Publishing to address society’s greatest social challenges

In this episode, Alison Shaw, Chief Executive of Bristol University Press, talks about 25 years of publishing with a purpose to mark the end of the Press’ anniversary celebration year.

Alison speaks to Jess Miles about the past, present and future of the press and its mission to address global social challenges, support positive social change and to be a top-tier University Press recognised for the quality of its contribution.

Click here to watch the Bristol University Press 2021 round up video and read the brochure celebrating its anniversary year.

Bristol University Press/Policy Press newsletter subscribers receive a 35% discount – sign up here.

Transcript

00:00:03 Jess Miles 

The Transforming Society Podcast is brought to you by Bristol University Press and policy parts. In this episode I'm talking to Alison Shaw, chief executive of Bristol University Press, to mark the end of our anniversary celebration year. Allison set up source publications in 1990 when she joined the University of Bristol to disseminate social Policy Research. 

00:00:24 Jess Miles 

This was followed in 1996 with policy press and 25 years on Bristol University Press in 2016, always driven to publish with a purpose by addressing social challenges and promoting social justice. 

00:00:37 Jess Miles 

I'm talking to Allison today about the past, present, and future of the press and our mission to make a scholarly and social contribution to supporting positive change. Hi, Ali. 

00:00:47 Alison Shaw 

Hi, Jess. Lovely to speak to you. 

00:00:49 Jess Miles 

So we're coming to the end of our celebration year of 25 years of policy press and five years of Bristol University Press. 

00:00:56 Jess Miles 

I wanted to start by taking you back to the very beginning. What was your motivation for establishing policy press? 

00:01:03 Alison Shaw 

Well, that does seem a while ago, but yes, 25 years ago, so we had been doing a small team of us, had been working within an academic department called School for grants, urban studies, and had set up a small imprint, as you said, focusing on publishing social and public policy. And at the time. 

00:01:24 Alison Shaw 

There wasn't a lot of. 

00:01:25 Alison Shaw 

To other publishers filling that space, I guess. And I felt very strongly that we were dealing with some of the key issues of our time. You know, we were dealing with a health crisis. It was very similar to to now a household crisis. 

00:01:41 Jess Miles 

What year is this? This is 9. 

00:01:42 Alison Shaw 

So this is in 1995 where we were just about to move into. So we launched officially in 1996. There basically had been a lot of a lot of social change in the 1980s had been particularly tough and we were starting to. 

00:01:57 Alison Shaw 

Kind of come out the other. 

00:02:00 Alison Shaw 

What we were trying to do was to really make the work that we've been engaging with internally within the school, but also in the wider, particularly the UK community at that time, to look at what we could do to challenge inequality, social problems, we right from the start talked about. 

00:02:19 Alison Shaw 

Publishing with a purpose and that tagline has has has remained. 

00:02:21 Jess Miles 

Yes. 

00:02:24 Alison Shaw 

So the focus was very much on trying to take research that was happening around these cool, gritty social problems and get that out to a wider audience. So it was about reaching both other scholars and students, but. 

00:02:39 Alison Shaw 

Also, cutting across to policy and practice and engaging with practitioners and policymakers in order to see what a difference we could make and at that time, you know, we talk. 

00:02:50 Alison Shaw 

About impact way before the the kind of ground impact it was, it was the backbone of what we were trying to trying to do. 

00:02:53 Jess Miles 

There. 

00:02:59 Jess Miles 

It feels like it. You were kind of doing quite a new thing at the time in the mid 90s to be addressing these social issues with the research that in that direct way. 

00:03:08 Alison Shaw 

Yes, I think it felt so at the time in terms of in terms of publishing, you know there was a big focus on journals and textbooks because they were the things that were were proving lucrative for, for for the major commercial presses. 

00:03:25 Alison Shaw 

Thundery and actually the work that was around more specialist research and particularly the work that was bridging academia policy and practice was was pretty hard to find. So actually, yes, I mean it came from the fact that essentially we wanted to make the world a slightly better place. 

