Denise G. Lee | The Healing Journey: From Severe Abuse, to “Thawing Out”, to a Healthy Life & Relationships

“What we do as adults is do our best grown-up impersonation of the people around us.” ~ Denise G Lee

Episode Overview: In this powerful episode of the Remarkable People Podcast, host David Pasqualone interviews Denise G Lee, who shares her harrowing journey from a traumatic childhood filled with abuse to finding strength and healing in faith and therapy. Denise discusses the profound impact of her troubled home life, her experiences with foster care, and her battle with addiction. She delves into her participation in Sexaholics Anonymous and Alcoholics Anonymous, stressing the importance of confronting personal demons and relying on faith. Now an author and podcaster, Denise reveals the practical steps she took toward emotional health and spiritual recovery. Tune in to understand how Denise transformed her mess into a message of hope, resilience, and overcoming life’s hardest challenges.

SHOW NOTES & LINKS: 

• Website: https://info.deniseglee.com/learnwithdenise
• Podcast: The Introverted Entrepreneur Podcast https://open.spotify.com/show/63hIJoGdG3cx6xys53lCC0?si=5982949b0cb64065
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@deniseglee
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/deniseglee
• X: https://x.com/DeniseGLee

REMARKABLE LISTENER SPECIAL OFFER(S):

• REMARKABLE OFFER 1: Save 30% to 80% on EVERYTHING you order at MyPillow.com with Free Promo Code, “REMARKABLE“. Yes, that’s right! Use the best My Pillow promo code out there to save a ton of money on all 250+ quality, comfortable, cozy home goods at MyPillow.com/Remarkable, or by calling 1-800-644-6612 From sheets, to blankets, to pillows, to mattress toppers, be ready to sleep better and live more comfortably than you ever have before!
• REMARKABLE OFFER 2: Ready to Cultivate an Amazing Attitude? Transform your mindset in just 21 days with daily audio messages and powerful journaling prompts. Enroll Now at a Special Rate for Listeners. https://deniseglee.new

Transcript

Denise G. Lee | The Healing Journey: From Severe Abuse, to “Thawing Out”, to a Healthy Life & Relationships

Warning: Warning, the interview you're about to experience has already positively changed people's lives. If applied appropriately, it can change yours too. The views expressed are those of the guest and host. The content of this podcast is not meant to be legal, financial, or medical advice. Warning, this episode may contain graphic details of the guest's life.

Listener discretion is advised.

Epic Voice Guy: The Remarkable People Podcast, check it out,

the Remarkable People Podcast. Listen, do Repeat for Life,

the Remarkable People Podcast.

David Pasqualone: Hey Denise. How are you today? I'm good, David. How are you? Man, I'm remarkable. I am looking forward to this [00:01:00] interview, ladies and gentlemen around the world.

Whether you're a first time listener or you've been with us for all six years and 300 plus episodes, we're excited to have you today. The purpose of this show is always, is not just to listen to what Denise G. Lee was able to achieve and overcome in her life, but we're going to reverse engineer her success and break it down to practical steps of how she did it.

So you can too. And so can I, or at least have a catalyst to get started. So we're going to go through her story and then we're going to pivot on us, pause along the way, break things down, and at the end we're going to see where Denise is today and where she's heading next. And after she helps us, how can we help her?

So, Denise, with all that said, if our listeners are going to commit to sticking with us for this episode and spend this time together hanging out, right, hanging out, learning, growing together, challenging each other, what is one thing, the [00:02:00] main message you guarantee by the end of this episode, they will walk away.

With that they can start applying to their lives to be better and more successful. 

Denise G Lee: In the midst of every mess that you have gone through, there is a message that can inspire, motivate, and encourage someone else. 

David Pasqualone: Awesome. And that's something we all need. 'cause even when things are quote unquote going well or right, we have things that derail us.

So let's talk your personal life. Everything that happened, good, bad, ugly, pretty and pretty ugly. It makes you who you are. It makes me who I am, makes our listeners who they are. So what was your life? Tell us your story, Denise, of how you became who you are today, that that message is so important. 

Denise G Lee: I would love David to start off and share this curated story of I love corporate America and I found myself, and now I am achieving [00:03:00] all the greatness that I knew through the power of Tony Robbins events.

I mean, through the power of my own sense of purpose and direction. That's the story, right? We all wanna say out the, the things that are are great on a IG reel or a LinkedIn post, or Carol Carol. But that's not really the story I want to share with you. And it's so interesting to me that we work so hard as human beings to create something that is a work of fiction in order to impress people that neither understand nor fully appreciate us.

So that being said, I grew up in a really crappy home life. Crappy on like a multiverse, crazy kinda level. And I know you might be listening like, well, my life was crazy, you know, hold my beer. I got something else better for you to share. But that's not really what I mean by that. Let me explain. So I'm a child of immigrants, [00:04:00] Sierra Leone, and we were living right outside the Washington DC area.

And to the surface, it looked like, wow. Every, they've, they're living in, in a nice home, upper middle class environment. They even got a, a little poodle. Everything looks great on the surface. My, my mother's more like a homemaker. My dad's a banker for good bank, so everything's looking great. But it was a house of horrors inside.

My father was, I don't know any way to explain it, but a rampant, promiscuous person who he was, when he wasn't in the home, he was out chasing tail and being very open about it. Actually, my mother was extremely bitter and resentful, and to be, as I reflect about it now, had a lot of emotional issues. She was never diagnosed, but I truly believe she was.

Bipolar and, and [00:05:00] to make matters worse, she abused myself and my O older brothers and a wild whirlwind of crazy things. She verbally abused my brothers, but to me, she verbally, physically and sexually abuse me from as long as I can remember until I was 11 years old when Child Protective Services took me away briefly for a year.

And so living in an environment where you don't feel safe, but you're pressured to feel as if you have to make sure that you look together when you're falling apart, makes you train really early to devalue and discount yourself in small and big ways. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah, and I think that's such a huge problem. I live in America.

I love America. And we have been so prosperous for so long that it seems like fake is you [00:06:00] have to be fake. People feel, or I can't let people see these things even within the quote unquote church that's not God. God's perfect, but our manmade churches are very flawed 'cause we're in 'em. Right? And more and more like I've been doing this podcast and I talk to people, you know, all I talk multiple times a week, we have up, you know, three, 400 people apply a month.

