Science of Reading: The Podcast

Summer '24 Interlude E3: Training teachers well from the start, with Lisa Lenhart and Rebecca Tolson

• Amplify Education

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In this Science of Reading: The Podcast episode, Susan Lambert speaks with Rebecca Tolson and Lisa Lenhart about their roles at the University of Akron's newly established Center for Structured Literacy. They discuss their personal journeys in literacy education, the large grant received from the Ohio Department of Higher Education, and how the Center aims to prepare pre-service teachers using the Science of Reading and structured literacy. Rebecca and Lisa elaborate on the faculty’s training program, curriculum updates, and the potential community impact. The conversation also touches on the emotional and professional challenges in shifting to evidence-based practices, the history of literacy legislation in Ohio, and the Center's long-term goals—including IDA accreditation and expanding their impact on both pre-service and in-service educators.

Show Notes 

Quotes

“We're also making sure that our students are prepared in structured literacy, not just to one program, so they're able to understand the structure and adopt it to any program any district is using.” —Lisa Lenhart

“The Center for Structured Literacy is about empowering teachers at the onset—bachelor's degree. If districts have to retrain them after they graduate, then we're not doing something right.” —Rebecca Tolson

‘The more I learn, the better I'm at my craft and my teaching for my students.” —Rebecca Tolson

“It takes the right person leading you and it takes hard conversations of what we believe.” —Lisa Lenhart

Timestamps*
02:00 Introduction: Who is Rebecca Tolson?
04:00 Introduction: Who is Lisa Lenhart?
05:00 Overview: University of Akron Center for Structured Literacy
11:00 Overhauling an undergraduate program
15:00 Origin Story: Center for Structured Literacy
20:00 A Passion for the Science of Reading
23:00 Intersecting goals: Center for Structured Literacy and the state of Ohio
27:00 The importance of training teachers well the first time
33:00 Training teachers to encounter schools with a variety of approaches to literacy
36:00 Long-term goals for the center
39:00 How to get more educators prepared to teach with evidence-based practices
41:00 The importance of having hard conversations

*Timestamps are approximate, rounded to nearest minute

Lisa Lenhart:

If you're in higher ed[ucation], you have to really sit down and have some hard conversations with each other.

Susan Lambert:

This is Susan Lambert, and welcome to Science of Reading: The Podcast from Amplify, where the Science of Reading lives. We are now just two weeks away from launching our ninth season. But before we do that, we have one more episode in our summer interlude that I cannot wait to share with you. Throughout the history of this podcast, many of our guests have pointed towards higher education as a key piece of the puzzle in the Science of Reading movement. It was just a couple seasons ago that we featured the founder of an uber popular Facebook group called Science of Reading: What I Should Have Learned in College. And that's part of the reason it so caught my attention earlier this year when I saw that the University of Akron had received a grant to establish a Center for Structured Literacy. And in June, I was thrilled to connect with Dr. Rebecca Tolson, director of this new center, and Dr. Lisa Lenhart, director of the University of Akron's LeBron James Family Foundation School of Education. What resulted was a fascinating conversation about higher education and literacy instruction, as well as about this brand new center at the University of Akron. Enjoy this episode, and please stick around until the very end for a preview of what's coming up on season nine. Well, welcome, Rebecca Tolson , Lisa Lenhart. It's so great to have you on today's episode. Thanks for joining.

Lisa Lenhart:

Thank you for having us.

Rebecca Tolson:

Thank you, Susan.

Susan Lambert:

I would love if you could introduce yourself to our listeners and just give us a brief, "How did you make it into this world of literacy?" And Rebecca, why don't we start with you?

Rebecca Tolson:

Sure. So my journey started as a fifth-grade general education teacher. I said that was such a gift because that is where I realized how "typical" readers read. And I also found out struggling readers. And so that was really when I had struggling fifth-grade readers, that was where I was like, "How can I help them?" I had to learn more, and that, that became my passion. And so I moved into the world of specialized reading disabilities because I just, I got hooked. I was like, the systematic, explicit teaching, teaching a struggling reader, I couldn't learn enough. I was like, "How do we help them ?" And so I got into structured literacy and did certifications there. And that's my story. And then teacher professional development, helping other teachers.

Susan Lambert:

Great. And we'll hear a little bit more about that, but fifth graders are a great grade to teach though, aren't they? It was a fun start for me too. Lisa, how about you? How was your journey?

