Chap67: Dancing Shoes with Chris Clawson! [adventure] Artwork

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The Writers Block

Chap67: Dancing Shoes with Chris Clawson! [adventure]

April 25, 2024 • 8Sparks Media • Season 6 • Episode 67

Publisher, author and dancer, Christopher Clawson joins us for a conversation and story in this week's episode of The Writers Block Podcast!

At around 32:54, we jump into the story of a family vacation thwarted, and a boy that just wants to dance.

Stick around after the story for a bonus convo!

Check out all of Chris's work @
https://www.christophereclawson.com/#/
https://www.amazon.com/stores/Christo...
/ c3christopherclawsoncompany

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This episode is brought to you by nerdcore. A store in the Auburn Mall located in Auburn, Maine. The place for all your nerdy needs. You can find Clarence and I's books there, as well as a plethora of other local writers, artists, 3D printed D&D tiles, taxidermy, you name it. They even have board games and tarot card readings, in addition to regularly hosting local creators. And as if that weren't enough, I like to dig through their used vinyl collection, which are organized into multiple genres. I usually go for classical or jazz and are all reasonably priced and tested beforehand. So yeah, check out the nerdcore store today at the Auburn, Maine Mall. And now for our feature presentation. 1.5s Once upon a time. 2s There was a podcast. 1.1s But from my. It is the coolest podcast. 4.2s He called it the. 5.6s It was a podcast. 3s Some might say. 2.8s Time. 1.7s Spark. 1.8s Welcome to the writer's block, Chris. Thank you.

Today we have. Thank you so much. Today we have

Christopher Clawson, um, on the writer's block. Chris, where are you from?

Oh, almost closed it for no reason. Uh,

right now I'm in Florida. Uh, Saint Petersburg, Florida. Oh, it

must be nice. 1.7s

Well, see the red face? Yes. Nice.

Uh, we just had a huge nor'easter, so everything is just starting to melt

again now. It's going to be about 89 here today. Oh. You

don't. You can stop talking. 1.9s Uh, so Chris and I know Chris is a fellow author, and, uh, I know him because my story Hall of Justice was featured in, um, when you were doing, uh, Breaking Rules publishing. There was the first degree anthology, and that was my first a major, uh, publication. I had some littler ones in the past, but that was sort of the first one for me. Um, and now you're doing a magazine's, a quarterly magazine, a multiple different kinds of magazines, right?

That is correct. Um, so backing up a little bit, the publishing, the publishing company is still kind of there, but I'm not actually being very, um, proactive about it, meaning that I'm not publishing anymore. Only the people who've who've been published are on the website. And that's more of an advertising thing in a place, a place for them to sell their books than it is for me to actually publish anymore. I just and I'm tired of that. So I, I done the new project is just the magazines, and I decided that I wanted to make them for different ones throughout the year and make them quarterly, and they would be about things that I am interested in. So that's

what I'm doing. So what are the different

themes? So the one of the first one is called Front Row and it's all about um, things that you would actually be in the front row for. So movies, theater, um, television and then fashion, which is really kind of interesting. And then the next one is called excuse me leap and that's I'll dance. Anything that has to do with dance, dance companies, dancers, dance competitions, that kind of thing. Cool. Because I used to dance when I was younger. That's where you're going. And then the next one is called uh, someday. And someday is Sunday. Your your artwork will be on my wall. Or someday I'll be reading your book, or someday I'll listen to your music. So anything that's going to, anything that has to do with the arts because, um. It's based on people who actually need to have their work lifted, as opposed to people who are already there. So that's the concept there. And then the next one is, um, 101 Christopher Street. Years ago, there was an LGBT magazine called Christopher Street because Christopher Street is a big, huge, um, gay street in New York City. And it closed down years and years ago, like probably 20 years ago. And I wanted to come up with something that kind of brought that whole theme back into, and it's my name. So it kind of helps that out a lot too. So that's where I'm going. Cool. Um, so that that street would have been big in the 90s then it was 20 years ago, right? This was the 90s. What year is it? 24. Well, like 30 years ago, it is still now and then. It was big in the 70s and the 80s from pretty much that's where Stonewall happened. And it's just still a very gay Mecca. So

is that anywhere near. Um, I just watched a documentary about, I think studio 54. Was it

studio 54 is actually on 54th Street. Okay. Way up past Times Square. And, um, Christopher Street is down in the village, uh, Greenwich Village. So a little bit further down.

All right. 1.2s Um, and. Yes. So Clarence and I, a couple of weeks ago, you interviewed us for the Sunday magazine. 1.2s

Yes,

and we had a great conversation. We're excited to be featured in that. You interviewed me as an author, Clarence as an author, me as a musician, and both of us as the writer's block. Mhm. Correct.

Yeah. Was it an interesting conversation?

Um, yeah. All right. So let's just jump into some generic questions then. Uh, before I, I assume you have your words prepared. You're going to tell a story with us today. I

can tell the story if you want me to. Awesome.

Yes. Uh, but first what? So you've written. I think I counted 12 books to this day.

Well, um. Nine. There's been nine books, and then there's four short stories. Oh, okay. Um, of my own ever been? You know, when we were doing Breaking Loads publishing, I would put a story in one of the magazines that we had, or put a story in one of the anthologies that we had. Yeah, but that's not mine. I published nine books on their own and then for short stories on their own. But you really kind of, you know, that kind of in 20 pages, like a novella. 1.2s

So what, uh, what genre would you say that you're writing?

Typically it's they categorize it as, um, romance, suspense. I just don't happen to find it to be really very romantic or really very suspenseful. I think of it more as the, um, the human experience or the everyday life, the things that people don't tell anybody else about. I like to write about those things.

Secrets? Yeah, a

really good a really good explanation is, um, my second book is called The Trade, and it starts with the World Trade Center falling down. And it's not about that at all. It's actually about the trade off that you have in life. So something happens. You get a flat tire on your way to a job interview, and you lose the job. And by losing the job, then that, then you lose your house because you don't have a job, or you have a family of five and one of your spouses dies down, you're a family of four and you have a business of your own. Now you have to try and figure out how you're going to run your business and raise your kids without that extra person around things like that, that people have to struggle through, that no one actually thinks about. They just think that once something happens, you just go on and you find your way and they don't think about all the struggles that you have to go through to actually make life work all

over again. So real world, uh, relatable problems. So I guess technically I would say that that's in the just straight up literary genre.

I would agree with that. Yeah.

