Rock Solid Families
Rock Solid Families
Does Therapy Really Work? Ep 298
If you go to the car shop your mechanic is going to diagnose your car with visual observation, measurement, and even computer diagnostic equipment. When he is finished, he's going to have a pretty good idea of what's wrong with the car. When you go to the doctor because your're not feeling well, they are going to begin the diagnostic process with blood work, scans, and monitoring equipment to get the best feedback possible to make their diagnosis. Perfect? No, but much more reliable than what you're going to see in the mental health field.
This is not to blame mental health professionals. Most are doing the best they can with what tools they have. Mental health simply lacks pure testing processes and equipment to deliver reliable diagnosis.
With that being stated, we have seen an explosion of people seeking mental health therapy in the last 20 years. Children, men, women, couples, you name it, they're trying it. But more recently the results have been scrutinized. Is the therapy truly being effective? The answer is not clear cut. In fact, way too often there is little to no benefit, and even more harm than good. For this reason people should take a closer look at therapy and know what to look for and what their part of the process is in order for a greater chance of success.
In this show, Merrill and Linda unpack the difference between Counseling and Coaching. They discuss the importance of getting the right therapist for the right job. The discuss the hard work that is required of the client in order to move towards healing. They also talk about the most powerful healer in the room, God. They remind us that God wants better for us, but we have to want to include him on the process. This is where our humility or coachability come in. ARE YOU COACHABLE?
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Well, welcome to the Rock Solid Families podcast. This is Merle Hutchinson, alongside of my coach, my therapist, and my wife, linda Hutchinson.
Speaker 2:Wait a second, you don't pay me enough to have all those titles.
Speaker 1:Well, I have to wait to see the final results to see if you're worth being paid what's up.
Speaker 2:Oh goodness, we're both in trouble.
Speaker 1:But it does kind of segue into our conversation today.
Speaker 2:Right, what are we talking about?
Speaker 1:So we're going to ask a question that probably this puts us at great risk.
Speaker 2:We might be out of our job. We might be out of a job.
Speaker 1:The question is does therapy really work? And we brought this up because, well, there's some really good books that have been written recently, and articles even that we've come across. This up because, well, there's, there's some really good books that have been written recently, um, and articles even that we've come across. And the question really does and we're going to examine those a little bit deeper. But the question really is is like is it worth the time, is it?
Speaker 2:worth the money.
Speaker 1:Does it really work? It's so different working with people. You know like right now my truck's in the shop.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is.
Speaker 1:And hopefully they're going to go through and they're going to diagnose and assess and they're going to be able to see, oh, the water pumps cracked or this bearings out, or you ran it out of oil, or, but they're going to be able to assess and it's going to be very factual, right, working with people. It's not that way at all.
Speaker 2:No and it's messy.
Speaker 2:It's messy and you know this is a great place, hun. I think to explain, we get to ask this question a lot what's the difference between what we do, which we call faith-based coaching, and licensed therapy? And so therapy does require a license that each state is different, a license that each state is different. So that's why sometimes you can't cross over and do like virtual with somebody from another state, because their license doesn't cover that state. And so we my master's is in pastoral counseling, yours is in school counseling and so there is a different license for clinical community counseling or clinical therapy, and so our technique and personalities really gear more toward the coaching process, and so that's what we do. We never claim that we're going to diagnose or give a treatment plan. We are going to do more problem solving. We're going to do more action-oriented, forward-thinking, right, situational, result-driven, and so we want to also be able to freely put our faith component into this work, and we don't apologize for it, we don't hide it. Respect we respect where people are right.
Speaker 2:But we make sure they know that God and His Word are going to be the foundation of everything we do in our office, which is rock-solid families right.
Speaker 1:Jesus is the rock, yeah, and I also think we're not saying that one's better than the other. We're saying this is what we do because it fits us. There is definitely a place for both sides. The therapist, I mean.
