The Rooted Renegade - with Coach Rebecca Arnold, JD, CPCC, PCC

In this transformative episode, we are joined by the insightful Rebecca Arnold, a professional certified coach and author who specializes in personal growth and leadership development. Rebecca shares her compelling origin story, detailing her journey from a burned-out professional in policy work to reconnecting with her roots in psychology and finding her true calling as a coach.

Throughout the episode, Rebecca and host Erica D'Eramo engage in a thought-provoking discussion on the importance of accessing one's unique gifts and experiences to tackle pressing challenges and create positive change. They delve into Rebecca's concept of "rooted peace," a holistic framework for achieving well-being in mind, body, and heart, and explore how aligning inner values with external success can lead to a more fulfilling life.

Listeners will gain valuable insights into prioritizing well-being and intuition over societal norms that emphasize external validation. The episode also covers the complexities of navigating toxic work environments, enhancing emotional intelligence, and managing stress through mindfulness and emotional awareness.

Rebecca emphasizes the power of redefining personal success and offers practical tools for clarifying goals and desires. Don't miss this inspiring conversation that promises to leave you empowered to embrace your true potential and cultivate a life of rooted peace.

Rebecca's upcoming book, "The Rooted Renegade," will be available on June 10, offering fifty actionable practices for personal growth and transformation.

Transcript

Erica D'Eramo: 0:05

Hello and welcome to the Two Piers podcast. I'm your host, Erica D'Eramo. And today we have Rebecca Arnold joining us. So Rebecca is a professional certified coach and the founder of Rooted Coaching and Consulting LLC, a holistic leadership coaching firm. She's also the author of The Rooted

Renegade: 0:21

Transform Within, Disrupt the Status Quo, and Unleash Your Legacy, which will be published by Greenleaf book group in June of 2024. The book is her call to action; part roadmap and part step by step guide to create a joyful, harmonious life that meets the challenges of our times. Her clients are mission driven leaders seeking holistic success in the fields of education, medicine, law, academia, and social impact organizations. And attorney by training, Rebecca has a background in education policy. More importantly, she's known as a straight talking big hearted coach. She also happens to be a dog mom, a human mom, and a spunky wife. We are so excited to have Rebecca, join us today and share some of her insights on creating a rooted life. Rebecca, Hi, thanks for joining us.

Rebecca Arnold: 1:23

It is a pleasure to be with you. Thanks for having me.

Erica D'Eramo: 1:26

Yeah, absolutely. So let's just start with kind of my typical question that I asked every guest, tell us a little bit about your origin story. So what what brought you to the Rebecca that we meet today,

Rebecca Arnold: 1:42

So many things like most people. So I studied psychology in college, and I was deeply fascinated with education policy, which led me to law school to work on equity issues in education. And I worked in the federal government, which was a fascinating social experiment. And how big change happens and seeing kind of how the sausage gets made behind the scenes, which is probably a conversation for another day. And then after that, I had my two kids, and I was doing consulting with education, nonprofits. And I finally found my dream job. I was ecstatic. I was doing policy work in the education space, we were making tectonic impacts in education systems, there was brand new legislation, I was on top of the world. And you know where this is going. I colossally burned out. And I had a real crisis of a call this like values collision, where my values around social impact and education equity and all of that were conflicting with my own well being my values of family and connection, I was traveling a lot and not able to show up for my kids in the way that I wanted. And I really wasn't prioritizing my physical and mental health. So I entered this period of extreme burnout and kind of collapse. And through that process, there was a long healing journey. And as a part of that, I started asking myself this question of, What do I do next? If I've just experienced my dream job, and that is no longer an option? Where do I go next? It was this real existential reckoning. And I started reconnecting with my psychology roots. And I remembered somewhere in the back of my mind this idea about coaching that I'd heard about somewhere along the way. And so I took a class in coaching. And I, you know, that experience when it feels like puzzle pieces, just click into place, and it's your you have this like full body? Yes, that is how it felt after having this coaching experience. And so it was very clear to me that that was my direction, and a way to integrate lots of different interests that I have and support folks along the way, especially in particular to avoid the experience that I had at burnout.

