The Get Ready Money Podcast with Joy Loverde and Cathy Sikorski: Why You Need A Plan for Caregiving

On this episode of The Get Ready Money Podcast, I was joined by Joy Loverde and Cathy Sikorski who are both authors and speakers to talk about changing the way we think about money and caregiving. 

Here’s what we discussed: 

• Plan, plan and then go ahead and plan more
• Why quality of life is the most important thing. 
• Asking for advice is a great way to start the conversation 
• It’s okay to say that you won’t be the caregiver 
• Where you live matters

Joy Loverde is the best-selling author of The Complete Eldercare Planner and Who Will Take Care of Me When I’m Old?  A seasoned keynote speaker and brand ambassador for the senior-living industry, Joy’s appearances include the Today show, CBS Early Show, ABC News, and NPR. She is quoted in the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, Time Magazine, and others. Joy works with the senior-housing industry and other professionals as a mature-market consultant.


Cathy Sikorski, Esq. a Speaker, Elder Lawyer, Author and Media Guest unravels the complex financial and legal problems in the caregiving crisis. Cathy uses her own caregiver experience and expertise to educate, entertain and elevate the conversation around work, money, aging and caregiving. In October 2021, Corner Office Books released her latest book 12 Conversations: How to Talk to Almost Anyone about Long-Term Care Planning.

Connect with Joy Loverde: 

Website: https://elderindustry.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joyloverde/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100083485643213

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joyloverde/

Connect with Cathy Sikorski:

Website: https://cathysikorski.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathysikorski24/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@cathy_sikorski

Books: 

Joy Loverde:

The Complete Eldercare Planner, Revised and Updated 4th Edition: Where to Start, Which Questions to Ask, and How to Find Help (Amazon)

Who Will Take Care of Me When I'm Old?: Plan Now to Safeguard Your Health and Happiness in Old Age (Amazon)

Cathy Sikorski: 

Who Moved My Teeth?: Preparing For Self, Loved Ones And Caregiving (Amazon) 

12 Conversations: How To Talk to Almost Anyone About Long-Term Care Planning (Amazon) 

Showering With Nana: Confessions Of A Serial Caregiver (Amazon)

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

Are you looking to get ready, be prepared and transform your financial future? Then you've come to the right place. This is the Get Ready Money Podcast with Tony Stewart, where Tony has insightful conversations with financial experts who are changing the way we think about money. Catch up on the latest financial trends and hear practical advice from Tony and his expert guests so you can build healthy habits that work, Be empowered with tips for implementing small changes that can have a big impact on your financial future. So sit back and get ready to hear from today's guest.

Speaker 2: 0:48

Welcome to the Get Ready Money podcast changing the way we think about money. I'm pleased to be joined today by Joy Laverde and Kathy Sikorsky. Joy and Kathy are both authors and speakers. In this episode, we'll be discussing how we can change the way we think about money and caregiving. Joy and Kathy, welcome to the Get Ready Money podcast. Thanks for being here today, Delighted. Thank you. Yeah, excited for this conversation. So you know, as this is a question I always start with tell us a little bit about yourselves, or what are your origin stories. Joy, you want to go first.

Speaker 4: 1:26

Sure, I'm an author of two books One is on caregiving and the other is on how we're going to take care of ourselves as we age. And my origin began over 35 years ago, mostly in corporate America, helping employees deal with the juggling of work and family.

Speaker 3: 1:44

And I am an elder lawyer by trade in Pennsylvania, but mostly I spend my time speaking to groups, hopefully in corporate America. I think that's where they need the most help right now. With the work and caregiving issue, I have written three books, two of which really concentrate on the focus of how to prepare and plan for this caregiving and how to have these conversations about caregiving with the people in our lives that it's important to have them with, from our families to our friends, to the professionals, to our work. So that's why I'm excited to be here.

Speaker 2: 2:21

Yeah, no, fantastic, and I think you know I mean. This leads right into the first question is why is caregiving often overlooked in the planning process?

Speaker 3: 2:47

you go to a lawyer when you have a crisis.

