Moblox: Making money with Piers Linney - ex-Dragons’ Den Investor and C4 Secret Millionaire

Get an inside look at the mind of a successful serial entrepreneur and investor.

Former Dragon, Piers Linney shares his upbringing, mistakes, and what really drives him in business. 

In this interview, he shares his personal story and key insights on starting and growing businesses that will fascinate and motivate any founder or aspiring entrepreneur.

Key Takeaways

- Pursue what you enjoy and collaborate with people you like working with

- The importance of pivoting or starting anew if your business isn't working out, as the first venture often serves as a learning experience rather than a financial success.

- The vision for Moblox and what the future holds in tech and AI

Have questions about this episode? Ask our hosts, chat now via our website

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Oh my children actually said do eat good and what you like doing try and find that Venn diagram with a to overlap. But in business what I've decided to do things you enjoy and do people enjoy doing it with you're listening to founded and grounded with Ollie collard and Laura Rawlings. The podcast brings you the honest realities of startup life. If you're a founder or aspiring entrepreneur, this is for you. We know running a business can be lonely and tough at times, and we want to help you get ahead with simple tips and sound advice. Every fortnight we hear inspiring stories from an early stage business owner who's only a couple of steps ahead of you, talking about what they've learned. And as your hosts we share our own insights and experiences as founders. So you can apply this to your own business Hello, and welcome to the founded and grounded Podcast. I'm Laura Rawlings hosting alongside Ollie collard business startup coach. Ollie how're you doing?

Ollie Collard: 1:18

I'm doing really well. I kind of battled the snow to get here this morning into the office. But um, yeah, it was a nice surprise waking up to it being white everywhere.

Unknown: 1:26

I know. Welcome to spring, you've just got used to a daffodil and here comes the snow and a mini blizzard. But it's only gonna last a short time isn't it can't get too excited. So today our guest Well, what a selection of things that they've been involved in. Honestly, if you look at their Instagram handles or their you know, little Twitter bio is pretty impressive, isn't it by anyone's standards, so reveal who our guest is Ali?

Ollie Collard: 1:50

Shah can Nora so I spoke to piers Linney who probably needs no introduction. I'm sure most people are aware of his background. But there are definitely some things when I was talking to him that I wasn't aware of in his early career and childhood, which were really interesting. So yeah, really looking forward to our listeners hearing more about what piers has been involved with.

Unknown: 2:10

Well, should we jump straight in there, actually, and rewind back to the young piers and find out what he was up to.

Ollie Collard: 2:21

So piers, thank you so much for joining us on the founding ungrounded show. How're you doing this morning?

Unknown: 2:26

Thank you for having me. I've managed to get some kids together have been aboard my stepsons gaming mic. So, so I can give you some quality audio.

Ollie Collard: 2:36

Fantastic. Before we dive into your new business, moblog Spears, I wanted to find out a bit more about what got you to this point. So you're best known for obviously, being a dragon on BBTs Dragon's Den, you started off as a solicitor investment banker, and also featured on The Secret Millionaire, but what got you hooked into the world of business in the first place?

Unknown: 2:58

So I, as long as I can remember, I've always been interested in sort of entrepreneurship and entrepreneurs. So I was, like most kids, one of my favourite subjects of schools history. And I grew up in the in the north of England in a mill town, right. So I became quite good at judo at my school. So quite an interesting background for where I started away. I ended up in the city in Oregon stuff. But my history teacher, Mr. Beaumont, who's no longer with us, but he's telling us about the entrepreneurs, the mill owners and, you know, the industrial revolution because it literally started where I grew up in those valleys. And he's pointed out the window at Mills and weavers cottages, why they're big windows that daylight so they could, you know, do their job. I was fascinated by it. I was also fascinated by you know, Carnegie and the sort of the US slightly later obviously, in the US great entrepreneurs, you know, the Vanderbilts and always fascinated me so, but like any entrepreneur, often what makes you gets you going you want to make some money. So I wanted a shiny BMX were formed acquit in 1986 with quite a lot of money. And my mom did, he saw my mom that were working class and they became middle class if you want to put people in boxes, and I wanted to buy this BMX and they say to me, if you're in half, it will pay the other half the cut a very long story short, my first business was I disintermediated, a local news agent. So I was when I was doing paper rounds, five pounds a week, six days a week, when it snowed it covered your car in those days, literally, like when I grew up, and I thought is this gonna be a better way? And my dad one day said, can you get the paper on a Sunday, they didn't deliver. And I'll give you a tip. So I've got his paper by came back gave a tip for the business there my neighbour said do the same thing. And I bought this paper and I bought the papers and the wholesaler, not the news agent locally because when their margin if I did that, and I made like 20 quid for one morning. So I learned quickly that you know, if you've got if you find a niche and opportunity, you can add value to someone's life. And the other bit which is the bit that people often forget is a lot of hard work there was flipping hard work, delivering those papers and sortie on a on a BMX. As I get older I got a car does it in a car, but by that time it wasn't cool toilet paper. And so that was my first exit. I sold it for 200 quid. And then after that I was doing those. I was doing this kind of similar smelling perfumes at college selling those made a couple of grand went to Barbados. It was always kind of like a way of making some money to do something that I wanted. I wanted to have this will be out of my financial reach law school I was forming companies didn't company formations. As a trainee solicitor, I was doing film financing. And my friend he went on to become the CEO of Lionsgate Films, because the whole of Europe, which you've probably seen if you watch any films at all, and what else and then when I was a banker, Credit Suisse, I was doing instead of what the corner side hustles on the side businesses, not hustles take them seriously. And that became my first sort of.com and reason why I left the city. So I was drawn to a question which I haven't quite done yet. And to answer your question, I've always kind of been in business, I've always been trying to make some money. I also my first business actually that I started even after the paper round, we just kind of always there was a candle Believe it or not, he saw candles by mail order. This has been added like the sort of elaborate candles Easter like those to glow at night before he could survive in Tesco. And they can buy them anywhere. So that kind of market went through that window. But my mum, my mum models when my parents, dad was a working class Mancunian lad, he went to Cambridge. But in those days, you came back as well, you didn't get to join the Club. And my mom was a nurse, very entrepreneurial. And she ran the local slimming club. And when she would say she started a candles hence sort of similarity in the interest, candles, accessories, business and flowers. And that turned into a 17 year long wedding flower business, my dad was a driver. So my mom was entrepreneurial. But when she was a young black woman in Barbados, you know, she wants to work in finance, and you couldn't be able to be whitelisted a white Bayesian, so she became a nurse the NHS and there's only was until she retired, she can actually really become an entrepreneur and start in business. So that's, that's where it came from.

