The Pack Bible Podcast: Week 4

This week we are reading through Mark 13-16, Psalms 16-19, and Exodus 16-20

Pack Bible Podcast: Exodus, Psalms & Mark - Week 4

Join Glenn, Eric, and Lori as they unpack the fourth week of the Radiant Church Pack Bible reading plan!

This episode explores Exodus 16-20, Psalms 16-20, and Mark 16-20 (the end of Mark!), covering topics like Jethro's wise counsel, the abrupt ending of Mark's Gospel, the trustworthiness of Scripture, and the complex character of Judas.

Discussion highlights include:

• Who is Jethro?: Eric questions the role of Jethro, Moses' father-in-law. Glenn highlights Jethro's conversion as a preview of the Gospel reaching the Gentiles and his wise counsel to Moses as an example of God speaking through unlikely people.
• Learning from Outsiders: Eric shares how Jethro's advice to Moses convicted him of the need to listen to outside perspectives, even when we feel close to God or are in leadership positions.
• The Abrupt Ending of Mark: Eric asks about the abrupt ending of Mark's Gospel. Glenn discusses the shorter and longer endings of Mark, explaining that the longer ending was likely added later and is not considered original to the text. They explore different interpretations of the abrupt ending and discuss whether Mark intended to end it this way or if the original ending was lost.
• The Trustworthiness of Scripture: Glenn and Eric discuss the abundance of New Testament manuscripts and how they contribute to the trustworthiness of the Bible. They address concerns about variants and emphasize that the vast majority of these are minor and do not affect core theological truths.
• The Complex Character of Judas: Eric raises questions about Judas' betrayal, including whether it was predestined, whether Judas could have been forgiven, and why Jesus said it would have been better for him if he had never been born. Glenn and Lori offer their perspectives on Judas' motivations, the possibility of his forgiveness, and the tragic consequences of his choices. They also discuss the contrasting characters of Mary of Bethany and Judas, highlighting the difference between a heart that treasures Christ and one that does not.

This episode offers valuable insights and prompts for your own Pack discussions! Don't forget to check out the show notes for the Bible reading plan and a link to join a Pack.

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Bible Reading Plan

*Summaries are generated using AI. Please notify us if you find any errors.

Transcript

 Hey Church, welcome to the PackBible Podcast with Glenn Power, a weekly podcast to help guide and encourage you as you read through the Bible this fall. So grab the Bible reading plan from the show notes, and let's jump in.



 I heard faith's gone out of fashion, Least according to my old friends. Guess I've never been one to keep up with the modern trends,



 because maybe I'm out of style, but whether or not that's true, when I look at this star I see it in the air. Hey, we are back again with the Radiant Pack Bible Podcast.



 So this time we're going to be interviewing Eric Schlich, and Laurie Riley will be in the room as well.



 Again, with these podcasts, we are wanting to just be a companion to you and your packs as you read through the Bible, and we read through the Bible together. Hopefully it just creates a sense of camaraderie, and we are doing this together. And we're going to hopefully answer some commonly asked questions about the passages that we've read.



 And we're just going to share some personal things that God has spoken to us in the process



 and this is something that you could listen to in your packs together, you could listen to it individually or not.



 So Eric. Or not.



 Eric, let's start with how we always start. And actually, I'm sure most of you know this, but Eric is our new youth pastor. Yeah. Yeah. He's 29. That is true. He's full of youthful vigor. Yeah. We're ready. We're getting after it. Yeah. We're super glad that he's here. And I think youth just got started up again just this last week. Yeah. We're out at the Robertson Ranch, seven to nine. And we've had a ton of kids out there. It's been great. I have like the best team of leaders that are just passionate about connecting with our students and really providing a place for them to worship, hear truth, and kind of sit and process. We've been doing some small groups at the end, some pack like things, and their response has been incredible. So yeah, we're excited. God's moving.



 We're ready for revival. It's happening, I think. Yeah. That's great. Eric, what's something about you that most people don't know besides that your dad is Dave Schlich?



 Yeah. Because we all know that. We all know. Yeah. Yeah. We all know the man, the myth, the legend.



