Are We Bringing People to Christ or Driving Them Away? Ep 286

Have you ever been turned off by someone's hardriving fire and brimstone evangelism.  It typically comes with great fervor and intention, but the delivery leaves a lot to be desired. 
We are currently living in a time when church participation is dropping and people are making their "own" gods to fulfill their needs.  When asked about following Jesus or being Christian they make statements like, "I tried it once and it's not for me.  If we dig down a little deeper, we often find that people had a bad experience with "church" people and they turn the other way for answers.  

In The Great Commission Jesus tells us to go and make disciples of all nations...  Yes, we are to bring people to Christ, but why are we finding ourselves driving so many people away?  The answer often comes down to our delivery over our content.  When we greet non-believers and assume they already know the Way of Christ and they should be willing to jump right onto the path, we are ignorant to their readiness to make such a jump.  

When we get onto an interstate highway, we don't just turn into 70 mph traffic.  Rather, we get the benefit of using an "on ramp" that allows us to safely merge into the faster moving traffic in order to get into the flow without getting run over.  

In bringing people to Christ, we often come across as pharisees that are moving at one speed and think everyone else should be moving at the exact same speed.  When they don't, the we often get impatient and begin to act  with contempt in our heart.  "Why can they be more like me?"  

In this show we discuss how to approach people as Christ demonstrated time and time again, with gentleness and respect.  He allowed people to be where they are and encouraged them to move to someplace better.  He helped quench their thirst with the "well of living water".  This is that thirst that all of us have. The desire to quench our understanding of our purpose and how it fits into the universe.  

If we truly want to bring people to Christ we must not get trapped in our pharisaical, self-righteous delivery of the greatest message concerning the greatest man that ever lived.   We must learn to take people where they are and move with gentleness and respect. 

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Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:16

rock solid families wants to thank casey's outdoor solutions for sponsoring the rock solid families podcast. Casey's has grown to be one of the largest and most unique garden centers and gift shops in the Cincinnati tri-state area. Whether you are looking to take on that next landscape project or simply add a little home decor to your house, casey's has you covered. Located at 21481 State Line Road, lawrenceburg, indiana, call them today at 812-537-3800. Let Casey's help you add beauty to your home. Welcome to Rock Solid Families Podcast. This is Merle Hutchinson being joined by my wife, linda. How are you today, linda?

Speaker 1: 1:09

I'm good, I'm good. No special phrases for you or anything today, just wife Linda.

Speaker 2: 1:13

How is that?

Speaker 1: 1:15

That's good, but I'm excited about this show, but I'm also it weighs heavy on me this topic and we are going to tackle a tough one today and that is really the hurt that a lot of people experience through people in the church, of the church, christians, that people they would call hypocrites or Pharisees. The church hurt people, literally walk around with that, keep them from walking in the doors of a church again. We're really going to talk about that. We tackled church hurt before in a previous show, but we're really going to talk a little bit more about the misunderstandings I think that people have toward those that are not of the faith and what our responsibility is of Christ followers.

Speaker 2: 2:10

Yeah, well, let's hover around the word Pharisee for just a second and the idea here that a Pharisee is somebody who was very religious and followed the law, and they followed the letter of the law rather than the heart of the law and the heart. When you hear lawyers speak sometimes, sometimes they say, well, what's the intent of the law?

Speaker 2: 2:35

versus following it to the letter right and so that's why you have Supreme Court hearings and things like this, because there can be a law. But then they say, let's test it to the intent of the law versus the letter of the law. And so the Pharisees really got trapped into their self-righteous thinking of, because they were smart people, they were educated people, and so everybody put them up on a pedestal. Well, if they said it, it must be right. And Jesus comes in and blows them apart right. But just because that happened back in Jesus' day and before doesn't mean it's not happening today.

Speaker 2: 3:15

It's one reason, hun, that we have so many different denominations, that people start to stand on all of these different you know, some people could say big, some people could say little, but all these different things, and they stand on them and sometimes to the point where I think we have seen in our work that people lose heart in the church because they say, well, I guess we weren't baptized correctly or I guess we didn't do this correctly, and so we're going to tackle that.

Speaker 2: 3:45

And a lot of that hun is because at our work at Rock Solid Families we deal with all denominations right. We are Christian, we are Christian right. But one of the things I think that bothers you and I the most is the number of unpracticing yeah. Unpractice. We ask them to write what their faith background is, and they'll write what it is.

