EP 40 Paul Horschel

A play on the triumph and losses in performance and life.  The Talent Tank podcast will navigate the inner workings of lifestyle, lives, family, teams, careers, programs, and technology in and around the offroad motorsports industry.  What breeds success with your Talent Tank on full, failures when its on empty.  From the journey to the Starting Line to take that Green Flag, on to exploring trials and tribulations on and off the track in pursuit of victorious achievement and the Checkered Flag.

Fall 2020 Season finale of The Talent Tank!   EP 40 won't disappoint with a character who's been referred to as  the most mysterious man in Ultra4 and Offroad racing.  Now that I know his story, I have no problem calling him the most inspirational human in our community.  Current SCORE Baja1000 Unlimited 4wd Champion, driver of the #19 ULTRA4 Racing car, none other than Alaska's number one son, racing out of Park City, Utah today. The inspirational Paul Horschel, @paul_horschel.  From his humble years growing up in frozen Alaska where resourcefulness wasn't just a noun, it was a way of life.  How Paul made his trek to the Lower-48, and ultimately drilling for minerals in the far corners of our planet.  Countries I can't pronounce, but are +4 syllables long with some "Y's" and "Z's" thrown in for good measure.   To today, where Paul and his close knit crew are always in the podium discussion with his unique and bleeding edge designs.  Be ready for him in February, he's got a score to settle at  King of the Hammers. 

Headshot provided by Ryan Del Ponte, The Redline Projects 

After the Checkered Flag-
The Antonov An-124  is a large, strategic airlift, four-engined aircraft that was designed in the 1980s by the Antonov design bureau in the Ukrainian SSR, then part of the Soviet Union (USSR).   The An-124 remains the largest military transport aircraft in current service. 

• Empty weight: 399,037 lb
• Gross weight: 471,789 lb maximum fuel weight
• Max takeoff weight: 886,258 lb
• Maximum landing weight: 727,525 lb
• Fuel capacity: 92,130 US gal
• Take-off run (maximum take-off weight): 9,800 ft
• Landing roll (maximum landing weight): 3,000 ft

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Transcript

Intro/Outro: 0:02

Let's drop the green flag on this episode of the talent tank podcast with your host Wyatt Pemberton bringing you the best, fastest, most knowledgeable personalities and ultra for and off road racing.

Wyatt Pemberton: 0:20

All right, all right. All right. All right. Here we go. Today on the talent tank, we're back at it. I've got you know, the most mysterious man and Ultra4 racing to cap off the this fall season of Ultra4 and the talent tank, man. I've got Paul Horschel on the show today, Paul. How you doing, man?

Paul Horschel: 0:39

I'm doing great. Glad to be here. But tell my story. Yeah, everybody thinks it is. But

Wyatt Pemberton: 0:46

I don't know if it's mysterious. It's just people just don't know. So they fill in the blanks.

Paul Horschel: 0:51

Yeah, I'm just a normal guy. Loves racing family, doing what I love.

Wyatt Pemberton: 0:57

Well, that you do, man and you build some amazing race cars and you're self taught and now I mean, I've really been looking forward to sitting down with you and, and spending a couple hours with you getting kind of your story captured? I guess. I mean, you're the driver of the number 19 4400 car. bright orange says Nitto down the side.

Paul Horschel: 1:17

Yeah.Definitely me. Racing is a whirlwind.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:23

everybody listening, so we hit some some tech snags. You know, Paul and I talked at Nationals in Oklahoma a few weeks ago, I handed him one of the Pelican cases, the interview kits that I hand out. And tonight, you know, well, let's back up a little bit. A few weeks ago, before Baja, we went to record and the power went out at your house and the internet was out at your house. And then we ended up not being able to record it all you went to Mexico and it's crazy. My notes. were like, Hey, you know what's next? You know, here at the very end, you know, hey, what's next for you? You know win baja right as you're getting ready to go to Baja, well you won baja?

Paul Horschel: 2:00

Yeah, that was the goal. So somehow it came out that way but which was amazing to go down there when baja first time but yeah, that was the goal. That was pretty crazy. Getting ready for Baja, just, I mean, it was just nonstop we had I think it was about I don't even know. I mean, I think it was two weeks after Nationals. And then we went to Moab also in between there for four days. Go do some rock crawling, when it was straight, changing motors and changing transmissions prep in the car. You know, just one thing after another. It's been like a whirlwind for the last like six weeks.

Wyatt Pemberton: 2:36

Yeah,

Paul Horschel: 2:37

I got on when a ball is pretty amazing. It's like my childhood dream. And to get that done. It's pretty cool.

Wyatt Pemberton: 2:43

You took your two seater down there, you teamed up with another known known fellow that we all know and love Loren Healy.

Paul Horschel: 2:49

Yeah, Loren. I mean, it was a pretty good match. He's a little bigger than me. So he kind of had to squeeze in the car. But, you know, we kind of have the same sponsors with Nitto. And Loren's been down a ball a few times. It made a lot of sense to go down there with Loren, because he, you know, had a chase truck brought a bunch of spare parts. He drives one of my other cars, so he's kind of used to the car. He wasn't gonna get a lot of seat time and before hopping in and you know,

Wyatt Pemberton: 3:16

right, that he has a single seater that he got off you. But this was you guys were racing a two seater?

Paul Horschel: 3:23

That's correct. He was racing to my two seater or we both racing in the two seater, but which has the same front ifs as the car that Loren is racing currently.

Wyatt Pemberton: 3:33

Characteristics of the same or similar?

Paul Horschel: 3:36

It's similar. Yeah, it's a bigger, it's a little bit bigger car. But you know, not too much. This holds a little more fuel set up for two guys. You definitely wouldn't want to go down to baja and race as a single seater. At least I wouldn't, I'd probably blow every corner down there.

Wyatt Pemberton: 3:52

Just staying in it.

Paul Horschel: 3:54

You know, it's just, it's just a lot of corners. I mean, it's just they say this baja was the toughest baja yet, which was it was just quarter after quarter after quarter. It was just non stop for 1000 miles or 900 miles. I mean, it was

Wyatt Pemberton: 4:11

just a lot of turns just a lot of turns where there are a lot of steering pump failures. Did you know anything like that on guys are rack failures on other cars.

Paul Horschel: 4:19

The other was quite a few I think the Menzies truck broke the rack or the our pump was pretty much toast by the time it got to the finish line. It was whining pretty good. Good. So but it made it I didn't notice anything in the car as we got there, but I could hear a noise coming in the truck about mile 800. And then we got to the finish line it was definitely needs to rebuild.

Wyatt Pemberton: 4:41

And then you guys kind of had some ringers on chase crews you guys had, like Dave Cole and his guys.

Paul Horschel: 4:48

Yeah, Dave Cole has been really awesome. He's always told me whenever you want to go to Baja, just let me know. And I've always kind of kept that in the back of my head and you know, and then this year was COVID and the hole, not racing, it just kind of made sense for me to go race baja this year, most years were too busy to go race. So it made a lot of sense for us to go and Dave wasn't doing anything. So it was like made a lot of sense to just like, okay, let's uh, he just wanted to come help. And, you know, he's won Baja, he knows all about Baja, we, we just don't know anything, we just go down there. We're just a couple guys going down there and hitting the racecourse. But I didn't even do any of that. I didn't eat any tacos. And I didn't drink any beer because my focus is racing and I can't have a bad gut. Oh, I gotta, I gotta sacrifice the tacos.

Wyatt Pemberton: 5:49

I saw a video and man, you're gonna laugh when you hear that I've seen this. But Will Gentile sent me a video months and months and months ago, when we were talking about you. And it's, they're interviewing you for something and, and they said, You have two choices. You're almost to the finish line, you're in first place. And you have to take a dump, you got to take a number two, and it's like, do you number two in your in your fire suit? Or? Or do you hold it? Like, how bad do you hold it in your just No, no was? Do you take it in your fire suit? Or do you get out? You pull off and you know, go hide behind a cactus or something? And you said, you said I'd hold it and they said that's not an option.

Paul Horschel: 6:30

It is an option. And what's crazy as we raced for the first 450 miles, and I didn't take a piss the whole time. I can't pee in a race car. I can drink water. When I get out I pee, like five gallons. I bought my bladder was just killing me. I was like what's wrong with my stomach? I thought it was all the bumps. And then I got out of the car and I was talking to my wife and I was like, Yeah, my stomach and she was like, well, it's probably your bladder. Entirely full.

Wyatt Pemberton: 7:00

And she's fully qualified to give you that that advice too. We'll talk we'll talk about your wife here in a little bit. But she's a doctor.

Paul Horschel: 7:06

Yeah, that's right. So I mean, but it's crazy that I mean, I can I physically can't pee while I'm driving the racecar. So I don't think I no problem. Hold it. Just, you know, the, you somehow just hold it in? I guess it's just you're just so tense, or I'm so tense, driving, you know, corner to corner that just don't have the time to do it.

Wyatt Pemberton: 7:31

Hey, that's fair. I get that I don't have I don't have a problem going in the race car like I can. Which you never know. It's you never know till you're in that situation? Can you go or not go? And I have turns out I have no problem going for wide open throttle in a turn. Just thinking about it for a split second. Like, yeah, I could go the bathroom, and it goes. And then there's those guys can't go at all. Or they have to be stopped. And we just I just talked about this with Pam Hall a few weeks ago about women going to the restroom in the car. And how does that how does that work? And I was five minutes of hilarity. I was laughing most of it.

Paul Horschel: 8:10

Yeah. How does that work?

Wyatt Pemberton: 8:13

They they really only have one option?

Paul Horschel: 8:18

Yeah, well, they better hope they're like me, they can handle it for 450 miles.

Wyatt Pemberton: 8:25

You know, that

Paul Horschel: 8:26

was the longest I've ever done it.

Wyatt Pemberton: 8:28

Yeah, I mean, that's so figure. Well, yes, averaging 50 50 50 miles 50 miles an hour was

Paul Horschel: 8:34

this baja. This baja was really technical. I think it was low 40 or 40. It was Yeah, it was

Wyatt Pemberton: 8:41

so pretty was 11 12 hours without a piss.

Paul Horschel: 8:45

I think it was about 11 hours before we got out 11, 11 and a half or something before we got out.

Wyatt Pemberton: 8:50

That's a marathon man. That's awesome

Paul Horschel: 8:52

in it. I really can't take a piss until like, probably about 30 minutes after I get out. And then I can, you know, I calm down and I can just go pee like normal. But it's just I don't know what it is. But

Wyatt Pemberton: 9:05

isnt a human body. interesting in that regard. I mean, it's I don't know if you think it's physical, or do you think it's mental? Or both?

Paul Horschel: 9:13

I think it's I think it's definitely mental. I think it's just I can't slow my mind down enough. Because there's these speed zones in Baja, where you get on the highway for 10 miles at 37 miles an hour. But everybody would think that Oh, that's perfect time to take a piss. But the problem is you got to go 37 miles an hour. You don't want to go 36 because someone's going to pass you at 37 you know, if you start so you're really focused on that speedometer. So there really wasn't a time in Baja where you weren't focused. It was even in the speed zones. When you're just cruising on the highway. You still mentally focused on doing your job. No, so it's just I think I focus so much on that stuff that I just all the other stuff just gets put on hold

Wyatt Pemberton: 10:00

I think that's fair. Right? So was Mitch Sweat, your your co Dr.

Paul Horschel: 10:05

Mitchell Sweat. Yeah, he drove. Well, we drove the first 450 together. And then Loren drove 250, Lauren and my friend Zig, Miss, and I hop back in for the last 250

Wyatt Pemberton: 10:20

Oh, nice. Nice. So you actually handled a big majority of the race and more. No, he lifted the middle to 50

Paul Horschel: 10:26

ish. Yeah, no. So we hop back in for the last 200. So I drove 650 he drove 250. Yeah. And Dave, Dave was like, are you sure you want to do this? And I go, sure, you want to jump back in the car after like, you know, four or five hour nap. And I'm like, Dude, this is what I'm meant to do. This is what I, you know, I don't even want to get out of the car. But I'll tell you what, after going for 50 hours, looking forward to Laura getting in the truck.

