08. Your Solutions to Dry January - Non-Alcoholic Alternatives

Is your January and possibly beyond dry? We explored some non-alcoholic alternatives to your favorite beverages so that you can still enjoy having a cocktail (or five since you don't have to worry about driving!) while staying on the wagon.

WHAT WE HAD ON THE SHOW:

Shelley: Surreal Brewing - Chandelier Red IPA & 17 Mile Porter
Also mentioned:
O’Doul’s by Anheuser-Busch
Kaliber by Guinness
Buckler by Heineken
Partake Brewing, Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Bravus Brewing in Newport Beach, CA
Athletic Brewing, Stamford CO
Brew Dog
WellBeing Brewery
Mikkeller Brewing

Mary: Calvits Drinking Shrubs with cranberry, rosemary & cracked black pepper

Lily: Seedlip Garden & Grove

WHAT WE'VE BEEN DRINKING:

Lily has been enjoying Glühwein, a type of mulled wine.
Shelley visited Tony’s Darts Away in Burbank, CA to try a few beers they had on tap.
Mary has been reading The Drunken Botanist by Amy Stewart

Transcript

spk_0:   0:00
Welcome to drinking out a spirited discussion about beer, wine and booze here. Your hosts Shelly, Mary and Lily. Hey, everybody, Welcome to drinking up. This is Mary. I'm here with my co host is always Shelly and Lily. Ah, So, ladies, it's after the holidays were in January. And have you guys been hearing all this, uh, stuff that I've been hearing about dry January, You dry jacks everywhere in the news this year? More so than I remember. I think I remember a little bit of it last year, but this year is just everywhere. Ah, and so if you haven't heard about it dry January is this idea that everybody should try to abstain from alcohol for 30 days in order to break the bad habits of drinking. Basically, I loved your liver, give a little love to her liver, and and also, you know, just the idea that if you could do anything for 30 days, then you'll break that habit on that doesn't mean that you need thio. Never go back to drinking. I think

spk_2:   1:12
it just it's a chance for people to just take stock, maybe of

spk_0:   1:15
why they drink. Um and is it just for pleasure? Or are you perhaps veering into towards bad things? Um, so we I think all three of us can admit that we haven't really been on that dry January bandwagon fully. Um, but I've been cutting back on my alcohol intake. Just just post holiday is just trying to get back to fighting weight and to atone for some of those sins of too much food and too much alcohol. Over the last month, eso we thought that we would keep that ball rolling and help out people who are doing dry January talk about some nonalcoholic alternatives to beer, wine and booze. But before we get into that, ladies, what have we been drinking?

spk_1:   2:07
I know, I know. Can I go for yes? Yes. Lily, Um, I

spk_0:   2:11
have been

spk_1:   2:11
drinking glue vine, and I would run loving

spk_0:   2:13
What's glue vine glue on?

spk_1:   2:15
It's a, um Often you'll find it at, uh, German restaurants. Or, um, I get bottles of it. A total wine, Basically, it's kind of similar to him. Old wine, a spiced wine, pretty low alcohol content because, um, you

spk_0:   2:30
know Yeah. Okay. I have seen this stuff. Yeah, well, here

spk_1:   2:34
in Long Beach where I live. They have a really awesome German restaurant called Russell Bach and Russell

spk_0:   2:42
s. So

spk_1:   2:44
they have a great selection of beers. Um, but they offer glue vine during the holiday season and its warmed. So it's warm and spicy and sweet and yummy and just he's really, really good. So that's what I'm

spk_0:   2:58
gonna join. Yeah, easy shot. Someone to share. Yes. Um, I have been

spk_2:   3:05
dry, but I have been drinking some pretty good stout's. I went to Tony's darts away, which is nearly an institution in the L A area. It's in Burbank. Graber. Yeah, Yeah, they're one of their great California, primarily beer, tap room, slash restaurant. And they were having, as they have usually every month in the middle of the week, you know? Hey, we have this on tap. Coming S O. They had four or five different stouts on tap. I don't recall which else doubts that they had that one non vegan one. So of course they didn't have that. But

spk_0:   3:47
just, you know, go in sample and just have one on nitro. It was like this'll sure had a friend come and we just chatted about beer

spk_2:   3:58
and you know, just enjoyed ourselves for an evening in the middle of the week, and that

