Privacy Please
Tune into "Privacy Please," where hosts Cam and Gabe engage with privacy and security professionals around the planet. They bring expert insights to the table and break down complicated tech stuff everyone can understand.
Privacy Please
S5, E207 - Delving into the American Privacy Rights Act Unfiltered
Hold onto your hats because we're cracking open the American Privacy Rights Act – a piece of legislation that's causing quite the stir. Will it be the superhero the privacy community has been waiting for, or is it a wolf in sheep's clothing? We dissect the nitty-gritty from data minimization to opt-out rights and ponder the act's potential global ripple effects on data protection.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Privacy, Please. I am your host, Gabe Gumbs, and with me my homie, my man, my ace, Cameron Ivey.
Speaker 2:Yes, gabe, with the intro, I love it. Oh, this is um. We always seem to have some kind of like a freeze glitch in the beginning which cracks me up. But whatever, we're good now how are you?
Speaker 1:I'm well, I'm well, I was, I was, I was introducing you as, as you heard, and uh, and so I was gonna ask you how are you? I'm good? Yeah, there's a little travel wary.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm getting back to normal now. I think, yeah, yeah, where you've been, where you've been, what have you been up to? Ah, I went to uh, went to dc, met some folks, saw some people in person for the first time. That was wild, I mean any shout outs.
Speaker 1:Any shout outs, would you say yes, dish, dish um.
Speaker 2:So I saw um jeff. Jeff was at the after party. Hey, Jeff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, shout out to.
Speaker 2:Jeff Heidi Sass was there as well.
Speaker 1:She had a little tiny top hat on. I know and I miss seeing Heidi in person. Hello, Heidi.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she is. She is something else. Obviously, we had her on the podcast and she's just a character in herself, just great, great person all around. That's awesome. I actually saw Kay, but I didn't get a chance to talk to her because I saw her on the other side of the room when the drag show was happening and she was dressed up like she had a full attire on for the Wonderland?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was fabulous.
Speaker 2:I did not get to see. I didn't get to see her, but I'm so disappointed.
Speaker 1:I didn't get to to to the c for the show for specifically that reason. Like I saw the pictures online, I was like I am so jealous right now. I hope cam's having a great time up there.
Speaker 2:I'm so oh yeah, it was fun a lot, a lot of good outfits too, and just a lot of just people, just good stuff. What color?
Speaker 1:was your tutu? What color was your tutu?
Speaker 2:I didn't have one on, but if I were to, you know what? If I go next year, I'll dress up as Jim Carrey from Ace Ventura when he's wearing the tutu.
Speaker 1:There it is.
Speaker 2:And the button-up shirt that would be perfect, that's perfect.
Speaker 1:Or I would rock that and the button-up shirt that would be perfect, that's perfect. Or I would rock that. Jim carrey 1995. Varicosa from in living color it's going to require you exposing a little bit more of you.
Speaker 2:You may require some privacy are you talking about veer de milo?
Speaker 1:no, you, oh man, the youngins you don't even know. Okay, all right, I going to put you up on this one.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, you got to send that to me, but I know a lot of his skits from In Living Color. The Vera DeMilo one is the one where he's like oh it is Vera DeMilo, you're right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, she also goes by Veracosa. Oh, that's so good, you are correct, you are familiar with the Jim character. That's the one you have to go, as that's the one you have to go as I'm going to have to.
Speaker 2:That's a good point. I mean, he's got like the little pigtails and he's got the pigtails.
Speaker 1:He's got the coconut.
Speaker 2:The speedo.
Speaker 1:With the pants on Right.
Speaker 2:With the sports bra or whatever. That's the one. Oh, it's no sport, actually not a bad idea, it's the best idea I've had all day for what it's worth. Well, now you can call it a day. Yeah, everything else there was great.
Speaker 2:Um, running into a lot of awesome people, people that listen to the podcast um, that was really neat, you know, getting to be around privacy nerds. Um, it was. It was a real, real good time. A lot of good stuff. Obviously, the talk was about AI. I think Kashmir Hill was there. Joy Bala I forget how to pronounce her last name, bala Mwe, I'm not even going to try to mess it up again. A lot of good people, a lot of good speakers Just good stuff. Got to meet Trevor Hughes. He's the CEO of IAPP Nice guy, speakers, just good stuff. Uh, got to meet uh trevor hughes he's the ceo of iapp nice guy, lots of good stuff, good shout outs. Um, I also met with uh mary um over at data grail, so a lot of good. Uh finally got to meet her in person. Everybody just did a lot of good stuff going on in privacy. So, um, yeah, but the biggest, the biggest news obviously, is this past weekend was the bipartisan or the data of the American Privacy Rights Act.