Um, and because we were also talking about how I always do twists in my stories because I tend to write science fiction and horror. Um, but you are talking also about how you kind of end up ended up doing a twist in, um, I think it was De la Croix. I did, yeah. So the book was going along really. And you know what? I think you'll probably relate to this when you're a writer, you're kind of like, yeah, like the story, the stories could kind of go along, but but even when you get into like age 200, you're like, okay, this book's got to change because now I'm getting kind of, um, the flow is is not moving up or down. It's all being consistent. So this particular one, I just decided to throw a wrench in the whole thing and it turned it all on its ear. And. The good guy became the bad guy and a really bad

guy. And, uh, it just became it just became much more fun for me to work to.

Right. So have you found since that book that you've written more in that direction, or are you still doing what you were doing before?

You know, when I my first there were two books that I wrote and that is one of them is called Wild Swan. That's the first one I started, but I didn't finish it. And, um, it starts out with, with this car on fire and this man just watching the car burn, and then you kind of get a little backstory as to why he's there, but then you don't hear from him again until a little bit later. And it just kind of like builds. So it's like kind of like every third or fourth chapter. This guy kind of floats in and you kind of get more of his story, and then it kind of floats and you get more of a story. Then you figure out why he's actually there. I kind of dig that cool. It's like it's like, you know, this, this, this story where these people are actually kind of like the, the hub of it all. But you've got this guy kind of wanting to get in and and beat them down, but he can't until the very end when he, when he possibly does.

Mhm. So it sounds like you've got uh the, the beginnings of your stories always start with something very big. So it's, it's interesting to me because it feels like it draws the reader in.

This is a really one of my short stories I wrote. Um, I always wanted to, to start a story in the bedroom and with people having sex. So why not write into the sex? So when I when I did this particular book, the guy, they were having sex and the guy told his his partner, the girl, that he was breaking up with her and not to be too graphic, but they were still in the midst of this all.

So she's like totally stunned at what's going on. And she took her fingernail and she dug it into his his chest and his nipple as he was coming to orgasm. And he thought it was great. And she was like, dude, you're done. And so that was kind of I just kind of wanted jolt, jolt. I just wanted to jolt the the reader right into it and then to say, okay, now what is now getting the trade now what are you going to do? And she had to kind of make her life up again because this guy had to leave. 2.2s

I like that. It's funny. It's a great way

to start with suspense.

Well, you kind of like made me. People don't do that. I mean, people don't jar you right away. They kind of, like, lead you into this nice little story, and then they kind of jar you somewhere in the middle and they give you an end. Why not just jar them right

away? There's there's a term so that I can't remember what it's called.

That's the, uh, that's what they tell you to do in screenwriting movies. So. Yes. Have you ever, uh, written anything for screen or thought about doing anything for

that? I have thought about it. I'm actually trying to work one of my books into a screenplay now, and I'm, you know, not having ever done it before. So I, I've, um, copied up a whole bunch of, of screenplays so I can read up and find out how to do it. I'm taking some webinars to find out how to do that, all because it's a totally different situation. 1.1s There is such a when you're writing the book, you have so much more freedom to do and to say whatever you want. I mean, the color on the walls is cream, or that the 1.1s is really hot. You can't do that in a screenplay. You just have to give dialogue and the reason why people are there, and then it's set up totally different. And it it's going to take me a minute to figure that out.

Yeah. Clarence has been working a lot with screenplays.

Yeah. You find the same thing. Yeah. The

format is different. It's a little more constricted. There's no there's no wiggle room. No.

Yeah. No. And so actually, some of the things that I've been hearing is people don't the guy, the people who are making the movies don't actually care about what mood your characters are in or, or where they are, or what the room looks like or whatever, because they want to do that themselves. They just want to have a dialogue with the story and make sure that that's really, really good. And then you can move on from there, which is very contradictory to what I actually how I write. So it's really difficult.

It's more of a team atmosphere, at least by the time it's all said and done. You have to. Oh yeah, with writing, like you said, you kind of you have all the control. You're building this world. But then knowing that you're you're handing it off to a director, editors, actors especially, you have to be willing to lose control and let your story evolve in other people's eyes. It's

interesting that you say that I was interviewing, um, a director, a director and a producer a couple of weeks ago for one of the magazines, and I was asking her how she felt about people watching her work on screen. And I said, before you begin, is it me as a writer? I enjoy writing the book, but what's the really cool part about is when someone else reads it, they're creating the whole thing in their head. I mean, they're creating the movie that they want to see. But then if they had not what I want to say, I'm only giving them the tools. So when they talk to me about why did you do this, or why did you do that, or I really like this part. And sometimes that doesn't even occur to me when I'm writing it, which is really kind of interesting. But when you're watching something on the screen, that's it. I mean that you can't your mind can't change that because that's what you're actually watching. So you're getting their point of view as opposed to what I wrote. And you kind of

make up no interpretation, no room for interpretation. I

exactly I feel like aside from the fact that movies, anything on the screen is just easier to consume for most people. Um, the reason movies and TV are more accessible to a lot of people is also because of that, because there's more people involved in the process up to the point of release. So you've got all of these different people interpreting it the way they see it and including that on the screen. So there's a bigger there's more room for accessibility. I guess

that's true, but that's true. But

half the fun of reading is jumping into the author's mind and, um, empathizing with these other characters. You're supposed to leave yourself. So you're right,

I come right, I compare it prose fiction is like chess, whereas screenplay writing is like checkers. Like in chess, there's a lot of depth. There's a lot of planning, there's a lot of moving. Whereas checkers, it's very I don't want to call it simple because some screenwriters are really good and they do really. But

you're really just moving pieces. I mean, it doesn't have it's very

accurate in a way. You're right. Yeah. That's

the way I, I equate it in my head. Anyway.

That's a great way to look at it.

Um, I just finished, uh, if you're looking for material for learning how to write scripts better, I just finished save the Cat. I know Clarence has read that. Yeah, and there's an audio. Okay. There's an audio version as well. That's the one I did

so years ago. And I don't even know if you know this movie. It's called crash.

Yeah I don't yeah. Is that the one with multiple perspectives going on.

Yes. So all the stories within the, um, the movie, the characters relate in some way, know some and some are in some way. And, um, when I watched it for the very first time, I was in even even now I happens now I, um, was in the movie theater and I was just overtaken with emotion that I literally was crying in the theater. Everyone left the theater, and I still sat there, and I was just. It was just too much. I couldn't not move out of there. And then when I finally did, I sat down outside it on a bench and was still crying. It was ridiculous. So when I went back to read it and I thought, I don't, I don't get it. I'm not crying at this moment. This is crazy. And it's just because there is no emotion in the script. It's all that you see on the screen is something totally different. 1.6s

Yeah, I'll have to rewatch

that. That's a fair assessment.