Wyatt Pemberton: 10:57

And it worked out. So what was your lead? What was your split time lead at the 450? When you got out? You know, at this point,

Paul Horschel: 11:03

we didn't pre run the first I think it was about 40 miles of the racecourse. And Shannon actually caught us in a speed zone. So I don't know how all that works. But right at the end of a speed zone you want around us. So we just basically followed in behind them and just cruise that. I mean, Dave was constantly calling me on the radio, just just keep going Don't try to pass something, I'll just just go. So we just cruised and at mile 420 or four kennish he was doing a driver change with Waylon. And at that point, Dave was calling me on the radio telling us where you know, less than a mile back, just don't try and pass them. It's not worth it. So we pulled in there, they were swapping drivers, we went by them. And we actually driver change that for 50 ish. It just made sense. Better sense for appealing. And when we driver change, Dave said we had a four and a half minute gap to do the driver change. They had some feeling issues and some redheads. So at that point, Lauren was in the car. He's like, Can I go can I go? And they were having some issues with some redheads. This is one of the only pits we didn't have a tower at and like a redhead was seized up or something like that on the dump can and they wanted to get enough gas in it. But Shannon, or actually was wailing at that point. He ended up passing us in the driver changed error. Then Lauren pretty much peeled out right after

Wyatt Pemberton: 12:30

him. And then did they had trouble before Loren? You know, Loren actually took over took them,

Paul Horschel: 12:36

right. I think it was I mean, it was pretty, pretty sad. I mean, like within 1515 minutes of Loren driving they they must have hit something and popped a tire as Loren got around them. And we didn't see him anything after that. I think it was they made it probably about 500 miles in the race and I think they broke the rear output of the car. Yeah. You know, our whole game plan was just to drive smart. Don't hit any big holes, you know, drive, just keep a good car.

Wyatt Pemberton: 13:07

I think it paid off. And Loren is great in a desert race. He's very good rocks. He'll tell you. His Achilles heel was rocks Well, I'll have them have solid rocks in the human, though some of the washes have some pretty nasty stuff. And I'm,

Paul Horschel: 13:23

well I didn't pre run Lorens part but I think he had some rough stuff back there because they were complaining about they had all that, you know, down by San Felipe which is pretty rough. He did take out a driveshaft again so I don't think he can go out and go to any race without putting a new driveshaft in. Well, I've

Wyatt Pemberton: 13:43

heard him say something about he had experimented with some carbon fiber stuff, you know, sometime last year and he was shredding those. So I think he's back to non carbon, right?

Paul Horschel: 13:54

Yeah, he's backing on carbon. But this drive shaft he didn't actually he didn't actually hit some with it. It was just a we were planning to grease it every 250 somehow when I went to sleep, but it got passed up on the grease trucks out a little more plunged in a typical desert truck. So we try and keep the driveshaft greased and it was just getting a little hot on Lord so he had a chair pull over and change it.

Wyatt Pemberton: 14:17

Gotcha.

Paul Horschel: 14:18

Another funny story as he ended up getting stuck out in the desert, leaving the pit. I think it was right after the driveshaft change actually. He got he sunk the car right to the axles, right in front of the pit truck, but I don't know if it was his fault or not, but

Wyatt Pemberton: 14:38

he just stopped on soft sand. And then wooded it to pull away?

Paul Horschel: 14:42

Well, the story is, so earlier in the night, they broke a CV boot and sand I'd got up into the upper CV on one side of the front and they ended up cutting the driveshaft or the CV axle out so one of the front drives is out and We're running an RV in the truck. So you just run open. Yeah. So we're running it open, which is essentially two wheel drive at that point. So he pulls in for the drive shaft and Dave tells them, you know, well actually, Dave's telling them where to pull into the drive shaft but it turns out that Dave is pulled in and got stuck. So that's where he told Loren to go. So Dave, Daves Chase truck was , was already stuck. He says, Loren, just pull right over here next to me because that's what we're gonna do the driveshaft chain because I'm not going anywhere else. When Lauren tried to leave, he was on to arrive and just sunk it.

Wyatt Pemberton: 15:39

Oh, terrible. Okay, so I did see. I did see pictures of the chase truck sock. I didn't realize that that was the whole story that you guys did a pit during that too. And I did know that you guys had to cut that that half shaft off you know in between the two CVS in that seemed to be the right way to get right. I mean, a reason pull everything apart when

Paul Horschel: 15:59

Well, our whole game plan but the front end was dependent and goes wrong. Just cut it out. I think Loren must have hit something and shoves rocks up into the CD booth to cut it out. But you know, cut the boot was the inboard one or the outboard? the inboard CV, someone on the cars a full bump. That CV is actually pretty close to the ground and it could rocks and everything could fly up in there. Yep. So they ended up cutting it out. Our plan was just on bolted, which was basically cut the boots and then just stick an impact in there. And you can unbolt it, you know, five minutes, but cutting works to just sling grease everywhere. They get outside the car. Oh, there's grease everywhere. It's a race car.

Wyatt Pemberton: 16:44

Well, man, congratulations. I mean one another. There's a lot of jealous people on this deal that. Yeah, it's your first time in Baja. And you win the 1000 in your class. That's, uh, that says something.

Paul Horschel: 16:57

I that's Yeah, it's pretty amazing. You know, well, actually that car and being met for two for two in Baja, because we won the king of Baja last year. Car two are in a race. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cars, two for two in Mexico. So kind of a bummer. We're going to be cutting it up and using it as a pre runner pretty soon.

Wyatt Pemberton: 17:19

You just build other ones. I know. I know how you work. I know. I know how Mitch works as well. You guys just keep cranking them out. And then and then we'll don't talk about your single seater. But you're been that you've been racing the last, you know, eight weeks or so. We'll talk about it here in a little bit. Because that's a there's a lot going on with that. nationals. We talked at Nationals. You missed, you know, winning that race by 30 seconds.

Paul Horschel: 17:44

Yummy. was a it was in the 20s or 30s? Um, yeah, it was. Well, I lost. I think I lost four races this year in under 30 seconds, which is kind of a bummer. That's that

Wyatt Pemberton: 17:57

was that was the number four.

Paul Horschel: 18:01

Yeah, but I mean, you can't win them all that, you know, some of them, we always look back and like, what do we do here? What do we do here? And a lot of them is just like, you know, this is what we did. And it was our fault. But, you know, it's tough on some of those races with lap traffic, it just it plays a huge part. Eric just won that race. I mean, I just couldn't pass the lap traffic that was ahead of me.

Wyatt Pemberton: 18:24

Well, in Bleiler, you know, blow in the infield, double that confusion and how, you know, he ends up throwing away the national championship on a and navigate and navigation air?

Paul Horschel: 18:36

Yeah. You know, that's one thing. The focus of racing is, when you're focused so hard on racing, sometimes you make those bad judgments or bad judgment calls, like, Can I go around the soft finish? Did I not go on the Start finish? That race is kind of confusing, but I have my guys, you know, they're like, I come out of those woods. And it's like, did you make sure you go around the start finish and then you went around the star finish. Now you're heading to the woods or now you're heading to there. I mean, there, we just don't take any chances and that sort of thing. I mean, I just the more information to the driver, the better because the driver is really focused, you know, on racing. So if the stuff comes up on you really quick, and it's just a split second turn right, turn left, you know, it's just you have to have somebody there to help you do that stuff.

Wyatt Pemberton: 19:30

And he got a bunch of got some people in the UTV race. I don't know if it got anybody in the MC race, but when how big

Paul Horschel: 19:36

people every year and I'm just like, how did these people do it? And I could, you know, one of these days it might even get me. I hope not. Yeah, but I mean that race was was pretty cool. I mean, it was, you know, the new car is working great. It's just, you know, when it comes down to it. I think we had about a three minute lead on Eric going into the woods. I knew I could hold the same pace as him through the woods. So I did go into that lap. They told me about a three minute lead, I could hold the same pace. And I would win the race. No problem. But you know, with lap traffic, I just got held up probably about three minutes, three and a half minutes. And that was it. It was enough to take it out. Yeah, I ended up going up that waterfall thing and sliding backwards behind the guy. And

Wyatt Pemberton: 20:25

oh, that was horrible that that 30 degree or 40 degree up to your right out of the creek.

Paul Horschel: 20:31

They kind of go out of a creek and you know, you start going up the hill, you kind of go up this rock face and go back around. And you know, a lot of these guys don't hit the stuff with speed. And if you follow too close, I really hate following people. But when you're trying to pass people, sometimes you have them along until it opens up. But, you know, it should be nice that these guys would just try to move out of the way since there are a whole lot down. You know what I mean? It's just, you

Wyatt Pemberton: 20:59

know, hold up the leaders.

Paul Horschel: 21:00

Yeah. I mean, a couple people told me I just got to start using the front bumper more nuts. That's my plan for this year. It's just, I just have to it just cost me too many races to not use the front bumper.

Wyatt Pemberton: 21:11

Well, there's everybody's warning right there. You just put it out there. Yeah, I'll start hitting people. But I mean, but but let's just be very serious and honest about this. The the fun, it is fun for you. But the business side of it is you had four, four times this year, you were out of first place by less than 30 seconds. Four times.

Paul Horschel: 21:31

Yeah. Well, the first two I definitely lost to Lauren, it was new car setup and stuff like that. But the second two, well, the last one was definitely lab traffic. And this the the one in the lab was definitely lab traffic, but it was also some errors on our pit side of things. You know, we were just trying to keep that three minute cap. So they had me going really slow for three laps. Guys, were just saying, you know, go slow, go slow, go slow. And then they weren't keeping track of the Gomez brothers who are coming up pretty quick behind me. And by the time I got the call on the last lap, which laps were taken, you know, I think I did a lap there and 16 minutes. By the time they told me on the last lap, I had to make up two minutes. It just wasn't possible. I think it was possible. But I just got hung up, you know, by a guy that was a lap down and pretty fast guy. But he was, you know, 80% by speed, making a bunch of dusts and I just couldn't take the chance. Yeah, I couldn't take the chance to get so tight there to get around people. It just took me it took me four or five miles to get around them. And then by that time, I can't make up two minutes. Well, so let's let's let's talk about Paul,

Wyatt Pemberton: 22:45

you know, let's talk about who you are outside of the racing world. And then we'll we'll go through some stuff. And then we'll circle back to racing. But currently, you know, you're sitting tonight you you're over in Park City, Utah, where you live a family but you grew up in Alaska,

Paul Horschel: 23:01

right? Yeah, I was born in Fairbanks, Alaska, lived in a little town about 100 miles south of there called Delta junction, Alaska, right on the Tennessee River. Alaska is amazing place growing up. I went to school as this in the same grade as my older brother. So my older brother was a year older than me, but due to difficulties with my mom not being able to drive a car and my dad working up in the oil fields. It was it just made sense for him to postpone in the same grade. Okay. You know, he was five and I was four and we went to kindergarten and we went all the way through high school and delta. You're from a pretty big family to I think you know, you you've only six sisters, two brothers, or Yeah, right. Yeah, I got my mom and dad. They still live up in delta junction. My mom runs a little restaurant up there. I have six sisters and two brothers I Lydia, my youngest Stephanie, BB, Anna, Esther, and Claudia, who is older than me. And then I got a younger brother, Luke, and my older brother, ape, who I went to school with. We're all spread out now. But most of them still live up in Alaska. You have a place up there now, don't you? Yeah, we ended up buying a place that I actually when I was about 13 or 14, it was a big huge log place on this big piece of property. But I actually peeled the logs for and sanded the logs when I was, you know, going to high school and building. And the guy ended up dying probably six or seven years ago and we ended up buying the place. So that's kind of right, right in between my wife's house where the house where my wife grew up in the house where I grew up. So it's kind of it's kind of cool to go back there and relax. It's, it's on a creek on a river and we got about 154 acres or so up there. So it's pretty cool to go out there and, you know, do whatever you want.

Wyatt Pemberton: 25:00

Yeah, and now I mean, living in Park City I saw. Look, you know, looking at your stuff that you have on Instagram that you guys had a you guys were getting ready for a race chase trucks in the driveway in a moose walks like, like I think it was like Mitch, I think Mitch is like standing on a chase truck and then like the moose just like walks by him.

Paul Horschel: 25:18

Yeah, we're all going up in Alaska, we used to moose. They don't really scare me or bother me. Moose were everywhere if they're there like deer. But down here in Utah, in general, they're not around as much but up where we live. We're kind of up on this ridge. And we see moose probably at least once a week. And I've got pictures of five loose at one time in my backyard. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Wyatt Pemberton: 25:47

So as I was walking in the room here to, to get on the phone with you and get this going tonight. I tell my wife, you know, oh, who are you interviewing? And I said you all horschel You know what? He lives in Park City. And we're sitting here, we're booking spring break. Our kids actually now have a two week spring break coming up. And it was we're gonna fly to Salt Lake no matter what. But it was between Park City and Jackson Hole. And once the kids were shown all the different activities, Jackson Hole one out. So sorry, we're not gonna come see you in March. Or maybe we will? I don't know. But yeah, the current plan is to go up to Jackson Hole. But Park City was in the mix. And I was like, Oh, yeah, yeah. So Paul lives in Park City. I looked at the kids I go, he has a ski lift in his backyard. He installed his own ski lift.