And there's been so many stories in the last year of sexual molestation by the mother. And that's something that is just starting to be shared that I don't think it's ever been different, but I think our. What's the word? I don't want to, maybe shame. Like it's so, you know, like if a guy gets raped, it's like, dude, she raped you.

You should be thankful. You know, it's like that's, you know what I'm talking about. There's certain taboo. Taboo is the word I'm thinking of. And for you to say it, you're almost like, I'm, I'm talking like three out of five of my last guess [00:07:00] had their mother rape them. And it's so, it's like my brain. It's hard to process, so I can't wait to hear your story because if our generation had so many mothers molesting their children, how many of our listeners are like, yeah, that happened to me too.

So I think this is going to be really good content that people need. So thank you for being so open and transparent. Denise. 

Denise G Lee: I wanna actually thank myself for being open and transparent because I believe that it's more easier for a woman to say, my dad molest me. Or a teacher, which actually did happen to me later.

But I'm not saying it from the standpoint of look about how much I went through. It was more as if I was breaking the silence that so many people have experienced yet no one wants to talk about. Because we think there's acceptable forms of trauma to explain to the general public, which is [00:08:00] insane when you think about it.

David Pasqualone: Yeah. 

Denise G Lee: Why do we have to have acceptable things that we can share that's relatable. But my story is invalidated because it's not commonly spoken about. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah. Yeah. And it, it really is huge. Um, so do this, I didn't mean to cut you off, but I did wanna point that out. It's just, and again, hold on. I don't want to seem like I'm anti-woman or a misogynist, that's not what I'm saying.

But like you said to the public, everything seemed great in your family. But behind closed doors, you, you lived in a nightmare, right? So it seems like, okay, for instance, on Mother's Day, women get all the praise, and on Father's Day, men are like, oh, you need to be better. Right? So there's this cultural thing that's almost given women who are evil.

Like you're, you know, there's good women out, there's, there's none good, but God, hold on, let me rephrase that. There's quality men, there's quality women. I'm not saying all women or all men are [00:09:00] good or bad, right? But there's a societal like lifting up and protection of like evil women and they're being protected by this general blanket that shouldn't be there.

And it, it's something cultural. Like even now, like seven outta 10 divorces for adultery are from the women's side. And again, it keeps going back like you had to be victim for your own mother and your father. But it's just different, like to talk about it. So I'm going to shut up now and I want to hear your story.

Not me rambling, but there's, I don't know if, are you catching what I'm saying or am I just ping ponging around ideas in my head? 

Denise G Lee: No, you're absolutely right. I mean this, this is not just American thing. This is like a human thing. Most societies have this form of reverence, a holiness for mothers. We think about Mother Mary and the Catholicism.

We think about other types of cultures where their mother is revered and African American [00:10:00] culture. The, the mom is the rock of the family, country. Mama, mama, soul sister. Like we, we talk about mothers as this. They're almost an a deity level. And you're absolutely right David. Like no one is perfect except God.

So when you set that standard of mother's the rock, we don't question mom. Mom knows best. It doesn't open the conversation that mom's not, well. Mom's never been well, mom's got some problems. Mom's controlling because we u when we actually put people to a pedestal to that level, it obviously invalidates their humanity, that they're fallible, that they have issues.

It relinquiss us from introspection from why we rev reviewing them, and it totally creates a form of. Not being able to relate to human beings as thought human beings. So there's a whole lot of problems that go on when we revere [00:11:00] anyone, mothers, fathers, whoever. And that level of superiority. And that was really what's happening in my family context where because mom was revealed as the caretaker of the family, it allowed my father permission to feel like, well, if she's got it covered, I don't have to worry about that.

I can get my emotional needs fulfilled elsewhere and sexual obviously needs, which created a whole lot of other problems. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah. And you, did you have any brothers and sisters? I have two older brothers. Two older brothers. So all of you, you're watching, whether it's conscious or not, you're learning a model and your model was dysfunction.

And then that carries through to our lives. Unless we make a conscious, I. Intentional decision to change. So continue with your story. So your mom is molesting you, your dad's, you know, philandering. Everything seems great to everybody else but you, and maybe your brothers are not, you know, you know what the reality is.

Or [00:12:00] actually, let's talk about them real quick. Was were they being molested as well? Were they or were they left alone? 'cause they were boys. 

Denise G Lee: They were left alone. They were boys. As soon as they were able to, they were gone from sunrise to sunset. My, my mother would rant and made disparaging comments about boys and how boys were useless, and she used me as her human Barbie doll.

I didn't find out later until, I think I was 15, 16, that my, my mother is the only girl of like seven boys, and when my mother was growing up, her father died at an early age, and there was no doubt in my mind, I don't have proof of it. I have no doubt that one of those boys either molested her or she was involved in something discu dysfunctional because how else would someone match and model molestation if they didn't experience it themselves?

David Pasqualone: Yeah. Statistically, that's just my thought. No, and that statistics back that up. [00:13:00] I mean, usually hurting people hurt, right? And people who are molested, unless again, they make a distinct and conscious choice to change, they continue the cycle. I mean, there are people who have every privilege given to them in the world, and they're just a psycho, right?

But chances are your mom was molested from what you're saying, especially if she knew the dad in the home to protect her. 

Denise G Lee: So it puts a lot of context to it. My husband and I have been talking throughout the, uh, course of our marriage. We've been married 13, 13 years. I said, I never quite understood what, what was happening.

He sent me a very interesting article from the B, BC, and it was talking about mental illness crisis in Sierra Leone, and there was a huge stigma. About mental health issues and to the point where there was in Freetown, the capital of Sierra Leone, they only had one psychiatric hospital. Everyone who was referred to was stigmatized.

Like, you're crazy. [00:14:00] You're, you're stupid. You're, and so imagine growing up in the fifties, sixties, in Sierra Leone, and they now present day, there's only one psych psychiatric hospital. Imagine the lack of resources, mental health that she must have had my mother growing up in Sierra Leone. So odds are extremely high.

She went through horrific things herself as a child. And there was no support for her. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. No doubt. So again, what we don't know what happened to somebody else that made them who they are. And even if we do, they just like us. They need to make a conscious decision to be better, to change, to do.

Right. But let's talk about your life. So you are in this situation, bring us from your youth through let's, you know, through today. 

Denise G Lee: Yeah. And I'm, I'm really glad, you're absolutely important to say that we can't control or suppose [00:15:00] whatever, but I want the listeners watching us to understand that there's always context about what's happening around you, even if you don't understand that.