Speaker 2: 4:12

And then when we get into a little discussion, or they'll even write it that they are non-practicing or unpracticing and that right there, when we delve in a little deeper, it goes back to them not feeling enough not feeling adequate, not feeling like they get it.

Speaker 1: 4:29

So, anyway, that's what we're going to get into. You said something about how they've lost hope or faith. It's really, they've lost trust in the church and church people. They've lost faith and hope in the church and church people because they've been hurt, because they've been judged or condemned. And so are we, as Christ followers, doing this well. Would Jesus be pleased with how we approach unbelievers or folks that have maybe strayed from the faith?

Speaker 1: 4:55

Sometimes we speak it out of love, but it comes across very different than loving, and so we really want to talk about that, because we were just talking with our students today at Synergy about 1 Peter 3.15, where it says that you always should be prepared to give a reason for the hope that you have, but it says at the end of that verse to do it with gentleness and respect, and so that's really a lens we want to talk about today. Are we approaching and sharing the good news, sharing the gospel, sharing our faith with others with gentleness and respect, or is it coming across pharisaical, hypocritical, judgmental condemning? That's what we're talking about today.

Speaker 2: 5:38

So hopefully you know we don't have all the answers to today's show. Okay, it's actually an observation and a conversation and if you have some input on there. Please feel free. Uh, you can reach out to us at rocksolidfamiliesorg. Uh, you know, feel free to to get a hold of us, because these are things that, as we'll talk through here today, you've got to have the door open to discussion so you can delve deeper into the intent of a matter, rather than just the letter of the law.

Speaker 1: 6:09

Yeah, I appreciate you saying that. Hon, we're not saying we have all the answers. We're just really inviting you into a conversation that we have in our office on a weekly basis and that is with someone who has fallen away or someone who's become disillusioned or wounded by the church or church people, and they really don't want to have anything to do with that and it's like wow, we've lost an opportunity and the right to be heard in their life when we do that. So we just really want to have this conversation and invite you in and really we would love to hear your thoughts on it. How do we do better? How do we do better as Christ followers loving others?

Speaker 2: 6:45

The danger is this when people feel rejected, they tend to not go with a little rejection and go. Well, I just don't get this part and they hurt me here. They tend to throw the baby out with the bathwater, they tend to throw out all of the practices and they just go. You know what?

Speaker 2: 7:02

I'm going to do my own thing and that's when we start to substitute us and other things as God, as the authority, versus God's word, and so that's why this is dangerous, guys, if we don't get this right. People don't sort of sit on the fence, they tend to go well heck with it, and that's why we had this growing unchurched population and what we call the nuns. Right, the nuns, who are people who are saying I don't proclaim anything, any faith or any religion.

Speaker 1: 7:33

Yeah, and you mentioned that, hon, and we've talked about that before that that is really the Gen Zs that they are really. If you don't agree with me, then you're against me, you hate me. And so we are dealing with that mentality, and so how do we approach that? As believers, trying to share our faith and offer that hope to others in a loving, gentle, respectful way. Yeah, all right, let's thank our sponsors, and then let's roll with this.

Speaker 2: 7:59

Okay, I want to thank Maxwell Construction, Casey's Outdoor Solutions and Hoosier Ice House. All of these are located in. Lawrenceburg, indiana, or in the Southeast Indiana area, and so if you do business with any of these businesses, please take the time to just say thanks, because we thank them. But they would even really get a bigger kick if you thank them for the type of support they give to these types of messages.

Speaker 1: 8:25

Yeah, again, we remind you, every week we actually have a monthly parenting class called Families Rock. That is located at the Lawrenceburg Firehouse. It's at the fourth Saturday of every month, and so our next one's going to be May 25th. It's 8.30 in the morning till noon. The cost is $75, but it actually is three hours worth of discussion and information, and so it's really like three sessions, and it's for anyone that really is, maybe, as couples or parents, not on the same page. Maybe you're in a divorce situation, blended family situation and co-parenting is really on the table for you. This is a great class for that, and so we would love for you to join us. You can register by going to rockcellofamiliesorg and finding the Families Rock tab.

Speaker 2: 9:12

Yeah, okay. So let's give a little background. We already gave some background, okay, but there are a couple things that when we wrote the show here, you know, whenever we write a show, we have a picture of somebody in our mind whether it's a population or actually an individual, and so we are writing this really to everyone, because the spectrum is here.