 Yeah. I love to play chess and I'm also simultaneously not that good at it. Okay. But I've deleted off my phone recently just so that I can get more work done. Oh, we're talking. Phone chess. Phone chess. Oh, I mean, over the board. Phone. I feel so disappointed now that you've done that. For a second. For a second, we all. What do you mean? We all looked at you as an intellectual. Glenn and I thought, you got like a thousand extra points of intelligence and then you said phone chess and then it just like dropped right back down. Everybody that's good at chess plays on their phone or their laptop. It's online. That's how you get games and every professional, everybody. So you guys are just showing your guys is a lack of intellect in the chess world right now. We're our age. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we got new things called cell phones now and they can do more than just make calls. Yeah. So it's crazy. No. Yeah. So I'm not that good at it though. So I've lost all my brownie points and oh well. But I do love play over the board. Do you ever, you do play over the board? Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I don't play right now that much.



 I'm trying to, trying to build out our youth and our program. And so there's not much time for it, but we have a few students that like to play chess. I was just on Redwoods campus.



 They have a chess club there. I was just went to go see all the clubs and talk and hang out. I got to play over the board the other day against a student.



 I gave him a draw cause I was going to win and I didn't want to crush his spirit. So I gave him a draw. Oh, okay. He played easy on him. Yeah. His name was Elias. I hope to see him again.



 Probably won't, but I hope to see him again. Cool.



 Cool. Okay. Eric with a K. Eric is spelled with a K. Um, wasn't my decision. Yeah, it's a good decision. Let's let's talk about the Bible. That's cool. I'm in. Okay. So Exodus, Mark, Psalms, what was something that was really highlighted and felt meaningful as you read through it. Yeah. Is it possible that I just totally do something different right now? Not out of that. This is, you're welcome. You're welcome. So I would like to start with my first question cause I think it'll, it'll segment into something I took away. Oh sure. But I think the first question I had was this, uh, who is this dude, Jethro? And like, what's he's, what is he up to? If you can kind of explain that, I think I still had God speak to me through that scripture. Oh yeah. But I think it would help if you outlined with that first. Okay. Yeah. Just taking over the podcast over here. That's what the people want. I give the people what they want. I know. Like a natural with those headphones on. You look like a like DJ Eric. Yeah. Yeah. I'm terrible at music and knowing things like that. Okay. So Laurie right now with them though. Yeah. It's it's, it's pretty natural. Yeah. You guys are pretty natural. Um, okay. So let's talk about, uh, Jethro.



 Uh, he, I think in another passage he's actually called, uh, uh, not route, not row. Okay.



 Okay. I in another passage, he's called a different name. It's, I don't know how to pronounce it. It's R E U E L, but it's not Raoul. Raoul.



 We just wanted to contextualize it to here. Otherwise, it's going off the tracks here. No, I should have gotten a reference for Raoul or whoever you say it, but just know that. Okay. And two different names. It's the same guy. So this is Moses's father-in-law. All right. And this is in chapter 18. Thank you. So he, he brings Israel out of Egypt, uh, through the power of God, the templates, the crossing of the red sea. Um, before all of that, he had met his wife and Midian.



 Her dad was this Jethro character. Uh, Zipporah, I think was the name of Moses's wife. So after the whole Exodus event, they're in the wilderness.



 Um, we find out that Moses had dropped off his wife, Zipporah with her dad back in the day. Does she have another name too? Uh, not that I know of. Okay. Um, yeah, who knows? Maybe Maria. Maybe. Just kidding. Um, so we find out that he dropped her off probably just to keep her safe. Um, Jethro comes and visits them in the wilderness and drops her off back with him. Okay. But when he comes, he has some things to say.



 Moses has some things to say to him. Moses actually tells him the whole story of what happened and Jethro is super impressed. In fact, um, this is in Exodus 18, which I don't have pulled up right in front of me, but Jethro says some pretty powerful things. Actually I think I am going to pull it up.



 Um, this is what Jethro says after Moses tells him what happened in the Exodus. This is Exodus 18 verse 10. He says praise be to the Lord who rescued you from the hand of the Egyptians and of Pharaoh and who rescued the people from the hand of the Egyptians. Now this is, this is powerful. Now I know that the Lord is greater than all other gods for he did this to those who had treated Israel arrogantly.