00:03:45 Alison Shaw 

And you know, that was that was kind. 

00:03:46 

Yes. 

00:03:47 Alison Shaw 

Of motivation for it. 

00:03:49 Alison Shaw 

But actually in terms of the. 

00:03:51 Alison Shaw 

The publishing landscape at the time and the and the and the research that was going on there was a bit of a niche that we could fill, which we felt was really, really vital actually for, for, in terms of social progress and social change. 

00:04:05 Jess Miles 

Yeah. So when you talk about we who was with you on the original team? 

00:04:10 Alison Shaw 

So. So Julia Mortimer, who's our journalist and OOA director. She was at the time she was the marketing and and sales manager. 

00:04:21 Alison Shaw 

Jeff and Dave Worth, who's been with us again all that time. He's the content delivery manager now and he was he did the typesetting and design work for us, yes. So. And we're still in touch with many members of that original team. And in fact, recently we had a celebratory party. 

00:04:41 Alison Shaw 

For for both the anniversary of 20 years of policy press, but also the five years of Bristol University Press. 

00:04:47 Alison Shaw 

And you know, we got got to to see and meet and talk to various people who've been very important along that along that whole time that we've been growing, growing these publishing houses. 

00:05:00 Jess Miles 

Yeah. So bringing it forward to now and the establishment of Bristol University press, how do you feel that Bristol University press has built on this ground that was established by policy press 25 years ago? 

00:05:14 Alison Shaw 

Well, I think the key thing is that fundamentally we're the same people. We've got the same ethos, the same values, you know with. 

00:05:22 Jess Miles 

The publishing. 

00:05:23 Jess Miles 

The purpose? 

00:05:24 Alison Shaw 

Publishing with the purpose is is still absolutely there and I guess it's taking. I mean by now policy press was very much an international press. It wasn't just focused on the UK and the you know, as it may have been back 25 years ago, but but it was taking this mission, I guess this scholarly and social mission out to a much wider. 

00:05:44 Alison Shaw 

Global audience. I mean, I talk about the values and I think that. 

00:05:50 Alison Shaw 

Being inclusive and purpose driven, you. 

00:05:52 Alison Shaw 

Know is is, is, is. 

00:05:54 Alison Shaw 

Still very much a part of who we are now. You know, having an approach that is always, we like to think supportive and collaborative. I mean we have, we get fantastic feedback honestly weekly from people who work with us about the service. 

00:06:10 Alison Shaw 

That they get and we think that that is absolutely vital to being the kind of publisher that we are. We are incredibly fortunate to be part of a. 

00:06:20 Alison Shaw 

A part of a university, you know we are embedded in the community who you know, which you know who we're serving and that is that is kind of. 

00:06:30 Alison Shaw 

Like, it's really fundamental to who we are and how we how we see the world. You know, we do not create our own product. Other people create that create, create the product which we hopefully add value and you know market and sell and get out into the world and do many, many, many, many other things. 

00:06:51 Alison Shaw 

Around that. But essentially we're there to support. 

00:06:55 Alison Shaw 

Scholars, social commentators, politicians, practitioners, whoever we're working with to get their vital work out into the world so that it's used so that it can help. 

00:07:08 Alison Shaw 

Bring about and or influence social change, which is what we're here for. 

00:07:12 Jess Miles 

Yeah, I always feel like it's that combination of the social mission and the quality and the not-for-profit that I hope it makes us quite unique in lots of ways and to be a channel for that research and. 

00:07:26 Jess Miles 

Amplify it and push it out. There is really important and I work in marketing, so that's a big part of my job. 

00:07:33 Alison Shaw 

You mentioned quality there and I think that quality is absolutely fundamental to what we do. We absolutely believe that anything that we publish has to stand up to rigorous inspection, you know, rigorous analysis. So that is. 

