236 - Studio Ownership Roundtable w/Rachel Brooks and Steph Alston

Two studio owners, Steph Alston and Rachel Brooks, join me today, for the first in a series of conversations where we explore the realities, joys, challenges, and learning experiences of studio ownership.

Both Rachel and Steph own, manage, and teach at studios that cater to less commonly targeted populations, so we talk about the why and how of that. And we talk about how they found their ways to studio ownership. 

We also get into money things like paying themselves and teachers, opting for contractors vs. employees, the need for transparency in the industry, and their personal journeys toward financial stability in their businesses. 

Connect on Instagram:
Rachel, Seeking Space Yoga, and Yin Yoga Space
Steph and Santosha Yoga Collective

Previous episodes with these guests:
Steph: episodes 205, 227
Rachel: episode 188

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Connect with Bonnie: Instagram, Email (hello@bonnieweeks.com), Website
Listen to Bonnie's other podcast Sexy Sunday HERE

The music for this episode is Threads by The Light Meeting.
Produced by: Grey Tanner

Transcript

Bonnie (00:05.733)
Welcome back to the podcast loves. Today I have another yoga studio owner conversation with you and if you've been listening to the podcast you know that two months ago as of right now as I'm recording then there was a conversation between me and my friend Steph Alston and today we're going to bring back more conversation for studio owners.

So if you're a teacher, this might be interesting to you because you're gonna hear behind the scenes with two different studio owners because there's three of us here in the podcast today. And that might give you some, I don't know, maybe some perspective that you haven't considered before or the thoughtfulness that goes into studio ownership. And of course, this is two studio owners out of a sea of a billion, like however many studio owners there are in the world. So of course, this is not.

Steph Alston (she/her) (00:36.796)
I'm going to turn it over to the next speaker. We'll start with the speaker. Thank you. I'm going to turn it over to the speaker.

Bonnie (00:55.959)
capture all different sorts of people or points of view, but maybe there's some things that can be take away for you as a teacher. And if you are somebody, a teacher perhaps, who is looking at stepping into studio ownership, or if you're a studio owner and you're like, oh my gosh, nobody's talking about things and I really want more conversation, then you might like this, cause you're like, they're speaking my language.

So here we are practicing paying attention in ownership and around money and with each other as human beings. Welcome to the podcast, Steph Alston and Rachel Brooks.

Rachel Brooks (01:31.158)
Thank you. Excited to be here.

Steph Alston (she/her) (01:33.196)
Thank you.

Bonnie (01:35.403)
So as we step into this, I want to give a moment to have both Rachel and Steph introduce themselves. So I'm gonna, Rachel, I'll have you go first. So Steph, if you have not listened to the other episode with Steph, zoom back to February, find that conversation. I'm also going to take a moment here and have both of them introduce themselves, where they are located, what their studio names are, and who they are trying to cater their studios to. So Rachel.

Steph Alston (she/her) (02:01.71)
Thank you.

Bonnie (02:04.715)
go for it.

Rachel Brooks (02:06.53)
Thank you, Bonnie. My name is Rachel Brooks. Pronouns are she, her, and I own Seeking Space Yoga, which is in Southwest Portland off of Barbara Boulevard, kind of in the Multnomah Village area. And then I also own Yin Yoga Space, which is in Central East Side, so closer to downtown. And yeah, I've been in business with Seeking Space since 2017. I started with a business partner and then took over as sole proprietor in...

the middle of the pandemic in July of 2020. Not the middle, maybe that was just like the beginning area. And then I opened up Yen Yoga Space October of 22. So it's been about a year and a half now. It's been really exciting and just very grateful to be here. And as far as who I am looking to serve with yoga and at my spaces, I would say like ideally the individuals who think yoga is not for them.

who might have seen it before, think that it doesn't seem like something that they would be able to do or enjoy doing. And so I really wanna cater to those who feel like there's not a space for them within the yoga scene.

Bonnie (03:17.38)
I love that. Thank you for sharing, Steph.

Steph Alston (she/her) (03:20.618)
Hmm. So I'm Stephanie Alston. I own Santoshah Yoga Collective, which is a studio based in Northern California. So we're Northeast of Sacramento. And our studio, although it's been around for many years, I have just been the owner since November of 2022. So a year and a half, I've taken over ownership of this studio, which previously was under a different name and had existed in our community for about 10 years. But one thing that's unique about our studio and Rachel, I love how you said,

creating a studio space for people that think yoga is not for them because that's very much aligned with our vision that this studio which is People who think that they can't do yoga Find a home here. So one thing that's unique about our studio is we provide yoga therapy classes Trauma-informed yoga classes and a whole variety from the yoga tradition So instead of just one style of yoga, we have Yin, Kundalini, Iyengar We really wanted to bring different

varieties of yoga under one roof so that people could find the right path for them that fits their body and fits the stage of life that they're in right now. So we have a wide demographic of older folks at our studio, people in their 80s and 90s that come to a chair yoga class a few days a week, and we have people that are prenatal all the way at the very beginning of life stages. So it's been just a joy to serve this really wide set of students.

Bonnie (04:49.04)
Steph, you also have stuff for kids as well, right?

Steph Alston (she/her) (04:51.766)
We do, there are kid offerings. Currently monthly is what we're offering for kids classes and some parent and family, like parent and child family combined classes too. So yeah, we really wanted to serve all the bodies, all the little bodies, the older bodies and in between.

Bonnie (05:05.675)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, thank you. There's so many, I love both your two offerings, Rachel, and Steph, kind of the big offering. Like, yeah, there's so many different check boxes that people can come to for classes in your studio. And I like our conversation between us in specific because neither of you are just a power yoga studio, which there is a lot of right now, or a lot of people are opening up a studio and it's only power and it's only like 100 degrees.

And for people in smaller communities too, who want to branch out and open up studios where there's already a power studio, there's so much room to maybe create a studio where you have some power classes, but then you also diversify your offerings because there's so many people in those areas that are thinking that yoga is only maybe that one thing, or that type of yoga is not for them. And so there's a lot of room to grow. So I like that both of you are kind of.

able to observe that and able to see who you can serve that is different. That it's like, oh, the power yoga is not for me. The yoga is not for me. Okay, maybe there is a space for me. So both of you are doing that in excellent ways. And I love that you are seeing what doesn't exist and creating it. That's like my jam. So...

Steph Alston (she/her) (06:24.49)
Well, thank you. And Rachel, I would love to hear too what your journey was getting to this because I sort of feel like I fell into it. Like, it was never a plan from the very beginning that I would start a studio or own a studio, but it felt like such a needful flow in my life that led me here. Because I started off as a power teacher. I loved practicing power yoga and I still do and our studio does have power classes that thrive.