Speaker 3: 2:48

So, even though my form of law, elder law and often people confuse estate lawyers with elder lawyers we don't quite do exactly the same thing, although it certainly crosses over. But in elder law, where we're dealing with these issues around caregiving because that's really what it is people come to us in a crisis, and so a big part of our work is educating the public, which is why I've really shifted my work to, rather than personal client work, to educating the public about how planning is so important, so that when the crisis comes and Joy will tell you what the crisis is is when someone gets into a situation where they need caregiving, where caregiving is either ultimately going to happen or it's already happening a sudden stroke or a diagnosis, et cetera, et cetera but nobody wants to talk about these things, right? Nobody wants to talk about the neighbor's dog might bite you, and when that happens, then they'll go to a lawyer. It's the same thing, and so I believe, as professionals all three of us, as professionals it behooves us to be the educators.

Speaker 4: 3:48

Planning is not fun in this arena, and so the more we can coax people and convince them that planning actually makes their lives better, the better off everyone will be a similar experience and, having been speaking with people who are working full time and have parents, I have found this is what they tell me is they don't plan because they don't know it's possible to plan, so they so. So someone once said said to me it wasn't until I saw your elder care planner that I understood that there were things I could do because my parents weren't sick and they were young and there was nothing to do. And then when I read that there was plenty to do, I connected the dots and I realized that's how you plan. So it was interesting. There was no concept of the knowledge that planning is possible, but we know it is. So it's our job as advocates to say well, let me help you with the planning process, not the caregiving process, the planning process, not the caregiving process, the planning process. And that's what Kathy and I do.

Speaker 3: 5:09

And it's such a great question, tony, because I love what you just said, joy that people don't even know that they should be planning. So how do we then get that into the world? Because it's the same with financial planning, right, would anybody say to us. Well, I didn't know that financial planning was a thing.

Speaker 4: 5:33

Right? No, they don't. So how do we do it? Well, it's a sensitive time, right? We're talking to people who are already overwhelmed. Adult children are already un-overwhelm with work and other personal and professional responsibilities. So one of the ways that I encourage people is just begin the process of talking about money. Has it occurred to you that there's a possibility that, as you sit here today and you do your own life, that your parents are on the other side running out of money, and who do you think is going to pick up the tab? So my approach is to present to them a reality and a real situation that will say well, what do you mean? They're running out of money, they're fine, so why don't you find out?

Speaker 3: 6:28

Love it Awesome.

Speaker 2: 6:31

Yeah Well, you both covered so much. I think it's important. I mean, there's so many considerations. One is, when you talk about financial planning, I think those of us in the financial planning arena tend to overestimate how many people understand what a financial planner is. Most people don't have access to a financial planner. I mean, we know many financial planners have AUMs, minimum AUMs of $500,000 or a million. You know it's not very diverse, so I think that's that's also part of it. Most people don't have access to a planner. So you know, as we talk about, this is how you know if we are a planner, but maybe somebody like an insurance agent who has access. Everybody has an auto insurance agent or a homeowner's insurance agent. How can those people start to have conversations? And people are actually talking to everyday Americans?

Speaker 3: 7:30

So I love this question because you know, tony, every time I write an article, every time I do a podcast, every time I have the opportunity to stand in front of, quite frankly, one or more people, my very first thing, especially in the professional arena, is we need to be collaborators. We will do the best for our clients whether we have one, 10, or 100, if we realize that there are many professionals insurance, legal, geriatric, financial who can help our clients. We can't know everything and we can't do everything, and so the more we help our clients get to all these cross professionals, the better we are as professionals ourselves. Right, and this only raises us as the person that people are going to go to. She took care of me, she got me the help that I needed to plan. She brought to my attention that this is about not just you but your parents, because that's going to affect you, as Joy just said. So, yeah, your insurance guy should be having this conversation.

Speaker 4: 8:33

Yeah. So one of the things that I'm finding here in Chicago anyway with with attorney firms, is they're opening up little offices within their office and they're putting in their aging life plan professionals. They're putting in long-term care insurance people. They're putting in financial planners in the same office and say, okay, when we're done here talking about your will, you're going to go down the hall and you're going to talk to Joe about your money and then you're going to talk to Nancy about your mother, and they're starting to fill in the partnerships right on the same site. Isn't that a great idea? It's awesome.

Speaker 4: 9:11

The thing that irks me is most businesses don't operate like that. These firms are few and far between. So if you are a professional and you have extra office space, put someone else in there who is a partner of yours. You say, hey, go down this hall. Like you said, I don't know everything, but she does or he does and we're going to take good care of you. The whole thing, not just legal or financial, Exactly.