00:07:49 Alison Shaw 

All our processes, all our, you know, everything that we do focuses on that quality and it and and that is throughout the organization I think. 

00:07:53 Jess Miles 

Yeah. 

00:07:58 Jess Miles 

Yeah. And brilliant thing is now we have the imprint of Bristol University Press and the imprint of Policy Press and they sit together quite nicely. I think they each have a different focus. How, how do you feel those two imprints work together now? 

00:08:14 Alison Shaw 

Well, I think I think you know at a very basic level they they look at different kinds of subjects. So you know, yeah, so policy press still has its you know foundation in in social, public policy and kind aligned disciplines that sit around that. It often is focused on you know gritty. 

00:08:34 Alison Shaw 

Social problems that affect individuals, you know, I talked earlier about, you know, health and social care and housing, all the things that you know, actually through the Kobe pandemic have come to. 

00:08:45 Alison Shaw 

The fore do. 

00:08:45 

Yeah. 

00:08:46 Alison Shaw 

People have enough money to live on, you know, where is our welfare safety net? Where? 

00:08:51 Alison Shaw 

Is the Social Security. 

00:08:52 Alison Shaw 

That, you know, it seems to have quite a few holes in it these days and has done for some time, I mean. 

00:08:53 

OK. 

00:08:57 Alison Shaw 

I. 

00:08:58 Alison Shaw 

Think the ukc's response to and actually I have to say several other countries around the world to welfare and to their safety. Net has changed in the time that we've been, we've been publishing and. 

00:09:12 Alison Shaw 

And not necessarily for the for the better. 

00:09:15 Alison Shaw 

So. 

00:09:15 Jess Miles 

I think those holes are getting bigger, aren't they? 

00:09:17 Alison Shaw 

They are. They definitely need, they need a. 

00:09:19 Alison Shaw 

Little bit of. 

00:09:20 Alison Shaw 

Thread to stitch them up, you know. 

00:09:23 Alison Shaw 

And so so yes. So I would say policy press is very much about, you know, individuals welfare and ability to just live a decent life. You know, with enough enough. And I mean, you know, money is so important, having enough money to live on so that you can feed your children. 

00:09:46 Alison Shaw 

And not have to go to a food bank because you you haven't. You know, you just literally don't have. 

00:09:52 Alison Shaw 

Any money to pay bills? 

00:09:53 Alison Shaw 

Is, is is something that we need to be challenging all the time. 

00:09:57 Alison Shaw 

I think where is where where. 

00:09:58 Jess Miles 

In the country. 

00:09:59 Jess Miles 

There's enough money for everyone to be able to feed their children. 

00:10:04 Alison Shaw 

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that that is something that is. 

00:10:09 Alison Shaw 

Yeah. 

00:10:11 Alison Shaw 

Deeply concerning and you know, and of course it's not not just here. And I suppose, you know, that's the key thing with with BP. I mean it's certainly looking at problems from a from a larger global stage. It has a different, wider set of disciplinary focus, you know. 

00:10:29 Alison Shaw 

Around politics and international relations and technology science society, a range of different a a range of different viewpoints. But it particularly is global in its outlook, and one of the things. 

00:10:44 Alison Shaw 

That we really. 

00:10:46 Alison Shaw 

Focus on a lot is interdisciplinarity, transdisciplinarity. 

00:10:50 Alison Shaw 

And that happens both in in in policy press and the UP, but is particularly strong on the P and. 

00:10:58 Alison Shaw 

When we under BP, we talk a lot about global social challenges and when we're thinking about global social challenges, you know, thinking about them. 

00:11:09 Alison Shaw 

In an interdisciplinary way allows for a more rounded. 

00:11:14 Alison Shaw 

A more rounded view on on. 

00:11:16 Alison Shaw 

Social issues, I think. 

00:11:17 Jess Miles 

Yeah. And this focus on global social challenges is actually something that, like you say, we've been doing for the last 25 years just through the establishing Bristol University press, we've been able to just bring that out more, haven't we and? 

