281 - WordCamp 2023 Recap: Divi, The Future of WordPress and AI in Web Design and more

Josh recaps WordCamp US 2023 and shares takeaways from the first Web Designer Pro in person meetup, thoughts on Matt Mullenweg’s keynote talk on the future of WordPress, the latest on Ai in web design, Accessibility, what’s going on with Divi and much more!

In This Episode

00:02 - Recapping WordCamp 2023 and Hot Topics
 11:24 - Imposter Syndrome and Accessibility Evolution
 18:59 - Divi's Community Presence and Future
 30:55 - Direct Chat and Business Recommendations

Get all links, resources and show notes at:

https://joshhall.co/281

Transcript

Josh: 0:02

Welcome to the Web Design Business Podcast, with your host, josh Hall, helping you build a web design business that gives you freedom and a lifestyle you love. Well, hello, friends, just me with you. In this episode I wanted to do a shorty episode, a solo episode here to share with you some thoughts after an awesome weekend at WordCamp, us 2023. For those of you who are not WordPress users, wordcamp is the official WordPress meetup. It's the official conference of the year, at least here in the US, and it's been different over the past three or four years because of COVID. Last year there was kind of a mini US over in San Diego. This year was the first year that was much more of a fuller type conference. It was still limited in the number of people in some ways. I forget the exact number, I think it was close to 3,000. Maybe don't quote me on that, but it was definitely much more of a full-fledged conference and it is where I got to meet up with some of my Web Designer Pro members and some other colleagues and just an awesome time for building community, learning some new stuff, and I also got to bring my wife to the conference so she could see a lot of the people I've talked to online and put faces with names. So I want to do a quick recap on some takeaways from the conference and not only just to share what we did and what we learned, but also maybe give you some things to think about in the way of WordPress and some other stuff here. So there's actually a few things I want to cover in this one, so we'll make this pretty quick. This is a shorty episode, but number one I'm going to give you a quick recap on WordCamp as a whole and share with you where to get some of those resources on what's next for WordPress. I want to specifically share my thoughts around Divi and what's going on with Divi and I phrase it like that because I got a lot of questions about just that like what's going on with Divi. There was no Divi Meetup this year. There was really no Divi presence from Elegant Theme, so I want to share some thoughts with you on that as a Divi user myself. And then maybe just some hot topics, including AI, accessibility and some other stuff going on, and maybe just my insight on where I think things are maybe headed and web designed over the next few years with the rise of AI, accessibility and all these other kind of complex components. So those are the three main things we're going to cover.

Josh: 2:25

I do want to say, first off to my web designer pro members who were able to come to our first official dinner and little meetup oh my gosh, it was so awesome meeting in person. And for you listening right now, if you have thought about going to a meetup or a conference in person and, for whatever reason, you just didn't want to invest in doing it or you just were kind of nervous as an introvert. Whatever the case may be, let me just encourage you to just do it in person. I'm so reminded of this, the rare times that I actually get out of the house as a dad with three kids under five and actually meet somebody in person, specifically as a group, like we did this past weekend. It is so life giving. It is freaking awesome in every way possible and you come away inspired and pumped up, like it's Monday right now that we just got back last night and I'm pumped, I'm like I'm clearer in my mission, I'm clear with what I want to do in my business. I can say the same, for all of our weapons, on our pro members who came. So shout out to Austin April, lauren, sandy, alexis, michelle Lewis, cami, my wife joined us. Did I miss anybody? I think that's all the within our pro meetup group that came. So, guys, it was so awesome meeting in person. I know a lot of you listening are in weapons on our pro and have thought about coming to join us, but maybe, for whatever reason, you couldn't make it. We are going to do more next year, for sure. In fact, don't quote me on this but Hans from Termageddon and I talked about, because he's in Chicago, not too far away from me. He and I talked about maybe potentially at some point putting on a word camp, not official, not like the official one, but just a smaller word camp or bigger WordPress meetup here in Columbus or some area nearby. So we'll see what happens on there.

Josh: 4:12

All that to say meet up with your community, even if you're not a WordPress user. I hope you haven't left by now if you're not a WordPress user, but if your web flow show it Squarespace, whatever. I know there are also conferences and meetups for those as well. I don't know what they look like in relation to word camp, like how big they are, but do it Get in person because it's so it's such a relationship builder and all the names I mentioned a little bit ago from our pro meetup. Not only did we talk, shop and share war stories on the grounds of web design, but we had fun. We got to hang out and have some dinners and drinks and just had a really good time together and got to know each other on a personal level. So I can't recommend enough that you do so. Check out the next word camp that's in your area. I think word camp US in this will come into play here is already set for 2024 in Phoenix. That's the last that I've heard. So that's going to get an early ticket to that one for sure Real quick before we dive into the they're kind of recap of word camp this year.