spk_0:   4:02
was a lovely experience. So what have you been drinking, Mary? So, like I said, I've I have been cutting back, not necessarily part of Dry January, but just needing to get back and drop some weight. Uh, and so I've been reading a book on booze. It's really interesting. It's called The Drunken Botanist. The plants that Create the World's Great Drinks by Amy Stewart. So she is a botanist on and also a enthusiast of all things alcohol, much like us. Uh, and so she's created this book that's just fascinating. That just traces the various plants that are used in a lot of the's very spirits, primarily that that we like. What else talks about plants through Houston, beers and wines. I'm only about halfway through and images just fascinating and dense and really interesting. So anybody who wants to know more about where the things that they're putting into their body come from, it's I absolutely recommend this in. Chuck's history could help. Things are it's such such a good read. Very cool. Yeah, that's a great Segway into it isn't it s Oh, yeah. Talking more about nonalcoholic alternatives to beer, wine and booze. All right, so this is a topic that I'm gonna admit I actually do know a fair amount about just from personal experience. Uh, because until I was in my thirties, I really didn't drink that much. And so there's there's friends that I've had for a very long time who think it's hilarious that I'm doing this podcast because I was that person who really total Yeah. I mean, I drank some, but not very much. Um, and there's various reasons for that. Some of the various times, two different reasons. Some of it was personal. Some of it was health related. A lot of it was that I just felt like I just didn't have that disposable income to drink the good stuff. And I just wasn't interested in drinking the bad stuff. Yeah, yeah. Uh, and so I just was fine with that. Um, the other thing is just from a practical note, you can't tell cause you're just hearing me. I'm four foot 11 and I get drunk really fast. So and I don't like being drug right, So I'll have one glass, maybe two of whatever it is that I've decided to drink that night, and then I'm done, and I am going to switch to a non alcoholic choice for the rest of that evening. Yeah, but then smart. It is smart, I think. Pacing yourself. Yeah, well, particularly if I'm driving. Yeah, like that's That's the way that I'm gonna do it. Uh, so this is a really fun episode for me cause I feel like I get to learn more about the various choices, and maybe I haven't thought about it for nonalcoholic alternatives. So with that, let's get into it. Let's do it. I am actually quite

spk_2:   7:16
excited about this episode because I did a bit of research into nonalcoholic beers, and it has a very long history. Um, it actually starts back to Prohibition. So in the early 19 teens, um, it was referred to as near beer because it had to have a very low a B V in order to be sold without breaking the, You know, the Constitution. Right? So these beer's traditionally started out, um, as beers that had an alcohol by volume or a B V of 190.5% or below, and that moniker is still used today when ordered to categorize, Um A and a non alcoholic her in a beer.

spk_0:   8:06
The thing is, anything

spk_2:   8:09
that's fermented is going to produce alcohol. It's just that's just the chemical process that it that happens. So even if you get kombucha in your grocery store and you know you're like 12 years old, it's probably going to please don't you know, drink it. 12 years old,

spk_0:   8:24
it's probably going to have

spk_2:   8:25
an alcohol rate of about between 1 to 3% but in a beer's tend to be much lower than that. It's just the the gentleman's agreement of the standard of what a nonalcoholic beer is. It is about half, half a percentage in below. There's some that are 2% and all that kind of stuff. But when I was researching this and I was seeing that they've been around for nearly 100 years and I was seeing their recent resurgence, I started to wonder, You know what people were doing and why they were trying to have nonalcoholic beers as part of their lifestyle, and a lot of it is people want to be more health conscious nonalcoholic beers tend to be much, much lower in calories than your normal beer, which is roughly around 90 to 120 calories a glass. Most non alcoholic beers are between 30 and 50 calories a glass. People want to be sober with their lifestyle, but they still want to socially drink. So you get mocked tails and you get you know, your wine spritzers and you get your non alcoholic beers. And people just want alternatives. Ah, the thing about nonalcoholic beers is there made exactly the same way as your regular beers. The difference is in the finishing process, Um, when beers air taken out of the If you when there's air taken out of their their final bright tank or fermentation tank, depending on the style of beer there, then taken through a process where they are re cooked again so they but it tend. You have to separate the alcohol from the beer, and the way to do that is to cook down the beer at a much higher temperature than what the beer was actually made to begin with. So beers that are that are cooked for non alcoholic purposes tend to be cooked at about 185 degrees. Where is the actual purpose, or the actual highest temperature? Beers roughly or made at is roughly 170 175 degrees. The cooking of the beard down and evaporating the alcohol is the most traditional way to do it, but you lose a lot of the flavor. You lose a lot of the characteristics, you lose all the carbonation and you kill your yeast, so to do but to do that, a lot of those things were reintroduced. Not everything, because if you add yeast back to your beer, it, confirm it again. Again.