00:11:32 Alison Shaw 

Absolutely. I mean if you, you know, if you think about you know the the big, the blue, the big social challenges that affecting global north and the global S, you know that need a global response. I keep using the word global. But you know from the very obvious ones you know you like climate change obviously we've been publishing around climate change for a very long time, but. 

00:11:52 Alison Shaw 

But you know, but it does link into to some of the issues that we've been looking at for policy press for a. 

00:11:58 Jess Miles 

Long time. You know, I think democracy is a big part of it as well. That is kind of democracy conflict. There's so many different areas that global social challenges cover. 

00:12:08 Alison Shaw 

Absolutely, absolutely. And but it fundamentally comes back to. 

00:12:14 Alison Shaw 

You know what does it take to to to kind of live a good life? This is all about the widest social good, I guess is the way of describing it, you know, and that doesn't matter whether you're, you know, you're sitting in Brazil, Australia. You know, one of the African countries. 

00:12:35 Alison Shaw 

You know, or in northern Europe and and fundamentally. 

00:12:39 Alison Shaw 

People should be able to live knowing that they're safe, that they have all their basic needs met so that they can, you know, feed themselves that they're not having to deal with war and conflict, that, you know, their children get an education, that girls. 

00:12:56 Alison Shaw 

Boys, you know, people who are able bodied or you know. 

00:13:00 Alison Shaw 

Whatever kind of. 

00:13:04 Alison Shaw 

Situation people are in are able to access and the what they need in order to be able to lift fundamentally without fear. 

00:13:15 Jess Miles 

That's the thread, isn't it? That social justice bit is what's been the same since 1996, and policy press, and that has threaded all the way through to now. And what Bristol University Press is doing with global social challenges. 

00:13:29 Jess Miles 

Key to that is we're launching a global social challenges journal next year. Could you tell us a little bit about that? 

00:13:37 Alison Shaw 

Yeah, so, so this is a big Open Access journal that is, that is again very international in, in its scope. It is looking at, it's using the lens of the of obviously global social challenges in order to take an interdisciplinary approach to. 

00:13:58 Alison Shaw 

The challenges we we face so you. 

00:14:00 Alison Shaw 

Know that that. 

00:14:02 Alison Shaw 

Could cover and does cover some of the areas that we've just talked about, you know around, for example, you know hunger and poverty or gender justice, justice or those kinds of things. Yeah, it it. It covers a huge range. 

00:14:16 Alison Shaw 

Of different topics. 

00:14:18 Alison Shaw 

And I think the it's great that we've got the most amazing. 

00:14:22 Alison Shaw 

Editorial board the editors in chief are from around the world, China, US, Switzerland, India, Australia, as well as the UK and a large number of associate editors that are supporting. 

00:14:36 Alison Shaw 

Those those, those main editors, and we're really excited about it because we're going to be launching it in spring next year on our new content platform. So this is going to be Bristol University Press, digital and that's going to bring together both our our book content and our journal content under. 

00:14:56 Alison Shaw 

Under one roof, so people will be able to access it there. We'll be able to search for our content both by by our classic subject descriptors, but also by global social challenge. 

00:15:08 Alison Shaw 

And by the UN's SDG's. 

00:15:11 Jess Miles 

Yeah. 

00:15:12 Alison Shaw 

Which is a. 

00:15:13 Alison Shaw 

Will be a great will be really helpful I think. 

00:15:15 Jess Miles 

I think it's. 

00:15:16 Jess Miles 

Gonna be brilliant for librarians and things to be able to search, particularly in those areas, and have that breadth of content over policy press and Bristol University press. It's going to be amazing. 

00:15:26 Alison Shaw 

Yeah. No, I hope so. I hope so. There's a lot of work going on in terms of in terms of building it right now and now it's looking absolutely fantastic and we are, yeah, really excited about it and think it. 

00:15:41 Alison Shaw 

Will. 