Lisa Lenhart:

Well, I started out as a first-grade teacher in Ohio. Then moved here to the Cleveland area where I am and taught fifth grade, then second grade, then third grade, and first grade again. So I moved around a lot. And ended up getting a master's degree. And then that's when I started specializing in the field of reading. My mentor Kathy Roskos at John Carroll encouraged me to go on. I went on and got a Ph.D. And started specializing in the field of reading. Unlike Rebecca, I didn't specialize in reading disabilities and struggling readers. I specialized more in the area of early language and literacy, the beginnings of literacy. That's what I became fascinated with, and that's where I've spent most of my career.

Susan Lambert:

That's great. Well, that's great background information because both of you are just really involved in something really exciting. And that's what we're here to talk about, is that recently the University of Akron received a large grant that was used to establish the Center for Structured Literacy. And I would love if you could tell us a little bit about the Center, the purpose of it, and the role that each of you has there at the Center.

Lisa Lenhart:

So we were fortunate to receive a Third Frontier grant from the Ohio Department of Higher Education to establish a Center for Structured Literacy. And the main goal of our center is to prepare pre-service teachers in structured literacy and the Science of Reading. So that first required—with Rebecca as our leader—that required the faculty to become steeped in the Science of Reading and structured literacy. We've been working through a course. We are all—both full-time and part-time faculty—we each have a practicum student we're working through with so that we can become certified. And we've worked on the curriculum for pre-service teachers. Rebecca has worked with one of our faculty, Dr. Evanchan, to update our curriculum and embed this same training that we're going through into our undergraduate curriculum so that our students will leave the University of Akron and they, too, can be certified. And the way it's being set up is that we're working with our urban school right in Akron, and our students will do their field experience with a student, their practicum, right in Akron Public Schools.

Susan Lambert:

Oh, nice.

Lisa Lenhart:

Akron Public Schools has adopted the same materials. We're working together. Our students will be trained and then they'll be ready to be hired right into the school district, right into Akron Public Schools. Although—and Rebecca, you can add in here if you want—we're also making sure that our students are prepared in structured literacy, not just to one program, but that they're able to understand the structure and adopt it to any program any district is using. 'Cause that's just been such a challenge for higher ed over the years, in my opinion. It's been a struggle trying to prepare our students for all the different districts they work in and all the different programs and all the different philosophies. And in Ohio it's very varied. And so districts, you know, have been frustrated because you didn't prepare them to do "this program" or "this program." I won't name any, but...that's been really difficult. So for the first time, y ou know, in Ohio we're all getting o n b oard with the Science of Reading. And districts will be implementing using the Science of Reading. We will be using with our students and teaching them structured literacy. So it's all coming together in t he state. And I think this grant is just situating us so well to prepare our pre-service teachers. We'll also be an I DA (International Dyslexia Association) accredited site. We're working towards that. And then we're working on developing some professional development for other universities, but also for other teachers, in the state or beyond, who are interested in the Science of Reading or structured literacy.

Susan Lambert:

That's great. And Lisa, what's your role there at the Center?

Lisa Lenhart:

Right. Well, I am happily retiring from full-time <laugh> position next week. So presently I'm the director of the School of Education, but after my retirement, I'll work part-time on this grant. So I am the PI (Principal Investigator) on the grant. And I'll be back as emeritus faculty working on the grant, a little more behind the scenes, doing the university kind of things: the grant writing, the grant reporting that I know how to do from previous grants, so that people like Rebecca and our staff can be the people on the ground working on content. I'm trying to protect, especially Rebecca, that I'll do that kind of work as a PI, and Rebecca...she can fully focus on content. I'll still tutor a child on the side, and I still wanna do a little of that, but I won't be as involved in the content piece. We've brought a team on to do that, with Rebecca at the lead .

Susan Lambert:

That's great. I'm glad that you highlighted that because I think people don't understand the work of administering a grant or all the administrative work that needs to be done behind the scenes is so important. So thank you for that. Rebecca, what about you? How do you see the role of the Center for Structured Literacy and your role in that?

Rebecca Tolson:

Yeah . So I was named, I onboarded with the University of Akron as director.

Lisa Lenhart:

Congratulations.

Rebecca Tolson:

Thank you. For the Center of Structured Literacy, which I have two assistant directors. So I have a team, as well as a team member who's going to focus on research and data. So we want to publish this. We want to get out the results, we want to get out the results from training the faculty as well as these pre-service teachers . So I see myself orchestrating, but also using, I have certifications in structured literacy. I have about four or five of them in different programs and methodologies. And what I want to do is I want to situate us to be able to train our teachers—pre-service teachers—so there isn't any teacher that graduates that says, "I don't know how to teach reading." I mean, that's our goal. We want them to go in saying, "Yes, we can teach." And mostly, our focus is on the methods, the methodology of structural literacy. So any program that has those methods, it'll be familiar to them. They're going to be able to hit the ground running saying, "Not only do I know how to teach kids that learn typically, but also kids that struggle. So our focus is a lot on MTSS, Multi-Tiered System of Supports, so we know we can intervene early if need be, but we can also teach those kids throughout the tiers of instruction.

