Jonathan Paul Green (Production Designer) Interview

A cafe filled with guinea pig decor? Paintings falling off church walls? A giant wall of cocks? It was all in a day’s work for Jonathan Paul Green, the production designer on “Fleabag.” Chrissie and Allie got a chance to talk to Jonathan and get the behind-the-scenes scoop on some burning fan questions.

Transcript

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Allie: This episode of the Fleabag Situation is brought to you by pine nuts. You know, Chrissie, the other day at lunch, I saw you eating a salad.  

Chrissie: Oh, yeah?  

Allie: What toppings did you have on there?  

Chrissie: I had, like, some carrots, like shredded carrots. Couple of croutons.  

Allie: Okay, and what are you, 12?

Chrissie: Hey, I’m 40—

Allie: You're not a child anymore, so don't eat a child's salad. Put some pine nuts on it!  

Chrissie: Putting pine nuts on your salad doesn't make you a grown up.  

Allie: Fucking does! Pine nuts: when you want the world to know you've tried everything.

[The Fleabag Situation Intro plays]

Chrissie: Hello. Welcome to another week on the Fleabag Situation! I'm Chrissie Moore.  

Allie: I'm Allie Lemco Toren.

Chrissie: And Allie, I'm so excited about our episode today.   

Allie: Me too!

Chrissie: Because, guys, we were lucky enough--this is actually kind of a special episode because we were lucky enough to get a chance to interview Jonathan Paul Green, who was the production designer on Fleabag. Like, unbelievable! I can’t believe I just said that. He had actually found us on Twitter and we reached out to him seeing if he would talk to us and he was so gracious and said yes.

Allie: The nicest human.

Chrissie: Very, very kind and generous with his time. So we didn't know a lot about what production design was, and he talked through a lot of it, and he was saying how it's like, basically everything you see on the screen that's not on the actor is production design. So, like the sets and the props and any graphics, anything like decor, anything on the wall…

Allie: Even Hilary!

Chrissie: Right! Even Hilary was actually part of production design.

Allie: Yes, she was not talent, she was a prop.

Chrissie: She's a little bit of both. So he was saying, like, he had a lot of input on Hilary's Cafe and they had kind of a scare on getting it remounted for season two that he talks about. He did all the stuff for the Sexhibition. 

Allie: I let him know that my living room is open for the Wall of Cocks if it needs a good home… don’t tell my husband. 

Chrissie: So TBD on that. We talked about the statue. We talked about the very last scene with the fox and their attempts to use a real fox before they ended up on a CG {computer generated). A little bit about, like, the design of the bus stop. And so he had some answers to some questions we've all had. So we're going to try to get to him as fast as we can. But we do have to talk about--We're recording some Thursday so we’re only two days away from Phoebe on SNL. 

Allie: Yay! 

Chrissie: Cannot wait.

Allie: I'm so excited. You know, we're both SNL people. I grew up on SNL. For our British or non-American listeners aren't as familiar, SNL stands for Saturday Night Live. 

Chrissie: They probably know that!  

Allie: Okay, fine I’ll give them little more credit. 

Chrissie: It airs on Saturday night.

Allie: It does [laughs] and it's live! It is a variety sketch show. They write the whole thing in one week with a different celebrity host and musical guest every week. It's like just a feat of comedic talent. And I'm so excited to see PWB on there just being her stellar self. 

Chrissie: Yeah, and a question came up on the Facebook group about what it means that she's hosting and all that. That just means she's like the featured star for the week, and there will probably be like some political stuff, a lot of topical stuff. But I know some people were like, “oh, they’ll definitely do a Killing Eve or Fleabag skit.” They might not do direct parodies of it because not everybody who watches it might know those, but… so they might do a Bond thing... You'll definitely see her in totally random sketches and totally made up characters. 

Allie: I'm pretty pumped. 

Chrissie: And to be fair… And I say this as somebody who loves, loves, loves SNL… because they write it in a week, not every sketch is a winner, so I'm bracing myself for a little bit of disappointment. And I say this again as someone who admires those writers so much, like try to sit down and write a sketch. It's really hard. And they're self aware of it, too. The famous line that Lorne Michaels always says about the show is that the show doesn't go on because it's ready, it goes on because it's 11:30. 

Allie: And Lorne Michaels is the producer/creator/legend… and he’s a character, too. 

  Chrissie: I'm kind of bracing myself that--in the past, when I've been really pumped up for a certain person, by the end of the show, you're like, “Oh, they could have done that better.” Again, I love you, SNL writers. I know you're all listening.

Allie: I know. I mean, we have to be particularly careful…

Chrissie: Also, a lot of the attention is gonna be on Taylor Swift so she might end up in a sketch and popping in. Also, Chloe Fineman, who's one of the new cast members, this week posted on Instagram one of her impressions of Phoebe. I think that got posted in one of the Facebook groups.

  Allie: She is incredible.

Chrissie:  She's also in the promo that they showed where Phoebe is walking around with all of her Emmys, all the time. She's like “water” and beckons, wants her to come over and give her a sip of water so she doesn't have to put down her Emmys and then yeah, just doesn't miss a beat. “I could do political stuff.” 

Allie: Personally, it doesn't take much for SNL to thrill me. So I have a very low bar because I’ve just loved it since I was like five. I know you have too, but anyway, so I'm getting my hopes way up, guys. 

Chrissie: I'm being cautiously optimistic.

Allie: We’ll report back. However, we did get some comedy appearances to sustain us until then, right? 

Chrissie: Yes, she's promoting it on Seth Meyers. Which is like literally two floors down from where they do SNL.

Allie: And Seth was the head writer on SNL for a long time and did Weekend Update. And if you haven't watched that interview from Tuesday, I highly recommend it because they're both, like, so delightful. Also, they both really like each other, you can tell. But Phoebe does tell this great story that I won't tell too much because it’s gonna be better if you watch her say it. But she talks about finishing the book of scripts that they’re putting out--The Scriptures, of course, genius. But she finished that right in the limo as they pulled up to the Emmys, like, wrote about how much she loved everybody in the cast, shut the laptop, and then walked out onto the red carpet.

Chrissie: It’s amazing.

Allie: What an insane start to an epic Emmys night. I love it.

Chrissie: And I like how Seth was like, it's kind of encouraging, too, to young writers that you are just constantly writing, like you're not cozied up in a cafe with a whiskey. You’re actually cranking it in a dress. 

Allie: Exactly. 

Chrissie: Well, and speaking of Seth Meyers, there was a really funny clip from the week before of Bradley Whitford, who was on after he had won his Emmy for Handmaid's Tale for guest actor. But he was saying how to him, the whole Emmys was a sham because Andrew Scott wasn't nominated. He was like, it just shows it’s not… like, it cast a pall on all of the winners because he wasn't nominated. So it like delegitimizes the whole Emmys. But then he was saying how like, “everyone's obsessed with this guy!” and a couple of girls in the audience, were like, “yeah!!” and he was like, “I mean, everybody across all the spectrums wants to give this guy a brisk workout in Cupid's gymnasium. You know what I mean?” And I think I do know what he means. And I think I’m signing up for a membership. I don't think they're available, but—

Allie: That's how they get you. That's how they get you in and then they lock you in for an annual membership.

Chrissie: If only. But like I said, I don't think they're available right now… or ever. 

Allie: I love that phrase, I’m going to use it all the time. 