Speaker 1:We need people who have the training and they understand the medical side of things and to be able to say you know, somebody's suffering from schizophrenia or or bipolar or whatever, and then if medicines and things like that are involved, and so that's way, way, uh, out of our league, above our pay grade type thing, and so it's not like one is better than the other, it's more of what's the appropriate tool yeah right, what's the appropriate tool for what you're trying to get done, and so, um, they both have their place.
Speaker 1:For us is coaching, but what we really want to talk about hun is like well, the weather therapy in general, okay, and so we could talk about coaching as a therapy. We could talk about going to a therapist or counselor. Does the process? Itself work right is it going to be okay for?
Speaker 2:me to go kind of including our stuff in this too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Because we've seen what we do sometimes doesn't work Right. This is not a perfect science by any means, but before we go any farther, let's thank our sponsors. We want to thank Maxwell Construction, casey's Outdoor Solutions and the Hoosier Ice House for coming alongside of Rock Solid Families and the Hoosier Ice House for coming alongside of Rock Solid Families. I'm going to also say, hey, we just came off of the we're on the tail end of a celebration that we just had the other day, really thanking all of our sponsors and our supporters and everything.
Speaker 1:And you know, guys, you need to know that Rock Solid Families only exists because people like our sponsors and you donors out there that you not just give us a thumbs up but you pray for us, you support our events and you support us financially. And so it's because of that that we're over six years old now and we've had over 6,000 sessions. I think you said the other day, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we did. We gathered our partners and our sponsors together and we just wanted to celebrate them. We wanted to thank them right and despite the threat of severe weather, because it was kind of an outdoor-indoor event.
Speaker 2:We still had a great turnout and we had a great night, and we just want to appreciate and thank all of you for listening and sharing our shows and supporting what we do. You know, this is definitely—we're swimming upstream supporting what we do. This is definitely we're swimming upstream. We are a minority to be a faith-based, christian-based organization that believes that God and His Word are important and should be the foundation of marriages and families and lives, and so that is something that we really have to fight for.
Speaker 2:And so the people that were there last night were really saying we believe in this, and our sponsors are saying we believe in this, and so, yes, over the past six years, we've had 6,000 coaching sessions. We have worked with 1,200 families and just in the past six months we've had 225 different families.
Speaker 2:Half of those were existing from the previous year that continued and rolled over into 2024. And then half of those are new, brand new families that have said we need help. And so if that's you, if you are just learning about what Rock Salad Families does or who we are, check us out at rocksaladfamiliesorg. We have our new adolescent specialist, which we introduced last night and we're going to have on our show next week, and so we're excited.
Speaker 1:Does she know that? Yet Nothing like baptism by fire. Does she know what a roast is?
Speaker 2:No, but she really is. She's coming on board. She's an amazing part of our team already. She'll be working with our teenage girls, our young adult women, young moms, single moms, all those things, and so I think she's a licensed social worker and she brings great qualities and some experience there that we're really going to need.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, looking forward to that show All right, so let's get into. Does therapy?
Speaker 2:really work.
Speaker 1:And so I actually, because I I do want to talk a little bit about what research is showing and what other experts are weighing in on, because you and I, we definitely do want to talk about what we actually see, right, because we are boots on the ground and in real life. But it's not just what we see. And so this is an article from Time Magazine from August 28th 2023. Last year, last year, just a year ago, from Jamie DeCharma. I think I'm saying that right and I'm just going to read a little part of it just so that you can see it's not our words. The US has reached peak therapy.
Speaker 1:Counseling has become fodder for hit books, podcasts, uh-oh and movies, professional athletes, celebrities and politicians routinely go public with their mental health struggles, and everyone is talking, correctly or not, in the language of therapy, peppering conversations with references to gaslighting, toxic people and boundaries. All this mainstream awareness is reflected in the data, too. By the latest federal estimates guys listen to this about one in eight us adults now takes an antidepressant and one in five has recently received some kind of mental health care An increase of almost 15 million people in treatment since 2002. Even in the recent past, from 2019 to 2022, use of mental health services jumped by almost 40 percent among US adults with commercial insurance, according to a recent US study in the JAMA.
