The Battle Between AI and Authorship with Nick Hutchison

Welcome to the Artificial Intelligence Podcast, where we explore the intersections of AI, technology, and daily life. Hosted by Jonathan Green, a best-selling author passionate about innovative technologies, this episode features Nick Hutchison, an expert in leveraging books for personal and professional growth.

Today, Nick discusses the transformative power of reading and implementing ideas from books, especially in the realm of personal development. He emphasizes the importance of active engagement with content, beyond just accumulating books or seeking shortcuts through summaries or AI-generated content.

Notable Quotes:

• "Books are tools for action, not just collection items." - [Nick Hutchison]
• "Genuine engagement with books transforms knowledge into practical wisdom." - [Jonathan Green]

Connect with Nick Hutchison:

• Explore personalized book recommendations and insights at bookthinkers.com.
• Engage with Nick directly for tailored book suggestions via Instagram @bookthinkers

Connect with Jonathan Green

• The Bestseller: ChatGPT Profits
• Free Gift: The Master Prompt for ChatGPT
• Free Book on Amazon: Fire Your Boss
• Podcast Website: https://artificialintelligencepod.com/
• Subscribe, Rate, and Review: https://artificialintelligencepod.com/itunes
• Video Episodes: https://www.youtube.com/@ArtificialIntelligencePodcast

Transcript

Jonathan Green 2024: [00:00:00] The battle between AI and authorship. With today's special guest, Nick Hutchison on today's episode. 

Today's episode is brought to you by the bestseller Chat, GPT Profits. This book is the Missing Instruction Manual to get you up and running with chat g bt in a matter of minutes as a special gift. You can get it absolutely free@artificialintelligencepod.com slash gift, or at the link right below this episode.

Make sure to grab your copy before it goes back up to full price.

Are you tired of dealing with your boss? Do you feel underpaid and underappreciated? If you wanna make it online, fire your boss and start living your retirement dreams now. Then you can come to the right place. Welcome to the Artificial Intelligence Podcast. You will learn how to use artificial intelligence to open new revenue streams and make money while you sleep.

Presented live from a tropical island in the South Pacific by bestselling author Jonathan Green. Now here's your host.

Now Nick, I'm excited to have you here 'cause you're not just an author, you're an author's author, and you also help readers to get the most outta their books.

Now one of the things that caught my attention from what you do is you talk about how people read a lot of personal development books and get no results from it. And I have this friend, and there's something I think about a lot. He had a room with like hundreds of books. Every personal development DVD set you could ever see, and all those, those old books used to get like a binder with 12 DVDs or 50 DVDs, and he had a room, there was no bed in a second bedroom.

He just had a pile in the middle of the room and everything was still shrink wrapped. And I turned to him, I said, how much? How much did all this cost? He goes, I don't know, $65,000. And I was like, osmosis doesn't work. If the plastic's still on it like you did, you're definitely not gonna get the results.

He didn't even take the plastic off and it was like. So amazing. And that's what I think about is that you very rarely see someone with just one book about a problem. You very rarely see the woman with one book. Women are from Venus, men are from bars, right? 50 dating books for the guy with 500 business books, right?

Always looking for that next little trick. So why do you think that people buy so many books and yet get so little results? 

Nick Hutchison: I think there are a dozen different directions that I could answer this from. Number one, I think books have become a form of procrastination in a way for a lot of people.

They buy the book, they get that dopamine hit immediately. They feel as though buying the book was an actual form of progress. The book has a promise. It's some type of flashy thing. They buy the book, they get it in the mail, they unbox it, right? 100% open rate, by the way, on Amazon. And that's it.

They're like, okay, my life has changed. And just like. I go against the book purists who leave the books in the shrink wrap. I set people crazy on social media when I rip pages out of physical books, and I do that because I'm like, listen, if something catches my attention if I find the solution to my problem, I wanna revisit it all day long for days to come.

And the easiest way for me to make that happen is just rip the page outta the book and keep it with me. So my books have coffee stains, they have highlighter. I'm ripping pages out, I'm putting them back in, I'm taking notes. And again, these books, they just become a form of procrastination because the authors do such a great job at selling the fact that buying their book is the solution to the issue, that's where they leave it.