spk_0:   10:52
Yeah, but a lot of them add

spk_2:   10:54
sort of a foe, carbonation or carbonation to bring back the to bring back the bubbly nous of the beer A second way that beers are D alcohol ized is called deok allies, which is a filtration system where it's a much more expensive way to do it. And a lot of places don't do it that way, but they they filter the beer through. A lot of different filtering process is to extract the alcohol and again leave a syrup that again is re sort of constituted to leave out the alcohol, the cook down process. They just cook it down until the alcohol is gone and they measure the A B V. And then, like all right, it's below 0.5. Let's get it back up. Um, the the the colonizing process is pretty much the same thing. It's just one has been done forever, and one is not. Now. These beers taste very different from your regular alcohol beer, because that cooking process, basically flat, is that it totally changes the profile. So a lot of these beers will have a different makeup to begin with when their brood, Maybe it might be a way just chaotic, and then it's cooked down and it might be a little bit more mellow. But the thing is, this thing is that the nonalcoholic movement in beer is getting huge. It's estimated to grow by 10% in in the market in the next couple of years and a lot of play, and we in the U. S. Are way behind this trend. There are a lot of breweries overseas that just primarily deal in non

spk_0:   12:30
alcoholic beers, and a lot of the major

spk_2:   12:32
big beer companies actually already have nonalcoholic beers. I have a small list right here

spk_0:   12:37
in particular country, usually Denmark and your German years for Germany. Germany has a lot of non alcoholic beers. I heard from a friend in Ireland that Ireland no has these two per super strict drunk driving look. Yes, they do, yes, and and I'm wondering if that's I've heard about that, too. It is

spk_2:   12:59
it that that is a big catalyst for people wanting a lot of non alcoholic beers. But, I mean, there are some non alcoholic, nonalcoholic beers that have been in the U. S. By the big breweries that you can get now, like Caleb Earth by Guinness makes that's there. Nonalcoholic beer. There remains one. Heineken makes Buckler. And of course, everyone knows the rules and, oh, dual frying Budweiser. And you know, it's just like you make those. But I also found a list of non alcoholic breweries that are actually in the United States and like we're in in in America, like North America in the United States, you have partake during, which is in Ontario, Canada, you have brava spurring, which is in Newport Beach. In California. You have athletic brewing company which is in Stanford. And then you have what we're going to sample today, which is surreal brewing in in Campbell, California That's just a drop in the bucket because a lot of traditional breweries breweries are actually making a lot of non alcoholic variants of their beers. Um, brutal, which everyone knows has a chit ton of different nonalcoholic beers. Wellbeing

spk_0:   14:12
Brewery has nonalcoholic beers McKellar has not. McKellar

spk_2:   14:17
has quite a few non alcoholic beers, and I'm just like that's just the tip of what I could find in, like an hour searching.

spk_0:   14:24
So it's it's going to be a big deal. Yeah, I mean, it's going to be I I sort of like

spk_2:   14:30
in it to the vegan movement, Um, where it's just going to be a thing that people like, what nonalcoholic beers you have, you know, and it's just going to be as common knowledge as anything else. I just find it fascinating because I think it opens up the Avenue of challenge to a lot of breweries. Like Once you have your beer through the process, how do you get it to be as flavorful or as as sought after as the traditional beer because they don't taste the same. I've sampled a couple of these, and there is a difference in how they taste. But they appeal to an audience that might not want, um or they appeal to an audience that doesn't want an alcoholic beer, but they want to have that same type of experience. So

spk_0:   15:18
I have to today

spk_2:   15:19
from Surreal Brewing Company. We're going to try their chandelier red I p a. And then we're going to try their 17 mile porter. So I got these two because usually nonalcoholic beers tend to be your loggers and pale ales or something like that. And I wanted to see how the process handled a beer that's supposed to have a really robust flavor. So we're gonna crack

spk_0:   15:43
these open. And the thing is, I found these at Whole Foods thes weren't in some

spk_2:   15:48
bottle shop way in the corner anywhere these were in your regular grocery store. And I'm like, So we're gonna crack open the red I p A. And I have to say, give me just a

spk_0:   16:06
little bit. I want to. I'm very curious. I've had this

spk_2:   16:10
one, so I'm not gonna sample this. Well, my example from McCann, but I'm very curious toe, you know, Do it smell of it and think

spk_0:   16:17
it's got a beautiful color. Yeah, the color is beautiful. The head is lovely since

spk_2:   16:21
it didn't re carbonate it. But this is this whole can is 30 other galleries. There's a 12 ounce can. So what do your thoughts?

spk_0:   16:31
It's kind of I think that's the idea. Idea? Yeah, yeah, I would

spk_2:   16:39
say by itself, this is incredibly flavorful. It is for a non alcoholic beer, but if you compare it to a style with alcohol, it it tastes.