Speaker 2: 9:33

There are people who are of authority in the church who can sometimes come across as being use the word pharisaical or self-righteous, even though they'll disguise it as righteousness this is what the word says and they get into the intent of the or they I'm sorry, they get to the letter of the law, rather the intent of the law.

Speaker 2: 9:55

But this is also for us people who are just going to church, right, and so I know, hon, we got busted for this bad when we first started going to the church and got super excited and baptized and all these different things.

Speaker 2: 10:11

You're getting all this fresh knowledge and you're excited, you can't wait to share it, but you come across as anybody who doesn't agree with you, like, oh well, you need to read this, you need to read this, and you lose the seasoning that's necessary for them to actually swallow what you're trying to put down. And then it's for the people too who have already been hurt or turned away and understanding that, at least for the most part, I don't believe that most of the pharisaical talk is with bad or evil intent. I think it's actually with the intent of, yeah, we got to do whatever we can, but we want to make sure that people know that this is urgent and now, and if you don't do it exactly this way, and so they actually have good intent in their heart, but it's the delivery that lacks. So it's really for where you may be in any one of those, those seats as we speak here.

Speaker 1: 11:06

You know, as you were talking earlier, I was thinking of a passage of scripture in Second Corinthians, chapter three, where it talks about we beginning to commend ourselves again.

Speaker 1: 11:16

Like are we starting to think we're above people again.

Speaker 1: 11:26

Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you?

Speaker 1: 11:30

You yourself are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone. You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, not written with ink but with the spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but of tablets of hearts. And so he's basically saying we are the gospel, we are the good news, and we're supposed to share that good news with love and respect and gentleness, not beating their head over with a Bible or with the truth shoving it down their throat. We are our ones, and so we've got to show that through our actions, through our attitude, through our approach, that Christ is compelling, that it is something you want, and in 2 Corinthians it actually says that to some we are the aroma of life, but to others we are the stench of death, and so, yeah, some of the people are going to reject it, but we want, as much as it's in our control, to be an aroma that attracts people and makes it compelling to want to be involved with.

Speaker 2: 12:37

Yeah, so, han, that's good stuff there, that whole idea of we are the deliverers really to the next generation, even though the Bible carries the word. The Bible would typically just sit on a table and be dusty if it weren't for people delivering the message out of the Bible to the next person. So not too many people would just randomly out of nowhere pick it up and say what is this thing? Let me learn, and all of a sudden grasp it and understand it.

Speaker 1: 13:05

So it's us people. Yeah, do you remember that song we sang when you and I were on the Emmaus team? We would sing it round after round after round, and the gospel in one word is love.

Speaker 2: 13:18

Yeah, and so yeah, and that's really the point of this here. The idea first off. If you say you're going to be Christian, then we have to understand well, what does that mean? That means to be a follower of Christ, and what does that mean? Because he's not here in the flesh anymore, so it's not like I can go find him somewhere, but he's actually.

Speaker 2: 13:42

we are called to follow his way the way that he sets out to live life, Okay, and so, uh, yeah, that that song. Um, I'm not going to sing that whole thing, but it's love, love, love the gospel in one word is love, love thy neighbor as thy brother, love, love, love. And so that whole idea, guys, guys, is if you understand that love is the core of this. But we have to go one step farther, hon, because here in our culture we really mess with the word love.

Speaker 1: 14:14

Oh, yeah, yeah, I love French fries and I, you know, I love spaghetti. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:19

So, as we speak of what love, what we're ultimately having and trying to do here in the church and in our homes and our marriage, it really comes out of 1 Corinthians, and we've seen this at weddings and other places. 1 Corinthians 13, 4 through 8 says so. If you want to know what love is right, If you want to know what the way of Christ is, it's love is or agape agape is patient and is kind.

Speaker 2: 14:46

Love does not envy or boast, it is not arrogant or rude, it does not insist on its own way, it is not irritable and resentful, it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. And I think that's important too, hon, because sometimes people can think, well, we're just supposed to let people do whatever they want, and it's like no, we are to speak the truth, but it's all other things that frame it, the kindness and the love behind it.