Susan Lambert:

And you were talking a little bit about looking at the syllabus and, you know, sort of changing the experience that those undergrads have in terms of their training. What does that look like? What did it look like before? And what is it going to look like now for teachers that actually go through your program?

Rebecca Tolson:

Lisa, I'm gonna pass it to you to set me up on this question because Lisa talks a lot about being part of the Science of Reading for years and years and years. So, Lisa, tell us that, because that sets me up.

Lisa Lenhart:

Yeah. So , back in about 2000, No Child Left Behind, George Bush, Reading First. We were one of a consortium of three universities with John Carroll University and Cleveland State. And we did all of the professional development for teachers in Reading First schools. So, we have been steeped very deeply in "scientifically-based reading research," is what we've always called it. And that of course, that work went into, we did early reading first, that went into about 2013 by the time we finished all of that. So we were steeped very deeply into scientifically-based reading research. So we kind of have a rich history of that. And I think that's what has situated us well for this. We've had a lot of grants at the university to do this work. And so that, I really think that primed us for this time where we are today, for the work that Rebecca does.

Rebecca Tolson:

Yeah. Thank you, Lisa. So then when I was charged with this, I, like Dr. Lenhart said, I got a faculty team member, and the faculty—they were open, open to suggestions. So I would say the science was there, "The Big Five." It was, "Okay, how can we make sure that we take out any, 'It's not a philosophy.'" This is not, and methods that, you know, science , we all know science of evolves and changes. So what was maybe in there that wasn't updated from the science? Like I know the governor, our law came out. Okay, three queuing. Well, we, you know, leveled readers. Like we want more decodable readers with lots of rich practice in text . So I was looking for that. And it was great. I had a great partner to look at the syllabi, to say, "Okay, are we, what about these suggestions? What are these?" And I made sure, and we used a lot. We also have established a partner with Middle Tennessee State University, Dr. Tim Odegard, to come alongside us. They have modules for higher ed, and we got to be part of their pilot. They're piloting these in higher ed. And we said, "Okay, who's already doing this? And how can we partner and take advantage so it can make our coursework richer, and we're not starting from scratch?" So we were looking at others. There are some great resources out there that we've used. But I mean, also, I feel like there was a great foundation there. There's no question in the science. But structured literacy wasn't really present. I think Lisa would affirm that, that we did not have a structured routine. And so taking the faculty through the practicum themselves, and we have , the sites, we were at the LeBron James I Promise School— the faculty's going in and teaching kids right there in Akron Public Schools. And this faculty, they realize , "Okay, this is what the structure of the language looks like as a systematic versus more of an embedded, as-needed approach." And so that scope and sequence, once they started teaching it, that was the hook for the faculty. They're like, "Okay, this is, I see the difference now." So I think using it , we could do professional development, we can do trainings, we can read a textbook, but actually teaching it—that's where the rubber met the road, I feel, for the transition.

Susan Lambert:

That's great. And for our listeners, I know you referenced Middle Tennessee State, we'll make sure we link our listeners in the show notes to that, because there's some great resources out there that can help them as well. That's a really great foundation. And, and I know in our pre-call, we talked a little bit about how the Center for Structured Literacy didn't just appear. It wasn't just like, "Oh, ta-da . Here we go." There's a little bit of a backstory in terms of bringing this Center to life. I don't know who wants to start the conversation, but I would love it if you could share with our listeners a little bit of the backstory and a little bit of this vision of how this Center came to be.

Lisa Lenhart:

Yeah. I'll be glad to start with that. And Rebecca, you can chime in. So , quite a while ago we had two doctoral students. Rebecca was one, and Pam Kanfer was the other. And Pam's a great friend of Rebecca's and did a lot of work in Ohio. And...unfortunately, Pam wasn't able to finish her program. She passed about a year or so ago. And , her husband, Joe Kanfer, a philanthropist in the state of Ohio and in certainly the city of Akron , asked to have a meeting with me. And he wanted to talk about the possibility of doing some work in the Science of Reading. He had picked up Pam's charge. It was something she wanted to do. And he's doing that in a few other ways, isn't he Rebecca ? Like, the Hebrew language. And he's has some other projects. But in honor of Pam, he met with me and wanted to talk about would we be interested in perhaps forming a center. You know, he asked us actually to come up with a proposal. That's how it started. He asked me to come up with a proposal. So I went to work creating, thinking of things. And I thought, I'm just gonna call Rebecca. 'Cause I know Rebecca knew Pam , Rebecca knew Pam's heart. And Rebecca was an expert in this area. 'Cause as I said, I was more of a general reading education person. So we started having conversations with Rebecca, and we made a plan and brought Rebecca in, had our next meeting with Joe Kanfer, and he would say, "No, no, this is too much. This is too much. I want you to focus." So one thing led to the other, and Joe—a year ago now, it's just been a year, a lot's happened, hasn't it , Rebecca, in a year.

