The PROPERTY DOCTORS, Sydney Australia Novak Properties
EP. 1256 OVERNIGHT PROPERTY MILLIONAIR? POLICY CHANGES ON THE HORIZON!
Jun 25, 2024Season 27Episode 1256
Mark Novak, Billy Drury & Eli Gescheit
What if the next big opportunity in real estate is right in your backyard? Join us as we explore the groundbreaking urban planning changes with expert Ellie, who sheds light on new state government policies set to override local council controls. These shifts could mean extraordinary possibilities for property owners, including the chance to develop dual occupancies in previously restricted areas. Ellie provides a deep dive into the practicalities and hurdles of these reforms, forecasting an influx of applications and discussing the economic feasibility of new development projects.
Lisa Novak's inquiries about navigating these complex planning regulations in New South Wales highlight the need for accurate information, best found on the state government website. We delve into the challenges developers face with evolving rules and uncertain council approvals. Our discussion also covers Navon Planning’s role in helping clients adapt to these changes, including the extended timelines for Development Applications (DAs). Despite the obstacles, there's a silver lining—these reforms have the potential to stimulate redevelopment and address housing shortages, particularly in high-demand areas like the Northern Beaches. Tune in for a comprehensive look into the future of urban planning and property development.
What if the next big opportunity in real estate is right in your backyard? Join us as we explore the groundbreaking urban planning changes with expert Ellie, who sheds light on new state government policies set to override local council controls. These shifts could mean extraordinary possibilities for property owners, including the chance to develop dual occupancies in previously restricted areas. Ellie provides a deep dive into the practicalities and hurdles of these reforms, forecasting an influx of applications and discussing the economic feasibility of new development projects.
Lisa Novak's inquiries about navigating these complex planning regulations in New South Wales highlight the need for accurate information, best found on the state government website. We delve into the challenges developers face with evolving rules and uncertain council approvals. Our discussion also covers Navon Planning’s role in helping clients adapt to these changes, including the extended timelines for Development Applications (DAs). Despite the obstacles, there's a silver lining—these reforms have the potential to stimulate redevelopment and address housing shortages, particularly in high-demand areas like the Northern Beaches. Tune in for a comprehensive look into the future of urban planning and property development.
Speaker 1:
Guys, getting an urban planner and advice from an urban planner is hard. We've got it today and there are going to be some overnight millionaires potentially in the property market. Could be happening at your property or next door. Stay tuned, we're going to talk about urban planning.
Speaker 2:
I'm the ringleader, good morning. Morning Billy, We've got a late on planning. Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3:
How are you guys?
Speaker 1:
Now today's exciting because there are some changes that could be coming in the next couple of weeks. Now you may be trolling council websites trying to find information. It's very hard. You may be reading top line media, which is that nationwide. It's very hard. What relates to you and what can be done around you we're going to talk about this morning with ellie. Ellie, thank you so much for coming on. We really appreciate it. We know you're a busy man. We really appreciate it. We know you're a busy man. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 3:
We know you're a busy man. Pleasure Thanks for joining, for inviting me guys.
Speaker 2:
I've got a question Fire away Bill. Once one council sets precedence, are we expected to see you know the others follow suit and maybe just give us a bit of an insight as to what these sort of changes look like? Because, as Mark said, it's so frustrating for people to read through these big documents and basically only come out with one sentence that makes sense.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, that's a great question, Billy. So essentially this is a state government driven policy. So these planning reforms that we've been hearing about for probably the last six or twelve months, that's being driven by the state government rather than councils. So, as you guys will know, there's a lot of red tape associated, associated with councils and DA's and and property developments, and there's essentially kind of two tiers of legislation or planning policy one is state policy and one is local councils. Now, when you have a state policy like what what's being introduced at the moment as well as what is proposed to be introduced that essentially overrides council's controls or switches some of them off, which allows the state policies to to basically apply so this is this is the big deal it is a big deal, and there's probably one council that you've been hearing about karenga council, my local council which is taking the state government to court in about a week or two to try, you know, overthrow these um policies.
Speaker 3:
Um, yeah, so that's this one council that we're all familiar with that's not happy with the proposed changes right now, ellie.
Speaker 1:
Last time I saw something similar to this in my world was dual occupancies, where people were having one block of land putting a second house at the back, and that was being done very quick. It was scalable. It was a window that opened and people did it and the window closed. Do you think the same thing is going to happen here, where that window is going to open and then in years gone by, it'll close up again?
Speaker 3:
Well, I think that's pretty much standard with these types of major planning reforms that there's a lot of thought behind them but in practicality the government actually doesn't know how much take up there's going to be number one. Number two, how receptive um property owners are going to be to it in terms of whether it's going to stack up for them or not. And number three, whether council is going to be to it in terms of whether it's going to stack up for them or not. And number three, whether council is going to be on board also with these proposed changes.