Jonathan Green 2024: Yeah, that's really good because there's one thing I know. Anytime I have a customer, like if there's exercises in the book, or me too, if I go, I'll read the book once, then I'll do the exercises. You never do it. Never. Like every single time I've had a customer who goes, oh, let me go through all the lessons and then I'll do the activities.

I go a hundred percent failure rate. I go, there's a guarantee that you'll fail and you'll probably ask for a refund. I said. This is, and that's why I don't let 'em do it. I go, there's a guarantee that you will cause the program to fail, and then you'll blame me, and I'm telling you this in advance. And it still happens that way because it's like.

Ideas without implementation don't work. Like you could read every book about dieting, but if you don't diet, nothing's gonna happen, right? You can't read a book about learning how to swim, but until you get in the water, you don't know how to swim. It's very different. It's a lot scarier. So I love that direction.

I think a lot of people have done the same thing with AI in the past year, which is that they go I don't need to learn, because now the AI will learn for me. And I already know people who have this feeling that. Neuralink, right? The this new computer chip you can put in your brain is the solution.

And I was like none of the monkeys have survived the surgery. So before you jump to that futuristic solution, it does have a hundred percent success rate. If by success you mean they don't live, it's a massive success. So this, I feel like people are starting to do the same deferment, right? They go I don't need to know.

Because chat, GBT will know for me. What do you think about that? I have a lot of 

Nick Hutchison: thoughts about that. When I think about Neuralink or any new technology that's as invasive as Neuralink is going to be, there's going to be a big price disparity. At first, it's gonna be very expensive, and so unless you can afford something like that, you will be left in the dust.

Right? There will be a bunch of, there'll be a bunch of like supercomputer, human cyborgs running around for a little while, but they're going to be the wealthy people anyway, and that's just gonna help them advance their situation, right? Assuming everything works, we'll call it 10 or 15 years from now, but you need to put food on the table between now and then.

And also it's not very FI can't imagine a very fulfilling life where you just outsource your entire life, to a Tesla robot doing your laundry and. Neuralink doing all of the math for you in your head or something like that, and you just sit on the couch and watch Netflix all day through your new Apple glasses or whatever.

So I don't know, that doesn't seem very fulfilling to me. And also I think that in order to be on the front side of that technology and actually take advantage of it, you need to have a little bit of cash. And so it's important to read and implement books on business or personal development anyway, to get ahead.

You also mentioned, reading a book about swimming doesn't actually help you swim. I agree. Nobody's going to do your pushups for you, and I think it's very important to internalize and organize information so that you can truly understand it because. A book summary, like putting Neuralink in your head or something like that's never gonna help you take action, I don't think it's gonna help you take action.

There's a great book called The Art of Learning by Joshua Wakin. Joshua Wakin was like an eight time national chess champion. He was also a mixed martial arts champion in a totally different discipline, right? A physical discipline. And he talked about studying subjects so intensely. That they become part of you, that your subconscious can identify opportunities to act on your behalf in a book summary or a Neuralink implant that's not going to get you there.

So yeah, I'm a big fan of you need to learn this information in order to use it. A system's not going to do that for you. 

Jonathan Green 2024: Now, when I was in high school. Everyone would use the Cliffs notes. I know in England they have a different version, like different areas had different versions of the notes and it would have the shortened version of Moby Dick or you could watch the movie and you'd always get caught because something in the movie's always different, right?

And something in the notes, they would know what's in there. So they would ask questions that they knew weren't in the. Cliff's Notes version of it. And now there's a lot of apps and tools that are like 15 minute reads or Blinkist, or you can listen to just the highlights of an entire book in one PDF.

It's here's the most important things from this book and one PDF. And it's maybe the reason that book works, it's because the book as a whole, right? It's like there's more going on than just the bullet points of the book. And as someone who's written a lot of books, there's. A lot of strategy that goes into sometimes tricking people into learning, right?

We have to wrap education inside a lot of entertainment. If you watch Discovery Channel, you don't learn anything. I don't really know how to fix an old bicycle or survive in the wilderness, or even choose which thing out of a barn will have value once I fix it up. Like I like watching those shows.

It's like pseudo learning, right? It's the, yeah. Appearance of learning. And that's what's so popular right now in the same way that like we know that most people that a computer chip in their brain, they would not use it for learning, right? They'd be watching dirty stuff, watching movies, pretending to work, right?