Rebecca Tolson:

Exactly .

Lisa Lenhart:

But , last year, Joe, he liked what we came up with, focusing only on pre-service teachers, having them leave college with this understanding of structured literacy. That was what Pam really believed in. And so he gave us some seed money to get started. We brought Rebecca on as a consultant at the time. And we started this journey of doing this training together. We just finished last week. We've been doing training since October. Like I said, we brought our full-time faculty and our part-time faculty in—anybody who would teach our undergraduates—and then a couple administrators from Akron Public Schools. So that all happened just last September. And then we heard about the Third Frontier grant. So we were well situated to get that. And I think a really important thing to talk about, and it's, I don't know if it's still backstory, but I was just talking to a group last week, something that's been different in Akron is that the president of our university at the time, Gary Miller, and Joe Kanfer got together and they said, "We need the city to understand that this could change things for the children in Akron Public Schools and the area. That this is not just a little university project—this has the potential to change things in Akron." So they gathered a group of people together. They had the mayor in there, a representative from the County Commissioner's Office, different business leaders, board of trustees at the university. And we had an afternoon meeting, and Joe and President Miller talked about the importance of what this could do for the workforce in Akron and for the future of Akron. And that everyone needs to get their arms around here. So there were foundation heads, there were Akron public school administrators. The superintendent was there. It was a large community gathering and a conversation that we hope will continue about the impact this can have in the city of Akron. So that all started with a person coming to us and saying, "Hey, what do you guys think about this? Could you get behind it?" And he, you know, he made us each give our commitment to it. You know, "Are you serious about this? Are you?" And we each had to commit to that. And then the Third Frontier grant happened, and you know, when I think about it, it happened—the seeds of it were so long ago. I remember when Rebecca and Pam and the legislation...was it, what, 2012 maybe?

Rebecca Tolson:

Yes, yes.

Lisa Lenhart:

Yeah. And so just bit by bit, you know, the ground was laid and brought us to the point we are today.

Susan Lambert:

So...it was a real community effort that started with somebody's passion, right? A doctoral student's passion and the willingness to continue this work. Rebecca, since this was a friend and a colleague, right...a doctoral student you went through together , talk to us a little bit about that passion.

Rebecca Tolson:

So actually, Pam Kanfer and I met. She was on the board—school board—for the school that I was first hired in out of college. And so the Kanfers were very involved in the school. And so we've known each other as colleagues and friends for over 30 years. And when her son was diagnosed with dyslexia, she was a kindergarten teacher who decided her passion was to help her son and other children like his learning style, and became certified in structural literacy. So we did a lot of our training and conferences together over those years. So I did know her heart, and she...was always game for learning. She was always game for another class. And when we graduated with—I graduated with my qualified instructor license for Academic Language Therapy Association. She was in the first structure literacy cohort from Southern Methodist University, which was an off-site Ohio cohort. Twelve teachers got their certification through that university. And when...she graduated, she ... goes, "What's next?" Everybody's like, "What's next, Rebecca ?" And I said, "Well, I applied to get my PhD from the University of Akron." And she's like, "I'll do it with you." I'm like, "You will?" She's like, "Yeah, I will ." And...she goes, "I know exactly what my study is going to be." And she was very, very passionate, not only about structured literacy, but also about her faith and the Hebrew language. She really focused on structured literacy in the Hebrew language in her dissertation. Lisa was our advisor. So her heart was always helping kids personally. And she has grandchildren that she taught, and she has, I mean, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of kids did she teach over the years. But she always, always, she loved—the Kanfers love Akron. And she said, "If we could be in the University of Akron, that would just be the ultimate to our career." And here we are, here we are partnering with a center, thanks to the Kanfer family to really launch this, thanks to higher education for supporting this initiative as well. So, yeah.

Susan Lambert:

Hmm . That's amazing. And you know, for our listeners who are maybe new to the Science of Reading and new to structured literacy, structured literacy isn't actually a new thing. Right? It's been developed long ago and it's really having its day right now, structured literacy is really having its day, I would say.

Rebecca Tolson:

I agree. I agree.

Susan Lambert:

And it's interesting because Ohio is also making some really great strides in early literacy legislation. So how do you guys feel like the work of the Center is really intersecting, then, with the other literacy goals that the state of Ohio has?

