'm doing a burnout at 275 miles an hour. Like you you're pushing you effectively like pushed against a wall you and it's a wall of air that you just pulled up against to like, you know, you see like, like
Tom Wayes :134 miles an hour. Yeah, that was where it stop it made it I mean, it is
Wyatt Pemberton :indeed a buffet a little you could feel it kind of dance around 100%
Tom Wayes :Yeah, blow the tires off at 134. And it was like, that was how fast that car went on them or something. Like it would not go any faster.
Wyatt Pemberton :That's it. Yeah. No, you reach that you reach the drag coefficient for that car. Yeah. Oh, man. So future K, which 2021 you dropped in some ball high in there. And Yep, you've been to baja a lot. You've raced down there a lot. I think not a lot not a lot a little bit. I'll give it a little bit for ultra for guys. Not sure. Well, yeah, I mean, it's certainly fun comparing you to you know, Metatron or, or any of those. Right so you have the champions. Those guys have been down there you know, they almost lived down there. You know, half the year. Yeah, yeah, the McMillan family. But for ultra for guys. You've been down there a lot compared to ultra for guys. aspirations, the race behind your car.
Tom Wayes :I would love to race bond. My car is just for me like I know how much time it takes to do it. And it's So hard to wrap my head around wanting to go down there and race it and then being able to have my car prepped and not be compromising any of my k which effort because k which being the most important, obviously, I'd love to go race Casey curry and give him a run for the championship in score. I would love to do that. I'd love to race Dave, you know, when he's racing, you know, obviously people have asked me over the years if I want to help out their programs and, and race but you know, it's a tough one. It's a tough one because you're taking a lot of time away from your own program, especially when you're coming up into the biggest race of the year in the fall. And as we all know, if your car's not ready, coming into the holidays, like you're in a bad way, you know, and like if your car's not ready to roll by Thanksgiving, you're in a bad way, you know, and that's where, you know, you let your guard down, and there's going to be another guy like Randy who's going to keep going to the hammers and running this junk and he's going to smoker so So if you want to beat people, you got to bring your frickin a game. And if you're too distracted, you're not going to do
Wyatt Pemberton :it. fair assessment. Raptors. Love them. We touched on you got yours? How many miles? What is your goal on miles this year for that thing?
Tom Wayes :Um, shoot. I don't know, I got the 94,000 I think I have 130 on it now. Um, since June
Wyatt Pemberton :have you put a one of those, like a like a James borrowed 10 on it yet or anything? Uh, what like all those tents like one was rooftop tents like an overland intent. No. I know. I keep thinking I want to put that on my prerunner like over the bed, you know, still below the roofline. So no,
Tom Wayes :a lot of people like that setup and that's a good setup for sure. I just for me, like, you'll laugh like, I have my dry bag that I normally would take the Rubicon like normally like just clipped in the back of my bed cage. And it's like a bivy sack, my sleeping bag, a pillow and like I When I originally started going to Baja, it was with a f 250. And then an F 350 at night at night for before that 91 Ford with a TTB in it with cab overs you know what I mean? And that's what we always would take down there. And I drove a cab over to Alaska and you know jumping co pays with your pickup in Mexico to the point where you're blowing the chains off and then like you're in La Paz trying to figure out how to or Laredo or wherever Home Depot buying lumber and like rebuilding the bottom of your cab over so it doesn't fall off your pickup like to me like I love the light and fast now. And like I to me the Raptor like it's been such an incredible tool, you know, like to be able to leave Reno and know how long it takes me exactly to get to San Felipe Bay. I can go from San Felipe Bay Chevron to Reno and tell exactly how many gallons it is how many hours it is and You know boom boom boom, there you go and then you know all the Northern Nevada stuff that I've got to explore this year out through the Black Rock desert all the way up to the offered, you know the Sheldon wilderness area in all of soldiers meadow, everything else in between. It's so incredible in northern Nevada, everything all the way down to Death Valley like the whole all that. I mean, incredible. You sell your Raptor. Yeah, there's a guy here and he's not used to NBC in Texas. Triple arrow, co drove for like precis graph and some guys trophy truck guy not he drove in a bunch of trophy trucks but really great guy B start Texas Raptor runs and you know, just like a standard Jeep run, you know, guys go to the dealership, they get there. They get the Raptor and then he goes out and take some, you know, offers them a property with a track and they get to go put their Raptor through the paces. It's been huge. It's really been huge. It's really been cool to see people have having their eyes open to what offroad can be, it doesn't have to be mud. It doesn't have to be rock crawling, it can literally be leaf looking at 30 miles an hour. Well, that's that's the cool part. And like, you know, Ben Bower, Charlie's dad has always, you know, been such an influential, influential dirt bike guy, and the tracks that him and his friends have put in, in the Sierras over the last 20 years. And then the stuff that they passed on to Jason and I, and, you know, honestly, my right wrist got pretty tore up and the thing really just, I had a hard time keeping up with what I'd like to still do on a dirt bike. So you know, like Jason and I were joking around that Raptors are the are the new dirt bike for for 40 plus year olds, but uh, you know, it's pretty neat, you know, to be able to explore the Sierras go hotsprings exploring, and just really explore all the best multi use recreation that exists on the west coast where you In the California side of Sierra Nevada is where you're locked in and not able to, to enter into Yosemite and into different areas along the Sierra Nevada crest and to hit the Nevada side and hit you know, the beautiful areas like mount Paterson and Masonic and to go from, you know, Bodhi ghost town, all the way back to Yerington back to Dayton. And, you know, just like God's country, just, I mean, it's just, it's, it's such a beautiful, beautiful part of the world and just the Sierras in general, you know, to be able to explore as much of it in the winter and snow machines and skiing and to be able to piece it together. You know, where you can really see like, the last year like I've, I've tried my best to explore and drive as much of the Pony Express in the immigrant trail as possible and do every lick of it that I could man
Wyatt Pemberton :the last nearly two hours with you have been amazing. Got all the details on the true story about you and the bear and the tomahawk. The background on you skin and how that came to be. I mean, I'm still in awe of that. Did we cover everything you wanted to get off your chest?