Erica D'Eramo: 4:24

Yeah, that origin story absolutely resonates for me, and I'm sure resonates for a lot of folks listening of you know, when you find something that you think is the dream, there is almost like an identity crisis that happens when you realize that the future you'd envisioned is not going to be the path that you're going to take. So yeah, absolutely. Yeah, really.

Rebecca Arnold: 4:45

And lots of folks feel lost in that gap up trying to figure out what's next because we don't talk about that enough.

Erica D'Eramo: 4:52

Yeah, yeah. Yes. Especially on this journey that we've set out for so so many folks cuz in society of like, you go to school and you get that you get your high school done, and then you go to undergrad, and then maybe you go into corporate and you go on that ladder, or maybe you go to grad school and you go on that ladder. So when you sort of realize like, Oh, I'm not going to stay on this ladder, Oh, no. What now?

Rebecca Arnold: 5:17

Right.

Erica D'Eramo: 5:18

Yeah.

Rebecca Arnold: 5:18

And some of these letters are very long. I mean, the fact that academic faculty I work with have been in their field for 20 years sometimes and are on the tenure track, and then are looking at am I even interested in this field of study anymore? Which causes a whole reckoning with the choices? A person may have made it 25.

Erica D'Eramo: 5:38

Right. Right. Right. And introduces elements of grief and yeah, and identity, like you mentioned. Yeah. So you've talked a little bit about what drew you to this work. Tell me a little bit more about, you know, what makes it important to you.

Rebecca Arnold: 5:55

I have this sort of notion that if you know, that idea that the medicine that's needed for the planet exists on the planet itself, I have a similar thought about humans that if everyone were actually able to access their gifts, talents, the lessons of their experiences, and bring that unapologetically, we would be able to solve our most pressing challenges on the planet, in our communities in our families. But there's so much energy wasted with stifled passion, intention and gifts, that we all miss out. And I am so committed to people being able to access the part of them that may have they may have cast aside a long time ago or might not feel entitled to lean into and recapture that energy for their own benefit. And for all of our benefits. So that is what lights me all the way up. And I get pumped when I'm working with people who are ready to make the shifts that that might require. And I just love watching the cascading impacts of those changes for folks in their workplaces and their families in their communities. You can watch it happen. Yeah, sure. You have a similar experience with your clients too.

Erica D'Eramo: 7:16

Yeah, absolutely. And I think I've I've been going on this kind of evolution in my coaching and consulting journey. But it sounds very similar in that, you know, I started working with individuals. And that's important, right, but I wanted to make system changes. And then I started to work with the systems and organizations. But I've kind of come full circle back to the individuals because they are the agents of change. Right? It is, it is working with these individuals who will shape the world. And so yeah, as coaches, I think we work with, we work one on one with people. But the point is that they have the impact in the world that they want and need to have. So

Rebecca Arnold: 7:59

absolutely. And I think about the leaders who I support and the 1000s of folks they're responsible for, and their families and their communities and one small shift and how they're showing up has tremendous impact. And so it's so it just seeds, so much possibility for them and for those around them that you can't help but get excited about it as a coach. Yeah.

Erica D'Eramo: 8:27

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So So tell me a little bit more about the concept of being rooted in peace, which is sort of one of the foundational elements of your, your upcoming book. So describe to me what that looks like, what is rooted peace?

Rebecca Arnold: 8:42

Yeah, so I think about rooted peace from three, it's sort of the constellation of three different elements. The first is this idea of internal peace. So building the capacity to have greater resilience to counteract stress, whether that is through breath, work, through visualization, through connecting with what matters most to you. The second piece is existential peace. Are you living your purpose? Are you aligned with your values holistically in the span of your life? Are you supporting yourself in your day to day, are you breaking yourself down? And then the third piece is relational. The third element is relational peace, which is your relationship with yourself and with other people. And the way that I think about this idea of rooted peace is that in order to have this Mind, Body heart experience of everything feels right in our lives, we really need those three components. And my invitation in this book and always is not to seek perfection, because all of us are working in those three elements throughout our lives. But it's more of a framework for how to look at at what's working in your life, and what's not and what to do about it. And I am really committed to practical things. So there are tons of practices built throughout this framework to support people to have an impact in those three areas.