And when I was in my 200 hour training, I thought, well, wait, where's the yoga for all of the other people? Like my dad who had PTSD and my mom who I knew was not gonna come to a flow class, but I knew she needed chair support. And I'd heard these things existed, but searching for them was really hard to find. And same with prenatal yoga. And so it just sort of became a natural thing of, in our area, power yoga, hot yoga is very prevalent.

and I worked at a number of those studios. And so when I took over ownership, I was like, okay, we're gonna make it be for everyone. If we say yoga is for everybody, where can they find it? Let's lean in a little bit and make sure there are regular YIN classes on the schedule and there are regular restorative yoga classes on the schedule. And I think it helped that we'd been around for a while. So we already had a pretty good community and the teachers that have found us as well that-

want to teach more than just power yoga. It's been really fun to find teachers that are passionate about other styles too.

Rachel Brooks (07:49.974)
Yeah, I mean, I definitely fell into it as well. This was not the original plan, was not planned out, you know, thoughtfully, or it was kind of, it kind of was an opportunity that was seized that came, you know, that was like presented essentially. So just in a little bit of backstory for the first studio that I started, like I was a, I had just done my 200 hours. So I started out as in studio ownership.

like probably six months after taking getting my $200 certification and that was only maybe eight months after even starting a regular practice of yoga. So craziness like completely crazy and would not take it back for the world. But like that was my journey. So definitely.

really fast and just kind of just thrown into it, which I thankfully kind of learned under pressure and that's part of what was the atmosphere and the experience that I had within the service industry for as long as I was too, is like, that's how we work. We just go on the fly and we just make it happen as we go. And so, yeah, I definitely kind of fell into it, was not the plan, love it, excited that it happened the way it did, so grateful to be here. And I think too, it was a natural progression

You know, it's the same. I remember when I opened up

in yoga space. I mean, some of the pandemic is what brought about like the awareness around like, I think we just inherently knew that we needed a style of practice that was going to really soothe our nervous system, being so activated and so on alert in the times that we were in the pandemic, too, that it was just like I just saw a huge shift. And it was a response to that

Rachel Brooks (09:36.252)
as a yoga, a power yoga teacher. But I really needed Yin probably more than anything. But I am a firm believer that the different styles of yoga meet us where we're at, at the time that we're at. And it's really important that I was met with power yoga because...

if I would have been, you know, met with Yin, I might not have stuck around, you know, just because that's not where I was at in my life and in my mindset. So, yeah, I think like creating the spaces and responding to what you're seeing your students need and what they're gravitating towards. And, you know, also just like the same in the same sense Bonnie that you were mentioning, like, there's a ton of power yoga studios. Well, why isn't there a ton of Yin studios? Why isn't there a ton of restorative studios? Like,

Why is that any different than what we have already to offer?

Bonnie (10:28.499)
Yeah. Ooh, I love that. I love the pushback of, well, what about that? Well, wait a second. I think it's because people think the word power sells, right? And it is. It's like a marketing thing. That's part of why people started calling power vinyasa power vinyasa, was because they're like, ooh, the word power, that's exciting. That's going to sell things. The word slow next to anything doesn't sell as good as the word power does. So we're going to use power. Yeah. So it's like, well.

Okay, so names are important. Like what you name something is important, but also there's a lot of wiggle room and I think that can provoke more questions. So absolutely.

Steph Alston (she/her) (11:08.93)
And Bonnie, I'm so glad you mentioned that too because I think it highlights so well how yoga is unique from the fitness industry while so many people do find yoga because of the physical aspects. And like, I mean, power yoga can be so fun. Like I love that is an offering and our industry does look different. And I think like we tend to pull people initially from athleticism and from those places where like, oh, power yoga. Okay. It's like goes along with my gym workout.

And like that's so amazing to be able to have that blend. And I think like as we're running our studios and talking about that today as well, like the way that we cultivate a wellness community and the team of wellness professionals is gonna look so unique from maybe it just being a gym or fitting into maybe other molds that are out there.

Bonnie (12:00.251)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, totally. OK, so a question for both of you. As we think about the way that you're serving others, when you stepped into studio ownership, how much of you creating this space was you teaching at first? And did you have a thought in mind for how much you would teach or how much you wanted to teach? Rachel.

Rachel Brooks (12:26.174)
Thanks for calling me out. Okay, so I want to make sure I'm understanding your question. So I heard the part about like how much did you want to teach and how much did you have to teach because that was like immediately triggering like, oh my God, I was teaching so many classes in the beginning because I had to. I didn't want to. But what was the first part of the question? Can you repeat it? Like, yeah.

Bonnie (12:27.747)
Yeah.

Bonnie (12:37.586)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Bonnie (12:51.687)
Yeah, this is good. Just go right here.

Rachel Brooks (12:54.994)
Um, so yeah, I, uh, I think in the beginning as an owner, like it was me and my business partner and, uh, we were brand new teachers and we started the business very, very skeleton and like, all we did was like paint the space to make it, you know, look pretty for us and by our, you know, register our, you know, our business with the state of Oregon and then.

There we go, we were open the doors. And so it was just us teaching in the beginning. I think we had one other Lori who was actually our teacher in our certification program or whatever. She was, we were able to bring her on, which she was doing a service for us, guarantee, as a brand new studio and new teachers. But so it was just like insane. At least I feel like anywhere between, you know, 15 to 20 classes a week, which some...

Some teachers regularly do that, which it's, but when you're also forging the new systems for a business and working a full-time job because you have no, there's no other, there's no income from your business. Like it's a whole different ball game. And so I definitely started in power and that's what we had mostly on the schedule. I think we had one heated restorative on the schedule at that time, because we did take over.

essentially, we didn't buy a business from the former business owner. We started our business there, but the community that had been going there and what the precedent that had been set of that space was it was a power yoga studio. And that's what we were taught in too. So there was a lot of power on the schedule at first. Maybe I think we had one heated restorative. There was no yen, no other real styles, but hot heated power.

we did introduce some power that wasn't heated as a variant. And I just remember like, I was not feeling like a strong power yoga teacher because it really like, I was more maybe Vinyasa, gentle Vinyasa was kind of more up my alley and where I was at personally in my own practice. And so I was like feeling like I had this expectation I had to kind of build up to for being able to teach really strong power yoga teachers in comparison to.

Rachel Brooks (15:10.818)
my former business partner and Lori who had been there with us before. And so I was on like, alo moves, looking at all the movie like the I say movie star, but like, all the famous superstar yoga teachers, Dylan Werner, and like, I was like, all in there trying to figure out like, how do I become more powerful as a teacher? Which was, you know, it was good information. And it really did enhance some power teaching skill that I had. But it was a lot to try to Yeah, it was just a lot of expectation and a lot of just

Bonnie (15:26.423)
Yeah, yeah.