It really helped informed my trauma healing by understanding more about what was happening during that timeframe. So that being said, so I'm in this environment, let's where there the unacceptable is trying to be modeled as acceptable. And during that timeframe, David, like I was extremely struggling from, with a lot of emotions.

I had a lot of suicidal ideations. I cut myself ritualistically as a form of re of release. It's very common for trauma, uh, who are going through trauma or chronically stressful to find some form of self-harming rituals, which I chronically did. I also was very suspicious and paranoid [00:16:00] and angry, very short-tempered with people who interacted with me in school.

I wanted to get outta school badly, so badly, David, that I actually graduated a year early from high school so I could get out because I thought the problem was the kids around me, that the adults, the grownups, had it all figured out. Now I'm 43 years old realizing that even the grownups don't have it figured out.

David Pasqualone: Yeah, no. I was just telling my girlfriend yesterday, I was like, I'm 48. I think I'm going to die at 96. And she's like, why? I said, 'cause I think I'm having a midlife crisis. Not like most people, I'm going to go buy a car or go crazy or morally defunct, but I'm re like looking at my life deeply the last few weeks.

And I'm just like, huh? And it's like what you were just saying, it's like you, you ha I [00:17:00] don't know. When you're growing up, you think it's somebody else's problem. You think when you're older, all the problems will go away. But if you don't resolve things, whether you're 12 or 22 or 82, they're still going to linger.

Right? 

Denise G Lee: What we do as adults is do our best grownup impersonation of the people around us. And to the society around me to culture. I mean, I was absolutely dysfunctional, but I was scoring a plus in terms of my behavior because it was matching and mirroring everything I saw growing up around me. No one challenged me.

No one corrected me. No one helped me to learn how to self-soothe. When I mean self-soothe me, making sure that I understand what's possible, what's realistic. Everything is not going to blow up. I don't need to spazz out just because someone said something that irritated me. I can find ways to calm myself that doesn't revolve binge watching reacher.

[00:18:00] Okay, if that reaches, you're saying whatever speech is my husband. I like that 

David Pasqualone: show. I gotta be honest with you. The last season ended great. He took a beating, but he made it out.

I'm not going to lie. I do like that show. 

Denise G Lee: So we as adults learn what is acceptable. If we don't find anyone else to challenge it. So it was acceptable. Doesn't matter if we're yelling and screaming or, or picking fights or it's acceptable if we don't have anyone interrupting that. And for me, everyone either benefited because they were, they were abusing me.

I casually mentioned that in the beginning of our conversation that I was sexually abused by a school counselor many years. Uh, from 17 to 19, I have a lot of memories of doing inappropriate things with a man that's old enough to be my father because he was the father figure that I didn't have. I had many, many [00:19:00] situations where I just didn't feel safe and loved and understood.

And I thought that the only way to be appreciated and I found out super quick was through my body. Yep.

David Pasqualone: Then the people that should be helping you guide you and teach you and being like, no, those people like take advantage of it. So it's pretty sad. So you are now 19 years old. You've been in a dysfunctional family growing up, you've been molested by your family, you've been molested by a counselor, I'm sure relationships, you know, weren't, you weren't having strong, healthy relationships dating in high school.

You know, not to be mean, but you can tell me if I'm wrong, but statistically I'm sure they were very dysfunctional. So where's your life? Go from there, Denise. 

Denise G Lee: So I am in, remarkably in [00:20:00] college, remarkably. And the only reason why I say that was because my father gave me an ultimatum. He 'cause now I'm just myself and my father and one.

Two, uh, two of my brothers were all living together. This was before my eldest brother was kicked out, became homeless, then went into his a group home, which he still lives there to this day. He said, you, you have a choice. You either go to college or you find a job and you move out. And I decided, well, I'm saying what 

David Pasqualone: happened to your mother?

Like, we jumped a huge gap right there. 

Denise G Lee: Yeah. Well, you said 19. So we're at 19. Oh, whoa. Okay. Hold on. 

David Pasqualone: This is, this is your show, and if there's something you need to share, you share it. But if we like skip something that's important you Yeah. By all means, share it. 

Denise G Lee: Yeah. So, well, at 14, I went to foster care for about a [00:21:00] year.

Through the foster care system, I try to kill myself. The foster care mother got so freaked out, called the hospital. I went into a psychiatric hospital. So I guess I'm the only family member that went, finally got graduated into a psychiatric hospital and badge of honor, I guess. Um, excluding my, um, other oldest brother.

But anyway, so through a fluke of the system, after I got discharged from the psychiatric hospital, I was released back to the custody of my mother. Now my mother, even though she was not, I finally had my own bedroom. I live in my own room. Her behavior was still erratic. My father left the home at that point.

He just was done pretending to be good father. So he, he went to move in with a girlfriend. Which I came to find out later, he was actually freeloading off of her, which created a lot of resentment with [00:22:00] her. That's a different story. So I'm living with my mother and I'm, but she is still verbally abusive.

She's still volatile. She's still having her manic episodes where she's either high, let's go on to shopping spree, writing bad checks, or she's manic stripping, buck naked, walking around the house naked.

She still wanted to provoke me into engaging with her sexually, despite the fact of everything that went happen. I, so I call my father repeatedly every weekend saying, please come get me. Please come get me. Niecy, that's what he called me. He said, Niecy, I'll come get you. I got up, got dressed, walked in front of the mirror.

Oh, sorry. Walked in front of the front doors and this there we had a little sitting mirror and waited for [00:23:00] hours every Saturday. I did this for almost two years, waiting for my father to come. Every weekend he promised I'd come. He never came once.

Every weekend I would, every during the week, I would use my spare mon bus money. Go see him at the bank. He said, yeah, I'll come see you. Yeah, let's spend time with each other. Never did. It wasn't until I called the police, because my mother tried to come after me with a butcher knife. Oh, not sorry, not butcher knife, a box cut a knife that the police took me away and I moved with my father and I never saw her again.

I never saw my mother again until briefly 19, where she moved in with us for a short, a weekend. A weekend only. I kept myself locked into my, my bedroom, and I never saw her. I never heard her voice since I was. In her presence since then. I talked to her briefly when I was 25, 26, but I've never heard from her ever since.

She sends me emails every once in a while, but we don't really have a relationship for obvious reasons. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah. So [00:24:00] we, we jumped around because my fault not yours, I, but your mother clearly has mental illness. Yeah. And then your brother, you said he still lives in a home to this day. Yeah. Would you say that he, okay.