Paul Horschel: 26:35

And they're like, What? Who has that? I'm like,

Wyatt Pemberton: 26:39

we have 175 foot zip line in my backyard, but not a ski lift. So tell me about this. Your place there in Park City with a ski lift? How

Paul Horschel: 26:47

cool is that? Well, we don't quite have the ski lift up. Yeah, that's, that's always been the dream of mine. Since I was I was into snowboarding. So I always wanted to give my kids that experience. But it's always been like a dream of mine to have a ski left in the backyard. And we ended up buying this piece of property on a big hill. So we ended up picking up two rope toes this summer. And we got one of them in, we still gonna put the cable on it and I'm doing some modifications to the electric motor right now to get it to work. And the second one, I just put ball racing and I mean, it's just, it's just too time consuming. We physically had to go clear lift lines and you know, ski trails. So I was running an excavator up in there just pretty much opening the mountainside up just to make this happen. So it'll be Yeah, then winter happens. So now we got snow on the ground. So we'll have the one ski lift done in running this year. But the second one will be probably next year before we get it in.

Wyatt Pemberton: 27:49

I'm inviting myself already. It was

Paul Horschel: 27:52

gonna be a fun time. I got a I got a snowcat too I got a little pre nof snowcat that we bought so we can go out and you know, they'll jobs, whatever you want to do. So yeah, I want to send you I'll send you down on a innertube

Wyatt Pemberton: 28:07

what that works. Yeah, well, I want to talk about your, your snowcats channel. For sure. So we did get ahead. Yeah, so so your wife and you you both grew up in delta junction, which is you know, half about what halfway between Fairbanks and anchorage? Um, I'd

Paul Horschel: 28:25

say it's a little close to that quarter quarter of the way because it's where about 100 miles to Fairbanks and about 350 to Anchorage wasn't that far by the by the roadway, you know, road miles. But so

Wyatt Pemberton: 28:39

that was my next question. How much did you fly? Basically, everyone says if you live in Alaska, you just fly everywhere.

Paul Horschel: 28:47

I didn't fly anywhere till I was probably 18 or so or 20. I mean, we drove everywhere. We just didn't leave Alaska. So basically, when I graduated school when I was 17, and my brother was 18, we hopped in a car, and we drove to Utah, we didn't know a soul in Utah, much less than the lower 48. And we're just two kids in a car. And we we looked at magazines, and we were like, We were all into snowboarding. So we looked at all these, it was before internet and all this stuff. You know, this is early 90s, you know, late.

Wyatt Pemberton: 29:21

So like, outside magazine, and well like snowboarding magazines, or like,

Paul Horschel: 29:26

we would just look at the stats of the list like, Oh, this gear has, you know, 3000 Bert, Oh, this one has, you know, gets this much snow. So you just, you know, it was all about the statistics and we're just like, okay, we're going to Utah. So we just hopped in a car didn't have much else to do you know, we well crazy. Then it goes. I worked all summer and he did too. But I was 17 and he was 18. So I cut out like I got this job that I wasn't supposed to have but I paid a lot of money and they didn't ask me how old I was. So we had a big pile of cash. So we just you know We're moving to Utah. So we just drove down to Utah. Was that 1994 1994? Yeah, it was pretty crazy. I mean, we were just two kids. I mean, now looking back at some of the stories, and I mean, there's one, we moved to Utah. And we didn't know anything about Utah. You know, we've never been outside of Alaska. So we go, because then we, it says Salt Lake City. So we go to Salt Lake City, when we start trying to find a place to live. So we find this, you know, rundown motel like 700 South State Street, we're staying at, you know, Tulsa was pretty nice. But it was just like this little, you know, one story like roach motel. Like it was definitely a roach motel.

Wyatt Pemberton: 30:46

Like, holding hands,

Paul Horschel: 30:48

right? We didn't even know the only the only clue we got was we were trying to rent a house. And we had all this money, but we didn't have any credit cards. We didn't have any, you know, references or anything. It was just a couple kids, right? So nobody would run us a house. And finally, this one lady, she told us she was like, You know what? I'm not gonna rent you this house. But let me give you a hint. Don't put that hotel on your application, because nobody's gonna rent your house if your state.

Wyatt Pemberton: 31:18

Fair enough. So that's good advice. Yeah.

Paul Horschel: 31:22

Yeah. So I mean, just, we're just two kids. You know, it's just, it's just crazy. Looking back at that. We made it all work, but it's a great story. So

Wyatt Pemberton: 31:31

what was the first job you guys got? What did you guys do when you first got down here?

Paul Horschel: 31:35

To the lower 48? Well, when I was 17, he was 18. That summer, we worked as firefighters. So in firefighting paid pretty good back then. And then when we moved to Utah, I got a job as a lift operator at Snowbird. And ram left over there just allowed us to go we were just into snowboarding. So whatever it took to go snowboarding and be picked Snowbird as we never been there. But it was just, you know, statistically a good place. So we just started going snowboarding there. You know, so

Wyatt Pemberton: 32:09

you were always you're always in a snowboard. But I know you were, you know, based on how you are today. You've kind of always been in anything with a motor. Right?

Paul Horschel: 32:17

I've been in a motors. I think it was about 2000. Or sorry, 1984. And when my dad bought he came home with a Honda Big Red Three Wheeler. I don't know if you remember those? Oh, yeah, murder machines.

Wyatt Pemberton: 32:30

Absolutely. nosis, the suspension was the tires.

Paul Horschel: 32:33

There was no suspension in the back and it had low range in it. It had the high low, you know, shaft drive. It was like, awesome. So I started driving that when I was seven years old. It was because no one else like to drive. Like my brother, my older brother and older sister didn't want to die. They're like Paul, you drive. It was like, Okay, I like to drive. So I'll drive. Alright, but I ended up getting hit by a car, broke my leg that was seven years old. I didn't know what I was doing. But ever since then, I was just into into motors and into motorcycles. I probably started driving motorcycles when I was 10. You know, we didn't have much money. So it was we just had cheap dirt bikes that we could, you know, pick up for$500 or whatever. And we always, we always tried to modify them to go, you know, we always, you know, lifted other people's bikes. And likewise, this guy, you know, he's got this bike, it's so much faster. So we would just try and modify our bikes to be faster, you know, because they're always the Dual Shock bikes versus, you know, the mono shock bikes back in the day, but we'd always put bigger shocks on I remember on my Three Wheeler cutting the whole front end off of it and putting putting shocks on it. You know, motorcycle forks on the front end badly when I was 13 years old. Just a better suspension, you know, go faster. Solving problems. Yeah.

Wyatt Pemberton: 33:53

What year did you get into snowmobiles, where you're already down? You're living in Utah by snow, snowmobiling? Or was that actually something that you guys you were around in Alaska?

Paul Horschel: 34:02

That was around so billing in Alaska, but you know, I couldn't really I never got a snowmobile trails probably about 13 years old, just because they were too expensive. Finally, my parents bought me I used LBL ended up blowing the motor at work, not just working on it a lot. But it was a good project. And I didn't really Alaska, everybody thinks Alaska have as like big huge mountains and stuff. But where we grew up was more flatlands. The big mountains were there but the access was just too hard to get to. So we just rode snowmobiles, you know, in the fields and stuff like that. But I didn't get into mountain snowmobiling till I moved down to Utah was down here and we wanted to go out and go snowboarding up in the bigger mountains behind the ski laughs And I was like, well, let's just get us you know, snowbell so we got into snowmobiling that way. It kind of back into snowmobiling that way. And you know, having the snowboarding background of like, let's go down the chute. You know, we got snowmobiles when I was like, let's go up the chute, you know. So it was like, there was a whole new whole new ballgame to try.

Wyatt Pemberton: 35:08

And just like rock crawlers that like break a trail for the first time they get a name the trail, you've done some shoots, some pretty gnarly climbs, and you've got to name some climbs.

Paul Horschel: 35:17

Yeah, it's, you know, we broke a lot of climbs down here in Utah, up in Canada, even to and it's, it's pretty amazing where these slides will go. I mean, most people won't even. They don't even look at it up at the mountainside actually see the shoe because their snowmobiles can't even go up there. It's kind of like rock crawling, like, if you are extreme Rock Crawler, you look at different stuff, you know what I mean? Whereas if you're a trail Wheeler, you don't look at the extreme rock on the side of the trail and try and get your buggy over it. But that's kind of where we took snowmobiling was into that extreme area of like, shoots you know, we went on.

Wyatt Pemberton: 35:56

I mean, we pretty much for three or four years, it was fine. Every shoot and climate there was in Utah, Nevada, everywhere. Obviously, you always need more horsepower. So then that parlayed into you doing some work developing some turbo kits, because you can't leave well enough alone, knowing

Paul Horschel: 36:17

about there's always a Yeah, a horsepower. Like, I want to do that. But my head is holding me back. So it's like, what do we do? Well, let's turbo charge jet. I was into like turbo cars, when I was probably I think I was 17 or so I got a turbocharged car. RX seven. And so I was, you know, always trying to turn off the boost on that thing. And when I got into snowmobiling, I'm like, man, why don't they just put a turbo on this thing. So we ended up turbo sleds and getting you know, 400 plus horsepower out of them. And they pretty much they'll scare you what they'll climb up, it is

Wyatt Pemberton: 36:56

unbelievable. Anything you can hang on to as long as you can hang on to it, it'll go up, right?

Paul Horschel: 37:01

probably still gonna ride it. So you still got to have the skills to navigate this machine out there. But it's, and then when it does, when you don't make it, it's pretty much a yard sale at the bottom and you'll be sliding out of your butt pick it up parts all the way.

Wyatt Pemberton: 37:17

So that's a lot of I know, I know, talking to Tom ways about this. You too, have kind of bonded over that, like you guys have a lot of commonalities. I mean, he was from Pennsylvania, ended up at squaw and then ended up in southern Alaska, doing similar, you know, the stuff that you were doing in Utah. He was doing Alaska, even though you came from Alaska came to Utah. I mean, that's kind of cool to have a guy inside over for that you guys can sit in, you know, rap session about that type of stuff, right?

Paul Horschel: 37:47

Yeah, Tom's always been cool. And then I kind of knew a friend of Tom's from my snowboarding days, named Chris Coulter. And Chris knew I was building this ultra parkour. And he was like, Well, I know this guy, Tom, that raises old four. So Chris would be telling Tom, you know, hey, this guy Paul's build this car. And Tom was like, you know, thinking like, but you know, what he was thinking, but then I show up to this race. And Tom is Tom was there and he was like, Oh, you're Paul. And he's like, Oh, you got a you know, you got ifms car. So, we kind of bonded right away. It was like, you know, he was into the same stuff I was into, you know, up in the mountains, snow. He was on skis, I was on snowboard. That was always, you know, I think he's, he's the same as me. And that sort of thrill seeking of going down the mountain faster, you know, hit the jump.

Wyatt Pemberton: 38:39

I think you two are amazing, but I think you're not jobs. And that's okay with me. Like, I think you guys are badass is. But you're still crazy. As I'll get out. I think as I buy, if I grew up in was around the same stuff. As you guys, we'd be, you know, birds of a feather flock together, like, oh, you're going up there? Okay, I guess I'll go up it and the next, you know, you're,

Paul Horschel: 38:57

you're there. Well, that's how it works. I mean, you're just pushing the one. It's just evolution, you know, you see one guy do a 360 and you want to do a 540. You know, it's, it's just, that's just the next step. It's trying to be better than the other guy or do that. You know, the trick a little better. Do you know, race a little faster than the other guy? It's, you know, I guess that's how I've always been. Since I was young. It's just, I guess it's just competition, you know?

Wyatt Pemberton: 39:25

So you lose four races this year by less than 30 seconds. So we're getting the goals up to like lose four races by less than 10 seconds. That

Paul Horschel: 39:33

No. Great. The goal is always to win. But sometimes, sometimes car breaks, sometimes you just can't win. You know, sometimes there's other problems, but you try and win as many as you can. And that's, that's 100% of the goal was to come in, you know, number one spot and definitely don't want the number two spot and that's the worst.

Wyatt Pemberton: 39:57

Yeah, that's your mind. Yeah. I love your mindset on that. That's the absolute right mindset to be to be a winner there and be successful. I'm gonna mispronounce these, but I know you've got one. We talked about snow machines or snowcats, hageland haglund.

Paul Horschel: 40:11

How do you pronounce that? That's it, that's a haglund it. So actually on three of them, but there is that thing is, it's a military amphibious vehicle. So this all goes back to growing up as a kid. And there was a military base that was located nearby and these haglund would always be driving around. Okay, and I just always think of myself, like that was like, you know, by now how to make some money. So I ended up buying a couple that we have up in Alaska, they're really hard to find. They because they look

Wyatt Pemberton: 40:48

like they look like Russian Arctic Circle types type things but, but then they had like this little twist of they look like you just see him like normal on a ski mountain anywhere in North America.

