Shame on You! - Do you shame your kids? How can we separate discipline from shaming? Ep 277

So why this topic of Shame Free parenting?
As parents, our job is to help our children meet their physical, cognitive AND emotional needs. Physical abuse or neglect is a lot easier to spot and call out. Even cognitive is easier. If the child isn’t getting to school or learning how to walk, talk, or read or socialize….it shows pretty early.
But emotional needs are just as important. They give our kids stability, self confidence, and the ability to have empathy and compassion for others.

So we want to give you some concrete ways you can parent and discipline your child without shame:

#1 Unconditional Love-Your child needs to know starting EARLY on that your love is constant and is NOT withheld if you angry with them or they have disappointed you.

#2-Keep the AWE in your home- We’ve used this acronym before and I borrowed it from another therapist but AWE stands for affection, warmth, and encouragement. Our kids can only grow with AWE in the home.

#3-As parents, you’ve got to be reliable, consistent, and  trustworthy. Those things in a parent builds security in a child. They know they can count on you. Your word means something.  You are predictable.

#4-We need to model acceptance and respect even when we disagree with their ideas or decisions-These two things have to start with us and they can’t be dependent on them giving it back to us. There will be times they don’t like us very much or like our rules. But that doesn't give us the right to stoop to their level and demean them or belittle them.
This one has been a huge issue for children struggling with gender confusion. We try and shame the child into complying with OUR values or ideals and instead push them further and further away from them. This is why many children and young adults don’t want anything to do with religion or GOD, Jesus, or church because we as his followers have done an awful job in representing Christ to them.
We’ve got to accept their feelings and their decision and respect their right to disagree or say NO.  However, You are still the parent and they also must learn to respect you.  So you don't demean their ways, but you also don't have to agree or permit them under your roof.
EX. Kids wanting another dog. Or a phone at age 10

#5-Healthy Boundaries- Boundaries are those invisible barriers we establish early to protect ourselves and our relationships. The word NO is showing a child a boundary.

#6-Give them a ton of opportunities to succeed and praise them often. Maybe they went outside their comfort zone and read outloud. Praise that. Maybe they tried out for a team but didn’t make it. Praise their effort. Again, do more praising of the effort and attitude instead of the actual accomplishment. We don’t want to raise people pleasers who feel like the only way to get your time and attention is when they accomplish something. Going back to our very first one. Show them lots of unconditional love…just because.

#7-Apologize when you fall short. You’re not going to always get this right. You’re going to have bad days. You’re going to blow it and say something you regret saying. We fall short on a regular basis and when we do…we make sure to apologize to our kids. That shows them grace. That shows them that no one is perfect.



https://rocksolidfamilies.org

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:09

Rock solid families would like to thank Hoosier Ice House for being a proud sponsor of the Rock Solid Families podcast. In the heart of historic Lawrenceburg, indiana, the Ice House is at the corner of Vine and High Streets. The historic building evokes a feeling of comfort, with spacious indoor and outdoor dining, a large bar and comfortable dining areas. Much enough to host parties, yet intimate enough to feel like your favorite neighborhood restaurant. So thank you again for the Hoosier Ice House for sponsoring the Rock Solid Families podcast.

Speaker 2: 0:49

Welcome to Rock Solid Families podcast. This is Murrell Hutchinson being joined by my lovely lady Linda. Hello, lovely lady Linda, that's a lot of L's.

Speaker 1: 0:59

Lovely lady that sounds so proper. Well, you are proper, you are proper. You usually call me an old lady. I do not call you an old lady, my old lady, I do not do that, don't even go there. That's not Well, I was told.

Speaker 2: 1:16

That was one thing my dad brought us up with us. Boys, dude, you better never refer to your wife as your old lady, and so I've never referred to you as my old lady. Sometimes, when you're joking.

Speaker 1: 1:27

I appreciate the kindness. And that does kind of have to do with our show today, because we're talking about shame and how we as parents have to encourage our children and be intentional about how we speak to them, the way we speak to them, the tone we use. So sometimes we we don't realize it when we respond to them or discipline them, that we're really shaming them. So it's an important show.

Speaker 2: 1:49

Yeah, might be guilty here.

Speaker 1: 1:51

Yeah, we are. That's why we're doing it yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:54

Are we the right? People to do this.

Speaker 1: 1:57

Yes, Okay, Because you know, we, we are all a work in progress and this is something we want to speak about and really be convicted of and do better on. You know, just growing up, I know that I struggled, being shamed as a child and I I literally turned around and did that as an adult. So that doesn't make it right, but I kind of know where it came from. So we're anyway we're going to talk about that today.