Rachel Brooks (15:39.494)
overwhelmed there was a period of time and I've spoken with you before this about this Bonnie in our podcast that we did but like there was a dark hole of just like a Grind for the beginning part of it. So that's my long answer for that

Bonnie (15:51.111)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie (15:54.871)
Yeah. Well, thank you also for giving the call back to, um, that we have had a podcast. We didn't have a podcast about yoga studio ownership, but I don't remember what the episode, I'll put it in the show notes for the podcast we've had before and stuff. We've had other podcasts. So I'll put those links on the show notes. So if anybody wants to go back and listen to those from past conversations, they'll be there. Um, Rachel, follow up question for you is when, so you're

Very skeletal team. You're working a full-time job outside of being a studio owner, outside of teaching 15 to 20 classes a week. So you can actually make money to buy groceries and gas to get to the studio. So it's great. No stress at all. But to ditch you, especially as a new teacher, and I mean, just like props, hats off to like stepping into holding so many different things. Where you're like, OK, ready, set, go. This is what I'm going to do with my life, right? Like this, like when you have the call, you're like, this is what I'm doing. But.

And hearing how that power piece and it was really challenging and how you really wanted to give gentle yoga, right? But you also want the studios to succeed. So can you speak to like the feeling of having to deliver something to those students and wanting to like help them and

like that process for yourself and trying to like show up and wanting to please people, but also trying to like not burn out, also not knowing what to do. Like, can you speak to that experience a little bit more?

Rachel Brooks (17:24.043)
Um, yeah, I mean it was, I think...

Anything, the main thing was making sure that, you know, I mean, at the beginning stage, it's like, this has to get off the ground. We have to assist, you know, we have to figure out how to.

get this model like sustainable and running. And so that really was priority of like, what is the demand? What can I provide? And what can I do to provide that? It feels like imposter syndrome times a hundred. It feels like, and also just nervous system, my nervous system like was not regulated. And so in that sense, as a disservice to the students. And even when I like, and I maybe didn't mention this before, but when I graduated

Rachel Brooks (18:12.601)
And I don't feel like I was prepared and not that it's all on the facilitator of the training, but just like I don't feel like I should have been teaching right away, quite honestly. And so what I did to feel.

better about that was to go and find different trainings to take. So I went and got my 25 hour trauma informed, um, class teaching. And I went and got a 25 hour restorative training and I went and did a hundred hour in training. And so I did all these things and I got honestly, quite honestly, got more information from my a hundred hour in training than I did from my 200 hour. Um, and so it was me really taking on like the responsibility of like, oh shit, like, I don't know what I'm, I don't know what I'm doing.

and I'm leading people and it's important that I really need to be able to like have the knowledge that's needed to be able to facilitate this. It's a responsibility. And so when I was teaching all of those classes and they were predominantly power and that was again before like I had done my yin training or before there was anything on the schedule really besides power but it was just you know providing what I felt like needed to be provided, feeling completely dysregulated.

But knowing that because I am an owner and at one point there was, you know, the light at the end of the tunnel is this is not forever. This is something like and I will be able to start to be in this base where I resonate more with what I'm teaching and the style and what fuels me. So it was just a lot of knowing and awareness that like, this is a grind right now.

and you've done this before, you've done this, you've grinded before, you know how to do this, it's not forever, and I just had to kind of keep reminding myself of that, so.

Bonnie (20:01.031)
Mm-hmm. Thank you. Steph, before I jump to you, Rachel, one more follow-up with this, because if somebody is a studio owner right now and is in that place that you were, and where you're like nervous system, totally dysregulated, how do I show up? Is there any piece of advice you would give to them if they're currently in that soup space?

Rachel Brooks (20:24.971)
I mean, I've actually given this advice to others before since I started my journey, but just starting small, I think some of the...

oversight, you know, was just feeling like we needed to have this really robust schedule with all these things. And it would have been fine to have probably half the amount of classes that we had at that time. And, and the, you know, the advice too would be like, obviously, you need to be aware of what the demand is for, and for the demographic that you're looking to market to and you want this business to succeed. But the people who the

people will come and so offering some different styles, like your people will find you and you don't have to worry so much about fitting into this cookie cutter shape of what the other studios in town are doing, what you think. Give some of it, you know, you gotta play the game a little bit, but like it doesn't need to be everything and you will find those people who will.

be there and stick with you and it will be like sustainable if you kind of if you give some variety and feel okay to do so giving you permission to be able to do that.

Bonnie (21:37.339)
Mm-hmm. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Steph, how about you stepping into studio ownership and the amount of classes you thought you teach, what you taught, like how did that feel as you kind of stepped into that space?

Steph Alston (she/her) (21:51.13)
Well, first Rachel, I just loved hearing about your experience because as I said at the beginning, our starting office studio owners was so different. So like Rachel started off, you know, brand new studio more or less. Like I took over a studio that was already in existence. But Rachel, your experience tracks a lot with what I heard from the studio owner before me and other people who have started off like from scratch. It's like maybe.

Rachel Brooks (21:57.534)
Relief will unlock your open arms.

Steph Alston (she/her) (22:20.342)
them and a business partner and they're teaching all the classes. And to your point, like I think I would have also started off really small. Like I was thinking about what would I do different if I had been brand new versus coming into a community that the studio had already been there 10 years. And I think people see us now and the amount of things we have on our schedule and the amount of offerings we have and that's just because we've been here for 12 years. Like

I know this studio did not start off with that. I think I probably would have offered like three kinds of classes. Like we have Flow, we have Yen, and we have Restore. Like that's it. So when I came in, I think on average in studios that I've managed and also been the owner of 8 to 12 classes a week was when I was like working my most like spinny wheel mode, which it sounds Rachel like you can relate to that being an hamster on a wheel. Like I just got to turn out stuff.

for right now to like get us going. But I do feel like personally, eight to 12 classes a week with all of the responsibilities of being an owner is not sustainable for me. I was much better at keeping up with a lot of physical demand in my classes and class preparation when I didn't also have to worry about people's paychecks and paying the rent and like just all of the things that come up as an owner.

So that's really informed the way that I like lead my team and my manager as well as like how much physical class teaching do I expect from them as well as like how many hours are we just in mental mode? Like, cause there are days where I'm just at my computer all of the dang time. So right now I'm teaching three classes a week plus special offerings to like workshops, retreats, getting ready for a 200 hour training to start next year.

And that's given me time to do that. And I feel like three to five classes is really my sweet spot as a weekly thing. Yeah, so my expectations and where I have been to where I am now, it's an interesting contrast because I think I always expected that I would teach a lot more than I do.

Bonnie (24:29.719)
Hmm. Yeah, and it makes sense that has evolved over time and stuff I even remember you saying at first, you put a lot more offerings even like at the beginning, you're like, oh, we're gonna do all these things. I'm gonna say yes to all these things. And then you're like, wait a second.