Basically what I'm saying is do you think it was abuse and learned behavior, or do you think there is actually an inherited, uh, tendency towards the mental illness? Like, what do you think the situation is? And did your old, did your other brother have any mental illness? 

Denise G Lee: I have two older brothers. I, we'll just call them A and B to protect their privacy.

Yeah. Uh, so B the oldest lives in a group. Home a is a functional alcoholic. 

David Pasqualone: So both of them, whether it's inherited or learned, they're carrying the burdens of the childhood. 

Denise G Lee: Both of them. Correct. Both of them are not married. Both of them don't [00:25:00] have kids. Both of them have never had a long-term healthy relationship with a woman.

Both of 'em have carry misogynist, misogynist views towards women. I don't, I don't blame 'em. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah. So they've never dealt with what's going on, so they're stuck. Okay. Well then keep going with your story. Keep, keep moving on your dad. It breaks my heart. I had a dad who wasn't around, never came and saw me. I, I had real issues and didn't pick up the phone to call me for 20 years.

Um, I have a decent relationship with him now, but it, it hurt, you know, you love, you wanna know your dad, but it doesn't happen. You called him every week and he didn't even come back. I don't get that. Like, you know, for a, a dad to not get their child had, did he ever talk to you about that? Like what his reasoning was?

Was it pure selfishness? Was it, what was his explanation when you moved in with him? Or did he never explain? 

Denise G Lee: He never explained. He [00:26:00] always sidestepped changed subjects. That's just not his vibe. Accountability. 

David Pasqualone: And he probably had a bad background, crappy dad too, so I don't 

Denise G Lee: know. He never talked about it.

David Pasqualone: No. That's even more likely than Right. All right. That's not funny, but it's funny, like my dad had a crappy dad. It, and it transfers down. Right. Hopefully you and I break the cycle and we're good parents, but, um, go on then. So you move with your dad and your, your brother was there at that time. One of them.

Denise G Lee: So I do have to share, there's a little bit of intermission before we're all living together. Uh, I'm living in about a year in Alexander Virginia with his ex-girlfriend, and I didn't find out until drunken rage from the girlfriend saying, your son of a bitch father doesn't even pay rent. I've been paying to take you to get your hair done.

And doing stuff like that. He promised he'd pay me, I want you and him [00:27:00] out.

David Pasqualone: Wow. So you had no idea what's going on. She shouldn't have taken it out on you, but you said your dad was a banker. I'd assume he made good money. Did he just waste it on philandering? 

Denise G Lee: Yeah. Yeah. Just because somebody's managing money doesn't mean mean they manage their own 

David Pasqualone: well. Oh yeah. When I was in college, I worked at a.

Retail electronics outlet and you'd buy a computer and there'd be people coming in. Now $250,000 today is pretty good. $250,000 back then was at least like 500,000. They're making good money. The financial advisors, nine out of 10 times Denise made insane money, but they blew it all. And their credit was so bad they couldn't even get a computer.

And I thought, these are the [00:28:00] people that wanna manage my money. Yeah, forget that. So I didn't invest for like 30 years of my life because of what I saw. And you're seeing that with your dad makes money at the bank and doesn't give you any of your spends at all. That's tough. 

Denise G Lee: He, I hate to say this, but it's true.

So my father was part of the, uh, impetus towards the, a great recession that we had. Oh, oh 4, 0 5, 0 6, he was writing those shady, um, underwriting loans that help, helped cave in the system. So he knew how to move money and manipulate it, but he didn't know how to manage his own money or for darn, I mean, it was, he was so bad with his financial mismanagement.

He, when he got a woman pregnant, I actually paid for his engagement ring because I thought she needed one. 

David Pasqualone: Oh man. And how old were you at that point? 19. [00:29:00] I'm so sorry, Denise. All right, well let's keep going with your story. We got a lot to cover and we wanna get to the practical steps of not only did you suffer this abuse, but here's steps of how to recover from it.

So our listeners who are tracking with you and they know exactly what you're talking about to a deep level, they know how to maybe get the help that we all need, but like, you know your brother, he's suffering. 

Denise G Lee: Yeah. He's 

David Pasqualone: suffering. The difference between the difference between you and him is you took the steps to get out of it.

So let's keep going. 

Denise G Lee: I don't think I took the steps. I think I was forced through the providence of God Almighty, because through all these events, I was either through court ordered into therapy or some type of intervention where I required, I had to go through some therapy. And I remember I had a therapist that was 19 times.

She said, Denise. You need to leave out your house, you need to go. And I said, where would I go? I'm just a college student, I can't afford this. And then shortly after she said that, I kid you not, David. What? My father made the announcements. My bank has been [00:30:00] sold to this bigger corporation. I'm moving to North Carolina in a month.

I don't. And that was it. And so I wasn't even allowed the choice of like leaving on my own accord. It was God's providential like power that extracted me through that situation. And I had the primer through that therapist at that time. I didn't wanna get well, I had remarkably God protected and shielded me throughout those moments.

David Pasqualone: Yeah. And that's a huge statement. You didn't want to get well at that point in life. And so many times we're beaten and abused so badly that we start believing the lie from seeing that we're worthless and this is what we deserve. And it's like we almost self-sabotage on top of all the crap happening to us, and it's a vicious, horrible, downward spiral of a cycle.

So all things worked together for good to them that love God to those who called according to his [00:31:00] purpose. God loves everybody. In this case, ladies and gentlemen, you know, God kept moving Denise in a direction to give her help, even though she didn't want it at that point, but she still had to make the choice to accept it or not.

So God's there for all of us, and we pray, we talk to God, we read our Bible, he speaks to us and he speaks to us through a lot of ways. But those are the two primary ways we communicate. So Denise, go ahead with your story. You're, you're talking to this lady, you're dad's like, I'm leaving, get out. Where do you go from there?

Denise G Lee: I live with my brother briefly, brother A, uh, I'm living with brother a briefly. I'm thinking that I see porn all over the house. Remarkably, he tried to keep it clean while I was there, and within a couple of months I found a, my first, the series of, uh, roommates and boarding house situations. And even [00:32:00] though I'm live, I'm living away from my nuclear family.

I have all the good training from them to continue alcoholism, full-blown sex edition. Well, I always was a sex addict, honestly, from age 15 on, but I was able to flourish in that, um, a along, along people who were inter trying to introduce me to lesbianism, all sorts of things. And I was just so hungry to be loved.