Ollie Collard: 7:02

Amazing. Parents love to hear that, you know, you want it that BMX and you started a business to do that. And you obviously got the the 200 pounds that match funding that your parents were going to contribute to get you that BMX, and obviously, that entrepreneurial gene and that interest and that curiosity stayed with you. After that as well.

Unknown: 7:20

40 years later, whatever it is, I've got a mountain bike company. So I'm now making selling bikes, just shows you came full,

Ollie Collard: 7:27

full circle. So moving on to mo blocks, if you could tell our listeners exactly what problem you're solving, and how have you validated that problem.

Unknown: 7:38

Yeah, so I am I used to own and run the UK is largest b2b airtime providers, or mobile phone contracts for businesses. Basically, it's just the tail end of the kind of.com.com The mobile kind of land grab, you know, make, make some billionaires I know one of them reasonably well, John Caldwell. And I kind of thought it was quite a dirty but old school business in a way, the way it was the way it was put together. I was always quite surprised. I mean, come from the city. We'd all very shiny, very professional. And I got out of that business. But we simplified it and we got out of it. Anyway, fast forward about two years ago. And I was sort of in business, but not really where my businesses, I would have been an investor really. And I was kind of pulling away I was on the border, which is business boundary and COVID. So all the COVID loans and bounced back and went from 10 billion to nine did all that stuff. I'm on the board of skived joined another board of a cartel yet but a very last automobile manufacturer, and advisory board and I was doing these things I thought, You know what, I made money along the way. But I wanted to find a market as we all do. Large market big opportunity ripe for disruption. Hey, how easy can that be? And I was doing desktop research looking at this. And I came back to this telecoms market. I went see a friend of mine, a good friend of mine. He's still in the market. So how to make money. He's Oh, well, people have to go out of contract to go abroad. And basically, they're still ripping people off. And I thought, I can't believe that still how you make money these days. And the epiphany was the bank, the Neo banks. So if you think of the Neo banks, what have they done? They've taken existing infrastructure, banking infrastructure, back Swift, right? Good stuff. The telcos have, you know, telco infrastructure networks, back then do you built a layer above that use of API's to sort of integrate integrate into it, and then put a much more customer centric, software driven layer on top, you know, styling business tie bank, that's what they are. And they've they disrupted to some extent the traditional banking market and I thought you can do that and telecoms exactly the same way it but the telcos are probably even more behind in the banks due to process culture and nurture systems, billing systems, you know that the whole kit and caboodle so it looks down I thought, right. I'm going to create the the styling the Monza. It's not it's kind of consumed away. A lot of small businesses are prosumers that the tide of telco. I went to BT took me 12 months and to deal with them. But the biggest issue is this is that and you'll be aware of this and listening to this, if you're an entrepreneurs that small businesses, entrepreneurs, right, you're busy putting fires out, there's a huge amount of technology out there that you should be using to make yourself more efficient to build your revenues and reduce your costs and make you more productive as a keyword. And UK businesses are not as productive as they should be. Because I'm bracing tech. And why is that? Because you don't understand it. You know, when I asked people why to buy that application, I asked my accountant, or my mate had it, which is not always the best way to make a purchasing decision. So the idea by moblog is really is is we're kind of providing one to many content, because you can't do that one to one, I'm going to build you a rack and sell the hardware software and support country anymore. The cloud software services Kilda, we do want to make the content to small business owners and entrepreneurs, founders, probably sub 10 employees, our target is that it's the mass. And through that content, you can make better purchasing decisions about technology and business tools. A business tool might be access to legal precedents, right? It's not software, and then you buy that from us or through us, either, when it's from us. In some cases, the market is so broken, the services are so bad, we are reimagining them ourselves. So the first one I built, which millions made me started going great with why I'm wearing a baseball cap is that is mobile. So mobile is so old school people have been unlimited contracts you don't need. The average SME user these days in the UK uses six click of data, you're being ripped off hundreds, hundreds of pounds a year. They're not built for small businesses, you get consumer service, you get charged more to have a business contract that tie into 1224 month contract who needs that these days, flexibilities you know or in flexibility is what kills small businesses and startups, you want maximum flexibility. So I've actually built leaving our Mo blocks mobile is a mobile phone network for small businesses and entrepreneurs. Yeah, it's very different the contents in there. And we're gonna be adding more services quite soon, probably by the time this goes out, even so, HR support, legal support IT Helpdesk, counting, support elearning, you name it. And eventually we'll have more tech services. So broadband, basic kind of cloud call service, cloud based core services. So the things we're building have all kind of telco focus, we're going to resell core services and broadband, Microsoft 6365, that slack, Google that kind of stuff. And then the big ones, the marketplace, to the marketplaces, you know, we might talk about 10. Or we might have a chat like this about if you're an expert in accounting software, 10 different times and based on your budget, ambition, scale, growth, all that good stuff, number of employees, you choose one, and you buy it from us. And then you know, the provider gives us some kind of kickback for that customer acquisition. So there's three levels of service. But we've started with Mobile Apps Mobile, because that's been the most complicated integrating tool now when we're the first b2b, mobile provider in the UK. So that's mo blocks in a nutshell. And the idea is, well, I really want to build and today think about is what is it, it's a community of small businesses and entrepreneurs, and that what the aggregate said is buying power. So I can then go into the market with x 10,000 100,000 150,000, or more small business owners and entrepreneurs and say to brands, right, give them laptops, that gives them X, Y, and Zed, and it will come as what Groupon should have been. And last thing is that we're also moving into leasing. So we're gonna look at leasing devices, from phones, to laptops, to even even white vans. Because there's another market there full of intermediaries to handle that use car salesman that I want to disintermediate. Well,