Speaker 3: 9:44

Exactly. I can think of a handful in my area that do that, and that's exactly your point, right, joy, that it's a handful of people who proactively take this course, which is I'm going to lead you to all these other experts, right?

Speaker 4: 10:01

Why is that, Kathy? Why don't professionals partner up?

Speaker 3: 10:05

I have an answer for that. It's because they don't think there's enough pie. There's plenty of pie. We can all get a piece of pie, right, and, quite frankly, the more maybe you'll get less of this pie. But if you, if you're very happy as the pie holder, you're going to tell your kids to give them some of their pie and then they're going to tell their friends these are my professionals, you should give them some of your pie. There's plenty of pie.

Speaker 3: 10:32

It just might not be where you think it is, because if you are a full service provider, in that you don't give all the services but you send people to Joy or Tony after they get their legal documents right, you're going to be a person that says she took care of me, she's the one who sent me to Joy. Call Kathy first. She knows all the people. That's the kind of calls that we get right. So lawyers aren't great about this either. Financial advisors are really bad and, quite frankly, so are lawyers. I tell people all the time call a lawyer as a financial advisor. Tell them you have clients that you really want them to meet and form a relationship.

Speaker 2: 11:20

I think you said something there. He is forming a relationship, I know, with life insurance agents. They're often just looking for referrals from other professionals just to sell something rather than to buy the valuable service. I mean, have you both run into that?

Speaker 4: 11:37

All day long.

Speaker 3: 11:40

You know, I find long-term care insurance people to be a little bit different. They seem to be a little bit different in that they are much more focused on the whole long-term care issue and process. I have an affinity for that group of people, you know, because they understand that long-term care has just too many moving parts right, it's not just selling a policy and they want those clients and their client families because it is about the family to be happy that this policy or whatever is working. How about you, joy? What are you finding?

Speaker 4: 12:20

Absolutely. I have several long-term care experts in my back pocket because that is an arena that I cannot speak about as well as they can. I cover it from an umbrella point of view. Educate the financial planners and the attorneys in saying you and I need to work together because the long-term care insurance industry is changing dramatically. There's all kinds of new things coming up all the time and that these people are very much aware and excellent advisors when it comes to money.

Speaker 3: 13:05

And the reason is demographically we're getting old and sick and that costs money, right. And so if you can Put that into people's heads and I just mean people that old and sick and money all go together, and then guide them along that path, you are going to be one of the top notch advisors in this field.

Speaker 4: 13:32

Right, right. As we you know, the bottom line is partner up.

Speaker 3: 13:39

Agreed One hundred percent is partner up.

Speaker 2: 13:45

Agreed, A hundred percent. Yeah, that's a great point. So you know, as we go there, you know what's pivot a little bit is how can people start the conversation on caregiving.

Speaker 4: 13:52

You mean as a, as a person who has parents and grandparents or is a professional.

Speaker 2: 14:00

Yeah, I guess maybe let's break it down, you know, just for anybody I would think, is you know whether you're an advisor, whether you're a family member? I mean, it is a little bit different as an advisor, but to me it's still the same thing is you have to talk about it, and it's one of those things nobody wants to talk about because nobody wants to face the mortality.

Speaker 4: 14:20

No matter if you're a professional or no matter if you're a family member. My advice is to get the word care out of the conversation. The reason is is no one thinks about anybody needing care, including themselves. But there is one thing everybody wants, and how I introduce the top, the sensitive topics, is by talking about quality of life. So so it is quality of life, no matter what happens. How are you going to finance a quality of life If you live, you're really well and you live to 120. You live, you're really well and you live to 120. How are you going to finance a quality of life if you want to live on an island? How are you going to?

Speaker 4: 15:14

But you start the conversation with what is your picture of a quality of life as you age and how are you going to finance it? And it's just everybody's open to that conversation. Nobody is open to. You know, what are you going to do if you get sick? I just don't go there, and so it this. The ultimate, you know. End of the conversation ends up in the same place. But I don't use the C word. I just used the C word. I just jumped Care word.