spk_1:   16:49
I think that's almost unfair,

spk_0:   16:50
though I would say that's debatable. I understand what you mean, because I totally

spk_2:   16:57
respect this as as its own and as itself. But a lot of these beers try to compete on the same level as that's true, as as a, um, as a regular.

spk_1:   17:08
But admittedly, if I wanted a red I p a. You with my first thought is not who I should get a non alcoholic right. If I'm gonna order a nonalcoholic beer, it's because that's primarily what I'm looking for is the alcohol content and totally surprised to find Yeah, this Yeah, you know for what it is. I think it tastes really good. Yes, I would

spk_2:   17:28
agree for for a non alcoholic beer that goes to that reheating process, and them again is rejuvenated a bit. They dry hop it at the end to give it that extra punch. It's, I think it's quite successful. I mean, this buried, that's what they do is nonalcoholic beer. So I'm like, That's that's legit. I can't I can't. You know, I totally respect that. That's really, really cool. So

spk_0:   17:51
I haven't tried the board. I mean, it's not bad. No, it's not number saying it's bad. Yeah, but I mean, I'm not going to say it's something I would necessarily seek out. But if I was looking for a non alcoholic something that's like that, that the nonalcoholic beer, it's a good it's a good choice. I think, like I mean, I drink and it's fine. I didn't I didn't say I'm gonna go throw this out, you know? Yeah. I mean, it tastes like an I P A. It tastes like

spk_2:   18:20
a very light I p A. If you have a palate for these types of which I don't write, so this you might taste this different, then. I mean, I wouldn't do it as you were talking about. I wouldn't do a comparison for each one, like side by side. I wouldn't have an i p against this one because they are. You know, it's apples and oranges, but even though they come from the same plant, so it Zaveri and I get what you're saying. But, I mean,

spk_0:   18:46
if you were to

spk_2:   18:46
compare them, Yeah, it's it. We would taste a lot weaker, a lot

spk_1:   18:51
lighter. This is certainly betterthan. You know, the last time I remember trying non alcoholic beer, my thoughts were Why would any I mean, it just didn't dance.

spk_0:   19:03
Oh, this This is definitely come up. This is so light. It's good. This is This is formidable. Yeah,

spk_2:   19:09
for four in the non alcoholic beer sphere by the other. Yeah, Let's try the other one. You guys were empty. Your

spk_0:   19:15
glasses don't drink too fast. Ladies, I'm just saying Yeah, I know. Now, this one I haven't had. So this is a

spk_2:   19:22
porter, and you all know I actually love darker beers, So I'm very curious about how this one tastes.

spk_0:   19:31
Where is this? Made this man can't gamble California both. Isn't that Northern? Was that Northern?

spk_1:   19:40
I don't know. I'm not a native Californian, so there's a lot about California geography that I just don't

spk_0:   19:47
know.

spk_2:   19:47
It definitely has, like, a roasty nose to it.

spk_1:   19:50
It does. It does. It is like a coffee. It does. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

spk_2:   19:59
No, not bad at all.

spk_1:   20:01
I'm getting a little bit of smoky

spk_0:   20:02
necessity. Like when I was very smoky. This I like this. Yeah, that's been e like this. These are someone these air. Very solid. Yeah, well, something. And you're obviously not alcoholic, but, you know, But, like, I might mix a little something in to just give it a little bit more of Ah, mouthfeel. You're saying there's a little bit of a hollowness to It was a holiday. Yeah, and I think that is just something that is that kind of nature of the beast. Yeah, they really there's I don't think

spk_2:   20:34
there's going to be a wayto to compensate for

spk_0:   20:36
that. Maybe just put, like a splash of, like, almond milk in here or something. Maybe. So you're thinking of this is like it's a coffee. Coffee? Yeah. It kind of just like that. Like Like if I had coffee on Nitro. Great. If this were on Nitro, though, that would be I think this is the kind of legit, but I think that would sort of give some of that creamy mouth feel that you get when you were that seems to be missing from this for me. Yeah, I can see that. Especially with of the

spk_2:   21:04
other porters and darker beers that we've had it like, I think that, as you were saying, Lily is the nature of the beast. Yeah, there is. There's a There's an emptiness that I've had maybe five or six nonalcoholic beers. And while they were flavor profiles can be quite robust. There is, like a hollowness inside the flavor that I think is just vanished because of the process. Now, alcohol doesn't necessarily add, actually doesn't add, um, flavor to your beer, but it does enhance whatever flavors you you have in the beer. But the process of getting this mount alcoholic

spk_0:   21:41
destroys a lot of drinking everything. Yeah, so it's it's how to overcome that. And this is an essence Beer

spk_2:   21:49
juice. I mean, it's like it's

spk_1:   21:51
well, I was enjoying it.