Paul Horschel: 41:00

It's kind of a cool vehicle because it's all mechanically driven. So two of them that I own have motor swaps on them. And one still is finished. I put a Ecotec 2.0 liter turbocharged motor, and there, it makes 300 more yours than a turbo 400 and basically runs the driveshaft out of the turbo 400 into a divorced transfer case. Okay. And out of the transfer case has a drive shaft that runs the back two tracks. And then the driveshaft comes out of the front of the transformation runs the front two tracks, okay, and so it's four wheel or four track drive, which is kind of odd, but it's, it makes it easy. It's like a rock crawler. It's like a Jeep, you know, like, you don't like that motor while put a different motor in it. So it's kind of a cool vehicle in that regard. But it does have its base restraints that you can only put so big of a motor in there. It's not like you can just put, okay, let's put this big block in there. No, it's an amphibious vehicle that actually goes on water, land, dirt, snow that was made for the US military, made in Sweden by a company called haglund. Pretty cool vehicle. We use them for hunting up in Alaska. And then like inside,

Wyatt Pemberton: 42:18

like how many people can you get inside one? Or plus gear or?

Paul Horschel: 42:22

Low? It's a it's a 17 passenger vehicle. That's what the straight of viewers

Wyatt Pemberton: 42:27

see. That's why it's

Paul Horschel: 42:28

not huge, though. It's, it's six feet wide.

Wyatt Pemberton: 42:31

Yes. They look small in your pictures.

Paul Horschel: 42:33

Yeah, so it's six feet wide and about 23 feet long, but it's the way the military designed. It was six passengers in the front and the 11 in the back. Okay, but it's really, uh, it's pretty compact vehicle. But, I mean, you could obviously get that many people in there. But it did the capability of that vehicle is pretty, I mean, it can go across rivers, I can go through snow through mud, that just, you can pretty much go anywhere so which is you know, pretty cool vehicle in that regard.

Wyatt Pemberton: 43:07

Well, I like him. I was curious. I was curious to hear exactly what they were and how they came to be. And like how you ended I didn't realize you had so many of them, but that's even awesome, too. That's that's

Paul Horschel: 43:18

super cool. Whenever I see one for sale and they usually don't cost that much money. Unless you buy like a fully refurbished one. But whatever I see one or parts for sale. I just buy it just because I there. You can't get that stuff. That rare? Yeah. Well, there's probably a few 100 of them around. But I mean, most people just have them. They're not selling them. They're, you know, using them.

Wyatt Pemberton: 43:39

I saw Jason shear, you know, he had a he's got a snowcat or maybe he has two snowcats. Now, like, I think they're like four six passenger deals that they they run around their mountain area around Tahoe or I forget the name of

Paul Horschel: 43:54

Yeah, Jason's got a little. He's got a little fire call that. I think it's a sprite that it's also mechanical tight drive. snowcat, this new snowcat we bought as a full hydraulic with a little turbo diesel motor in it. So it should be pretty cool. The mechanical snowcats you can't really spin on a dime with them because it's a it's more like breaking one track. Okay, but the haglund actually doesn't. It turns by articulating the calves. We're actually putting cutting breaks in that one so you can put the brakes on the tracks on the laughter tracks on the right and try to you know, maneuver it a little better. Oh, that's cool. Okay. Yeah, so we pretty much don't leave anything stock. No,

Wyatt Pemberton: 44:37

I know you don't. So we we have similar stuff down here on the Gulf Coast, but it doesn't see snow. It's all for swamp and Marsh and, and that stuff stuff where you know you wouldn't use an airboat for, because it's not airboat type terrain, but it's a mud Gumbo and they dress drive those things across the top button so like like the telephone crews, the powerline crews That's what they drive. There's a lot of them.

Paul Horschel: 45:01

Yeah, that's, that's pretty much what we use them in Alaska for because Alaska is loosening up there. You're in the lowlands a lot. Yep. So yeah, those things are amazing in the swamps. They just cruise. They float, they haul a lot of stuff. We go hunting, and I bring all my sisters, nieces, nephews, I mean, they just, you know, we go out 4050 miles with kids that are under two years old, you know, just the full. It's just a fun time.

Wyatt Pemberton: 45:29

So your wife, Dr. Hilary, you've known your whole life.

Paul Horschel: 45:33

I want to say not my whole life, but probably it's hard to remember that far back. But probably since I was six, as we may be a little earlier that but that's when I kind of moved over to her neighborhood area. And we lived a couple miles apart, but there was probably only like three houses between us here. And we pretty much rode the bus together to school for, you know, 12 years or 10 years. So yeah, we we didn't start dating until later in high school. But yeah, we've been together 25 years and married for 16. Now,

Wyatt Pemberton: 46:10

all that is congratulations. But what was her thought process in in 94, when you and your brother loaded up and move to the lower 48. And you left her? would she say about that?

Paul Horschel: 46:21

I don't know. I mean, I don't think it was, I think it was tough, but it was like, you know, winter is Alaska are tough. They're just, she was still in school. So I had graduated and it was like, Well, I'm gonna go down here and do this because I'm not gonna sit up here all winter. And she was I think she was I think she was okay with it.

Wyatt Pemberton: 46:40

I mean, that was you were 25 years ago, this. But then she ends up coming down, she ends up going to college, and then med school and now she's a pediatric ICU doctor, which is amazing blows my mind.

Paul Horschel: 46:56

I guess she works at primary Children's Hospital here in Salt Lake. That's why we kind of live close to here, you know, Park City area. But we basically, when she graduated high school, she moved down to Malibu and went to school at Pepperdine for four years. And we dated all through that. And then she got accepted in the University of Utah, and did our med school here. And then she was able to stay on with them. And now she just works. hospital here. That's

Wyatt Pemberton: 47:27

awesome. Like, that's like, making the stars align and everything working out perfectly. And you can't meet that. That's

Paul Horschel: 47:33

Yeah, we thought we were gonna have to do some moving around. But that being that we could actually stay in Utah. So yeah, it was it was pretty cool to be able to stay here. I think she probably would have liked to move but not not against Utah. But for career. Just stay in one place too long for the stuff she does is I guess it can be tough. I'm not you know,

Wyatt Pemberton: 47:54

it's I don't know what your goals are. Right. So is she is she an off roading? Is she supports everything you do, obviously. But if she into the offered stuff or the any of the racing stuff,

Paul Horschel: 48:06

she's not an offer. But I mean, we grew up off road, basically. I mean, I grew up both of us grew up with no power, no phones until probably I was 14 when the phones Shut up. So both of us grew up no power, though. She had no bathroom. So no, no shower. They had an outhouse outside our house that had running water when you started the generator. But so we both grew up pretty off road ish. Like, you know, I guess they call it off the grid off the grid. Yeah, yeah. So whoever wants to live off the grid? You don't want to do that. Because I take a roommate. That's probably beyond the grid. Well, now

Wyatt Pemberton: 48:47

and this is making sense. This is probably why you can hold it for so long in our race cars, because you grew up like that. You're like, Okay, I need to pee. But it's minus 30. outside. I don't want to bundle up to go the house.

Paul Horschel: 48:59

Yeah, I don't know if it's that. We, I think, but that's part of I mean, that's definitely something but I don't know if it translates into racing. I think that's just me being intense. But I think you know, just growing up in that situation of, you know, both of us growing up and wanting to be better is what kind of is brought us, you know, to where we are,

Wyatt Pemberton: 49:22

man. No, it's amazing. Now, today, today, you guys have two kids. You've got a son Matthew, and then a daughter, Lizzie. And they're pretty amazing, right? You're enjoying being being a father?

Paul Horschel: 49:33

Definitely. You know, we didn't have kids for a long time. And they kind of got to that point where it's like, well, I wanted kids and my wife didn't actually want kids and she was like, Well, if you want kids, we better. You know, have kids because I don't go too much longer to have these kids. Or I don't you know, Vince I'm like, okay, you better try and have some kids.

Wyatt Pemberton: 49:54

So here

Paul Horschel: 49:55

we are. Having a kid at 40 is a is a pretty Rough?

Wyatt Pemberton: 50:00

No, you're crazy earlier, like the snowmobile and stuff. I just it wasn't all that it's like, collectively crazy. I can't imagine at all, I mean, the baby diaper stuff from memory and minor only, you know, 13 and nine,

Paul Horschel: 50:14

you know, so it's been amazing. But you definitely want to do it in your lifetime. And, I mean, it was just somebody had to do it, we wanted to do it, you know, but they've been amazing. I mean, they're definitely a lot of work. But having a family, having that support, having, you know, kids run up and hug you and, you know, call you on the phone. It's just, it's a part of life, I think you definitely need

Wyatt Pemberton: 50:39

experience. And so recently young being in Baja you're away from so they wouldn't know where daddy went, right?

Paul Horschel: 50:46

Yeah, Lizzie, you know, she can barely choose like, are you in Mexico? But luckily, for now, or, you know, nowadays we have, you know, technology like FaceTime. So even in Mexico, they were facetiming me every night, you know, Daddy, what are you up to when you come home? You know, that sort of thing? You know, but they're amazing. I don't know. Once you have kids, it's like, how we live without them. So no,

Wyatt Pemberton: 51:17

I agree with you.

Paul Horschel: 51:18

I fully agree with you one before kids you could live without or be or there's like, well, I don't know what kids are. But once you have them, you're just like, Oh, we should have kids 10 years ago.

Wyatt Pemberton: 51:31

You and I kind of brought this up when when this was going when we were scheduled this union, you had to make sure like that Hillary was going to be home to take the kids so would free you up to be able to do the call. And some things like that. And like, yeah, it takes a village, but it really takes us like scheduling, you need to have a wonderful partner that supports you and, and you support her and you know, everything that goes on there. And yeah, you guys are clearly doing it. Right.

Paul Horschel: 51:58

Yeah, it's it's definitely a lot of scheduling. You know, before I was like, Oh, I can go snowmobiling. And you know, come home at 10 at night. And now it's like, oh, my wife's got to work tonight. Or Oh, my wife was you know, gets off at five. So I got to be home. Take the kids from three to five or you know, it's it's definitely a lot more responsibility, but it's definitely worth it. But you definitely lose some of that freedom that I asked for. That definitely as

Wyatt Pemberton: 52:25

well. Oh, yeah. You'll tell it you'll have to sorry, you know, or Sheila says this, Hillary, thank you for for freeing Paul up for me tonight. And for everybody else that's gonna listen to this. This is awesome. Yeah.

Paul Horschel: 52:35

Yeah, she's out the kids right now. I told her. I told her I was like, I got this like interview thing for a couple hours. And she looked at me how to where and she's like, Okay, do you need me to help you? That's like, probably, but yeah, I

Wyatt Pemberton: 52:49

don't think she was solved our speaker microphone issue. That was that was too much. I mean, it's working out right now. I can see you but we're recording across the cell phones.

Paul Horschel: 53:00

It's technology technology today.

Wyatt Pemberton: 53:03

I mean, I skipped something and I want to go back to it. Like David Hartman and Nick Nelson. They're into the mini jet boats. JT Taylor just pulled the trigger on a mini jet boat Cody Wagner has a mini jet boat. I really want one.

Paul Horschel: 53:16

I don't really think I have a place to ride one that's why I haven't really bit that off. But you've got one I got mine's a 14 butter but it's a little bit so it's a little bigger. I actually got some CAD drawings I'm working on the bill mail and mini jet boat because I got some ideas on how to make it better but I actually didn't get into jet boating until we bought this place up in Alaska and then we bought a boat just as a kid we couldn't afford about but Alaska is it's an amazing place but there is no roads access anything you just got a couple main highways no doubt in the states we have roads that go you know old mining roads or farming roads or you know access roads everywhere. I mean there there's roads within five miles pretty much everywhere down here in Alaska as soon as you get off the main road, there's nothing so a jet boat is freedom. It's like exploring a highway that you've never driven out. So we go up there and we just take these rivers well I got a river right on the back of my house we actually dug in a boat ramp there so I can just load the boat right behind the house and then just dock it beyond the house. We can just go out and explore you know explore the stuff that I always wanted to explore when I was a kid like what's over that hill?

Wyatt Pemberton: 54:38

Yeah made notes like like Paul is a guy that should have a mini jet boat and then a bat you know do my background on you. Sure enough. You already had a mini jet boat because I was I think I put in the notes like are you into those would you be up with one? No, you already have one Got it?

Paul Horschel: 54:52

Yeah, they're they're a lot of fun that just but it's just like anything else. It's it's a lot of fun, but it's got to have buddies. with them, and they, they're our work do so that's the biggest thing is you got to have buddies with them, because you're gonna get yourself in places. And if you break down in those places, you're not gonna have any help. The guy's got a big boat, he can't go up in there. For the most part, Jet boats are just a way of travel up in Alaska. So you can definitely see a lot more country. Another way of travel up there is airplanes, but I kind of decided to put that on the back burner for a little bit. It seems like a lot of guys have gotten out of ultra for have gotten into airplanes. And I'm like, Man,

Wyatt Pemberton: 55:35

I'm just not a pilot. I don't think that's I don't think that's what I aspire to do. Even Dave Coles talked about getting a plane. Oh, really? Dave? Yeah. Why?