That I just went along with it. I was, when I, right when I graduated from college, I was engaged with a man that was involved over, over a year with another man, and he said that he's, he's done, he's over with that. And I never really could shake out the idea that he probably still was gay. He was just trying to appease his mother that he was involved with a witch.

I just, I was involved with all the people that would actually would've [00:33:00] for cost me to literally just execute my desire to end my life basically through these very toxic situations. And not to say that I wasn't toxic myself, I surely was, but throughout those moments, David, I actually was going to church.

I went to Roman Catholic Church. I prayed on occasion. I just somehow believed that. Someone was protecting me even when I was on a self-destruction mission.

David Pasqualone: And then, you know, the body of Christ, the true church is perfect, but on earth we have tons of churches and savvy. You know, if you read Revelation talks about, uh, seven churches and most of 'em aren't good. Okay? So just because someone calls themselves a church, that doesn't mean they're actually preaching and speaking and living the Bible.

So ladies and gentlemen, if you're out, I don't care where you are in the [00:34:00] world, if you're seeing someone say one thing and not living, you know, we can all have areas where weak, that's not what I'm saying, but when the Bible says, for who source, called upon name of Lord shall be saved. That's it. It's just trusting Christ and you are saved.

And if they're like, no, you need to give us money and you need to show up seven times a week, and they're adding works to the Bible or they're changing things or they're worse, they're saying The Bible isn't true. Trust me, not the Bible. Get out. That's a bad place. Get out. So you are in the Roman Catholic Church, which you know, I grew up outside of Boston.

My family was Roman Catholic. I don't go to Roman Catholic Church because I don't believe what they teach. I believe the Bible. And that doesn't mean there aren't great people who are Roman Catholics. That doesn't mean people who are Roman Catholics haven't trusted Christ. But I've gone to Roman Catholic church many, many times and you're not getting the whole gospel.

You're not getting the whole truth there, in my opinion. And I think that lines up with [00:35:00] scripture. What are your thoughts on that, Denise? 

Denise G Lee: I believe that there is so much rituals and perform mystic. Type of energy into that, the whole gospel gets lost into it. And no one hears stuff like Ephesians three 17 through 19, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith.

And I pray that you be rooted and established in love may have power together with all the lord's holy power to grasp how wide and long and high, high and deepest, the love of Christ. And to know that this love suppresses knowledge that you maybe feel to the measure of the fullness of God. Like you don't hear any of that in in Roman Catholic.

You're just busy reciting like rituals and stuff like that. So I thought being there, doing the performance would try to quell all the anxiety and the self pity and the shame I felt on myself. And it never did. Shockingly, I'm sorry, I'm being sarcastic as I [00:36:00] say that. 

David Pasqualone: That's fine. Be you. No, and that's just it.

I mean, if I need, uh, vitamin D in my system and I take every other vitamin. I'm going to be depleted still. I still have vitamin D deficiency, right? And if you're going to any religious institution and you're not getting the real vitamins and the real nutrients of the Bible, you're going to be sick. So when you now are in church, you're searching for truth in a way, but at the same time, you're you, you're living in a bad situation.

Like you said, you weren't surround toxic people. You were toxic. Take us from there through today. 

Denise G Lee: I had a series of situations where people were obviously ignoring or belittling me because, to be honest with you, David, I was not well mentally. And there came to a point where I was in the therapist session, again, different therapist, and she fired me because she said, you [00:37:00] know what?

I don't really know what to do with you. Here's a pamphlet to go to Sexologist Anonymous. It's a 12 step spinoff of Alcoholics Anonymous. She gave me a big brief quiz where I literally, if I, this was a test, I would've gotten an eight outta 10. I said, the only things I said no to was I never sexually abused a child and I never got jailed, but I could have gone jail for the behavior that I did.

Finally went to a room with people who weren't buying my excuses and my drama, and laughed at me when I tried to sidestep and ade it and say, Hey, look, we're here because we were where you are. And worse come get. Well come learn who God really is. And that was a start. I was 26 and that was the start of my healing journey.

To be honest with you, I didn't really start really growing up until I was 38. Despite being married, despite having a child. I remember my husband a few years ago, honestly told me, he said, when [00:38:00] we, the first few years we were married, I thought about trying to put you away. 'cause I didn't know if you were able to be functional as an adult.

But somehow I was able to still not sever myself from Holy Spirit, not sever myself, that I was built for a purpose. And I just kept searching for more ways to understand my past, more ways to understand myself. And it came to the point where I had to realize that my desire to kill myself or hate myself, or being around angry people was my anger towards God.

And I had to put to the throne all that pain and really talk to my father about what was really happening. When I say my father, I'm not talking about my physical earthly father. I'm talking about my Heavenly Father. Our Heavenly Father. 

David Pasqualone: Absolutely. Absolutely. And then, what was the name? I know that like Alcoholics Anonymous [00:39:00] is pretty universal globally.

Mm-hmm. What was the name of the sexual version of that, that you went to? Sexaholics 

Denise G Lee: Anonymous. And I did go to AA briefly. I've been, um, my first sponsor and Sexaholics Anonymous said, Denise, you've got an alcohol problem. I said, no, I don't have an alcohol problem. Everyone drinks 2, 3, 4, 5 glasses a night to sleep.

David Pasqualone: Yeah. And I've been, I actually went to a lot of AA meetings and the content in it is fantastic. Um, it doesn't matter who you are, it's great. From what I saw, the people I met, the content that was delivered. It's stuff every human needs and you can apply it in so many ways. Um, a lot of people, especially, you know, no one in the Bible call themselves a Christian.

It says they were first called Christians at Antioch and Acts. But you have all these people say, I'm a Christian. I'm a Christian. They make fun of programs like aa, they've never been, so they're talking [00:40:00] ignorantly and they have so many more problems, you know, the, the mode and the beam. Right. But I've personally been to AA meetings.

Um, I got a, I got a degree in, in counseling and leadership, and that was part of the curriculum. So for like three months I was going to all these different meetings and it was fantastic quality content. And like you said, that was really the catalyst in your healing journey, right, Denise? 

Denise G Lee: Absolutely. It was the point where like, step number one, I had admit a problem.

Number two, believe that a power greater than me can re come to take me to sanity. And I didn't even know what sanity was. I knew whats sanity. I knew insanity, like I got that on lock, but I didn't understand that there was something, someone bigger than me that can be able to find the message and the mess.

