Ep. 24 - James McQuiggan - Security Awareness Advocate at KnowBe4

This week's episode of Privacy Please, Cam and Gabe have a serious, yet facetious back and forth with the man, the myth, the legend, Mr. James McQuiggan. We discuss his story and how he started out in working behind the scenes for theater, his journey to becoming an Advocate in Security, his spirit animal, and why Dr. Who is everything! Please enjoy and join us for this very funny and informative episode on iTunes, Spotify or where you get your podcasts!

 https://www.linkedin.com/in/jmcquiggan/

Transcript

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Cameron Ivey: We are live. Okay.

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Cameron Ivey: Awesome. Alright.

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Cameron Ivey: Alright ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to privacy, please. I am your host Cameron IV and with me as always is Gabe gums and today we have a very special guest on his name is James maclagan

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Cameron Ivey: He is a security awareness advocate for know before and James. Thank you so much for coming on, man, this is, this is going to be awesome.

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James McQuiggan: Oh, I'm thrilled to be here. I've been looking forward to this all week is gonna be a lot of fun.

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Cameron Ivey: Great. So I guess to start things off.

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Cameron Ivey: Or did you just tell the listeners a little bit about yourself. You know where you came from, how you became security awareness advocate and you know where you're looking to head into

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James McQuiggan: Sure. So wow, where I came from. I've had the distinct pleasure of being born in England raised in Canada and now living in the US for the last 30 years so

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James McQuiggan: But my start into security into computers goes all the way back to high school was in high school, and there were two things I really enjoyed doing the most

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James McQuiggan: One was working in computers and programming them and doing all that fun stuff. The other one was theater where I was in the technical aspects of it. Exactly. Being a performer on stage. I loved all the technical the lighting all the sound.

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James McQuiggan: And then when I left high school. It's like, all right, computers or theater. So I went theater.

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James McQuiggan: And I followed a followed my education doing several years of college and university and then work professionally here in Orlando, with the Orlando opera company. So I did it for about six years and got to the point my life where you know the money socks.

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James McQuiggan: The, the lifestyle was fun. I really enjoyed it a lot of life skills. But then it was like now I gotta, I gotta you know for family and life and what I want. So I got back into computers and that was the late 90s and eight plus certification and working at a help desk.

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James McQuiggan: One of the things that I do now is I'm a college professor Valencia college here in town. And one of the things that I tell all my students is

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James McQuiggan: You know when you first start working out in it, you have to work out desk for a variety of reasons you, it gives you communication skills. It gives you troubleshooting skills you're typing skills improved tremendously.

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James McQuiggan: And it gives you that that environment of getting in with a company, but I started out as a help desk work did that did that for about three years. And then I got hired by a little German company here in town called Siemens, and I worked

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James McQuiggan: In their part of the business. But we had a I started working with a database and doing database management.

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James McQuiggan: And then I got into another group by the year later. And that was dealing with a monitoring system that was installed at power plants and I basically went from working on the application to doing installations to

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James McQuiggan: Then working with networking and the networking aspect was a lot of fun because then again the network security taught myself how to configure routers and firewalls. That was back in the day of pics P IX firewalls, so

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James McQuiggan: That was, that was when I I I broke my teeth on was configuring those and then learn the Cisco iOS.

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James McQuiggan: And then

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James McQuiggan: One of the things in the electricity industry that was very interesting was a thing called NERC sip, which was a set of regulations for power plants transmission facilities that they had to follow by law or would be

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James McQuiggan: fined and these were our customers. And so they would come to us and say, hey, are you guys nerds of compliant and my boss friend domain goes, Are we next up compliant.

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James McQuiggan: So that took me down the road of compliance and even more security eventually got my CSP 2008 and then I worked for our corporate security office and discovered where my true passion was with security and that was security awareness.

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James McQuiggan: Coordinated our information security advisory team and was basically communicating monthly to the business all the different departments and talking about security once a month, had a meeting with all of them. There was, we had a couple hundred of them, and that was great.

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James McQuiggan: And then once it

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James McQuiggan: got the call from the CEO of our wind division that said, hey, we're having to deal with all this stuff, you know that stuff right like yeah so over the weekend. I went for about three years. And then last summer.

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James McQuiggan: I had the opportunity to meet with some folks from know before and by October I was one of their employees as a security awareness advocate and basically with them. It's all about promoting security, security awareness.

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James McQuiggan: Going to conferences, giving presentations writing media responses.

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James McQuiggan: Blogs white papers. Yeah. And I absolutely love it. You know, people talk about the dream job.

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James McQuiggan: Yeah, that's that's right there. It's a lot of fun. I really enjoy the opportunity to be able to talk to people, whether it's through podcasts, whether now with coven

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James McQuiggan: It's all been through the lens for the last several months. Starting to get the itch wanting to get back out on the road. But I think 2020 is a wash for for coven for all the presentations this year. This year DEF CON was really cancelled. So

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James McQuiggan: Well, yeah. So it's been it's been a fun ride learned a lot from the theater and now just glad to be part of it's interesting meeting. Lots of great people and and learning lots of cool stuff.

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G3: Awesome. Well, speaking of meeting. Lots of great people I met this great person on the show James I don't know when we meet for five years ago.

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G3: Yeah, so something along those lines and and we met in the local security you know arena in in

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G3: In in the Florida area, if you would. Central Florida, which

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G3: You are. You're heavily embedded in. So tell us a little bit about some of the other security work that you do in and around the community. I think folks would be interested in hearing about that.

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James McQuiggan: Wow. Yeah.