Unknown Speaker :I don't know. What are we missing?
Wyatt Pemberton :I'm gonna ask you for a recipe. It's a simple recipe. Choose a baja fog. for everybody. What's the Baja fog?
Tom Wayes :I just take a Corona and you put a patrol silver floater on top of it, fill it up to the top, think it down.
Wyatt Pemberton :Let cerveza flow through the the putana Yeah, that is a good drink.
Tom Wayes :What are you going to start racing and why it let's talk about this because no one's put you on the spot because you've been too busy putting everybody else on the spot. What do you got going on over there? Yeah, Rick money and building you something. What do you got going?
Wyatt Pemberton :You know, so easy, Rick. And you know, we talked with some regularity. Uh, you know, I love that guy with a passion. He is in the throes of a decision to move away from Havasu. They're talking, they're talking about moving to Missouri to the Ozarks.
Tom Wayes :I was gonna say like northern Idaho.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah. Well, I think there's too many Californians there now, I think and that's, you know, that's nothing makes Rick skin crawl worse than a conversation about California. So yeah, they they are looking at maybe some land in southern Missouri, you know, around the Derek west part of the world. Travis breaks part of the world. Springfield, Branson, I just because what you can buy there, you know what you can sell out of a suit formed by you get 2040 acres there in Southeast Missouri and really have a piece of, you know, slice of heaven there. So that's kind of what they're looking at as far as me and racing, working with a well, he did all the work himself and he just clued me in on it is a hunter Miller. You know, he's the guy that won the UTV race, King of hammers, UTV races, brother Cody finished 15th in the mouths of the guys that
Tom Wayes :ran each over over
Wyatt Pemberton :No, no, it was a guy that had a car and they were throwing rocks. I don't
Tom Wayes :know. No, no, and then it backed up and rolled over one of them. It was that was it. Those guys
Wyatt Pemberton :and not only
Tom Wayes :there was a there was a there was a pair guys are a team I'm sorry that a new TV this year that like we're out of the car and then like rolled it back over and then it ran
Wyatt Pemberton :ran over. Yeah, no, no no no that was a and I'm drawing a blank on his name. I want to say they were on the box. Yeah, they they were he was second. And this is bad. I'm sorry you put me on the spot I didn't get Yeah, but uh, yeah, he broke his foot. He broke his he broke his toes. But yeah, they're not not the guy. This is 100 finished first. His brother didn't finish but he rather than raced in 4400 with his UTV and finished 15th there's some North Texas guys. There's a big race Park, just south of Dallas Fort Worth area in a town called Midlothian called Tex Plex. They actually have a really really nice like Raptor style track that you could take your pre runners out on. I've been invited no less than five times every single time it has rained. So we're like like in by rain. I mean like the day before two days. Yeah. like inches of rain. It's like, well, we don't even I'm not even worried about putting it on the trailer. I'm driving up there. It's we're not even planning to go because it's rain. So, yeah, there's a UTV series. Well there's a, you know, a series here in Texas that actually they're opening up a class for 12 and up 12 year olds and up thousands utvs naturally aspirated. And so I have this 12 year old son he is a select baseball player. He lives breathes sleeps baseball. That is my hope for my future and racing is that give them a little taste. Yeah, that I can get him into 1000 in a UTV and I can get in the right seat and live vicariously through him. That'd be cool. That's That's right, that you brought up the the vision thing and qualifying and that's ultimately what made me shelve it and Hang Hang up the helmet A few years ago, and as it turned out, I ended up finding out on Monday diabetic and the my vision issues were part of that. And that was that was the deal. I was had lost the edge on reading the tops of whoops at 130 at the minute. Yeah. And when I went back and we saw a section of video on like world Vex games, and it was in car from Rob Mack going down a powerline road at the mint. And he was running like 105 208 good clip. Yeah, miles, you know, the voice of hammer town over there. miles house kiss tonight. We were running 134 on that section. And I didn't finish that race. But what I can tell you is you're gonna whoops in there. Yeah, we were. We were We were rolling. And the thing was the car The car felt the car felt great. It never felt better. I mean, I wasn't worried about it. But then when you see when somebody like Rob Mac is rolling that I started thinking about really reflecting on my vision and it came down to my vision and goals, man I am clearly Miss reading something a little bit. And like you said, I don't want to kill somebody, I don't want to kill or hurt or injure my co driver. And