spk_0:   21:55
I mean, that means that I get that a lot. It is. If I was looking for something a substitute, this would definitely be a good choice on your right. Really? Compared to what it was like years ago. Yeah. Yes. This is nine day difference. Yeah. So I think

spk_2:   22:13
I I am very excited about this market of beer. I just I love to see alternative spring upon all of horizon, and I'm just like, Oh, my gosh, I can't wait to see what comes out because And I don't plan on, you know, being a non alcoholic beer drinker at all. But

spk_0:   22:32
I want to know how waiting they compensate. Claim not. I'm so excited about that evening. Where you where you do want something from you. I just I think it's a fascinating

spk_2:   22:42
exercise just in chemistry alone to try to make these

spk_0:   22:46
because the goal is like with meat

spk_2:   22:48
alternatives to make it tastes as much as the originals. You can, because you don't necessarily just want a market of people who aren't going to drink alcohol. You want to appeal to ah, market of people who would. So I want to see how this market overcomes that, and I'm really excited about it. So

spk_0:   23:07
thank you, ladies. Thank you, Shelly. So let's talk about some nonalcoholic alternatives to wine. Yeah, it's a challenge, right? So they do make the the alcohol removed versions of wine. Um, but they're nowhere near where they are with with beer. I think that they're the wine industry with that is still very much like way back when you're saying that there wasn't a lot of alternatives for the non alcoholic wine. I think the wine industry still way back there. Um, they do exist. There's a few of them on the market. Um, I'm not a fan. Uh, number one. I don't think they taste very good. Well, not the big thing, you know? Yeah, I think that taste good. But the other thing is just being aware of the reasons why people don't drink. Um, they do still contain some alcohol. It's just a much smaller amount. And so while that's fine, if you're somebody who just wants to have less alcohol in your life, that's fine. But as faras serving it as a wine to people, Oftentimes there's people who can't have any alcohol for health reasons or for personal reasons. And even that small amount of alcohol is gonna be a problem for those people. And so I, uh I really was hoping you want to find something that we could come up with is an alternative that is truly free of alcohol, not just less alcohol. It still tastes, but still tasty and reminiscent of wine and reminiscent of wine and the like where this is going and I'm also as a wine drinker, I'm gonna admit that one of the things that I really like about wine is that is that it allows me to be lazy. All I have to do is get a corkscrew, open it up and pour it out. And then I have something delicious to drink. Good point. And so, like, Lily sent me a really good recipe for sangria sangria, and I looked at it and I was like, There's way too many things here. I asked you news using oranges for the rest. It's red. It's good. I looked at it. I have no doubt. I have no doubt that it was good and I will make it sometimes. But But, um, But this week I was. Hey is known. Today was not that day. Um, so when you're looking at a lot of those premade substitutes for wine, then you end up with things like Martinelli's, which we're all familiar with. Super sweet. It is. It is tried and true. It is. And you know, I will say, If you're going to do something like that, you can make it fun In my family, the kids always got the Martinelli's at holiday parties, and my aunts and my grandmother gave us her own little plastic, uh, champagne glasses. So it was like we were included and we were part of it. And and so that was a really nice thing. And Martin Ellie's and things like that. Those air good flavors. But they're not like wine. Yeah, admittedly, only in this for you.

spk_1:   26:36
It was something that was done for you when you were young. When I was a kid, right? You weren't of age to be able to drink and that something like Now, when I think of Martin, Ellie's like, I like the flavor. But then I I feel like I need to sit at the kid's

spk_0:   26:47
Ted the Efficacy Eyes. It's just all it is. This you just juice like it's just is carbonated Just super sweet to Yeah, I can't get over how sugary. And that's another thing, right? Is that if you're looking to cut back on alcohol because of health reasons, substituting a whole lot of sugar probably not is really fixing the problem. You're just trading one problem for another problem. Uh, so I did look at those substances those juice substitutes, though, Um, and I was disappointed to find out that there was to that I actually thought did work that although they were juice, they kind of sort of tasted like when I was just trying to find out that I couldn't find them when I went looking for than a similarly avail. They're not is readily available, but I'm I'm gonna mention them. In case you do find them, um, they're worth getting. Um, so one of them is an apple mango sparkling juice from Martinelli. And it's that mango is an interesting flavor, and there makes it a little bit more like that. Most scott oh, kind of kind of area.