Speaker 3:
As I was saying before, it's switching on some council's dual occupancies. For example, I believe Ryde Council as well as Kuringai Council at the moment prohibit dual occupancies. Was Caringo Council at the moment prohibit dual occupancies. So what this control will do is switch it back on. So if your site is zoned out too, you could technically have a dual occupancy, obviously subject to certain design parameters, but essentially it'll switch it on. Whether you know I've already been talking to someone with good knowledge of these things there's currently a TOD policy called the Transport Oriented Development Policy which is live at the moment. We can talk about that later if you want, but I believe that already there's proposed changes to that, to amend those planning controls.
Speaker 1:
Do you think there'll be a rush when these changes come in, or do you think it'll be like a slow take-up and then there'll be sort of like a council? I would imagine council's going to get nailed with applications, council's going to get nailed with applications.
Speaker 3:
Listen, I think that there is that perception that, hey, now I can either build a dual occupancy on my property or, hey, you know where my property sits. I could build possibly a six-storey apartment building. There'll be certainly a lot of interest, but my understanding of the environment, as well as talking to other people and developers, I don't know if it's going to stack up for them. There is even a UDIA an Urban Development Institute of Australia research paper going around at the moment that's actually analysing certain train station and surrounding areas and it's telling you which areas are going to be economically viable and which aren't. So there's even that level of research that the community or the industry is doing, which I haven't seen the government even put forward.
Speaker 2:
Another question. I like the way you phrased it. I like the way you phrased it, the light being turned on giving people the green light. If you're a homeowner and you meet the certain lot size and you meet the requirement to be within distance of shopping centres and transport and hospitals whatever the requirement is and you're eligible now for a dual occupancy, what do you need to do in terms of DH? You have to build whilst it's under the green light or can you sit on the plans once you've got them approved? Are we going to find people sort of land banking on plans, or do you have to do it whilst it's still you know, whilst you still got the go at?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, good question. So there's no real difference at the moment in terms of the approval. So right now you can build a new house, let's say with a da, and you've got five years to start building. So I presume the same policy would apply for these types of developments. I don't believe that's proposed to change at all, but technically, yeah, if you get an approval, you can sit on it for five years before you have to start building. Otherwise you'll lose the the approval okay.
Speaker 1:
So, ellie, as an urban planner, people are watching and they're thinking to themselves I wonder if it's this, is this is applicable to my property. And they're sitting there thinking I wonder if I said that the property I'm gonna buy, you know he's gonna be eligible. I wonder if I should not sell and wait to see what happens to my property. What's the criteria? That is coming in now, which is not involving train stations? I think you had another name for it, called low-rise, mid-rise.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, yeah, that's right. So essentially it fell within a 400-metre radius from like a town centre, essentially filled within a 400 meter radius from like a town center. So it could be like a like a suburban, uh shops, possibly zoned e1. It filled within 400 meters from that then and your properties, let's say, zoned uh too low density. You could potentially build terraces or possibly even manor houses or even possibly even apartments. There's also different criteria if your property is 800 metres from these town centres, so it varies depending where you are and the size of your property and things like that.
Speaker 1:
That's massive. So 800 meters is always, you know, just short of a kilometer. That's a huge radius. That's a 1.6, you know uh is a diameter around, you know it's that's a huge area and so there could be a lot of people that are going to light up under these changes with density on their blocks 100 per cent.
Speaker 3:
The devil is in the detail, really, because at the moment you know they might be, they've exhibited certain controls, but you don't really know exactly what's going to be adopted at the end of it. For example, as I was saying before, there's a TOD policy, which is Transport Oriented Development Policy, which now applies to just over 30 train stations around Sydney, for example. That was exhibited with a three to one FSR, so people got obviously really excited and then, when it was actually adopted, when it became legislated, the FSR was actually 2.5 to 1. So obviously what that means to your listeners is you could build less than what they originally suggested you could build. So in terms of this low-rise development policy which is due to I believe it's due to come out within the next month or so it's hard to know exactly what control is actually going to apply.
Speaker 2:
I've got another question. This might be a bit of a silly one, but what's the difference between a manor house and an apartment complex? I keep on seeing this term in the articles.
Speaker 3:
They all look the same though, yeah, manor houses, I don't think it's a really popular type of development around Sydney as a whole. There are some pockets of them where you've got these new release areas, where you've got new suburbs and things. Uh, whereas you know your existing, you know northern beaches area or inner west counts, anywhere sydney, you already see them so essentially it's a two story building with four units in it.
Speaker 3:
That's what idea is. It's two storeys of low scale, whereas an apartment building is anything more than that. It's usually at least three storeys, having at least four units.
Speaker 1:
That's a killer question. That's a killer answer. Thank you, I really wanted to know that.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that makes me so happy um yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1:
It's what a tiny little development. Um, now ellie lisa's got a lisa, the one, and only the one. Lisa novak has got a question. Do we know the minimum block size yet?
Speaker 3:
they are available now on the new south w Wales planning website. I can't tell you exactly what it is, but if you basically Google low-rise, medium-density planning something to that effect, you'll be able to find everything. There are quite useful documents online which you can look up and, depending on the type of development, what you want to do, depending on your zone, will give you the minimum lot size as well as the FSR controls.
Speaker 1:
Lisa said thank you. The Northern Beaches is desperate for this style of accommodation. Huge under supply. Billy, over to you.