Josh: 5:16

The other really cool thing about going to a word camp or any sort of conference in your niche is you really do get to shake hands and rub shoulders with the people who are leading the way. Like I mentioned, hans a little bit ago, from term again, which is the tool that I recommend for privacy policies that auto update him and his wife, danada, were there. They were awesome. I've known them for years. It's so cool to actually see somebody in person Good friend of my, adam Pryzer, who runs WP Crafter, one of the largest collection of YouTube tutorials for WordPress he was there. I got to chat with him for a bit. The team from SiteGround oh my gosh, I will say right now SiteGround is legit and they are such a people focused company. Siteground is the hosting company that I've used since 2015,. I think it was that I signed up initially and I actually got to meet Mariah, who or Maria, excuse me, who I have been talking to via email for like six years and I actually got to meet her in person. She's from Bulgaria. What an awesome chance to meet in person. So I don't know if she's listening, but Maria was so great to meet you in person.

Josh: 6:24

Thank you for all the swag. They gave me socks, t-shirts and stickers, which my daughter loved because she got into and took them all out. Gravity forms got to meet the team with Gravity Forms. I've been a Gravity Forms user for a long time and, man, are they a really cool team and they've got some awesome stuff in the pipeline. I have to say publicly, I think they had the best swag at WordCamp this year too. Their t-shirts are super soft. I should have stole a dozen and made a bedsheet out of it. They were like the softest shirts, so got some awesome Gravity Forms swag.

Josh: 6:54

Woocommerce was there too they actually I spent some time at the WooCommerce booth and they showed us me and my wife got a little peek at some of what they're doing with, like scan payments and tap payments that you could actually do through a WooCommerce store. So that's going to be ideal, obviously, for in-person stores and local brick and mortar shops. So a lot of great people. We got to meet at the booths and just like the companies who are leading the way literally my friend Colleen Gratzer with Creative Boost she's kind of leading the way with accessibility she was there. Andrew Palmer ran into him with Bertha AI, had some other friends Chris Badgett, stephanie Hudson but we really didn't get to, actually didn't cross our paths there locally at the conference because it was so big. But again, these are the people who are leading the way and it's one reason it's so great to go there, because everyone is just awesome.

Josh: 7:49

I think WordCamp in particular because it's WordPress. Wordpress, if you don't know and if you're new to the industry, is such a community focused tool because WordPress and again, if you're new and you're not sure what separates WordPress from everybody else. It is open source, meaning it's open to everybody. Wordpressorg is a free tool that anyone can use and build on. Now that comes with potential cons to it as well, but it is a community platform, which is why WordCamp in itself is so powerful, I think, and it's also why it's so grounded in like good, friendly people who want to help and want to collaborate and be there for you as well.

Josh: 8:28

So I just I had a student recently who didn't even know what a WordCamp was until recently and it dawned on me like wow, yeah, there's so many people getting into the industry right now. Don't assume that they all know what these things are. I mean, when I got into web design, I had no idea what a WordCamp was and there were people who were in the industry already for five or six years. So, yes, if you're new to web design, wordpress is still over 40% of the internet I think 44%-ish last I looked. So let's just say WordPress is not going anywhere. That leads us to the big first point here. So we're actually gonna go through this pretty quickly.

Josh: 9:02

I just wanted to share my thoughts on my personal experience my wife, by the way, really enjoyed going to WordCamp this year and getting to meet some of the people I work with and we actually had a lot of questions, a lot of the members and pro and specifically we're curious about what life looks like at our home and what my wife deals with as our home, you know, or the stay at home mom working around my schedule and stuff. So I think I'm gonna bring my wife on the podcast here soon to do a bit of a Q and A if you're curious. If you are, send me an email, josh at joshallco. Let me know what questions you might have for my wife. Anyway, wordcamp, the recap and the replay A lot I've already kind of unintentionally hit on with just the booths and the sponsors and the people who are really running the show.