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James McQuiggan: So when I got my CSP. I had heard about is to say, and I'd heard about. I knew about it square, but they didn't have any chapters. So I went along to localize as a chapter

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James McQuiggan: And got involved with them and became their vice president and then I remember getting a phone call was like March. It was the first year I had been doing it.

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James McQuiggan: And the current president said all right I'm moving to Alaska, you're in charge. I'm like, Okay, how do you run a chapter, you know, I'd only seen him do it for a few months at a few meetings.

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James McQuiggan: And long ball he took off and I got dropped into the deep end and very good, very much got active with the ISIS. A international folks and

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James McQuiggan: In 2014 we have the conference here in Orlando, the big, huge, it is to say one and that just opened up the door to meeting a more people and getting involved with them.

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James McQuiggan: But then also, at the same time with i c squared, they have there is c squared Foundation. And one of the things that came out of it.

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James McQuiggan: That I really, really enjoyed was there, safe and secure online program and that was geared to kids middle school fifth grade fourth grade.

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James McQuiggan: And one of the cool things was is My wife's a school teacher and she taught fifth grade Social Studies at

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James McQuiggan: The school like 10 minutes from here and I said, so I got this cool program. I'd love to come teach your class about it. He's like, You're gone down.

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James McQuiggan: So I not only did her fifth grade class, but the other five fifth grade classes they had there as well.

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James McQuiggan: I did it. That year, and for three more years after that I did it. Middle school I was doing into churches of doing it at other schools.

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James McQuiggan: Have kind of like a little circuit going here in Central Florida going and talking to the students about online safety everything from your phones, you know, this was

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James McQuiggan: When I started doing it, you know, kids were having computers, maybe mom and dad's laptop, there weren't these things they didn't have the smartphones.

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James McQuiggan: They were just coming out with having, you know, becoming more and more popular but kids were starting to get them. And by the time

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James McQuiggan: After about five years pretty well. Every kid had a smartphone. When I was going to do these presentations. So it was no longer talking about Facebook.

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James McQuiggan: It was talking about what you post on Instagram and knowing that if you post it, and you're not securing your profile that anybody can come find it.

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James McQuiggan: And when I said anybody. I knew I got to the kids because it was always the kids in the back and their eyes were wide and they were like, anybody can see this, you know, so

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James McQuiggan: They got thinking, oh, you know, just because I'm you know I'm allowing my trying. It's all my friends, but not realizing that if their account was in private everybody could see it. And so that was that was key.

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James McQuiggan: When I did those presentations and then I've been actively involved with ice squared.

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James McQuiggan: For the last several years with their chapter I run the Central Florida. CHAPTER I did the ice as a one for about three and a half years. And now for the last three and a half years. I've done the ice squared one

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James McQuiggan: Last year, the chapter got chapter, we were recognized is the chapter for North America, which was fantastic.

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James McQuiggan: And say,

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Cameron Ivey: Congratulations. Yeah.

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James McQuiggan: I owe it to the Members, I owe it to the board, but it was great. And so now, and of course with Kobe that's put that to a grinding halt. I've known some other chapters and started up virtual meetings, but

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James McQuiggan: For me it's all about the networking. It's all about meeting people and having conversations and you can't do that really on zoom meetings or on

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James McQuiggan: You know what other platforms you have, it's just, it's difficult. So we're kind of in limbo right now trying to figure out what we're going to do, but I do miss the face to face interactions and but yeah between is c squared.

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James McQuiggan: I've been involved. I was involved with the info sec World Conference as well for the last several years, of course, you and I both presented there this week game, which was great.

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Yeah.

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James McQuiggan: I was like, one of the first ones up on Monday morning. It's like what their am right after the keynote.

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James McQuiggan: So I had a good turnout. I was happy to see it and yeah so and hopefully next year we'll be all face to face at

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James McQuiggan: Back here in Orlando.

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G3: And that'd be great. That'd be great. So your story about talking to the kids about, you know, being secure online it this show is called privacy.

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G3: Privacy, please. It's very much privacy oriented that story is very much rooted in the heart of privacy, however.

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G3: You can't have privacy without security, you can have security without privacy but not vice versa. Right. And we talked a lot on this show about

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G3: You know, cyber St. Louis and private security and privacy risks and how at the center of that is data security.

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G3: But a lot of our shows today to really focus, kind of on the privacy risk. We've dabbled a bit in the cyber security risk. But one of the reasons having you on today is really exciting for us is we really want to dig into more of the cyber security risk side of it.

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G3: Because again,

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G3: You know, without cybersecurity, one cannot achieve privacy.

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G3: And and subsequently on this show a lot. We talked about the human factor I think on our last two or three shows. We've talked a lot about you know how people play a part in

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G3: In the overall larger space of cyber security and privacy risk aka data security. And so I'd love to hear your thoughts on how the human factor that plays into the security side of world because

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G3: Again, I can't say it enough, there is no privacy without security there just isn't I can have security without privacy but not vice versa. Sure.

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James McQuiggan: Yeah, no, I agree. But yeah, with regards to, you know, the human factor in cyber security. It's a key thing, you know, a lot of the time, and I'm guilty of this back in my days of working in a help desk.

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James McQuiggan: We'd have somebody call up going I can find the any key say okay you know my cup holders broken and it was the old CD ROM tray. Right.

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G3: Right.

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James McQuiggan: The jokes of yesteryear. But I remember being there going oh my god. These people are so stupid. They don't even know how to use a computer. People need to have driver's license. They got a car, people should get a computer license to use a computer.

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James McQuiggan: And I'm guilty of it you know the ID 20 years if you spell that out, you'll get it or

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James McQuiggan: Bad, you know,

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James McQuiggan: Yeah, just between keyboard and chair.