Paul Horschel: 55:44

Yeah. Yeah, maybe. The I was all going to Holland, until about a year ago, when a friend of ours passed away from crashing his airplane down on my lap. But oh, Carol. Yeah, Kevin. But I mean, he pretty much had the airplane I wanted to buy. I think Kevin, guys like Kevin, guys like me, I think it's, I don't know if airplanes are a good idea. Because I think we tend to use an airplane not as a mode of transportation, but as a mode of thrill. I think that could end up bad. So I decided to, you know, kind of hold off an airplane, maybe till I get a little older, or, you know, a little wiser. I don't know. But I think me getting an airplane and flying up, you know, 2000 feet is gonna be really boring. So I'm going to want to like, see if I can go down and buzz creek or, you know, go rock vase, or whatever it is. It's not gonna be you just don't have second chances. or play.

Wyatt Pemberton: 56:44

I think you were your heads head is that is in the right place on anything in life on that is that you have at least a self awareness and the self respect of what your mind wants to do and what we'll do and what could happen

Paul Horschel: 56:56

that you've been smart. Yeah, I just choose to not put myself in that position. You know, it just well with kids too. It's just, you know, I want to see him grow up. It's just, it's just not worth it to take an airplane out and try and do something dumb in it. crash it and die, you know, right? Oh,

Wyatt Pemberton: 57:17

yeah. Yeah, yeah. Kevin Carroll is also as a I mean, as it does a bad deal. That was that was a bad deal. And he, I mean, now there was a loss for the community. His red dot chassis says red cars, or, I mean, they're just billy goats.

Paul Horschel: 57:30

They're just amazing. Billy Goats. Yeah, like Kevin was just, I mean, he was the same. I just like a Kevin and just, you know, I understand what he was trying to do, or just, he was trying to take his red cars, like, places where people couldn't take his cars. And he's trying to do the same with airplanes. And I don't think I think you can do it for a long time. But, you know, there's so much variation in an airplane, like, you know, an extra 200 pound passenger in the back or full of fuel or not full of fuel or the wind. Whereas a car, you're just grounded. You're, it doesn't matter about all that stuff. And it's, you could hit a downdraft or something airplane and, you know, when you're taking chances of you could easily not make it. Or the other day, you made it No problem.

Wyatt Pemberton: 58:16

Right? Yeah, wow. No, I can see that. I think your head's in the right spot, man. So job wise, you are, you're an exploration drilling, come in the oil field a little bit you you're at a company called Tony tech, and you've been there 20 years now, on time, drilled all over the world now.

Paul Horschel: 58:40

I started in the drilling business when I was 18. So after the year, we moved to Utah, we would go back to Alaska and the summers, that it obviously paid a lot more money up there. So we got jobs. And when I was 18, I got a job on a drill rig. So I pretty much worked for that company, from 18 to 29 ish. So 10 or 12 years ago, I started just being a, you know, a drill hand and worked my way up to being the Operations Manager over you know, 20 drill rigs when I was you know, 2930. And then it was a, it was more of a family owned company. It had that more family atmosphere was a family owned, but it just, we were a smaller company, it was, you know, didn't have that Corporation feel to it. And it got bought out by the second largest drilling company in the world. At that time. It was instantly overnight, it just like changed the whole feel of the company. It was kind of weird because I thought I'd worked there for the rest of my life. And then that happened and it was just it was just a different atmosphere. So two guys that I worked with for, you know, those 12 years and I decided to start our own business. Back in 2007, we didn't have any money. But we didn't know what we were doing. We didn't even know anything about business, really, we knew how to drill holes in the ground. Right? But but we made it work. And we were still a small company we have about anywhere from 50 to 70 employees. And we have 11, drill rigs, and we drill and we drill core holes. And we drill, we focus most of our stuff on the western US. And it's, it's more, it's more Well, we're good at deep core holes.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:00:35

How deep Do you guys go?

Paul Horschel: 1:00:37

Because all we've drilled was 9200 feet. And what's the temperature at the bottom of that hole? where it was? I don't know exactly, because we don't really temperature probe. But some of those holes that we do temperature probe can get up to like 180 ish, somewhere. But you know, sometimes we've drilled some geothermal holes that have had higher temperatures than that. But most of the time, when you drill deep, it starts to get warmer, right? Or we're drilling for minerals most of the time. So it's they're not they don't really care about the temperature.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:01:09

Is that something that you guys, you and Lauren have had some commonalities and ability to have some discussions on about, you know, similar, similar backgrounds? Lauren, working for core labs for all those

Paul Horschel: 1:01:21

years? Yeah, I think he was. I haven't talked to him actually too much about what he I know, he was in the oil field, but I think he had quit by the time I was in the ultra for, but he was in more to rock technology and stuff like that, I believe. 100% certain, but yeah, he's I mean, he's just a hard working guy. There's, you know, like me, that just has a passion for racing. So, but obviously, I think he was just working for somebody where not as an owner of a business. That's right. So was when he got he got to a point where he just, you know, was able to just raise full time, but I have other obligations. I mean, keep the ball rolling.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:02:08

Yeah, that's, that's something else. But I mean, you've drilled some, you've drilled some pretty cool places, like, you know, and I always mess up the name of this town, the name of this country. Could I stop? Yeah, Kurdistan. And what do you do over there?

Paul Horschel: 1:02:24

I think I was over there for four or five months, we were actually up at like 14,000 feet near the border of China. So Kurdistan is bordered by China, Afghanistan. kazakstan. And I think that's about it. I don't know too much about there over there. But that's just sketchy. So typically, we'll be drilling area like that. It's just, we're just up in the mountains somewhere drilling. It's not, you know, we're not in town. We're not. We're just out there. Because you start showing up in town, you might get your head chopped off. But right. It wasn't that bad where we were at, but we are there. Well, I was actually physically off the job site in Kurdistan. They threw the president out, burn the capital city. And so I go in there, you know, for three months did I go back out to fly out and then the whole city burnt down and, you know, boarded out with burnt down boarded up with plywood. That's a crazy experience. I mean, it's just

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:03:22

basically Detroit.

Paul Horschel: 1:03:24

Yeah. I don't know I've ever been to Detroit, but it probably something similar. was what I envy.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:03:32

Yeah. And then you end up in Madagascar to what, you know, we've all seen the movie, the Disney Pixar movies, Madagascar, but now we're talking about the real country off the coast of Africa.

Paul Horschel: 1:03:42

It was a pretty cool experience. I mean, I think everybody should go to a third world country before they're 25. And I'm not talking about Mexico. Oh, well, Mexico. It's not I mean, there's, there's some bad stuff. And, you know, the further down you go to Mexico, but I think a lot of people take it for granted what we have here, you know, but I remember just getting off the plane in Kenya. And it was just like, it was just an eye opening experience to get there and see how poor these people were. We came in there. We were trying to start a big mine up for you know, to make, you know, people opportunities there. But it's just amazing. I mean, those people are working for like a couple dollars a day. So I ended up spending about seven, eight months over there and we actually loaded up. And 124 Vietnam was for drill rigs. A log 518 cat logs scatter D six cat with a winch on the back to con axes, all the drilling equipment, and, like wood chippers and enough gear to last us seven, eight months. All on one plane and this is a suit Huge, ugly Russian cargo jet. It's a Russian cargo jet that was made to haul the Russian Space Shuttle. And so the nose, the nose tips up in this plane and the tail as a big ramp in the back, and it's so big that you could drive to, you know, bulldozers side by side all the way through it. It's, it's just one big shell, a big, you know, shell with big crane system inside of it. But we basically flew that thing that took five days to get over there, just because it has to land for fuel every four hours or something like that.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:05:37

Pass everything but a gas station.

Paul Horschel: 1:05:40

Much the same thing? Well, we it was, it was a cool experience, they were like, you guys want to weed out some room, what is funny you guys want to get in, we're like, sure, man we're going in. So we fly on this plane, and it has one window for the path in the passenger compartment. That's, you know, that's like, an eight inch window. And it's so high off the ground, you can't really see anything until it's you know, 200 yards out there. Because you're on the upper part of the circle of the airplane fuselage. So you couldn't tell you couldn't really tell if this airplane rumbled so much. You couldn't tell it this airplane was flying and taking off, you know, or taxiing down the runway or anything. It just the whole plane just rumbled. And it was it was pretty crazy.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:06:29

That's a blind faith, right? You said to have some blind faith that this thing is actually gonna defy the laws of physics and gravity and go through the air? Right?

Paul Horschel: 1:06:39

Well, it's I mean, those guys do. I mean, they, they really know their business. And they, I mean, it had to land. And when we landed in Madagascar, it had to land between, you know, midnight, and two o'clock in the morning, due to air density, because the runway was too short. So they, they go in there, and they have someone on the ground, checking air density when this plane lands. Because it's so big. Yeah. So but it was pretty cool to most jobs like that, you would have to, you know, put all your stuff in containers and ship it over by boat, and then trying to deal with customs and get all your stuff on a customs display. We were just like underground drilling in a week, you know, from Go Time, which was a huge benefit to the client to be able to get there, you know, it was for a nickel mine and be able to get that mind upon, you know, up and improved before some other minds came up.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:07:38

So how did you win a bid like that? or How did you even go about getting flagged up with a nickel mine in Madagascar? How

Paul Horschel: 1:07:45

does how does? Well, this this was before when I was working for, you know, not my own company. But when I was working for the other company, and it was, you know, it was they they were part of a mining group. Okay, so they had kind of a mining group and not mining group needed to help. So it was like, okay, we can do this, and we'll do it. You know, you want to show up there a week? Well, but two weeks, we can do that. But this is what it's going to cost because we got to rent this airplane. Actually, is that same airplane to go to her get them to because it's actually pretty beneficial to get somewhere fast. Versus

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:08:25

like the Pony Express. Right? That's like overnight delivery with

Paul Horschel: 1:08:29

your overnight delivery with a whole drilling fleet. You know, you just show up and you buy some pickups when you're laying on the ground and work.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:08:39

I feel like we should get into drug to gun running. I feel like you're flying around some countries that are always at war. I feel like we you know, we've missed we've missed our calling, you know, desert racer gun runner, you know, I feel like something

Paul Horschel: 1:08:56

I try. I try and do legal stuff. Yeah, I do love guns but it's crazy. Like you just land and then you just I mean we just start loading on semis like no customs No, nothing. I mean, if you wanted to bring guns, that's the way to do it. I just remember I remember landing there and you know this old rickety semi shows up to load our stuff on and it's the guy comes out you know, sandals on you know that are all beat up and you know pants with holes in them and he starts banging the pins out for the ramps on the semi and he's got a stick with a rock. You know, what some rope holding the rock on there for a hammer. And that's that's what he's beaten the pins out on. You know, it's

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:09:42

this just same thing, you know, cavemen used 10,000 years ago.

Paul Horschel: 1:09:46

We're still there. It's crazy that you'll see entire families there's really no gravel there. So because it's on a big Rock Island, but you'll see these rock quarries where these families will be Just be chipping rock out of this mountain. And they pretty much sweep, they'll chip out these bricks are building houses, they'll try it, you know, it's a pretty crude brick. And anything that's, you know, small enough for rock goes in the rock pile, and then anything smaller that goes in the sand pile. And you'll see these families just smashing two rocks together, sitting there cross legged and smashing rocks together to make smaller rocks. I mean, that's essentially how poor that country is just everything is done by hand. It's, I mean, if you go there for, you know, the time that I stood there seven, eight months, I may just go back to America, and you're just like, so glad to be back. It's,

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:10:42

it's a kiss on the ground. And, you know, the consumer economy that we have here. And no matter whatever it is, you you want, you can buy it if you if no one makes it, or it's too expensive, you design it yourself, and you make it yourself. You can

Paul Horschel: 1:10:57

at least, you know, here, you could at least work for something you could, you know, my motto has always just been like, go out and work harder than the other guy. And that's how you get ahead. There. You could work as hard as you want. And it doesn't get you anywhere, because there's nothing to work. Well,

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:11:13

I think it's the same from for me, the saying is work smart, not hard.

Paul Horschel: 1:11:17

And, yeah, you definitely want to work smart, but you want to, I shouldn't say work hard, but like accomplish more than, you know, just trying to get more stuff accomplished. And done in a day. And you know, at some point, you'll be further ahead than the other guy.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:11:33

You hope so when the dust settles right when or when your sand pile settles on sand piles.