Ollie Collard: 13:39

there's a lot to unpack there. I mean, obviously, starting with the telecom industry, and being the first to market and disrupting that, but it sounds like a whole range of services, which fundamentally is going to make it easier for small business owners founders to access technology, and actually implement that in their own business life.

Unknown: 13:58

Yeah, so eventually, the idea is, you can this is our kind of strap line for the future, run your business on mo blocks. So essentially, you can come to my blocks, get objective advice. If our services aren't for you, we will sell them too. And if they're not good enough, we'll make them good enough. But objective advice about what you should be using to maximise the potential of your business and minimise the time you spend on faffing around things you shouldn't admin. So it makes you grow your revenues, reduce your costs, and that bit in the middle is profit income dividends is what puts food on the table. Or it's what allows you to go into your next round of finance. Basically, as you proven something that nobody wants to go I want to create the first real SME and include startups in their brand because if I asked you is the one in the UK there isn't. And what my profile does is lend itself to that because you know what it's like building a business is lonely. It's hard work. Often your family and friends haven't got a clue what you're doing. They don't understand why you're doing it. So we're trying to be of the community as well. And that's something that if you look at the Neo banks, they try and do that you don't have to build a community of a bank account. Anywhere you can build a community around your ambition, you know, your dreams, your lifestyle, and this business that you want to build. And that's what I want to do. And I've been doing this for free most for nearly five, six, nearly a decade, even created a business course, which you can get free to join Roblox, we can talk about blood within it for free. So it's a way to really bring everything I know, everything, I've done everything I'm interested in learning it together into a business so that I can get out of bed and do. And because I've been on TV, I've been a drag and everyone thinks, you know, everything's easy, you know, you can snap your fingers and money appears, you've got all the cash. That's not the case, this has been a real grind, actually, building it. And raising money has been more expensive, take longer and more complicated all the things that founders face. But the differences I've been there before, so I can kind of, I kind of know how to deal with it. And kind of, you know, maybe boss myself down and crack on was a lot of people struggle.

Ollie Collard: 15:58

And we'll come back to some of the challenges that you faced along the way, in part two of the podcast peers, but just picking up on something you said there about building that community, which is an integral part of Mo blocks, I often think the word community gets bandied about and often confused with, like an audience. So what does community mean to you?