Chrissie: So the other thing, talking about SNL, is for the people in the US--we are gonna open up a live Facebook comment thread on our Facebook podcast group. There will probably also be one on the official Fleabag Facebook group. But if you want to join our Facebook group, just search the Fleabag Situation and it'll come up as a group. And then there's one question you just have to answer about what Fleabag means to you. My favorite answer so far is, “everything else is a dumpster fire compared to Fleabag.” Or no, it’s “everything else is a garbage fire compared to Fleabag.” Because it was so good, I want to quote it right. But yes, we'll add you in. And then, in the US, what's great is SNL now airs in all time zones live. So if you are one of those lucky people who gets to watch it at 7:30 at night or 8:30 at night on the West Coast, that sounds nice. It’s 11:35 Eastern and an hour back as you go west. 

Allie: But what's exciting is that for the Brits, I guess not yet--now you have to watch it on YouTube--so it's not widely available, actually, which is something else that Phoebe talked about with Seth. But it is about to start streaming on Sky Comedy. 

Chrissie: It's a new channel, we are reading an article now about it, we're not experts in, you know, British TV.

Allie: Surprisingly.

Chrissie: But yeah, they're saying right now you can either just pirate it or watch the highlights on YouTube. But starting in 2020, Sky is starting a new channel called Sky Comedy, dedicated to imported comedy content. And it will include full episodes of Saturday Night Live. 

Allie: So congratulations, everyone. You get our ridiculous--Alec Baldwin's ridiculous Trump impression. 

Chrissie: They've seen it just on YouTube, and also be excited, guys, because Ballers is coming from HBO.

Allie: Thank God, it’ll fill the Rock-sized hole in your life.

Chrissie: I do like Ballers because I do like the Rock.

Allie: I’ve never watched it, I’ve got to add it to my list.

Chrissie: I’ll watch the Rock do just about anything. Also a great SNL host. 

Allie: Yes, he is. He's extremely talented. 

Chrissie: Speaking of US versus English, we are excited--this sounds like a weird segue--we got our first voicemail, which is so great. And it's from someone in England named Helen. And we're gonna take a listen because she has a point to make about us being American and the Englishness of Fleabag. 

Helen’s voice: Hi Chrissie, Hi Allie. My name's Helen. I'm English and I’m loving your podcast. I’ve come to it a little bit late, but I really wish you could have some English input. So things like risotto and your American accents on the very Englishness of what Fleabag is to us. It's not your fault, you're American, but I'm loving it. I'm loving your work, ladies, and I'm so pleased that you're doing this podcast, so I will be catching up soon, and I'll send you another voicemail. Thank you so much. Bye Bye. 

Chrissie: Well, thank you, Helen, first of all, for sending that—

Allie: That was delightful. 

Chrissie: We are very aware of our Americanness. My favorite line, I think, is, “It's not your fault, you're American.” You know, I think I'm gonna get a t-shirt made that says, “It's not my fault, I’m American.”

Allie: Get me one as well. It’s just our, like, unofficial slogan to the world. Like, we want to recognize--this is an English show—

Chrissie: Yes.

Allie: We are very American. 

Chrissie: We say risotto wrong. 

Allie: We do. We say a lot of stuff wrong. I would like to add I'm also half Canadian, so I can't get all the blame, but--no, I know I'm actually extremely American. Anyway, we're doing our best, we love--that’s why voice messages are even better. 

Chrissie: Right! And it kind of made us think that we might actually even do a bonus episode where we try to get more UK voices and talk a little more about how was received in England and the experience of watching it over there. Because over there, too, it was week to week. I've seen some people say, t was actually so much better with the anticipation. I cannot imagine seeing that confessional scene and then having to wait a week.

Allie:  Oh, my God. I know! So we definitely want UK point of view and we love that you guys are giving it to us. 

Chrissie: So thank you so much, Helen. 

Allie: And if you want to leave us a voicemail just like Helen, go to our website, fleabagpodcast.com, and you can just click “send us a voicemail.” It's totally free--it’s not a phone call--it’s just like recording a voice message. And it gets submitted to us, and we might play it! 

Chrissie: And shoot us an email if you don't hear from us right away. Because what actually happened is normally I would get an email saying “you have a new voicemail from wherever!” and I didn't get that. And Helen had to actually message me and be like, “I sent you some voicemails. Did you get them?” 

Allie: Thanks for following up, Helen!

Chrissie: So if you don't hear from us, send us a little note and be like, “Hey, go check it out!”

Allie: Yes, please. 

Chrissie: Alright. I think that's about it for now.  I kind of feel like the Priest, like, “let's get on with the big bit!”

Allie: Let's do it. 

Chrissie: We're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back with our conversation with the production designer for Fleabag, Jonathan Paul Green.

[The Fleabag Situation music plays]

Chrissie: So, Jonathan Paul Green, thank you so much for taking time to chat with us.

Jonathan Paul Green: My pleasure.

Chrissie: We're super excited. When we started this podcast, we really were just like, we're just gonna gush to ourselves about how much we love this show. And so the opportunity to talk to somebody who helped make it happen is really a thrill.

Jonathan Paul Green: Oh, well I'm very pleased to be here, thank you. 

Chrissie: So we just wanted to start just talking about what production design is and how it fits into the overall production of any show.

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah, well, the thing about production design is it kind of encompasses almost everything that you see on screen. So you have to--you’re kind of responsible for the look, in a way. I mean, not the look in the way that it’s shot, that’s the director and the DOP (Director of Photography), but everything else is your responsibility. So all of the locations or set builds, all of the set dressings, the action props, vehicles, animals, special effects, stunts to a degree fall within Art Department, graphics—basically everything that you can see is done by the production designer. And that changes slightly on different productions. But as a general rule, that's it. I mean, it's slightly different when you're doing a studio-based entertainment show because obviously then there’s an actual physical set that everything is housed in. But the same applies--everything kind of visual. If it’s not being worn, it’s done by the production designer,

Chrissie: So what are some of the jobs on your team? 

Jonathan Paul Green: So my team generally comprises of an art director and a standby art director who is the art director on camera. And then there will be a set decorator or prop buyer, depending on whether you’re British or American. And the prop team who, I mean, the American system is very slightly different to the British system. But basically the set decorator or the prop buyer is responsible for hiring in and buying the set dressing. And depending on the size of a production, we’ll also do action props as well and then there's a team of prop people who are responsible for actually dressing the set and clearing the set and checking everything in. Then you've also got tradespeople, like carpenters, painters. Sometimes you have riggers involved. You might have an assistant art director and a graphic designer. There's quite a big team to manage normally. I mean, you know, a general sized art department on a British TV show may be six or eight people on them. And then there'll be a few other tradespeople involved as well, but that's kind of your core team.

Chrissie: So how did you make your way to Fleabag?

Jonathan Paul Green: So I actually--they checked me out for the pilot, but I was busy doing something else and I didn't really know too much detail because I wasn't available, so we didn't really get into too much discussion about it. It was only really kind of like an email exchange. And then I didn't hear anything of it. And then the original producer, which is Lydia Hampton, sent me an email to ask if I was available for the series. I mean, at that time, you don't really, you know, because I wasn’t involved in the pilot, I didn't really know what to expect. But I was available then so I was asked to come in and have a meeting with her and the director Harry Bradbeer. So I went along to that, and they'd already sent me--I think they’d sent me a script by then, so I kind of had a bit of an idea of what the show was about, seemed really exciting back then. And the interview went really well, and I got the job, which was really exciting because it felt like it was gonna be a great production.

Chrissie: So what is your process from the time you get a script?