That's that's sort of the dream, either with scripts or scripts becoming movies or our stories is to have our stories impact people in that way. So it's all about, I think, those moments

I totally agree with. Yeah, I had I've had several people read my books and they tell me how they did it. Not that it changed their lives, but it really spoke to them. Mhm. What was interesting about it is I had it, I had one of them um, in a review there was like a, a book club that wanted to review it and then I, then I would go there after, after they were done and then I would discuss it with them. And one of the guys who was there at city had a problem with the way I talked to how my characters spoke in the book, and I said, can you be more specific? And he said, well, you're always and they're always saying, go with or do you want to come with or. And I said, um, where are you from? And this guy was from new Jersey. And I said, okay, there's not much I can do for that. I said, but let's say if you were in, um, Texas and you wanted to say y'all or you wouldn't say you all, you would say y'all. And he's like, okay. And I said, if you're from Michigan, you don't complete the sentence. You always say, go with me. And he's like, all right. I said, so if I were to write a story that wrote that out and these people are in Michigan, it wouldn't be believable, because the way that they talk is isn't inside the book. If you're going to do that kind of thing, this is if it's this is going to be a generalized it can be anywhere kind of thing. You have to be specific to the location where you are. And that's just something that Michiganders do, is they always say, do you want to come with me?

So I think I feel like because we've talked about this before, I feel like if you're doing that in a script, that might actually, again, be something that's more accessible because you can see those characters interacting. And so you don't just need the dialogue that you might not understand, you have sort of more context. But yeah, because I do that a lot. Um, and I think that. 1.1s Everybody should because it's what makes your characters unique and obviously puts them in a place that they're from. But instead of just flat, straight, chromatically, grammatically correct dialogue, which is

boring. So. So there you are. So, um, what do you guys what's the genre that you guys write in? I

do more mostly speculative fiction. We'll say sci fi, speculative,

okay. And I do mostly horror in young adult.

Okay. So maybe that all worked. Let's just say that you were working and you were doing a sci fi thing and, um, all the characters, because this is you're 22, 55 and all the characters were very, um, precise in their speech. How boring would that be? You would have to have a character that had some sort of change in their voice, or change in their sentence structure to make it so people would be a little bit more intrigued by what they were having to say, as opposed to everybody having the same voice throughout the entire story, don't you think? Yes, yes. I mean, even think when you think about it, even Star Trek, Mr. Spock, and the way he speaks is cadence, whatever is totally different from everybody else's. Yeah. And Jim Kirk is the same way. I mean, even now people are like and mimicking how he talked because it was so odd. Right. And

and you're on to something here because people don't speak in

full, grammatically correct sentences. People speak with slang, broken sentences. Sometimes they have inflections like, you know, things that change their speech, stutters, stammers, stuff like that. And if you can put it into your fiction without

overdoing it, without beating the reader to death with it, it can add a different element, texture,

even different experience.

All right. I think he broke the rules grammatically with the way his character spoke.

Oh yeah. Yeah, I agree with you. And

that's part of what makes his his work interesting as well. I think. Um, interesting. What an understatement. Shakespeare. Okay.

Yeah. Thanks for all right. 1.4s What is. Oh. Did you have any questions you wanted to pray? Uh,

tell us a little bit more about your time in New York.

This is a really cool story. So, um, I when I got out of high school, I didn't want to actually go to college. I wanted to take a year off and decide what I wanted to do, because at that time, I was just living in this little bitty town and knew I needed to get out and wasn't sure how I was going to do it. So when I went, my mom talked me into going to the community college and in our area. And when she did, she kind of said, why don't you take this dance class? You like dancing, you can take this dance class. I had never taken a dance class in my life. And I'm like, mom, this is not the same as being out on the dance floor having a good time. This is the actual dance. Just do it. Take it. Well, when I took the class, the director of the department came to me halfway through the semester and said, we'd like to offer you a full scholarship for next semester. Really? Come on. This is I've been doing this for a couple of months, so I of course, and I should preface this by saying, my father told me that if I paid for the first two years of college, he paid for my second two years of college, which is fair, because that means you're going to finish it, right? Yeah, yeah. So I took it. So at this point I pay like $200 for my education so far. Mhm. Because at that time, if you remember this was 1980 and tuition was wasn't so bad okay. And so I took, I took it. Well at the end of the year she gave me another full year scholarship to go through. So now I paid still paid $200 for my first two years of college. So I'm cool because now my dad's going to pay for the rest. Well, as we were going through, she said, I think this you should audition for NYU and their dance department again. So now we're talking a year and a half of dancing, and you want me to go to NYU and dance in New York City? That just makes no sense to me whatsoever. The people that I was dancing with had been doing this for three and four, and now I've been doing this for a year and a half, and you think that I can go and do this? Just. You're crazy. There were ten of us who decided to go into New York. I went just because I wanted to. New York. Mhm. And when I did this, I got in. I was actually the only one who got in from those ten people. Oh, so here I am going to New York City. Now my father is like, now I have to pay for this. At that time it was um, $35,000 a year to go. So I'm like, you, this is the deal. So he we I went to New York, and the second time I was there, or when I got there the second semester, the, um, department head came to me and said, I think that you should audition for Eric Hopkins. They're a modern company, and that's worth a lot of what I was doing in my first school. Again. Two years in and you're thinking I should go dance with a company. Are you out of your mind? This is crazy. Well, I went and auditioned and I got in, 1.2s I was dancing, I was dancing in the morning for my classes at NYU and doing my afternoon early afternoon classes. That you are so gentle that you have to take. And then I was dancing in the afternoon with Eric Hawkins. As the next year came around and I was graduating, and they said, I think that you should go to, um, the Joffrey Ballet because they have a whole jazzy feel about it and jazzy feel, and that's really what you are. And now we've now we're talking. I've been doing this for for three and a half years, four years. And the idea of me getting into a major ballet company was idiotic. But I win and I got it. So I stayed there, and I danced with both of the companies for about a year, maybe a year and a half. My parents got sick all the same time, so I had to go back and help them, started a whole situation and got myself into, um, I created a nonprofit with dance and music and drama and creative writing and art all under one umbrella, and I offered the classes to underprivileged kids. Mhm. Which got me into the nonprofit world, and I did that for about ten years. But from there, after we had to close because the funding kind of fell out in Michigan for the arts, I went to back to New York because amfAR, the American Foundation for Aids research, asked me to come and help them out with their Covid related marketing and special events that just escalated into going from there to the company. And then I ended up at the the Riverside Church and working for them, doing the same kind of development work that, um, I'm doing actually now here in Saint Petersburg. It was kind of a crazy thing. I've lived in New York City 3 or 4 times and just loved every minute of it. I've been very lucky.