00:15:41 Alison Shaw 

It will be hopefully a great destination site for anybody who's interested in address. 

00:15:46 Alison Shaw 

Using those social challenges around the world. 

00:15:49 Jess Miles 

Yeah, it absolutely will be. Earlier this year, you became a fellow of the Academy of Social Sciences. So this. 

00:15:56 Jess Miles 

Is a huge. 

00:15:57 Jess Miles 

Recognition of your personal achievement. How does this feel? 

00:16:05 Alison Shaw 

Well, uh. 

00:16:08 Alison Shaw 

I can't quite believe it. I guess amazing. I mean, I think what I would say is that it's not about me, it's, you know, it's actually about the things that we've achieved as a publisher. I think it says a lot about the focus that we have that we talked about earlier. You know that that our focus is on scholarship. It is on supporting the community. 

00:16:28 Alison Shaw 

Our whole staff team are incredibly knowledgeable and dedicated to to the work and to our social change focus. 

00:16:37 Alison Shaw 

The reason we're here. 

00:16:39 Alison Shaw 

Is to work on the issues. We're not here. We are a publisher, but the publishing is the method by which we are doing our work. We're here to try and make a difference and that. 

00:16:50 Alison Shaw 

Is. 

00:16:51 Alison Shaw 

So I think that that, that personal accolade is is neither here nor there it's it's it's a, it's a it's actually about the. 

00:17:00 Alison Shaw 

The joint focus of what the press as a whole is trying to achieve and I think whether you're new to publishing or whether you've been working with us for 25 years, I think the motivation is still the same. And I think that engagement from the staff team in. 

00:17:17 Alison Shaw 

Just in those social issues where you know day-to-day as well as being fantastic people to work with, so. 

00:17:25 Jess Miles 

Yeah, it's really important. It's really important to the people who are care about social mission, absolutely. 

00:17:31 Jess Miles 

So I mean, what particular what particular contribution do you hope Bristol University press and policy press has made to the social sciences over the last 25 years? 

00:17:43 Alison Shaw 

Well. 

00:17:43 Alison Shaw 

I think. 

00:17:45 Alison Shaw 

We are, we have been publishing a lot around a lot of the issues that are absolutely fundamental. As I said earlier to to, to life as we we go through a pandemic you know and I. 

00:17:57 Alison Shaw 

Think that our. 

00:17:59 Alison Shaw 

Contribution to work, be that around user involvement of services, or be that around. 

00:18:08 Alison Shaw 

You know why we need effective social care or be that around? 

00:18:12 Alison Shaw 

You know why the next needs to be effective governance in various parts of the world, you know, impact is incredibly important. And sometimes you see a very direct correlation between the work that you've done and some policy change. But often it's about influencing the debate. It's about being part of the conversation. It's. And I think we do that. 

00:18:32 Alison Shaw 

But well, that not only do we publish academic work and scholarly work in standard scholarly formats, so be like, you know, monographs for libraries. Or, you know, journal articles or whatever textbooks. We also do a lot of work, that is. 

00:18:52 Alison Shaw 

OK. And and and and comes to the the conversation in different ways so. 

00:18:57 Alison Shaw 

Transforming society, which is an amazing space that you set up, Jess, and I'm incredibly grateful for it. It's just wonderful. You know, we've got 400 blogs on there. At least you probably tell me. 

00:19:05 Jess Miles 

Thank you. 

00:19:13 Jess Miles 

400 Yeah, it would be attachable now, yeah. 

00:19:17 Alison Shaw 

You know, around 50 podcasts and 20 online seminars, you know, and and these these, you know, this work is. 

00:19:26 Alison Shaw 

Is taking academic scholarship and translating it into a way that can reach out to a wider audience and. 

00:19:31 Jess Miles 

I really hope that, yeah. I hope so, yeah. 

00:19:34 Alison Shaw 

And I think that that is just, you know that that's vital, you know and we also so we do. 