Erica D'Eramo: 10:18

Yeah, I don't know how many books I've read that are great conceptually. And in theory, and you finish and you're like, Man, that was such a good read. And then you go back to life as normal, because there was nothing tactical, measurable that you could put into practice and start to embed those over time. So yeah, that's, that's great. So, you know, you sort of took your own journey and stepped off the train, the train tracks. And that probably involved a lot of reframing what you wanted out of life. And it sounds like that's maybe a thread with your clients reframing. So how does this concept shape your concept of success than or how you view success.

Rebecca Arnold: 11:06

So we are all in the US anyway, swimming in a, in a culture that prioritizes Go, go go capitalism, top dog, all of that stuff. And we have, most of us have grown up with a traditional notion of success that looks like that. But when we think about the things that we actually want, so when people talk about wanting more money, for example, they don't want to jump in a pile of money. I mean, that might be like an interesting experience. But that's not what people are actually after

Erica D'Eramo: 11:39

So many germs.

Rebecca Arnold: 11:43

What they actually want is the experience that they think having that money will get them. What they're usually seeking is calm, tranquility, adventure, a life that looks that feels good on the inside, and reflects who they feel like they are. And so when I think about success, it's what are the things that are going to give you the mind, heart and soul experience of awe? And yes, simultaneously. And that's the thing, when I think about for my own kids, what I want for them, that's what I want for them. And I also want for them to know how to pick themselves back up and be a partner for themselves throughout their journey. And so those are some of the pieces of success and the ways that I look at success. And what my clients are really wrestling with often is when they have followed this, these long ladders that we've talked about, and they thought that success will be on the other side and happiness. And then they experience a gap of I am successful, quote unquote, and miserable on the inside. And I'm not Okay with that. I'm sure you're not Okay with that either. And when I think about rooted peace, the objective is to get people that alignment of the outside and the inside their experiences. Meech, yeah,

Erica D'Eramo: 13:08

I mean, I think that, right, that it's such a complex discussion, because especially in a right, we live in capitalism, and and Maslow's hierarchy of needs, we need a roof over our heads, and we need food. And sometimes we can't take that for granted, especially with inflation and everything happening. And also, this acknowledgment that even once you start to meet the lower baseline, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, we start to explore those upper echelons of it. And if you don't have those, either, you still won't have what it is that money or titles or whatever is supposed to give us. Yes to be holistic, right?

Rebecca Arnold: 13:52

Absolutely. Yeah. It's also a piece that I see. I don't know what your experiences with your clients, but I think of it as like an atrophied wanting muscle for folks who are women and other marginalized identities, having a hard time even connecting with what they want, and what is gonna fill them up. That is not from external sources, but is actually comes internally and as deeply felt.

Erica D'Eramo: 14:21

Yes, yeah, that was that's I just recently with a client had a conversation about, you know, taking a different role, and it would be a lower title, but it would give much more, you know, quality of life, but it would be a step down. But the pay would be the same, you know, and it was it was interesting, because it was like, well, there's nothing wrong with putting value on the title is Are you actively intentionally opting into that as a value or did is this inherited, inherited did somebody give this to you as a value because the structure the system, the organization, they A benefit off of you internalizing that, as you know, tied to your value as a human. But do you actually do that? And it turns out the answer was no.

Rebecca Arnold: 15:10

Yep. Yeah. I mean, even in our language, right, like a step down, yeah, we're taking a step into a higher quality. Who decided that title was a step down? So it's embedded throughout?

Erica D'Eramo: 15:25

Yeah, that was my client's language, not mine. Right. Like they that was? Yeah. Which is is such a signal to to win how we view that? Yeah, it's like, well, you know, how much money would you pay for peace of mind? And let's put $1 amount on that to, for you to see just how valuable it actually is for you.