Paul Horschel: 1:11:41

Well, the problem with the problem is with racing, you're you're racing against all those guys with the same thought process. So it's like, you know, at work, if you got a job at McDonald's or something new, like, okay, I'll just make more burgers and that guy, that'd be pretty easy to do, but, and you're going racing against the best guys in the world. I mean, all those guys have that same mindset. And it's it's pretty tough. I know, everybody wants to win. That's, you know, nobody wants second at all? Well, there's probably 10 guys and ultra for that, you know, we look at as true competitors. You know, there's a few guys out there that are a little slower, maybe just, you know, there for the experience. But there's probably 10 maybe 15 guys, depending on the race that are just in it for number one, you know, and it's and they're all in the, you know, same thought processes. You know, me? So it's hard the same? It's tough. Yeah, yeah, we're all wired the same. We're just all try not to hit that rock and destroy the car. And we'll show this is

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:12:43

a great place to jump into this. You know, you've seen where you're from you Alaska to Utah to how you ended up in the drilling, you know, in the world and your job and in going worldwide and experience and all that. How did you end up in ultra for you've been racing ultra for for what, six years now? Five years, some somewhere in there.

Paul Horschel: 1:13:08

I started racing in 2014. So it's just been one of those dreams as a kid. But I always looked at those magazines. I mean, it was always magazines back when we were kids. You probably know me. Yeah, the same. Older she was. Yeah. So it was always magazines, they would look and be like, Oh, these desert trucks, you know, like these guys racing the ball with 1000. You know, that was always like, these guys racing down bar, like these guys racing event. And it was always like, in the back of my head, like, I want to do that someday. So I mean, finally, when I was able to go do that, like, financially, I decided that it probably wasn't the best to jump right into a trophy truck. I mean, that was my plan. But it was like, Okay, if I jump into this trophy truck, who's gonna come down and help you feel this trophy truck and who's gonna come out, you know, how am I gonna go 1000 miles because I don't know Dave call at this moment in time. He's probably helped me out to go racing. So I was like, Okay, let's ultra forward start now. Now, she had a race in Utah. So I went over, just check it out. And I was like, Okay, these guys have real race cars. It seems like something I can maybe get into. And then, you know, Joe, I like it. I could kind of use it as a stepping stone or something to baja racing. But so I kind of been into since I started building the truck. Oh, I had a guy's company start building the truck in 2012. But it took him two years to build it. So I didn't race it until my first race was actually NorCal rock racing because I wanted to qualify for King of the hammers in 2014. And it was you have to qualify into King hammers unless you wanted to go into LC q. So they finished the truck. No Like, you know, obviously not finished that well, and it was just, you know, put those bolts in let's go racing in NorCal and ended up winning the race that won like 5000 bucks and won the race by qualified for getting the hammers. I'm like, like, it was pretty easy to race against these guys, but little I knows not that easy.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:15:23

Yeah, it was Beginner's luck, right? Well, I

Paul Horschel: 1:15:26

mean, it just wasn't done many good racers down there at that time racing. So, you know, you show up the king of the hammers, and it's just like a huge eye opener of like, well, I don't even know how to rock crawl. So what am I doing in these rocks? I mean, no, because I don't come from a rock crawling background or anything like that. I just, I like to drive fast. But so I'm still trying to learn the rocks. But you read terrain pretty well. I think that's, that's probably my best attribute to racing is train reading. And I think that I get that from I think it's train reading and holding momentum. And I think I get a lot of that from, you know, snowmobiling, even snowboarding, you know, trying to keep your speed through spots, and trying to like a train or where how I can hit this without, you know, blowing up my legs, or, you know, trying to go up this jump or, you know, just reading train like that and try and find the smooth spots. So I think that that definitely helped me a lot racing, especially an ultra for racing, because it's pretty much for me, it's pretty much looking, choosing two lines for my two tires. This is how I go about racing, is, you know, what am I gonna put that tire on? What am I gonna put that tire on, but

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:16:39

right at the rocks, I kind of get confused. Because it's a big puzzle. And you're trying to solve it at speed as it's coming at you, which is fine.

Paul Horschel: 1:16:49

Just, I think when I first started racing, I was just like, I'll just hit this thing super fast and try and blow through, then, you know, rear diff hangs on it. So there's actually a lot of talent. And it takes a lot of skill to go to rocks, and especially at speed. And it just takes seat time, plainly,

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:17:07

cleanly threw rocks at speed everywhere.

Paul Horschel: 1:17:10

The rocks are speed. I mean, it's just rocks are crazy, move over one foot that have a totally different line, or you can put your tire on this rock and go over that rock because it picked the side of the car up. But just knowing your car and knowing the rocks. I think that's one of the biggest struggles is kale. Ah, it's I always end up rolling the truck or doing something down. You know, I don't seem to have that problem at any other race. Okay. Oh, ah, so

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:17:38

Oh, you know, maybe maybe this year's the year right, as we approach catch 2021. But I don't want to get too far

Paul Horschel: 1:17:45

this year is definitely the year I mean, a very, are definitely going for it. But anyway, he has a, that's a pretty fast pace. I mean, it's. So you just have to, you have to know those rocks really well, and you know what your car can do. It's kind of a different deal than, you know, going down the race ball hall where you're just trying to,

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:18:04

you know, keep the truck together per 1000 miles and go to a decent pace, but you're not, you're not pushing it. Like, okay, ah, it's gonna be amazing what we do with kale. Ah, the thing that always you know, I know everyone struggles with this kale, ah, it's the you have your, your your heart rate up and your your processor up as you're running, you know, 60 7080 or 90 across, or 100 something across the lake bed. And then you drop into one of the canyons and you need to drop to one mile an hour, three miles an hour, five miles an hour, but your brain is still processing at a completely different speed in your hearts at a completely different speed.

Paul Horschel: 1:18:46

Yeah, it's, it's okay, weight is like nothing else out there. And then it just goes from these massive puzzling rock features that you have to try and get your car over to 100 you know, 20 mile an hour plus stuff too big whoops to sand too. loose rocks, mixed with sand. I mean, it's just, it's just one thing after another in that eight hours of kale, ah, it's just it's just one mistake can take you out and he just can't have those mistakes. You just have to you have to put it together. I mean,

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:19:24

it seems like look at Marcos this year, Marcos had it together and then ripped and a arm off within a mile you know, or two miles or three miles out whatever that was it wasn't very far out. Or Bleiler rolling and rolling on back door.

Paul Horschel: 1:19:39

Well that. I mean that just shows you the pace. They're just I mean, these people are in it to lose. They're, they're in it for the number one possession and that takes a jumping off the back door and rolling your talk or, you know, hitting a rock because you're going too fast around the corner. I mean that's that's where the racing and co h has gotten It's almost a sprint. Yeah, through the rocks and you just have to keep pace. It's. And I think all of all of ultra for racing is like that, you know, the speed these cars are going to the rocks these days is just, it's just crazy.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:20:15

And all the while keeping Eric Miller Bay.

Paul Horschel: 1:20:18

Yeah, Eric has Eric's I mean, we definitely can pull them in the desert. But he just got that car working so well on the rocks. It just means like a ninja is a ninja.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:20:30

How large? Rock ninja? Yeah. So what was your first year attending? kfh? Like, did you ever go as a spectator? Or was your first year that 2015? Or to race it after you qualified at Norco.

Paul Horschel: 1:20:42

2014 so 2014 kale ah was my first year knows straight to 4400 straight qualified NorCal picks up my car. I don't know too much about prep. I don't know too much about anything but show up at kale. Ah, then go racing.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:20:59

How'd that go? I never went back and looked. How did 2014 go for you?

Paul Horschel: 1:21:02

I don't really remember. I have to think about it. But not very well. I don't think I finished I think. I don't think it was going that horrible. I think I ended up blowing a rear pinion coming out of spinners spinners. So they lost the rear death because it was a high pinion spinning on the coast side. Okay. And, you know, me being new to racing probably had a lot to do with it, you know, not not lifting at the right moment. Yeah, not knowing what your parts can withstand. I think a lot of guys can drive with a high pinion rear rear engine motor setup. But if you don't understand at all, when you come into racing, we can definitely blow it out pretty easy. But I think I think that year, we ended up losing the rear def coming out of spinner. So I didn't have much to go. But I mean, I wasn't. I was, I don't know, probably in the top 20. But you know, nowhere near the lead pack. And they'd walked away. Yeah, but it was definitely an eye opener, it was just, you can imagine, just get a 4400 car, let's go race king of the hammers, or this is now your people think you're dumb. So that's just, you know, it is what it is.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:22:12

But no, you're still with it, though. So at what point did you start deciding you were going to change your car you in by change, I mean, build your own. And by that, I mean, you're self taught at SolidWorks. I've seen your CAD models that you kick out of your plan for your vehicles and the things you're changing. You're really irregular on posting content on Instagram. You're not on Facebook, and I've heard that from you know, Alan Johnson with ultra for hours gives you VR time about you. He's like, he's like, I, you know, Paul is in everything. He's at every race, I take pictures, we go to post content, and then I can't tagging on Facebook. So but but on Instagram, you're very active in like I said, you, you're self taught in every aspect of your life. Everything that we've talked about to this point, out of if that hasn't people haven't caught on to that trend with you is how much you're self taught and how much you push that envelope of. If you don't know it or understand it, you're doing it and figure it out and move forward. From all the way from those hageland trucks to your your little mini jet boat to doing turbo kits for snowmobiles. Now you're an ultra for and you've set that you've set the bar, right? You've set the bar that you didn't you didn't finish. And now you're going going after it. And so somewhere in there, you teach yourself SolidWorks and you start building cars for yourself. What was that Genesis,

Paul Horschel: 1:23:42

I always love to build things. And it was just, I mean, it was just like back in the day like, okay, we want more suspension or Three Wheeler, well, they don't tell us a bunch of Three Wheeler. So get some forks off a motorcycle and put them on there. domain. And so I was always into building things, and then working on things. But I think it probably started at a young age. I remember my first car it was, you know, I was driving down the road and I seen this car under a tarp. And I'm like, I need a car. And I was probably 1314 years old. And I was like, I look like a superhero. So I go knock on the guy's door and say you want to sell that car out there. You know, and he says, it looks at me kind of weird. And he's like, sure he was like how much you want. He's like 500 bucks. So I go up and pull the tarp up on this car. And the roof was smashed down to the, you know, to the beltline. This car and this guy's like you still want to buy this and I was like Yep, we'll be back tomorrow the trailer, you know, I think it's so I took that car and I just took a handyman jack, you know, as a 1314 year old kid and just put it in there between the door sill and the roofs have jacked it up and glued a window in there out of a different car. Because we didn't have, you know, resources to buy nowadays. It's like Oh, you didn't win show but I'm gonna buy it for$100 but Back then we didn't have $100. windshields were hard to find. So you cut one out of another car, put it in there. So, no, but it was just resourcefulness like that. That's always gotten me through. And it's always been if I don't understand something, I have to go out and put my hands on it and do it. It's not, I can't someone can't teach me something in school. I never been able to learn that way. Okay, so that's, that's why College has never been good. Well, like my wife, she can go to college and learn all this stuff in school, but it's just not the way I can learn things. So I started teaching myself SolidWorks and stuff like that when I started working on snowmobiles, I was like, Oh, I need to build an intercooler. I'm gonna build this intercooler on a snowmobile. Because it's, you know, specific measurements and specific machine parts that I need. And I'm like, Well, I can afford to have that guy, go go back, because it's gonna cost me too much money. So well probably go build that myself. So I just started learning, you know, one part at a time, like, you know, build a little bracket. And then pretty soon it was, when I got into ultra for racing, it was, you know, it was easy for me to go out and buy a car. And I definitely didn't want to build my first car. Because it was, I think it was too big of a hurdle to be competitive. I was like, I don't even know anything about cars, you know what I mean? So, probably going to build this off road race car, I looked at him. But then when I bought the car, I just, I just noticed a lot of downfalls in the car. So I was like, Okay, oh, we did a lot of work back car, too. But I was like, Okay, I bought a car from somebody shouldn't be like a super nice race car that's really competitive that I could race for five, six years, at least. But it wasn't that way. So what I kind of figured out what I wanted in a car, or what could be better in a car, I was like, well, I got to chop the back off, I got to chop the front off. But I got chopped the belly out of this car. So I was like, Well, at that point, don't hold the car. So we might as well build a new car. So I ended up designing my own car. And I just read and read books on, you know, suspension stuff, and just trying to learn a lot, mainly just cycling, suspension and SolidWorks just, you know, spending a lot of late nights just doing CAD drawings and, you know, trying to learn what the tire does when you do this and what tire does when you do that what the steering does. And just playing around a lot with it trying to learn it built. The first car though, actually didn't have a I didn't build the front irfs because that's the most technical spot of a car, the steering and irfs so I had bought it from a guy and we grafted that to that car, but I wanted something so technical at that point in my life because I thought you know, I want the best. So I'll have you know, these guys built the best. But it ended up being you know, it was it was too cutting edge. They were had too many fall at the cutting edge is the bleeding edge. Right? Oh, so it had too many things in it like that didn't work right and need to be fixed. We ended up cutting the front of that truck off. We raised it probably for five or six races. But I did not finish one race. With four wheel drive I show up on solo drive and all brand new parts. And by the time I got done with practice, I wouldn't have four wheel drive. So actually, in Glen Helen we actually started the main event in two wheel drive and won that race in two wheel drive. I think that was in 2016 in that truck.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:28:40

I remember people joking about it at some point that you didn't even run real shafts like you ran like you ran like broomsticks painted black to like as a jet like as a joke because the car was to drive

Paul Horschel: 1:28:52

well he just pulled everything out of the truck because we didn't have another choice it's not like I wanted to start the race as an underdog but we obviously showed up to race so it was you know we're showing up to the main event to drive forward by Manuel drive it doesn't matter

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:29:08

as long as you're able to go forward Yeah, it is what matters

Paul Horschel: 1:29:13

definitely in diving

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:29:15

in that stuff though you were that was the two works that was you know the game changers right Didn't your one of your current cars have that game changer intersections in them today? Even though it's you've made iterations?