Unknown: 16:18

So, good question. Right. So I asked myself that question. And what I've learned along the way, if you're listening to this, is reached out to people that know more about stuff than you do. The danger as an entrepreneur, Ben and myself, is that you think you know everything, and you just don't. So when I think about a community, I was reading some of the research put out by Andreessen Horowitz about social social plus social first fat community first. And, you know, the brands of the future are built around communities or you look at influencers, you know, sort of people on YouTube churning out brands left, right and centre, after community in a way a bit a bit of a loose one. Now, a lot of the large corporates use communities as a way of reducing essentially their support overhead, because that's where, and one of the guys who would help me was the guy that started the Giffgaff. He was one of the guys that created the Giffgaff community. He then went into Telefonica, and created communities around Telefonica, from expertise that he gained, and his Spanish spotted out of Telefonica. It's called standing on giants. And they basically build communities for large brands, Airbnb, Lenovo, we worked with them did a workshop, and the people actually mentored my community managers to fit. And we built this community around a true community about, you know, people coming together, sharing insight sharing, you know, sharing their successes, showing their failures, and actually creating value, not somewhere that we're going to be knocking on the door of everyday trying to sell something, we always say that you're probably going to come to moblog for the content and the services, but you're probably going to stay because they're good, obviously. But also because the community and you get access to me as well, some extent. So that's what I've committed to most of your community. Now, when we started writing community software, I thought, this is a waste of time when it was me focused on revenue base code. So we're probably going to integrate now we've been doing some work and integrating all singing and dancing community, API driven, some sort of part of our website that will probably hold maybe the app we're kind of working out how to do that's one of the one of the key things about building any businesses, you know, which battles do you choose to win or lose to win the war. And I would love to build my own community software and have it all fully integrated with find someone's in this API driven, we can get the authentication, right, we can deploy we segment which is kind of measured a kind of record, every single activity and action happens across your, your applications, your platform. If you can do that. That's good enough for us. Let's crack on. So the community is really important. Ours is quite nascent. We're going to come back to that. But I think that is the key to brand one is about content marketing, and building a community around your service.

Ollie Collard: 19:06

Just to come back to something you mentioned earlier in the conversation about your role as non exec director of the British business bank. They do lots of fantastic work. And I've got first hand experience with this being advisor with Virgin StartUp and biz Britain is on the startup loan scheme. And just wanted to ask for maybe listeners not aware of the startup Loan Scheme, what does it provide? And what are the benefits in regards to applying for a startup loan?

Unknown: 19:34

So startup loans was separate. It was in a rolled into British business bank, and that is if you haven't heard of that, that's the UK development bank. So join COVID That's where you know, the Coronavirus business interruption Loan Scheme came from bounce back loans and the kind of convertible loan scheme for tech companies and post post Brexit that's where all the cash is going to come from, that the European funds used to provide Now started playing the game back to that which I forgot you've heard your stuff actually, that's, that's one of the big delivery partners. So British business bank is not a bank, you can knock on the door, and they'll give you a loan. You know, it's done food delivery partners, from the high street banks, to venture capital funds to debt funds to Start Up Loans. And I can't remember the numbers now, because it's been a while, but startup loans is hundreds of millions have been provided to young businesses. And the average loan there was interesting is about 7000 pounds. And it's a personal loan, it's not not to the company or the business is to individuals, up to four view can apply. And I think it's up to last time I looked 25,000 pounds, so you could technically raise 100k There were six brothers that once met, he started gin company, I think they all got the maximum. So they were there, they're probably the outlier. is huge, because what it means is the injury got a slightly chequered, you know, not completely jackin. But if you got to check it out, or trouble, credit, credit history, they can work around that, you'll know this all you get a mentor for what you use, and you get a mentor to help you get through the process to help you, you know, maybe construct a business plan, understand the financials, and get the business going. And I've met so many entrepreneurs along the way, just randomly in different places and say, Well, how'd you get started as a startup lens. So if you know and building a business often is about having that initial capital. And if you're, you know, you're lucky, you're born in the right postcode, with about parents, they can write a check for you, thank you very much. Or if you had a job where you save some money, you could do that. Not everybody is in that fortunate position. And this is a way of accessing capital, about seven on average to 25,000 pounds or more if there's more of you, that can really help you go from not being able to start a business to starting one. Because these days a lot of businesses involves technology, not lawyers, companies, their their restaurant and any technology, but a lot of them. Most businesses, there's a period of time wave investing before you can generate revenue. And that's what helps you overcome it Have I got that right, because you're probably even more experienced, I am

Ollie Collard: 22:07

100% pairs nail on the head there. So talking about people who maybe aren't as fortunate of others who have parents that can fund their businesses, and maybe talking a bit about young people have maybe gotten a bit of trouble with the law, because I know you do a bit of mentoring around young people in prison. On Monday, I was at an institution called Vinnie green, which is a secure children's unit and delivering a course called Learn the legal hustle for a company called Street to Boardroom. And it's all about helping young people use the skills that they developed on the road and actually apply them to running a legal business. So my question to you peers is how can we support more young people to start legal businesses rather than going into a life of crime.