Rebecca Arnold: 15:49

Right? I mean, when you think about, sometimes I do this thought exercise with clients, like, what is this? What is this job actually costing you? And we go through? Well, I have to go to the doctor three times a year to check on this thing. That is, I'm not paying any attention to, I need to take these expensive vacations to recover, I have to have coverage for my kids, because I'm not able to show up for them in the way that I want. I have to, I spent a lot of frivolous money because I'm trying to numb out. Right. And when you start to add all that up, it is deeply expensive to not be aligned with what you actually want. Yeah,

Erica D'Eramo: 16:29

yeah. I know that the compounding interest on wellbeing is probably something that we can't calculate. Wow. Yeah. So you know, what are some ways that you feel folks can, you know, use the wisdom and the power that they inherently have to go from maybe where they're at right now to building something that looks more sustainable for them.

Rebecca Arnold: 16:55

So one piece, which dovetails on what we were just talking about is, I call this notion dancing with mortality. We have this idea that mortality is so far off, and for most of us, and it is just a lie, we tell ourselves to get through the day, which of course we have to right, if we were every moment thinking about our mortality, we wouldn't be able to function, right? And we we sort of cast mortality, we kind of cover our eyes and look away. And what I often invite people into is to have the sense of dancing with mortality, which looks like bringing it a little more into your conscious awareness. Like maybe once a week, hey, I'm X number of years old, how many more years do I actually have left? And how do I want those to look? And there's a zooming out quality that happens at a reprioritizing that happens as soon as we start to have that kind of a conversation.

Erica D'Eramo: 17:54

Yeah, I mean, there's a, I don't want to call it a trope. But this it's kind of well known now that you know, the astronauts that get to see the earth, from afar have this complete existential shift about, you know, where we are and what a miracle it is that we even exist. And for me that dancing with mortality, anyone who's listened to the podcast for a while has heard me tell the story about like, snapping into a helicopter see, and sort of having it front of mine that there had been a bunch of helicopter crashes in the industry and beyond what if this helicopter goes down? Did I do what I wanted to do in life? Well, I have regrets on the way down, like, certainly sadness and fear, but like regrets about how I spent my time. And the answer was yes, that day, and it was a real, like, wake up call for me. And anyone who's dealing with illness, or anytime we hear these things in the media about, or in our communities, even about, you know, like, mass shootings or just real tragedies, it's a, it's a reminder, like tomorrow is not, tomorrow is not a given. Absolutely.

Rebecca Arnold: 19:05

And it puts that email you've been fighting over into the perspective it needs to be in. And it's so easy to kind of slingshot back into our day to day. So the invitation is just to periodically bring it into your awareness. Another piece that I another kind of practice that I think about in terms of activating the wisdom that you hold inside is we have most of my clients and I'm sure this is your experience, too, that kind of operate from the neck up. And we're so used to relying on our brain in Western culture. Of course, our brains are delightful. And there is

Erica D'Eramo: 19:42

I don't know Speak for yourself

Rebecca Arnold: 19:48

or frustrated with mine too. And there is so much wisdom, intuition, understanding from the neck down that we often to now And so, most, most of us are kind of under practiced in paying attention to the signals that our body is giving us. And it is one of the quickest ways to access our intuition and help us make reprioritize and make some of the critical decisions in our lives. And so I often work with folks to kind of re kind of forge a new relationship with the wisdom of their bodies. And that can look like when you have an ache talk, I know that sounds a little wacky, but talking to your ache, what are you trying to tell me? What do you need me to know? And as you start asking, those kinds of questions, your body will start to answer. So there's, this is a whole realm. I mean, your somatic practice is a whole realm that has so much richness, and is not talked enough about I think, in leadership kind of spaces and circles and within organizations.

Erica D'Eramo: 20:56

Yeah, there's a an author named Lisa Feldman Barrett, she wrote, yeah, how emotions are made. And so as you're talking through this, it's just reminding me that, like, our brain is interpreting a lot of things. And it's really just reading what's happening in our body that's, that is happening in order to keep us alive. Yep. And then we add context, we add meaning we add history. And then we come up with a word and we say, Oh, I'm scared, or I'm this, or I'm that. But really, it's the things are happening in our bodies. And then we can be more reflective and intentional about that and more observant.