All the things that people do when they're working from home, right? Everything outside of the webcam screen is fair game. So that's really our natural tendency. So one of the things we've seen in the last year is that. Amazon, which is the main platform people with their books on, has kept having to add new rules specific about ai.

Right now, when you upload a book, you have to say how much of the book was written by AI and how much was written by you? And did you edit a lot or edit a little bit? And it feels like a trick question because if I say the book is written by ai, I'm going into a certain category, right?

But maybe I won't get caught. And there's a lot of people that think I. That the AI they pay $20 a month for is gonna outsmart the AI that Amazon spent a hundred billion dollars developing to check cheaters. And it's like the same people that think they can fool Google search algorithm. I was like, I'm pretty sure they have more of an AI detection budget than you have for an AI tricky budget.

Like they're spending billions of dollars. 'cause if they lose search, they go outta business. They're gonna spend whatever it takes to protect their search results. So I always think about that with, we're in that era now where, yeah, you can sometimes get a tricky book in and you think you've gotten away with it.

That's just because they're waiting to catch everyone and they'll [00:10:00] purge everyone on the same day. There's gonna be a black Tuesday or a black Sunday where thousands of authors get their books deleted all on the same day. It happens every couple of years. I've been through a couple of these purges in my career.

So when you're. Working. We've talked about the readership side, but when you're working with authors and they're like how much of my book can I have the AI write and what shortcuts can I take? What do you tell them to do? Like how do you guide them? 

Nick Hutchison: I'll give you a quick story about publishing my book quickly, and then I'll give you my overall thoughts and recommendations on this.

So when I was getting ready to submit Rise of the Reader to the final developmental editing and proofreading team that I was working with that's when Chachi PT really started to gain traction and become wildly popular. And so I thought, okay, I'm right on the cusp of this thing. Let me run the first couple of like sections of my book.

Through chat, GPT and I experimented with tons of different prompts and it really improved the quality of my writing from an objective perspective. But very quickly I noticed it lost me. It lost my voice. I wasn't there anymore. It was a. It was a cyborg version of Nick Hutchison, and I knew that my community, my readership, wanted to hear from me.

They didn't wanna hear from chat GBT, they wanted to hear from me. And so I reversed all of the edits that I had made, even though, again, objectively the quality of the book went down by reversing the edits that Chachi PT had made. But my voice, which is. A big piece of what people were buying from my community went back up and I felt good about that decision.

And so I tell that story just to say I, that's how I'm guiding authors. I think that I. At this point, anybody can learn what just about anybody has to say through chat. GPT if it was written by chat. GPT. Why do they need your book? They need your book because it's your voice. They need your book because it's your unique perspective.

They're your stories. They're true. They actually happen to you. Not some, engagement filter. Amplification of your story or something like that, so that's how I feel about it. And now I've had some other kind of, I've heard some really good arguments for why leveraging chat, GPT is a positive thing.

I had an author tell me recently that he was dyslexic and would not have been able to provide the value without Chachi pt because he couldn't have written it. And it's a lot less expensive than hiring a ghost writer and working for six months to build a book or something like that. That's a good argument.

I had a couple of other authors state in the beginning of their book, a disclaimer, Hey, part of this book was written and edited by Chachi PT because they thought it was cool, but all of a sudden everybody's doing that. So when you take this argument out, five years, 10 years, and everything is being run through artificial intelligence.

In terms of editing and proofreading and engagement filters and exaggerating stories, making them more divisive, entertaining, intellectually entertaining, whatever. What emerges from that? Who wins? And I, again, I think it's people who have a genuine following. People recognize their voice.

They are what's unique about the book, it's their experience. That's what shines through in an age where everybody has access to the same tools. So that's my perspective is like it's cool. Experiment with it. Use it a little bit right now, play around with it. It might help you get a book done that you couldn't have done otherwise, but you still have to be you and that's what people are buying.

It's really 

Jonathan Green 2024: interesting your experience because I edited my last book all with Chat GPT, but. I'm in there. So chat, GBT four has read my book. It's read my book, serve No Masters. So if you say write the style of Jonathan Green, it will start writing like me. So I said I set it up using the prompt to make it act like me and edit the book, but I kept getting into fights with it.