Speaker 2:Health Forum which is pretty reputable right. General American Medical Association, yeah, and so 40%, yeah. I mean, look at those numbers, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:You can just think, like back when our parents were our age now, like it was a rare bird for somebody to ever go. I mean they were weird or strange or different right and so and so it's. Has the pendulum swung so far the other way that? Now everybody's hopping on the roller coaster to ride, and so we really need to talk about why. And then what's happening out of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're seeing a social contagion and so, again, please hear us, we are not saying that we should throw all therapy out the window.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:No one needs help. Okay, please, you're not hearing that from us Absolutely. We're not throwing the baby out with the bathwater is your famous?
Speaker 1:phrase. All the time we could say that yeah.
Speaker 2:But you know, I also got done reading a book and I think I've mentioned it before by Abigail Shire called Bad Therapy, and she takes this topic head on.
Speaker 2:I mean, she's a journalist that has done a ton of research as well and, to be honest, she's seeing what we're seeing in this ministry and that is sometimes we go overboard in diagnosing and treating and talking about our feelings so much that we make everything, we catastrophize things, we make everything diagnosable, we make everything treatable with medication. And so listen to this Gen Z's mental health is worse than that of the previous generation, she says. Youth suicide rates are climbing.
Speaker 2:Antidepressant medications for children are common and prolific, prolific, prolificate of mental health diagnosis has not helped the staggering number of kids who are lonely, lost, sad and fearful of growing up. Shire argues that the problem is not the kids, it's the mental health experts, and she especially kind of goes on and on about the school counselors which I know you were and Bridget was, and I think it's because we're not doing our job at home as parents.
Speaker 2:These school counselors and these administrators are trying to fill in the gap, like teaching character qualities, helping them stress and coping skills. These are things that we should have been teaching our kids at home when they were young, and instead we're taking them to a doctor and we're saying fix them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or the counselor is trying to help fill in the gap and, man, it's not going well, and I will go back to the school counselors.
Speaker 1:It is, I was probably pushing back. You know, sometimes I am a little rebellious, you are. Sometimes I make you mad because I push back. Um, and I only push back when it doesn't feel right.
Speaker 1:And when I was, uh, counseling at the school. Uh, we were getting all kinds of stuff that was starting to bombard us about all of these different things that kids need and what's wrong with kids, and and hon, you've heard me saying that's why. So often you hear me say like I get that the kid is struggling, but we got to get to the parent. If you're going to leave it up to me and the teachers to tell you exactly what's wrong with your kid and how to fix them, we're missing a main component here, and so so much of this work is in the parenting realm. It isn't, and so that was a big push for me, always like, yeah, I'll spend some time with your kiddo, but I really want mom and dad in here, because this is where we can really get some effective work done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and honestly, and we're just going to call it out, I think it came from this gentle parenting approach of never making things hard on our kids, never saying no to our children, definitely. Always always fixing it and saving him and rescuing the rescue parent.
Speaker 1:And then when you can't you go, go. There must be something wrong. Yeah, I don't get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's where the diagnosis comes yeah, and so I think we've just lost the reason. We've talked about this before the resiliency. Our kids don't know how to do hard things, they don't know how to hear the word no or be disappointed or, you know, not get the trophy, or things like that. And so us, as parents, are responsible for just really these snowflakes that are melting at the first problem. And so what our answer is? We go to therapy, and so we really try to minimize the amount of children that come in our office. I'm not saying we don't ever work with a child or a teen, but we're saying is a lot of times it is coming from either the poor coping skills or the lack of boundaries, or the permissiveness, or your own anxiety or depression that maybe you as a parent haven't handled well.
Speaker 1:That's where we need to start and and I'm going to say again, you already said hon, we are speaking in generalities. There are definitely cases where we say no, you know, this is out of out of the parents league or education and understanding, and there is a time and place for help. So you have to hear us. We are not saying no. What we're saying is is not so much right, not so much and not so quick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have so many more resources within yourself to do this well, and so that's. We want to actually bolster the parent here.