Rebecca Arnold: 21:38

Yeah, it's so interesting to me, I don't know if that you've had this experience, but lots of books talk about the need for emotional intelligence, and social intelligence and all of that. And oftentimes, that work can be intellectual in a way that is great, and is missing the complementary piece of, if it's hard for you to identify the imprints of different emotions in your body, it's very hard for you to be compassionate and empathetic with other folks and understand your own emotional interior life. And so of course, there can be a gap in collaboration and communication and teamwork and all those things that our leaders and organizations value so much.

Erica D'Eramo: 22:21

Yeah, yeah. That the word interoception a lot of like, throw that out there. A lot of people are not familiar with that word, but it means right, being able to know what is happening in your body. And if that's not, there's a reason it's called a practice, right? This is not something that you just decide tomorrow, I'm going to be aware of what's happening in my body. So that's why working with a coach, like yourself can be so valuable, because it's bringing back to that like coming back using the practices being building that awareness over time. And it's a muscle that we build in a way, right? Absolutely. Yeah. So how do you feel folks can start to own their own capabilities, you know, even when they're in a work environment, that's maybe not sending them the most positive messages or can be filled with, you know, a lot of either toxicity or just criticality. And so, what's some advice you have?

Rebecca Arnold: 23:18

Yeah, so I love this question. Thank you. There are so many small practices that can make a huge impact. And one that I love is simply at the end of the day, writing down three wins you had that day, it can be I smiled at a jerk today. From that to Iraq to that presentation, right, it can be as micro as you want to make it or as macro as you want to make it. But one of the opportunities of a practice like that is that if you know what's coming at the end of the day, you'll start to look for your wins throughout the day. And it's a very simple way of counteracting a toxic culture, not that this is going to fix everything. Of course, the toxic culture is systemic, and it's not an individual's responsibility to metabolize that. And while you are working in that system and trying to either negotiate, change or negotiate your out, there are practices you can do to start feeling incrementally better. And this is one of them. So it will start to counteract your our all humans have a natural negativity bias, it will start to counteract that and we'll start you'll start to notice the cumulative winds you have throughout the day and throughout the week. And I love watching and my clients when they start to do this initially, some of my clients are resistant. I don't know if you have this experience, but people are so used to beating themselves up they worry if they stop, they're going to fall apart.

Erica D'Eramo: 24:49

Yeah, I Yes. I think that that is such a fascinating thing to explore as well because it's almost like you know, the Marie Kondo like Okay, take that parasites think it for what it's done for you and send it on its way. And I feel like that sometimes with our hyper criticality, these voices that we've developed over time, it's probably kept us safe. They probably helped us Excel especially over, you know, high performers, overachiever, overachievers. And so like acknowledging the role it played, because we don't want to demonize it mean, recognizing that it's no longer only option, and it's probably not really serving us that effectively going forward. So exploring what that might look like. But I, I really appreciate this framing versus I know that there's a lot around gratitude. And I, I know, there's a lot of research around the effectiveness of gratitude practice. But I love this idea of like capturing your wins, that you are proud of, because it's a reminder, that builds confidence in your own capabilities. Because confident we know right? Like confidence doesn't come from just telling yourself, you're confident I hate this narrative for women, like just believe in yourself. No, look at the evidence, there's evidence there that you are amazing. Go look.

Rebecca Arnold: 26:12

And the what I would add, so this applies actually to gratitude practices, and also to practice like writing down your wins. If you write down your wins, and then allow yourself a few moments to experience the the sensations of pride in your body of having accomplished those wins, it will stay with you longer and have a bigger impact. Rick Hansen, I'm sure you've read Rick Hansen's work like neuro Dharma and the pursuit of happiness, I think it's called looking on my bookshelf. He talks about this practice of with gratitude, if you hold on to it longer, a little longer, and let it soak into your body. It has such a richer impact than just writing down a list of gratitudes. And then moving on to your email. Right, which totally makes sense, right? We hang on to it in a positive way. Yeah.