Speaker 3: 15:44

This is two different conversations, obviously, one with professionals and one with family. Although professionals guess what? They got families too. One of the things that I tell people just generally is, especially if you are having a problem with your parents getting them to get on board with planning in any kind of having a problem with your parents getting them to get on board with planning in any kind of way getting powers of attorney, getting wills, getting anything Tell them that you are doing this for you. You are going to go to the lawyer and you would like them to come with you, not for them. This is not a conversation about them. You want them to hear. Or you're going to go to the financial advisor, or you're going to go talk to Joy. You're going to talk to somebody about this issue, whatever your burning issue is, because my guess is you haven't done it either.

Speaker 2: 16:30

Let's go there.

Speaker 3: 16:31

And so take them to the lawyer, sit down with that lawyer and say, okay, we're going to do my powers of attorney, my will, my mom can hear everything, I have no secrets. Right, and let them see the planning phase without pressuring them to do it, because the other thing is peer pressure. Quite frankly, your best friend, helen, told me that she went to see XYZ lawyer. How about, if we go, because Helen recommended that, right when, especially your parents, if they're older, when they see that their peers are doing it I mean it's no different than you know our kids tell us, my kids tell me something that they saw on the internet, which is something I've been telling them for six weeks, but now they're going to do it because some internet person told them to do it. It's the same, and the key here, obviously, is just starting the conversation.

Speaker 3: 17:28

So I love Joy's idea of let's just talk about your quality of life, let's just talk about it. I mean that could be any person. That could be a financial advisor, that could be an insurance person, that could be a lawyer, right? Any of those people. So that's obviously a family thing. Peer to peer, again, I say go to a lawyer and get your documents and, while you're there, say listen, I have clients. I happen to be a financial advisor, I'm an insurance salesperson. What you're doing here is important for my clients and what I'm doing is probably important for your clients. Can we have a conversation about that?

Speaker 2: 18:23

Most members of financial services industry know very little about caregiving or things outside their own scope of expertise. But I think the other thing too is, as a professional, if you say to a client, like, get your will done or your trust done, and the client says, well, who did you do? What did you do? And you said, well, you know, I really haven't done it for myself, you know, but I think it's great for you, the client's not going to take it that seriously and not make it a priority. So I think you know, for the advisors out here listening, that's wonderful advice Do it for yourself so you can see the process, and then you can pass it on to your clients and it's going to be so much more meaningful and impactful to tell your clients like this is my caregiving plan, this is what worked, that's how you, you know, connect with people.

Speaker 3: 19:07

Tony, I love that too. I mean in conjunction with joy, like what is your quality of life? You can say this is my caregiving plan, because I I've been thinking about this for myself or for my mom or you know, whatever's happening in your life, making it personal is really a really good idea.

Speaker 4: 19:26

Yep. Another tip would be to ask for advice, which is what I did. My mom remarried to someone, of course, who wasn't my dad and he didn't know me very well, and vice versa. But my mom was very happy and I had to figure out a way to better understand how I could help them should and if anything should happen to them financially. And he had no reason to trust me whatsoever. So I began to form a relationship with him by sitting down on the big easy chairs when he was watching a football game and you know he had. We had a couple of beers between us and I would say hey, bill, you know, it looks like you're doing pretty good here and I'm just starting to think about my retirement. Do you have any tips for me? Well, he just he was so forthcoming and so so delighted that I would ask him about how to plan financially for retirement. And sure enough, he gave me some really good advice and he began to trust me more. Now, this did not take a short period of time. It took about three years.

Speaker 3: 20:37

Right.

Speaker 4: 20:37

But I, we really formed a relationship because I asked for for advice, right. But I, we really formed a relationship because I asked for for advice Right, and I really needed it and sure enough it was. It was wonderful, but that's what happened. So you're, so your parents, if they remarry and you're with you, you don't know these people and we don't know our parents that well anymore after we move out of the house anyway. So asking advice is another great way to begin these conversations.

Speaker 3: 21:06

And start now. Like, start now. If it's going to take a long time, fine. The other thing that my mother's very ill right now. She's 95 and she's going through a tough time and I am so fortunate and glad that I took the time to go meet her financial advisor about five years ago, just said come on, mom, I got to talk to her. I want her to know who I am so that when I call, if anything ever happens, she's like oh yeah, I know you. It's not crazy. You're not some stranger who's saying I'm now in charge of all your mom's money, right? Every relationship this is all about relationships, isn't it? Every relationship you build is going to benefit you and your clients in this tough, tough crisis driven time to go home, you have to be in person, you have to meet these people.