 And Jethro, Moses' father-in-law brought a burnt offering and other sacrifices to God. So basically he makes a confession of faith. Conversion right there. Yeah. And in response to this salvation event, um, I think there's a, there's a lot more to Jethro than just he's Moses' father-in-law and he gives him some good advice later, which he does, which is really helpful. Um, I think Jethro is actually a picture of what God wants to do with the Gentiles. Cause this, this guy is not a Jew, but he hears the story of God's redemption of the Jewish people. And he himself confesses faith. He converts. I think this is a preview of the gospel and a glimpse of what God wants to do with the nations. So I think there's a lot there with Jethro, but what, but what did you get out of it, Eric? Uh, what was your reading through? Yeah. Well, I was just thinking it was interesting. Um, I just, I was laughing at it at first. I'm like, a father-in-law comes in and then just starts telling. It's classic. Yeah. It was a class gives advice when it's not asked for. I'm like, dude, this is the classic. Um, and my wife's, uh, dad, Nico, he's the best. So this is nothing pointed at him. Uh, but you know, I just, I just love it. It's like, Oh, this is just like the most casual thing. Yeah. Father-in-law coming in, giving advice when it wasn't asked for. And then, um, something I thought of too, is he's a, he's an outsider to this situation completely and Moses is like so close to God. Like he's absolutely the closest representation of somebody being to God that we can see in the Old Testament. He's hearing from him. He's getting all this advice he's going. And, uh, Jethro just steps in sees it all makes his conversion and then says, Hey, I think you're a little too close to this. Like you should set up structure in this with this and gives them all this insight that seems really obvious actually. And I just thought it was weird that God could have told him this, but God didn't tell him this, he decided to use Jethro and then I was, and I was just felt convicted too. I'm like, in what ways in ministry have I been too close to my ministry and haven't let some outside voice come in and just give me basic advice, feedback structure. I just thought it was, I thought it was really interesting. I felt convicted of it. I was like, Oh, wow. I need to sit and listen to people more. Um, even if I don't think they have something to say or, you know, or if I've disallowed them, so I just thought it was, I was kind of convicted and that's, that's why I wanted to get into this first before I shared my background. That makes sense. I just want to repeat what you said. Cause I think it's so powerful that Moses was somebody who heard the audible voice of God, a connection with God, like few people. His face was glowing. Yeah.



 Yes. And yet God still chose another person to speak to him through and, and a Gentile at that and an outsider at that. I mean, it just, it definitely shows that, that God wants to speak through people. He wants to, he wants to use us to speak to each other and in doing so it brings us closer together because if we're hearing God through one another, then it's going to create more unity and intimacy. Yeah. I love the like humility of Moses too. I mean, it just says, so Moses listened, you know, it'd be easy. Like he is the head guy who just, you know, led the people of God through all these miraculous deliverances. It's like his staff that parts the Red Sea. So that required a ton of humility. It seems to just have your father-in-law show up and kind of point out this isn't working and here's a better way to do it. And the father-in-law converted. Yeah. I'm going to listen to that, which is really shows a lot of humility for someone who, you know, is like the voice of God to the people. And yeah. Wow. I think it's interesting that he, the, the father-in-law came converted.



 So he had already said, what you've been doing is good, you know, like, or like the stories you've said, the goodness of God is real. I see it.



 And then now that he's converted instantly, like God uses him, the turn around say, actually, this isn't going well though. This part. And let me correct you. Yeah. So it's just, I think it's so true that you like, yeah, God wants to work through us and there'll never be a point in my life for sure that somebody that seems disqualified, uh, can't be used to speak life into me and give me help because if, I mean, I've never had my face glowing from talking to God. I've never had, no, I guess not. Well, maybe do I look, do I look good right now? Yeah, you're getting there. Okay. But so it's just like, we're not gonna, we're not going to just make it where we don't have to rely on other people in the body of Christ, you know? That's really true. That's a good word for packs too. You know, just as we sit with other people and talk about our lives that, that God wants to speak to us through us and maybe through the most unlikely person,



 which don't, don't say who that is. Um, don't look at them. Don't look at the person. Don't go to your next week and say, Hey, you're on like listening to the pod. And, um, I think you should share a word for each of us right now.