Erica D'Eramo: 27:06

I could see folks listening in and especially those like hardened corporate folks. This all sounds woowoo to me, blah, blah, blah, no, like, man, it's in this really isn't the science. And fundamentally, it comes down to surviving into the life you want to be living because so much of detaching from what's happening in our bodies and detaching from that flight fight or flight response means that are we stay in that right? We are constantly in a just soaked with cortisol, and we're more at risk for chronic illnesses or more at risk for toxic behaviors towards the people around us, whether that's family, employees, colleagues. So there are very practical and sound reasons that taking this like internal view, embracing some of these mindsets. They have like, very immediate impacts on our lives and in our performance. And yeah, yep. Yeah,

Rebecca Arnold: 28:12

I had a client who when we talked about this wins practice, they said, I don't need a parade to do my job, which I totally heard. I was like, I totally hear that. And will you? Are you willing to experiment for a week and see how it goes? Right? Just a week, there's no, there's very little cost. And we have this fascinating conversation after of the reluctant admission that it was supportive. And so it's there is very little cost to trying some of these practices and very big upside. So I have worked with folks kind of across the gamut from, you know, big law firms, to superintendents to faculty at, like higher ed institutions. And many of my clients are initially reluctant, and then they see the impact. So I hear you, I hear you corporate folk who are feeling a little resistant to this. And what's the cost, right?

Erica D'Eramo: 29:14

Yeah, I mean, there's so much power and curiosity of taking that experimenters mindset of setting. Sure your hypothesis might be that this is a bunch of BS, but you know, let's see what happens. And if it's effective, it's effective. Yeah, yeah.

Rebecca Arnold: 29:29

One piece of science that I like to give folks who are feeling reluctant is when you walk into it takes one grumpy person to ruin a meeting. Right? We know that our moods are contagious, more so than viruses even you don't need six feet with a mood, right, that can translate across a huge ballroom.

Erica D'Eramo: 29:50

Just nothing. Yeah, totally, totally. And so

Rebecca Arnold: 29:54

think about what's just what's happening in some of those interactions that throughout your day with your boss. or in a meeting with your senior leadership team or your customers. And if you were coming from a place with just 2% more calm, for example, what would be the impact of them?

Erica D'Eramo: 30:13

You know, I just had a chance to catch up with them, like a long term mentor of mine, and we were talking about, you know, just navigating traffic and stuff. And she was saying that, you know, well, this is driving on the highways of Houston, so I will give it some context. But she was saying, you know, like, I just was trying to merge on the highway, and they wouldn't let me on the highway, you know, or like, they wouldn't let me off and, and then I finally had to cut in because I needed to get off the exit. And then they got all like Rayji, and like, blaring on the horn and, and all this stuff. And then that puts me in a crappy mood. And I just want to like, cut the next person off. And this just extrapolates and goes on and on. And but she had that awareness to be like, oh, oh, I'm, I'm like replicating this now. Yeah, and internalizing it, I gotta let that go. But how many people don't have that awareness to stop and say, Oh, wait, I don't need to replicate this. I don't need to internalize it. I'm going to complete the stress cycle, I'm going to scream in my car, play some music, or do whatever it takes. But I don't need to pass this on to other people. A lot of people don't have that awareness. Yes.

Rebecca Arnold: 31:20

Yeah, what I really appreciate about your example is, it's sort of an it's an example of the micro stressors that build up throughout the day. So a lot of us think about the stress of a big presentation, or a huge board meeting, but not those tiny moments of the email that makes your stomach acid royal or being cut off in traffic. And there's a researcher named Richard Boyatzis, who studies this and he says, we have 12 of these a day or something like that. And if we're not allowing ourselves the recovery time, these are just accumulating throughout their day. So no wonder you walk in the door. Grumpy Pants, right? Who What did so yeah, so there are just so many opportunities throughout the day to build in just moments of restoration to counteract the stress, we're all swimming and all the time,

Erica D'Eramo: 32:10

which is different to then I'm just gonna let it go. I'm just gonna let it go. I'm just gonna like how many times a lot of us have built that in, especially people dealing with microaggressions you know, like having to pick your fights and deal with that day in and day out. And you stay, I'm just gonna let it go. But like, it's not it. There's a difference between actually being able to allow things to roll off of you versus just forcing yourself to censor a reaction and yeah, underlying it up, and then it comes out later.