Because it was doing what I do, which is rewriting. When I just said, just fix the gra, just go through and do a grammar check, right? I was like, you don't make spell. Just do that. Just do that. And it was doing what I do, which is whenever I am doing a final edit, I tend to add chapters and stuff. I was like, stop doing that.

So it was actually doing the exact thing that I do. And the reason I've never wanted a twin, because I know we would always fight with each other over this, right? So I was like, this is exactly why I don't like two of me. And it was, but the final result, I had to really like, I. Wrangle it. But I finally got what I wanted, but I had to like really say, don't do rewrites, just, you're just doing one task, which is checking for mistakes, like grammatical mistakes and all of those things.

So that's 'cause it doesn't make spelling mistakes, like stick to that. But. Oh boy. It took me, I got mad a lot of times, right? To get to the process, but it was much faster. I like what you talk about where it starts to delete your humanity. I think that's an important lesson. So when I was doing my book in 2016, I went through a lot of editors.

I'd have, I had all these editors do a two page sample, like a 500 words or something, and the number of editors who, it didn't sound like me anymore. And in fact, after my book was a bestseller, my book hit number two on all of Amazon. Without selling Harry Potter, everything. There was one like thriller book that was beating e It was just, it's hard for nonfiction to beat fiction.

Yeah. And I got, you get, then you get all these approaches by big publishers and stuff, and this one editor reached out and said, listen, I can fix your book. And I said, fix, I. Hit number two. That's pretty good for me, for an independent self-published guy, right? And she goes here's what I charge.

And to fix my book. It was $17,000. And she sent an example edit, and it honestly looked like she had murdered me. I was like, you've so removed me from the book that it looks like there's no human element anymore. You've somehow made it look like I was not involved. It doesn't sound like me.

She's but the grammar's perfect. And I said how many of the authors you've worked with. And she goes, listen, my, my clients want their books to be perfect. I said, how many of your clients have hit the bestseller list? And then she stopped responding to my messages. I was like, 'cause listen, my goal is not a perfect book.

My book, like that's not the goal, right? The goal is to sell books. As much as I say author is a shorthand, that's not my job. My job is not writing books and selling books. 'cause that's what generates money. I think that's an important lesson. And you're exactly right. That. We're figuring out how much AI element is okay and not okay, but anything that's like cool now always stops being cool later, right?

Like everything that's cool when you're in high school becomes lame by the time you're in college and everyone has access to the same tools. And what happens is that Chad CBT kind of evens the late playing field. It pulls all the bottom up, but also pushes the top down so that everyone's at the middle of the bell curve.

It's like now everyone's a C student. And that's the problem is that it hammers down your greatness, but it also brings up your worseness. And we think we focus so much on the, it fixes my grammatical mistakes that we forget. It also takes away that creative spark. So it can be a powerful tool.

I'm obviously a huge advocate for it, but I think I use it way less than people think. You can use it really strategically to help you to accelerate, and you can either use it to brainstorm your outline or to do your edit. If you have a do everything, that's where you start to get in the danger zone of, is this really anything special?

I start, I sometimes wonder about someone ha writes a video with ai, then another AI makes the video. Then the third AI adds the music. Then my AI watches the video, creates a transcript. Then another AI reads it to me. It's maybe I should have just talked to the person, right? We have six in the middle.

It's could have just done a chat like we're doing right now. I do what you're putting down. Can you tell me a little bit about, you guys have, you've built this kind of community where you recommend different personal development books for people. Like how frequently do you think someone should take on a new kind of task and learn something?

'cause usually it takes time to implement as well as read the book. What page do you recommend for people and how do you choose what types of books people should add to their educational window? 

Nick Hutchison: I'll give a little bit of background context as to how I accidentally fell into this because it was never the master plan.

I was not much of a reader when I was growing up. I was more of the. Athlete stereotype. Not really much of the academic. I was a terrible student and that behavior continued with me through most of my college experience as well. But I was introduced to the world of personal development as an intern at a software company between my junior and senior years of college, I.

And my boss at the time, Kyle recommended podcasts like this where a host is interviewing a series of guests, and the guests are talking about what they've done to become successful. And very quickly I heard the same book titles brought up over and over again by these successful guys and gals.

And so I went to my local Barnes and Noble, I grabbed about 10 books and the rest is history. I've been reading 50 to a hundred books a year ever since. Now at one point. During this process, I realized, and this is something you brought up earlier, Jonathan, I realized that I was optimizing for the wrong thing.