Speaker 2:We want to build them up so that they can be better and stronger at helping their kids do well and really the population at large right, yeah, I mean we are talking about children in this second, and so I would just encourage you as a parent that find a mentor, find a youth pastor, find a coach, somebody that will also pour into your child and give them another place to talk or to work through hard things. And so if you are the only person that they're leaning on or going to, then you need to beef up their yard, you need to help them have other people that they can lean in and talk to and so that they have bad days, they have somebody, and it doesn't have to be a therapist.
Speaker 1:Right, right, that's for sure. Yeah, it used to be grandma or grandpa. Yeah, it used to be the neighbor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or aunt and uncles, or big brothers, big sisters, and it's just we don't have that support system that community around us, and it's partly because we've lost the whole church community.
Speaker 1:That's a big part.
Speaker 2:I'm just going to give a plug to the church community. We need a faith family that can be there, and it takes a village right. We've already leaned into that quite a bit recently, and so we need those other voices in our children's lives. When we adopted our three youngest children, I'll never forget I was working in a church that was kind of further away from our home community, and so our kids weren't able to make friends with people in their school and in their neighborhood, and so we moved back closer to another church so that we would be worshiping and doing life with their coaches, their bus drivers their classmates and that has made a huge difference to help them create that community around them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's get into some more helpful thoughts and mindsets about how you can proceed forward with helping yourself, your kids or whoever else is at hand here. But, hun, I want to start with reading a little scripture.
Speaker 2:One of my favorites.
Speaker 1:Because this is some of you may not want to hear this okay. But I think this is really the root of a whole lot of what we're talking about. This is John 5, verses 6 through 9. When Jesus saw him lying there and learned that he had been in this condition for a long time. So this is an invalid who's basically laying by the pool and people walk by him all the time and he can't get healed.
Speaker 2:Yes, he had been laying by this healing pool for 38 years and he was paralytic. Okay, he was an invalid and so he was not getting well.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And so he's laying by this pool for a long time. And Jesus asked him I mean this is such a smart question, do you want to get well? Now? I mean that's a big duh, right, but is it a big duh? Because getting well requires a few things, and this is where he goes next. You're right, he says, sir. The invalid replied I have no one to help me into the pool when the water is stirred. While I am trying to get in, someone else goes down ahead of me. Then Jesus said to him get up, pick up your mat and walk. And at once the man was cured. He picked up his mat and he walked. And so we're not trying to simplify things, guys. We're not trying to say that if you have cancer, you just get up and walk, right. What we're saying is that you have to have a belief that there you can do something versus. He thought the water was going to cure him. He thought other people should carry him down, right.
Speaker 1:And excuse after excuse, right, right, and and there's is that victim status, right, and a lot of it comes from not having the energy to know what to do. A lot of it comes from just ignorance, right, but what we're saying first and foremost is you've got to be hungry. You've got to be hungry to say I got to figure this out, I've got to do something. And praying is huge, right, lord, help me, I'll do anything here. Help me to do this, but to start digging and then start actually taking the steps, start taking the steps to do what you need to do. So that's a big mind shift right off the get-go.
Speaker 2:So, when we work with couples, there's one exercise when it comes to personal stress that we do, and you literally take all of the stressors that are in your life and you put them into one of four boxes, and one of them is high priority and high ability to do something about it.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's one box. The other box is high priority and you don't have any control over it. Okay, another box is low priority and I could do something about it. And the fourth box is low priority and I can't do anything about it. Right, and so we really do break down some of this and go okay, what's in my control? What do I have the ability to do something about? How can I get well? Okay, instead of just saying I can't do anything, I'm a victim, right? Or feel paralyzed or stuck.
Speaker 2:That's where Jesus says do you want to get well? And so that's really the first question we want to ask you is whatever reason why you're watching the show today, okay, if there is something, a situation, where you're kind of wondering should I go to therapy, should I go to a coach, the question we want to ask you is do you want to get well? Because if you do, then God is going to walk alongside you and he is going to equip you and he is going to bring people around you, but you've got to make that decision. You always ask that question. What's that question? Are you coachable? Are you coachable?