Speaker 4: 22:06

You have to meet your parents, friends, their advisors, their neighbors. At some point you need to be on site so that you can, as you say, form relationships with everybody in their lives. I hear all day long people talking about caregiving from a distance and I say when's the last time you were there in person? And then they say it's been a long time. And I'll say well, does it surprise you that things are not going well? Because usually they're complaining about something and I say you've got to go home, you've got to see them, be with them, spend time with them. Maybe it's a long weekend, whatever, but it doesn't happen by magic if you're not, if you don't make the effort to go there in person and form relationships.

Speaker 3: 22:52

And let me just add that that's regardless of where they live. Even if they're in a facility, if they're in a, in a you know, a community, if they're in an assisted living, you still need to go. You need to go.

Speaker 2: 23:03

Yeah, that's a really good one and advocate for them. If you're not there, you can't advocate for them or advocate for them effectively.

Speaker 3: 23:15

Not as much as if they've seen you and met you.

Speaker 4: 23:19

That's right. That's right Because it is tricky If you're meeting an attorney or a financial planner, they won't necessarily talk to you if they never met you, or with your parents sitting by your side saying, it's okay, you could talk to her, she's my daughter, but the parent really has to give you the blessing. It's like a relationship HIPAA form right, you've got to have your parent there saying he's got to be in their HIPAA pocket. I think that's a new elder lot of term, right, right I like it.

Speaker 2: 23:59

Should we trademark it? Yes, we should.

Speaker 4: 24:04

Yeah, put a copyright on that one, Kathy.

Speaker 2: 24:08

Yeah, so, yeah, yeah. So to switch gears, you know, I mean, because each of us is on an aging journey is what mindset should we have about the aging journey? Because I think understanding our own aging journey will also help us. You know, as we've been talking about with other members of our families and other professionals.

Speaker 3: 24:27

I think Joy hit the nail on the head our quality of life. It's pretty much that. This is exactly what I'm experiencing right now with my mother-in-law, my mother, who's 95, who's, I told you, not well, but our biggest focus right now is her quality of life, Whatever that means. Does that mean music? Does that mean television? Does that mean audio books? Right, it's as simple as that. But when it boils down to that, you get very, very aware. And wouldn't it be awesome if, as Joy has told us, you could be aware of that long before.

Speaker 4: 25:02

Oh, I love this because so many adult children go to their parents like their parents are a problem to solve and they never, ever stop talking about how you feel Did you eat right? Are you sleeping? You know that's not our job as adult children. Our job is to facilitate the happiness and the quality of life for our parents and siblings and spouses, or whoever we're caring for in the moment, and so that at some point, once the problems are solved, we begin to enjoy each other's company on a whole different level.

Speaker 2: 25:39

I love that we could probably just drop the mic and walk off right now that really is a mic drop.

Speaker 3: 25:43

Thank you very much. I thought your pocket was good.

Speaker 4: 25:48

I mean when my mom lived with us in a very cool arrangement. We live in a high rise and she moved into an apartment that we bought for her and so she had her independence and I would go down there every night and watch Wheel of Fortune with her, and that's when the conversations about the big conversations would take place over watching TV and just casual. And I learned, you know when, when I would see her just be so relaxed and feeling safe and needed that, that this, this is what quality of life looks like. We're not talking about a lot of, we're not even talking about the application of money here. We're talking about relating, having fun, laughing together, watching TV together. It's very simple. Life gets real simple, doesn't it, kathy?

Speaker 1: 26:43

Really.

Speaker 4: 26:43

When you get older and it's just. They just want you to sit by their side and hold their hand or just watch TV with them. It's not complicated, but quality of life is everything to them.

Speaker 2: 26:58

Yeah, that's yeah, that that really says so much. So you know I had another question. You know we didn't really talk about this, but I know both of you deal with this, as you know red flags, elder abuse, elder financial abuse. So you know, as caregivers or people who you know are facilitating the caregiving processes, you know what red flags can you watch out for. How can you? What are some landmines you can avoid?