Jonathan Paul Green: I guess, the first thing would be to be able to sit down with the director and have a chat about kind of the tone of the show and the style and the direction that they want to take it in. And a lot of the time in pre-production will be spent on scouting locations and figuring out where everything is going to go and how it all fits in. And that all changes as soon as the scripts come in and then the schedule has to be worked out around many other things, apart from the location, like artist availability and things like that. We were a little bit led by what they did in the pilot. But all of the locations were different for season one, so it was kind of a clean sheet. But the kind of premise of Fleabag and who she was and the kind of place that she lived in and the kind of person that she was financially all had a kind of bearing on where we placed her stylistically and that didn't change from the pilot. So we kind of knew the parameters at that point. And the director also, Harry, hadn't shot the pilot either. So it was kind of new for everyone. So yeah, it was good. It was kind of a blank sheet and we kind of just took it in the direction we thought was right.

Chrissie: Do you put together sketches or mood boards or photo references that you review with Harry and Phoebe?

 Jonathan Paul Green: Yes, exactly. So mood board is always a good starting point. Great for working out colors and tones and textures and things like that, and then references of locations that are interesting visually or that fit in with the script… all of that, really. And then you can go from there.

Chrissie: In Harry Bradbeer’s speech, when he won his Emmy, which was amazing, he referenced the crew not having a lot of budget. Were there times when you had to be creative in making something look more expensive than it was?

Jonathan Paul Green: Definitely. That's an age-old problem, but particularly on these kinds of jobs. It basically was a comedy commission. But it was kind of shot as a drama, and normally a drama commission would have a much bigger budget. But comedy tends to be much smaller budget, so the ambition was very grand in scale and filmic. But the budget didn't necessarily fit that. So we did have to be really quite creative. It's an age-old problem, really, but you just do the best you can, and it really helps when you find really good locations. But, you know, you’ve got to be lucky.

Chrissie: Yeah, I was gonna say if there were any specific examples where something on screen looked more expensive than it was.

Jonathan Paul Green: One thing that springs to mind is in season two, Claire’s office party. We found a really fantastic location that had a great view over London and was a very kind of high-end office that was quite an expensive location to film, but obviously gave us a lot of vision impact without having to bring too much in furniture-wise. So sometimes you get lucky with those sorts of places.

Chrissie: Well, what we thought we would do is kind of talk through some of the major sets or locations and maybe some of the details within there. So Allie wanted to start with Fleabag’s apartment. 

Allie: Yes. So, you know, we noticed on maybe the 15th viewing [laughs] or earlier than that, but I won't disclose how many times we've actually seen it.

Jonathan Paul Green: More than me, most likely [laughs].

Allie: [Laughs] We noticed there's really different color palettes and mood set between season one and season two, and so one of those where we especially noticed it was Fleabag’s apartment. We know clearly her apartment is different in season one, she's living with Harry, and then in season two, she's not. But what I kept noticing is such really muted colors--grays, blacks--even, I think in the bathroom scene when she's talking about her feelings about sex, there's like a flamingo towel, but it's not funky and pink. It's gray. So we wanted to see your thoughts on how you chose those color palettes, what was intentional and how her two living spaces differed between the seasons.

Jonathan Paul Green: Yes, well. Season one, it's kind of going back to what I was talking about earlier with the pilot. There was an amount of continuity involved because the pilot became episode one of season one. And so we were kind--of the bedroom was kind of set. But we weren't able to shoot in the same location. So I had to recreate the decor of the bedroom. It was kind of a bit of a set build. It ended up being in a disused squash court in an old estate we were filming in.

Allie: Wow!

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah, you'd never know that, but we built two and 1/2 walls off the original location in this squash court and we had to try and match the wallpaper. So we were a little bit stuck with what they had with that kind of yellowy stripey bedroom wallpaper. So when it came to season two, Phoebe had made the decision that Fleabag had moved on and we kind of had again, we had a blank canvas, and we decided to go a bit darker in tone and color and a bit richer in color and just try and make it a bit more visually interesting. I think with the pilot, it wasn't a choice to have that yellow stripey wallpaper. That was just what was in the location and they went with it because it was a pilot and they didn’t have the time or the money to change it. So we were kind of locked in to that for season one. Whereas season two, we were able to go our own way a bit more.

Chrissie: And how do you work with the director of photography? Because it seemed like all of season two just felt more saturated and richer and brighter.

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah, I mean, again, that was kind of discussions that we all had. And Tony Miller, DOP, was very keen on having quite dark colors, which always looks much more interesting on camera on So, yeah, that was kind of a conscious effort between all of us to take it that way.

Chrissie: Are you on set during the shooting and adjusting things as you go?

Jonathan Paul Green: Not as often as I'd like, and that's generally because when they're shooting something, I’m prepping something else. It’s a whole kind of synchronized thing going on, where you can very rarely be with the shooting crew, because you have to be getting everything else ready that comes after. You always try to see the shooting crew into a new set at the beginning, and then once everyone's happy and set up, then you, leave them to it, leave it to the standby art director. And then you take your team on to the next location, or next set. It's very hard. It's hard to have the time to be on camera, so you get a bit more time at the end of the production because there's nothing else coming up. But generally, it's kind of too hard to split yourself. It’s a tricky balance.

Allie: So going back to sort of the color scheme, were there specific items in season two that you knew you wanted to make a little more vibrant? For example, you know, in season one, we're always seeing her--everything she has is gray, black. And then season two, you know, I realize it might be outside your domain, it might be more costume design, but like, her dress is more colorful, even the church has the bright windows. Like, what were some specific things that you decided like, ‘we're injecting color in here’? Or was that part of your process, or did it just happen organically?

Jonathan Paul Green: I think it was a bit of both, really. There was definitely an organic change. We had a different costume designer between season one and season two. And lots of different locations between season one and season two. Things kind of evolved naturally as well as purposefully and I think we did, all of us, try to make the colors and tones more interesting, and that sometimes means that they're more vibrant and darker. But there was a lot of darkness. We kind of went to darker tones in Fleabag’s living room and in her bedroom. The bathroom, we kind of lucked out. We didn't really do anything to the bathroom, it was how we found it, which was great. All the church stuff, again, was quite dark, but that fitted the script and that worked quite well. But we shot in so many different locations. We were in two different churches in various scenes, and Fleabag’s flat was split across two different locations as well. So, yeah, there was a lot of kind of joining together that hopefully isn’t obvious. But that was a lot down to location availability and artist availability and scheduling issues.

Chrissie: What would you say is the percentage split between location, shooting, and studio? It felt like there were more outdoor scenes in season two.

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah, I think so. I think generally there was just more locations in season two. It felt like there was a lot more and we were outside and inside a lot more. The cafe was a good example because, um—

Chrissie: That was gonna be our next topic, so—  

Jonathan Paul Green: Oh, should I wait until we get to it?

Chrissie: No, it's a perfect segue!

Allie: Exactly, I was just about to bring us in there.

Jonathan Paul Green: So the guinea pig cafe was kind of such an iconic part of season one. It was just such a well loved place to be for all of us. Come season two, the restaurant that we shot in wasn't available to us. And we had so many scheduling issues on season two. It was really very difficult for all of us, partly down to artists availability and partly down to location availability. But the big thing was that we couldn't get back to the original cafe location, so we didn't really have the money to do a set build and then there was all sorts of discussion about writing that Fleabag had kind of updated the cafe. She’d got a loan from the bank manager and she turned it into something a bit more normal, and a bit more grown up. But that didn't really--none of us were really taken by that idea. It kind of got shelved a bit as we were filming, and we never quite resolved what was going on with that and we kept on revisiting the idea of actually going back to the cafe. But the owners were adamant that they were doing a refit and we couldn't get in there and as production went on, building hadn’t really progressed much. And so I had a discussion with the location manager and I said, “Can I go down there and just see what stage they're at and see if there’s any chance?” So he was like, “Yeah, sure,” you know, very friendly. So I went down there one evening after shooting and it was basically just a stripped out shell. So I thought, well, if they can just stop what they're doing, I'll just like, clamp the walls and we can paint it. It's not gonna affect their building because I'll be facing it with our own temporary stuff. And then we can kind of remount the guinea pig cafe within the shell. So I floated that as an idea and a possibility. And everyone was obviously very excited about that. And somehow we managed to make that happen. And the owners stopped the builders from working for about a week and we went in there and kind of built the cafe inside this shell. And the frontage hadn't changed, so the view out front was the same. We just had to clean it up and make it look how it used to be. I just remember Phoebe walking in on the day we're filming, and she was almost in tears that we’d managed to recreate the cafe to its former glory.