So where does the writing come in? I know you have an interesting story about your first book.

Yeah, that's a good. That's a good one, too. So, um, my 16 year old daughter, or when my daughter was 16, I said, why don't you ask me why? How I liked the story that I was reading because I was reading a lot and I said I could write a better story. And she said, why don't you? This is something for the two of you. So that when you're 16 year old child comes to you that you know this is what you have to do. You have to to kind of like go to the challenge and say, okay, fine, I will. So I sat down and I wrote this, this book, the first one, bless me, father. And when I gave it to her, I typed it up and gave it to her. And she's like, um, dad, that's just a manuscript. This is this isn't. So I said, fine. And then I worked to find a publisher who would publish it, and then I got it. I got that done. I put it in there and I said, there you are, there's the book. And she said, now what are you going to do with that? And I had no idea, because the publisher that I had wasn't. They were more of a, um, they were going to help you, but they weren't going to help you. So I had to figure out how I was going to do something with this book. So I, we were living in New York City at the time, and I bought a hundred copies, and I put them, I gave them away on the subway so that people could just read them there. And have you been to New York City before? Yes, yes. And you, you've got on the subway, you know,

everyone is reading, everyone is listening to music, and everyone is is reading the newspaper. So they're doing something. So if you had a book and you saw a book on the subway that someone was reading where they were, two people were reading the same book, you would think, I need to get that book. Mhm. Well, because of that, those 100 copies I sold 17,000. Yeah. That's

crazy. We got to get to New

York. 2.7s So it was kind of cool. And it was. And since then I, I do a lot of out-of-the-box things to try and market myself. And, you know, it works.

Speaking of marketing, there's an interesting section in save the Cat about, I don't know if it goes on to this extent anymore, but back in the 90s, I guess there was like Spec Wars. Actually, I don't know when this book was written, so I don't know when he was referring to, but um, yeah, it must have been the 90s because he was saying when they would pitch the script to studios, um, they would go all out with, uh, like, for example, Hocus Pocus. The people were dressed up as witches. Um hmm. There were a couple, or there was another one where they'd send out, like, prepare for this date packages to all the studio execs. Um, and then there'd be like some sort of timer that would count down and it would buzz for all of them at the same exact time when that pitch was being made. Just interesting stuff like that that I thought was cool.

See, I think it's interesting that that perception, how it carries over. I mean, with breaking those publishing, I had so many authors come to me and say, I want a $10,000 advance on my book. 1.1s I'm just sitting here thinking, no, no, no, no. And the reason why is because most of the people who come to me kind of came to me then couldn't actually get their book published anywhere else. And that was the reason why I needed it, was to help the people who couldn't get published so that they could, and then help the market so that they could actually do something with it. Then not knowing that the average book sells about 150 copies, if you're lucky. Mhm. You equate that into to sales. That's not $10,000. No, no. I mean, so me giving someone $10,000 for a book that I don't even know is going to sell, it just makes no sense whatsoever. They're thinking, well this is the way it was in the 90s and the 80s and 90s where you got this big, huge advance and you lived out of that. And. That these big, huge million dollars for for the book because you sold so much. We the people you know there's what do they say 4 million. There's like 404.5 million authors on Amazon right now.

Yeah, yeah. Sounds about

so. So where is all that money going? You mean people, you know, not everyone sells their book or they don't sell many of them, or the ones that you are working really hard to promote themselves to do that. And you just can't put that. You can't put your book in my hands and say, here and go, and me give you $10,000 and you're going to sell 150 copies.

No. Oh, yeah. Uh, well, back in the day, I was reading an article about how the publishers, before the internet, they'd have, uh, deals with different stores where people would actually go to get their books, um, and they'd have a certain amount of space or like a whole shelf dedicated to that publishing company. So then they'd have the authors that they were willing to pay to consistently pump out books, and then they would put it on the shelves. They would there was guaranteed placement there, and there was sort of a guaranteed, uh, audience. Um, so the money would have been worth it in that case.

You're right. So here's where, like the story for you when right before Harry Potter hit Scholastica, um, the Scholastic Scholastic publications, whatever it is, they have their own publishing company, but they also have their own, um, bookstores around the country so that they can market and they can they can, um, sell all these books that they have on top of whatever sell somewhere else. So they're, they're doing that promotion of that marketing for you. But I have to know what a Harry Potter. 1.1s Promoter

who I think Scholastic. Um, so there's been.

Scholastic. Is it Scholastic, isn't it? I

don't know if Scholastic does Harry Potter, but I think that, um, there's like bins at the local supermarket. And I asked somebody about them. They said they get they're all like kids books and they get them right by the bin and they're like $5 books. And I think that's a scholastic thing. So I was trying to get my

books, I gotta know. So it's plastic is Harry Potter. So yeah. No. Interesting. So it's it's funny I, I have this habit of, of, you know, you've got this computer in your hand. So when there's something that you don't know, you just have to look it up as Google is free. Yeah. So yeah that's right. That's what I do. 1s I am always I am always googling something.

All right. Uh, so it's been about 30 minutes. What do you say we tell a story? What

kind of story would you like? Uh,

it's really up to you. Well, it's up to you to start. You're going to start the story, and then it's going to go to me, and then Clarence. And we're just going to take turns. You can go as long as you want on your turn. You can just pass it off if you can't think of anything. Um, did you come prepared with your five words? No. Okay, so

so I, I need five words. Google random word generator. There's a site and have it generate five random words. Um, you can write stuff down and it's just a little extra fun challenge if you want to try to sneak your words into the story. And then after the story, we're going to have a bonus conversation where we're going to try to guess each other's words and and then you can do more any shout outs that you have? Oh, I see,

okay, link drops and all that good stuff. Come on. So I'm going to

let the five minutes have to be in the first part of the story. Can I just be anywhere in the story? Anywhere.

And you don't have to use them. It's just a fun little lecture game. Be warned. Clarence is very good at sneaking them all in. I

need a piece of paper. I can do some guessing. Where's your. 1.4s

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The seven cousins who were at Perk Up coffee shop brainstorming about what their vacations were going to be.