Paul Horschel: 1:29:29

Yeah, well, it's actually good that the so when we built that car in 2016 it's actually the card Lord Helios right now. It actually had a toolbox built rear deck which is a planetary and then the front deck was a planetary but it wasn't necessarily the diff. That was bad. It was the planetary setup was overspending the lockers too fast and we couldn't get the lockers alive. Okay, that's cool. It was just something you didn't think about was like, okay, lockers are living so why do we need to think about them, but Now you're spinning a locker three and a half times faster than a normal locker. All the ratchets are no wear out springs wear out, everything wears out at it too fast. And then that car, like, crazy swing set type staring at it. It was just what I think we were trying to put more into it than what we knew would work. Now I kind of look at a car as I want, like, I don't want to make too many changes, we want to move forward. But I don't want to, I don't want to sit there for a year or two years and not finish a race. I think if you build something too advanced, I think you're going to be in that same boat. You're just going to be fighting your car trying to get it to work trying to, you know, because it seems like everything we try. There's always a learning curve to it, whether it's a transfer case, or a transmission, or an engine, or you know, anything you try. It's always Oh, this didn't work. So no, I try. We try and focus on what does work. And then how can we make that better? versus, you know, let's make a rocket ship. Why orange? Orange has been a color of mine. Since I was a kid. I've been at Orange snowmobile and an orange car, we actually painted orange. I taught myself how to paint cars. So it was always buying wrecked cars, because you know, those were cheaper. So we would paint them. I just always been drawn to the color orange, nothing special. It's

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:31:26

just a gotcha. Just Just curious. So sometimes people have reasons to talk to y'all Mitch and Josh Markham, Mitch sweat. And in Josh Markham, you have two really amazing guys that that work with you and work for you and help you, you know, accomplish goals. Tell me about those guys, because they're also somewhat mysterious, a little bit in their own in their own rights.

Paul Horschel: 1:31:53

I got some amazing people help me out racing. It's so match. We kind of met probably about six, eight months before this, I'll tell you this whole story. But so he, the two dragon have just come out from ventech. And Mitch was a he had a shop and he was looking at buying one. So they're like, oh, there's this guy, you know, a couple miles away from you that has one. So Mitch, you know, calls me up and look at your tube dragon. You know, I show it to him. And I don't think too much, Mitch, you know, until well, he's, he's, he's a busy guy. So I mean, we keep in contact, but it's like, two weeks. Well, there's a week before nationals. And I think it was 2018 or so. And we I had cut the front end of that to work started off that car, the entire front end, and it's a week before nationals. And I'm like, looking at this car. Like, I gotta make this. And I'm like, Well, I need some more help. I call Mitch. And he comes over. He's like, yeah, I'll be right over. Because he's that kind of guy that just, yeah, whatever you need. I'll I'll be over there right now. I can drop whatever I got going. And I'll be over there to help you. He looks at me and he comes in the garage. And he's just like, the big just look on his face is like he's like this is that you're not gonna get this done. We might as well quit right now. But he showed up to Nationals raced and got it down. I mean, it's just, you know, if you put your mind to something, you pretty much can. I mean, there's some limitations. But

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:33:25

yeah, and he's a hell of fabricator. He's a hell of a wrench. And they'll do anything.

Paul Horschel: 1:33:29

He's been a big asset to the team. I mean, Mitch and Josh both, and we got a couple other amazing guys. That helped us too. But I will talk more on those guys in a bit. But Mitch, he fabricates and works for a guy that runs a razor invest in the desert. He actually raised us in the desert in his old razor for a few years. So he's kind of a guy that has that racing loves racing. I mean, he just, it's just his passion. So he always tells me, you know, it's the lifestyle. So yeah, absolutely. So he just, he just, whatever it takes, he just loves it. And you know, same with Josh. I met Josh, there was a company called midnight four by four in Salt Lake that sells a bunch of off road parts and tubing and all kinds of stuff. They're pretty core shop. And I would buy my tubing, Bill cars and you know, first Josh by like, who's this guy mine all his tubing. But finally He's like, no, if you buy all this tubing, maybe I should come check out your projects. is like, he comes up and checks out. He's like, Can I just come up and help you guys? We're like, sure, you know? So Josh. Josh came up and help. And you know, and

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:34:42

he's in his business. Yeah, yeah. You said it's midnight, four by four. They're in Salt Lake City, right?

Paul Horschel: 1:34:48

That's right. four by four. They're online also. So they sell a bunch of offroad parts. And pretty much anything you need. Plus, guys like Josh that work there. can get Whatever you need to know, they don't even have it, they can source it. They're just resourceful people. But Josh is also a good fabricator, he can well, you know, we can all weld, we could all do all this work. And it just, we kind of split it up like all the the CAD work all the some of the welding, but I just can't do it all. I mean, you can't take a car like that takes two to 3000 hours, like man hours. And for me to accomplish something like that, it would take me a couple of years. So if you want to get a car out, you just have to a few talented people and just, you know, put in the hours when it spits out the other side. But you definitely can't do it by yourself unless you're willing to, you know, get a car two or three years when technology has changed.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:35:49

It moves that fast right now.

Paul Horschel: 1:35:50

Yeah, so but all of us, you know, we kind of take on different different skills and are different tasks and get it done. But those guys are just, it's amazing. Those guys are just when we go racing, you know, I'll think of like, Oh, I don't wanna change the gearing in the truck. And Josh, and those guys, since I come back in, they're like, already, like, do we need to change the gearing? I was like, No, I don't want to pull this out. They're like, over changing the gearing. I mean, they're like, they're, they want to win more than I want to win. Sometimes it seems like you know what I mean, I want to win, but it's like, that's gonna be two, three hours work. But you know, those guys are just like, man, we're gonna win this race. We're gonna pull this, pull this transfer case pose transmission, whatever we got to do, whatever we have parts for, it's going into this truck. We're working all night if we got to. And I think that's the, the mindset, your whole team has to have to actually go out there and accomplish something like, you know, winning a race or doing well. What I think

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:36:49

a lot of guys have said this, we've set it on the show before many times and I think I believe it's sinking in for some but the races one in the shop, man, it's one in prep, and it's one in the pit right before the race before the green flag drops.

Paul Horschel: 1:37:03

Yeah, it's definitely you know, car setup is huge. And you know, now we have a lot of notes, but we're also ultra poor is always changing venues and going to different places. So we don't necessarily have gearing notes or, you know, what we need or what? So we're always changing. I think that was a big problem of with me I Crandon this year as the new truck by go out, you know, instant rev limiter, we all went out tested it, but it felt really good, you know. But I think that's where a lot of people like to take racing to me as a has been my like test ground as like been my proving ground where a lot of people go out like test and Tinker Park and go win a race. But racing is the best test you can put on a car and sit down. Oh, absolutely. So like, we've got Tesla's truck, oh, it feels great. You go out to a race or on the rev limiter? You know, because the race is the only place you're putting that car at 100%. Otherwise, you're, you think it's still great. You're just hitting, you know, doing a donut out in the desert. And you don't even realize you need 10 more miles out the truck.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:38:07

Yeah, there's show up. There's no replacement for green flag time.

Paul Horschel: 1:38:10

Yeah, I think that's why I try and do as many races as possible because I just want that experience, you know, that it's just like you said, there's zero better experience than actual seat time bracing somebody because then you are pushing the limits. You know, everybody's pushing the limits, you your crew, everybody's just there to win the race and it's like is that it's a lot of it's prep, tuning. Unfortunately, we don't the hard thing with me is tuning like these trucks. I almost think that tuning on the track is probably the best

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:38:44

way to tune where you try to get your kind of your dope sheet right you know, you know, the train, you have an idea where you know, at least a starting point. And then you get some practice in and then you get the qualifying and you have different cuts it kind of

Paul Horschel: 1:38:57

the fine tune, right? We look at it as any edge we care to win. I mean, whether it's I will gear the truck, the three mile an hour, you know, so whatever we can do to be more competitive. I mean, whether it's whatever it takes, do you run any like data acquisition on your cars? Yeah, we have the life racing danzi do that hold enzio that's what it was engine package has life racing in it and it has a full data log system on it but it only really records you know engine temperature transfer case temperatures, all those parameters from different weird if the does some like transmission slippage, stuff like that, but we don't have any like shock sensors or anything like that. It's more that's more seat of the pants, like, Oh, I can go faster. This, you know, this is hurt me. I need to adjust this.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:39:51

That's fair. Let's talk about your single seater real quick because I think this is the perfect place to talk about your current single seater that you just took you took nationals with and you didn't have a lot of luck with this year. But you did that the problem is, it's not a problem. It's just, you're there to win. And second place is truly the first loser for you and, and the way you look at your car and this is a brand new car, and you guys race it you COVID through all sorts of Monkey wrenches and everything. But if, as I was talking to Mitch, Mitch and I were discussing how many races you guys did on that car in like a four week or six week period of time, it was like Crandon, NorCal, Moab, Oklahoma, or somewhere in there, like you fit in race. Is that right? It was four in six weeks? Well, I

Paul Horschel: 1:40:43

think we did. Yeah, well, we did two at random. So that was that was up two races and then raised that Moab. And then we went to NorCal. That's right, and then showed up at Nationals, nationals, all of that same car, so is 12345 in a row, on a car, that the big thing with that car, to me was proving it to myself, I think that's the platform that we're going to try and build the new car around. So it was like, going out to New York, I was like, Okay, I can get some more seat time, we got a desert, but that's really not going to prove anything to anybody. So let's go out there. And shell tough to say, guys, you know, we have to go out there. We can't just build another car, unless we know this car can work, then there's definitely been some bugs in it. But we're, you know, definitely getting out of it. But I think, you know, it's a, it's taking what everything we know and putting it into what we can build CNF product about is is pretty cool.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:41:42

Is your goal been to infor looking I don't know if it what it was ever go back in 2014 or 2016. But now that we're in 2020, and you've put together new cars in is one of your future goals is to build and sell some or build raced and sell to feed the habit.

Paul Horschel: 1:42:00

You know, that's been a bit of a challenge. I think I'd love to build people cars. But I don't think people want to pay what it takes to build a car to this level. I don't want to build someone a car at the house level. So but I also don't want to build a car and be competing with that car. At some point. You know what I mean? Unless Unless I can build a better car. Unless I think I could build a better car. So when Lauren asked me to buy that car, I said, Well, I think I'm gonna build a better car. So sure, I'll say that car. But, you know, I've had lots of people ask me to buy these other cars. And I'm just like, you know, like, they're not for sale. It's, it's,

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:42:38

I don't want to race against it. Well,

Paul Horschel: 1:42:40

I mean, the real reason I started building racecars was to so we could evolve the race racing. So I look at things as like, you know, since I designed it all in SolidWorks. I know exactly what kind of camber I know what kind of caster I know what you know what the steering angle, I know what the ni squat is, I know all these numbers into these cars. And then I ride the car. And I'm like, Okay, this is why this car is behaving like this. And then we take it to the next car, and we do a little fine tuning on it to try to make it better. And I think that's been you know, a big reason that we're we do so well his homework, we take that knowledge and versus a lot of guys in the trophy trucks, they're driving the same trophy truck as the other guy. So how do you how do you get that edge over that guy? You know what I mean?