Speaker 1:So yeah, All right, so let's get in. So you got the mindset, hopefully that mindset of okay, there's a belief and work to get ready, to do Okay, and so here's a real practical thing that I think is so important. I was getting ready, to say, go to look through the yellow books, the yellow pages, but those days are gone. But you could just go therapist I need a therapist near me and go, I'll do that one.
Speaker 1:And it's a bit dangerous, I wouldn't say to never do that. I mean, it is a starting place, but the idea here is you got to find the right therapist or coach. That carries a lot of weight with you, and so there's a question here is should you like your coach?
Speaker 1:or your therapist and the answer to that is, yeah, you really should. You really should. Do you have to love them, right? Do you have to be in some kind of relationship that way? No, but you better like them. In other words, you better click, you better click. And you and I find this so often, hon, that we have you can tell in chemistry back and forth where, if they're putting off a coldness, or maybe we're putting off a coldness, maybe we're not buying what they're selling right and we shut that down and we're not clicking, and right away effectiveness is greatly diminished.
Speaker 1:It doesn't mean you could be a genius in what you do, but if the relationship is not one of good faith and trust, we're probably going to struggle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a phrase there in the therapy world unconditional positive regard. You got to believe that I have your best interest and heart, even if I'm going to say hard things, and I've got to trust that you have the best interest right. So we're trying to create this trust right, and if it can't be built, then that's probably not the right person.
Speaker 2:But I will tell you, I've got a friend who says she knows when it's a good book how many times she wants to throw it against the wall so sometimes the book or the therapist or the coach is going to say hard things and so we're not saying you have to like everything they say, but you have to have a rapport and a feeling of trust. So really work. We have a lot of people that just Google us and they have no faith background at all, but they they were close, were cheap you know, and so we're available Um and so everybody, and so they seek us out. But then they have to decide like are we the right fit?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And that's what you've got to really work toward first.
Speaker 1:And so I also want to piggyback on that. This is a lot like church shopping. If you find yourself church shopping and you've gone through 50 churches, in one year.
Speaker 2:Here's your sign you may be the problem.
Speaker 1:Okay, and so the same thing. Yes, we want. We want the relationship to be a connection but. If you have gone through multiple, multiple, multiple therapists or coaches, you may want to look a little deeper because you may have not grabbed your mat and started walking, and so again, I'm not. I'm not saying that you should shop up around a bit, right, but there is a limit to that and you've got to be honest and real with yourself. And so, if you're on counselor number 152, you need to check out the mirror.
Speaker 2:Well, and I've had a couple before that looked at me and said we have been to 10 different marriage therapists and you're our last choice.
Speaker 1:You're our last hope. Yeah, last hope. The divorce contract is right over there, but it really was.
Speaker 2:It was interesting to kind of dissect what went wrong. Right and it is. It's a lot of times they didn't want to hear what that person had to say, so they just keep going trying to find someone who's going to align with. Actually, usually it's one of the couple that wants everybody to point fingers to that one person and if you're not going to put all the blame on Merle then I'll just keep going to find until somebody will agree with me. So, that's not probably the best route.
Speaker 1:Second major point, and we kind of alluded to this a little bit in the scripture that we read you better prepare yourself for heavy lifting. Counseling and therapy is absolutely some of the hardest work you will ever do in your life and I think that's very confusing to people because they they literally will see. Well, I guess I'm going to go sit in a couch or a chair and I'm just going to hang out for the hour. But as we say is, what you do here with us is really minimal.
Speaker 1:It's going to be what we put together and you walk out of our doors with is where the heavy lifting comes. And yeah, this is the homework, these are the daily practices, this is the breaking of habits and the starting of new habits, and the apologies that have to be made and all the reconciliation. Like this is work Right. And so if you're not ready for the hard work, again we understand. Sometimes it's so overwhelming. We have to break it up into smaller pieces. But you have to know your counselor is not going to outwork you, and if they are, we have the cart in front of the horse. You have to outwork that counselor and that counselor has to say man, they are really doing well here. I want to keep pouring into them.