Speaker 1:So that that's let's talk, let's talk about it, let's talk about it, let's put it, let's put it in the hot seat. And this week, this week. So it's a little later in the week already by the time we release this, so, but we're still going to do a reaction Monday or, in this case, just a reaction Reaction Friday whatever. Reaction Friday. It doesn't freaking matter. What I'm looking for, though, is I'd like to get your reaction to the passing of this bill over the weekend.
Speaker 2:There's two sides to it. First of all, it was kind of like at first I didn't realize it was just a write-up. So it was kind of exciting because it seemed like there was a lot of excitement in the air right. And then you got both sides of everything.
Speaker 2:People are kind of shrugging at the fact that you know this is there hasn't been but what 47 laws passed in this year. They feel like Congress has kind of called quits on mostly everything and that this isn't going to be anything serious. It's just going to be another fraction and it's going to go away and they're going to have issues that just kind of push it further out and like it always does. I think they had that what was it? Adpa back in 22. I want to kind of challenge those people that are a little bit more. It seems like they're a little sour towards, obviously, the way congress does things, which I I can understand, but I mean, this is exciting but but follow me, or allow me to follow you in this one yeah so there are folks that already have formulated some opinions on this.
Speaker 1:And what are some of those opinions? Specifically Because you're kind of highlighting some of them and I want to call out some of those opinions. And they are those. They're opinions and we're not knocking opinions on the show, right? We're here for everyone's opinion. Don't at me. You know the rules, you know the rules.
Speaker 2:You know the rules, if this is your first, time.
Speaker 1:don't at me, Do not.
Speaker 2:I know none of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But what are some of those opinions out there? I mean, some that I'm seeing are just that. You know, this is not something to get Basically shooting down. People that are, you know, organizations and people in the industry that are excited about something like this, which is fair because it is early on in the process. It's a discussion about the draft. They're having one on the 17th. It's going to be the first session about the draft, but I think people are just so. They just want to kind of like negativity is going to stand out more than positivity. So you know why not always have that mindset of trying to bring something down.
Speaker 2:I think, looking at it in a positive way, like this came out of nowhere number one I don't remember what when ADPA came out in 22. I don't know if it was like out of nowhere, but I think there's some kind of agenda that's being pushed to try to get this passed or something like we had. There's a realistic chance. This was never in sight. Nobody knew this was going to happen. So something's trying to be pushed by someone and you know there could be um, some in office that are going to be ending their term this year. You know, trying to make a change before they head out, some kind of big, you know parting gift basically for for uh, america, I guess. But this is this?
Speaker 1:is that this? Is that three o'clock on friday? Oh shit, I better get some work done before the weekend, is that? Is that what this is?
Speaker 2:maybe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is the congressional version of fuck mom's about to come home. I better tidy this place up. No-transcript.
Speaker 2:Right and it's nice to see that there's actually a push or at least a discussion, a serious discussion, about an actual US privacy law. Yes, there could be complications when it comes to the California Consumer Privacy Act because people are not just that one. I'm just calling it out because it's very well known in the US, so it could make complications for state laws that are already in place. So those are the preemptions, those are the worries that other people have, which is totally understandable.
Speaker 1:I mean that seems slightly unfounded. Our entire union is predicated on the fact that states have their own rights.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:I don't want to go into that conversation, but I have a confession.
Speaker 2:Confess yourself Indeed rights right to go into that conversation right, but I have a confession I, I, I did indeed it is. You came to the right place.
Speaker 1:It is nine nine thousand and nine thousand nine hundred and ninety nine days since my last well, go ahead.
Speaker 2:Do you have to place your hand on the right hand, on the bible?
Speaker 1:I don't really know how the whole thing works yeah, okay, anyways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we do have a privacy. We need to get a privacy bible.