Allie: Oh wow!

Chrissie: That's amazing.

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah, it just worked out really well. Harry was delighted. In fact, he just emailed me this morning and said, “So sorry I didn't get to mention you by name in my [Emmy acceptance] speech, but we ran out of time and I had a list of all the people and I wanted to mention about what you did to the cafe, and all of this…”

Chrissie: Well, he forgot to mention his wife, so…

Jonathan Paul Green: Oh, my god, I wouldn’t be allowed home if that were me.

Allie: Oh my goodness, I know, thank goodness they won again, for his sake of his marriage! I was curious, you know, kind of stretching all the way back to the first season. Do you remember your first reaction to learning that you had to create a guinea pig-themed café?

Jonathan Paul Green: I do, and I remember thinking, this is amazing and I’m so lucky, because it's just such an unusual, creative thing to be given. You know, you just don't often get a chance to do those sort of things. So when somebody writes something that’s a cafe that is guinea pig-themed, that’s the most fantastic gift for a designer, to be able to be given something like that, and just, you know, run with it. There was always a fine line between it not looking too stupid and comedic, we wanted it to look serious. But in the back of my mind, I was always thinking, “How would Boo style this place?” Because it was her idea, and they kind of did it together. So I was always trying to think, “What would Boo do?” And that kind of led to doing it in a certain quirky way, which also is how we decorated her flat when we did Boo’s apartment in season one.

Allie: I love that!

Jonathan Paul Green: She was a great character to style as well. So, you know, you could really go full-on quirky with Boo. And so that's kind of how the guinea pig cafe evolved, with just thinking, “What would Boo do to it?” rather than turning it into a kind of theme park version of a café. 

Allie: Right, because she took it very seriously.

Jonathan Paul Green: Exactly, exactly, very seriously. And it was all totally normal for her. So it has to feel realistic, right? 

Chrissie: “This is an excellent one.”

Allie: Exactly!

Jonathan Paul Green: I know! That is such a beautiful moment.

Allie: It really is. So how did you get started? I mean, it's plenty exciting to learn that you have to go do that. but then where do you start when it comes to designing a guinea pig-themed cafe?

Jonathan Paul Green: We knew that Hilary's pen had to be visible in the café, which is obviously a big leap, anyway, you'd never be able to have live animals in a place where you're eating. But that was kind of like, you know, we wanted to put that by the till and make a bit of a joke of that and have, like, a bit of straw on the floor of the world just to really hit home that this is not how you would expect to find a café. But that was the kind of thing that Boo and Fleabag would think was perfectly acceptable. 

And then it was really just a question of literally covering every inch of the wall with pictures of guinea pigs. And then we had guinea pig-shaped blackboards to write things on. We just kind of went to town as much as we could and, again, in season one, we didn't have a great deal of time and money. So we were kind of a bit stuck with what the restaurant looked like when we took over the location. And I think it was like a mustardy yellow color, and none of us really liked it but we couldn’t really afford to do anything about it and it kind of sat there for a while, and everyone was hemming and hawing and Tony was saying, I’m not sure about the color and I’m saying, “Oh, go on, I can’t repaint the whole thing. And then on our final scout, we were standing, just me, Tony, and Harry, and we were standing there and Harry was like, “I'm really sorry. We've got to change the color.” We'd all wanted to change the color, but no one was kind of brave enough to actually say, “We’ve got to do it.” And that was really from a financial point of view, it wasn’t from a stylistic point of view. We wanted to change it, but it was quite a big step for us. So we just did it. We got painters in and we just painted it literally overnight. And it made a massive, massive difference. It really, you know, felt correct.

Allie: So how did your team go about finding or creating all that guinea pig décor? Were you just hitting up all these different small shops, consignment shops, that kind of stuff?

Jonathan Paul Green: We were, and online as well. And then obviously all the photos have to be royalty- and copyright-free for us to be able to use them. And there’s not so many of those, and there were some others that we had to license because we just couldn't get enough. So all of that had to be done. 

And then our graphic designer created menus and things like that, all Hilary-themed. And then we went from there and bought as many little knickknacks as we could just to make it feel busy and cluttered.

Allie: Do you have a favorite knickknack? A favorite guinea pig-themed item?

Jonathan Paul Green: Oh, gosh. I'm not sure I do actually.

Allie: Too many to choose from,

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah, I think so. 

Allie: Good answer.

Chrissie: We were fans of the salt and pepper shakers. 

Allie: Yeah, I loved that detail. Loved that. 

Jonathan Paul Green: It's always nice to be able to get in detail in when you can. And, you know, it's not always--you're just not always able to do it, due to time, mostly. It's always hard. You never have as much time as you need to be able to really sit down and think about the best way of doing stuff. And sometimes you’ve just gotta do things the quickest, which is not always the best.

Chrissie: It also sounds like there's so much work your team does that never gets on camera.

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah, that's often the way, particularly with graphics as well. So you know, you can make brochures and magazine covers and things like that and all the text will be perfectly correct for that thing. And you’d never ever see that in any detail. But, you know, people take great pride in making those things as accurate as possible, just in case.

Allie: Right, you never know.

Jonathan Paul Green: You never know, exactly. And then sometimes you don't know exactly where something is going to be staged within the location, depending on how much planning there is. And the director on the day or the DOP might change their mind and say, “Oh, it’d be so much better if we sit them here.” And then all the dressing that you thought was going to be in the back of shot suddenly isn't. There's always that to deal with it. So you end up having to dress more than you expect to anyway, and again that doesn’t always help when you have a limited budget.

Chrissie: I was gonna say it must also help ground the actors, to feel like they're in a really authentic space.

Jonathan Paul Green: It definitely does. And I've noticed that over the years since I've been working that it's a great thing to see actors walk on set and kind of go, “Oh, wow,” and really feel that they're in the exact environment. It really helps them and it benefits the entire production.

Allie: Yeah, you really create that world for them.

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah. Yes, it's really important to do that and obviously you get that a lot more in a studio situation where you're starting from scratch and you’re building the entire set, creating it from nothing. So you tend to get more kind of “wow” moments there, where people are walking into an empty studio and there’s this kind of made-up environment in front of them. A great part of job really is seeing people's reaction when they walk on set for the first time.

Allie:   That's great, I didn't even think of that.

Jonathan Paul Green: It's like the icing on the cake when the people that haven't seen it walk on set and have a bit of a ‘wow’ moment; then you just think, "Okay, I've succeeded."

Allie: Yeah, that's fantastic. So moving to the real star of the show, Hilary, is she considered a prop or is she talent?

Jonathan Paul Green: She is considered a prop. In my budget line it would come under animals but it's within the art department. So she is very much part of the art department, and here's a little nugget of info, it's the exact same Hilary as we had on season one and season two.

Allie: You brought her back, she performed so well?