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G3: I always get like every day.

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James McQuiggan: Yeah. Um, but one of the things is, and I you know I touched upon it, you know, people should get a licensed on how to use a computer, but I think that's a lot of the big problem that's out there when it comes to the human factor and cyber security is

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James McQuiggan: They just don't know. Or they know and they don't care. And when they know and they don't care, then you're getting into human nature, you're looking at culture.

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James McQuiggan: And you know, it's not a bad thing because if you think about it, you're driving down the road in your car and your, your zip and down I for whatever

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James McQuiggan: Speed limit 70 miles an hour. Yeah, I know it's 70 but I'm doing at I got somewhere to be. You know, I know the rule is 70 miles an hour. I don't do I care must not because I'm doing it because I got somewhere to be.

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James McQuiggan: You, you're an employee in an organization and you're getting these emails. It's like, here's another one of these test phishing emails delete delete delete.

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James McQuiggan: Or I don't care. I'm going to click on everything. And I've met those people. And so a lot of it comes down to, you know, within your organization, having a policy that reinforces

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James McQuiggan: Those type of assessments, when you're doing that, like for example with fishing.

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James McQuiggan: Your policies is what dictates how people to behave or the organization or technology is supposed to be behave

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James McQuiggan: Relating back to your principles relating back to your vision, your mission statement for your company.

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James McQuiggan: And if you're an organization that has a lot of intellectual property has a lot of very sensitive PII information PCI credit card information, so forth.

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James McQuiggan: And you have employees that are continually clicking the links and filling these assessments. Well, they're not abiding by the rules of the organization.

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James McQuiggan: You know, we all make mistakes, you know, and just company somebody clicks on a link, you don't fire them if it's there seven time in two months. Well, okay. Hopefully there's been conversations. Hopefully there's been ways to work with them additional training discussions.

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James McQuiggan: And so forth, versus just, you know, walking them out the door because you know they can't they can't recognize efficient link.

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James McQuiggan: But essentially, it comes down to. Are they a good fit for the organization and you know I'd also like to think back to coming out of Siemens were

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James McQuiggan: Working in power plants and wind farms. It's all about health and safety.

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James McQuiggan: It's all about, you know, when you go up climbing up a tower. You've got the harness on your last off your, you know, your you don't have anything in your pockets can fall out, you know, and if anything happens, that there's an almost an accident.

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James McQuiggan: You then you know you have to then go through the report and everything else the same thing with cyber security.

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James McQuiggan: You know, we almost need that like zero days and I've talked about it before where you almost need that zero x number of days since our last cyber security incident, you know,

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James McQuiggan: Or x number of days and somebody clicked on a fishing link, you know, if you have that. And then everybody is a as a community is in their culture of the organization come together and you know strive to make sure that they don't have those problems.

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James McQuiggan: And, you know, if you can work the human layer, you know, that takes care of a lot of the problems because when you think about what what causes these data breaches, what is the root cause of those data breaches.

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James McQuiggan: Where you know you look at ransomware well that get, how does it get in, it gets in either because you've got RDP open on your external firewall.

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James McQuiggan: You've got or you've got somebody that's clicking links or you've got somebody or you've got unpatched or in configured equipment that's sitting on your perimeter. But a lot of the time it's because somebody gets an email.

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James McQuiggan: They react to it they click on the link. They open at attachment, in essence, it opens it up to the bad guys. I always like to use the, the notion of, you know, if you're at home.

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James McQuiggan: You're living in a neighborhood and you start hearing about a rash of burglaries going on.

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James McQuiggan: Well, then you're going to take the proper steps to make sure that your home is protected, you're gonna make sure that security systems on you've got your monitoring turned on. You got motion sensor lights, maybe bars on the windows. Hopefully not.

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James McQuiggan: You might even have that beware of dog sign in the front window which if you have three cats. Nobody knows. You've got a dog unless

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Cameron Ivey: They can be vicious

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James McQuiggan: It could be vicious cats. Yeah.

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Cameron Ivey: Hey,

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Cameron Ivey: Cats have no regrets.

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Cameron Ivey: I'm just gonna say

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G3: We did talk about how cats want to kill

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G3: I see that as a cat lover.

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James McQuiggan: Yeah, but the minute somebody walks into my house, my cats take off so

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James McQuiggan: Unless you're touching their food bowl or their little rocks. Yeah, forget it. Yeah.

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James McQuiggan: And then they might be your friend. But I have a beware of dog sign and on my friend window. And when you ring my doorbell. You hear barking dogs. Granted it freaks. The cats out every single time, but

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James McQuiggan: I had, I had somebody stopped by my house drop something off and they knew we didn't have dogs and they're like, I didn't know you had a dog. I said,

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James McQuiggan: I don't, I said, but it makes you think I do. So when it comes to, you know, trying to break into my own you know there's you thinking there's a dog there. So you're kind of getting away from it.

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James McQuiggan: Same thing goes with, you know, in an organization, you know, and this is kind of like the more security people

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James McQuiggan: In the leadership positions. If you know organizations are getting broken into and data being stolen. What are you doing for your home, your organization to make sure that doesn't happen a lot of that does come down to the human to the human behaviors, the culture in the organization.

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James McQuiggan: We heard gave you probably heard it as well. The, the keynote for Monday for info sec room Jamil and he was talking about within speedy know spirit.

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G3: Yeah.

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James McQuiggan: Basically culture is a part of one of the four pillars for their company for security is all about human culture and the different things that they do. And I was just like, yes.