Speaker 1:I don't know what they make you do in that booth. It's a booth you go in. I don't. I'm not really sure, but there's definitely privacy in there, I presume. I presume here's my. Here's my confession I'm in the apathy corner.
Speaker 1:Um, I don't know, I don't know that, I don't know how strong they am in the apathy corner, but like, I get the sentiment of like right, like right. I agree with you wholeheartedly that a discussion is a good place to start and it's better than no discussion, right? But the privacy discussion began in like 95 when we signed hibba into law, right, arguably, it began well before that, obviously, and and so, like, I'm 100% on your side with this. But allow me to be the voice on this show that says don't want Cameron. So what's your response?
Speaker 2:Why do I care? Okay, and you were around a lot longer, so you were around when all of that was happening.
Speaker 1:Hey, now hey now, hey now. I'm not saying. You know what I'm saying. I was, though. This is true. I was.
Speaker 2:So in your time, have you ever seen anything like this? Nope, so that's what I'm saying. That's a good point. This is progress. That's the view that I'm saying. This is a great point. This view that I'm saying this is a great point.
Speaker 1:This is progress. It is progress and it also could just be fluff, but but it's stirring the conversation and we, we, we at bare minimum, can't not talk about it, right, that's fair, I mean it's like.
Speaker 2:It's like saying oh well, I um, I talked to this, this woman or man the other day and they seemed interested in me and uh, they said, maybe we can go on a date, let's talk about it. You're gonna just be like, nah, you're just gonna like, not try, you know what I mean or be excited about it. I don't know, that's a terrible analogy, but um it is. It is for introverts we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna cut that out?
Speaker 1:No, we're not Again. If you're new here, that's not getting cut out of you. You're going to hear all of that.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I think, just like the bill itself or the draft itself, there's two sides of the coin that are, I think, respectable to be open to, in terms of it's a double-edged sword with, if it's a bill that passes, it's a double-edged sword for bills that are already in place for single states, and also, um, the other way around. But, like for for I lost track of what I was trying to say the ones that don't have any bills in place yeah, I mean, I think like you were not many left, yeah gdpr and and the eu like that's.
Speaker 2:That's that's where my apathy stems from yeah, we want to get to that point. Yeah, it's like come on.
Speaker 1:Guys already like like seriously, like we, we already were standing around watching the rest of our our you know, peers on the nation level anyway make far more progress on this than we are. So much so that they look at us and they're like well, we need to be careful with our data around you, guys because you guys don't really talk much about how you protect things.
Speaker 1:There's no real rules around how you guys protect things. So you know we don't really trust you. And, by the way, the three largest hyperscale cloud providers all happen to be US organizations, right? So Google, aws, microsoft and so like. That's where a significant number of all amount, I should say, of all of the world's data is at this point, right Like a healthy number of it, a healthy amount of it.
Speaker 1:I keep doing that. A healthy number of it, a healthy amount of it, I keep doing that. A healthy amount of it exists in that area and the world doesn't trust that. You know, there there are no. There are no governing rules to how we do things I and I privacy right.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of this out of nowhere push is definitely probably behind artificial intelligence. I think those people it's scary. It's because they probably are hiding things too and they want to try to protect those things as well. That's another thing that I thought of and that might be shots fired right there.
Speaker 1:I mean they have a lot to hide. That's of course, it's true. I mean she wouldn't, but wouldn't it, but wouldn't it behoove them to pass strict their privacy laws, because then they could hide?
Speaker 2:that's what I'm saying is that they don't. They don't want us to be able to have that inherent privacy well, maybe they're looking at this p did Diddy thing and they're going. Maybe we need to push this privacy law so we can protect ourselves.
Speaker 1:That shit has not been a secret for the better part of 20 years.
Speaker 2:No amount of privacy laws was going to keep that secret, and why is it now coming out right?
Speaker 1:You got to ask the people that make cash off of that one. I'm on the follow the money team with this one. I'm on the follow the money team. I'm on the follow the money team with this one. I'm on the follow the money team. We've seen similar nonsense in the entertainment industry. Forever right, like a lot of quote, open secrets, a lot of open secrets. In the privacy world, there are to be no open secrets, there are only to be secret secrets. Ooh, secret secrets, secret secret. I got a secret Secret secret. Who sings that Domo?
Speaker 2:arigato, I got a secret Secret secret.