 I can't wait for somebody in my pack to come up to me and say that to me now. Yeah. If he, if he can speak through Raul, the spirit of Raul is upon you. Okay. What, what are they doing? I'm not even too far. Laura, you're gonna have to repent of that one later, but that was funny though. Still. I'll let it happen. Erase it. Erase it. Erase it. Erase it.



 I'm talking to young people or, or just people that aren't believers and they're like, how do we get to the point of what is and isn't in scripture? And what about these books that are in or aren't in? And I was just reading Mark, I read through the end of Mark and it's like this extra little blurb at the end is like, this is sometimes considered to not be in scripture or it is. And it's like, was that on purpose?



 Is it supposed to be like abrupt ending in Mark? I would love some, some insight on that. Yeah, totally. Um, the, the Bible that I first read when I came back to the Lord was a, a new King James and it just, Nice easy read. Well, yeah, a new King James is not too hard. Um, but it, it, it has the longer ending and I don't think there's even a note on it that I even remember. And so I just, I thought that the longer ending of Mark was the normal, that there was no question Mark about it at all. I find out later that there's, there's huge question marks about it. And in fact, pretty much every scholar that I have read on the longer ending of Mark says that the longer ending is not original to the text. Yeah. So it was added later to like, they didn't put a bow on this. It's added later. And so, and in fact, I, so this, I don't even think is debatable anymore that the, the, the shorter ending. So up until verse nine, I think it's Mark 16 through verse nine is inspired. It's part of the original manuscripts. But after that, everyone now agrees it was added by later Christians and is not part of the original manuscript that John Mark wrote for his gospel. Okay. So that's important because there, um, you know, the, the longer ending of Mark is mostly nothing new. Um, so that really doesn't change. It doesn't change Christian doctrine or theology at all. The only slight thing that is interesting is there, there is that famous passage about handling snakes and that happens to be in the longer ending of Mark. Interesting. I wonder how many church services that would change, you know, in the Pentecostal. Is it nowhere else?



 Uh, the, the way it's said there, like basically, uh, uh, well, I think it's, it's, it's, it's I've got it right. I don't think it's said anywhere else in the gospel. They will pick up snakes with their hands and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all. Um, I don't think there's any place else in the Bible that is so positive about handling snakes as this passage. There's a story about the apostle Paul getting bit by a snake and then getting healed, but there's nowhere else that encourages people to pick up snakes and you could maybe, uh, get that from this. I'm just saying next week at youth, don't send your kids unless they're ready to handle snakes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there, there have been a lot of church services in the last couple thousand years that have done that, that have actually had snakes. So, uh, so we can, I think we can strike that. Um, the here, here's the debatable question in Mark, the, you know, the short ending versus the long ending.



 The debatable question is did Mark mean to end his gospel abruptly at verse nine or is it verse eight verse eight, verse eight. Thank you. Uh, did he mean to end it abruptly at verse eight or was his actual ending lost? And that's the debate there. Uh, there are reputable scholars on both sides of that debate. Some really argue that he meant to end it at verse eight and it's a very odd way to end the gospel. It's very odd. Yeah. It ends with the women being afraid because they don't know what happened, which is really odd when the whole point of the gospel is the resurrection of Jesus.



 Um, but some people argue that Jason Meyer wrote a commentary on Mark and he believes that the ending on fear fits with the rest of the gospel because it's all the responses of how people reacted. That's exactly, that's exactly his point. Yeah. Is that whenever a miracle happens, they're filled with fear. They're filled with fear. And so it's, it makes sense to the gospel would end with them being filled with fear again, but a, but a right healthy kind of fear of God. I wonder, um, I think it would make more sense to me, uh, for it to end in verse eight, if I knew it was kind of like, you know how, um, acts is actually connected with Luke.



 Right? So like it goes, Luke acts, you can read them through, they're kind of supposed to be connected. If it was like, there was like a mark mark and then an equivalent to like acts that connected because it's like, Oh, I want to know what happens next. So keep reading the next book or I don't know if that makes sense, but I think it's, I like the idea of it ending at eight. I like a good cliffhanger to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.