I was checking boxes. I wanted to read at first 26 books a year, then 52 a year, because I heard that the average CEO reads 52 books a year, whatever that means. 104 books a year. Can I hit a hundred books in a year? And so that was. That was changing the filter with which I was choosing books. I was choosing shorter books.

I was choosing easy to read books, and I wasn't applying anything because I was optimizing again for this vanity metric of reading X number of books per year, as if somehow that was the key to success. [00:20:00] And over time I started to realize that it was only by taking action on the books that I was reading and truly implementing them, changing my behavior that.

The output, my life was improving. So now here's what I recommend. When you're choosing a book to read, do a little personal inventory. Is there a problem that you face on a daily basis that could be removed, right? You could remove pain by reading a great book. So many of these books, they condense decades of somebody else's greatest life lessons into days of consumption.

So I heard Jordan Peterson use this example one time, but if you're facing a problem on a daily basis over the next 30 years, you are going to face that problem 11,000 times, right? 365 times 30. Or you could spend the next a hundred days reading a book about how somebody else overcame that same problem.

Because as human beings, we're not really that unique. There's been a hundred billion of us. Millions of us have figured it out, and a lot of them have written books about it. So spend the next a hundred days, spend the $20 and a few hours of your time reading the book, leverage the solution that may have taken somebody else decades to figure out, implement it in your life, and remove the problem.

So I think that's a great place to start, is what problems are you facing on a daily basis that could be removed by reading about how somebody else solved that problem. So that's kinda like bucket number one. I'll throw one more out there, which is, we all know there's a difference between where we are today and where we'd like to be.

Call it five years from now, 25 years from now, doesn't really matter. So as you think about what type of person you'd have to become to fulfill your goals in the future, there are gaps, skill gaps, and books are great at acquiring new skills. So what's holding you back? Is it. Your personal finance skills, your interpersonal communication skills, your relationship skills, your dating, what is it, and go out there and read a great book that solves that problem for you.

Implement the solution, develop the skill. So I think solving problems and building skills are the two primary things to optimize for. 

Jonathan Green 2024: Yeah, it's amazing how many people recommend a book that they've just read the first chapter of, and they're like, this book is amazing, but you don't know how it ends.

My favorite is. When people write a book and I know what the ending is and the ending is horrible, something bad happens or there's a twist, and I'm like I don't think that book, it doesn't end the way you think it does, but I do love what you're talking about where sometimes we think that the step in between is the answer, right?

Oh, if I read just enough business books or if I just do this other thing, then I'll get the result when it's like correlation, not causation. Because a lot of people think that I read a lot of books and I write a lot of business books, but here's the secret. I never read business books.

That's my job, right? I ghostwrite books. I've ghostwritten so many books on like biohacking. I would never read a biohacking book, like just never personal development. Like I read what's called the lowest common denominator, like when people talk about trash novels, they're talking about me specifically.

I'm like, if there's a robot on the cover, I'm reading it. If you have a robot jumping out of a plane. I'm definitely like, I will always read it. It doesn't matter. And it's if there's a, my, one of my girlfriends in my twenties was like, if there's a dragon and a sword on the cover, I know you're reading it.

I know it's your book. And that's the difference is that it doesn't have, it's not always what you think. But if you didn't know the middle step, you think, wow. Jonathan must read so many business books. And I don't even read my own books. Like when a client, when someone hires me for a project, I go, listen, I'll read your book once.

I can read it at the beginning or at the end, but that's what you get one read because. Reading nonfiction is tough for me 'cause it's my job and it's exactly that. It's why my pleasure and my work are not the same thing. So I like what you're talking about because I do think a lot of people now have fallen for the trick of, oh, the summary.

If you, if I just know the bullet points, right? I don't need, I don't need to read atomic habits, I just know, oh, I need to develop habits. There's more to the book than one sentence. There's a reason the book is long. Like a friend of mine was talking about the five lug language.

He's that book could be one paragraph. I was like, yeah, but then no one would talk about it. Yeah. I hear everyone now. I could give an example on that 

Nick Hutchison: one real quick. Yeah. Do it. I, one time I was driving from Boston to somewhere in Florida with my then girlfriend, now wife. And we listened to the five love languages on Audible while we were driving.