Unknown: 22:52

I was a secret millionaire in 2011 on Channel Four. And I spent my time at least what they recorded. There was other stuff I did what the recording put on TV was, I was in a prison. So I learned quite a lot about the kind of the psychiatric, and a lot of the young lads are in prison. And this was the old lads in this prison. That was the youngest young offenders actually. And were actually one of the lads they got to know very well on the programme and wanted to sort of help. The producer didn't want me to write him a check clearly. Anyway, he got out I mentored him didn't mollycoddle him, he did his own thing. He's an entrepreneur for a while, I gave him a job, I made him redundant. That was quite, that was quite an awkward day. And he now he's earning more money than I do as a cloud infrastructure engineer with a family. So that just shows you one slight point is that that extra little nudge that bit of social capital I provided him networks access support someone to talk to, it's like a bullet, isn't it? When it's millimetre off here 2000 metres downrange, you're not gonna hit a house. Whereas if you just change someone's trajectory slightly, you can completely change their lives. So one of the issues is, I was a lawyer as well. So I'm not sure whether a lot of people in prison are going to do jumping into legal careers. Because it can be quite difficult clearly, because if you one of the issues about having a criminal record is that you know, a lot of the world in which we live tends to restrict what you can do. And that is not a good thing. Look at look at Daniel is his name. He's a great example of someone who's very talented. And if Adam met me, you know, his entrepreneurial skills, because he does have them, who knows, might be used in different ways. And a lot of these kids in there are very talented and very entrepreneurial, but a lot of them can't read. I mean, it's as bad as that, you know, they literally can't read and because you can't read, you can't fill out a form. You can't apply for anything. And he's gone this vicious, vicious circle. So I think things are getting better. People are beginning to understand that your pure history doesn't necessarily predict your future. So even the professions now are being more old. pin to allowing people to apply or go through the process. Whereas in the past, they wouldn't have done. And what it actually gives you often is, when you're on that stuff, I've met people that have gone into kind of kicks, community and just companies and charities, legal legal base to help people who have had been in trouble with the law, or are sort of stuck in the criminal justice system. And they have an insight that, you know, the people that grew up in the right postcode don't. And that's the difference. And that's where diversity and that's one of my things I'm very passionate about the diversity and inclusion board at Sky. Diversity in all of his storm forms is really important throughout the whole of society. And one of my my quote is, the one I put on my wall is put an RC for quote is ambition, right is evenly distributed. Access to capital, network and opportunity isn't. And whether it's law, or whether it's technology or whether it's running a bakery, I don't care until we connect the ambition with the opportunity without friction. We're not wringing as much out of our economy, our society as we can. A word about our sponsors. As a founder, cybersecurity isn't top of your priorities. Yet Alliance has identified cyber threats as one of the top three risks facing business globally. This is where Nova blue comes in. Its founder Steve Mason was technical director with GCHQ he was in charge of keeping the nation safe from cyber threats. He set up Nova blue to help keep businesses safe. Nova blue are offering founded and grounded listeners. A free cybersecurity health check. Simply go to Nova hyphen blue.co.uk forward slash podcast offer there's so much in that Olli. I mean, what an interesting career right from the early days of paper rounds and perfumes. Goodness me from the legal side to understanding you know, or the money side of things being a banker, his parents, wow, what a package of skills and experience.

Ollie Collard: 27:21

Yeah, it's always interesting, where it all started about wanting this shiny BMX and finding a way to actually get some money that his parents would then match fund by that bike for him and actually being really entrepreneurial at an early age, and that's quite clear in lots of entrepreneurs is that they've actually fostered that entrepreneurship from a young age.

Unknown: 27:43

Yeah, and it doesn't change when you get older, as you'll hear later on, he's still earning money so that he can get himself nice mountain bikes. It does make me think as a parent, it's one of those where like, oh, right, okay, how am I going to try and encourage these sorts of skills? In my little one, we've both got small children, who will soon want pocket money. Okay, we want them to sort of need to strive for this a bit. But yeah, plenty to think about in that.

Ollie Collard: 28:08

Yeah, I always look back to my child. And I always did like car washing one of my mates and I kind of selling old toys on the on the road outside on a mini stall and things like that. So I'll probably try and pass that on to both of my children.