Speaker 2:You know, as you were talking, hun, it made me think that a lot of the work that we do, even if it's not an addiction issue, maybe it's anger or depression or anxiety or betrayal or mistrust. You know, we kind of follow the 12 step program where it's like surrender, dying to self, acknowledging the power of God in your life, and then I think it's step four, it's making amends.
Speaker 2:And man, I just recently had this conversation with one of my clients and they were really wanting to do that work. That's going to be hard work to acknowledging and apologizing and admitting like I hurt you, that was wrong, and so, yeah, if you're not ready to do the work, you're probably not ready for therapy or coaching.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, okay let's move to another practical tip that you can use to help make your therapy or coaching most effective. My dad was a mechanic.
Speaker 2:Your dad was a carpenter.
Speaker 1:They have a host and host and host of tools right.
Speaker 2:Lots of tools. You love tools.
Speaker 1:Tools, and the joke among men is the hammer is the go-to right. Just grab the hammer and you can beat it to death. And so the idea here is you got to.
Speaker 1:In the world of helping people, there are many, many different tools, but there are the proper tools. Okay, there is a right tool. And so you want to find the right tool. And is the right tool? Is it coaching? Is it medication? Is it therapy, is it a therapist or is it some combination of all of these? Is it talking to a friend? Right, like finding the right tool. And then, once you find that right tool, it's not a matter of me having the right tool in my toolbox, it's a matter of me also learning how to use it properly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, getting it out of the toolbox.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like if you're learning how to make amends with people, like it's a practice like most of us are not real natural. A lot of these things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, for sure I say that all the time Like I can give you all the tools in the toolbox, but if you just keep them in the truck it's not going to do you any good. So you got to get them out, and we are we are teachers by trade, so we give homework, homework, and so we want you to go out and apply what we're learning and the tools that we're giving you, and we want to hear feedback on how it went and so, yeah, sometimes people don't like to do that and they take those shortcuts and stuff.
Speaker 1:But yeah, well, and you need to know, just like the teacher knows, that when little johnny comes in, uh, poor johnny, I always beat up, poor johnny jane. We had last week when little little Johnny or Jane comes in for the 10th time in the last month and doesn't have their homework. The teacher kind of knows, okay, they're really not investing in this.
Speaker 2:And so it's the same thing.
Speaker 1:I mean, we give homework not for the sake of driving people crazy, but one for the sake of getting them the help and the pathway to help. But also, are they really investing in this If somebody comes in the next week and says, man, you know I, I forgot all about the that assignment that you had me do?
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I really was so busy I didn't get around to it. It really helps you and I assess okay, they're not quite where they need to be. So we need to really understand that probably this coaching thing is not going to be very effective.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so another step is to really assess the progress. You know. If your child goes to school and you never get any feedback, whether it be the parent-teacher conference, progress reports, report cards, like how do you know what they're doing and if they're even doing the work, and so that's kind of where we go, like we really do some assessment.
Speaker 2:A lot of times I'll say, okay, let's, let's kind of stop, and take a little snapshot of where we're at, Like what's working, what's not working, what's still confusing, what's missing, and so we kind of need to assess that and and really you've got to be the driver of that right.
Speaker 1:Oh, I can't, I can't emphasize that enough, and I emphasize this too uh, not just with therapists, uh, but also in the, also with your doctor medical doctors. You know, we are only coaching based off of the information that we receive from our clients and if they're giving us neutral or whatever like hey, how are you doing, how's everything going?
Speaker 2:They're like oh, I guess I'm all right.
Speaker 1:That's the best that we can go on right. And so if you're in your doctor's office and you're pretty vanilla milquetoast about, well, I guess I'm better. Yeah, your doctor's not going to go like, well, I guess I should amp up the medicine, or I should change medicine, doctor, and be like, well, I guess you're better. So I guess we'll just stay where we are. So you are the driver and the effectiveness to see whether the we have a positive assessment or that's never been the case with you and your doctors.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you go over and analyze and diagnose and they're like nope, I'm the doctor.