Steph Alston (she/her) (24:46.89)
Yeah, it's exciting at first and I think you do want to do all the things. But one thing I really love that Rachel mentioned and we talked about this a little bit in our last episode, Bonnie, about what we value is that one of my big values is stewardship. And I don't think I've been really defined it super well in our last episode, but that sense of responsibility and care for those people you're interested with, whether it's your students or your teachers on your staff. Like we hold this space.

for them in this example. And I really related to what Rachel said about how qualified I felt when I started off and feeling like I needed to get more trainings or being able to have a variety of knowledge. Like I did a 100 hour trauma informed training, a 25 hour again training. So it's so funny because we kind of flipped on that. But I've learned so much about how to really care for all the different people in my space because of those trainings.

So yeah, I think I was excited at first to just add in like everything and then you kind of learn like, oh, if we're being really wise stewards of this space and if I'm being a really considerate studio owner, boss, manager, leader, like what does that look like? And maybe our pacing needs to shift and adapt to like what we can hold right now and learning to not run before we can walk in so many ways. It's a hard lesson to learn because I'm very pizza and I'm very excited to do all the things.

But yeah, like Rachel said too, I think yin is what I really needed when I started yoga, but power was what I loved. And I don't think I would have loved yin at first either, but I've learned so much. Like the slowing down is probably my biggest life lesson. So maybe other yoga studio owners can relate. I think we tend to come from a personality pool that is just like, let's go. We want to do the things and collaborate and make dreams happen. And that's awesome. And we also need to do it.

with titration just like a little bit at a time.

Bonnie (26:46.027)
Hmm, yeah. Hmm. I want to go into like jumping from this conversation of what your expectations were as a teacher. Like I there's a couple of pieces, like I wanted to hear about kind of that because I think it sets up some of the conversation of where you are now of like where you started and stuff you say you teach three a week. Rachel, how many classes do you teach a week now between your two studios?

Rachel Brooks (27:13.046)
definitely. Yeah, that. If there's an ebb and flow there, but like regularly. I'm at nine right now, which is high end for me. Ideally, I'd be at four or five between the two spaces. But that like it's an ebb and flow and it's a newer business too. So like there's going to be more, you know, I'm going to take more on in the beginning.

And then as things go, I can slowly delegate things out and reassign. Yeah, sorry. So like the, our more seeking space, I'm there two times a week as a teacher. And then the new space, I'm there quite a bit because that's me taking on the larger load, also doing like the late night classes. I'm the only one who wants to do that at this time. So.

Bonnie (27:45.075)
Like are you talking about specifically for the Yen space?

Rachel Brooks (28:07.53)
That's just part of it, especially starting something, a new project of any kind. It's like the expectation is like I'm going to take a bunch on in the beginning, and then I'm but it's temporary and I'm going to be able to like slough some of it off as we go. I had something I was going to say it'll come back to me. So.

Bonnie (28:16.544)
Yeah.

Bonnie (28:23.507)
Well, actually, I want to step into talking about money. But before we go there and being paid and paying yourself, let's talk one more thing about classes. And Rachel, because you're referencing these late night classes. Will you say more about this program?

Rachel Brooks (28:38.806)
Yeah. Um, so when I started doing yoga and regularly, and when I, um, went through my certification, I was a bartender and I had been a bartender for a long time. So total of 18 years in the service industry, um, between nightclubs and strip clubs and all kinds of venues, but dive bars, things like that. Um,

And so, yeah, I was still full time, like in full time in the industry when you're bartending is usually four nights a week, like so like there's like Wednesday through Saturday or that I was working. And so I just, once I found yoga, once I started to feel the benefits and the impact it was having and the other areas of my life that it was trickling into, it just, it was on my heart to be able to figure out a way

others who were in the service industry like me. And so when I started Seeking Space, that one of the offerings that I was that I had there was a three, I had a three and a 4am class two times a week there that I was coming to after I would bartend.

because, and I would bring some of the staff from the bar I was working at with me, just because that was something that I noticed when I had started practicing yoga as a student originally, just like the times were like.

you know, 930 a.m. I didn't go to bed until 530 a.m. So there's no way I'm getting up to do that. Or, you know, the times just weren't working for my schedule. And so that was something that was a barrier for me when I first started. And I wanted to be able to figure out a way to pass on like the way that I felt and the relief that I got for my body, for my mind.

Rachel Brooks (30:23.286)
to be able to pass that on to others in the industry and then also to provide that access for others schedule-wise to be able to figure that out. So I offer late night classes three times a week at my new studio. Once I did my Yin training is when I really like found that the Yin portion is what I was looking for to be able to provide late night. So it's essentially a healthy way to wind down after shifts. Not speaking for everyone in the service industry, but my time in the service industry was a lot of drinking after work.

And that's really all that there was to do at that time. So just wanting to find a way to provide something more holistic and healthy for us to do when we get off.

Bonnie (31:03.311)
Thank you for sharing. And I love that you use the word barrier. You're like the time was a barrier. And I think of the phrase all the time, like lower the barrier to entry. I'm like, go practice yoga in your jeans. Like whatever, like how do you lower the barrier to entry into anything? We're going to be more apt to do it if there's like less roadblocks, there's less decisions that make, there's less. And so I love this conversation because both of you are so innovative with that.

You're like, okay, what's a barrier for somebody to enter and to participate? And like, how do we do things differently to make that possible? So yeah, thank you.

Okay, so let's step into this now that we're talking about how much both of you are teaching. Let's talk about money and is yoga a real business?

Bonnie (32:00.013)
Should we get paid?

Rachel Brooks (32:01.722)
Great question. Yeah, I think like, you know, what we were mentioning before this or something that I had mentioned earlier was I feel like, yeah.

And maybe it's the timeframe that I stepped into the yoga industry, which was like what, 2016, 17 is when I started. But like, I feel like there was very much this, this idea. And based off of what I've heard from others too, is that like, yoga is so loving service, community based, free spirited base that it's like, it doesn't mix with business and money and, you know, capitalism, which is what we're in. Right. So it's like,

Um, that's something that has been just something that I've noticed. And I think that I hope to be changing, you know, that even just with the.

conversations I've had with some, especially some of my long term, like long time teachers who've been teaching for 15, 20 years. So they're coming from that like maybe older mentality around what yoga has looked like, what it should be or look like. And having these conversations of like, like empowering them to be like the time and the effort that you have spent, the money that you've spent on the education and the time that you put in, that's all an investment. And you 100%

Rachel Brooks (33:19.816)
that. And so like really just coaching teachers through setting the bar for what their service is. That doesn't mean that you don't do things out of the goodness of your heart at all. That doesn't take away from that at all. But

there's also this and this is what you've done and this is 20 years of experience and practice and an investment that you've made in yourself. So 100% you need to be compensated for that and here's what you should be doing, you know, kind of thing. So that's something that I have been really working on with even speaking that to myself and teachers and yeah, yoga is like a yoga studio is a business. So.