Rebecca Arnold: 32:40

Absolutely. Yeah. It's like, pseudo pseudo processing. One of the one practice I love and this is probably, Lisa Feldman, Barrett. Barrett did emotional granularity, right?

Erica D'Eramo: 32:57

Yeah, I think she did do quite a bit on national granularity. So

Rebecca Arnold: 33:02

even just the practice of saying to yourself, I am frustrated. Yep. And just naming it clearly allowing yourself to experience that and if you need to move on, you move on. But there's a reaction that happens systemically for us of you can feel your shoulders relaxed when you validate your own feeling that you're experiencing.

Erica D'Eramo: 33:26

Yeah, we I just hosted a workshop earlier in the week and one of my like, giveaways or whatever was the feelings we'll I joked that we need to, like all print this out in in large poster format and put it on our wall so that we can walk over and be like, Okay, it's not just I'm mad, right? It's like, Okay, let's go a little more granular what is that? Because yeah, granularity and the ability to verbalize it is highly tied in the research to resilient outcomes. So, yeah, and we don't develop a lot of that vocabulary awareness in our day to day lives or society, especially not for men. Like, I'm just gonna say it right. We really don't expect that or require that a lot of, you know, the male tropes in our society. It's good for you. Because I,

Rebecca Arnold: 34:22

we have I mean, you joke, but we have an emotion wheel on the bulletin board in my kitchen that has prime real estate. You can tell I'm a coach. My kids roll their eyes, and sometimes they walk over to it and are sort of looked quizzically trying to identify which is the exact thing they're feeling. And that's what I want them to do. That's what I want for all of us.

Erica D'Eramo: 34:42

Yeah. Is it frustration? Is it resentment? Is it like enjoy all the Oh, yeah. All the things? Yes.

Rebecca Arnold: 34:49

I mean, it's both what I love about the for your folks who are feeling resistant. What I also appreciate about this naming specifically, what you're feeling is not just that it comes Our system but also, it points us toward a clearer answer. Right? If you're angry versus jealous, there's a different solution that is baked into that emotional experience. But if you're just calling everything angry, you're missing the subtlety that points to what you should do next.

Erica D'Eramo: 35:16

Yeah, yeah. There's so often when when you really get to the underlying description of it, the granularity of it, there's so often an aha moment, right? Because angry versus resentment. Okay, what is it that we're feeling? Or is it do we really want to buy into that? Is that really within our value system, or angry because I've been wronged, and I'm hurt, my feelings are hurt. That's like a totally different pathway to resolving that or integrating that. So? Yeah.

Rebecca Arnold: 35:47

So for your listeners who manage teams, if you start to paying a pay attention, in your one on ones are in your meetings to how people are verbalizing their experiences, you will start to notice what are some common emotional themes? And where you're missing opportunities to dig a little deeper into where are some solutions to what's going on for folks?

Erica D'Eramo: 36:11

Yeah, yeah, I love that. So what's one way that you would, you know, help folks to cut through all the noise, right, and to just like, prioritize, you know, what they? What's the impact they want to have on the world?

Rebecca Arnold: 36:27

So I love the question. If you knew you were gonna die in two years, what remains undone? And there's when I ask clients that question, there's, it's almost like, we immediately entered another plane of conversation, and thought, of course, right. So that's one very quick way to access it. Another approach, and I'm sure you do this with your clients, too, is visualization, and how quickly we can tap into our deeper levels of knowing and values when we kind of slow ourselves down and imagine the future that we want to create. And there's a there's a quality of conversation and insight that happens through visualizations, that is completely different from thought based questions like, what's your five year plan? Right? That's a totally different conversation, than having the experience of a visualization of imagining five years in the future. Who are you with? What's lighting your heart on fire? What's filling you all the way up? Who are the what are the relationships that you delight in? Right? There's all this that's accessible through visualization. So those are just a couple of ways. There are lots of others. But I think it really takes some awareness that we are, it's almost like our day to day life is static. And you know, when they're static in the background, you don't notice it until it's done, and your whole body exhales. That's what we're in all the time, right? When we think about all the inputs that we experience throughout the day. And it's so important to carve out these quieter moments of reflection, whether that is journaling, where you just let yourself riff, whether that is doing visualizations, or a grounding practice, there are so many ways to cut through the noise and reconnect with yourself and what matters most.