Is that it? Yeah. Okay, seven cousins perk up. Every year the cousins would go on vacation together. And. They'd all put in their ideas into an old cowboy hat, and the first pick would be where they'd go, um, and it was anywhere. It could be the other side of the world for all they cared, because it was all coming from the money of, uh, the uncle, Uncle Jed, who was a successful, um, businessman with all kinds of businesses all over the world. He was even into some shady stuff that they didn't like to talk about because they were happy to go on vacation. So they all put in their, their, uh, ideas in the hat. And Uncle Jed took the hat and he shook it and he gave his trademark charming smile. He had one golden tooth that nobody knew where it came from, and nobody ever asked. We never talked about it. He shook the hat and he reached in and he pulled out a

slip of paper. The slip of paper read New York City. Everyone looked at each other. Can we pick again? 1.2s They said 1.1s jokingly. New York. All right, we're going to New York. Everybody, put on your ballet shoes. Get ready. And everyone clapped and cheered. And as they were planning out the trip, they were googling. And a woman sitting behind them overheard, and she said, oh, you guys are going to to. To New York. That's fantastic. I was there on Broadway back in 77. I was a young dancer, and I used to be quite the quite the showgirl back in the day. And she began to go on this diatribe, this story telling about how she'd been very popular. Go ahead, take

it. She'd been very popular in the Off Broadway sector. She decided that she was going to move. Move from New York City and go off into a different line of work because it just wasn't working for her. She wasn't moving up as much as she wanted to. So she moved to Ohio and Ohio. She found. I don't know how she found a different way of life. That was something totally different to her. And she kept and she continued to tell the story to the to the cousins, but they became very disinterested.

So as they turned their backs and continued working on their own vacation that they were going to New York, they decided that they would actually take again, that they wanted to have a non-English speaking country that they went to go.

Oh, so they're they're redrawing. Yeah, redrawing. Okay. Who, um, who was the woman I completely spaced? They're

just some random 1.1s

guys behind them.

Yeah. Okay. Well, little did the cousins know that little Jimmy was wanting to be a Broadway star. So he was really wanting to go to New York. But he thought, where else could I pitch where Broadway's are big. And so he pulled out his cellular device and he googled it, and he found that ticket. 1.9s

He found that ballet was very popular in Taiwan. Of all places, bizarre but interesting. And as they're going back and forth specifically about Broadway and about 1.1s dance and musicals, they drew the name, they drew the the next place and they came up with not quite Taiwan. They came up with China, China. Everyone looked at each other and they kind of gave each other that look, you know, which look, because they know that the Chinese government is not notoriously great 1.2s China. It is, they say, and that's

how the writer's block got banned from

China. And that's how that's how that's how we are not rich in China. So a few weeks go by and everyone's packed and everybody's boarding their plane. They're all giving each other the look. They're curious. They're kind of excited. They're a little afraid. Not all of them had been to those parts of the world, but some of them had. And they're goofing off and they're having a blast, and they're walking on to their plane when one of them says, you know what else would be fun? When we're in China? What if we

took a long, leisurely stroll on the Great Wall? Take

it. That's where I was going to take it to. I mean, that's probably gonna go. 1.3s It's funny, I like that. Um, the characters are basically the seven cousins. Yeah, and little Jimmy and Uncle Jed, I guess. 1.2s

Are we. Can we keep going?

Yep, yep. 1.1s Okay, so at that moment, everyone's cell phones decided to go off, and they were alerted that their aunt's, um, design shop was on fire downtown. It went off again, and they found out that one of their parent's law offices was also on fire. And then it went off again. And another one's, um, their uncle's orchard was also catching on fire. They had to get off the plane to find out what was going on, so they could use their phones to to contact their relatives. They decided to delay their their trip and to go back and help. Once they got to the orchard, they saw their uncle running into this burning barn. One of them went to a hose, trying to figure out if they could help with the fire, waiting for the fire trucks to come. Another one went in to help. And as the fire trucks arrived, the burning barn fell to the ground with their uncle and one of the cousins left inside. Little did they know that there was also a cement block room inside the barn where the uncle pulled the cousin. Last name. The cousin. Uh, Jack.

Jack. And the uncle's name is Tristan. So Tristan and Jack are now in this cement room, guarding themselves from the fire and the building that is just falling down around them, not knowing how they were going to get up, they close the door and just kind of settled in. The people on the outside, the cousins were trying to figure out how they could get them out, until one of them remembered that the the cement black room was there and that there was a dirt floor in the room. So they went around the side of the barn that was still up, figured out where the the cement, uh, room was in relation to the barn, and started digging a hole so that they could dig a hole underneath the the barn and into the cement block. Once they were able to do that, they, um, they were able to pull Jack out of the barn. And as they pulled to try to get Tristan out the barn and actually collapsed on top of them, and he perished in the fire. Jack

perished. Oh, Tristan parents 1.1s

perished. Well, that escalated quickly. 1.5s And while this was going on, little Jimmy sat with. I just realized I didn't intend that as a reference to, um, we have another character from a video game I made called Little Jimmy. Um, but that's not him. This is a different little Jimmy in a different universe. Uh, so little Jimmy is sitting with his cousin Jack, and he's scared. But he's also sad that apparently they're not going on their vacation this year. They've lost a cousin, so now they're down to six. Um, and Uncle Jed is nowhere to be found. Um, so while they're sitting there waiting for someone to rescue them, uh, Jack says just to fill the void. Says, you know that this is one of Uncle Jed's oldest properties, right? It's rumored that there's something magical going on here, and that's why he's kept it, because otherwise, there's nothing of value here. And I don't get it. And clearly, he's getting his riches somewhere. So little, little Jimmy perked up a little bit, said, what kind of magic? Um, little Jimmy is like, seven is like eight years old. So he's still kind of believes in some of the stuff in, like, Magic and Santa Claus and stuff like that. So he's willing to believe in this tale that Jack is spinning and Jack goes on, take some moment to think about how he's going to build on this lie that he just started to tell, and he's remembering Jimmy's desire to be a dancer. He says there's there's a pair of shoes in there that it's rumored or magical. They make you just ten times dancer that you were before. And if we get them, they put out fires. And, 1.1s

uh, 1.8s uh,

little Jimmy was infatuated with the magical shoes immediately. He went on. He went on his journey, avoiding the parts of the woods that were still ablaze in search of the magical shoes and possibly other loot. And as he went. There was smoke rolling high above, and he was careful not to get too close, but he could

feel the heat, feel the

the the flames that were kind of licking him. And as he goes, he's looking around and finds a

giant rock or

a series of rocks

and it looks like there's space between them. Maybe a cave, maybe, or something. So Jimmy moves closer, looking over his shoulder, making sure that nobody is watching him, and he hunkers down and he sort of crawls, scoots across some rocks with his hands and plunges himself into this little

cave. And he goes further and further. And the further he goes, the less he can hear, unless he can see it's getting dark, but he keeps going because he thinks that he can see something. It looks small, but maybe fluorescent or sparkly or he's not really sure, and he's almost convinced that this just may be the shoes. So he continues trenching deeper and deeper, and as he goes, he feels something shifting and it makes him afraid. And it feels like it is, in fact, a

rock. And the rock dislodges itself from above him, lands on his ankle and shatters it immediately.