And I wanna say, even though maybe let's call it a five hour audio book or something, it took us all 20 hours because we would pause it and we would talk and we would have discussions and we would use examples and we would give reference material and data. And by the end of the car ride, we fully understood each other's love languages.

We fully understood. How to navigate each other's love languages, and that's an example of implementing a book, not a quick Blinkist summary. Like Blinkist has approached my agency book Thinkers so many times to offer sponsorship and things like that, and I'm like, no, I. I think Blinkist or other book summary platforms are a great discovery tool.

If you wanna know what a book is about and choose and you wanna go through a 15 minute summary to see whether or not it might solve your problems, great. But it is not a replacement for reading the entire book in implementing the entire book. I would be shocked. I've never met somebody who's oh yeah, I take action on every Blinkist summary that I go through.

It's not how 

Jonathan Green 2024: it works. Yeah, there was an alternative one about 10 years ago that came out that would turn a business book into a comic book. That's cool. It was, they were quite long, and I was like, this is pretty good. So it would have most of the content in there and pictures. I was like, oh, this actually makes sense to me because it's anchoring the learning with visuals.

But of course there's a massive cost for that. It's like you guys are actually making something. Really? It was really well drawn. Like they did oh. They did, what's that? It's a Chinese generals book that everyone talks about. I always forget it. Art of War. Yeah, the Art of War. And they did a really cool comic book.

Drawn quite long with it. It was really interesting 'cause a lot of boardroom drawings. I was like, oh, this is a pretty cool direction. But they didn't go much past it. I think they did five books. I was like, oh, this one is interesting because I still remember the images, so it helps you to remember it.

So one time I was like, this is pretty cool. The problem with if you just take away and don't add anything to it, yeah. It loses a lot of the value I get where sometimes you just have a limited amount of time oh, I have a test tomorrow, I gotta do the summary. But nowadays, people are even filtering it through an ai, which is like even less.

At least Blinkus has a person, maybe they don't anymore, now they're using an AI too. But at least there's, hopefully there's a person involved that's helping to choose the write highlights. 'cause I can tell you, whenever I have an AI, listen to one of these podcast episodes to choose the best clips. It's not very good.

Like three outta 20 will be useful. So if you can't do that with a 20 minute conversation, then how good it could be these other things and eventually tools will get better and better. But absolutely, I think that the thing we have to remember is that these are tools, not replacements, and I. What we want is the shortest path to the actual goal, which is life changing and the result, not the knowledge in the book, right?

It's not this, you don't wanna get to the end of the book. You can always open a book and read the last page, or you can go to the movies 20 minutes early to see the end of it, right? You could just see the end of the previous screening. That's not very fun, right? It's the building up to the end that gets the excitement.

So I do a lot of what you're talking about. This has been very cool. It's very interesting to see your perspective in a world where AI is just coming at us full born, every single direction. So Nick, where's the best place for people to find you? I know that you want people to check out your book, rise of the Reader on Amazon.

We're gonna put a link to that right in the show notes right below the video. But where else people find about you, where can they maybe join your reading book club and see what else you're doing online. That's pretty cool. 

Nick Hutchison: One of my favorite things to do for people is to be a Book matchmaker.

If you want a custom book recommendation from me that will solve a problem or build a skillset, just DM me direct. Message me on Instagram at book Thinkers and tell me about a problem you're facing or a skill that you wanna develop. And I will again, probably ask some clarifying questions and provide a custom book recommendation.

We should probably, Jonathan, build out a custom GPT. With all of my individual book recommendations and reasons for each book that would automate that process and give me some time back. But listen I am of service to this community. I genuinely believe that the right book at the right time can change somebody's life.

And so that's one of my favorite things to do. And then from there on Instagram, there are links in our bio for everything that we've got 

Jonathan Green 2024: going on. Amazing. Thank you guys so much for being here. Thank you, Evan, for listening to another amazing episode of the Artificial Intelligence Podcast.

Thanks for listening to today's episode starting with ai. It can be Scary. Chat GP Profits is not only a bestseller, but also the Missing Instruction Manual to make Mastering Chat GBTA Breeze bypass the hard stuff and get straight to success with chat g profits. As always, I would love for you to support the show by paying full price on Amazon.

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