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah, exactly. We didn't have second doubts, she was really great.

Allie: So how did you--or someone on your team--do the work to find her?

Jonathan Paul Green: So that would be generally down to the prop buyer and there's a number of animal handlers out there and they serve the film and TV industry. So generally, that's the way you go. You approach one of these companies and say, "Well we need a guinea pig." And they'll throw up photos of guinea pigs that they can get ahold of and they have dogs, cats, things like that, too.

Allie: Got you.

Chrissie: I have to ask a question that's burning up the Facebook group: did that guinea pig pee on Andrew Scott?

Jonathan Paul Green: [Laughs] I don't know that answer because I might not have been on set when that happened.

Chrissie: Because some people thought they could see it but-

Allie: Well, we'll never know.

Jonathan Paul Green: It's entirely possible. I didn't hear that that happened and I may have done if it had happened. Well, I don't know, I’ll have to ask around and find out, I'll have to join the Facebook group.

Chrissie: I think people are just looking for an excuse to watch it again.

Allie: Honestly.

Jonathan Paul Green: Maybe, maybe.

Allie: …And again and again and again.

Jonathan Paul Green: Well, I'll try and do some research and I'll see if I can find some info on that one.

Chrissie: There's a theory that it's just the cedar chips. It's a very hot topic.

Allie: It's very important.

Chrissie: We wanted to also talk about Dad's house. Was that a real location?

Jonathan Paul Green: That's a real location. And it was the same location for season one and two.

Chrissie: And was that also for the interiors or did you have a sub for the interiors?

Jonathan Paul Green: So that interior and front exterior was all Dad's house. And then the back garden for the wedding was a completely different location that we had to try and match, too.

Chrissie: What are the challenges of shooting inside a house that looked like it didn't have a ton of space?

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah, that's always a problem. And actually, that house is quite a big house. But the difficulty is that you want a big house for logistically, shooting and housing the crew and camera crew, and you don't want something that is so cavernous that it looks like you're in a mansion. So it's a really fine line finding a location that's big enough to actually physically shoot in but doesn't look too big for the character's property. That was one of our big issues with Fleabag's flat because imagine you're in a very tiny living room in a flat: it would be impossible to shoot.

 And so the flip side of that is to go to somewhere that's big enough to house the crew. It doesn't look like a believable space that Fleabag would be living in so it's a real, real problem to figure that out and make it work. Bigger is normally better and you can shoot it smaller, but you can go the other way around. So Dad's house was actually quite a big property and although it always gets really overcrowded when the entire crew is on set with the cast, it wasn't too bad; we managed.

Chrissie: So when you are going into an existing house, was there someone living there? Is there stuff that you have to move out?

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah. So the owners moved out for the time that we were filming.

Chrissie: So then you dress the whole house?

Jonathan Paul Green: Yes. We kept some of their furniture again and that's down to financial constraints more than stylistic. And so you tend to go for locations where some of the key bits of furniture fit for what you want anyway, just to save you having to spend money taking everything out and redressing everything. You try and change as much as you physically can afford to do but the style and the tone of the house was pretty much how we wanted it for the Dad’s house anyway.

Chrissie: What about all the art that Godmother made?

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah. So, some of that we kept over from season one. Some of it was even made for the pilot. We had a lot of fun doing the Sexhibition for season one.

Allie: Yes. We have many questions about that.

Jonathan Paul Green: I'm sure you do. We had kept some of her artwork from season one in storage and we wanted to introduce that into season two to tie them into Godmother’s studio in a completely separate location. And that again was one of our real tricky location finds that we just couldn't pin down until right at the last minute. Because it was a new place and a studio space that we hadn't ever seen before. We wanted to have some of her artwork visible in her studio just for a bit of continuity.

Allie: And is that something that an artist on your team just makes, or did Phoebe have direction about what those would look like?

Jonathan Paul Green: So very much so with the orgasm painting and there was a lot of discussions with Phoebe about how she imagined that to go. It's a very subjective thing. It could be anything, but Phoebe had an idea and so we actually commissioned a painter to paint that for us. And we also commissioned a painter to do the girls' portraits as well and that was, I'll say, a lot of fun to do.

Chrissie: Who has that now?

Jonathan Paul Green: I think that is in the production office… yeah, I feel like that's in the Two Brothers production office, but I'm not sure, I haven't been back since to check. But it was definitely kept as too good to throw away.

Allie: That's so good.

Chrissie: You had mentioned when we were emailing that the statue was something... Because it was from the pilot, you didn't design it, but you knew some of the backstory on it?

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah. So, it was made for the pilot by the previous art department and they had a prop maker make it up and I think they made one or two copies of it. And thankfully they were kept for season one. What happened after season one is that most of the props and some of the bits of set went into storage and when it came to season two, no one could track down the original statue and some people had thought it had gone somewhere, some people thought had gone somewhere else and we just couldn't... No one could quite remember, which is very frustrating for quite a crucial prop. So we basically had to get it remade and of course no one knew the exact dimensions of the original one because it was made for the pilot. Which is why there is a slight variation in the size of the statue between season one and season two because it is a different statue. So the original is out there somewhere, who knows where. So if it's found one day-

Allie: Yeah, that'll be a fun surprise.

Jonathan Paul Green: Exactly. So we had a bunch made for season two and that's why there's a slight difference, and that all of those are in safe hands somewhere, in between the production office and Phoebe and various other people.

Chrissie: What is it actually made of?

Jonathan Paul Green: It's a resin. Like a bronze resin, it's sculpted in clay and then cast in a resin to look like it's made of bronze.

Chrissie: One other painting I noticed, there's a shot of Godmother. It's in the scene when Dad has dropped the canapés and she comes in and sees them on the floor. There's a shot where there's a painting over her shoulder that is a woman with a headscarf, exactly like hers. Is that a self-portrait?

Jonathan Paul Green: No, no. I mean, I could make up some story about that but we just hired that in from a prop house, it was a lucky find.

Allie: Well, I have to tell you the Facebook group, and especially Chrissie, like to believe that that is Fleabag’s mother and Godmother is copying her hair scarf. So we've created plot beyond that.

Jonathan Paul Green: Really? I think that's a great idea and I would like to say yes, that's exactly what we did. It could be anything and I think the more people look, the more people want to find stuff I think it’s absolutely great they do that.

Chrissie: That's what we keep saying, this show feels like a great novel where you find something different every time you peel back a layer. Well, you mentioned the Sexhibition and that must've been a riot for you and your team.

Jonathan Paul Green: It really was. It really was and again, when you read the script you think amazing, what a gift. Because you can really go to town on Godmother's artwork and there was a lot of discussions about the kind of art that she would create and there was always this discussion that she's actually not a bad artist. She's quite an accomplished artist so she's not just rubbish at what she does, and very much to Fleabag’s annoyance, she is actually quite a good artist. And so again, we wanted to make artwork that looks serious and didn't look jokey because it's really simple to go the wrong way with it and make it look too comedic.

Chrissie: And is that another case where Phoebe had ideas of what those individual pieces would be or your team could go for it?

Jonathan Paul Green: Well, so a bit of both really. And there were two items that were scripted and one was the Wall of Cocks and the other was the life-sized sculpture of Harry. So we basically sent Hugh, the actor, off to have a full body cast.

Allie: Oh, my goodness.

Chrissie: I was going to ask that because he jokes about, "She molded me in plaster and left me in the garden for a couple hours."

Jonathan Paul Green: Yes, pretty much what happened in there.

Allie: So what happened?

Chrissie: So Hugh Skinner actually had to do that.