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:43:30

Well, we saw it for many years where it was true, you know? t ones trophies whatever they were it was the class of geyser trucks. Right everyone drove a geyser and then finally we started to see Mason join the party to co build a few you know, Jason bosses truck was built by a couple guys up in the Bay Area. I believe a father son. I mean, so we've seen some trucks come out that weren't all geyser but there was a window there like the maybe Oh 910 1112 somewhere in there where every truck was a it was a geyser built in Phoenix. Yeah,

Paul Horschel: 1:44:08

but if you're if you're doing that, you're just you're racing you have no advantage over the other guy. It's none and then there's some tuning but you have the same truck. So it's a spec series and that's what I think is so cool about ultra for right now is build whatever you want. Right now run what you brung runaway brung so if you think you can build you know your car a little bit different here and make it better here. Try it out. It's up to you to try that but and that's what I think is kept me an ultra for racing is is the, you know, build my own car. idea. I can build something faster than the other guy I you know, I have these ideas and I want to try this and, you know, this car is acting this way. So let's try and lower the roll Center and the trucker. You know, that sort of thing is you know, we're just find him Nice cars to try and make them faster. I don't believe I'm the fastest racer out there. I think I have a better weapon. But I think I'll get to that point where I'm a faster racer every time I race. But you know, a lot of these guys have a lot more experience than I got. The key time is huge.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:45:17

That it is in, you know, we just came out of Thanksgiving, a lot of people were out at the hammers, testing, tuning, pre running, just kind of getting everything kind of shaken out before they do that last tear down and auto prep, or, or what's coming at us full speed like 50 some days from now. Man, you we kind of cranked through everything I want to crank through. One thing I want to go back and touch on is you mentioned you've got some other guys that I want to give you the chance to give a shout out to that work on your cars with you. And for you, I want to make sure that you are able to talk about them. I know the main two but I know you have a an incredible team, it takes more than just you and two guys.

Paul Horschel: 1:45:55

Unfortunately, like some of the a lot of the help that we have is you know guys with other jobs or you know, other obligations, and they come and help on the weekends. Even Josh comes in helps on the weekends, but he usually comes to every race with us. I guess it just takes a lot of little contacts, you know, and then trying to find all these people and put them together, you know, I got a guy, Dave that comes and helps me weld. He's been welding for me for three or four years now. And he can just sit down and just, you can TIG weld for, you know, 12 hours straight. Yeah, and you can just get a lot of stuff done. And I got, you know, my brother in law that came down and help down in Baja, and he brought a few friends from Colorado, and a lot of those guys will come to college with us do and, you know, my sister helps out when she can even if it's just watching the kids, you know, I came of age. You know, my wife, sister, Polly does a lot of help. RACE planning, you know, hotels, all that stuff that you just don't, I mean, it's just a huge pile of stuff that you have to do to go

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:47:01

race. It's a logistical nightmare. And somehow we can solve it.

Paul Horschel: 1:47:06

Yeah, it's just, it's massive. It's like, you know, how are we going to feed all these people? How are we going to sleep? How are we going to get gas? How are we going to do this, you know, so it just takes a pile of people to do it. You know, I got this Lauren's code, the guy that drove was Lauren, Zig, he drove the 250. with Lauren, he's actually co drove with Jeff McKinley and the razor last year, okay, he does helps out a lot him and his brother Kai said I got in bed, man, it's just all these people just are the only way it can happen. If I was the guy trying to race and trying to focus on racing, and, you know, working on my car, and doing all that stuff that just did just too much. It's just not possible, at least to run in that,

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:47:50

you know, that top front pack.

Paul Horschel: 1:47:52

Yeah, it's, it's, I'm pretty blessed with the people that we have, you know, helping out and the whole, you know, mindset of the whole team of people, you know, you know, well, how do you get the job done?

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:48:05

I think that's also a personal reflection on you, right? That, you know, you've proven that you're goal oriented, you want success, you you plan to achieve success, and I think is people like to be successful, right. And so, and you've surrounded yourself with other people that are successful at the same time, and just like going to baja with with Lauren and Dave Cole, you've surrounded yourself with success. They view you as a successful individual and have surrounded themselves with you. Same with, you know, your team, and they all kind of, you know, it's called like, I know, you've worked on a crew like this, especially on a drill rig, it takes you know, if everybody's positive and upbeat, it makes the job go good. I mean, it makes everything like everything's good. But you take that one guy that's negative all the time. He just kind of poisons the well. Yeah, you definitely get those kind of people around. Yeah, not not not not in this environment. Well, I'd written down you know, I always hit the spot, you know, in the show where I was asked about the future, and I'll tell you what, my future I have four bullet points and says we've, we've hit some and I wrote this before ba right. And it was when baja done. You did that. Congratulations again. I think that's so freakin cool. So epic that you you guys pulled that off. And the way you did spectacular, well done. The next one was when kale Ah, I mean, you're there, right, you're in the hunt.

Paul Horschel: 1:49:26

That's the next goal. I mean, it's just, that's the next thing on the plate. You know, it's just a lot of work. I mean, a lot of I think a lot of people look at racing from the sidelines and think of it looks fun. You know, I get a lot of people that tell me Oh, is it a lot of fun. And it's enjoyable, but it's more of that. It's more of a challenge. I think. And I think that's that's kind of our whole team focus is this is a challenge and we're trying to, you know, win this challenge.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:49:55

I mean, rise to the occasion.

Paul Horschel: 1:49:57

Yeah, bah bah, I mean, those guys were Working on the truck fell three in the morning, three nights in a row before you know what racing, you know, then visually left the starting line. I mean, really, all we did was non stop work. I mean, pre running work on the pre run or work on the race car, just keeping everything alive. And you know, these guys just don't stop, you know, it's like, okay, we need to do that. Yep, I

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:50:21

got that this guy, you know, everybody just pitching in, it's just, everybody's in it for that, for the win. Well, and when you talk to people outside of this circle, they look at you, you know, when you talk to other humans, other humans, other humans are like, you work really, really hard to have fun. Why do you work so hard to have fun? Let's just go to a beach and lay around on the beach. Like, that's fun, right? Well, it's not challenge.

Paul Horschel: 1:50:49

Yeah, it's there's no challenge in that. So, I mean, it would probably be relaxing, but I've never been the kind of guy to go relax on a beach. And then this is kind of my world. So I mean, it seems like the harder we work and the more we got to stay up till three in the morning working, the more we win. So whatever it takes to

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:51:12

make sacrifices are worth it. And then the next the next bullet point I had was build another new car question mark. And it sounds like you guys are I mean, you're you're you're nonstop. So I assume you guys are cutting something up and moving forward. What's your what's your kind of window of opportunity on rolling that thing out? sometime? Late 2021?

Paul Horschel: 1:51:34

Well, I plan is I was planning to chop the front off of my to see cards, I just wanted the ball ha, but I started thinking about it. And I was like, well, I chopped the front of my plan was okay, I'll chop the front end off that car. You know how the front irfs I get the pre run around. But then if I got to build a pre run, I got beldholm car. So if I'm gonna build a whole new car, I might as well hold the racecar. Right. So that kind of, you know, my thought process kind of changed there. And I definitely don't want to do it before. Okay, we were going to change a few things on the truck. Khaleda shear is going to be kind of, it's going to be two races, because they're going to do the desert race the week before. And then they're going to do cailleach. You need two cars down there. Right. So we don't know which car is going to race which will be down there both to race both races. But it all depends on the course. But I'm kind of thinking I'm in a race to see car in the desert race. And I'm going to race the single seat car on correlators. Yeah, I think we'll have to see how, how the course looks when it all comes out. But I think that's kind of what we're thinking right now. But once that is done, we're starting on this new car by building you know, front end components and stuff like that right now. But we're not planning on to have it done until simply Basheer. That'll give us some leads. I just don't want to push these guys. I mean, they've been working so hard. And we got to have a little family time. It's just it's just too much

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:53:10

enjoy their Christmas bonuses, you know, jelly of the Month Club or something like that.

Paul Horschel: 1:53:15

Yeah, I mean, we still got a lot of work to do before king of the hammers. I mean, we have two cars and a prerunner they're all you know, pretty much trashed.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:53:25

Are you so are you still pre running that pinhole car,

Paul Horschel: 1:53:28

I am pre running the pedal car. My my goal is, would be to sell the pedal car and use the tusi truck as the new pre render the governing truck.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:53:39

That makes sense. Oh, it makes sense to me. Anyway,

Paul Horschel: 1:53:41

another run of the pedal fire is just I like to drive my own stuff, but it's definitely done its purpose. It's gonna be nice. Just driving our own stuff. It just, I don't know, to me, it feels better. You know, like I build this truck.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:53:55

Now there's a confidence factor and there's a there's a 100% known factor, right? Yeah, you know this like the back of your hand. And then man my last question my last bullet point for the future was what are your thoughts on what you know what's the future for ultra for what are the next steps like where where's the technological advances going to come the push what we do and what you do today to the next level? As in cars Yeah,

Paul Horschel: 1:54:25

well I think ultra for the problem with ultra for is it's so diverse. That you almost need three race cars. You know, you need a short course car you need a desert car and then cailleach car and all three of those cars don't add up into one car because your short cars car you don't have an extra guy in there or college to help you read notes or help you when in turn anything like that. It does a car is a little too big for tail ah because you know I got these obstacles depends on that course. But you know, your wheelbase might be too big, you might have, you know, too much weight carrying around. But then you go out in the desert, and you want a big, heavy car that can cause a lot of fuel and spare tires and parts and be comfortable. And so if you put all that into perspective, you need three different race cars to be of the best of everything. So I think we're gonna do a little convertible work on this new car where it can solve the problem of two race cars. But the also for the way I see it is you just need reliable parts I can get beat on and handle, you know, handle these kind of races that they're doing. And then he also I think sharks are going to be a big part of it. I think fox is coming out with some live out tuning that you'll

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:55:48

see that co H and we've had some discussions about that. I think that's, I think that's really cool tech, I think that's the next step. Right?

Paul Horschel: 1:55:58

Yeah, I think they're on the leading edge of developing that stuff. And I think that's gonna be a big benefit. You know, tires. I think we're on probably the best tire out there. I think there could be a benefit. A little bit larger tire. Okay, all right. 42, or move into a 42? Yeah, because I mean, that's the next step, right. But you got to have the car that can handle that. But if you're going to 42 now you can, you know, get up that ledge a little easier. Get over this, but the problem has been wheels, you know, then move into a 20 inch wheel. And then the wheel is too big. It's too weak. So, but I think there could be some something there with it a little bit bigger tire, maybe a 41. Anything. Yeah, better than, than the other guy.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:56:48

Well, you're wearing a NATO hat. So I would say maybe, maybe the conversation needs to flow through through like Chris Corbett enough. I mean, like, we need a 41 for competition. Help us out here.

Paul Horschel: 1:56:59

It's just so hard to know. Yeah,

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:57:01

we know. You know, we absolutely know. Well, man, Paul, I was so worried is not the right word. But I'd really wanted to interview you for a long time. I've had you on this for a long time. I didn't know you very well. And you're real quiet. And, and guys like wil Gentile told me Hey, man, he's a hard interview. Man. I had, I've had a great night with you. I have a great session. Did we cover everything that that you wanted to cover?

Paul Horschel: 1:57:29

I think so. I think we talked for quite a long time. We did this is probably the longest

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:57:33

one I've ever had. But you know, you got to make the finale, you know, for for this season. You know, you got to make it good. And, and I think you absolutely did that you filled in a lot of blanks for a lot of folks, including myself. I don't think I had anything you know, left out there that didn't get answered. I'd been told you are an interesting fella. And listening to your stories. You know, interesting is not the word I have to I would use to describe you. You are but I found you. I find you to be super inspirational. I find your drive and your ability to you know, keep your eye on the prize to finesse and move keep moving the ball forward and progressing. No matter what it is refreshing. I find that inspirational I found that your super ear super humble guy, which is super cool. I mean a lot of people no for for our, like I said the birds of a feather flock together. But you know from your humble beginnings in Alaska, to you know a house with no electricity, but running water if you only turn the generator on to, you know, drilling, you know, core wells all over all over the world and some crazy stories there too. Now, living in Park City with your own ski lifts in your backyard and racing at the upper echelon of offroad rock sports is super inspirational man. From me, I'm sure from other people, but for me, thank you. Thank you for sharing your story with me. I had I had no idea you were as cool and as awesome. As you are. I'd heard stories, but now I know for myself. And hopefully now everyone else will hear this as well. I caught you

Paul Horschel: 1:59:09

the most serious man and ultra for hopefully I don't think I'm too mysterious anymore. I mean, it's, I mean, I'm just a normal guy.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:59:17

I just, you know, I just love racing. Just the whole atmosphere of you know, competition has just been what has driven me my whole life and going down that road or just trying to win races. You know, here in a couple weeks, eight weeks, six weeks, however many weeks it is now because it's coming up so fast. hammers. I'll stop and see you. We'll have some waters together some coffees if it's early in the morning, and we'll figure it out, man. All Thank you for coming on the talent tank. I appreciate you.

Paul Horschel: 1:59:47

Alright, appreciate it.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:59:48

I'll see you later. All right, guys. I hope you guys appreciate this episode, man. Paul horschel. All right. We're out.

Intro/Outro: 1:59:56

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