Speaker 3: 27:27

It's so funny that you bring that up, because I'm working on a presentation about money and caregiving and I just made a note to myself to not forget about scams, because elders are so and, by the way, elders is a dubious term. You don't have to be old to be taken by a scam. These scammers are so good at what they do and we are so, especially especially nice old ladies. But we're so, you know, tend to be nice and kind and want to think we're doing the right thing or social security is calling us, so we panic. You know that kind of thing. I don't know that you can do anything except tell your loved ones from from that, from an elder abuse scam point of view that they must always, always, always, call a trusted person when they think something is going to happen. Fortunately, I finally got that drilled into my mom and my aunt and a couple other people who are important in my life. At least call me first. Call me before you do anything, and I'll make sure that this is the deal. So a trusted person is great if you have that.

Speaker 3: 28:39

As far as abuse from a trusted person, that's a tough one and this is why I think it's difficult and it's not going to be what you think it is. Sometimes I think the pendulum has swung a little bit too far the wrong way. Caregiving is hard. Caregiving is frustrating. Caregiving is hard. Caregiving is frustrating. Caregiving is mentally and physically difficult on a caregiver and sometimes and I'm not saying abuse like they beat someone or whatever, but sometimes they may just not be in their best possible place and you've got to be someone who can maybe step in with grace but not be so quick to judge. And I think we have to always keep in mind that caregivers may be the ones who need grace and guidance and help in the toughest times before abuse happens. And perhaps, rather than looking at the elder, maybe we should be looking at the caregiver and trying to help them get what they need to stay safe and sane themselves.

Speaker 4: 29:53

And I love what you're saying, kathy. When I give talks to rooms full of caregivers, I also say it's okay to say no, but we have to have a plan if we do plan to say no, or at least a plan B, because the stresses do cause certain. They have a ripple effect that we don't anticipate when we begin the journey, that we don't anticipate when we begin the journey. So I was also thinking about your question, tony.

Speaker 4: 30:27

From a technology point of view, which is where a lot of these things happen, it all looks so friendly when they're on the phone or they're on their computer and someone sends them that scam email and they they do something crazy and stupid. So to to, like you said, kathy, to somehow let them know that the world is not safe on the phone and the computer and that if they will please just do nothing and run something by us, we can assess whether or not they're in the process of being scammed. It's a difficult conversation, not from having the conversation, but none of us really know what a good scam looks like until it's in our face. It's kind of. So that's the problem. Like you said, they're very creative. I get, I get those emails every day.

Speaker 3: 31:38

Every day.

Speaker 4: 31:38

You better, you better, you know you better. Look at this and that. And they have the logo of the company.

Speaker 3: 31:43

Right.

Speaker 4: 31:43

The whole nine yards. So what can we do is to help our parents and elders understand that they can trust us to guide them through those times where we really don't understand what's going on. But we can help them. It's a crazy world out there and a lot of it has to do with technology.

Speaker 3: 32:11

Yeah, just a little cute little aside. Social Security put out a couple days ago a big, huge scam alert, just in general, just in general. We won't call you, we won't. You know all the things that they will and will not do. And please tell your families and you know, because even social security knows that they're being used right as a scam.

Speaker 2: 32:32

Yeah, and I think you both bring up something that I think is the scariest part of it is that it often is the caregiver or family members who are unfortunately part of the financial abuse or the overall elder abuse. The other thing that I've seen and I think, kathy, you brought this up, is the isolation factor is that you know they become the elder's friend, then they socially isolate them or at least isolate them. Oh, oh, you don't want to call. You know your kids about this, don't? You don't need to bother them about this. Or you know it's, it's not a big deal, you know you can trust me. Or you know they put on the time pressure. It's like, yeah, you don't have time to call your daughter, you know, because you need to do this today. You know steel's going to go away today.

Speaker 3: 33:22

So it's like that makes it hard. This really brings up what Joy is really good at, ever so much more than me which is solo aging, right, which is so scary Because you have to work a little bit harder to find trustworthy people Right, because you have to work a little bit harder to find trustworthy people right, that you really can depend on to be your power of attorney, to handle your finances, to know about what your financial situation is, but actually no different than family members, who are also maybe unsavory.

Speaker 4: 34:03

You know there are organizations that we can call the fraud 800 numbers, 911 for fraud and that if you are a solo ager and you are questioning something, there are advisors that are on the other end of a telephone 24-7. Awesome. I spent years researching all kinds of resources in both of my books. That doesn't cost anything and there's lists and lists of places that we could go for help for many, many different reasons and getting scammed and you know wondering about is this real? I don't know If you don't have anybody to call in your immediate circle there are 800 numbers for this Joy.