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James McQuiggan: You know, that's kind of like, you know, I look at security awareness programs or security programs in general, you know, and you've got your ad hoc you've got one that you've got something going on.

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James McQuiggan: And then when you've gotten an automated assessment program and you're doing training and people are going through it. That's like phase three phase four is now when you start everybody's doing it without thinking it's all automated on the human level. And it's a part of that culture.

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James McQuiggan: So, yeah.

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Cameron Ivey: So I have a question.

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Cameron Ivey: If you. I don't know if you want to put this in.

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Cameron Ivey: It for your company or for just in general, if you were, I guess we can put yourself in the seat of maybe some of the companies that you try to educate around security or maybe some of the schools are you teaching if they had an extra X amount of budget.

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Cameron Ivey: How would you spend it, and why or how would you tell them to spend it when it comes to security.

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James McQuiggan: Good question, how to spend it on security. So for everything that you're going to do in your organization, you're going to have your procedures, you're going to have your technology and you're going to have your people.

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James McQuiggan: And, you know, first of all, I'm going to, I'm going to look at, okay, where where's our weakest link. Where are the problems that we've got the organization.

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James McQuiggan: You know, our emails getting in uncontrollably. Okay, then we do we need to bump up the technology aspects, the email gateways and make those a little more secure.

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James McQuiggan: Dear people know how to spot a fishing as a phishing email, you know, do we need to do more security awareness. But for me, a lot of it comes down to is, OK, let's see where we need to spend the money.

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James McQuiggan: Because overall when it comes to security awareness programs and at least from from know before

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James McQuiggan: I can't speak to other companies, but I know from the know before perspective, it is a lot cheaper to get security awareness training and fishing assessments and that full program.

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James McQuiggan: Than it is for a data breach. I mean, you know, the, what was it was from the figures I saw the other day, the average ransom nowadays. And that's just an easy one to pick, but the average ransomware fee is about $114,000 average

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James McQuiggan: On average, it's about $760,000 to remediate if you get hit with ransomware I assure you, any security awareness program is going to be worth a 10th of that or less depending on how many employees, you've gotten everything else.

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Cameron Ivey: Yeah.

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James McQuiggan: If you can, you know, you can educate and get your employees and get the culture that's a part of it, then you're looking at your technology aspects as well and get that, you know, because then you make it less work on the humans.

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James McQuiggan: Because you're being it you've got the technology to be able to stop the phishing attacks and but if a phishing attack happens

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James McQuiggan: And some malware drops and you want to have that technology to be able to spot it and recover from it. So if you can do. You know, you see it, you detected you recover from it, then that's going to help as well.

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James McQuiggan: You know, so I think, honestly, a lot of it comes down to is you know where the weakest links and then addressing them that way.

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G3: The answer is

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Is

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James McQuiggan: An interview. So if you have

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James McQuiggan: Dollars, what would you do

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Cameron Ivey: Will send you an email will let you know.

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G3: About a million dollars, but it is a question that we do ask him to show once in a while the exact opposite.

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G3: If you only had $100

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Cameron Ivey: Right.

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G3: It's been on security, what would you do

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G3: And I'll see you in raising

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James McQuiggan: Um, I only had $100 to spend on security in general overall

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Overall,

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Cameron Ivey: About getting creative

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James McQuiggan: Yeah.

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James McQuiggan: Probably go out and buy an expensive bottle of bourbon cuz

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James McQuiggan: I'm

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James McQuiggan: Hundred dollars. Well, I think, you know, part of it would be, you know, you can't buy any technology for hundred bucks so

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G3: When was maybe, but I don't know.

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G3: When Rob, maybe, but who knows that.

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James McQuiggan: You pay for winner.

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James McQuiggan: Um, I've seen some means on

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On

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James McQuiggan: Honestly, I think what it may come down to is

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James McQuiggan: To be creative. I would probably go out and buy a handful of $10 gift cards for Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts or whatever your coffee place and I would give those out to the first 10 people that I saw or the top or 10 people that exhibit it security culture in the organization.

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James McQuiggan: And start there, because I would have to be able to see. Okay. Do we have anybody doing cyber security or having that awareness in the organization.

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James McQuiggan: And, you know, preventing tailgaters from walking in the front door. You know, those kind of things and reward them and kind of make them go, Oh, I got I got free coffee because you know

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James McQuiggan: For something good that I get, you know, and if that kind of gets word word gets spread around. And it's like, Ooh, there's the carrot instead of the sick, the stick.

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James McQuiggan: They're not coming to kill us. Every time we click a link. It's like, oh, we got we did something right we got rewarded you know that would hopefully, kind of, say, All right, where's our culture and where do we need to go and then

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James McQuiggan: Go back to upper management and go okay, this is what we got to do. And then hopefully get the million dollars.

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G3: Like, you're right. So I like your answer a lot because I really have a strong appreciation for not just security culture but incentive programs around security.

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G3: On top of the fact that we are too often seen as the Department of know we're also too often seen as the Department of sticks and not the Department of carrots. So I really do appreciate that.

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G3: You know, it does remind me, we, we should, because there's there's some cool people out there doing some really cool things in the security sentence world, we should we should probably have some of them in the show. Shout out to to Masha sit over over at

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G3: Over at elvidge security for doing similar things right. Yeah, and no shameless plug. We have absolutely no association through this organization.

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G3: But it does bring me to my follow up question, which is, again, back to that human element. How do you through awareness.

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G3: Offer more carrots. Right.

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James McQuiggan: So a lot of it for me. And this has come from running a chapter, this has come from running as a security awareness program at Siemens

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James McQuiggan: One of the things that I did.