Josh: 9:43

I do wanna say you can get more information about the replays that are available and what was talked about at the conference If you go to justwordpressorg on the homepage. As of right now I don't know how long this will be up they have a big old live stream that is on there, including the main talk from Matt Molenwig, who is the CEO of Automatic, the company that he founded after founding WordPress Because, again, wordpressorg is free and open source, but he is yeah, he's the founder of WordPress, so it's definitely worthwhile listening to his talk. I haven't listened to all of it. I've listened to most of it and gone through a lot of the Q and A he was a part of, because he really does share a lot of things that are gonna come into play here in regards to accessibility and AI and all of this stuff. So you can find that at wordpressorg, and Matt Molenwig's talk on the video they have on there starts at about seven hours and 25 minutes or so. So go to wordpressorg. The video goes seven hours 25 minutes in and you can check out the talk from Matt Molenwig. It's about an hour, with some Q and A as well. So highly recommend that if you really wanna see what's going on right now with WordPress and what's going on next.

Josh: 10:54

So, overall, though, there were some really, really good talks on at WordCamp. My wife and I actually didn't go to too many. My primary reason for going was for community deepening with WebDesigner Pro members, but we did go to some talks, went to an interesting one on accessibility. We had some members of Pro go into the accessibility talks and some other hot topics in WebDesign. All I'll say is a quick recap on this. This actually brings us to my second point with AI, accessibility trends, etc.

Josh: 11:24

One thing I've learned, especially when it comes to accessibility, is it is so easy to feel like an imposter with accessibility and I'm sure I'm not alone in that and the reason is is because I think accessibility is like daily evolving and changing. So we went to a talk with somebody who talked about accessibility, who's on the forefront of accessibility, in fact, my friend, kyle Van Dusen with the admin bar, who they're a group. If you haven't already checked out the admin bar, I forgot to mention Kyle. Yeah, actually Kevin Geary was there too. We chatted for a little bit. Who's coming on the podcast soon, some other guys who met up with but I met up with Kyle and after that accessibility talk, I saw him in the front row at that talk, live streaming into the admin bar Facebook group, which is, again, if you haven't already joined, highly recommend you do.

Josh: 12:14

It is on the forefront of accessibility because they have a weekly accessibility talk or some sort of like newsletter with accessibility. Anyway, what I learned in that talk was that it's all about trying. It really is. Accessibility is about doing as much as you can with what you know, what you can do to make the your website designs more accessible to everyone and also, when there's clients involved, working around the client with budget and everything else, and explaining to clients that accessibility is not just something that's a pain in the ass for web developers, like we all know it as often, whether that's fair or not. It's not something that is just meant to make web designers lives harder. It is meant to make the website more accessible for everyone people with any sort of disability, whether it be developmentally, whether it be actually physically, like eyesight problems.

Josh: 13:12

One thing that I didn't really think about until the last probably year or so, since accessibility really was into the forefront, is to like make websites accessible for people who have physical ailments. Even if they, if they're not able to use their hands, how can you make a website accessible to them? The talk we went to is kind of interesting because she used a lot of lingo about tabbing through websites, meaning they're not able to use a mouse, and if you've never thought about what your website performs like for people who don't have access to a mouse, it's a good thought. It's like is your website design in your site designs as a whole available for somebody who uses the tab button on their keyboard instead of using a mouse, and that was a really good, challenging thought for me, just to remember that a lot of people are on the internet now where 10 years ago they may have felt like it wasn't a place for them because they weren't able to use a mouse or see or hear or whatever the senses may be, like everyone else who are typically using websites. So accessibility Again.

Josh: 14:16

I kind of came into it, probably just like everyone, with the idea that, like a sex sex ability is like oh how, like now do I need to go through all my sites and do all this stuff and it's such a pain to do this and this and this. But what I've realized is that it is such a good thing at heart. Accessibility is literally making websites more accessible to everyone who can use them, and I think it's a really noble thing to take seriously. So all that to say, the good news is, the next step is like well, that's great, josh, that's, you know that hit my heart strings. But now what? How do I actually practically do this? Accessibility is changing and evolving constantly, so there is not a 100% accessible website, just like there is not a 100% secure website. You can get close, but there's always going to be something to change. And even the guy we saw speak when it came to accessibility said that she still wanted, like she still wasn't fully happy with her website, like there were still things that she had to do. So as an accessibility quote, unquote expert, everyone says the same thing you just do as hard as you can and with as much as you can in regards to accessibility. So that made me feel a lot better. I hope it does to you too. For those who are worried about accessibility or keeping in line with trends to avoid lawsuits and all that kind of stuff.