00:19:41 Alison Shaw 

The very traditional academic work, as I said, but we also do quite a lot of what we call scholarly trade or, you know, books that that are aimed at a wider. 

00:19:50 Alison Shaw 

And the amount of review coverage we get on those and it's amazing, you know, for a for a small publisher. I I I still am thrilled when I see one of our authors on TV or, you know in in, in the observer in the UK or in the New York Times or whatever. 

00:20:09 Alison Shaw 

And it's just. 

00:20:10 Alison Shaw 

It's supporting authors in order to achieve that engagement and visibility I think is really vital. 

00:20:18 Jess Miles 

Yeah, just the other week we had the Guardian long read, didn't we, for car roads is where it capitalism, which was amazing. Amazing to see. 

00:20:26 Alison Shaw 

Yeah. And and I think. 

00:20:29 Alison Shaw 

But I think we see the world like that. You know, we're not. We're not a traditional academic publisher that is just publishing for an academic readership that is bought via a library, you know, I mean we. 

00:20:42 Alison Shaw 

We have amazing reach. I mean, you know, in, in a traditional sense, I think we've got 7000 digital accounts in 110 countries. You know, we sold our books, print books in 98 countries last year through you know, our Open Access was. 

00:21:00 Alison Shaw 

And downloaded in 155 countries. I mean your own website 1.6 million. 

00:21:03 Jess Miles 

It's amazing. 

00:21:06 Alison Shaw 

Website Visits last year and 193 countries. I mean, that's just astonishing, you know. 

00:21:12 Jess Miles 

At times, when you when you see those numbers and you think back 25 years, it's just amazing, isn't it? It's so so many countries, so many people now have access to this work. Yeah, that's what's happened because of the growth. 

00:21:28 Jess Miles 

Policy press into Bristol University press. 

00:21:30 Jess Miles 

And it's about challenging the status quo, isn't it? And providing that rigorous academic evidence to balance arguments and things like that, and yeah, hopefully giving people the means, giving people the means to challenge the status quo and to have those arguments is a really important part of what we do, I think. 

00:21:50 Alison Shaw 

Absolutely. And I think really seeking out different viewpoints, really seeking out views that are maybe, you know, not following a the traditional mark, but it always has to. 

00:22:05 Alison Shaw 

So you know, yes, we published quite a lot of critical work, but but I did you know, and work that comes up things you know it it it is quite outspoken in some ways but it's always based on evidence whatever we do it's based on evidence whether that's a politician writing for us or. 

00:22:20 Jess Miles 

Yeah. 

00:22:25 Alison Shaw 

An academic you know, or a policymaker, you know the we have to go back to the fact that what's been drawn upon is is solid. We use peer review as the way of ensuring that. 

00:22:38 Alison Shaw 

That that is the case. 

00:22:39 Alison Shaw 

So really, do our editors work very closely on the the books themselves as they develop, you know, or academic editors on on journal articles? It's, you know, it's actually peer reviewers. So people in the community from around the world that we draw on in order to be able to make sure that. 

00:23:01 Alison Shaw 

That you know. 

00:23:02 Alison Shaw 

It's robust. 

00:23:03 Jess Miles 

Yeah, yeah, which goes back to the quality, the rigor, and then that's what kind of allows for the social mission in lots of ways, isn't. 

00:23:11 Jess Miles 

It. 

00:23:11 Jess Miles 

So this is my final question. What would you like to see Bristol University press achieve in the next 25 years? 

00:23:21 Alison Shaw 

Well, I mean before I before I answer that, I think I should say one other. Thank you actually and that is to Bristol University itself because you know policy press was was a a a fairly. 

00:23:36 Alison Shaw 

You know small, self funded unit that grew, you know gradually overtime. Whereas Bristol University Press had investment from the university in order to be able to launch it and to be able to do that expansion both in I mean you know we doubled in size in a in a matter of just a few years. 