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James McQuiggan: For the is a so the information security advisors. One of the things that I did was

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James McQuiggan: We did an annual event every year. I love going to conferences I love meeting people, you know, learning stuff in, you know, in a room full of people and that kind of stuff. So one of the things that I did running the is a program was we did an annual meeting and we did it Disney

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James McQuiggan: One of the cool things was Siemens was a sponsor Disney of what Disney and the golf ball was our, our main sponsorship and behind the golf ball, there's actually a set of meeting rooms.

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James McQuiggan: And that was available to us to rent that no charge within the organization. So we were able to go do board meetings, we're able to do whatever events at that at that location.

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James McQuiggan: We just had to be there for six hours of the day and order the Disney food and you know that's where the money came in.

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James McQuiggan: But that was kind of the reward, just to the is the same. The is a members.

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James McQuiggan: That, hey look, you know, and the day was spent doing presentations. I had the FBI come in and do a presentation or I didn't get special speakers and that kind of thing.

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James McQuiggan: Because that was kind of the reward for them to say, Okay, look, now you need to go out into your departments and spread the carrot, so to speak. So that was kind of like their reward.

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James McQuiggan: But I'm all about wanting to give back to the people that are doing the work. And so with the ice squared. Chapter One of the things we did last year which was really cool.

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James McQuiggan: We did an annual meeting everybody got a polo shirt with the logo on it. The chapter logo. Everybody got a challenge coin and I have never seen more people hungry, actually.

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James McQuiggan: More people hungry for challenge for

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James McQuiggan: My you know shameless plug. But

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James McQuiggan: But basically had a challenge going for the chapter for our members.

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James McQuiggan: I'm not prepared so I don't have it ready anyway.

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James McQuiggan: But more people were excited to get the coin than anything else, because it was like almost like the $5 or a $10 gift card. It's that sense of

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James McQuiggan: Belonging, you know, you're, you're a member of the chapter. Here's the coin, you know, educate inspire secure

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James McQuiggan: And, you know, and promote that within your organization. And so when they they have that bit. And then they see that every day, then that just kind of adds that reminder to, you know, keep that awareness and keep that culture going

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Cameron Ivey: That's interesting. And no worries about the coin. You can find it.

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If you want to search for x.

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Cameron Ivey: We can we can we can throw it in there. At some point, but so one of my questions for you is, you know, aside from coven because I'm sure everybody's had enough talk about Kobe, but

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Cameron Ivey: What do you think the biggest challenge you have with your, your current role right now. How are you, overcoming it and the biggest challenge, you're dealing with right now.

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James McQuiggan: Well, I think my biggest challenges is not being able to get out and see see people network, you know, part of what my role is is promotion of security awareness.

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James McQuiggan: Of know before you know going out to conferences, giving presentations.

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James McQuiggan: So that's been honestly that's been the unfortunate part but I found other ways right now. One of the things I do a lot of throughout the day is media responses, you know, will you know something data breach happens or there's a vulnerability or leak. And so we get

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James McQuiggan: Were approached to see if we want to provide any comments on that and you know 250 300 word response.

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James McQuiggan: You do a couple of those a day but sometimes you get a couple of the company come across your desk and it takes. Huh. Let me do a little research and so you do a little digging. So that's kind of where the the work has been good in that sense.

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James McQuiggan: And then doing webinars podcasts. I've done, I've done several podcasts is here, which has been fun.

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James McQuiggan: Yeah, you guys are the best so far so

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Thanks.

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G3: To everybody

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James McQuiggan: Doing podcasts as a lot of fun. And, you know, but doing it with people that you know and you know you you get a chance, just to kind of

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James McQuiggan: You know, make it seem like a conversation like you're standing up on stage, having a conversation or you're you're doing hallway call and and having that conversation is just this is being recorded and putting out there.

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James McQuiggan: But I've done webinars. I've still done presentations. It's I'm even teaching online as well through you know through these virtual meetings.

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James McQuiggan: It's not the same that having that in person connection and I do hope this all goes away soon so we can kind of get back to that. But

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James McQuiggan: I'm extremely thankful that the know before is in the position that it is that I'm still able to keep doing this and promote this because

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James McQuiggan: There are a lot of people working from home and they're even bigger targets. Now we've seen in the initial spike when it came out in March of all the coven phishing attacks, it's still pretty rapid, it's not as high as it was originally. It's kind of

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James McQuiggan: Gone down, but there are still 10s of thousands attacks out of the hundred thousand plus that are going on every day.

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James McQuiggan: So it's, it's still prevalent but folks don't need to be vigilant when it comes to you know those covert emails or emails coming in. I know for me and know before we we eat our own dog food. I get fish twice a week.

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James McQuiggan: I and It cracks me up because not good. I've been good so far.

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James McQuiggan: We've had other folks in our organization get, you know, end up clicking on those fishing links and they CEO was one of them.

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James McQuiggan: Were and then you got to go through the training again. So for me it's I get when I go to the training, but it makes me more more vigilant on my email when it comes in, especially my work one so

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James McQuiggan: It comes in. It's like, hey, we're doing a policy change and we do a stand up meeting every day, which I think it's fantastic. It's kind of kept the

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James McQuiggan: The group together the organization together because we have a daily meeting we hear from the CEO.

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James McQuiggan: And that's when they usually let us know if there's new policies or changes coming out. We're going to get an email. So if I get an email that comes in.

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James McQuiggan: About a policy change. I'm like, Yeah, we didn't talk about it at the meeting. So I'm going to call fish on that one. But if you're in an organization where they don't have that.