Erica D'Eramo: 38:28

Yeah, I think it's, it's also, when we talk about some of these practices like visualization, I'm sure that there's like a YouTube we could watch or something. But working with somebody who understands and can and can guide some of this can be really helpful because I know I sat down in in a session one time and it I was in a period of flux. I had a lot of anxiety at the moment. And it was just like an open ended visualization about like, Okay, now project yourself forward one year, what's happening, and I was not in the heads, you know, like I needed more structure. I was not in the headspace for that, because it ended up just like amplifying all the anxiety. Like I'm living under a bridge I have, you know, everybody's around me has died, like all these awful things. But when you have somebody who a you've worked with for a while they understand what's important, and they can help guide that process so that you're you are envisioning what it is that success looks like what does it feel like? It can help you really get clear on like, what it is that you're actually trying to strive for, versus just, you know, some title or some job or some house? Yeah,

Rebecca Arnold: 39:35

yeah. I mean, even each of those things, is the experience you want to have in those right. It's not the house. It's not the title. It's right. What are you what are those a signal for and that's what we both do in our coaching is to look beneath kind of what are those top layer things that folks are pointing to to excavate what's underneath that that they're really craving and wanting? Right?

Erica D'Eramo: 40:00

Those are the those are the means to the ends. So once the ends, because there's probably other means that might be more effective to get you there. So, no, sorry, go ahead.

Rebecca Arnold: 40:12

No, I was just gonna say I one thing that I one practice I really love is looking for where we are bringing in the How to soon. And I call it the how monster and my daughter made this awesome visual that I will I will send you a little clip at some point. But we think that how is this innocent little question that just crops up to help us plan. But what happens is before we can even articulate what we get into the how. So let's say we want a title of some kind. And then we start to riff on how but how can I have this conversation with my boss? What is that going to look like? When is that going to happen? Bob about and we just get more and more stressed before we even allow ourselves to articulate? What is the title and why and what can that look like and what is possible and what is available in that position. And then we crush any hope of articulating what we want. Because of this, how sort of picking apart energy that can happen. So I often invite people to set how aside, especially for folks who have an atrophied wanting muscle and just allow yourself to articulate the thing that you want.

Erica D'Eramo: 41:27

Yeah. Yep. And chances are it's some state of being right. It's not. And the other things are the way that you think you'll get to that state of Yeah, but yeah, yeah. So I want to make sure our listeners can connect with you and learn more and find your book. So where can they find you? What's what are the ways that you have folks connect with you.

Rebecca Arnold: 41:53

So you can find me at route with two O's, coaching consulting.com. And at route coach on Instagram, and then my book, The routed renegade will be available on any platform, you're sort of looking for June 10, and beyond. So I am thrilled to launch this into the world. And there are so many practices built into that. But there are over 50 practices in that book. And it's sort of my offering love letter to the world opportunity to have folks have a guide book to support you as you go through your journey, that the biggest compliment to me would be a having my books binding cracked dog ear. So my hope is that any of you who pick it up, we'll turn to it again. And again, when you're wrestling with different things, trying to articulate what you want looking for different practices, there's so much in there. And I would love to hear from any of your audience that it resonates with and, and all of that. So thank you for for pointing your audience there.

Erica D'Eramo: 43:00

Yeah, absolutely. And we'll link to link to your accounts and how folks can connect with you. And we'll be sure to include it in our monthly book list as well. So, so yeah, for anyone looking to find those links, you can find them in the show notes. You can find them on our website, or this podcast episode. And that's at twopiersconsulting.com. And again, thank you so much, Rebecca, for coming on and sharing all your insights and in frameworks really, really appreciate it.

Rebecca Arnold: 43:29

Of course it was it has been a delight.

Erica D'Eramo: 43:32

And we look forward to seeing everyone next episode.