Josh: 15:34

Ai I want to talk about AI real quick and then I want to hop over to what's going on with Divya as we wrap up this little shorty episode here. So accessibility was a big one. There was other topics as well, but I think accessibility and AI are the two hot ones the hottest ones right now that are like changing and evolving so fast. So, of course, ai every industry is utilizing AI and is either really excited or terrified of AI, but Matt Mullenweg said something really interesting in his keynote speech. Actually, it was the Q&A. It was a Q&A session, so again, go to WordPressorg to watch 7, 7.5 hours in to watch his talking.

Josh: 16:09

In the Q&A section, somebody asked something about AI and whether it is a threat to WordPress or maybe a different question, but it was something to that effect Like how is AI going to impact WordPress? What was really interesting on Matt's perspective was that he even said, as somebody who spends a lot of time in San Francisco with a lot of these companies, he is on the forefront of what's going on and here in their mission. And from what he said I'm paraphrasing don't quote me on this, but essentially what I got from his response on AI and WordPress and whether AI is going to replace websites and WordPress. He said every really interesting. Which is that interesting thing? Which is that AI is, since it is just a tool to gather information and take things from the internet, whether it be websites, social media, whatever.

Josh: 16:58

He really stressed the importance of owning your own digital real estate and, even more so, how now, with copycat content and duplications and everything else, that AI companies are going to make a big push for the original content creator, meaning they want to attribute real information that is either correct or from the source to the person or company who put it out as a creator, as a course creator, as a web designer, whatever it is as a blog poster. So he stressed the importance that having your own website in your own digital real estate, meaning your own domain name, your own website, that's your control, that you're blogging on. That's obviously not black hat type of techniques when it comes to backlinks and linking and anything else, but you have a real, genuine site with real, genuine, authentic content. Ai is going to start attributing that and even in the search functions. He said he's really excited to see how chat GPT, for example, instead of just pulling answers to a question that you might have and get like if you, if you prompt chat GPT by saying, give me 10 answers to something, instead of just answers, it may have answers with citations on who developed these answers.

Josh: 18:14

So, in a way, ai is almost going to be like a new search engine in a lot of ways. I mean it already kind of is already, but now it's almost going to be like and this is my, this is my analogy in my perspective of it is that I almost see AI being like the new Google search. It's like a new search page, search engine result page. It's like it's an ARP, it's an AI engine results page. So, or AI, rp? There it is. Take it to the bank, everybody. You heard it here.

Josh: 18:42

Original content from the Web Design Business Podcast. Josh Hall says AI is the new Google and it'll be AI RP artificial intelligence results page. Bam, there it is. I better copyright that for somebody takes it. So that's what my, that's my perspective on that.

Josh: 18:59

It made me really good to hear about that being the perspective for for Matt and WordPress, being that it is even more important with AI to own your stuff in, be the hub. And, as we all know, with social media, slack channels, messengers and everything else, those are not the destinations, those are not homes for content necessarily. Now, you can put things on social media, of course, but you want your stuff on your home, on a website that you control, because if you put, as we know, you put all of your content on a social media platform and it either goes down or something gets deleted or whatever happens to it, you put yourself at risk for losing all of your content. So you want it to ideally at least be on your website as the home, the hub of all your stuff. So those are my thoughts, high level thoughts on accessibility and AI, based off of what I saw in the, in the conference, because again, I didn't go to too many talks but what I did see. That was kind of my perspective on those two hot topics.

Josh: 19:58

So I want to wrap this up with Divi, a question I got from Lewis, a couple other pro members and even some people who I talked to, who have been students of mine, and just some random conversations with, with folks at WordCamp. Speaking of, I didn't even mention some of the people I got to to meet one off, but at the, at the museum, at the social, got to meet Kelly. Kelly, I know you're a listener If you're listening to me. It was so great to meet you. Mike was there? Mike, really great to meet you as well. Tony, anthony on his badge, but I know him as Tony If you're listening, great to see you as well.

Josh: 20:32

But a lot of these folks I had some conversations with and a recurring theme I got was about Divi and what the heck is going on with Divi. They don't really have much of a community presence right now. There was no meetups or community presence at all, or anybody from the company at elegant themes, from from what I know of, and the question is, yeah, like what's going on with Divi? And and side question, are you worried about Divi, which is a question I got as well. I do not have an inside scoop on this or an inside track, but I know that Divi is working hard on Divi 5.0, which is really a complete remodel and revamp of the core of Divi, from what I know. Now I'm not gonna go any further than that because I'm not a developer. If you wanna find out more, just Google Divi 5 and we'll have this link in the show notes for this episode.