Speaker 1: 15:21

Yeah, we're not asking you to water down the truth. We're asking about check the delivery, check the attitude behind it. Is it coming across condemning or judgmental? Because when you tell them you're wrong, oh gosh, when you look at someone and say your faith is wrong or your decision like, that's saying that my way is better than yours and instead it's like well, what does God's Word say? You know, let's go, let's open. I loved Harvey Bream. He was the president of the Bible College and one of my co-workers and one of my professors. But I remember him saying when someone is questioning or challenging, I'll say get out your Bible, get out your Bible.

Speaker 1: 16:01

It's not like I have this tricky Bible that's going to trick you. Get out your Bible and let's look.

Speaker 1: 16:05

You got to know the word right you got to know where to go and how you're going to approach it, but in a way of, hey, I get it. This is hard, this is different, especially if your family was raised in a different way than what you're learning now, because so many people feel like that really contradicts or condemns what my family did and we're like, no, you're building off of what your family did and you know that's, that's okay.

Speaker 2: 16:34

Yeah, but it's hard. As you're talking, I'm thinking too about the actual audience that you're speaking to. You have to understand the audience that you're speaking with. If I was in one of my men's Bible studies and I know the depth that these guys are at and where they come from in their backgrounds. And I looked at one of those guys and I said I think you've got that wrong, or more likely they would look at me and say I think you've got that wrong.

Speaker 2: 17:02

That's something you can pull off because you know how you're wrestling, you kind of know the rules of the game and you're doing. Everybody understands intent, but when you are opening up to the masses, you have no idea what their levels of understanding and faith, background and histories are, and so you have to. You know I think some preachers could be upset by this you don't water it down, you don't candy coat it, but you better watch the depth that you go to so that you can give people a chance to start to eat versus.

Speaker 1: 17:35

You know being, you know, poured down their throat to eat versus you know being you know, poured down their throat, shutting them down. You and I have had that situation where we have been either working with you know somebody that walks in our door and literally just Googled us right and so we have had to learn how to be diplomatic, in our truth, telling okay, we had to do it with respect and gentleness, and we can't shove it down their throat. We can't look at them and say you're wrong, you're going to say well, how's that working for you?

Speaker 1: 18:03

Where do you get that value? Where do you get that truth? Show me.

Speaker 2: 18:07

Show me where you get that.

Speaker 1: 18:08

Well, it's just always the way I learned, and so we're hoping to build a relationship so that we earn the right to be heard and to share what we learned and where we learned it. But, man, you can't come off that way with a coworker or a family member or a neighbor and expect it to be received well.

Speaker 2: 18:27

Yeah, yeah, that delivery is so important. Right, and the terms here that we're looking at is the Pharisees would get into a self-righteousness versus a righteousness, and so righteousness is a moral rightness and acceptability, and especially under the eyes of God.

Speaker 2: 18:45

And so it follows God's nature, it follows God's way and so in God's way, it would be right. And so self-righteousness is somehow me putting my slant on it. Well, from my perspective, this is what I think, and you'll hear that in conversations and I've been guilty. Right, it's when you're in a Bible study and you don't quite know all the answers and you go. Well, I think it means this we have to be really careful with that right, because sometimes you can take it down a road that it shouldn't go down.

Speaker 1: 19:18

Yeah, I remember, hon, when we started to attend a Christian church a non-denominational Christian church and I was very thankful for the approach of the leadership and the preacher and just how he was kind, gentle, respectful but, speaking truth, right.

Speaker 1: 19:35

So I think I would have been like one and done if he would have looked at me and said you're wrong, right. So I think I would have been like one and done if he would have looked at me and said you're wrong, right. Or if you know, you looked at somebody and said you've had this all wrong this whole time and so I had to figure that out on my own. I had to come to that understanding and, you know, decision based on what I was hearing and seeing and reading from God's Word Right, I was just going to say from your own study and then understanding of it.

Speaker 1: 20:03

Yeah, and I was so thankful for the many, many people who were so patient with me, letting me ask questions, letting me dig deeper, and that really was attractive. If somebody had shoved it down my throat and said you need to believe this now, I would have been like out of here, you know, yeah, man, it just didn't work.

Speaker 2: 20:21

I think back of those early Bible studies when we were new to our faith and some of the people who just did incredible work on us and we didn't even quite know that they were doing great work, because they didn't. They were not judgmental. We came from a different background than what you know these folks were coming from from a different background than what you know these folks were coming from and not, like I remember, thinking, okay, guys, this is probably a stupid question. But yeah, and there were no stupid questions.