Speaker 2: 34:58

would you mind sharing some of those so I could put them in the show notes? Well, Tony, I don't have them on the top of my head right now, oh no, no, no, I mean, I mean later, by email you gotcha so for people watching and listening is those will be in the show notes, you know just a quick tip.

Speaker 4: 35:14

All you have to do is Google fraud prevention and, and in your browser, and it will pop up. So that would be how I would do it, because people are listening, because we're on a podcast that's international. You could find help wherever you live around the world 100, 100, um.

Speaker 2: 35:35

So you know that's. Yeah, this is such a tough area. Um, you know, as we go through this, there's also a lot of myths about caregiving. What myths are you both trying to break about caregiving?

Speaker 3: 35:49

Well, there's so many, but I'll stick with myths and money since that's really our focus. Medicare does not pay for a nursing home.

Speaker 2: 36:01

Yes.

Speaker 4: 36:02

Thank you, kathy, and now we can drop the mic.

Speaker 3: 36:06

Yeah, now drop the mic.

Speaker 4: 36:08

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 36:09

Nobody's paying for your mom's nursing home except you and your mom. That's right. And then, if you become truly destitute, because those are the rules, then Medicaid might come in. But remember, the rules are long and complicated, which is why elder lawyers have jobs about how that has to happen, but quite frankly, it really does in fact lead you to destitution. So Medicare does not pay for a nursing home. That's a myth or other related services, yeah.

Speaker 2: 36:49

Joy. What do you think? What myth are you trying to break about caregiving and money and aging and money?

Speaker 4: 36:54

This has to do with solo aging. Actually, when we are out of family, everybody's died and moved away. When we are out of family, everybody's died and moved away and we are now on the road of relationships with people. We're not related to that. As we commit to having relationships, we don't really take it as far as we need to, and that is that no one in our immediate circle is going to need me for caregiving services, because this is not what I'm in the game for here, and nothing could be further than the truth.

Speaker 4: 37:26

As we age and age with friends and people we're not related to. There is an underlying theme going on here. It's like well, eventually things may change. Am I up for the task of being a caregiver to someone I'm not related to? No one thinks about it. That's the problem, but with someone like me talking about it all the time now I'm beginning to see momentum that solo agers are now having discussions with their friends about the possibility of caring for each other in old age, about the possibility of caring for each other in old age Joy.

Speaker 2: 38:03

I think you hit on something really really important Like having an accountability partner for your money when you're younger, is that your circle of friends? Unless you don't have any friends, which becomes a whole other conversation is that you can rely on your friends to be your sounding board for things when something looks off, to help support you. Your friends are probably not going to be your caregivers, but they can also be your support group, I would think.

Speaker 4: 38:38

That's right. That's right. And one of the things that I'm hearing from the Solo Ager initiative is that if you are not planning on being a caregiver to your friends or let's say, you're starting to date and you're with somebody on a romantic level and you're just not up to being a caregiver those relationships require a conversation about don't look at me, it's not going to be me. Let's make a plan for it not being me.

Speaker 3: 39:10

Can I tell you that's the same for adult children. There are adult children that are absolutely not going to take that job. That's right. You can ask as much as you want, the answer is still going to be no.

Speaker 4: 39:21

I don't know, kathy, you probably have been seeing the onslaught of articles about adult children flat out saying no. And not only that, but estrangement within families is off the charts because they're living in a highly stressful world. They are. There are kids that are cutting off their parents. They're not talking to them. Estrangement is here in high, high numbers. Cosmopolitan had an article about it. It's like kids are cutting their parents off. Washington Post adult children are saying no to caregiving. If you are, you know, planning for looking back and looking at family, children and grandchildren to take care of you, you really have to think twice about that.

Speaker 3: 40:12

It's not really a good plan.

Speaker 4: 40:15

It's not a plan.

Speaker 3: 40:17

Yes, I mean we'll start with a man is not a plan and we'll move on from there. Yes, I mean we'll start with a man is not a plan and we'll move on from there.

Speaker 2: 40:26

There you go. I'm not going to say anything on that one. I reserve the right. So, to wrap up, what are your number one tips?