spk_1:   27:54
Why? Don't feel just like I'm having. I'm having apple juice, right? The

spk_0:   27:58
other thing was a sparkling pomegranate juice from Trader Joe's who and you can make, like, your own version of those pretty easily, like, just, you know, go get those juices mixed them together with some club soda or seltzer water, even just regular water. And there you go. But again, you're gonna have that. They think they're gonna just be sweet. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. So I thought we would experiment with shrubs. What? No, that's not a shrubbery. A shrub. OK, so, Lily, are you familiar with shrubs? Familiar with what? I'm stumped. Oh, that's hard. How? All right. Well, I feel I feel I need Goldstone, so no, I didn't know what a shrub was, either. I was actually, uh, hanging out with my cousin one time, And he was a bartender at one point in his life, and he handed me this, and he said, Here, drink this. What is this? And he said, Just drink it, it'll tell you. So I drank it and and I said, What is this woman than I stop? Things work in my family so head Thank you, Kurt. By the way, if you're listening and on and I drank, It was like, This is really good. What is this? And he said, it's a shrub otherwise known as drinking vinegar, and that's what that's what. That so it's It's a really, really old thing. They were super popular in the colonial era, and all it is, is it's and a stringent syrup basically that's made from fruit, sugar and vinegar. And then you can add in whatever you want. You can add in some urge you can add and spices other fruits, whatever you so you can really play with it. Play with kinds of vinegars that you use, uh, and get all of these really interesting flavors. Now, the thing that's interesting about using a shrub is a substitute for wine. Is that wine, as we've mentioned before, isn't acid right? And so is a shrub. And so you'll get some of that Mel feel that you're missing when you're just having the juice substitutes. So what I've done here is shrubs. Very easy to actually make your own. I'm gonna give you Ah, in the show notes, one that you can see a couple different ways. I'm gonna just opened up this club soda here. I bought this one online from Amazon. This'd is Calvet drinking shrubs. Uh, this is a cranberry rosemary with black peppercorns, which your flavors that are actually pretty common in a lot of different wines. So we've got the herbal nous. So I just poured a little bit in. I've got this club soda that I opened up, and I'm just gonna pour it in. It's about, like, you know, one part shrub, four parts wine. Here are soda, So I'm sorry for parts soda. Thank you. You just let it sit her. So everybody has already got some that I've given you. All okay? And it's I mean, it's not exactly why, but if you look at it, it looks exactly like a rose. Yeah. So if you're wanting to not have people bother you for not drinking alcohol one evening, you can walk around with this. Nobody will know the difference. Uh, and if you give it a little sip, it's not exactly going to be the flavor that smells like hypocrites. Yeah. What's hypocrite? Well, you know, I don't You can still make. We'll just You're talking about all this

spk_1:   31:45
and you said a drinking vinegar and I'm like So, like a hypocrites. Hypocrites is a is a drink that's ancient ancient drink, but it's usually wine and spices and so forth, but it can sometimes have, like, a vinegary element to it s Oh, that was a thing. You know, you're talking about the shrapnel like ha. So to me, it just reminds me of of a hypocrites, which I mean, it's funny. I had to Google search, you know, Schreibman, hypocrites and all of that. And the other both. Apparently old old drinks, both of them. So that's kind of interesting. They might have a common root. Who knows? Probably. D'oh. Yeah, because, you know, it's not unusual for hypocrites to have a vinegary at least the hypocrites that I've had. Yeah, have a little bit of a vinegary flavor. Some do something, not

spk_0:   32:28
somebody you know. And you know, the nice thing about this is I mean, this is just one that I picked that has flavors, and I I like I like this lot. I don't Shelly took fresh to accept earlier, and she said she thought it was a little aggressive. Yeah, I couldn't pinpoint

spk_2:   32:42
the vinegar tastes, but now that you said that my Oh, that's what I'm responding to. Yeah, Miss Farr's secrets. So I diluted it a little bit. Exactly. Now I'm like, I I can't get it

spk_0:   32:52
right. And so that's the thing you can You can adjust for yourself exactly what it is. And if you're making your own, this is just one kind of shrub. Yeah, you can get them in all sorts of flavor combinations, or you could just make your own. They're very easy to make there just a little bit time consuming because you need to let things sit for a while, Um, and so you could just easily play around with that.