Take it. Oh dear God. 1.6s This is okay. Let me think about this. Where

the hen. 3.3s

Shatters his ankle completely, making him have to use his arms to an upper body to crawl even further into the hole. There was this fantastic light at the end that he was finally able to see, and it was in fact, the shoes that he was looking for. Once he was able to get them, and he picked them up and tried to put them on his feet, realizing that they were just too big. Because of this, he had no words and didn't know what he was going to say or what he was going to do, how he was going to get out of the hole. As he continued to keep the shoes on his feet, he noticed that the shoes started to shrink and actually form to his foot, making actually healing the ankle that has just been smashed. As he stood, he saw another light at the end of the tunnel. Walking towards it, he was able to come out the other side. The world that he thought that he had come from wasn't the world that he was walking into. It's almost like a door at the Wizard of Oz kind of thing. But it actually wasn't. It was much more stark and much more depressing. The only thing that actually had any kind of color or light or the shoes on his feet there was sparkling. Walking forward, he tried to find his way back if he could, thinking if he went around the the rocks, he'd be able to find his way back home. That didn't work. So he tried to go up and above it and that didn't work. He was at the very top, not knowing what else he was going to do, and decided if this is what my life is going to be, this is not how I want to live. So he stepped off the edge of the

cliff and all right. 1.7s And then, um, so I think we're at a good ending point almost. So but you you do have to end it. But we're I'm going to go I'm going to keep it going one more round. So the next thing, um, it's funny that you mentioned Wizard of Oz too, because I was thinking of the ruby slippers. Yeah. Um, so he's falling. He's falling off the cliff. He's been he's been deprived of his vacation and. 4.5s

I'm so. Yes. Devastating because you can't go in China.

Are in or New York or anywhere. Really? Yes. Um. But he's. 1.9s He's. He's falling. And. Wait a minute.

Let me let me help you. Let me help you. So he's after you jumped off the cliffs. He thought he was going to fall to his death. He didn't realize that the shoes actually had magic powers. And he started to float. He didn't hit the ground on the rocks after all. He started to hover over the ground. There you are. Thank you. And so he came to a soft landing on a pile of hay, which the hay didn't need to be there, but it was like Assassin's Creed. So because that's what I was thinking of this, he said, good Lord, thank God I can trust these shoes. Um. 2.1s

And then. Okay. 4s

And then he wrote other bad dialogue, too. Oh. He's kidding. 1.1s Um. He lands on his hay, lands on this soft, pillowy hay, and he looks around and

used straw because hay is not very comfortable. Straw was once more comfortable. He lands on this beautiful soft straw and he's looking around and he notices first that the smell is not the same. It doesn't smell like burnt woods anymore. It doesn't smell like embers and and char. It smells like fair food, like cotton candy and sausages and French fries. And as he's looking around curiously, he hears music. Not just any music. It is jazz music. It is a lively

jazz music. He starts snapping his fingers and swaying, and the dance just comes over him all at once. He's

full of it alive, and he hops up onto one of the boulders and he starts going for it 100%, just swinging. And he is

loving it. And as he's doing this, people and animals alike are starting to come out of the woods. It's Clyde blossoms on its side, blossoms all over again, and he's putting on the performance of a lifetime. And he's just loving their reaction. Take it.

He dances this way for hours and hours and hours. Sweat continues to come down his his his brow is not sure how much he is going to go. He is thinking that this is kind of like a red shoes kind of story, where he's going to dance to his death. Quickly he stopped and stood and watched the audience and walked down into them so that he could be a part of them. Going over to the fairgrounds, he picked up a hotdog because after all, the dancing is really hungry, so he picked up a hotdog and a soda and walked through the fair and decided that this is where life was going to be. The end. 1.2s Hold on. I'm gonna add an afterword because I've been thinking about it for a while. Please fasten your seatbelts as we prepare for our final descent. 1.1s Little Jimmy shook awake. He looked around. Oh, good for

you. He was on an airplane, seated next to his other six cousins. Either way, it was. Tristan was still there, alive. Jack was still there telling one of the other cousins some story, and Uncle Jed was asleep, but smiling creepily, and his gold tooth shining in the glint of the overhead light, and he looked out the window and saw that after all that, they actually were going to New York, and down there was the Statue of Liberty beckoning him. It was time for him to dance. 1.2s There you go. 1.1s

Yeah. And then much better. 2.4s Yeah. Wow.

That story was

wild. So, what did you think of that process? You said

it's fine. You said that you've

done something like this before? Yes. Years ago. Years ago, there was a group that I had on Facebook, and it was like an every Wednesday kind of thing. Wednesday at 7:00, someone would start the first line, and then I think they're like 10 or 15 of us. And then you would just continue to add the next line. So you build the story with all these people. It got a little chaotic because people were wanting to put their ideas in. Yeah.

So there was no order. There was no way of making an order for you. You just kind of put it in the best you could. And sometimes the story a little chaotic, but it went pretty well. But people were trying to get in and get their stories in it and they couldn't. So sometimes they would fall away. But then the new people would come on. But it was a lot of fun.

Once in a while when we do this, because we've done 60 somewhat of these now I want 70, actually. Yeah, almost 70 of these. One of us will come in with almost a fully formed idea, which is sounds like it's great in theory, except it's really hard to pull off because the strings sort of break and it starts to go and weird directions. But it is fun.

Yeah. You have to be willing to, to give up. It's a team process. Give up on your initial idea and let it evolve and adapt. Yeah,

this is cool that you and your your podcast this way. I, um, I had a podcast with someone a couple of years ago, and they always ended up that when you were a kid, what did you really want to become? So when you're like 6 or 7, what did you think you're going to be when you're an adult? And she asked me that question and I said I wanted to be a witch. Hey, that's it. I got her and she's like, excuse me?