Steph Alston (she/her) (33:58.734)
Yeah, Rachel, you mentioned earlier on that you were working this full-time job while starting your studios. When did that shift for you to now being like, are you still working a side job or is it just the studios or your full-time thing? I'm concerned.

Rachel Brooks (34:14.114)
I don't think, no, no more side jobs, no other nothing, no. That was a conversation that came up quite a few times between myself and my business partner because we were both working totally separate jobs.

And there was that like, this is a dark hole of just working, I can't do any, like I just like, this isn't sustainable. And so I think the first step was starting to pay ourselves for classes, finding a rate that made sense to pay ourselves for classes.

Everything else though was invested into the business just back into the business back into the business and I mean that was Beside like I think maybe year two Two and a half is when we started paying ourselves for classes That is not a sustainable model or way of doing things. I wouldn't not ask anybody else to do that It was just how it played out for me But that was like that was rough like I you know and there's there is this tipping point that I've spoken with other entrepreneurs about to

I've actually had this conversation last week with other people who are going into business or want to go into business for themselves. They're here with their passion creating and starting a business, but they're still at their job. And it's like, when do you make that jump? And it is a jump, and it is scary. And some of it is

Bonnie (35:34.059)
Hmm

Rachel Brooks (35:38.322)
Um, you know, there's a part of it where you are actually limiting what, what the possibilities are for yourself as a business owner or an entrepreneur by staying in the job that you're in. Um, but also the reality of I need money and I need it to be consistent and I need to know it's coming in. So how am I supposed to just make this jump? So I think some of it is like part of what happens when you do make the jump.

of like being all in and there's just no, there's no safety net and you just have to make it work, you know? So there's that tipping point that I finally reached. And that was like when I took over as sole proprietor in 2020, that was mine, my full jump. It was crazy.

Bonnie (36:21.451)
Hmm.

Bonnie (36:26.323)
Yeah.

Steph Alston (she/her) (36:27.859)
I so appreciate you talking about this and the vulnerability of sharing it to Rachel because like one thing I was thinking as you were sharing is how much students want really quality classes. Like people want to come to kick ass yoga studio classes with a teacher that like dude freaking teaching good yoga is such a skill and I don't think it's always appreciated at first by people like like.

because I practice with enough teachers and enough studios. Like when you go in and a teacher makes it feel effortless for you to be able to be in this space where you drop in and you are like, the breath is consistent the whole way through. You feel like on cloud nine and Shavasana, like that teacher deserves the money. Like, because the practice of teaching just in the same way of like practicing in a practice when you're a student, like it takes time.

and patience to like cultivate. And I love at the beginning, Bonnie, how you shared like even being a studio owner, it is this practice of paying attention and studio ownership. It's such a skill to bring together like Rachel, all your years of service industry work, any previous team leadership work, plus your yoga teaching skills now, like you have your 200 hour certification as a baby yoga teacher, now you're running a yoga business. Like students wanna come in and have great classes.

And I wonder sometimes if there's that recognition of all of the hours and like time it takes to get there. Because I have a lot of teachers who work other jobs and this is just a once a week thing for them. And then there's a few people like me who, yoga is the full thing now. But it wasn't always that way. I remember working four different jobs to be able to just make yoga happen a couple times a week. But my teachers who are able to devote...

more time weekly to practice, coming in for mentorship, just being here a few times a week on their mat. It makes a big difference, but not every teacher has that opportunity even to like, come practice, practice teaching, prep classes. It's such an art.

Rachel Brooks (38:33.626)
Absolutely. I 100% agree.

Bonnie (38:34.455)
Hmm. Yeah. Steph, let's jump into, I know that let's go from, like continue on our money conversation. And because we're going to work our way into continuing to talk about teachers and paying teachers. And I feel like it's really important in our conversation here for people who will be listening, who maybe are yoga teachers who aren't studio owners to be like, we're here like.

I am not a studio owner. I just happen to have a lot of friends who are. And something I've considered before, it's not maybe in 20 years when I get bored. Will I get bored? No. We'll see what happens. But to have this conversation that is really transparent around, you know, Rachel, it was like two and a half fish, maybe three years by the time you paid yourself as a studio owner, Steph, it was how long, how many years?

Steph Alston (she/her) (39:34.59)
Well, I came in as a teacher. Like I had already worked at this studio as a teacher, so I continue to pay myself as a teacher. But paying myself as an owner, so any hours of administration outside of that, it's just been like this last month that I started paying myself like a salary. So that's been a year and a half. And I'll let you know how it goes because right now it's an experiment. But truly like I rely a lot on like my partner's support.

Bonnie (39:37.344)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie (39:54.592)
Yeah.

Rachel Brooks (39:57.03)
Hahaha

Steph Alston (she/her) (40:04.01)
like his income carries us pretty much right now but I do have to say there's also been like yeah just getting comfortable with debt, taking out capital loans for like so yeah there's other ways you can work around if you needed to pay yourself right away but for me it's been a while.

Bonnie (40:19.599)
Yeah. Well, and I think this is an important conversation for teachers to hear because studios and group classes don't pay as much as if you were to do one-on-one training. Right? You think about a gym who does one-on-one training, who you can, there's an investment in with one person, they pay a lot because there's a lot of attention given to that one person. That's not how studios are set up. I think it's the way they could be. I think there's some education that we need to go into it for teachers in order to like really teach, really quality.

one-on-ones, but I think there's so much we can already do. But that's not how studios are. Studios are group classes and the reality of what studio owners are holding and trying to navigate and how they're not even paying themselves. They're walking away with zero pay for years, years. And that might not be something that teachers understand. And also we're not asking teachers to work for free.

And so that's why studio owners are walking me with nothing is because there is like this investment into a vision. And so this is in no way a conversation to say like, I've shared the story with both of you that, you know, I've had people message me and say, I have a student that hasn't paid me for like two or three months. And they just told me that we're all in a team and we're like doing a service and like totally gaslit them. And I was like,

you know, that person left that suit, which is great because they should be getting paid because it is a business. They are offering a service. It is part of the service industry. Like we are giving something, even if it like is soul food, even if it feels makes you feel like a better person walking out of it as a student. And that's what we're giving. It is like you're spending money to learn how to do it and you are stepping into it. So I think for anybody who's a teacher, who's listening is like, we're stepping into this conversation too, to talk about money. Cause there's a lot of teachers thinking like,

Why aren't I getting paid? Like how do I make money being a teacher of yoga? And so to have this really transparent conversation that students are working their asses off to make that happen. And it is the desire to be able to pay teachers well.

Steph Alston (she/her) (42:26.106)
Yeah, thank you Bonnie. And I think to that point also like when you look around at other community groups, I'm talking about nonprofits, churches, like other organizations that might not be classified as a standard business, like we're not a retail store. I get that. We're not a restaurant. But in order to keep the doors open and in order to like serve the community well, those places also have to make money. Like a pastor who's full-time at their church like relies on

a lot of the community and the congregation to help fund their housing or the needs of their life. Just as Rachel and I were sharing earlier, we also have livelihoods and if we want to make this really good quality and be able to spend full-time hours on this, I mean, because I do work like 60 plus hours a week to make this all happen, I need to have some kind of...