Unknown: 28:22

Plus, I've got a vision of you with a little cardboard sign, we were the same, but lived in the middle of nowhere. So no one came, which actually is a very good lesson, you know, you need to be where your potential buyers are, or nothing's gonna happen. Let's move on then, and start to delve into what Pierce has got to share when it comes to some of his favourite failures and some of the challenges along the way. What might what cracks me up is not sometimes though. It makes me cry. As I sit on these podcasts, I've got a business course and you're supposed to be dragging the bit on TV got all the flipping answers, you know, what could go wrong? And I sit there and I think I've just done what I tell people not to do. And it's so frustrating because, you know, in, in starting a business building a business is the Donald Rumsfeld analogy, isn't it, it's the known the known knowns, they're easy, you know, the deal with a minus unknown unknowns that's about research and, you know, reaching out and finding out what you need to know and working hard to know. But what makes you an entrepreneur, the unknown unknowns, the things that you don't even know you didn't know. And they're gonna crop gonna come and bite you in the backside. And, you know, for from contracts, to recruitment, to infrastructure design, to UX to fundraising, you know, I've made little mistakes and all of them along the way. Some big mistakes, but you know, if you're more experienced, you can kind of see it coming and correct it. I think one of the things was is that is staying, the Aqua focus on the sort of the marketing the outreach and the funding is staying very much involved. moved in the design and the UX and that customer experience because of that user and the user journeys, because the end the day is kind of my vision. And I understand that the best. So I've got more involved in that more recently, I was getting a bit too detached from it, and then the other people do it, well got more involved into that detail, then none other. That's not how I think this is gonna work. And what I've learned the hard way is, and again, I'll say it again, entrepreneurs sometimes think you know, everything is to listen, you know, listen to people, you don't expect to listen to a lot of people, they they know you. And they know how you think and tick, when you tell them what you're doing, how you're doing it. And so I wouldn't be like that. You might think well, what the hell's my mum know, but then are you. So listen to people, get out, get out of your look, get out of your garden, shed in your what your lab coat, and listen to the world, talk to your target customer, we did a lot of research, primary research. One thing I did, and I did try my business course why you shouldn't get free sign up to my blog, is actually tried to go through the initial process. So I did, thank goodness, do a huge amount of research because I thought, I'm going to commit the next five to 10, seven years of my life to this. So I'm no guarantees, any business is going to work. And NK you're on a on a very, very successful entrepreneurs that have started a business for okay, I can do an adjacent business quite similar over here. And therefore after two years, Ned and Wharton just no candidate. And I thought I need to do the research. So I literally, when I'm talking to investor, I'm pitching to investors. Now, it's a lot of time doing that. And when they get interested and want more context and information, I can roll out my 70 page research document, which goes through the backend. Now, what's interesting is is fascinating is looking at that about this term, like during COVID Actually looking where we are today, and it's an 80% there, but it's moved on and it's moved on and evolved, somebody wasn't quite right. Because I talked to people. And most of my investors, people involved people I didn't know previously, because they have a different skill set and a different different interest and expertise and what I needed. So to answer the question, almost everything, I haven't got completely wrapped, you never do. But the key thing in the thing that I really enjoy is working with and building a team. And that can be really hard, especially now if you're trying to hire developers, you know, flipping revolving door, but now it's taking a bit of a spinning door. But I've got a great team and team on to sort of help become successful with me on the business.

Ollie Collard: 32:36

Really refreshing to hear appears that you don't have all the answers right as a, as a seasoned entrepreneur, that the unknowns of the unknown as you're saying, it's how you react and how you call upon other people. And listen, as you say, is a fundamental skill that you need to employ to be able to learn. My next question is, who do you call when things aren't going to plan them?

Unknown: 32:55

That's one of my issues is I don't really have people since I've had some, some mentor that put me some billionaire put me under their wing years ago, and I've never had that. So my main my, my role model was not quite mentored my mom and dad. Now I've had people along the way that I've learned from so I've I've always enjoyed working with people that are better at doing what I'm doing now, usually my boss, and that's I've learned from so now I've kind of built a team of people that are more expert than I am, which is clearly what you want. And have to me I have a lot of investors on my investors actually who are experts in different parts of the business. None of them, though, have the overview of the other kind of vision, something that we were trying to create. But if I have an issue, I will try and reach out to people for least a second opinion. But often you don't have that luxury and you have to use the data that you've got the information, you've got the context that you can gather and make a decision. And the key is to make decisions. It's not just the key there gets stuck in some loop. Many decisions and all damage, any decision almost not quite anywhere, are considered any considered decision is better than no decision or indecision. And you have to soldier on and you know, a good day in business or building a business is you know, you might make five steps forward. Hooray. We'll find them three going go three backwards the next day. And some days you'll go six backwards, but overall over time, you're making progress. And eventually, you this is why you know you call them seasoned or seal entrepreneurs. You've just seen mistakes or similar mistakes before so you can kind of see them coming and you're able to sort of you know, turn the hopelessness in or tanker but you know, turn the ship before we hit the rocks. But it is it is it's exactly what the great thing is. It's actually exciting. Because it wasn't it's it's fascinating. It's exciting. It's it's this what I love and I keep saying to myself stop starting company Nice, because I'm getting to offer now. Some of them, I probably will never see them launch one day. But it's it's what what fascinates me is, is the process about a business and finding the customers and the marketing. And that's the key to it is is learning so what I what I am learning a lot about and reaching out about now is the marketing side of things. I'm no expert in digital marketing, right I've one of my marketing I've done is been in a b2b sales as people in Aldi, selling stuff. And I've done digital marketing, you know, few companies have been involved in but never in a business myself. People often call me a tech entrepreneur. What am I Tech has been enterprise integration. I've never, I've invested in tech companies, but never really built a real software driven company that was very focused on an app, basically, I've never done that myself. So there's a lot for me to learn. But I have the history, the experts experience most in places kind of to bring together but even then I will always try and reach out to someone who knows more than I do.