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah. He actually had to do that, yeah. I don't think it was particularly comfortable experience for him but... So that was great. So we did have a plaster cast of Hugh and the Wall of Cocks. Again, a really tricky thing to make without looking either too perverted and disgusting or too much of a joke. We didn’t have the money to have somebody sculpt everything from scratch so we cheated a bit and actually if you... So we did a bit of research about... I mean, I'm guessing Phoebe had seen something similar but if you were to Google “artwork Wall of Cocks” or something-

Chrissie: Who hasn't done that?

Jonathan Paul Green: There's a number of artists that have done that. We were in the realms of reality straight away.

Allie: Who knew?

Jonathan Paul Green: What we ended up doing to keep the cost down was we just bought a load of sex toys and mounted them on a board and had them all covered in a light plaster just to blend everything in together and that's how we ended up with it.

Chrissie: That has to be a moment when you're like, "I'm getting paid to do this."

Jonathan Paul Green: I know, yeah. And also on a daily basis you talk amongst yourselves and the team and refer to the Wall of Cocks and they talk about who is building the Wall of Cocks and how is it, and it's just all like completely normal for you. Anyone else, an outsider would sit in on those conversation, just can't imagine what people would think. But it becomes such a normal part of your daily routine, it's quite peculiar.

Chrissie: Well, and then is there a meeting you have with Phoebe where she's like, "That one needs to face the other way and this one needs to be-”

Jonathan Paul Green: A little bit because there was that moment where we had to choose which one might be Dad-

Allie: Okay, so you did choose those specifically?

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah. I mean I think what happened is we assembled the Wall and then Phoebe went, “That's his and that's his.”

Allie: That is too funny.

Chrissie: Harry Bradbeer, I think, called it your tour de force.

Allie: Yes, what a compliment.

Jonathan Paul Green: We took our Art Department photo in front of it as well.

Allie: Where is that? Where does that live now?

Jonathan Paul Green: I'm not so sure what happened to that.

Allie: Well, my living room is open so you can pass that along.

Jonathan Paul Green: I’m hoping it’s somewhere although it's going to be a very odd item in a landfill.

Allie: Right, or come across that in some storage closet.

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah or some archeologists will discover it in a few hundred years time and wonder what was going on. Yeah, so that was a lot of fun. And we actually, we shot that whole sequence in a room at the Tate Modern. So we were actually in the Tate.

Allie: Wow. I had read that that was difficult to secure. What was that process like?

Jonathan Paul Green: Well, I didn't get involved in that, that would be down to the location manager, but I do know it was an extremely expensive location to be in and it's always very expensive being in Central London for filming anyway. But it really, really-

Chrissie: But it worked though.

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah, it really did. And those views over London and stuff, it's great, couldn't be better.

Allie: So we were curious, you mentioned earlier that the church--you shot at two separate locations, other than... That must've been very difficult but what other changes were made to make a church more amenable to the shooting process?

Jonathan Paul Green: So there was obviously some scripted moments where Phoebe was looking at Jesus on the wall and starting to think that he was looking quite hot. And so obviously those are going to be very heavily featured paintings and we went to great lengths to get clearance for images of real paintings that Phoebe had selected. So that was quite tricky and then we printed those ourselves and framed them. And the painting that drops off the wall as well had a little bit of a fiddly rig, which happened twice, actually…

Allie: Did you set that up to time it or is that the prop... How does that work?

Jonathan Paul Green: Well, the prop team takes responsibility for that during the shoots but we have to make sure it works for them prior to that. And so the second time around where they're in the confessional, we actually built a bit of false wall to match the church interior and then fixed our painting to that so it was really easy to just pull a pin out and it drops on cue. And also a lot of these churches, they don't want you going in there drilling holes in the wall and hanging pictures-

Allie:   I could imagine, yeah.

Jonathan Paul Green: Exactly. So lots of logistics to try and work around about how we hang up pictures, where we hang them, what size they are, things like that.

Allie: Were you looking for something specific when you chose... I guess that's the location guy also, but as far as your aesthetic, were there specific things that you wanted to include when it came to those church scenes?

Jonathan Paul Green: We talked a lot about the type of church they would be in. Because we also had to find a church for the funeral flashback as well. It was finding the right scale of church that didn't feel too grand, that didn't feel too small and village-y. So we looked at many churches but also you've got to remember that as far as the script goes, there's going to be very few churches that will want you in their church filming that content.

Chrissie: I was going to ask that, if it was hard to get permission?

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah, it was really tough. So you're kind of limited in your choice of location at that point. But we found it eventually, but that was again one of our other crazy location dilemmas that we all had to deal with. And the first church that we were going to film in, they pulled out literally the day before we started shooting-

Allie: Oh, my goodness.

Jonathan Paul Green: And that was the first thing we were going to shoot for season two, so we had to delay filming by a couple of days and it was a whole big mess for everyone.

Chrissie: What about the priest's office, was that a set?

Jonathan Paul Green: That was a location that we dressed and that was in a different church to where we did the confessional.

Chrissie: And I have to ask about the G&Ts. Are those real or did you guys rig those up? Because I assume they're not plastered by the end of the scene.

Jonathan Paul Green: No, they're not. No, no, we would never have real alcohol on set. So you have to decant it and go with something different. Whenever you see people drinking alcohol, it's never ever alcohol. Certainly, I've never come across the fact that people have drunk real alcohol. But yeah, you've always got to be careful particularly, you know, some people are allergic to alcohol and then you can't be giving alcohol to people at work and then they might drive home so you have got to take it seriously.

Allie: Right. And when you chose, when you put those G&Ts in there, the prop designer-- Did you expect... How surprising was it that they immediately became a huge hit and sold out and everybody's into the M&S G&Ts now?

Jonathan Paul Green: I mean, I was really surprised. I imagine everyone else was surprised but just one of those, it's almost like an incidental prop for us and you just don't expect something like that to go so big. You can understand it more with Phoebe's wardrobe, because that's a big part of her character and highly featured. But yeah, it's interesting when that happened.

Chrissie: Well, speaking of religion I also wanted to ask about the Quaker house. Because that's a real location, right?

Jonathan Paul Green: It is a real location that was in Central London and was a real Quaker hall.

Chrissie: And was that difficult to get permission for that?

Jonathan Paul Green: I think it was, but again it needed to be in Central London for scheduling reasons so that limits your choice greatly and increases the cost greatly as well. But it was a perfect location and we really didn't have to do a great deal and that was exactly how we needed it.

Chrissie: Another iconic set now is the bus stop in the last scene. And I read that that was- that the location's obviously real but the bus stop was built.

Jonathan Paul Green: Correct. So we hired the bus stop. It's basically, it's an old bus stop that is in a prop house, so we hired that in and placed it on the street so we created our own bus stop essentially.

Chrissie: So does the graffiti on it have any significance?

Jonathan Paul Green: No, I'm afraid not. It came with some graffiti on it and we altered it a bit because we didn't want it to look like something else that somebody else had done.

Allie: Right. Well that is a big topic of discussion on the Facebook

Jonathan Paul Green: We wanted to keep it as generic as possible so that no one would be able to look at it and go, "That says X or Y." So it's a bit of graffiti with some more graffiti painted over it just to try and disguise what it might be. We kept trying to keep it as generic as possible. Actually-

Chrissie: So it's not distracting

Jonathan Paul Green: ... Sad to say it doesn't actually mean anything.

Chrissie: Wow. There are people who have a lot of theories that it's like some Latvian word, they went deep. Well, and it makes sense-

Jonathan Paul Green: I mean, I think that's great and I would love to have had the time to have sat down with Phoebe and said, "What can we put on this thing as graffiti that has some meaning and sense to it?" But I'm afraid to say we just didn't have the time to do that. Even that location was found very last minute and it was... everything was a scramble, I’m afraid to say, we did everything really quickly.