Rebecca Tolson:

So in 2012—Ohio—I was part of a legislation team. Pam Kanfer was one, and we passed two laws for dyslexia. But they were, they were not mandated. But what happened with those laws, it was professional development. And it was a pilot, a dyslexia pilot. And what happened is the results of that pilot—it was the results of how professional development and coaching can help in screening kids early—can be a preventative model. So it wasn't really only about dyslexia because what we know is structured literacy is good for all kids. Learning the structure of the language even helps kids that are advanced because they can get to those chapter books faster when they understand the ingredients of language at a level to get them advanced. So it can be for all children. But what happened in those laws is in 2012, that was the first legislation that passed. The follow-up laws—House Bill 436—was the next dyslexia law that passed in 2020. And in 2020, that created the committee collaboratively with the partnership with the Department of Education and Workforce. And what happened was we, on a committee, a multidisciplinary committee, created the "Dyslexia Guidebook." And that was, I can't even speak enough because on that committee, we had representatives from each discipline. So we had the Department of Education. We had a superintendent, we had a school psychologist, a speech language pathologist, a higher education representative, an International Dyslexia Association representative. We had a parent...I don't know if I'm missing, i t w as a 13-member committee. Must be missing somebody. I'm going around. Oh, an intervention specialist. We had a teacher and a special education. So everyone had a voice at the table. And that team created that "Dyslexia Guidebook." So that would be something that I'd love for you to link, Susan, in the show notes, because it's...

Susan Lambert:

Absolutely.

Lisa Lenhart:

With a focus on Multi-Tiered System of Supports, so all kids can benefit, not just kids that struggle, but also the problem-solving model for systems approach. How can you improve your systems to make sure all children in your district read. As a f ollow-up, Senate Bill 33 with the governor's budget bill, that was where the Science of Reading became, it's then our legislation moved into more of a Tier 1. Right? All teachers need to learn Science of Reading and the Department put dyslexia modules out with the 2020. And so this was a collaboration between advocacy groups, parents, and dyslexia and struggling reading, and the Department. The Department of Education, they want do right by children as well. And also our legislatures and our governor said, "This is important. This is the direction we need to go as a state." So all of these come together and our Center says, "Not only is the science important, but the 'how to implement that science' is important." And Center for Structured Literacy is about empowering teachers at the onset—bachelor's degree. We're making sure that higher ed is also part of this, you know, and if districts have to retrain them after they graduate, then we're not doing something right.

Susan Lambert:

Yep . And there's been so many teachers that have realized that they invested dollars and time—resources—into their education degree, and they weren't prepared to teach kids how to read. And I know I've spoken with many folks that have said, now we have to go spend more money, invest more money to actually learn how to teach kids how to read. We should be doing that on the onset.

Rebecca Tolson:

And I have to elaborate on one thing. So I'm current chair of the Ohio Dyslexia Committee. And what we know based on the dyslexia support laws, and the Science of Reading mandates from House Bill 33, and the governor is: All districts are required to have a structured literacy certified team member on their MTSS team. That's a law. So when we created this Center for Structured Literacy, what we developed was, we will situate them to be certified with their bachelor's, so districts don't accrue that cost and responsibility after they're hired. And so that's one of our main focus is to meet that law at the onset. If they want to train them in a specific program, that's their choice. But they will have a structured literacy certification or have the opportunity, the credential, the practicum, and everything.

Susan Lambert:

That's awesome. Well, the next question is really about, you know, establishing policy, enacting policy, establishing centers like the Center for Structured Literacy. Really great initial step, but there's got to be more to it than just that. It's not that easy, right? What does it mean to get into some of the weeds of that change and what did that look like? Maybe, Lisa, can we start with you on that one? What did it look like to actually start making this change in terms of your goals?

Lisa Lenhart:

I'll start speaking as a faculty member. I think we were doing a really great job of preparing teachers prior to this, even. We worked very hard to teach our undergraduates how to be educated decision makers. That's one of our themes in our School of Education: "educator as a decision maker." Because everybody out there, as I mentioned before, is doing something different. So higher ed takes a lot of hits on this. And this wasn't an all higher ed's problem. You have districts out there adopting so many different things. You have publishing companies. It was Four Blocks; it was this, you know? We get a student hired in a district or a student teacher and they'd say, "You didn't teach them such and such?" We cannot teach— in higher ed—we cannot teach every situation they're going to go to in the field of reading. And it was very varied. Oh yeah. It was from the most, let's say, from my Science of Reading, structured literacy, some districts have functioned that way, and you have all the way on the other end of the spectrum. And so in higher ed, here we sit in the middle of that trying to prepare. So when I hear, "We had to retrain the teachers." Yes, in the program you're using. But we've been teaching, you know, phonics, we've been teaching syllable types. We've been...teaching these things. So I think in the past, a lot was left up for the student . I've thought about that a lot over the last few years. Students had to put a lot together because we, at the University of Akron, we did not adopt one program. I know other parts in the state, they represent certain programs. All their students learn that. But that's not what we did. And as Rebecca said, some things, we had a little bit of this and a little bit of that added in. So from my opinion in higher ed, this is a time , we say to districts, "We're so glad you're all getting on the same page." And this is thanks to legislation, thanks to Ohio Department of Higher Ed[ucation], many things coming together at this time because it's going to make the job a lot easier for us. Because like I said, we were, we had to be everything to everybody. So I think right now it's really a unique time in higher ed. Everyone is, at least in Ohio, we have to get on the same page. School districts are learning about the Science of Reading. They're adopting different programs. The legislation has changed. Each university had to testify recently in front of the House Higher Ed Senate Committee and talk about where they are on the progress of implementing the Science of Reading. So for the first time in Ohio, we're all getting on the same page. Maybe at different levels, but we're all on the same page. And that has just been such a challenge in higher ed. And like you, I hear people saying, "I wasn't taught this." Well, if we had taught this even in the last 10 years, no one was going into a district where this is what was adopted. What was adopted was what that district purchased. You know? And so it's just been a real challenge. And so I think we're at a different time that we're all gonna be using the same language. We're all getting on the same page, like I said, at varying levels. And I think that's okay. But it's a unique time. And so people will leave, undergraduates will leave universities all with the language of the Science of Reading and knowing about structured literacy and knowing about language development.

Susan Lambert:

This is actually the first time that I've heard that perspective from university faculty about the tension to train teachers to be prepared to go into districts that had varying ranges of approaches to literacy. And, Rebecca, I wonder if you have felt that tension, too, in your w ork in the field and now in your work there at the Center?

Rebecca Tolson:

Absolutely. Absolutely. And what I think is the most helpful is when the Reading League came out with their defining guide of saying what Science of Reading is and what it's not. And it's not a philosophy. It's not a program. And I think that helped clarify, and we do—I agree with Lisa—I think a common language and our governor's saying, "Here is the way, the direction we're going, and everybody's getting on." And Lisa said there's accountability for that. What I wanted to share as far as implementation, if you've not, check out the Read Ohio website. The Read Ohio website is all videos and links about the Science of Reading implementation instruction. And this is put out from the Department. And what they have is resources for superintendents, resources for principals, resources for educators, resources for families. So what that has been, the department saying, "This is the direction we're supporting." The director of the department on board with that, the literacy team. There were funded positions for coaching across the state. That's the implementation. That's the support. "We're here to support you. We're not here to just ding you and say you're doing it or not doing it. We're here to show you, model, teach you." Also, since I'm instrumental in the Ohio Dyslexia Committee, we have work groups that focus on implementation. We have one on assessment that is coming out with a guidance document on the difference between identification and diagnosis. Our school psychologist representative is leading that work group and coming out with a guidance document. We have a...structured literacy certification guidance document, because some of that is brand new to districts. "So how do I navigate who to certify? How much certification? Where do I go to get the certification?" So that as well. We have work groups that worked with a team from Ohio State on families—family engagement, and if you're a family of a struggling reader. So the guidebook was created...the Department...you could see these legislation, these policies were passed. But now we realize the real challenge is support and implementation.

Susan Lambert:

Right. Yep. And the understanding that even with common definitions and even with guidance, change takes time. To establish that and be sustainable in that implementation and practice, change takes time. What about some long-term goals for the Center? Rebecca? How are you thinking about long term? I think somebody said you're hoping to be IDA-certified, right? And what does that mean? And then maybe talk a little bit more about long-term goals.

Rebecca Tolson:

Yeah, absolutely. So, IDA has accreditation for universities and colleges and we are setting ourselves up. That's what the syllabi, and the practicum, and the training for the faculty—sets us up. We're going to enter, we're going to submit our application through the International Dyslexia Association to be part of what they call their "pipeline." And their pipeline is a process of accreditation where you get coaching and support. So it's not, "Okay, we think we're ready. We know we'll pass." It's, " We might need to pivot. And we might need to add." And so we get monthly coaching and we get guidance to get that accreditation. And with that accreditation, it means that our coursework meets a set of standards. And their standards are the IDA Knowledge and Practice Standards for Teachers of Reading. And I want to publicly say: That is not just teachers of reading for dyslexia. That is all teachers of reading. One standard talks about dyslexia, but the rest of them are general structured literacy and overview of the science. So, once we get our accreditation, then we can prepare our teachers for the certification through the Center for Effective Reading Instruction. So if they wanna have that structured literacy certification, there's a classroom teacher level. And then that also includes where teachers have to pass to be certified, they have to pass what they call the KPEERI (Knowledge and Practice Examination for Effective Reading Instruction) exam. And that exam was written based on the standards. So it's an application-based exam. And that means that not only do teachers have head knowledge, but they know situations in the classroom that relate to what they need to know to be a reading teacher. So that's our first goal. And we plan to have that i n, if everything goes well, 2025. We have applied for a second grant. We're hoping to get funding to move it into...our m aster's program. If we get this, you know, what we want is not only that teachers could be structured literacy interventionists, but we a lso would love that second level, which is the highest level, which is structured literacy dyslexia specialists. And we'll tie that to a master's degree.