Because up until that point, I was just jumping from one chaotic [00:41:00] situation to another. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah. And what you know is what you know, and it's hard. Like there's people, I don't, I can go the rest of my life without drinking. I never really drank my entire life. And I'm totally fine with that. There's zero desire.

But like you said, you thought every night, that's just normal. Everybody does it. So it's. It's how you grow up, what you're exposed to. There's so many factors, but it doesn't matter if it's relationships, how people interact. It doesn't matter if it's how much you eat, what you eat, it doesn't matter how much you exercise.

Everybody's standard is different based on what they've been exposed to. So you had a horrible, toxic, just dysfunctional background. And so if you saw your dad and your mom and you are like, well, wow, this is so much better than what they were like, so I must be super healthy, right? Like you might have actually thought you were healthy.

Is that correct? Or did you Absolutely, [00:42:00] yeah. Like you said, the Sexaholics we're telling you you're an alcoholic. That's classic. Now let me ask you a question about that program. I'm speaking in ignorance. I've never been to a Sexaholics class. I always worried, and this is just, I. Base knowledge two plus two equals four with Alcoholics Anonymous.

Most alcoholics drink alone, so going to a social group is giving you support to get out of it. But Sexaholics, they might just be shopping for their next experience. How do, am I wrong? Am I like, like I said, you even see movies, they make a joke of it, sex sexaholics, and they all get together afterwards and then do the stuff they just said they weren't going to do.

How was that program? Do they really safeguard it? Are the people really trying to help or is it just a shopping store? 

Denise G Lee: It every meeting's different. Right. I'm not going to sit here and say, the [00:43:00] meetings that I went to is like the standard. I hope it is, but I can't, I won't generalize it. 'cause there's always anomalies in every situation.

But the place that I, the, the meetings that I went to, it was not an area where everyone's kind of scoping each other out and sizing up each other. I mean, there are people who, I was around men who were, uh, CEOs of Fortune one hundreds that got kicked out the last week and we're trying to figure out where to stay.

I had people that were, had sobriety for 20 years and have been absent sexually. There were so many different verity. There's people who were just trying to figure out their lives. There. There was various degrees of sobriety, but everyone in that room knew that if they were going to stay in that room, they had to play by the rules.

David Pasqualone: Gotcha. And it was okay. They do safeguard it. Like, if you don't follow this and you know, you two hook up, you're both out. 

Denise G Lee: If the leader knows about it. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah, 

Denise G Lee: if the leader knows about it. And [00:44:00] besides, you couldn't even really do that because if you were working the program correctly, you had a sponsor and accountability so that it even happened to the first, in the first place.

And we have safeguards like for example, they, it wasn't specifically said this, but I learned super quick when I went to there. You don't wear tight fitting clothes, you're not staring at each other's genitals. You look eyes up, eyeball to eyeball. I had to learn that. I used to look at my, the, the breast size comparing of one my, myself to other women because I was so engaged in that mindset that it was normalized.

So I had to relearn how to interact with another human being as a human being. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah. Cool. Yeah, that makes me feel a lot more comfortable. 'cause Alcoholics Anonymous, I, and even Narcotics Anonymous in most places, they're fantastic programs. But just my [00:45:00] ignorance, I was always a little like skeptical of sexaholics anonymous.

'cause I'm like, uh, wait a second here. You're just, Hey, I got a sex addiction. You get a sex addiction, let's go home together tonight. It's like, I didn't know how it worked. So that's really good to hear. Thank you. So now you get to this, you start seeing the growth and you start, he seeing there's differences and, oh wow, this isn't normal.

Where does your life go from there, Denise? I, 

Denise G Lee: I was still combat, I was still paranoid, suspicious and angry. I still had those unhealed trauma wounds. So even the fact, the fact that I was learning to interact like a, an adult, I was still had a form of arrested development. So I struggled at work. When I was still working in corporate America, I still was struggling with personal relationships, bailing the moment that someone irritated me.

I wouldn't say that I was really thriving. I think I was just getting to a base level of emotional maturity. [00:46:00] I wasn't ready, re ready to start confronting some really ugly, nasty things. So I started to really engage in until my late thirties. 

David Pasqualone: Okay. And did you meet your husband in your early thirties? Did you meet him after the thirties?

Where? When did you meet him? 29. 

Denise G Lee: I met him at 29. We got married at 30, so he was witnessing full tilt, my emotional development. 

David Pasqualone: Okay. Okay. All right. And then keep going with your story. Bring us through to today. 

Denise G Lee: So it was at 38 that I decided to take some business coaching courses instead of trying to wing it all the time.

And I had to coaches that actually said, here, I want you to do constructive journaling work. And I was like, what's constructive journaling work? And it was where they asked some really honest questions about who you are, your self-worth, what made you believe certain things about yourself. And so even though I, when I was married with my husband, I didn't go to Sexaholics [00:47:00] Anonymous.

I stopped going there. It was a reboot, a continuation of what I should have continued to do in my emotional healing work. And it was there, I was forced to start really revisiting the feelings of insecurity and, uh, feeling as if I had to compare myself, all those other stuff. And it brought me to a place where I had to start doing a deep dive on who I really was as a child of God, as a wife, as a mother.

And then I just started reading more about, uh. Cognitive behavioral therapy, transactional analysis, psychology, emotional development. I just started reading veraciously to fig really figure things out, not from a place of fear, not place of judgmental, but a place of healing. It was where I started getting more involved in reading scripture, not just surface level stuff.

Starting to memorize scripture was me really trying to bask in all the ways that [00:48:00] God was trying to make me heal from the, from age 19 when I finally stopped living with my family members. 

David Pasqualone: So where did that tr, okay, when did you get involved in this process with reading the scripture or maybe finding a church that was feeding you the Bible, the word of God, so you could experience true growth?

Where, where did that fit in the story? 

Denise G Lee: It's so, it's so funny, David, because when I was in my mid twenties, I, I had the blessing and I didn't realize it at the time. I was always in Bible from age 25 4. I was in Bible believing, Bible teaching church. I was in McLean Bible Church, very famous megachurch in the DC area.

And then I, when I went moved to Virginia with my husband, I was in another Bible church. I, now, I'm, I'm living in central Texas and I go to Hill Country Bible Church, the Bible, another Bible teach kind of that Southern Baptist Bible style. And so we [00:49:00] really, really reading out the Bible and there was places where you can do Bible study and I was in group lead, but I didn't, I, I kept an emotional distance between what God's word said and how I live my life for many, many, many, many years.