Speaker 2: 2:21

All right. So a couple of things here. We want to thank our sponsors. We want to thank Maxwell construction, we want to thank cases outdoor solutions and we'd like to thank the who's, your ice house. So I want to thank those three sponsors sponsors for coming alongside of the Rocks Olive Young podcast. So thank you guys for what you do to support what we do here. So we also have an announcement and this is our last call out, because this week, as you guys hear this, we're going to have our first annual banquet, which is specifically for rock solid families, and just one.

Speaker 2: 2:57

It's a big thank you to all those who support, but it's also an opportunity for us to get, and grow, more supporters for this ministry.

Speaker 1: 3:04

300 folks have already signed up, so we're excited about that, so it's this Thursday, and if you'd like to come March 7th 2024, if you're listening to the archives too, late but if it's this week, we'd love for you to have us.

Speaker 1: 3:15

So give us a call at our office. But why this topic of shame? Free parenting? Huh, you know, like we said, the top of the show. We see it walk through our door actually from the adults who are feeling insecure, feeling, you know, anxious, angry adults who whose core needs were not met as a child and not given that strong foundation to build off of. So it's our job as parents, you and I, you know, meeting their physical needs, cognitive needs, emotional needs.

Speaker 2: 3:42

So yeah, Well, why this topic? Well, in our work and in outside of our work, just with people in general, everybody can go back to a point in time where they would say, well, that's a scar.

Speaker 1: 3:57

That's a wound that I have.

Speaker 2: 3:59

And so something that happened in the past and a lot of times you know those things, especially when they're either significant or they start very young and they build to be significant, they start to shape actually who we become.

Speaker 2: 4:12

Maybe we lose confidence because we were always told we would never amount to something or anything, or maybe we avoid something because we just we had one bad experience or somebody shamed us from the type of experience we have. And so you know, all of a sudden you get 20, 30, 40 years down the road and you're like, yeah, it's kind of like when you tasted something bad when you were kid and you're like, you know, I'll never eat sauerkraut again. And then 30 years later, you try sauerkraut and you're like it's really not that bad, you know, but you avoid it because you had a really bad taste.

Speaker 1: 4:45

I had a client one time who was told that she was an accident, that she wasn't supposed to be here that her parents didn't intentionally decide to have her and so because of that she heard the shame of your mistake.

Speaker 1: 4:58

Even that's not the way the parents meant to say it, but the way she took it, as I'm a mistake. So physical abuse and neglect is easier to spot and call out. Cognitive is easier. If a child isn't walking or talking or reading or socializing, that's pretty easy to see too. But emotional needs are just as important and they give the child stability and self-confidence and the ability to have empathy and compassion. So you know you've talked about the emotional needs before, but we're gonna give you some concrete ways to discipline your child without shame and how to interact with them that are gonna help them in the long term.

Speaker 2: 5:33

And before we go just right into that, I wanna get you know a lot of you might be listening out there and go. I don't know if I shame my kids or not because sometimes we think about shame as being a bigger, heavy thing. And you and I talked prior to putting this show together and how we'd say we're guilty. We're guilty of shaming our kids, but in our home and maybe this will connect with you a lot of our shaming is the nagging, the repetitiveness. Just don't let it go, you just don't let it go.

Speaker 2: 6:06

You don't let it go. You keep bringing up mistakes of the past.

Speaker 1: 6:09

Well, you know what you did last year at this time so you sure we can do this.

Speaker 2: 6:13

You know, and so it's just this. No, we're not yelling and screaming at them and no, we're not calling them bad names, but it's also. You find nuggets of things that they're not quite doing exactly the way you want them to do, and you just can't let it die, and so you tend to bring it up and bring it up, and so to know whether you're really shaming your kids, you have to go back a little bit deeper and look in their eye. And so when you see that you bring up well, you know what happened last year at this time and you watch the air drift out of them like here we go again here we go again.

Speaker 1: 6:49

You know and as an adult, you and I have had this discussion that a trigger for me was I'm a clumsy person and I spill things and so as a child I was ridiculed and shamed for that Like and I was told I was clumsy and lazy and graceless, you know.

Speaker 1: 7:04

and so because of that, as an adult, when I spill something and you make fun of me or mock me, it triggers and it goes all the way back to when my mom would need to do that, and so, like she would do that to my dad too, she would shame him for spilling stuff, and so you know, it's really hard to get those stories and those lies out of your head. So the very first thing this is number one that we need to make sure we do as parents, and that is unconditionally love our kids. Your child needs to know, starting early on, that your love is constant and not withheld when they disappoint you or when you're angry with them. This is a huge part of keeping shame away, that your love is unconditional.