Takeaway from the business and for my teachers, especially at the beginning It was really important to me to pay them well to pay them consistently to pay them on time and because I chose which we'll talk about in a second to Create an employee relationship versus contractor that came with other kinds of rules and things in California Where to keep up with laws and HR and all this stuff like I was paying out more I'm not just paying the hourly rate or the group class rate. I'm also paying into workers comp

Like there's so much investment into the teachers and them having a quality experience. Like now they even get sick time. That money doesn't come out of nowhere. So to be able to do that and keep our teachers happy, to keep our students happy, like there's a lot of investment that is required in that time and monetary.

Bonnie (44:08.343)
Mm-hmm. Well, and I think both of you are such excellent examples of taking care of your teams. And I think it really is that. I think the community thrives when we take care of our teams as the people who are holding the space. Because if you don't take care of the teachers, the people you're linking arms with, and you're like, well, good luck out there. They're like, wait, what? Wait, I don't know. How do I do this? So you both are excellent examples of that. And

and Steph, you're doing this by contract to think of like pay in specific. There's mentorship as part of this. There's like scheduling as part, like there's a lot of different aspects of building a team and that's not just like, like paying a person, but paying a person is part of this. And I think a really important piece of this conversation because money's a hot topic always. And people steer away from it because it's sticky. And I'm like, no, let's dive in then let's dive in.

Rachel, you hire teachers on contract. So I'd like to, let's have this conversation about contract and employees. So Steph, you talked about employees a little bit. Rachel, will you share a little bit about why you chose to hire teachers via contract workers versus employees?

Rachel Brooks (45:23.514)
I mean, that was kind of by default, essentially, of what it was when we started the business and how it had been done. There has been some shift between different studios deciding on employee versus contractor. It is more of an investment. There is more money required as far as employees go. But.

from what I've been advised, it's a matter of just the agreement, the contract agreement that there is of what the expectations are. The contractor essentially like coming to you with what they're available to work, what their rate is, those types of things, just create that dynamic.

And so, yeah, always, you know, I think, especially since the pandemic too, just always trying to find ways of like, how to keep things sustainable. I think that the main thing as far as being a contractor as a teacher, the difference would be that.

You know, you're not doing you're doing your taxes are different but the process of that you're getting a 1099 rather than having Taxes come out, you know as you get paid we pay bi-weekly So we're it's kind of that same structure though. So they're getting paid two times a month We do a flat rate for class at this time That's something Steph. I was actually gonna ask you about like for different ways I've always tried to think of different ways to try to do like incentives or I know some studios will

You know, you get your flat rate and then a percentage or something based off of how many students there are.

Rachel Brooks (47:01.922)
that can kind of get a little bit sticky sometimes when you have classes that are always at capacity, no matter what, or, you know, so things like that. So always trying to figure out ways to, yeah, just have it feel like, you know, the effort that's being put in, the promotion that teachers are putting in to promoting their classes and promoting people coming into the studio and providing special events and things like that are always just like ways that I'm trying to figure out how to like make it so that it's more of a,

viable option in career, you know, like, I think that kind of came up for me when we were just starting the money part of the conversation is like, is yoga teaching actually a viable career for you to go into? Like, are you actually going to be able to pay your bills and live off of it? I can't say that that's the case, you know, like, I see people doing it. I still see that they're still living pay paycheck to paycheck, like, there's a bit there's a strategy. And also, like, when you know, when we're looking at

what the, you know, we spoke about this a little bit before we started our conversation here, but what is the range of pay? What's the standard that's been set? How do we change what that standard is that would actually still be sustainable for the business to stay open?

to be able to continue running as a business, but teachers to actually be able to maybe fully step away from their work and be able to do what they really love and are passionate about and be able to live off of it. It's really something that has been on my mind for years of trying to figure out like, how do we make this work? How do we break the mold of what we were shown is the way to do it? Because it's obviously not working, you know, like there's people, I mean, it's working, but there's people who are, you know, like you've mentioned, there's plenty of teachers who feel like

compensated for the time and the effort that they're putting in and the service that they're providing and I know as a studio owner it Can feel sometimes like I want to I want to give so much more But this is what's coming through the door and I don't you know, and I feel like I don't know what else I could do You know, so yeah

Bonnie (49:04.755)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I appreciate this because I think it requires conversations like this where there's more than just one of us in the room. We have to be in the room, be like, we want to change things. How do we change things? And we can't just say, we want it different and then nothing happens. We have to have it in an experiment. And Steph, I love that word. I love that you used that word already in our time here together of like, I don't know, I'm going to pay myself to be a...

a boss, like, we'll see how it goes. Right? But I think it is gonna take experimenting with saying, like, I always tell teachers, I'm like, this is the best time ever to be a part of yoga. This is like, we have so much knowledge, we are like, constantly learning things, we know that we don't know everything, we know that like, yoga is only growing. So like, this is an amazing time to be part of this. And also, if we don't like something about what's happening,

Like there's a lot of us that could help make a change and not in a way of like, we can approach this I think really in two ways. I'm like, you choose, are you gonna do it because like you hate it or are you gonna do it because you love it? Or do you wanna create change because you're so unhappy or are you gonna create change because you want this to thrive? And I think we have to like really be conscious of ourself of the root reason behind that because if we're coming at it with more positivity

We wanna do this thing. We know that if we're able to like move this forward and expand this, that it's gonna serve not just ourselves, but like it's gonna serve our, or like that's what we're doing this thing that's already isn't paying a lot. So we're like, this isn't like just trying to be self-serving, but it's actually gonna help it thrive and help more people be able to find more home in themselves, in our communities, if we can look at it in this positive way. Be like, let's expand this together. What does that mean? How can we experiment with it?

And we have to turn it up as like an upward motion rather than a like a down, this is terrible. Like I think that mindset is gonna be really important as we continue to like redefine the industry, I think.

Steph Alston (she/her) (51:15.066)
Yeah, Bonnie, I'm so glad that you're bringing space to these conversations and having us here to be able to talk about this because I'm so curious and I would love if there was a poll and maybe there is already of what is considered standard if there even is one. I think so much of it depends on looking at your area, first country, but of course then within even the United States, from state to state it's going to vary.

between I think region and then also just employment laws. So that can make such a big difference. And like when I worked in corporate yoga settings, I mean, I wanna say, now this is, it's 2024. This was a few years ago. And minimum wage has changed a little bit since then, but I'm pretty sure I was making like $15 or $16 an hour, like minimum wage for California at the time, hourly pay for my classes. And we were expected like, get in, teach, get out. Like.

Bonnie (52:10.143)
Was this core power?