Speaker 3: 40:41

on changing the way we think about caregiving and money. Well, I just love I'm stealing this from you, joyce, so you'll probably have to say it again but I love Joyce thing, which is you know what is your quality of life and go from there. I'm an attorney, I'm an elder lawyer, so my very number one tip is for heaven's sake, get your documents. The most powerful document you need is a power of attorney, because we're talking about sick people, not dead people, right? I always tell people elder lawyers are for people who are alive and not well. Estate lawyers are for dead people and we're not talking about dead people. So get your powers of attorney. Those are for sick people who need help. You can get a will. They're awesome, you should have that but most people actually already have that piece. They don't have the power of attorneys piece, powers of attorney. So that's my number one tip.

Speaker 4: 41:32

My number two tip is plan, plan, plan and then go ahead and plan. I'm all for that. My my tip is is where you live matters, and so it has to do with money, because if you're living in a house and you bought the house, you can look at it as an investment to finance your quality of life as you age. However, if you own a single family home and you're sitting there alone, eventually you will be isolated and alone. So where you live matters as it relates to the quality of life, and I wish that everybody would take a look at. Are you destined for a life of isolation? And if not, do something today and use the money that you might get from selling the house to get yourself in a situation where you become social and have the quality of life you deserve.

Speaker 2: 42:27

So as we talk about this, you know, have you seen situations where aging people are teaming up and moving to houses together, sort of like the Golden Girls?

Speaker 4: 42:37

Well, it's got a shelf life. It's got a huge shelf life, tony, because eventually something happens one or the other, so I love them but it's like fantasy.

Speaker 3: 42:48

They say that's happening but it's not really happening yet. I'm not seeing that. But I mean I'm seeing it that it certainly may go that way, especially because of the cost of housing.

Speaker 4: 43:01

And I'll tell you that in our own immediate family we had a situation where my sister-in-law had a roommate and everything was great, but my sister-in-law got sick and the roommate moved out. She said that's not what she signed up for. So there's all kinds of discussions around home sharing which we could do on another show.

Speaker 2: 43:21

Yeah, yeah, I was thinking we need to have a follow-up on this. So where can people connect with each of you and learn more about what you're up to and your resources? Joy, you've got a tremendous amount of resources instead of you. Kathy, joy does, joy is the resource queen.

Speaker 3: 43:40

For sure, I am a little more simplistic. I have my two books. This is a great one for having a conversation, because each chapter is a conversation with somebody important in your life, and this is just issues that you might meet as a caregiver as well as getting prepared legally, and you are welcome. Anybody listening to this is welcome to email me at kathysikorsky my name is on the screen right there, just put a dot in the middle at gmailcom, I'm always, uh, open to having any kind of conversation about this and, uh, my website is under construction, but you can go there and read some blogs. That's all you're going to see for right now, which is kathyskorskycom.

Speaker 4: 44:23

That's great. I just go to my website elderindustrycom. I got everything on there books and blogs, and you name it.

Speaker 2: 44:35

Yeah and Joy. What is the name of your book? I have two books.

Speaker 4: 44:40

Yeah, of your book or books, if you want to put both, yeah. So the the first, the caregiver book, is called the complete elder care planner, and I just completed the fourth edition of that book. And then the other book is called who will take care of me when I'm old?

Speaker 2: 44:56

fantastic and uh for everybody watching and listening. You can find, uh, both kathy and and Joyce books on Amazon and other major book retailers, and the names of the books will also be in the show notes. So if you forget, that's OK, you don't have to keep going back and rewinding because they'll be in the show notes. So, kathy and Joyce, thank you so much for joining us today on the Get Ready Money podcast.

Speaker 3: 45:19

Thank you so much, Joyce. Such a delight to be with you in the same room. I really enjoyed it very much. Tony, thanks for having us together.

Speaker 4: 45:26

Thank you, Tony, Thank you Kathy.

Speaker 2: 45:29

My pleasure. I appreciate both your time and your insight and I hope for everybody tuning in that you were able to pick up something today to make you think a little bit differently about caregiving and money and, as always, thanks everyone for tuning into this episode of the Get Ready Money podcast. If you learned something today, please share this episode with somebody else and be sure to subscribe Until next time. Let's change the way we think about money. Thank you.