 The other side of the debate is that, you know, that very statement, I like a good cliffhanger that basically no one in the first century would have said that.



 Nobody, nobody thought like that, that, you know, the, so the, yeah, the other side is that it was the original ending was lost. Um, that it makes no sense for the gospel to end with fear. When one of the main themes of Mark is fulfilled promises, why would it, why would it just end without the biggest promise of all the resurrection being fulfilled?



 Um, and that again, that mindset of either I like a good cliffhanger or it's, it's so interesting. It sounds very modern and existential. It sounds very unlike a first century Jewish author to think that way they would have wanted closure.



 So, I don't know if I have a real strong opinion. I wonder, uh, when we look at, uh, as we continue to find more and more manuscripts and, uh, continue to look back and say, Oh wow, the scripture hasn't changed. Like people have said, Oh, it's been translated. It's this language, this language, but like, we know we go back to the original manuscripts every time. Yeah. Um, and so it's trustworthy as we keep discovering more of these manuscripts, we still don't find any of this, right? Yeah. Is it a test that God has preserved this or not? I don't know. Is that a fair question to ask? I, um, it's one of those questions that I asked and I don't even know how to frame it correctly. Cause I'm not smart enough, but yeah, no, it's, I mean, this is a good apologetics, you know, apologetics is the whole field of, of defending the truths of Christianity. And, um, once you start to study a little bit, it's actually very encouraging on how trustworthy the Bible is. Um, even the number of manuscripts that we have for the new Testament, it, it outnumbers



 the manuscripts we have for any other ancient source by like times 50. I mean, they're even much later or the round that would, yeah, just other ancient manuscripts. Um, and I don't have this fresh in my mind, but, um, that is one thing that I've read several times and that we just have such a huge volume of these manuscripts. And sometimes that can get tricky because you see little notes in your Bible, like, oh, some manuscripts say some manuscripts add the word fasting and some manuscripts don't have that word. And, and that can make us feel like, Oh my gosh, can I even trust the Bible? There's all these different manuscripts, but it's like, no, the very existence of so many manuscripts shows how trustworthy it is because there's no other ancient source that can be verified and confirmed over and over again. Yeah. Um, and even the, they're called variants. You know, when, when all of these, this vast number of manuscripts, they have little changes. Um, even the variants are very minor and they don't affect any major area of theology. They're just very minor in, in consequential areas.



 So again, I mean, there's maybe we could, um, put some, some books or apologetics resources in the show notes, but it's so encouraging once you get into it. Sweet. Cool. Well, should we end or talk about Judas?



 Come on, let's do it. Yeah. Should we do it? Should we talk about Judas for one minute? Sure. All right. The quickest we can go on this. Uh, yeah, I was reading, uh, I don't have my notes. There was it in Mark, but it talks about Judas and it talks about how it was better if he wasn't born.



 And then I was wondering, what is it? How do I, how do I wrestle with that? Um, did he have a choice in betraying Jesus? Yeah. Was he, did we know always and forever that he did Jesus know he brought him in, put him in his, uh, ragtag crew on purpose for this? Um, is it even possible for him to be forgiven? Yeah. And if he didn't commit suicide, could he have been restored? Yeah. I don't know. Dang. Good question. So you have 60 seconds starting now.



 Okay. Uh, I, my opinion is that Judas was not predestined to betray Jesus to the point where he had no choice. I don't think, I don't think that that's how God operates with humans. I don't, I don't think that he, uh, pre-programs us like robots. Yeah. Um, he, of course he has all knowledge and he has complete foreknowledge of what will happen.



 Um, and I think it's very possible that he knew Judas's tendencies and what he would do. And so he knew that this would be somebody who would fulfill the prophecies of betrayal. And so he's, he's picked in that sense of somebody who he knows in his foreknowledge of what he will do. Um, even though it has a very tragic ending. So could it be another disciple you think?



 Could it have been another? Yeah. Gowning Thomas.