spk_2:   33:16
And you could make what ever kind of combinations you

spk_0:   33:18
like. Ah, and his wine drinker that that's appealing because there's so many different kinds of wines out there that you can play around with. What are those flavors that you respond to in wine and try and match those with this drug? Uh, so that's my contribution. Really nice. This was This is really cool. Thank you. Oh, and I should mention, Although shrubs are made with sugar, there's considerably less sugar in this glass than you would get from a juice. And so, if that's the health

spk_2:   33:49
reason that you're trying to cut back on your uncle Hall, this is a pretty good way to go to still get

spk_0:   33:54
that flavor cool. What we drinking, Lily? Well, um, I was

spk_1:   34:03
thinking about doing something that is kind of on the forefront of, you know, mock tales, non alcoholic spirits, that sort of thing. Because, like, you know, we probably all have those memories of Maybe you were a kid near the year two restaurant with your family and your aunt asks for, like, a virgin Dockery or something like that. And I didn't want to go that route because, you know, if you're just taking something and just simply removing the alcohol what you know, Yeah, I just don't want to go there. So I actually decided to make a a concoction. A cocktail, if you will. Using a product from seed lip on, you're probably doing what seed lip. It's s e d l I p. They're a company that their tagline is. I think it's what to drink when you're not drinking there. Specifically trying to make distilled beverages that are non alcohol.

spk_0:   35:00
I've heard of that s o they have

spk_1:   35:04
I You know, I don't

spk_0:   35:05
know the

spk_1:   35:05
science behind it. Um, they have a pretty interesting website. You can go and kind of take a look at a little bit of it. I don't think that they get terribly into the science of it, but it's clear that the the the movement behind seed lip is very similar to what you were talking about. Shelly, with the idea of more and more people are wanting to be part of the, um, the social scene that is kind of centered around drinking without the issues with alcohol. And they may have a, you know, a number of reasons why they don't want the alcohol, and that's personal, and that's theirs. And that's totally fine. Um, but I think it's really great that there are folks that are taking a look at the situation and saying, Well, you know, Yeah, you could just go and get like, a Lyman soda or something along those lines. But it's fun when you can have some that feels maybe a little special, a little unique, a little different on, and I think that's kind of where they're coming from. They currently have on offer three different spirits, one that they call Spice, one that they call Garden and one that they call Grove the Spice. I haven't tried the spice or the grove. I've only tried garden. That's what I have. A new attempt to get a bottle of spice yesterday at Mother's was a very interesting experience. It did not work out very well. Bless you all at Mother's Signal Hill for putting up with the crazy lady. Um, that was looking for

spk_2:   36:28
this because the website said it was supposed to be

spk_1:   36:30
there. It's fine. Um, anyhow, though, I did have a bottle of the garden, which I thought I would give a try. Um, you know, way back when when it came out and I like it, but it is definitely different. Much like the non alcoholic beers. It's definitely different. So what I did is I used some of the garden you ladies can give that a try, and I basically made kind of almost like a a slight Tom Collins asked. Sort of cocktail very verbally. It is. That's the thing about the garden. There's pea shoots time. Yeah, yeah, yes, you really do. You get that Very, um, you know, uh, grass grassy. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0:   37:17
So that was the thing I wanted to play

spk_1:   37:18
on that without it being too bitter or flat, or I wanted to have a little something to it. So, in this case, what I did was I took some of the seed lip garden. I added some simple syrup. Well, let's think just like if you were gonna make it. Tom Collins. You know, you you start with your spirit. Usually, Jin, you add simple syrup. You add fresh squeezed lemon juice. You top it with a little bit of soda. Um, that's a lovely sound. Um,

spk_0:   37:52
so yeah, much like with

spk_1:   37:55
the non alcoholic beer. It's a It's a different type of flavor. It doesn't taste like alcohol unnecessarily.

spk_2:   38:03
It's like it's trying to carve its way in its

spk_0:   38:06
own unique thing. Exactly. Exactly. But it doesn't bother me as much in this case. Maybe because with cocktails, I'm so used to there being ultra different flavors and unusual flavors. Anyone,

spk_1:   38:18
huh? Yeah. So I don't feel like I'm missing anything here. Some of the simple syrup may have settled, so if you want one, that's a little sweeter There's still a little bit in this glass that's a little sweeter. Yeah,

spk_0:   38:32
it's really nice. So I will. I just This is just

spk_2:   38:36
fascinating me so much. It's like we are exploring different flavors that are to also be included in the drinking experience. Absolutely that lack the alcohol. Fascinating.

spk_1:   38:49
I very much I'm a big fan of inclusion. I feel like rather than turning people away at the door, you build a bigger table, you know? And that's something that I think this this movement is really trying to dio is it's trying to find a way to to bring more people into the experience. I know that there was a time in my life. You know, Mary, you've said that you were kind of a teetotaler for quite some time. There was a time in my life where I pretty much didn't drink it all. And I still remember some of the social push back that I got from people. And what's nice about this sort of thing is, um, I feel like it's changing the way we talk about drinking in the way we view drinking, because, like their logo, even seed lips are not logo their motto is, You know what to drink when you're not drinking there really wanting to make sure that this is something that when you go to certain bars and restaurants, you can order a cocktail that's nonalcoholic. That isn't something where they just simply took out the spirit right?