Steph Alston (she/her) (52:11.646)
It was not core power, but a different, similar structured studio. Um, yeah, we're like, you, you came in, you taught your class, you got out. So like, I was walking away with maybe $30 a class, um, for a two hour window between prep and take down. But you know, then I'm an employee. So like taxes are getting taken out and all of that stuff too. Whereas like with a contractor later, you file your own taxes and you're kind of your own business. And so that can cause its own. Uh, like.

pros and cons as well if you have contractors who like they might be running their own website and be promoting themselves. And so I don't mean to jump too far ahead but like Rachel what you were saying with teachers who are able to make it their full-time thing, what I've seen with my yoga teacher friends who like this is their livelihood, it's because they're running trainings, they are like hustling to do retreats and workshops and things outside of group classes. I don't know anyone right now that just as a casual yoga teacher...

teaches at one location and makes any decent money. Like typically you have to diversify most teachers, including myself, especially when you're starting off, you're teaching at three or four studios at the same time and they all have different expectations and different pay. It's like quite the quilt of like piecing together what does yoga experience look like. So in our area.

just this is speaking from my experience and my current awareness of studios around here. And this is part of that practice of paying attention as a studio owner is like, are we listening? Are we practicing at other studios and hearing what's happening? Anywhere between 35 to 45 per class has felt pretty standard in Sacramento. Some people might get less than that, some might get more. I had a teacher recently who had contacted our studio to see about jumping in. She was like, hey, do you have need for teachers? I know she's an experienced teacher.

I said, yes, I need a teacher for this time slot. She said, okay, how much do you start people at? I told her it's based on experience, but this is kind of where I start people. And she had indicated, oh, I'm taking away more like $75 per class right now at this studio. And I'm like, hey, I totally respect that. I'm not at the place where I can pay that much per class. So then I said, would you be interested in a workshop like commission-based?

Steph Alston (she/her) (54:23.202)
thing we can do a series, but then you get paid out a percentage of the revenue." And she said, yes, I would totally love to do that. So shifting into a different way of working with teachers, like for some people, the group class thing just doesn't cut it. And I'm also not at the place where I think they had established more of the structure, Rachel, that you talked about, where maybe per attendance, if they're getting packed classes, they can add on more to their hourly rate. Yeah, so it really varies. And I would love to hear like, what is the standard currently in yoga world? Because I don't know if there is one.

Rachel Brooks (54:54.262)
Yeah, I mean, I regionally from my awareness and this is coming from teachers who every teacher almost every teacher that is on staff works at another space like that's just that is how it is. And you're you know, you're right. And maybe

just to address the part about like every teacher that you know, as a career yoga teacher, they're doing all these things. It's retreats, it's trainings, it's workshops, it's all these things to, you know, to supplement what they're getting, you know, for their group rate, group class rate. And maybe that won't, maybe that is still always going to be a part of the structure. I don't know that there would ever, I mean, not to be limiting, but that's the, is like, is there really a way to make it to where you would only be able, you would only have to teach group classes.

and you wouldn't have to do all those things and be able to live off that, I'm not sure. But definitely thinking about bettering the structure for group classes and the rates. But from my understanding, from what other teachers have told me, I have one or two studio owners that I have spoken to before. It's anywhere from like about what you said, but a bit higher range here in Portland, I would say. So like...

30, 35, maybe up to 70, depending on the studio. And I think you gotta look at too, like the studio's location, how many people they have on staff. So if you've got five teachers, five really seasoned teachers compared to 15 or 20 with this wide range, so that's gonna depend on what is available too.

And also looking at, you know, what they're charging for memberships and, you know, things like that. So I think all those factors come into play, but I would say there is, you know, I know of some, you know, some places that pay, you know, 65, 70 per class. And so, you know, that's, that's a thing. So.

Bonnie (56:40.907)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it really does vary broadly across the United States. And having worked with teachers in all different states, just the United States, there is like $13 could be average. Or like minimum wage could be an average pay for a class. And that's what people walk away with, because the cost of living is perhaps lower in some places versus somewhere like Portland, where it's a little bit higher cost of living.

Yeah, so I think there is quite a range. And of course, there's so many different ways of pay versus if it's just one class, you get this much or a certain amount and then plus some per head. I know I have worked at a studio that did a scale. So if it was zero to five, you got this much. If it was six to 10, you got this much. So it was set, but it went up in certain increments depending on the number of people in class.

And so I think all of it, it's interesting. It's an interesting game because there's some times where students, you're just going to have more full classes than others. So like then it's the spots, like those, those certain timeframes are just like better for people and their schedules or perhaps the location of the schedule or the clientele of that schedule or of that studio. And so those classes and those teachers will get paid more. And so even if, and you don't even have to have like,

Like I would say like evening classes are at least here in Portland are fairly full often and so You could have a teacher teaching an evening class that has no social media presence that's not trying to like share their class but has a full class and Does an excellent job where somebody else is hustling it trying to get people to come to their class at like, you know

Rachel Brooks (58:29.742)
PPL.

Bonnie (58:29.923)
nine o'clock, right? Or whatever, like eight. I mean, even sometimes late classes do, but like, regardless, like they're like trying, they're hustling, trying to do it, but like nobody's coming because of the demographic or the location or, you know, who, who knows? So I think it isn't, it's like, it's an interesting thing. I don't think there's a one answer. And I think just having that continued conversation with teachers of being like, we're figuring this out as owners. I want you to get paid.

And also, like any teacher that's listening to our conversation, I want you to get paid. I know there's one teacher I was working with that worked for a studio that really catered to folks who don't have a lot of money to be able to have yoga offered to them. And having accessibility and inclusivity as a part of yoga and to those communities that might not be able to afford it and be able to attend a yoga class, that's crazy important.

And if your whole studio is based off of that, that means you're not making very much money. And so those teachers are being asked to do a lot. And this teacher is working with ultimately had to give it up because she's like, I'm not getting paid. Like they're not paying enough to the studio. So this is where I think it comes to this idea of like cashflow and how does the studio make money? Because the studio does need to make money. The teachers are investing a lot of time and energy and attention.

And so if somebody wants to have a studio that like caters to communities like this, great. It might not be an awesome idea to only cater to those communities, but to have certain classes because you're not going to be able to make the revenue to actually be able to like provide the service because you won't be able to hire teachers. So, um, Steph, will you talk a little bit more about the idea of like capital to consider and the, some of the, the cash flow management that you have discovered has been helpful.