 Just don't have name. Yeah. I don't know. It's very hypothetical. I don't know. I mean, Peter denied him three times. I could have been him. I don't know. Yeah. So I, well, I, I, so I do believe that Judas was fully responsible and I do believe that Jesus fully knew what was going to happen. I think those two things are true at the same time. Um, Jesus saying that it would have been better if he was never born the, and it's super intense. The only conclusion, I don't know this for sure. And I, and I hate to assign people a heaven or hell destination because we just never know what happens. But the only way I can make sense of that statement is if he is not spending eternity with God and that's why it would have been better if he had never been born. That's the only way I can make sense of that. Yeah. I do feel like, uh, what happened was he, he made that decision and then he decided that he was going to live into that. Right. And then he took his life because he couldn't, he couldn't, he felt like he could not receive God's forgiveness and grace. Yeah. Right. So, um, was it, you know, when you, when you asked me this a couple, couple of days ago, we, we did a little preview of this conversation and you asked the question, was it forgivable what he did? And I think the answer is yes. Like to me, without a doubt, yes, that act of betrayal is awful as it was, was forgivable,



 but Judas didn't seem to believe that it was forgivable. Yeah. And to me that, that is a serious warning right there that we should not fall into the same mindset as Judas and thinking that any of our sins are unforgivable. We shouldn't condemn ourselves when God is so full of mercy and grace. That's what Judas seems to have done.



 Any other thoughts on this light subject? Yeah, Lori, give us a right answer real quick. I don't have an answer to that. I do think it's like on a good note, like I love, I guess I love that like Jesus loved him in such a way that none of the disciples had it figured out who it was either. You know, they're like, who could it be? You know, as they're passing the bread and the wine, like I, it's not like they all turned and we're like, it's Judas. I don't know. Jesus so included him and loved him so thoroughly that the closest people to Jesus weren't like, we know it's him. I don't know. Yeah.



 I also think it, the, just where it lines up is like right after my favorite story about Jesus being anointed at Bethany and like his, I mean, this is days before he goes to the cross and a woman is like pouring out her treasure on Jesus and worshiping him and like you're worth everything and Judas scold, you know, scolds her. It's like, you know, Another contrast. It is. It's like this contrast, like his heart didn't treasure Christ. Yeah. Like even days before he, you know, his heart had turned like he's scolding her and I think it is crazy. And I guess you can't prove this. And Mark, Mark's gospel is always like, and immediately and then immediately. So you really don't know like timeframes, but right after that story, it says like, and then Judas went and betrayed him. It's like, wow. I don't know. Was that hours later? Like something about that interaction like just seemed to set him over the edge. I'm concluding that. Like it is, it says, and then like he watches this act of total sacrificial love and worship and like you are, you're the greatest treasure. You're worth all the earthly treasures. He watches that and like that he hates that. Yeah. And he's ready to go betray Jesus after that moment. I just think that's a crazy contrast. Like of the hearts that treasure Christ and then this heart that doesn't, you know, so I don't know. We could, we could infer like he wanted to be forgiven, but couldn't or he didn't. I don't know. We can't know what his posture was, but we know. He didn't want the bribe after either. It's just a, it's a crazy thing. He didn't want the bribe after he got it. Right. So that's right. I think he was just overcome with self hatred at that point. And he didn't, he honestly didn't even want the money. He just hated himself more than anything else. And but what's, but we still don't know that he wanted Christ either. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And I, and it's before the resurrection. So he never even got to see the resurrection, which is great. Like I don't know. I'm like, man, what if he saw it? Like would it have changed? Yeah, I don't know. It's hard. It's hard to, yeah, it's very, so that was not one minute, but thanks for letting me ask that. Yeah. Yeah, man. I'm kind of stuck on the, the Mary of Bethany and Judas contrast though. Cause I think it's just really, I think there are some deep grooves there and even playing it out further, just even the, the, the role of money there, you know, where she was willing to give everything, you know, oil that was probably $30,000 worth. A lot of scholars think. Like a year's wage. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a huge wage compared to Judas who is willing to sell Jesus up for 30 pieces of silver. It's just so, uh, it's like chilling and it's a warning, but it does ultimately point to God's character and knew that he, he is merciful and that he wants people who will follow him and who will give all and that he's worth it. Well, that's a happier ending right there. Okay. We'll see you next week with the radiant pack Bible podcast.



 He's out. That was good. That was fun. Good job. I get it up. I get it up for you. I get it up for you.