00:23:57 Alison Shaw 

And and both in terms of products but but but also in terms of staff and without their investment and actually their support and belief in what we were trying to achieve, we wouldn't have been. 

00:24:08 Alison Shaw 

Able to do any of it so. 

00:24:10 Alison Shaw 

You know, on that score, you know what we aim to achieve is to be a top tier University Press. You know, sitting within, you know, within a a global. 

00:24:20 Alison Shaw 

And a set of university presses. 

00:24:21 Alison Shaw 

And I think that that is absolutely the the. 

00:24:25 Alison Shaw 

You know the. 

00:24:27 Alison Shaw 

A driving force you know, to have that, that that credibility in order that when we're talking about those difficult social issues that. 

00:24:38 Alison Shaw 

The work that we're doing is respected and, you know, felt to be, you know, of the highest quality. So yeah, back to that, you know, being recognised with the quality of our contribution, be that social commentary or scholarship. 

00:24:51 Alison Shaw 

I think. 

00:24:53 Alison Shaw 

I really want us to have thought about social and environmental justice in a in, in different ways, maybe through both the policy press and print, as well as through PEP. And I think there is so much. There's so much to do. You know, we are facing some really. 

00:25:12 Alison Shaw 

You know well. 

00:25:14 Jess Miles 

Terrifying. 

00:25:15 Alison Shaw 

That's critical challenges that that that could see, I mean, huge migration issues, huge, you know, poverty issues, you, you. 

00:25:23 Alison Shaw 

Know. 

00:25:24 Alison Shaw 

Climate change is going to, you know, potentially change the way that the world operates and hopefully we can help by publishing. 

00:25:35 Alison Shaw 

Work and that comes up with some of. 

00:25:38 Alison Shaw 

The. 

00:25:39 Alison Shaw 

Ideas about how to face that? 

00:25:41 Jess Miles 

Yeah. 

00:25:42 Alison Shaw 

So continuing to try and influence debates push things forward. I think what I'm interested in and just to be clear, I won't be here in 25 years, Jess, so. 

00:25:52 Alison Shaw 

Wow. But which will be which is a bit odd for me to think 25 years forward and think that I won't be here, but. 

00:26:01 Jess Miles 

Yeah. 

00:26:04 Alison Shaw 

I think we've seen a huge digital transformation in the years that I've been publishing. Those digital transformations are things that we we, you know, you know, you can make a guess at. And yes, of course, you know communication, you know, channels will change and you know, but I am sure that the world in 25 years. 

00:26:24 Alison Shaw 

Will look very, very different from the world. 

00:26:27 Alison Shaw 

That we have now. 

00:26:29 Jess Miles 

Yeah. 

00:26:29 Alison Shaw 

I mean, I think the one thing for me is that I hope when I'm no longer here that the team continue to maintain our culture and ethos and what drives us. You know, I think if if if there was a legacy from me, it would be that you know that. 

00:26:47 Alison Shaw 

We continue to put our authors first, that our partners first, you know we're here in order to try and get those messages out. We're here to serve our community. We're a University Press. We're embedded in a university and. 

00:27:03 Alison Shaw 

I want people who work with us to continue to enjoy working with us. You know, it has to be. It's a mutually beneficial partnership and that's what it should be. And and I guess that so that kind of yes, the social and environmental justice message is, yes, the. 

00:27:21 Alison Shaw 

Trying to make the world a little bit better but but I think fundamentally still being the kind of publisher that we are with the kind of ethos that we have. 

00:27:30 Jess Miles 

Yeah. 

00:27:31 Alison Shaw 

Is most important. 

00:27:33 Jess Miles 

Yeah, well, that's a really nice note to end on. Thank you. Thanks for talking to me today. 

00:27:40 Alison Shaw 

It's a pleasure, Jess. As we sit in our separate rooms. 

00:27:45 Jess Miles 

You can find out more about Bristol University press global social challenges or our publishing social mission on our website, which is bristoluniversitypress.co.uk.