Speaker 2: 7:46

Sometimes, whether you say you might say it's unconditional, but sometimes the kid doesn't get the idea that it is unconditional because it's like well, until you make these grades or until you participate in this or you do that.

Speaker 2: 7:59

That I'm going to withhold just a little bit. Well, no, it's not like I don't love you. Well, it's just you withholding maybe some affection, maybe some affirmation or maybe some praise, you withholding that back. Whether the kid's right or wrong in terms of that, it's the whole understanding in their mind. Oh, I guess I'm not loved and so we kind of have to work through some of that. But the idea here that unconditional nope, no matter who you are, no matter what you do, I love you, I don't like what you do always. We have to separate those.

Speaker 1: 8:30

Yeah. So our 16 year old just asked Tex the other day and asked for something that he we had already discussed just last week that we were not going to do.

Speaker 1: 8:39

And he was asking again for it, and so I was thinking can you imagine that and so it was so funny because, as I'm writing this show, I literally wrote and I changed the start of my texts back to him and I said, buddy, I love you to pieces, but we already talked about this and the answer still is no. And so it was like I had to put that extra thing in there because I wanted him to know like this doesn't, this doesn't say anything about my love for you, but my still, my no is still no.

Speaker 2: 9:06

So yeah, because your kids will quickly confuse love and like right, love and like yeah, number two. Keep the aw. I'm gonna let you explain that because you've been using this a lot the aw in your home aw. Tell me what aw really. I stole this from a therapist. I stole it from a therapist. You can't do that.

Speaker 1: 9:25

But it stands for affection and warmth and encouragement, and so our kids can only grow in the aw of a home. So if it's all about rules and it's all about right and wrong and there's no aw, then our kids kids will maybe listen to us for a while maybe and follow us out of fear. But it's hard for many parents. But we've got to make sure that we give a lot of affection and warmth in our home. Growing up, step out of your comfort zone. Even if you didn't see this growing up I didn't see this growing up you were the first one, when you started dating me, that you started to hug my parents. When you would leave my mom and dad, I know, or especially my, my mom would cringe, did that. But then you kind of broke down the barriers and that was just what we started to do. But that would did not happen until you started coming into our home, because there wasn't a whole lot of aw, honestly, in our home you know, and something that Sometimes kids are quiet about this.

Speaker 2: 10:20

They don't, they don't release it there because maybe they came put the word to it, but they feel like there's something's missing, and I think Um, if you have older kids. Um, sometimes we run into the older kids and there's so much resentment that's built up because of the Maybe feeling of unconditional love, or maybe the constant shaming that they can't wait to get out of the house. And then they will distance themselves and then they wonder why. You know the parents can wonder why, why, why don't my kids ever contact me.

Speaker 1: 10:51

Why don't they?

Speaker 2: 10:52

ever want to be around, and so one of the blessings that I think we've been able to experience with our older sons is the fact that we we enjoy being around each other, Okay yeah but um, yeah, so if your kids go to leave and they become very distant, you might that's a conversation to say what, what?

Speaker 1: 11:09

happened here, there might not have been a lot of all number three. As parents, you've got to be reliable, consistent and trustworthy. So those things in a parent build security in a child. So they know they can count on you, that your word means something, that you're predictable. You make a commitment to model these things for your child and to show them integrity and honesty and kindness and empathy. So do them consistently, not just when people are watching or when anybody's hearing, but they need to know that this is who you are. This is your fabric.

Speaker 2: 11:37

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm going to go to number four.

Speaker 1: 11:39

Okay.

Speaker 2: 11:40

Number four we need to model acceptance and respect, even when we disagree with their ideas or their decisions.

Speaker 1: 11:47

We're not good at this one.

Speaker 2: 11:48

I struggled with our kid's hair cut or lack of hair cut, Okay, and so so in our I still in my mind, I loved our kid unconditionally. I, you know, think he's great and everything else, but in his mind, because I was not happy with his hair, I was rejecting him as a person Right.

Speaker 2: 12:11

And so, again this, we have to remember the eyes that they're seeing it through. This does not mean I stop having expectations of him, especially under my roof, Okay, but the idea that we have to help them. No, this is. It's not really about your hair. All right, I'm talking about your hair because I, frankly, I don't. I love you, but I don't have to like your hair.