Josh: 21:17

But there is a full article that Nick Rhodes, the owner of Velliant Themes, posted about Divi 5 and you can actually get on their beta program. If you would like to download the first version of Divi 5, which is in the works, they have multiple phases of this, but you can try some stuff out. I actually just got a hold of the zip file, so over the next couple of weeks I'll probably dabble around with it just to see what things are like and what's different, but you will get a good look at what's ahead for Divi 5. I say that to say when it comes to their community presence and everything else. I'm pretty sure this is just my perspective on it and I know that Nick has talked about this somewhere, which is that the emphasis is really on that.

Josh: 21:56

I think Nick and the team at Divi and Elligan Themes are really just working on making sure that Divi is the best it can be make it a little more stripped down, lightweight, developer friendly, without losing the functionality and the visual aspects that we all love about Divi for those of us who are Divi users, and I'm pretty sure that's why they really haven't had a huge community focus. Also, if you didn't know, my primary contact there, nathan, who was the content marketer the content manager, who I knew very well, is not with the company anymore and I know that he did a lot with the company and the way of like meetups and community and blog, because the blog has changed quite a bit. I don't wanna bash Elligan Themes or Divi because I'm still such a fan of Divi and I love the company, but the blog needs some work. For sure. I miss the community aspect of the blog. I actually had multiple people talk to me about that and I was actually a blog contributor for Elligan Themes for a long time, so definitely hope to see more community involvement with Elligan Themes, both in the way of meetups, word camps and perhaps their content marketing as well. But there's reasons for wanting to keep things in-house and I'm sure there's a lot of valid reasons why they didn't necessarily want freelancers and blog contributors like myself, who are not under the umbrella of Elligan Themes, contributing. But it's definitely come into play with the community as a whole and I think there's almost a need and a want for Divi from 2016 and 17,. At least from the community perspective. So, all that to say, I'm not worried. I'm not worried about Divi.

Josh: 23:27

I think what Divi is up against is the rise of Elementor, and I do believe that Elementor is more popular in the way of downloads or at least I don't know about paying users, but definitely probably websites using Elementor. What I have found is a lot and I found this by talking to some developers at WordCamp a lot of web developers and designers now who used to exclusively use Divi or exclusively use Elementor or name a theme or builder, are now using two or three. So I know a lot of designers who are using Divi and Elementor and Oxygen and Bricks or Beaver Builder or whatever it is, particularly if it's based off of WordPress or they're just using the block editor with WordPress. And I think that's what's really common is, instead of Divi being the only theme somebody's using, like I did, it is now like a theme of your toolbox and your tech stack, which I always say I would recommend not doing more than two or three, because it's very hard to keep up with more than a handful of tools. It's hard enough to keep up with what's going on with one tool, but I do think it's worthwhile having a diverse toolbox portfolio, if you will, when it comes to the tools you use. So, yeah, that's kind of my take on Divi as well. I really am not worried about it. I think we're gonna see a lot more community aspects to it moving forward and again, I don't know, I would love to talk with Nick about what the plans are. So, nick, if you're listening to this by chance or this clip gets to you, hit me up. I would love to know what's in the works and in the future for Divi. Maybe I'll even reach out to see if he's down to chat at some point. But yeah, I would imagine we would see a push for more community involvement once Divi 5 is live out in the open.

Josh: 25:06

And one thing we have to remember, too, is that all of these builders on WordPress are also reacting to what is going on with WordPress, with core and with their page builder, like with Gutenberg, with the block editor. All those things need to work nicely together. So if you listen to that talk by Matt Mullenweg, it does get a little nerdy, it does get a little developer speak, but even if you're not far into the development world like me, you'll still get a sense. I think that they are keeping WordPress up-to-date with standards that are changing online and they're also trying to innovate the core of WordPress to make sure it is better for developers and for all the tools that play with it, but also not trying to change the core of WordPress to where, like do it doesn't work anymore or elementary doesn't work. Can you imagine that, like if WordPress changed something about the post types or their structure and then it just like broke every theme that we use it? I mean, you can imagine. Oh, I just it's one reason I'm not in the developer or plug-in or theme where I just can't imagine how that all plays together. I guess you know. Hats off to everyone who does that, but that is just. It's beyond me to be able to keep up with what's going on there, so I'll let you say that is.