Steph Alston (she/her) (01:00:23.502)
Yes, and I appreciate you asking about that. In particular, the piece you just said too, of like, what came to mind for me was we do want to make yoga so accessible and we have partnerships like out here there's certain insurance company programs that we'll work with to be able to have like folks that are older and on a fixed income be able to come and take classes and they use like insurance credits. Well, we get paid out as a studio much lower.

than our standard class rates for that in order to offer those kinds of things. And we also do karma class and community class offerings regularly to make things more accessible. In addition to the classes, so it's like I have a wonderful colleague that I work with where she'll say sometimes, like I work with people with money so that I can work with people without money. And that is kind of the reality of like, if you're able to sustain the business with like most of the memberships that come in.

then you can offer those other accessible points of like scholarships of, you know, people being able to come in at a lower rate, a sliding scale. And that's been really valuable here too. But in realistic terms of like starting off, because I think what you were asking before was kind of looking at when I started the business, what kind of money did it really take to like get going? And then kind of where we're at now with it too. I realized very quickly that I,

underestimate how much money it takes to just run business. So I mentioned before I took over a studio that was already in business. But like to do that, I had to create a new entity. Like I formed my own corporation. We bought out the business that was here already. So it was an asset sale, which I talked about a little bit in the previous episode. So there was the money just to buy it like the valuation of the business and to take over the assets and like buy the customer list and all that stuff. But then I also had to have money to like

put signs on the building and to like all of the rebranding that we did and all of that took money plus then to be able to front some money to pay people like myself before the money was consistently coming in just from memberships. And so starting off and like this could vary from place to place and depending on what's asked of your business, but like I talked to an accountant and I talked to a lawyer and that was really helpful. And I think even with the like

Steph Alston (she/her) (01:02:48.278)
few tens of thousands that I thought I had in excess, like from our original loan, I could have definitely worked with more. Like my husband and I talked about it afterward and I'm like, oh my gosh, I could have easily gotten a hundred thousand dollar or plus loan on top of buying the business. Like I just got the loan we needed to buy it plus like a few 10,000 higher because I thought, oh, you know, 30,000 or whatever extra should be enough. Oh my gosh. Like

And I'm not sure what it is from studio to studio, and this can very much vary as well, but my understanding on like one-off boutique yoga studios, like you should be expecting kind of like 25,000 in revenue minimum, like per month coming through your studio just to run stuff. And I mean, that might not be right when you start, but like definitely now the way our business is running, like I have a lot of money coming in and out every month.

to be able to pay for rent and utilities and payroll and all of the things that need to happen, plus maybe have a profit. Like you and I talked about last time, what does profitable mean? Yeah, so definitely like understanding what is available out there as far as like loans and grants. Like we apply for grants regularly at our studio as well, which I don't know that all do and being a nonprofit or not can make a difference on like what's available. But yeah, the getting a cashflow manager account.

Bonnie (01:04:00.928)
Yeah.

Steph Alston (she/her) (01:04:08.342)
was something we did right away, which is literally a line of credit, but it works like cash. I can pay people's paychecks with it. And so we have a cashflow management account, aside from my working capital, that helps just keep the bills running from month to month until sometimes that money can come in from underneath. So I think also looking at how many members do we need to be able to sustain XYZ in terms of expansion and growth as well.

So looking at like how many members do I need that are paying full price so that I can offer low price options? How many members or people do I need to fill this workshop before I can start giving discount? You know, like so you're kind of looking always at like what discounts can I offer people? How can I make this really accessible? But also knowing I need to hit this number over here. So it's that constant game. Yeah.

Bonnie (01:05:01.594)
Yeah, thank you for sharing. Rachel, do you want to add anything else to this?

Rachel Brooks (01:05:05.594)
I was just gonna say it's a lot. It's a lot. I mean, yeah, just thinking about contractor fees, the things that go out just for the classes taught and.

Yeah, like I think too, it can be easy just to see like, oh, classes are busy, there's so many people coming in, but it's like, you know, realizing that the foundation of the business is really those like regular memberships that are there and then everything else is kind of bonus if that, if there's, you know, class package purchases and things like that, but.

I mean, yeah, just a loan going out for the fees is like, you know, anywhere between 10 to $15,000 and then whatever your rent might be on top of that. So yeah, for sure. Meeting. Yeah, that 25 I think is a very is a very like relevant number to have to be coming in to be able to just cover and that's like that's just covering stuff. You know, it's not being really profitable or having a bunch of extra. So yeah. What?

Bonnie (01:06:04.755)
Yeah, yeah, thank you for sharing. I guess I wanna do like a call out to anybody who's listening to this to be like, if you have a nugget of an idea, right? Like, this is like, share it. Email me, hello at bonnieweeks.com. We are going to continue conversation, Rachel and Steph and I, we have something that we're trying to put together for the end of this year.

as a potential thing for studio owners. And you will have hear more podcasts from us as well on studio ownership. Like this is such a brush of the surface. And Rachel and Steph, you both have so many ways. I'm like, oh my gosh, you could teach for like nine hours on just the things that both of you had said each, like right now. So there's, it gives me, there's a lot of knowledge that you have and a lot of experience that this is...

Steph Alston (she/her) (01:06:47.252)
Thank you.

Bonnie (01:07:02.079)
very enlightening conversation. And yeah, I mean, I have ideas, but I'm like, I don't even know if they're like viable ideas and like all the ways that we need to come together with some ideas. And so anybody who's listening, please like, drop me a message and let me know how this podcast landed and share it, share it with other studio owners, share it with other teachers. If you're a teacher, then let us know, like we love to hear about your experience getting paid or whether that...

It feels positive or negative. I think the collection of that or message me on the gram and let us know about that so we can continue this conversation between the three of us and we can bring those sort of conversations to this live time. We would love to hear from you. We will continue this conversation in other podcasts. I will continue to link this in the show notes with between all of them so you can go back and listen to all of them together. We have, like the topics are forever, but.

I'm really grateful for both of you, Steph and Rachel, to share so honestly and to be both yoga teachers and studio owners and to be making like such a difference in your communities and to be truly changing the lives of everybody, everybody around you. And all the grit and all the 60 plus hours a week and all the late nights and all of it is a lot.

and it is changing people's lives, like truly. So thank you both, thank you for both being here.

Steph Alston (she/her) (01:08:37.702)
Thank you, Bonnie. I feel like it's such a joy to have this conversation and Rachel to be able to meet you, although we've not met in real life yet. Like, I love the conversations we have. It makes me feel like I'm not alone in this as a studio owner. And even with all the challenges, like, it's the best job ever. Like, I just feel like I have to throw that in at the end. Like, every day that I get to show up at work and look at what we get to do, I'm like, this is a dream. Like, I worked in corporate...

Rachel Brooks (01:08:37.71)
Thank you so much.

Steph Alston (she/her) (01:09:03.954)
jobs for so long, you know, behind a desk that to set up for yoga classes and workshops and be on my mat like with other people who love this work is just such a joy.

Rachel Brooks (01:09:16.062)
Yeah, absolutely. 100%. Very rewarding. Feels really good. And I'm excited to see what we get to do with it.

Bonnie (01:09:25.383)
Okay, thank you all for tuning in and we'll be on the watch for more.