Chrissie: Well, it doesn't look that way.

Jonathan Paul Green: Oh good, I’m glad.

Chrissie: I had a couple of extra questions about iconic props in it. The original Women in Business award that Fleabag shatters: was that a one-take prop or did you have multiple?

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah. I mean what we did was we worked out what shape we wanted and we ended up buying an ornament and mounting it on our own base. And then we sent that to a prop maker who took a mold from it and made a breakaway version. So we had a solid glass version and then we had... I think we ended up getting three breakaway versions, but I think it was a one-take wonder.

Allie: But you knew you wanted a sperm shape. [Laughs}

Jonathan Paul Green: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. [Laughs] Well, actually we were going for the nonsense abstract shape that these awards tend to be. So we just wanted to go with something that was a little bit tongue in cheek and something that alluded to the fact that a lot of these awards are just weird abstract shapes that people think are important.

Chrissie: It also would've been massive on someone's shelf.

Allie:   That's so true.

Jonathan Paul Green: Exactly, we wanted something very large scale as well and then also quick breaking as well-

Chrissie: Well, I was going to say, was there a discussion about how it would... Because it shatters so perfectly, because it's just irreparable.

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah, no we had a lot of talk about that and also what it was going to break on. Was she going to drop it on the floor, was she going to drop it on the table or is she just going to brush past it and knock it off? There was a lot of discussion there.

Chrissie: See this is the stuff I love about TV production because you watch that moment and you just go, "Oh, that's so funny, she dropped it." But like you said, there were conversations and conversations about how it would go.

Jonathan Paul Green: Yes, absolutely.

Allie:   I love it.

Chrissie: The other thing I had was obviously Claire's haircut. That actual haircut was a wig, but I assume your team had to make the magazine reference that Anthony rolls out.

Jonathan Paul Green: We did.

Chrissie: So did you shoot that with a model or did you find that?

Jonathan Paul Green: We did, we shot a model. Again, lots of discussion about what that hairstyle looked like.

Chrissie: What were some of the concerns, what was the back and forth about it?

Jonathan Paul Green: Just different hairstyles, really. And then there was a few changes on the actual photo that we took as well. I mean there's often a bit of to and fro and everyone has a slightly different opinion about what it should look like. But yeah, I mean it worked perfectly, really. Until it's all cut together, it's very hard to know exactly how something's going to pan out because you do it all very piecemeal and very separated and you'll never shoot them all in one go. All out of order and it's really difficult to get an overview of how it looks. So when you work on a show and then you see the finished cut, it's always quite enlightening and it's a big moment. You never get to see that overview when you're filming it.

Chrissie: Well and so much changes in the editing.

Jonathan Paul Green: It really does. It really does. And the editing by Gary Dollner was superb, he's a fantastic editor.

Allie: Yeah, really.

Chrissie: The other thing I noticed is the end of episode one of season two, when Claire calls her over into the cab. In the background there's a bus that has a Chiquita banana ad and it says, "We are bananas." Was that just a happy accident?

Jonathan Paul Green: I'm really sorry to say it was.

Chrissie: Okay. Well, it worked perfectly.

Allie: Yeah, we did love it. It was meant to be.

Jonathan Paul Green: We had so much trouble shooting on a bridge in London and just... you know, we're a small production, we can't afford to shut down roads in Central London and we can't afford to just control all of the vehicles and bring our own buses in and things like that. And it would be lovely if we could but we were just a small little BBC comedy with a small budget and we just do the best we can.

Chrissie: Yeah. We heard too- because that last scene, Phoebe had said on another podcast that there was traffic noise, they were trying to do this emotional scene. And then we also heard that there originally was going to be a real fox.

Jonathan Paul Green: Yes. There actually was a real fox. We shot a real fox but surprise, surprise it didn't do what we wanted it to do.

Allie: Yeah. I think I saw an interview where he needed to listen to Coldplay to calm down.

Jonathan Paul Green: [Laughs] It’s always… working with animals is always tricky. Working with non-domesticated animals even harder. And just the logistics of safely corralling this creature out in the real world, you know, it has all sorts of logistical issues. You can't just leave a fox running wild, it'll just run off and you won't get it back. So there's lots of logistics, keeping the public safe and all that.

Chrissie: And it had to hit a mark and look at her?

Jonathan Paul Green: Exactly right. And I do remember having discussions with Harry and him saying, "So the fox needs to stop here at the bus stop, turn around, look at Phoebe, and then trot off." And I went, "Harry, what world are you living in?" Even with a highly trained dog, to get it to stop on a mark and then do something like turn its head, is going to take... You'd be so lucky to get that. I said to him, "You might be lucky and it might do it, but I can pretty much guarantee it's never going to do that." But to their credit, you've got to try and if we had got it, it would have been amazing. So we did try and it didn't work, so it ended up being CGI which is unfortunate but what can you do.

Chrissie: Yeah. Which was probably a big budget spend on the CGI.

Jonathan Paul Green: I think so, yeah.

Chrissie: Are there- just because in the U.S., we don't- are there foxes that just wander around London?

Jonathan Paul Green: There are, many of them.

Allie: Okay. That's what I've learned from this show, I think, is that that's expected.

Jonathan Paul Green: I mean they're naturally a rural creature that lives in fields and woodlands and you get them out in the countryside. But more and more, I guess like raccoons in some of the U.S. cities, they become more domesticated and they live… they actually have inner city foxes now that live in the city and so there are quite a number of foxes. It is not abnormal to see a fox in London.

Chrissie: I would love to have foxes around.

Allie: Yeah. Instead of wild cats. I think we have wild cats sometimes... 

Chrissie: Coyotes?

Allie: Coyotes, that's what I was thinking of. Because we're down South and in the U.S. and that's an issue apparently. As you've been talking, I was curious, was there anything that Phoebe wrote in the script or asked you to do that just didn't quite work? Or vice versa? Was there anything you had ideas for that she wasn't a fan of? I'm curious about that process of you two.

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah. I don't think there's anything that she wrote that didn't work. I think we were always struggling logistically to make things work, be it a location issue or scheduling issue. But there was never anything that she had written that was just impossible to achieve. And I think what was always lovely with working with Phoebe was she was always so thankful for the effort that you put in and she's just very grateful and very gracious and very generous and everything worked out great, really. Everything that we gave her, she loved.

Allie:   Yeah. I'm waiting for the ball to drop on her, for us to learn that she's actually terrible because everybody is so complimentary.

Jonathan Paul Green: I know, she's an amazing, talented, beautiful individual. She's just such a lovely lady. She is a joy to work with and it's fantastic that she's had so much praise for everything, it's great.

Chrissie: When season one ended, that was the expectation that that was going to be it. So when did you find out you were coming back for season two?

Jonathan Paul Green: I mean, I felt like a season two was going to happen and certainly when we finished season one, I think people were expecting a season two. But I know that Phoebe was not that keen on writing a season two and I'm not sure of that process and how that came about. But I do remember her saying that she didn't want to do it and she didn't enjoy doing it. Which is really sad to hear because it was such an exceptional piece of work. But I think the fact that it's been so well received is obviously just fantastic for her and hopefully she will bring it back at some point in her life.

Allie: We can only hope, right?

Jonathan Paul Green: We can only hope. There is an outside possibility that she might do it at some point in the future but it may not be in the cards.

Allie: So what was the weirdest thing you have created for the show? And I think I have an idea but I'd love for you to surprise me.