Josh: 26:21

One pro and benefit that I see with Divi is that Divi is on the forefront of looking forward to what's going on and they're changing their theme and their builder to work with what is going on with WordPress. So I am not concerned. I do think and I do wish there was a bigger community involvement and I hope to see that change here. But I'm definitely not worried about Divi and I don't have any personal plans to move from Divi at all, unless there's some reason. I just feel like I would do better with something else. But I can tell you I have no interest in learning a new builder at this stage of the game at my old age of 36. So those are some thoughts my friends, wordcamp, ai, accessibility, hot topics and what's going on with Divi. And again, just my thoughts on WordCamp as a whole. Gosh man, I had so much fun with pro members who were there this year.

Josh: 27:12

If you do want to join us in Web Designer Pro and join us on some in-person meetups again. Go to joshallco. It is my community that involves three big things Courses all of my courses are involved in your membership and included in your membership when you join Pro, which does have a monthly option. I think the monthly option is very reasonable as a price point wise to get you access to everything. The community is top notch and incredible. Every member will back that up, especially new members.

Josh: 27:41

I love seeing new members saying like I can't believe I didn't join this sooner. Like this is somebody recently said I finally found a place I feel safe online to be like an actual contributor to, and not just a creeper on, some of these other groups that are I don't want to use the lingo toxic, but you know what I mean. Do you dare post a question on one of these developer groups or designer groups without getting shredded? Good luck with any sort of free group, even good free groups you're still going to have some people in there who you're going to get some responses, whereas, yeah, pro, I have literally I'd said this to the group. One reason I'm so thankful for everybody is I've literally never had to delete a comment since starting the group in 2020. I'll say that again I have never had to delete a comment in web designer pro since launching in fall of 2020. That is amazing. What other online community has never had to delete a comment because somebody was nasty? I don't know of one. If you do, let me know, because hats off to them as well. But that's a testament to the type of people who are joining pro. So that's you and you've been curious.

Josh: 28:44

Join us. There's the coaching aspect as well. You and I get a DM conversation and then again we are going to be doing a lot more meetups in 2024 with WordCamp US for sure, potentially even WordCamp Europe. I think I heard rumblings of Italy WordCamp Europe. My wife was like I guess I'll join you. We go to Italy. So if that's the case, I got don't quote me on that, I don't know. That's official. But now we're going to be doing a lot more because the in person stuff was just amazing. Highly recommend that you do as well, even if it's just a small thing, or if you host. You can host your own meetups and bring a lot of people to you, and you can. That can actually get you work in partnerships with people and potentially expand your client base. So all those things to say what a wonderful WordCamp US 2023 pro members. Again, it was so great meeting in person. I loved it. I'm already excited for the next round and a lot of so great meeting, a lot of colleagues and friends in and around WordPress.

Josh: 29:41

We're going to have a lot of the links mentioned, including the WordPress talk from Matt Mullinwig, divi five Cobb and dooson's admin bar group, some others that we mentioned, so we'll have those all on the show notes and until the next episode, friends, I am going to be doing some more solo episodes. I've taken a break here recently just because, um, yeah, just it's been a wild summer, been a busy summer with family things and keeping up with everything else going on and launching my new business course, which is still on the the ending of the launch period. So more on that to come. But, yeah, should I do some more solo episodes, cause I hope you're enjoying those, along with the interviews. Again, if you would like to hear from my wife, my wife Emily, on what it's like behind the scenes, email me, josh, at joshallco Unless you're a pro member, in which case just DM me and I will keep a list of questions for her when I bring her on here soon. I'm excited for that too. So, all right, friends, enjoy awesome, awesome, awesome weekend at WordCamp.

Josh: 30:35

Thank you to the folks at WordPress for all you do and I hope, if you're not a WordPress user, you get to your community as soon as you can. And if you'd like to be a part of my community, join us. Web designer pro. Josh hallco. Slash pro. We have a monthly option to just try it out. Get started. You will get loads of resources that will make it worthwhile, even if you just want to try it out.

Josh: 30:55

So and you and I can chat directly, I would love to get to know you and hear about your business, and I'll give you some immediate insight on what I would recommend doing with your business. I'll take a look at your services and your sales pages and give you some insight ASAP to uh to build your business as fast as possible and also love what you do. So all right, friends, thanks for joining. I'll see you on the next episode. Got some good ones coming up, so make sure to subscribe, and if you would leave a podcast review, that would mean the world to me. That would really mean a lot to me. So, all right, I'm giving you a long Midwest goodbye, so talk soon, friends, see you.