spk_2:   39:50
It wants to be its own independent entity beside what is traditionally known as alcoholic right. And that is what I find that's

spk_0:   39:59
made it an amazing Charlie made

spk_2:   40:01
entire nonalcoholic movement or whatever you want to call it. It's just it's not always trying to duplicate right what has been done. It's also trying to carve in each for something else.

spk_0:   40:14
Exactly to me. It's

spk_1:   40:15
almost like they're taking this well, lack of, you know, a bad pun. Sorry. It's

spk_0:   40:21
almost like they're trying to take the spirit of spirits, you know, that's the

spk_1:   40:24
thing they really are saying. Well, we're not going to be Jin, exactly. We're not gonna be vodka, exactly. But what we can do is be what we are be a distilled spirit that doesn't have alcohol that has a unique and interesting flavor that gives bartenders and mixologists an opportunity to play an experiment and in the same way that they would with other spirits and botanicals, like especially in the gin world. Right now. Botanicals air huge. So this with the pay note there and the ER basis nous to it like this is really on the forefront of the future of drinking in many respects. And I said, I'm sorry they didn't have the grove or the spice that we could also try those. Um, it

spk_0:   41:08
just seems like it seems like right now that their

spk_1:   41:12
distribution, they're still, you know, they're still growing and expanding and so forth. And so I think that we're going to see even more of them. Like, don't be surprised if the next time you're at a restaurant, you see that they have a special cocktail on offer from that features one of the seed lip, um, beverages. Because it's it's

spk_0:   41:30
pretty cool. Yeah.

spk_2:   41:31
I really, really think school. This is quite interesting. I could Yeah,

spk_0:   41:36
it's what to drink when you're not drinking right now. Drinking. Thanks. Lily. She think lettuce. I say I am really thrilled with this episode. How you two. I've learned a lot. I've got new ideas and feeling healthy. We're definitely

spk_2:   41:55
doing a part two of this because I just find it fascinating that what I discovered when doing this is it's not necessarily that the nonalcoholic beverages are trying to mirror copy the alcoholic beverages. They're trying to get a foothold in the space, has their own entity. And I just think they're doing a good job. Like with the distilled. Uh, alternative that you brought in was incredibly interesting. And I'm thinking I would have a lot of cocktails with

spk_0:   42:29
that. It is not trying

spk_1:   42:32
to mimic its not trying to spirit. Yeah, it's trying to

spk_2:   42:35
be itself, but it can be just as formidable in different respects. And I think that is

spk_0:   42:42
so cool. Yes, well, and you know, I think I mean, sometimes I think we drink alcohol because we just don't know what else to drink. Yeah, And eso having these alternatives now in my head makes it a lot easier to go in and then feel like, Okay, you know what? I'm not feeling it. I'm not feeling like having an alcoholic beverage tonight. Now I know what to order. Yeah, thanks. Or maybe just like it's at a

spk_2:   43:12
point where they are justice Let's see what you owe someone so has a drink. It just happens to be non alcoholic. I

spk_0:   43:19
think I'll have that for the I just I don't know that that thrills

spk_2:   43:24
me. I think it's so exciting to see that alternative come to play and be so widely accepted so fast.

spk_0:   43:30
And not to

spk_1:   43:31
mention that all of the things that we've talked about tonight are great things that everyone should consider the next time they're hosting a gathering or a party. Yeah, I firmly believe that when you're entertaining, you need to have something that isn't just the plane iced tea or soda. You know, if you're going to the trouble to have a special bottle of wine or a really amazing beer that you've cell

spk_0:   43:53
erred. Think of the people that are there that, for whatever reason,

spk_1:   43:56
have decided they're not imbibing that night. And if you can make something special for them, that's awesome. So my next party, I might have some of these near beers. You might have some of the shrub just because what a wonderful way to help make everybody feel included. And there's something special and unique that they get to try Oh, man. This episode has been

spk_2:   44:18
Yeah, very enlightening in just a joy to see all these amazing, tasty, like, flavorful alternative. Exactly. So

spk_0:   44:28
and it's really nice that we're gonna be able to like to drive home. Yeah, it's good. So thank you all for joining us. Don't forget to rate and subscribe, and we will see you next up. So cheers, everyone by to find out

spk_1:   44:44
more about what we drink this week, check our show notes and to drink along with us. Next time, follow us on Twitter, instagram and Facebook to get your menu.