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James McQuiggan: And you get an email about your policy change or whatever, check with somebody else. Hey, did you get this email. Did you know about this policy change, you know, rather than going, Oh my gosh, I got to open up this PDF and see what's inside here, open up a Word doc and enable macros.

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Cameron Ivey: A just to go back to your knock on wood statement is that a hand carved mahogany over there are weak a rockin

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Cameron Ivey: Cheek cheek.

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James McQuiggan: Teeth desk.

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Okay.

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Cameron Ivey: Yeah okay that passes.

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Cameron Ivey: I'll let that pass

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James McQuiggan: This desk has been in my family, my parents had it before me, I'm 35 oh yeah 35 years and then somebody else said it before, so it's very well worn. It's great. I love it.

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James McQuiggan: It's actually sits in the middle of my office man cave in here so

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James McQuiggan: It's over to my right, or my all my other

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James McQuiggan: My other computers.

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Cameron Ivey: So, yeah.

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Cameron Ivey: Are you and just to give

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Cameron Ivey: Paint everybody a picture in your office that isn't on video.

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Cameron Ivey: He's got a wall of

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Cameron Ivey: Doctor Who. So you're I think you're pretty big fan is that

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Sorry, yeah.

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James McQuiggan: I was watching Doctor Who before doctor who was cool.

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James McQuiggan: You know, add a big surgeons in 2010 11 with with Matt Smith. That was the doctor but I was watching. It's in the 70s when I was 7890 but I was well yeah I mean, and it's when it came back in 2006

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James McQuiggan: My wife and my daughter started watching it and it became a family thing. So every Saturday night when it was on we'd sit and watch it.

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James McQuiggan: And though we ended up going to Doctor Who conferences and other you know Comic Con type things and meeting the actors and so a lot of what's behind me is artwork from local artists as well as posters from magazines and stuff like that that I collected and and

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James McQuiggan: Pictures with the actors autographs, so yeah.

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Cameron Ivey: Awesome. That's really neat. So before I jump into our last segment, have some fun questions. Do you have anything that you want to add that we didn't talk about, I always like to bring this up just. Is there anything that you want to throw out there for anyone in security.

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Cameron Ivey: Or that you just want to talk about that we didn't touch on

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James McQuiggan: Good question.

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James McQuiggan: I think we've covered a lot. I mean, yeah, when we look at, you know, the, the Department of know to try and be

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James McQuiggan: You know, more accepting try to work with your organization. You know, when it comes to human nature, you know, you're going to have people like I said, you're gonna have people that are going to know, but don't care, you know. So how do you get them to care a lot. Sometimes that involves nudging

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James McQuiggan: There's a in the presentations that I do. And I've got to give it to give the the source to Perry Carpenter, who's our chief security evangelist.

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James McQuiggan: Who did a lot of psychology analysis on this and I steal it with pride. His slide that has a picture of a urinal from Germany, and it's got a little fly on it.

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James McQuiggan: And what it was is it was a story about a German janitor who every night would would be going into the bathrooms to clean around the urinal stalls and the amount of splash.

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James McQuiggan: On the floor was a little excessive. So we decided to paint a little fly in each of the urinals. And lo and behold the splash around the urinals was reduced basically giving people giving them a target you know for going the bathroom.

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James McQuiggan: Yeah.

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James McQuiggan: All these nudges you know and if you can find that knowledge for your organization. You know, you think about when you're having to come up with a password and we all love doing that.

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James McQuiggan: But you're coming up with a password and you've got that little bar that's red and then as the more character you type and you put in the uppercase and lowercase and the numbers and the symbol, it turns green and you're like,

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James McQuiggan: Yeah, I got a strong bathroom. Okay, you know, I'm being a little you know exaggerating with

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James McQuiggan: Relationship with the expression of what you really get your life. Thank God. That one got taken, but you know if you can find that knowledge. Yeah, it gets them in the security mindset gives them that motivation.

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James McQuiggan: To to, you know, secure or follow the security practices.

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James McQuiggan: But that's kind of that next step when you yeah you got a security program, you get the money you got the funding you implement it, you start fishing, but okay. Now, how do you get the culture bumped up and that's kind of that knowledge is kind of there for

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Cameron Ivey: Well, that

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Cameron Ivey: That's interesting. In the urinal thing that's, that's great.

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James McQuiggan: I love that story. So I've been to Germany, and I've seen them. And I've seen the flies that are on there and I'm like, oh, look I fly.

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G3: I love that because I because I understand why the need to paint it was there and I'm deeply troubled by the by the fact that it's a thing. Yes.

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James McQuiggan: When you're when you're training a little boys to go the bathroom, you throw in Cheerios.

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Cameron Ivey: So,

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James McQuiggan: I wouldn't know.

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Cameron Ivey: A more serious question for you. If you could end coronavirus by sacrificing one genre of music, what would it be and why country music.

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James McQuiggan: I saw that the other day.

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Cameron Ivey: Yes, I had asked you that

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James McQuiggan: Oh my god.

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James McQuiggan: You know, it's funny, I

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James McQuiggan: When I moved down when I moved to Florida.

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James McQuiggan: I ended up living in Texas for three years. When I met my wife, and we got and I moved over there to get married. And when I moved out to Texas.

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James McQuiggan: I got into Garth Brooks and I got into

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James McQuiggan: Listening to him for a few years and then I came back and a friend of mine introduced me to Brad Paisley before Brad Paisley was cool and

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James McQuiggan: You know, I got it. I had my country music phase, you know, being in Texas. I had the belt buckle. I had the boots. I never got the hat.