Susan Lambert:

Amazing. And we'll link our listeners in the show notes too, to those Knowledge and Practice Standards from IDA, because I think they're really instructive in terms of understanding what it takes. So thank you for that reminder. So, when you think about maybe some lessons from your experience that can kind of be shared broadly, how do you all think we can get more educators prepared to teach using these evidence-based practices? You've talked a little bit about how you're doing it there at University of Akron through the Center for Structured Literacy. What are your big hopes and dreams for more preparation across the country?

Rebecca Tolson:

So one of the ways that we set the grant up for the Center for Structured Literacy is not only that you do coursework, but also that we would offer support with consultation. Workshops, professional development, partnerships with districts. So...I've already been contacted by teachers to say, "I already have my degree, but I wanna be part of the Center, " so we wanna do like a summer reading institute. We want to open this up for continued learning. 'Cause I know for myself, my first structured literacy class was the first time I really had exposure to the language of the Science of Reading, "morphology," "orthography." Those were new terms for me and I'd been a teacher for five years. I had to learn the language in a different way. So we have to meet those teachers where they are. So we want maybe beginner offerings and then more advanced offerings for teachers that have been situated. 'Cause it's been a journey of learning for myself as well . So I know what that's like to say. "The more I learn, the better I [am] at my craft and my teaching for my students." And so that's my focus for the Center, is to make sure we can reach as many universities that want consultation. To say, "We want to improve our courses as well. We're here for you."

Susan Lambert:

Shout out to the University of Akron. So anybody that knows somebody that wants to go into education, you know, send them to the University Akron. Send 'em your way so that , you know, as your Center gets established. That's amazing. Well, what about any final thoughts that you have for our listeners in terms of this topic?

Lisa Lenhart:

I was thinking as you were asking the last question, as Rebecca was talking. When I think about, I'd respond from a higher ed position, as you've heard. That's where I've been for about 30 years now. And it's a big change in higher ed. I know at the University of Akron, dyslexia came out of special education. I don't even really know what they did. That, like I said, we were more general. We worked with struggling readers, but dyslexia was something that just since the work of Rebecca and Pam and others since 2012, we've been, you know, putting it into our curriculum. We have some modules our students work through so they have exposure to it. What is it? What defines it? What's it look like? We have a nice little module we've been using with our students. But it's a real shift for us. And so I guess a final thought would be, if you're in higher ed, you have to really sit down and have some hard conversations with each other. It has not been easy. It hasn't been easy for me. It's been a real change for me. I know I have, I have even felt threatened , the work I've been doing my whole career. Suddenly out there, what I hear, it's like—and I know it's just my own defense—but like everything I did was wrong. It , you know, because this isn't what I was doing. You know, I have a textbook in the field that's widely used with a lot of colleagues and respected. And so personally for me, it felt like suddenly I know nothing, which is far from the truth. There's, you know, like I said before, we were teaching these things. We were teaching morphology, we were teaching, you know, spelling. So I think you have to have a hard conversation as faculty. I'll just speak from that. What you believe. The best part of this for us has been as I said, Rebecca was a student of ours, and she's leading the charge with us now. Rebecca has never made us feel that way. She values each person where they are. She respects what we've been doing and moving forward , it takes the right person leading you. And it takes hard conversations of what we believe. I mean, we've had some tears <laughing> in our trainings, you know, because it has felt...it just hasn't felt good for those of us who have been doing this for a long time. To hear people say that, you know, "They didn't teach me this." And as I said before, there's a reason. We just haven't been able to meet all needs. So it's, I guess everything I'm saying is, it's very complex to me it is, at the higher ed level. There's a lot of emotion with it. There's a lot of, there's just a lot around it. And I think that, like I said, the best thing has been the way Rebecca has been our leader and has just accepted everything. She does not take on the position of, "You guys don't know anything, let me tell you how it is." She knows what we know and values that and has really helped us move forward. So I guess that's, those are my final thoughts. Get someone good to help you through this. And she's available through the Center, as are the rest of us now because we've come a long way in having these conversations.