And I said, well, sure, when you're a witch, you've got all this power and you can do all these little things. You don't have to be ugly or do you mean things, but you have all this power that you can do really great things with. And she's like, I have never, ever had anyone telling me that she wanted to be a witch. So, yeah,

uh, apparently I wanted to be a golf ball, a gun.

I could tell my mom I want it to be a golf ball. All right? Not even a golfer. Just a golf ball. Hey. 1.4s

I don't think there's any. 1.2s I don't think there's any one. I have one more story for you. When I was interviewing for the Riverside Church. The guy who would be my boss asked me this final question and said, if this room were full of ping pong balls, how many ping pong balls would there be? So he looked at me like, seriously, what's the answer? And I looked back to him and I said, what's the color of the ping pong balls to see? And it just totally changed his luck because like what? I said, well, if the ping pong balls are white like they normally would be, it would be a certain number. But if you painted them and they would be red, for instance, then the paint is going to be out of me and they'll be less balls. So what color are the balls? 1.3s

That's a fair question. His response was, when can you start? He was looking for someone to give him a creative answer, and I gave him that

song that, uh, it reminds me of something I just saw on TikTok this morning where the guy was. He would approach random people at the supermarket and tell them a joke. Why this? And then the answer would be something ridiculous, not a real punchline. And the people would laugh like they got it. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. And he'd be like, he'd laugh along with him and then he'd be like, explain it. And then they would be like, uh, so the and they would just come up with the most ridiculous explanations. And then at the end, he would tell them, uh, that it was just a nonsense joke.

I think that's a great idea.

It was it was pretty funny.

Why not me? Random people need more of that in their lives, don't you think? And people get so much stuff and brazenness that you got to be. You got to go off the wall sometimes.

That's why we enjoy the podcast. Did you have something to say? Or. You look like you're. I

did, and then I forgot it's gone. Oh about the what you wanted to do with it was like, I don't think there's any other answer other than writer for me, but,

uh, this is driven. He's been driving since he was born.

I was born a writer. I was born with a pen in my hand. That's cool. 1.1s

Um,

but I was I

was forced out to it by my 16 year old child.

We all get there in different ways.

That's right. Okay. So that's. Oh, wait wait, wait, what are your five words?

Yeah. That's. So we're going to jump right into that. Um, do you actually. So Clarence and I are going to guess your words first and don't reveal them until everyone's guessed. Um, go ahead with your guess.

All right. My guess was cousins burning cement and hot dog. Did I get any of them? No. I had some

cousins as well. Okay. Um, I also had coffee shop. Nope. Um, I had I did have burning as well. Uh. Fire 1.1s barn? Nope. Dirt?

Nope. Uh,

damn. Um, what else did you say? 1.4s That the site doesn't give names, does it? I don't know, Tristan. No,

I don't think it does give names. No, that's

one of my favorite characters names. Tristan. 1.4s

Um, could it have been the same character in some crossover universe?

Oh, sure.

Except that she dies. He. 1.1s Okay, so what were your

words? Brainstorm very first sentence. And and also seven. Because there were seven seconds,

I have to give them fantastic English because they wanted to go to a non English speaking country. And then he had no words. So

Franz John fantastic seven English and words. 1.5s

All right. You got all of them. Yeah. Well you might have actually won this round. I thought you said, um, non-English speaking country because you were just trying to spice it up, make it more interesting. 1.1s Um, but then I sort of floundered because, like you said, Taiwan. Well, I was next, so I could have said anything, but, uh. But I

did lean towards, like,

Thailand or something because I've been there. Yeah. Okay. So let's, uh, let's guess Clarence's words then. Oh, you go first.

I have I have no idea.

I. Yeah. You, uh, you were tricky. They're not as obvious as I was. 1.3s Um. The guy said ballet at first, but then I realized that you were just building off of the conversation.

He said that, right? Is

that your final answer? Did you do ballet?

I did ballet. Really? So one of his words was ballet. One of my words was ballet. 1.2s

Yeah.

Interesting. Um. And then. Well, I actually got one. Right. Mhm. Um, country names wouldn't be in there, like Taiwan.

Um, I don't think so.

Rolling. Licking? Nope. Stone or rock? Nope. Ah. Oh, fluorescent. Nope.

Airplane.

Nope. So something Clarence does a lot when we play is he will he'll throw in some words that he wouldn't normally use just to throw you off the trail. And then he'll throw in one of his random words, or he'll squeeze them all into one sentence really fast.

Yeah, I've done that before. Yeah, I've thrown in some bullshit sentences.

Just. It's funny, I thought about doing that in the very beginning just to get it out of the way.

So we didn't guess any of his. Well, I guess one of his words. Yeah. So

you got one. 1.2s All right. My words were reaction, loot, shatter, ballet and woman. And I used them all.

You did? Yeah. Nice. But I guess one of your words. Yes. So Chris beat you in that regard? Um. All right, you guys, what were my words? I think Clarence got them right away. 1s You go first, though. I

gold tooth? Nope. 1.5s

Good guess. That is a good guess. Um, what else could it have been? You know, was an airplane? Nope. Hmm.

Da da da. Mine were golden, which was no, uh, magic.

Deprived?

Yeah, I did deprive. That was pretty obvious.

Lord, no. And descent?

Uh, no. No. Um, so I use deprive, and I also use trust. I thought that one's pretty obvious, but I think you just thought I was doing bad dialogue. Yeah. Um, and then I also had Palace, which would have made sense, but we were at the end of the story, so if I. Because I was going to say, oh, he fell in the hay and then he saw a palace that opens up a whole nother chapter. Yeah. I refrained, um, context, which I didn't use, and I crossed off party. Did I use it at the end? Party of six or something, I don't know. I don't know why I would have oh, unless I was like preparing to use it and didn't. So I think I only use two of my words. Okay.

Yeah. This was a fun game. Excuse me. Yeah, that was a fun story. Um, and then I thought we were going to go to New York sooner, so I was going to slip in. Uh, have you ever. I assume you've been to the Ellen Stardust Diner? Yes. So that's one of my favorite New York memories is I've been there a couple times, actually, and I've always wanted to write a love story. Uh, or like a love triangle of a story about people trying to make it in Broadway and working at this restaurant. Uh, and then there's, like, two, two men, maybe that love one the same girl. And it's sort of like a musical. And they're trying to profess their love through song at the restaurant. I don't know, I never developed the story, but I always thought, that's cool. Yeah, yeah. So I wanted to sneak that, that diner into the story, but we just never made it. Never got

that far. He goes there after the story ends. There you go. 1.4s

Beautiful. Well done guys.