And it wasn't until most recently I said, God, I think I need to take over. I think you need to take over. My life. I wanted a complete overhaul, and that meant that instead of getting my wisdom and advice from Instagram reels, I could be getting my, my reels from, from, from, from scripture. And so it was a surrender of not trying to half step my relationship with God and bringing all my hurts and my pains and my concerns to him.

I could not be able to heal emotionally and start until I started to heal spiritually. [00:50:00] And I didn't realize how spiritually bankrupt I was. Yeah. 

David Pasqualone: And you probably never knew it. I mean, and sometimes even worse, like, did your mom and dad take you to church when you were a child? 

Denise G Lee: I had a problem with church in the sense of really believing anything because my mother would sit me down and read Psalm 92 and then she would molest me 

David Pasqualone: that I was ju That's where I was just going to go with that.

I was like, I bet your home was either completely void of all things God and holy, or it was a complete hypocrisy where they'd sing one thing and then molest you, and then you just said, that's what your mom did. I'm so sorry, Denise. Um, she'd actually read you the Bible before she molested you 

Denise G Lee: Sometimes after.

It depends on where she was. I didn't have my own bed until I was 20. Um, I'm sorry. I didn't have my own bed until I was 14, and I just remember always crossing my legs when I went to sleep. I never realized. And my husband was like, why are you, I remember when we first started sleeping with each other and he would touch [00:51:00] me.

I, I would literally go cross both legs, legs, arms. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah.

Hmm. Okay. So now if people are listening, you know, we're talking story-wise, but putting the pieces together in your life, in your story, you know, I may not, it will work for everybody actually. God always works for everybody. But really, if I'm hearing you, I'm going to go through kind of a checklist really quick for our listeners.

And you told me if I made the order wrong or if I'm totally wrong, you start acknowledging you had problems. You sought qualified help and got sources from AA to Sexaholics Anonymous to, um, you start finding a Bible, believe in church, and then. When you're here, now you're getting all the knowledge.

You're accepting, okay, I do have an issue. You're seeing [00:52:00] a clear standard, right? You get your bowel, there's a clear standard of what a normal healthy life is, and now you're seeing your life doesn't match up. But what were the steps you started taking? Like actionable steps? Like what did you start doing to change?

Denise G Lee: I had first and foremost, David, to thaw out, to thaw out. And what I mean by thaw out, I mean I literally had to stop consuming the things that were numbing me out. It was the alcohol, it was, it wasn't the pornography, it was the lust. It was the objectifying myself and objectifying other human beings. It was being able to acknowledge that I had addiction to anger.

A lot of people are addicted to anger. They, and then it comes in the forms of, you know, binge watching politics or all sorts of stuff. That's a whole different sidebar. But I had to admit that I had an anger addiction. I had to admit that no matter how hard I wanted to control, I had no control of anyone, let alone myself.

I [00:53:00] had to believe that they were someone, someone out there that was not physical, that could be my savior. I always was trying to find people to be a surrogate for my own emotional development, or to be able to say the right words to calm me down and self-soothe me. I had to learn how to rely upon my father.

I had to learn to be able to bring my concerns to him. I had to be able to be honest about my own junk, how I, not just how people sin against me, how I sin about other people. I had to learn how to have compassion. I had to learn context. I mentioned earlier in our conversation about what was happening in the fifties, sixties, and Sierra Leone.

I had to really understand what was happening with my father. Why would he seek emotional comfort outside? Why was he unable to relate with me? That context matters so that I remove myself from a victim to a victor, and I had to keep continuing to surrender my wills, my anxieties, my [00:54:00] judgment to the foot of the cross, and realizing that we're all fallible, 

David Pasqualone: right?

So now that's excellent. And our listeners get a good grasp. Take us from where we left off to today, Denise, and your story. 

Denise G Lee: So right now, obviously it's a lot different. I mean, if you, unless most people say, well, unless I didn't know your story, I couldn't believe you were. You went through all of that. And I don't sit here from a place of bragging saying, well, yes, if you follow my 10 steps, you could be just like me.

Click the link below. Like that's not the message that I have to share. It's a message of sharing what I have learned and being very open and honest and transparent about it. I mean, that's kind of why we're having this conversation, David. That's why I'm very open on my own podcast, introvert entrepreneur, about, that's why I write so prolifically about how you can heal from what you've gone through.

Because if I can [00:55:00] do it, so can you. It may not be in the way I did it and the sequence for sure, but there is a way out. If you first and foremost know that God loves you.

David Pasqualone: Yeah. And that's the most powerful, the most powerful thing in the world is love. So your husband and you got married, he's with you for this journey. Yeah. And obviously you're both growing together and I'm sure he has his issues. You're helping him through. He's helping you through. What's your marriage look like today?

Denise G Lee: Unbeknownst to me, in the beginning of our marriage, we were both addicted to porn. I didn't even know I was silently looking at porn. He was silent looking at porn. We didn't find out in the middle of our marriage. Hey, you were looking at porn too.[00:56:00] 

It is freaking amazing. Now I am sober from alcohol. Uh, about my, since my son, I was pregnant with my son, so nine years I've been sober, nine, actually 10 years. So sober for 10 years. I am coming and being honest with my husband about my wants and my desires. I'm not trying to manipulate him into doing things the way I observed my mother behave.

I am speaking with respect as he is the head of the household. Shocker, I can't believe we're saying that in 2025. I respect my husband. I let him lead me. I have to say that even though we're on a Christian podcast, I just have to say that, 'cause even in Christian circles that a lot wouldn't wanna control their men.

Go ahead. I'm sorry. Oh 

David Pasqualone: yeah. They're wearing their, you know, skin tight yoga pants, their $30 cup of coffee, and they're leading the family and thinking they're totally, I'm the king. I'm the king, I'm the queen. You know, I'm in charge. It's, it's everywhere. These days, [00:57:00] men are weak and women are strong, is what the media says.

And the, the church even allow. So I'm, I'm right there with you. And I'm not saying that as a misogynist. I'm saying that as a man, because I am happiest and most fulfilled with a proper balance. You are happiest and most fulfilled when there's a balance. If your husband wasn't the right man and you're the right woman, it throws the whole balance off.

And God didn't. Men and women are created equal, biblically, but they're different. My liver and my heart, I love 'em both. They both do different jobs. They're both crucial. But they have different jobs. So that's how a husband and a wife should be. And there is an order to things to protect the wife, to protect the woman.