Speaker 2: 20:47

There was no judgment. There was never once. Well, you've got that wrong. This is how it is, and so I really appreciate those guys and I think it's one big reason why we approach things the way we want to here in our work, because we get people from all kinds of backgrounds.

Speaker 1: 21:02

Yeah, and so, again, I'm not saying to not speak the truth, but we don't have to tell someone what that means, because this is what God's word says. That means you're wrong.

Speaker 1: 21:14

Let them figure that out, right, whether it be on marriage. You know, yes, we're going to say and we believe this here at Rock Solid that God ordained marriage to be between a man and a woman, right, and so we're going to believe that, we're going to speak out of that. But we're not going to look at you and go, that means you're wrong. Right, you're living together, okay, and so we know there's a lot of cohabitation going on and so. But we lose the right to be heard if we look in them and say you're going to hell because you're living together. You know that's one of many sins that God condemns in his word, and so we want to say, okay, let's build a relationship and earn that right to speak truth, and let them realize, come to conviction, that this is wrong.

Speaker 2: 22:02

Yeah, and just like anything, when it becomes their idea, they'll run with it. But gosh, I think of all the hot button issues that you and I deal with. I mean, whether it's marriage, whether it's baptism, whether it's sex before marriage. Whether it's politics or money, all of these different things, man can just light people up.

Speaker 2: 22:21

And the Bible for the most part, the Bible speaks to all of these things and the thing that we're able to do one because of our age, but two because of the work that we do we actually get to see at our age how things have worked out, when people do it their way Right, and we no longer have to say, you know, well, that's wrong. Because we can actually say, hey, you know, let's, let's see how that's really going to work out. And you can look at these histories whether it is living together before marriage, whether it is divorce, like all of these things. You can look back and you can go. Now you see why God made this statement. He didn't make this statement just because he wanted to fold his arms and say you better follow these rules. He makes these statements because he knows that when we go against them, people will get hurt and he's trying to protect us from hurting ourselves.

Speaker 1: 23:16

So what can we do, honey? What can we do? You know, like I said, we don't have all the answers, but we're having this discussion about how do we love people where they're at. You know. Yeah, there's a difference between accepting someone and agreeing with somebody. That's right, Okay. Accepting them is saying hey, I get where you're at.

Speaker 2: 23:35

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:35

Okay, I know this is what you believe, or this is what you're doing. Okay, and I'm going to accept you, because sometimes the opposite of accepting is rejecting.

Speaker 2: 23:44

Especially in today's world.

Speaker 1: 23:46

Yes, and so some people believe that if you don't accept me, then you reject me, and so we've got to remember that.

Speaker 2: 23:52

Or if you don't accept a behavior of mine.

Speaker 1: 23:54

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:54

Okay, then you automatically must not like me.

Speaker 1: 23:57

And again accepting the person, okay, and then following along with, like, okay, let's walk alongside each other. So what can we do to show that we are loving and accepting and, you know, patient with people who don't agree with us?

Speaker 2: 24:14

Well, the first thing that comes to mind is just in a simple phrase love the sinner, hate the sin. That sounds cliche, but the first thing is for us, as the people who are trying to help people, is to not get trapped into all of a sudden casting this person out because of a behavior that they're doing, whether it is homosexuality, whether it's drugs and drinking or whatever. It is like not automatically to throw everything about that person out, but to say, hey, you know, listen, we're in the trenches here with you. So the first thing is you know, when you're working with somebody, always remember that they are a person not to be identified by their sin.

Speaker 2: 24:54

They are far bigger than their sin.

Speaker 1: 24:56

Yeah, actually, I'm glad you mentioned that because I did the training through the Eve Center, which is a no-cost peer counseling for women, and through our training we have all different kinds of women that walk through our door, including some in a homosexual lifestyle, and so we addressed this topic and it was so interesting how the Eve Center approached it and how I believe we we should approach it is.

Speaker 1: 25:21

Let's not make that the sole conversation Like. Let's talk about the whole person and what that whole person needs and let's not be a one topic parent or one topic friend. Okay, because if you can go around into the other topics, the other things that are hurting them and they're struggling with, you may get to the same conclusion that this is causing the problem. But don't make that the focus of your relationship because that really just isolates and kind of alienates you. But, man, it has worked. I have seen it work where, if you're not going to harp on that, like cohabitation for example, we have a lot of couples who are cohabitating and when we get to the core of, hey, what's going to be healthy for you, they come to the conclusion that man, the way we're living isn't healthy.