Yeah, it was cool. So thank you. 1s

We also use this spot for. If you wanted to talk about anything else, uh, shout out any upcoming projects that you're working. I saw that you had one coming soon on your website. Besides the magazine. If I click on the books, it says, after all,

my next book. Oh, yeah. Let's talk about that for a second. So, um, what's happened with the books is that a lot of it's kind of become this series kind of thing. It started out in Blossoming Father with this particular family, the Matthews family, and they've been in, I think 4 or 5 of, of the nine so far. And the last one I did, it was called just a Pool of Light. And it was like the first part of, of this particular part of their lives or this year. And so it's a pool of light. And now it's going to go into submission, and submission is um, the just the pool of light. Was that the, the positive part of the year. And then just the sense of mission is the negative part of the year and it's, it's coming into, um, difficulty to, to write for me because, um. It's not necessarily at submission that you think it would be submission, but the things that people actually submit to in their lives, kind of like the trade thing. You're submitting to these things because you have no choice. You have to submit to your boss being next to you because you need the job for your submitting to 1.2s not fulfilling your dreams, because you can't find your way out of the whole or the the direction of the team to go to to make it that you don't have the knowledge to get you to where I need to go, those kinds of things. There's a little bit of submission in there too, but um, but that's the gist of the whole thing. But when we were talking about our story that we had created, The Burning Barn actually is part of it. So there's this family, there's about 80 of them, and they have several different, um, businesses throughout this town. It's called Jackson and. 2.9s This woman is the interior designer name is Claire, and her mother was from Florida, and she's evil. And she came and she started her her design shop and fire. When she got the car for that, she also found out that her husband Orchard was also on fire. So instead of going to her shop, she went back to the orchard, saw her husband going into the, um, the barn to save it with a couple of other people. And then the barn falls down and that cement block is frozen for real. He goes into this town by himself. They figure out where he's going, and they, um, they get him out thinking that everything's okay, but because his smoke inhalation is so bad, he starts to cough and gives himself a heart attack and he actually dies.

And this is the beginning of your story.

This is like the beginning of the story. So what happens is he is, um, 1.2s

as a child, he was afraid of the dark. So he had a flashlight underneath his pillow all the time. And his parents were trying to, um, really break him of that habit, and they would all steal it back. He has four brothers who stole the the flashlight back from his parents all the time to give it to him so that he would feel safe at night. So as he's dying, as he died, they're going to do his funeral. And his wife decided because even now is an adult, he's still had a flashlight by his bed or had to have a nightlight. So

she wanted to put a flashlight in his, um, casket with him. And no one knew what was going on until the four brothers came up to talk to her and wanted to find out what the flashlight was for. And then. Then they told her the story that they he always would sleep with it. So now all of them are gone. They put the flashlight in the coffin.

Huh? I like that your your characters seem to have a lot of depth. I try multi-dimensional,

that's that's a pretty good thread right there. So where should

where should we start? Or our listeners, where would you recommend they start? Right at the beginning or what's your favorite book? That was one of my that you've written

there. My, um, the favorite book is The Trade. Um, I like that one. I like bless me, bless me, father and, um, Water's Edge. Those are my three favorite books.

And can we start any of these, the books that have connections in any at any point or.

No. So you have to read it goes, bless me, father, the trade, then Wilde Swan and then, um, water's edge and now the pool of light. So there are those five are the ones that have to do in a row. And then submission will be the last. I don't want to, you know, that you get to a point where you're tired of the characters, but this will be the last of the Mathews family. Okay? Throughout the entire thing, it's it's a really cool that they're a really cool family to be part of. I mean, everyone helps each other. Everyone wants to be to be really cool with each other. They don't. They don't argue too much. They're their friends, their family. So they obviously do. But each of them has. They're very entrepreneurial. So each of them has their own business and they try and help each other. And it's good to the point where, excuse me, they, um, gather on every holiday at this, this auction, because he has a ballroom. There's 80 of them. So they have a ballroom that they go to and all the holidays and all the birthdays and this is kind of just what they do. They're known throughout the community because they have so many businesses that interconnect and help each other. Unless they have. Now think about it. If you have all these kids, they've gone through school, so then you know them as well. And they're just very popular in this, this town. And when Boston dies, his name is Boston, by the way. Dies. It's rather a huge thing because everybody in town knows who he is. He's has an audition. People go out there to get their fruits and vegetables. I mean, he's got he's created this, this really cool place for people to go. And now that'll all be gone. So it becomes a really cool big thing. And, uh, yeah. So if you're going to start somewhere, start with the first one and then work your way up from

there. All right. Perfect. Cool. Well, thanks for coming on the

podcast, I should say to the the story goes like these five boys

are, um,

what are they, 16, 14, 13, 12 and ten. So when the first book that they're young and now in, in, um, in just a pool of light, they're in their 60s. So that takes you from being a kid into your 60s to know what, what has to happen. So there's all kinds of things that go on. There's in each one of the books, somebody, somebody passes away. Each one of the book, there's always there's always somebody coming back and trying to do something to them because they don't like that. They have all this, this connection, and there's always something that is that it gives them a little bit of trauma.

Hmm. Cool. Um, before we take off, uh, do you want to shout out where we can find your work?

You can do that on breaking news publishing. It still has my books on there. You can go to Christopher um, Klassen Company that also has my books there. You can go to Amazon Kindle, and I think that's it.

And, um, and the magazines as well, we're going to. Is that like a subscription format? Do you have like a Patreon or.

No, you can. I didn't want to do it that too much because the magazines are going to be we didn't talk about this much. The magazines are going to be different because magazines are kind of going out of style. Mhm. But I wanted to make a hard copy because like me, I like to have a tangible thing in my hand when I'm reading it. I like to read off the computer and they're going to be digital. And then everything in the magazines is also going to be done on podcasts so that you can get the information there as well. Right? So there's three ways that you can get it. And that two gives the advertisers three different places where their advertisements can go. So it's kind of a cool little setup.

So the the hard copy is just going to be an Amazon sort of thing.

Yes. All right. Well we will share the links when that's available. In the meantime we will have all your links in the show notes for this episode. Um, and yeah, if unless you have more to talk about, I think that's a wrap. Writer's block. 3.3s Cool kids. 1.1s Subscribe. 1.6s And tune in next week. 2.5s For the next episode. 2.1s Writer's block. 2.1s Podcast of all time. Time. Time. Time. 1.5s