I knew I was having vision issues. And here's the thing, some days, I'm 2020 or 2010. And then other days, I can't read a stop sign from sitting at the crosswalk. That's and it's not really my ability to regulate via the drugs. I haven't ever been able to get it to a point where it's fully under control. And if I can get to the point where I was under control and the meds were under control of my blood sugar's and my vision was never a blurry, spiky issue. I'll be back in a car tomorrow. That would be no question in my mind might be a single seater, just so I didn't take somebody with me. But I've not been able to control it. And I'm going on, you know, about five years of really recognizing that I have this. This issue from the diabetes. Oh, the vision issue is my only symptom. I have no other complications. It's just the vision but the vision is enough to Well, here it is. This is like the thing if you can't do it you teach. Well, here it is. This is how the talent tank came to be. You guys are, you know, my people, my community, my friends, my structure, my rock, and I feel like I'm too old to go make new friends. So hang up the racecar and then still stay involved in the best way to get involved is continue to tell the story of the stories of my friends, tell the stories of my acquaintances tell the stories of our sport, tell the stories of our community. What we do for each other, how we do it for each other and why we love it or have fallen in love with it.
Tom Wayes :Yeah, no, you're totally right. Why like the first time I raced Vegas to Reno with my own car like he odor and cheer for my pit crew. They were like, just get to us and We'll sorted out I mean we're literally like last time Racecourse with broken ring and pinion bolts in the rear fix them got to them finally and then worked away A while back to AIDS, you know, like, that's the stuff that you just that's the stuff that you just need in your life, you know, to be able to get if you're not racing go down and help other people out like going down for the thousand last year. Like That was awesome to be able to be there for my friends, you know? And like, that's what's that's what makes it neat. If you can't raise.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah, no, I wish I'd figured this portion of it out like the not always feeling like I had to do it myself. I wish I'd figured that out in my 20s and in my 30s it's taken me
Tom Wayes :what happens then though, I don't think it happens then. Not for me, because I think everybody's so jammed up and wanting to prove that you can be the man or prove that you can do it or be competitive, that you're not mature enough yet to actually like. I mean, that's the thing about guiding in skiing like I don't have to ski the gnarliest stuff anymore. I can take people Go out and take them on just super fun easy runs and like they have an absolute blast. And I'm not all jammed up because I'm not on the gnarliest stuff. Yeah. And that's, that's what makes it great because you're stoked to show other people what's out there
Wyatt Pemberton :and let them challenge themselves. And then you get to, you know, see how they can be successful and see what goes on in their head and their eyes and her facial expressions and see how happy they are. And you're like, man, I did that.
Tom Wayes :You know, meeting people's expectations. Like how cool is
Wyatt Pemberton :right. Well, man, thank you for coming on. Thank you, Tom. Next time though, I will schedule I don't know if I need to schedule it through you or through an agent, but I will set up an interview with your moustache. Just let me know when he's back. And because there's a lot of people that are sitting around waiting for the tomboys mustache interview just what he has to say, you know, alternate ego. palm. Thank you for coming on. I so I so value. Thanks for agreeing. It was a great one. Oh, yeah. All right. We're out. I hope you guys Really liked this episode it was a really fun one to make as usual, I really have to thank my my three partners on this custom splice those guys if you do anything for offroad recovery or even on road recovery or any projects please hit Todd and his crew up at a custom splice comm give him a call machining whoa my gosh branding machine Stan and Brandon those guys over there in Fort Wayne Indiana. They do it all if they can't make it I don't know who can if if you need it made they will do it hit those guys up. They are a big supporter of the talent tank and I value their involvement. And then last but not least, magnitude performance Jason yoed and company they're in Macedonia, Texas and everything that they've done for for the talent tank and getting behind and supporting this. This venture in this project and everything. Give them give them a call for your suspension needs. These guys do magic with springs and then the parent company mass motor sports engines and they have they have engines on lock handbill, lots of horsepower. There you guys Thanks, guys. We'll catch you next week.
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