Speaker 2: 26:12

Yeah, another thing that we can do is I say this all the time when people come in thing that we can do is I say this all the time when people come in the most dangerous thing that you and I brought in today- to this session is our opinion.

Speaker 2: 26:25

And so teaching people to direct their decision-making through God's word rather than through their own word or somebody else's words, because those don't necessarily line up with God's word. And God's word is, you know, what we believe is the ultimate authority of rightness. And so, as Harvey said, you know, hey, we don't pull out your Bible, let's just take a look at it and see what this says.

Speaker 1: 26:50

But that's a good point though. Honey, if they don't believe God's word is the ultimate authority, then you're really on different planes and different playing fields. Word is the ultimate authority, then you're really on different planes and different playing fields.

Speaker 1: 26:59

So don't expect them to follow your way, god's way, because they don't believe in God's way. And so you've got to realize sometimes you're going to have to agree to disagree, and the very first thing would be to help them to maybe come to that understanding that God's word would be a great source of wisdom and guidance and strength. But if they don't want to believe that, then you know you're going to have a very difficult time.

Speaker 2: 27:26

You and I have had many, many cases where we do come to that standoff of you and I are not going to budge on God's word and they're not going to budge on maybe their lifestyle or whatever they're doing, and at that point you know they may walk out, they may be done with us, but hopefully we planted a seed.

Speaker 1: 27:46

We planted a seed. If we're respectful and gentle, Exactly, If we're.

Speaker 2: 27:49

That's my point. So the idea hopefully we planted a seed because we didn't beat it over their head, but we said, hey, you know, it's just something for you to think about.

Speaker 1: 27:56

Yeah, and we have had people come back around to us much later and said man, you know I'm sorry that I walked away or I'm sorry that you know. Now I realize what you're trying to tell me.

Speaker 2: 28:07

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:08

And sometimes it takes some hard days, some hard things before they realize it.

Speaker 2: 28:11

Yeah, the next thing hon really is to wrap yourself into the definition of agape, agape love, because, as we said earlier in the show, we have destroyed the word love, and so agape love has nothing to do with romance and kissing and sex and all these things that we define love by. Instead, you know, it's that whole idea that you care for somebody, that you would put somebody in front of you, that you would sacrifice for them.

Speaker 2: 28:43

Okay, and so it doesn't even mix in the word like like you don't have to like somebody to show them that that you would care for them, that you would take care of them in a time of need, and so that's the type of love we're talking about, and that's why, when you're in a session, you might completely disagree with somebody, but you don't have to be rude and nasty and cast them out. You're still saying hey, you know what I'm in this with you. I care about how this is working out?

Speaker 1: 29:10

How many times do we see stories in the Bible of Jesus loving that way? Whether it be the adulterous woman, the woman at the well, you know, the tax collector, I mean. Over and over again. He's literally looking at the Pharisees, saying, are you going to throw the first stone? And then he's like, you know, go and sin no more. So he's saying like, leave that lifestyle. But he's not condemning them, he's not judging them and that's what wins them over Like wow, he knew everything.

Speaker 2: 29:38

I did and he still loved me.

Speaker 1: 29:40

That's agape.

Speaker 2: 29:42

Yeah, and he would continue to forgive them, right we're told to keep on forgiving seven times 77, right. And so the idea is just like. This is something that, until we take our last breath, Christ says we keep going for those people, that's, the lost sheep. And so we don't want to give up on people, even though that can be exhausting, because in our mind we can be like they're never going to get it.

Speaker 1: 30:06

So I would encourage churches, church leaders, to invite conversation, but not as the open, to invite conversation, but not as the open big group conversation, but invite people who disagree, invite people who are struggling with maybe something that was preached or taught from the stage to say, hey, come meet with me, we would love to have those hard conversations with you so that they hear your heart, they know your intent, you can hear their heart, you can hear their questions and you can see that gentleness and respect being back. It's hard when it's being done either from a pulpit or from a stage or from Zoom. So please try to invite those conversations, those hard topics, and do it with gentleness and respect.

Speaker 2: 30:51

Yeah Hon, I think something that we're always called to keep in mind is when you start to get a little judgy that you are to look at the plank in your eye rather than the speck in theirs. Matthew 7, 1 through 5. And we've talked about that many times, and that's that critical, judgmental part of us like at least, I'm not you.