Jonathan Paul Green: I mean, I think the obvious one is the Wall of Cocks at the Sexhibition, because that's quite a peculiar ask.

Allie: You probably won't make that again.

Jonathan Paul Green: No, I don't think so, I don't think so. But you can never say never.

Allie: Right, true. Season three.

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Allie: What was the most challenging thing, prop or set? I mean we've touched on some of that but what comes up as something that was particularly difficult?

Jonathan Paul Green: Generally overall hitting the right tone for all of it was hard and getting the look that the director wanted and Phoebe wanted and just finding the trueness of that space with the... Just to be authentic on all of that. Dad's house, Phoebe's house, Godmother studio, and the cafe. All of those, just to hit the nail on the head, that was probably the hardest thing throughout. There was nothing individual that was tricky to do. It was just about finding the right look. I think that was the hardest thing overall, just to really land it.

Allie: So after season two premiered, when did you realize what a sort of underground hit it had become? And I'm sure maybe there was a swell of support in Britain and then later in the U.S. it really caught on, too. What was that like for you and the rest of all your colleagues?

Jonathan Paul Green: Fabulous. Yeah it's really fabulous. You always hope that whatever show you work on is successful, not because it means that you'll do it again or whatever but just for your own personal satisfaction. It's great to work on a show that is successful and as its production designer, you don't really have any control over that. And so I could do my best work on a show, that bombs and no one will thank me for it or think I have done a good job. And I can do the same or for a more extreme example, I could just do an average job on a big hit and people will think I'm amazing. I don't have that kind of influence on whether a show does well or not, so there's a huge element of luck and I always knew from reading the scripts, from way back in season one, I knew this was something special but you don't know how the audience is going to take to it.

And it's hit a perfect storm of all sorts of things: great direction, great production design, great costumes, great cinematography, great production generally acting. Everything had to come together in this perfect storm and then somehow it just catches a moment and no one can ever know that upfront. And you can work on the best script ever and it still doesn't do well. There's an element of luck, but I think we all knew that Phoebe's scripts were just so exceptional that you weren’t surprised when everyone else thought the same thing. I certainly felt like I knew it was going to be amazing whether the audience took to it or not. I think it's just, it's gone slightly viral in that respect and that it's still this small little show that's made in the UK with not much money but somehow everyone’s flocked to it. And I think that speaks volumes about Phoebe and to her talent and writing.

Allie: Right. Now we just have a couple more questions for you. As we spoke about, we're all very excited about the Emmys and of course Phoebe won the BAFTA, Artist of the year. How does it feel to have worked on this show that is getting all this critical acclaim?

Jonathan Paul Green: It's fantastic. It's very rewarding. You always give your all in a job and you work really hard, you work long hours, and you have lots of difficulties but you also have a lot of fun. But when ultimately a show gets all of this recognition, it's very fantastic. You feel very fortunate and lucky to have been a part of it.

Chrissie: You mentioned you got that message from Harry Bradbeer. Have you talked to anybody else from the cast and crew about the wins?

Jonathan Paul Green: Every time Phoebe has won something, I've messaged her and last time I said, "I'm never going to get bored of sending you congratulations." Yeah, I message the producer and everyone's so excited that it's done so well, it's fantastic. We were one big team, one big family, it's a win for everyone, really.

Allie: Really, yeah. So what's one memory... And now I'm putting you on the spot. What's a memory of working on the show that just stands out to you? That's the one you want to tell the grandkids about?

Jonathan Paul Green: I mean, I would say from season two for me, I think the moment that Harry and Phoebe walked back into the guinea pig cafe, I think that was a big emotional moment. So I'll always remember that.

Allie: So what is next for you? As we said that was a year ago, season two. So what have you got going on now?

Jonathan Paul Green: So I just finished a big drama starring Dawn French in the UK that will come out next year. It's called Glass Houses, I don't know whether it'll make it to America or not, I don't know and-

Chrissie: With streaming now everything does-

Allie:   Yeah, exactly.

Jonathan Paul Green: That's very true. And then I'm just about to start- I'm in pre-production now for a new comedy starring Lee Mack called Semi Detached. We are shooting that in a few weeks time, until November. And then after that I'm going back to the Ice Hotel in Sweden because I've been selected to create one of their art suites.

Allie: I read about that and you were doing that with your daughter, I think I saw.

Jonathan Paul Green: That's right.

Allie: That is so special, wow.

Jonathan Paul Green: We got selected again, and it’s their 30th anniversary this year, so it's going to be a big one. So very much looking forward to that and then new year, nothing planned yet. So I'm hopeful that work will start coming into the new year quite soon.

Chrissie: Or a well earned holiday!

Jonathan Paul Green: I had a holiday after my Dawn French job. So I feel well rested and had a good break.

Chrissie: Well we cannot thank you enough for taking time to talk with us.

Allie: Yes, this was wonderful.

Jonathan Paul Green: My pleasure. Anytime. I mean there's so much to talk about, I could easily talk for another hour, another time. So I'm happy to do that-

Chrissie: Maybe we'll do that.

Allie:   Yeah, we might take you up on that, be careful.

Jonathan Paul Green: Yeah listen, I’m always happy to share in the love, it’s such a well-loved program, so very happy to be part of that and talk to people about it.

Chrissie: Wonderful. Thank you again.

Allie:   Yes, thank you so much.

Jonathan Paul Green: My pleasure, looking forward to hearing it.

[The Fleabag Situation theme song plays]

Allie: Thank you again to Jonathan for talking to us.

Chrissie: That was so great. As I listen to it, I'm just so grateful that we got that opportunity.

Allie: And it's just such interesting information and he was so kind and like just the nicest guy.  

Chrissie: It makes me want to go back and watch the show again but only look at the sets.

Allie:   I know! So we want you to know that you can follow him on Twitter and Instagram, same handle, It's @JonathanPaulGreenDesign. And also for those of you in the Fleabag Facebook group, the official one, he has joined. We told him it existed and he was like, "Oh, cool." So he joined and he's been posting-

Chrissie: He's a fan of Fleabag too. It was really endearing.

Allie: Yeah. It's so lovely. I mean, how could he not be? But he's been posting some behind the scenes photos to the official Facebook group, which is really fun and-

Chrissie: He had one of the wedding ceremony set-

Allie: And I think Godmother’s studio and then he actually stuck one in that… I wasn't sure what the set was supposed to be, but I think they were just generally on set and there was a real fox in the scene not supposed to be there.

Chrissie: Just popped up, following the priest.

Allie: Yeah, exactly because it's real life.

Chrissie: “Oh, it's a fucking fox!”

Allie: I know! So anyway, we hope you guys enjoyed that as much as we did. As usual, you can find us on our website fleabagpodcast.com or on Instagram @fleabagsituationpodcast. You can join our Facebook group, just search for the Fleabag Situation. We're on Twitter @fleabagpodcast and you can email us at thefleabagsituation@gmail.com. And another reminder, leave us a voicemail if you want to tell us how American we are or other things.

 Chrissie: Trust that we know but-

Allie: And we appreciate it because we don't know what we're missing, we want to hear your perspective, it’s really awesome.

Chrissie: And we’re also starting… I think this might be part of that bonus episode; we're hearing more about differences between the two episodes—I mean the U.S. and UK versions, especially with the music so we can dive deeper into that. Well next week, we will be back to our regular format and we're going to crack open a couple of G&Ts if we could, because I don't think we have them here, but we're going to be talking through episode two of season two and we will get chatty with you then. Thanks guys.

Allie: Bye! 

[The Fleabag Situation theme song plays]