Speaker 1: 12:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:33

And so these are about behaviors, right, and this, this number four here, gets into the deeper conversation when we talk about kids who consider other lifestyles, whether it's homosexuality or the transgender thing. And you know, parents oftentimes fall into the idea of well, you know, I tell them I love them unconditionally. That means I will accept what they do unconditionally. And that's not what we're saying. We accept them as people.

Speaker 1: 13:02

Right.

Speaker 2: 13:03

And we love them as a child of God. But that doesn't mean we accept every behavior that they do, and sometimes we have to put boundaries on behaviors, especially if it's if it's still in our home, right, you know, once they get out from under your roof, you know then that's, that's the, the freedom that they get.

Speaker 1: 13:18

But as they get older, we do need to give them, you know, respect of their personal space and their decisions and their things and that kind of stuff. Like our son has decided, he likes this clone that honestly gags me when we're in the car alone, you know, and so I don't want him to think like you gag me, your cologne gags me, okay. So it's important that we as parents, you know, do give our children some space to have some freedoms and some different opinions and things that we like. But yeah, it's ugh.

Speaker 2: 13:50

But I know the notice the more we talk about his cologne, the heavier he puts it on right. And so this is one of the things we're now into is shaming. This is the worst stuff. Why do you wear this stuff? And so, in his mind, you know, the rebelliousness is fine. You don't like it? I'll double it up.

Speaker 1: 14:09

But our kids thought years ago that they should have another dog when ours passed away. And so you know, we are the parents. We've decided we don't want a dog in our house. You know, you can have a dog when you move out. We will buy you your first dog, we've said so yeah so anyway, that's number four, number five yeah, this is the healthy boundaries okay.

Speaker 2: 14:27

So, with all this being said, you hear us saying we're not, we're not driving away a boundary-less environment.

Speaker 2: 14:35

We are setting boundaries, okay. And so the way that we do this, guys, when we talk about kids being scarred, oftentimes scars come from when you get blindsided, when you get hit by something you didn't see or didn't expect it. And so if, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, your kid was always expecting they'd get their driver's license when they were 16. And that's how you talked about it and everything else and out of nowhere, one day you got it under your skin that you got mad and you said you'll never drive when you're under my roof. That's the type of stuff that will create a shame to your kid, okay, and it will scar them because they didn't see it coming. However, on the other hand, if you said you know, in order to drive in our house, these are the things that you need to be aware of, whether it's having a job or paying the bills or whatever it is, but you've set the boundaries up on that and your kid always knew well, this is how we operate in our home.

Speaker 2: 15:36

And so that's a boundary that's set, and you didn't slam it in their face at the last minute and shock them with it. They knew it was coming and they lived by it, and it's a boundary that you don't have to cave on, because they understand where it came from.

Speaker 1: 15:49

But demeaning, degrading, belittling words or phrases like you stupid, or you know you always do this, or I've told you a million times and like just really, especially if you do it in front of their friends or family members, like it really is belittling to them. So, please, please, healthy boundaries emotionally, physically, spiritually is so important.

Speaker 2: 16:08

Number six yeah, so give them a ton of opportunities to succeed and praise them. Often, you know, especially as your kid is younger. We do talk oftentimes about you know you don't want to let your kid dictate your schedule and every activity they're in and everything they do, but it is important that you expose them to a lot of different things. You give them an opportunity to try different sports, do different activities and when you, because this is how you discover who they are in terms of their gifts and abilities. But they're the ones that need to discover that more than anyone.

Speaker 2: 16:42

And when you see something that they're good at, that maybe they don't necessarily get a lot of applause from the world around them. You have to be the one Remember you're their hero and when you say you know what, you do a really good job of that man that carries a lot of water with the kids. So praise them, you know, give them opportunities to do different things, and if they fail in it, if they make a mistake in it, that's not a shaming opportunity, that's to say, hey, what did we learn from it?

Speaker 1: 17:12

Nelson Mandela. I just heard this quote the other day he never lost, he never. He never lost because either won or he learned. And so you know, let those kids know it's not just about the accomplishment, it's the effort and the attitude in that, even if they tried out for a team and didn't make it so, and also remember again, unconditional, tons of unconditional love just because, not because they did something or succeeded or accomplished something. Here's the very last one, and it's probably the most important thing when it comes to how we're gonna teach them in the long term how to handle disappointment and conflict. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2: 17:46

I don't wanna say this. I don't wanna say it. Do I have to?