Speaker 1:I go in prepared. You give them a lot of feedback and I will tell you that over the years it's worked for me because I love going in with a doctor and going back and forth with so, doc, here's what I'm thinking, what do you think? And we go back and forth. And I love that back and forth because when now, when I do buy into what they're saying, I bought in because they convinced me that it was right and so it's just so much more effective, I think, in getting things done.
Speaker 2:You know, I think maybe this is a good place, hon, to talk about just the codependency. Okay, we have seen, unfortunately, a lot of therapists who just are there to get the dollar.
Speaker 2:They just they just want to make money off you and so they want you to be on the hook forever, and so if you find someone who's not giving you the tools to be able to be independent and successful and problem solve on your own, like then this probably isn't the good fit for you. So we, we don't want to create a codependency where I can't live without my therapist Like I've heard that before like.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I got to go talk to my therapist and so like please, we're working toward, we're really trying to work ourselves out of a job.
Speaker 1:We want to equip you.
Speaker 2:I say it all the time, but I don't know if I mean that please do not let yourself get dependent and allow a therapist to enable you to stay stuck or to not move toward independence or healing, because that's not healthy either. Very, very rarely is there somebody that needs that ongoing. I mean, if you have a serious mental illness, like schizophrenia or something like that, where you've got to have regular long-term monitoring. That's a rarity and really for the majority is it's really more enabling and codependency that we see you know, hun.
Speaker 1:Um, I think it's important and again, like there's a time and a place for most all types of therapies, but talk therapy actually in Abigail Schreier mentions this talk therapies. Actually it kind of feels good when you're in the session but it carries very little long-term value, and so you want to be careful.
Speaker 1:Like so often, people will come in us and say I just enjoyed talking to you and that feels good to us Like oh good, but at the end of the day, if they walk out and it was just a talk then we just leave them sort of ruminating about all their talk. And so you've got to really be thinking problem solving. Are we moving forward? Are we pushing the needle Right? And so I just want to encourage that.
Speaker 1:if you're just sitting and doing a lot of talking, and there's a time and a place, right, but if that's kind of what the go-to is, then either you or your therapist needs to say, hey, you know where do you want to go with this right, Like, what is the end result? And there will be people that will say I just really need somebody to talk to. And again, like as long as we're all clear on this, but sometimes just a good friend might be your answer.
Speaker 2:But honestly I have had that with, especially with grief, right Like I've, I can't dump all this on my husband or my kids and so, like they will, they'll come and we just process that because I can't fix, I can't take away that loss.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So we do, we process that out. But, as you were talking, it made me think like it's kind of like putting gas in your gas tank but there's a gigantic hole in the bottom and it's literally just leaking out and you never can drive the car because it's like it doesn't, doesn't stay, and so if if you're just kind of getting your little fill and then it's leaking right out, then, we're never going to get anywhere, right?
Speaker 2:So, please, we want, we want to give you that independence, we want to equip you to be able to do life without us.
Speaker 1:That's the goal and, again, that's where the work comes in and that's where you should expect your your counselor or therapist or coach to challenge you Right. And and listen. I think there's a real hard degree of honesty needed, Like sometimes you just don't want to be pushed right or you're like, and so you just need to be honest, Like I'm just not up for it, right? I mean, be honest with yourself and stop wasting your money.
Speaker 1:Yeah or take a break or a different approach or something, but sometimes the hard work is not very appealing or you're not able to do it at that time, and so just be honest with yourself so that you don't prolong a process that's probably not going to work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, one of the. There's so many different approaches to therapy. We were trained in different ones, and one of ours has been CBT, which is cognitive behavioral therapy.
Speaker 2:Cognitive I can't talk to you cognitive behavioral therapy and it does have a high level of effectiveness and I think it's because it encourages clients to really challenge their thoughts and recognize, like okay, is that stinking thinking I got going on? Yeah, you know, one of them I've kind of adhered to lately is attachment theory, and that is really like when I was growing up what did I see, what kind of connection, what kind of bonding did I have, and how does that affect my relationships today? So again, we don't kind of like completely sell out to one.