Speaker 1:Who sings that Domo Arigato, Mr Roboto.
Speaker 2:Ah, yes, yes, yes, I was testing you, you have passed.
Speaker 1:Young warrior. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. What's the name of the song, Mr Roboto?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The group that sings it is Styx S-T-Y-X. The song is Mr Roboto.
Speaker 2:I'm familiar with that. Yeah, Well, let me ask you this, because without knowing too much about it yourself. So you seem to be on. You can kind of, I'm on team apathy.
Speaker 1:Am I even ashamed to say that out loud? I don't know I should be. I should be because I'm an advocate and I'm supposed to be an ally and a fighter for it. So I am. But, maybe my apathy takes away from that.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you what the provisions of this act is, what they're trying to go for. So it's around data minimization, opt out, rights for targeted advertising and data access. So it's it's definitely like data security provisions and national data broker registry and also prohibition of man uh, mandatory, uh, arbitrations, arbitrations, arbitrations, sorry, not arbitrations.
Speaker 1:No, it's all good, I'm following. No, it's all good, I'm following. Look, I like some of these things. I like a lot of these things. Mandatory arbitration, seems I could argue that both ways. The data broker registry yeah, I mean, there's part of me that really questions the legitimacy of data brokers as an industry. Like I get it, but I don't know if. Yeah, no, I like it. Look, I, I like it all. It's. It's the place to start.
Speaker 2:It's the place to start of course, it's nice to see that there's an effort for it, and the fact that it came out of nowhere leaves a lot of questions why, why now?
Speaker 1:dropping on a weekend. Slowing, yeah, dropping on a weekend. What is this a?
Speaker 2:what are you? A freaking movie coming out, just coming out of nowhere, on a weekend surprise release. It is fascinating, though, and it sparked. It sparked a lot of discussions, so it's going to be interesting to keep our eye on and for those listening, uh doing a live stream. Yeah, doing doing a live stream next Thursday. Um, to recap this first discussion draft that they're going to have on the 17th.
Speaker 1:So drop, drop that link in the chat drop that link in in in the post, in the post.
Speaker 2:I'll drop. I'll drop it in the post, but In the post I'll drop it in the post. Anyways, it's super. I mean it's nice to see that there's movement. I don't know, I mean I haven't seen anything like this since I've been. You are correct. Nor have I.
Speaker 1:And so I applaud that. I do, I do applaud that I will take off my team apathy jersey and I will put on my team. I support this jersey.
Speaker 2:The rah-rah jersey. I'm, I'm here, it's okay. It's okay to have both. So if you need to like, flip it inside out to switch when you know apathy is not going to get us anywhere.
Speaker 1:That like we got to stay strong, we got to stay strong in the fight you got to, yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:I think the message here should be all of us in the privacy community should be pushing to put more pressure on Congress to make this happen there it is. Don't let this become another ship in the wind or flag in the wind, or whatever the heck that saying is.
Speaker 1:This is not the time for us all to start not caring or having that level of apathy, for this is not the time. Agreed, I'm changing my jersey. You've changed my mind, sir. Not caring or having that level of apathy for like this, this is not the time. So, agreed, I'm changing my Jersey. You've changed. You've changed my mind, sir, changed my mind. I'm on, I'm on, I'm on team. Let's get this shit going.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I like it.
Speaker 2:Well, if anybody has questions or whatever, just shoot them. Shoot them to us. Happy to to dig in a little bit more and if you have more on this, I'd love to hear from you too, if you got criticism, go ahead and hold them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, throw it at us. Wait what?
Speaker 2:all right, fine, we're not, we're not afraid of it. Are we gonna see it and hear it? Maybe not, I don't know we respond.
Speaker 1:Depends on how petty I'm feeling that day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it depends on if the what is it Soothsayer there? It is Salty Soothsayer, yeah.
Speaker 1:Sometimes he comes out. I like the Salty Soothsayer.
Speaker 2:He's all right.
Speaker 1:Well, folks, this has been another episode of Privacy. Please, with yours truly, cameron Ivery and Gabe Guffs, I hope you turn back in, tune back in. If it's your first time here, welcome. If it's not, welcome back. Don't forget to hit the like button, tell your friends, share, and we'll see you here next week. Thanks, gabe, we'll see you, man.