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James McQuiggan: But ya know if I could get rid of one genre of music. I love it. Be country music. You would probably want to see. I've never been a big fan. And I'm going to get shot for this, but I've never been a big fan of rap music, but I've come to appreciate it over the years.

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James McQuiggan: It's fair, the message and the things that I just never understood it. I think that was just my problem.

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G3: Is only one right answer to this question dubstep.

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dub sounds

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G3: I think it's, I think that's already dying off anyways.

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G3: Unless of course there's a country dubstep, in which case

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Cameron Ivey: There's the right answer.

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James McQuiggan: Yeah, right. Yeah.

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Cameron Ivey: I grew up on. I grew up an old school country. So, you know, I can kind of relate

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G3: Oh, school yeah 20 or Johnny Cash. What are we talking about here.

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Cameron Ivey: Man, I'm probably some artists that you guys have never even heard of, to be honest, for the

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And

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Cameron Ivey: I don't remember the name, so I'm not even gonna try to throw it out there.

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James McQuiggan: P for me growing up. It was the Beatles. It was elton john because my parents.

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Cameron Ivey: Yeah.

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James McQuiggan: My parents were Liverpool. So yeah, it was that's what a lot of what I grew up on and

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Cameron Ivey: Those are good ones. What, what's your spirit animal

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James McQuiggan: spirit animal

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James McQuiggan: Well, it was a dragon fly on on the Harry Potter world, the other day.

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James McQuiggan: But

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James McQuiggan: My spirit animal. Good question, never really thought about that. And it was funny because a couple years ago I went on a couple job interviews and I actually, I got prepare or I was looking at interview questions. And that was one of them. I'm like why am somebody

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James McQuiggan: Would we want to ask that question, is it just to kind of think about how quickly people can think on their feet and come up with a response for which

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Cameron Ivey: Maybe

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James McQuiggan: You know, it might be that

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Cameron Ivey: Um it to see how they think of themselves, maybe, or I don't know.

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James McQuiggan: It's kind of, it's interesting question, but I think a spirit animal

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Cameron Ivey: Either that or what's your favorite animal

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James McQuiggan: Favorite animal probably

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James McQuiggan: Either a lion or a Jaguar.

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James McQuiggan: The lion, for several reasons, from the fact that I've always enjoyed the movie The Lion King. I love the music in the Lion King.

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James McQuiggan: Not, not the not the elton john music, but the African tribal music

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Cameron Ivey: Okay, yeah.

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James McQuiggan: I don't know what it was, but it was just

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Cameron Ivey: Uplifting

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James McQuiggan: It was extremely, extremely coral. It was just like at you're pumped, you know,

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James McQuiggan: And I always enjoyed that. But the jaguar was because when I got married. One of the things that I was responsible for was the limousine from to take us from the church to the reception.

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James McQuiggan: And when I saw what the cost of it was. I'm like, You gotta be kidding me. This under 350 for 20 minute ride. And I'm like, let's see if I can rent a car. So I rented a Jaguar.

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James McQuiggan: And had it for for four or five days and loved riding the Jaguar and of course that set off a whole thing of studying about jaguars the animal, the car and everything.

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James McQuiggan: That was probably

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Cameron Ivey: That was my mom's dream car.

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Cameron Ivey: And I know at the time. Yeah, I know that they've come they've made more affordable models. Nowadays, which is pretty neat, but

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James McQuiggan: I always think, Hey, I'm

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James McQuiggan: Driving that Jaguar around that week was the second best thing that happened that week.

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James McQuiggan: You know, besides getting married.

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Yeah.

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James McQuiggan: And as much as I would tell my wife.

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Cameron Ivey: James. She's not around.

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G3: Long as

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James McQuiggan: Well, the funny thing. The funny thing was we joke. She would tell me for years that if I ever bought a Jaguar it better come with a shower.

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James McQuiggan: That's where I'd be living my garden. So my goal one days is hopefully all in one. But, you know, I'm

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Cameron Ivey: A big car or being small shower.

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Cameron Ivey: Yeah.

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Cameron Ivey: I'm not even gonna ask you this because I already know it. What's your favorite TV show, obviously, Doctor Who, I would imagine.

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James McQuiggan: Doctor Who is a big favorite um you know I love watching friends, especially now that it's on back on a

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Cameron Ivey: Ustream classic

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James McQuiggan: You know, How I Met Your Mother. The comedies, I love, I love TV shows that entertain me but then also challenged the intellect.

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James McQuiggan: Yeah, Sherlock that they had on BBC was brilliant.

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Cameron Ivey: I was so good.

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Cameron Ivey: But they had two brilliant actors too. So

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James McQuiggan: Oh yeah, oh yeah, I started watching. I watched the first episode of Perry Mason, the new one that was kind of interesting.

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G3: There's a new very basic. Wow. Yeah.

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James McQuiggan: But it's completely different. He's a detective in the 30s. It's bizarre.

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Cameron Ivey: But is that there's a

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Cameron Ivey: Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

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James McQuiggan: I was gonna say the one show that is the family favorite though would be jeopardy.

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Cameron Ivey: It's our oh yeah

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James McQuiggan: The One Show we watch every night, but

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Cameron Ivey: I can't watch it with my wife.

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Cameron Ivey: Gets every answer right.

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James McQuiggan: Well that's it's funny you should say your wife, because with my wife, she gets all the answers because she's been on the show.

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Cameron Ivey: Oh, that's awesome.

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James McQuiggan: Yeah, it was about eight years ago, she did it.

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Cameron Ivey: That's really cool.

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James McQuiggan: There and we did a whole family vacation around it.