Ollie Collard: 36:02

And just to pick up on something you said about businesses all about decision making. And sometimes, particularly if you're a first time entrepreneur is about actually just making decision. And I can't remember who said it, but sometimes just getting to about your 50 potential, then making that decision is more important, rather than getting to that 100% point where you have absolute crystal clarity. So have you got any advice for how you can encourage founders to make better decisions?

Unknown: 36:30

It's interesting one, isn't it. So my my natural state, if you've watched me or you know, you've probably met me now is shoot from the hip. I'm quite, I'm quite got a comeback to Catholicism. Interesting point on that. But I've been trained, I'm a lawyer, ex lawyer, ex investment banker in the city, to going to Manute detail if I have to. So yes, you can shoot from here, you know, be the be the you know, you might be that extrovert salesperson that just cannot do detail, you know, you just can't. So you've got to find someone that can otherwise you have a problem, we have to be able to you know, eventually is getting get into the detail you're thinking about about gut is often you can make decisions using what they call you a gut reaction. Now, think about that is that I can't make a gut reaction decision about which engine to put onto a rocket to fly to my house, because I have no experience of it, it may or may not get my cat to do it, you know, put his poor on a choice. Having said that, if it's about software technology, you know how to how to put an agreement together with somebody a partnership, because I'm not a lawyer, but an entrepreneur for many years, understand a lot of that. So in a way, your gut is often just your subconscious, assimilate all that data and help you make a decision. So sometimes if you've got the experience, gut reaction is not a bad thing. If you haven't got the experience, you probably just got stomach ache. So be very careful about that. So the question, though, is what are you making decisions about data isn't it's about putting together as much data and context as you possibly can. If you can reach out to people great. If you can't, you can't, don't worry about it. And, and then using that data, you have to look at the situation, and then try and make a decision. And if it's contractual, you can then try and reflect and sort of reduce the risk by how you structure that agreement or that contract. Because there are ways in which you can do it, which you know, share the risks. So if you're not sure, you might not get a better deal, you might have to pay, you might get less margin, or you might have to pay more depending which side of the fence you're on. Because in the contract you built in more risk aversion in a way. So think about it that way, think about right. I think I understand that I'm willing to make a decision. But can I can augment that decision can augment the risk in contract are in the agreement. And that's what law is really that's what commercial agreements is. That's what warranties do when you sell a company when investor invests they, they assume you've told them the truth, but in case you haven't, in case you don't know you have, or case you don't know, you haven't even they have a warranty, they have a disclosure letter. And if you haven't, or even if you didn't know you haven't, they can claim against you to adjust the valuation or the price to pay for your business. That's what warranties are, it's an adjustment mechanism. So you can always adjust it in the contract. But at some point, you to date, you've got to make a decision. Don't just spin around in circles because you just don't get an offer. As a founder, you're gonna think that all I ever do is put out fires. Well, yeah, that's what it feels like. Because that decision is essentially you have to make right only I think there are two things in here that I want us to kind of pull out and have a chat about. And the first one is what he said about making decisions about getting better and faster at making decisions because that is something that really is at the heart of it, isn't it And as the founder, the person who sets it up or if you're there, you know, with someone else, there's so much of what you're having to do is to get on and make decisions. And it's not, that's not everyone's forte, at the start

Ollie Collard: 40:12

knows that it's not easy. And I think particularly if you've, you know, worked in the corporate world for a while, and you still like having official channels and people to consult with and teams of people doing specific jobs, then you might not make decisions on a daily basis. And I think actually getting into the practice of decision making, it does take time, but you do get faster, you get quicker, you get more confident. And I think the key point that I've already learned is that you don't have to be 100% on something, if you just get to 50%, it saves all the worrying and tooing and froing in your mind about what the best decision is going to be. And actually, you can move on and use your brain power elsewhere. So be confident with making decisions quicker is probably my my takeaway from that.

Unknown: 40:56

It is something that I feel I am learning, I do find that quite hard. I'm naturally, you know, if you're one of those people who's used to doing loads of research, and you have to check loads of recommendations, first, you will find this much harder, or if you've invested a lot in it, you know, maybe it's a family business, or maybe you've put in a lot of money. And, you know, there are some big decisions where things really do change. And it might feel like there's no going back from so although it sounds easy to say, it's not I know, I have a lot of empathy, actually, because I know it isn't actually easy to do. But what you're saying about your brain power, you know, it's so true. And this is something I think about a lot as well as trying to make quicker decisions, it's partly about closing the loop on something. So if you imagine having loads of tabs open on your computer, which I am guilty of, then you need to learn to shut them, close them so that you can think about something else that's like finish the task. And then you can not think about it anymore. Otherwise, your poor little brain is having to keep working on stuff all the time. Or, in my case, my poor little brain is having to keep going over stuff all the time. And, yes, ultimately, a step has to be taken to move forward in one way or another. So maybe it is about breaking it down into the smallest next step rather than the big thing. But honestly, I just think that is such good advice. And also just that appreciation, that being a founder is about putting the fires out it is you are on the front line of it, you are the one who has to decide. I think that is that's the reality. And you just might not realise that necessarily, when you start up a business and you think, well, I want to help people or I want to make this product or you know, naturally you've got a series of decisions that you have to make, especially at the start and you're getting stuff up and running. And you'll continue to have to do that as well. So get comfy.