Speaker 1: 31:13

Yeah, that we look like we are above.

Speaker 2: 31:15

Yeah, yeah and so I do find that if, if you start picking on people a lot and you look at their bad, you will get statements like well, yeah, but what? What about you when you do? This they'll start looking for the junk in your eye, and so it becomes this whole thing of everybody looking for each other to fail right Versus trying to be encouraging like hey, let's all get on the same team here and let's all do better.

Speaker 1: 31:40

So, as we close out this show, we wanna leave you with this final thought okay, and remember, the church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints, and Jesus himself reminds us that in the gospels.

Speaker 2: 31:54

I've heard that phrase before.

Speaker 1: 31:56

Mark 2, verse 16 and 17,. When the teachers of the law, who were Pharisees, saw him, jesus, eating with the sinners and the tax collectors, they asked his disciples why does he eat with the tax collectors and sinners? And on hearing this, jesus said to them it is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners. And so let's create communities where everyone feels welcome to come, as they are broken and all and people can be transformed, and they can not be expected to be transformed to the way of Christ before they even know the ways of Christ. Right, you're not going to earn the right to be heard if you lead with judgment and condemnation.

Speaker 2: 32:39

Yeah, yeah. So, guys, hopefully the show here, depending on what seat you are sitting in, whether you are of some level of authority in a church or position where you're working with people, or maybe you're somebody who's been hurt okay, or maybe you're somebody who's just hurt okay, or maybe you're somebody who's just in your faith and you find yourself in conversation with friends or whatever. If we're going to truly do God's word justice, we have to handle it well and that's what Christ is asking us to do. Handle it well. We really have to use the seasoning and know who your audience is. We really have to use the seasoning and know who your audience is, know where you're speaking.

Speaker 2: 33:18

You know, big church versus little church, a very intense counseling session versus just speaking to your friends, like these are different things that we have to be aware of when we're having these conversations.

Speaker 1: 33:28

And if you have been hurt by the church or a churchgoer you know, or a Christian somebody called themselves a Christ follower we're sorry and I pray that you would continue to seek him out and seek his followers out because, you're right, we have done a really bad job sometime representing him well.

Speaker 1: 33:48

And so we're sorry. We're sorry for your hurt, we're sorry for how you have felt judged and condemned. Sorry for your hurt. We're sorry for how you have felt judged and condemned. That's not who Christ wants us to be. That's not who he is, and so that's not what his word says. So please keep pursuing him. He wants that relationship with you, and there are good people out there who want to love you like Christ loves us.

Speaker 2: 34:08

Yeah, all right. So, guys, if we can help you in any of your walk we certainly don't know it all, but we know who does and so if we can be of any assistance in that, please reach out to us. You can call our office at 812-576-ROCK, that's 7625. You can reach us also out at our website at rocksolidfamiliesorg. You know, these are things where we don't want you to throw all of God's Word out because something didn't make sense to you or somebody delivered it in a way that was hurtful. There's so much more to benefit you out of the righteousness of His Word, so don't get all tangled up in the weeds here.

Speaker 1: 34:50

And, by the way, the people that hurt you. They're just sinners too, in need of a Savior. So we're all, as my grandfather used to say, the ground is level at the foot of the cross. And so we all need a Savior. We all are broken and fall short of the glory of God and thankfully, through Him we all can be redeemed. So we thank you so much for listening to the Rock Salad Families podcast. Building a stronger community one family at a time.

Speaker 2: 35:30

Make it a great day. Rock Solid Families wants to thank maxwell construction for sponsoring the rock solid families podcast. For over 30 years, maxwell construction has been a leader in turning dreams into realities, building schools, banks, restaurants and many other commercial and public facilities. Maxwell construction has made it their priority to not just build buildings, but to build into their community.

Speaker 1: 36:00

So if you have any construction needs, call them at 812-537-2200 rock solid families would like to thank hoosier ice house for being a proud sponsor of the rock solid families podcast. In the heart of historic lawrenceburg, indiana, the ice house is at the corner of vine and high streets. The historic building evokes a feeling of comfort, with spacious indoor and outdoor dining, a large, large bar and comfortable dining areas. Large enough to host parties, yet intimate enough to feel like your favorite neighborhood restaurant. So thank you again for the Hoosier Ice House for sponsoring the Rock Salad Families podcast.