Susan Lambert:

I really appreciate hearing this perspective too, to remind us that this whole situation is, like you said, very nuanced, a little more complex. And we all need to sort of sit down together and talk through, and understand, and hear each other's points of views. And respect each other for the knowledge and the experience that we all bring together.

Lisa Lenhart:

We all have the same goal. We all have the same goal . We all want children to be good readers. We do. And it has never not been anyone's goal. So I think that we have to respect that about each other.

Susan Lambert:

Yeah. That's so true. Rebecca, would love for you to respond to that. How does that feel to you to hear as a former student now being a leader in this work and being able to bring together a very complicated situation?

Rebecca Tolson:

Mmhmm. I'm really humbled by that, Lisa. Thank you for those kind words. I try to lead my work with my heart, and I know what it's like to be in the classroom and feel like, "I'm not sure this is the right thing for kids. Like, I'm not sure." And I think sitting in the seat of a general education teacher first has given me empathy for those general education teachers. And then transitioning to special education gave me the feel of, "Okay, this is a big responsibility to take a struggling reader and remediate." So I think sitting in both of those roles has given me the lens. And then you mentioned, Susan, the change management piece. And I feel I had to change in some of my practices, and I know what that felt like. And I definitely didn't want somebody to say, "Well, everything that you did was wrong." So I want to treat them like, "I value you. I value you." And...I would say we had...a faculty member, or maybe two, that felt like they wanted to get out of the field. And I'm like, "Absolutely a terrible idea. Your experience is what we need! We need what you know, but we're all gonna learn together." And so, Lisa's recommendation—I'm just going to second—is have some hard conversations. And find the right people to lead your group. 'Cause you know you're setting best. Who would know your team well enough to say, "We can do this together. And that's [it]; we hunker down." And I just have to compliment Lisa because it was her idea to bring in two administrators from the local public school to learn alongside of us. And as they learned, then...the partnership became stronger between the university and the public school. And what a beautiful community we can create when we learn together.

Lisa Lenhart:

Rebecca and I love each other if you can't tell.

Susan Lambert:

Well, congratulations on the work that is happening there at the Center. We will watch and see how it's going. We are going to encourage folks to reach out to you. And like I said, really excited to do a follow up with you and to see how all things are going. So thank you so much for joining us and sharing the story. We appreciate it.

Lisa Lenhart:

Yeah. Thank you for having us.

Rebecca Tolson:

Thank you, Susan.

Susan Lambert:

Thanks so much for listening to my conversation with Dr. Lisa Lenhart and Dr. Rebecca Tolson from the University of Akron. Dr. Tolson is the director of the Center for Structured Literacy at the University of Akron and a national literacy dyslexia consultant and speaker. Dr. Lenhart is a distinguished professor and the principal investigator on the grant for the Center for Structured Literacy. At the time of our conversation, she was the director of the LeBron James Family Foundation School of Education. Congratulations again, Dr. Lenhart, on your retirement. In the show notes, you'll find links to some incredible resources we discussed, including "Ohio's Dyslexia Guidebook," the Read Ohio website, and the International Dyslexia Foundation's Knowledge and Practice Standards for Teachers of Reading. Remember to join the conversation about this episode in our Facebook discussion group , Science of Reading: The Community. Now, I can't wait to tell you about what's coming up on our brand new season. On season nine, we're going to be doing a reading reboot, building on the fundamentals of evidence-based literacy instruction. In the last couple years, there has been an avalanche of discussion and information about the Science of Reading. We think now is the perfect time to take a step back and revisit the fundamentals of evidence-based literacy instruction, all with the goal of moving forward in new and better ways. Over the course of this season, we'll reexamine the most important principles from decades of reading research, while also exploring the latest science. And throughout the season, we'll pay special attention to the reciprocal relationships between reading and writing. We're kicking off this new season with a powerful episode demonstrating why a reading reboot is so valuable. We'll be sharing the story of an incredible school in Atlanta that serves children who have experienced or who are experiencing homelessness. In this episode, we'll talk to the head of school, Ray James, about why literacy has become so fundamental to the school's overall efforts.

Ray James:

Something that I know is that if you don't get reading right in an elementary school, every piece of the school suffers. I'll say it one more time. If you don't get reading right, in an elementary school, every piece of the school suffers. Every other content, every behavior data point, every familial data point. If reading is not done right in a elementary school, the effects are seen everywhere. And so I prioritize reading.

Susan Lambert:

That's next time. Science of Reading: The podcast is brought to you by Amplify. For more information on how amplify leverages the Science of Reading, go to amplify.com/ckla. Thank you so much for listening.