Speaker 2:
Should you be looking at the council website if these are council changes with Northern Beaches Council stamp on the front, or is it state? Where do we go to make sure it's relevant?
Speaker 3:
State government. Some councils might have it on their websites, but go to the state government. People are asking me some tricky questions too, which I can't answer, so what I'm telling them is just go straight to the source, go straight to the department of planning, rely on the state government and ask them, and I found them to be pretty useful. You might not be able to catch them on the phone, but certainly by email, because, after all, they're the ones that are driving these planning changes. Um, if you call councils, unfortunately they're not fully across. I don't think they're fully across the details either, so it's best to go straight to the source in that situation.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, got it. Now we've got it. If people want the council document from Northern Beaches in relation to these new potential densities, billy's going to plug in the mobile number. You can SMS the word planning and this will pop up. Ellie, how can you help people out there, and obviously you've come on today to help us and thank you, but where is your sort of areas of special specialty where you can help people where you want to? You want people to give you a call and um, and how do we get some business your way?
Speaker 3:
yeah, thanks, mike, appreciate it. I didn't expect that question but, um, but essentially, if they can find me on linkedin or they can just google me, um, the company's called Navon Planning but in terms of the services that we offer, certainly if there's a site that you own or a site that you're looking to purchase, we can give you a kind of a desktop review and understanding what are the current controls that apply in terms of the TODD, the Transport Orientated Development Policy, as well as what are the future controls that might apply to your property and what it might look like. We work closely with architects, so if there's a concept that needs to be designed that you can visually see, okay, I can fit 20 units on my land, or I can fit five units on my land. That's an exercise that we do all all the time are you excited about this?
Speaker 1:
does this, does this, does this make your blood? Uh, do you? Sort of, because I I see this and I think it's it does for me like it's opportunity for people. I think this is great. How do you feel about it?
Speaker 3:
yes, listen, I I'm I'm a believer of planning reforms because the planning regime at the moment certainly needs a real shake up to make things smoother and easier and quicker for applicants.
Speaker 3:
Applicants I'm talking about, not like large scale developers. I'm talking about mums and dads who might want to build their dream home or subdivide dual occupancy or do a small development like a manor house, for example, something small just to keep them going. I'm quite skeptical in this situation because there's a two-stage process here. One is that the controls change, so let's say they've changed, they've changed again next to um train stations. But number two is actually lodging your application to council and actually getting an approval so that there's a lot of unknowns there. So, like I wouldn't want to be the first development being lodged next to, you know, killara train station, or in a heritage conservation area or down in Northern Beaches or somewhere suburb in Sydney, or you're building a six-story apartment among two-story houses, I wouldn't want to be the first one because there's a lot of unknowns. But ultimately it's certainly created a real interest with our clients and, obviously, your listeners. So if it stimulates interest in people redeveloping their properties, then I think that's a good start.
Speaker 2:
Do you reckon your DA times will get longer to get things approved if there's so much uncertainty?
Speaker 3:
What does a normal DA look like at the moment Normal DAs. It really depends what it is, where it is, but I'm telling clients between three to six months with a compliant DA and probably six to 12 months for a DA. That's pushing the envelope a bit.
Speaker 3:
So you could be waiting 12 months With this. Again, I don't know how big the take-up is going to be and whether that's going to really change council's time frames. I know the state government is is investing a lot in uh, recruiting more town planners and councils, giving councils extra cash for resources. We saw that's a positive thing, but like it's the timeframes, yeah, it's really hard to know but it's frustrating. You know we had an approval two weeks ago through the Land Environment Court just for a dual occupancy in Dover Heights and it took 23 months from when the clients lodged to when it was approved in court and it had to go to court because council refused it on unreasonable grounds, we thought. But then you know, like it shouldn't take 23 months to get a dual occupancy approved.
Speaker 3:
Um it's yes or it's no yeah, that's right, and the ironic thing is they could have done a CDC, a compliant development, and actually get a larger development approved within a matter of weeks, but they decided to go this route for certain reasons.
Speaker 2:
Wow.
Speaker 1:
Unbelievable Eli, thanks for coming on today. You're an absolute legend Pleasure.
Speaker 3:
Thank you I appreciate it for coming on today. You're an absolute legend Pleasure. Thank you, appreciate it.
Speaker 1:
It was fun and we've got people can. What can they Google? Is it your company name is?
Speaker 3:
Navon Planning.
Speaker 1:
N-A-V-L-A-N.
Speaker 3:
N-A-V-O-N. Navon Planning.
Speaker 1:
Navon.
Speaker 3:
Planning.
Speaker 1:
Or they can look me up on linkedin. You're all overly. Are you linked in? You do, actually, um, if it's, it's someone to follow guys and girls, if you're interested in this topic, um, follow ellie because he does have awesome. I love um, I love your, uh, your posts. They're very. I find them really interesting and what you're getting approved and what's happening in the area and very cool thank you, appreciate it fam billy, thank you.
Speaker 2:
See you guys, I'm the excited agent this morning. Very, very exciting billy with the killer questions. The killer brilliant. Great to have you on. Really hard to find that info, so it's very interesting. It's good.