And it's like when you live in the way God intended, it's a beautiful, fulfilling, amazing world. But these seen lies get into people, men [00:58:00] and women, and they, they put things out of order and all sorts of crap happens. So you are saying you're happy following the biblical order? Well, that's normal. I'm, I'm happy for you.

Denise G Lee: You know, I grew up in the nineties where Beyonce sits independent women. Put your ring on wi, you know, put the ring on my finger. If you wanna be with me beyond, uh, Whitney Husam. I'm every woman. I was listening to all of that, but you know what, that's a, a stands up for broken emotionally bankrupt woman.

And if you don't question it, you will find yourself angry, bitter, and resentful. And caretaking. A grown man. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah. And Beyonce. Isn't she a sane worshiper? Outright, like she's open about it. And then, uh, Whitney Houston died of a drug overdose and was a train wreck of a human life. So it's like, I used to tell my friends this when I was in, when I got saved, I got saved when I was 15.[00:59:00] 

And I would say, why are you listening to this trash music? You wouldn't listen to this guy speak and follow his advice, but you're over and over and over again allowing him to program your brain where you don't even know consciously. You're going to start thinking that way subconsciously. And then consciously you're going to start thinking that psychos way.

And like you said, these women are like, I'm every woman or woman, this woman that. And it's like, men are great, women are great, everybody's great. We gotta do what we're built to do. Though 

Denise G Lee: it feels a lot better for me, for my nervous system. To allow a man to be a man to only ex. So I had a so many wonderful therapists that I've learned through over the years.

One of them was Dr. Pat Allen, if she's still alive. Uh, she always said that women get what they want by knowing what they don't want by leading with their feelings. Men get what they want by [01:00:00] knowing what they want and having the guts to fall through with their thoughts. If I am leading with my, with my feelings and letting my husband make the decisions, everything works out and it's biblical.

Actually, I didn't even really realize it at the time, and so I feel better when I don't feel as if I need to say anything unless it's morally as a moral or ethical legal issue. I shut my mouth up and I'm cool with that. I know it's not what culture says, but that's how I lead and it supports my emotional, my psychological, my spiritual health.

David Pasqualone: Yeah, and I, and like I said, I don't know my, I've been with the same amazing woman for four years and we were talking the other night, like, I was like, I'm always super, I'm overly considerate and that's something I need to work on. 'cause again, if I'm overly considerate, she's feeling a form of insecurity.

And we were talking about going to dinner and she's like, Dave, she's like all week [01:01:00] long. I think about, you know, what do I need to make to take care of the kids and this and this and this, and all these decisions. She's like, you just make a decision and that makes me feel better. She's like, if I don't like it, I'll tell you.

But she's like, wherever we go to dinner, she's like, that's one less thing I have to think of. And it's less mental exhaustion. Emotional exhaustion. And I'm like, oh, okay. 48 years summed up in like 30 seconds. Right? But she actually found more peace in me making these decisions. And I just need to trust.

If she doesn't like it, she'll tell me. Not hold a grudge. Right. And but our world, how different is the message? And now you're saying the same thing. You like it when your husband leads? 'cause it gives you that, ah, mental ease and, and, and safety. And wellbeing. 

Denise G Lee: Yeah. I mean, all a woman needs to do of biblically uh, I shouldn't say biblically.

If you, if you, if you want a woman, a woman to saying all, she says, I don't feel good when this happens, don't ask me what I think. Ask me what I feel. [01:02:00] I'm not going to ask you how you feel. I'm going to ask you what you think. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah. I'm not a much of a feeler. I'm much of a thinker. 

Denise G Lee: Yeah. Like right now we're having, we're two dudes talking like energetically right now.

But if, if we were, I mean I obviously you have your own partner. I have my partner. But when, when my husband comes, I am not in my thinking mode. I am my feeling mode. The only time I would engage with my fe feelings with my husband if he's sick or he's in pain and that's it. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah, it makes sense. All right, well, where is Denise G.

Lee today and where are you heading next? And how can we help you get there? 

Denise G Lee: Where I am is at a place of surrender to all the lies that I was exposed to, the lies of culture, a place of acceptance [01:03:00] of how I am made, what I will not tolerate, and what brings me peace. And a little bit of, um, I, I don't know quite how to explain it, but maybe hope, optimism, that if God took me to this place already, what more ahead of is ahead of me?

And so that is exciting, honestly. 

David Pasqualone: It should be. Now if, if someone wants to get ahold of you to continue the conversation, to learn more, to work with you, whatever the case may be, what's the best way and what's the best means to reach you? 

Denise G Lee: Yeah, thank you for asking that. The best place where people can find me is on my website, Denise T.

Lee dot Dale. It's my hub where you can learn more about my story. Obviously I have over 200 like hot posts about depression, anxiety, psychosis, you name it, because I literally was trying to figure [01:04:00] out what was happening to me and no one was explaining it in clean, easy speaking language. And obviously we can connect with my podcast too, if that's something that's interest of them.

David Pasqualone: Yeah. And what's the name of your podcast? And I'll, I'll put in the show notes as always, ladies and gentlemen. But if they went to Spotify or Apple or anywhere where, what would your podcast be named? 

Denise G Lee: Introverted Entrepreneur 

David Pasqualone: podcast. Introverted Entrepreneur podcast. All right. Excellent. Well, Denise, it's been amazing, remarkable, even spending time together between your birth and today.

Is there anything we missed or are there any final thoughts you wanna leave with our community? 

Denise G Lee: I don't want people to sit here and say, wow, she survived a lot. I don't, that's not the whole energy of this conversation. It's more about understanding that we're all remarkable people in small and big ways, and that what you've gone through [01:05:00] is actually not just a series of tests.

It's a testimony to the power and the amazing love of Jesus Christ. 

David Pasqualone: Amen. And there's no better way we can leave the show on that. Right. So ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being here today. Denise, thank you for being here today. It's been a true honor. And ladies and gentlemen, like our slogan says, don't just listen to this great information Denise gave you, but do it.

Repeat it consistently your life each day so you can have a great life in this world. But more importantly for turning to come. So I'm David Pasqualone. This was Denise G. Lee. We love you. We can't wait to hear from you. Please reach out to Denise and myself, share this episode with your friends and family so they can be helped too.

And we'll see you in the next episode, cia. 

Epic Voice Guy: The Remarkable People Podcast, check it out,[01:06:00] 

the Remarkable People Podcast. Listen, do Repeat for Life,

the Remarkable People Podcast.