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Cameron Ivey: Jeopardy shameless plug.

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Yeah.

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G3: Pro Tip. Everyone should have a default answer my default jeopardy answer is Ben Hur I don't know the answer. Go and better every time.

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James McQuiggan: And her 42

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G3: Yes, also.

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Cameron Ivey: I think the correct term is what has been her

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G3: What is better, who

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Cameron Ivey: Has been her

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Cameron Ivey: iPhone or Android

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James McQuiggan: Oh hello iPhone. Okay.

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Cameron Ivey: Thank you. Thank you. We don't even go into that.

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Cameron Ivey: If. If your house was on fire. What two things would you run back and get

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Cameron Ivey: I'm throwing them out. Yeah.

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James McQuiggan: If I had time and I knew the family was safe. It would be the wedding album in my hard drives my backup partners.

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James McQuiggan: You go together, we know

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Cameron Ivey: Why

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Cameron Ivey: Why, oh, save yourself.

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G3: We know James does not trust the cloud to backup the data.

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James McQuiggan: Know I have, I have the Cloud, but it can no longer take to download four terabytes of data or 12 or

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James McQuiggan: 12 terabytes. It's all my photography pictures.

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James McQuiggan: What was the previous question you had

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Cameron Ivey: About the iPhone, Android

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James McQuiggan: So funny story. When I worked at my last job, there was one of the security guys who is diehard Android, and I was diehard iPhone and every time a vulnerability come out, he'd send me an email every time there was an

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James McQuiggan: Android phone, the ability to send me an email.

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James McQuiggan: BEST THING EVER. WE HAD THE FBI one of our one of these conferences and I turned to the FBI agents for them. I said, Alright guys, which one's better Android or iPhone and they all looked at me, they looked over my part. My buddy and they look back at me and went iPhone and I

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Guess.

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G3: I'll tell you, I got blue snark that

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G3: at DEF CON couple years ago and

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G3: Now I've gone back to iPhone. For that reason, like my inner geek loves the Android

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G3: Yes, but

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G3: By laying the security side like I can't do it. I just can't do it. No offense. I mean,

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James McQuiggan: Yeah, yeah. And the, the Android, they're both great phones, they do what you need to do. There are some people that when I look at it, it's Coke or Pepsi, you know, VHS Betamax

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Um,

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James McQuiggan: You know,

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James McQuiggan: Did Kevin or not, you know,

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James McQuiggan: So,

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Cameron Ivey: Isn't the iPhone coming out with androids old idea 10 years ago about the live tiles.

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James McQuiggan: Yes, yeah.

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Cameron Ivey: Yeah, about time. Yeah.

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James McQuiggan: I'm for me I'm like yeah i mean i i sit there and go, what are they gonna cut, you know, how can they come up with new ideas every year. And then I like, Oh, that's right. They just look at what Android did and

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Cameron Ivey: Then

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James McQuiggan: And then they

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Cameron Ivey: Yeah, they got so many years to just add one each year.

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James McQuiggan: Yeah, I, I'm still waiting for the the capability of double tapping seeing all the apps and hitting one button and closing them all at once. They still don't have that in there.

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James McQuiggan: So you got to close on one of the time it's a

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Cameron Ivey: Hey, a guy can dream.

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G3: And I heard the next version of the iPhone is actually going to lie to make phone calls. Now,

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Cameron Ivey: That's the thing. So

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I just

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Cameron Ivey: Feel

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Cameron Ivey: I feel

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Cameron Ivey: I feel like the only thing I get every day now is scam likely that's about everything like

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James McQuiggan: Am like a good friend of mine, Chris gave me this sticker. So I have that on the on the back on my wife's got 100 kids on her phone to everybody gets a kick out of it, especially when we're taking pictures. They're like,

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Cameron Ivey: Well James has been awesome. We really appreciate you coming on.

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G3: Really appreciate it.

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Cameron Ivey: Yeah. So, is there anywhere that you have people follow you are on social media. Do you like that kind of thing.

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James McQuiggan: Yeah, I'm, I'm on Twitter at at James underscore mcquillan i'm sure that'll probably show up in the show notes or I'm on LinkedIn as well.

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James McQuiggan: As James maclagan there are two. There are several of us in the world. One of them is my cousin, but he's based in Scotland, so

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Cameron Ivey: Oh, nice. You have is a Scottish

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James McQuiggan: Yeah yeah

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Cameron Ivey: Man, I might need to talk to him, I love, I love the Scottish accent.

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Cameron Ivey: Oh, we're gonna try one right now but

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If

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G3: You have a speaking of Scottish I got from the Highlands right here and

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G3: You also have a

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G3: Live right now from info sec world so folks should go check that out now.

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James McQuiggan: It's on demand. Yeah.

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James McQuiggan: Your Cloud talk is good, man.

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G3: I appreciate it.

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James McQuiggan: I had a plan, while I was working

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James McQuiggan: I was kind of the cool thing with the virtual I could actually be working on stuff and look up and listen and

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G3: No. Yeah, it was good. I appreciate it. I gotta tell you guys pivoted really really quickly. And that one is better than better than I could have imagined. So it was really awesome, awesome work by the info sec world stuff.

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James McQuiggan: All number and all that God. They all did a fantastic job with it, but

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James McQuiggan: Let's get in real life next year.

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G3: Yes, yeah.

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Cameron Ivey: Awesome.

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G3: Well, thanks so much for coming on James I really appreciate it. We need and want to have you back.

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James McQuiggan: Absolutely. Thank you. Definitely.

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Cameron Ivey: Thanks James. Cool.