Speaker 1: 17:49

Yes.

Speaker 2: 17:50

Guys, this is the idea. We talked about it frequently in other situations when we're talking with our kids. Learn to and practice apologizing when you, as the parent, fall short. Okay, because you are going to fall short if you haven't already. Right. And so the idea there that you can recognize that maybe you nagged, maybe you hit them with a phrase or a name harder than it needed to be. Okay, and you recognize that it created a bit of a wound. And when you recognize that, whether they acknowledge it or not, because a lot of times they'll just swallow it and they'll just say hmm, whatever Do you remember though?

Speaker 2: 18:31

Yeah. And so when you recognize that you've done that, swallow your pride and just say you know what just came out of my mouth right there, it was wrong and I'm sorry. Okay, that does multiple things.

Speaker 2: 18:45

One, its ownership on your part, but two it lets your kid know that they see you make mistakes and you own it and you apologize, which is one of the things that's going to be a gift to them, because their pride will get in the way at some point in time as well on other things, and so they learn to apologize like you are.

Speaker 1: 19:05

Yeah, and so it shows them that no one's perfect. So, despite how many times you know you feel at times, your kids do want your approval. They do want you to please you and seeing you as a human mess up and actually helps them in the long run. Seeing their parents disagree in front of you in front of them, you know, making sure that it's not belittling or demeaning, but showing them how to repair conflict. We're not showing our kids this. So don't hide disagreements that you have, maybe as a couple, but resolve them in a healthy way, shame free, fighting, fair, so that our kids learn how to do that long term.

Speaker 2: 19:40

And one of the things I probably want to highlight when we talk about Linda you and I, we also struggle is sometimes we're all in a good mood, but we bring up somebody's shortcoming and we do it in humor, Okay.

Speaker 1: 19:55

Like we're making fun of them.

Speaker 2: 19:57

And then when we kind of see it offends them a little bit, we go, hey, we're just teasing, we're just teasing.

Speaker 2: 20:03

And again we're not saying no, never because you know part of it is developing. Your kids develop some thicker skin. We already have the snowflake generation that we've talked about at times before. But you got to recognize when you've gone too far and when you have to say you know what I did, I went too far and I apologize for that. Or in the case of huh, and I used to make fun of you when you would spill things or drop things, and because I had already I'd seen other people tease you and joke about it, I fell right in line.

Speaker 1: 20:36

And.

Speaker 1: 20:36

I honestly never knew that it was that hurtful to you, and so you had to call me out, and, like you know, it hurts it hurts when you make fun, but I had to realize where that was coming from and it came from being shamed as a child, so you know. So there you have it, our seven go-tos for shame free parenting. Like we said, from the beginning, we struggle two at times, you know but we want to work toward these things for the health of the kids, for our health, for our family. And if you need help getting along the way, you know, like we said, we're not perfect at this, but maybe it's in your marriage and how you treat your spouse and how you talk to one another. There's a lot of help and hope out there. So there's a lot of shame there. Maybe reach out, get some help and we'll be glad to walk alongside you in that.

Speaker 2: 21:18

All right. So again, we want to thank you for listening to our Rocks Out Families podcast. As Linda said, how, if you need help, reach out for it. Also, we need your help, and part of what we need your help on is to continue to support our show. Give us five star ratings, share the shows with other people that you think could maybe benefit by hearing them. Okay, and saying that, we want to thank our sponsors again Maxwell Construction, Casey's Outdoor Solutions and the Hoosier Ice House.

Speaker 1: 21:48

So I think that's got us covered. Yeah, for sure. Again, thank you so much for listening to the Rocks Out Families podcast. Building a Stronger Community, One Family at a Time. Make it a great day.

Speaker 2: 22:17

Rocks Out Families wants to thank Maxwell Construction for sponsoring the Rocks Out Families podcast. For over 30 years, maxwell Construction has been a leader in turning dreams into realities building schools, banks, restaurants and many other commercial and public facilities. Maxwell Construction has made it their priority to not just build buildings but to build into their community. So if you have any construction needs, call them at 812-537-2200. Rocks Solid Families wants to thank Casey's Outdoor Solutions for sponsoring the Rocks Solid Families podcast. Casey's has grown to be one of the largest and most unique garden centers and gift shops in the Cincinnati Tri-State area. Whether you are looking to take on that next landscape project or simply add a little home decor to your house, casey's has you covered. Located at 21481 State Line Road, lawrenceburg, indiana, call them today at 812-537-3800. Let Casey's help you add beauty to your home.