Speaker 2:We're kind of more eclectic but again, we're coaching, not diagnosing. But we've seen some great therapy techniques work. But ultimately we believe God and his word are really our source of truth and direction for healing.
Speaker 1:That's the biggest part you just said the key word there, god's word, is really about grounding us in truth, the truth of reality, right, the truth of what it's all about. And so if our reality is, and our purpose is all fuzzy, then everything else really is less effective. So, grounding yourself in a truth and knowing well, this is the bottom line of what I'm working off of here's where I want to get. So I think that's really important to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's really a huge difference of what we do, because a licensed therapist can only bring in the faith component if you invite it in.
Speaker 2:That's right If you don't bring it up. If you don't want it in, then they don't or can't as a license to do that, and so that's really where we're different. We're not going to shove it down your throat, but we aren't going to apologize for it. We're going to say we believe this is truth and this is where you're going to find peace. This is where you're going to find hope and joy.
Speaker 2:And so if your chaos and your confusion is out there, then how about trying something that could bring you to that place of regulation? Or if you're not there, then we say hey, then let's help you get another coach or therapist and we can help you to do that.
Speaker 1:But right fit means so much. All right, guys. Bottom line is therapy effective? Um, it can be all right, it can be, but it's not a hundred percent by any means. In fact it's. It's probably way less than 50 percent, depending if I looked at the whole thing. And that's just a shot in the dark there. But the idea here is there's just so many components to it that it takes your investment in it for it to have any level of hope. And so, yes, it can be very effective. And yes, there are absolute people who just need to jump in right now and get the work done. But you've got to do it the right way.
Speaker 2:And there's no magic pill. It's kind of like the diet pills right Like oh.
Speaker 2:I just take this pill and boom, the weight just pours off, and we're finding that you've got to diet pills, right, like, oh, I just take this pill and boom I just the weight just pours off and and we're finding that you got to have some investment, you got to have some life change and some willingness to do the work, and so we would love to walk alongside you. If you're looking for a coach, if you're wanting to have some direction, please give us a call at rock solid families. You can contact us at rock solid families org or 812-576-ROCK, that's 812-576-7625 all right.
Speaker 1:So we want to thank our sponsors again. We want to thank maxwell construction, casey's outdoor solutions and the hoosier ice house. I want to thank all of you guys who continue to follow and support what we do. Please share the show. Please give us a five star rating and a big thumbs up on that. We greatly appreciate it. So hun close us out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so thank you so much for listening to the Rock Solid Families podcast. Building a stronger community, one family at a time.
Speaker 1:Make it a great day rock solid families wants to thank casey's outdoor solutions for sponsoring the rock solid families podcast. Casey's has grown to be one of the largest and most unique garden centers and gift shops in the cincinnati tri-state area. Whether you are looking to take on that next landscape project and most unique garden centers and gift shops in the Cincinnati Tri-State area, Whether you are looking to take on that next landscape project or simply add a little home decor to your house, Casey's has you covered. Located at 21481 State Line Road, Lawrenceburg, Indiana, Call them today at 812-537-3800. Let Casey's help you add beauty to your home. Call them today at 812-537-3800. Let Casey's help you add beauty to your home. Rock solid families wants to thank maxwell construction for sponsoring the rock solid families podcast. For over 30 years, maxwell construction has been a leader in turning dreams into realities building schools, banks, restaurants and many other commercial and public facilities. Maxwell Construction has made it their priority to not just build buildings but to build into their community. So if you have any construction needs, call them at 812-537-2200.
Speaker 2:Rock Solid Families would like to thank Hoosier Ice House for being a proud sponsor of the Rock Solid Families podcast. In the heart of historic Lawrenceburg, Indiana, the Ice House is at the corner of Vine and High Streets. The historic building evokes a feeling of comfort, with spacious indoor and outdoor dining, a large bar and comfortable dining areas Large enough to host parties, yet intimate enough to feel like your favorite neighborhood restaurant. So thank you again for the Hoosier Ice House for sponsoring the Rock Solid Families podcast.