Ollie Collard: 42:51

I think if you're sitting on the fence with a decision, then it means that you'd like to say you can't move on to the next thing. And because you've got to make so many decisions on a daily basis, you simply have to go with it. And you know, no decision is ultimately final, I think if you want to pivot or change or reflect and you realise that it's a mistake, then you can do that. And, you know, so I think actually going with the confidence that you're going with your gut feeling and the initial decision you make that will enable you to become a better founder, and make better decisions for your business.

Unknown: 43:23

Yeah, I know, you know, Pierce has helpful advice here is around getting into the detail about, you know, putting all that data and information together in order to make some of those decisions. But in the past, when I found it really hard to make decisions, I remember signing up to a business course and having loads of business ideas and just not knowing which one to go with and thinking this is such a big investment, I have to make it right, I can't, you know, spent the money I'm gonna put significant. And then I just have to say, look, if you think all of these are equally good, then you're just going to pick one, and then you can either roll it out nine months down the line. But at the moment, you risk sitting there trying to think about which one is going to be the right one for nine months and not actually moving any forward. So I just gave myself permission to just try for one. And if it didn't work after a fixed amount of time, then just let that go.

Ollie Collard: 44:19

And I think it's such an important point, it's about actually seeing what the market decides because ultimately the market is the most powerful decision maker for you. So if it's not gonna flow or have legs, then you're gonna get that feedback pretty much within the first couple of weeks and months. So rather than agonising over these decisions in your head, ultimately it's pointless because the market is going to tell you so you just need to get to that decision quicker.

Unknown: 44:45

Yeah, you're you're so right on this Ollie. Actually I do. take on board what you're saying definitely as well as our the guests that we speak to. Let's move along and hear our final section from Pierre, shall we? So this is where he's looking ahead. Thinking about what he wants right now he's not thinking about it, he's got a very particular set plan of what he wants to happen over the coming years with Roblox. So mobile, so the thing is, is that we spent a lot of time building the platform. So We've abstracted our front end from the code, we've got a telco integration. So we can pick up the front end and move it overseas if we wanted to. So a lot of its built in the design, built the platform. We've then done our telco integration, which is very, very complicated. Imagine the billing of you know, data and minutes and overseas calls. And it's very complicated. So we kind of build that. So now we've got the basics and ask question about what do we build on top. So every other service we add, is more API driven, to how we integrate it, it's more than about the the UX user experience. So then we're adding services to build revenue, and ideally services that our customers want. So we're going to talk to them about what they actually want, and how they want them to be deployed. And then it's about in any recurring revenue business. So in recurring revenue business, if your churn is 5%, and he reduced it two and a half percent, your business will be twice as big in terms of revenue in five years, that's that's the mass, then it gets into retention. So in terms of other services good enough, is the community active people feel as though they're part of something that we offer them value to our membership through getting deals off brands going out building a base, because some buying power, so all of that, and then it's rolling out services. And hopefully, then the idea eventually is the marketplace is that you don't just click a link, we get an affiliate commission is that you actually provision the services on the mailbox platform. Now say that today, nobody might ever want that. Who knows. But that's the vision is that you actually run your business on mobile Oxford in five years. And I think that if you can build this, this community, this base of founders and small businesses, with real, real traction, they're really engaged. And we're providing services that really add value, you know, the better basically is, the better, the simpler, the cheaper, and the more flexible, they're the key things faster, that's the business of real value. And then we get into partnerships is, what I want to do then is for people to be able to, you know, sell it to their friends and family. If you think about it, I only if you're a founder and a small business owner, I want to build relationship with you, I want you to trust my blogs love what we do, join the community get involved, then I want to sell services to your network, your your employees, your family, your spouse, your kids, you're like a node to the adult population. This kind of link that back to the mailbox model is B to b2b, it's B to prosumer 75% of the UK is 6 million small businesses on one person, but it's also b2b to see as well. So that's the model I want to roll out. But I want to create within five years of real the SME, small business entrepreneur brand in the UK, that is my goal. And that's through content I want I want to build an industrialised machine of generating content. So almost I want mode looks like almost like a small business entrepreneurship. content publisher, so you know, videos within content, are content gets great traction, quick dwell time, people read lots of it, they stay on the site for quite a long time. I'm dying ID lives you know, but my, my, my following is, uh, okay. But it could be a lot bigger.

Ollie Collard: 48:28

Okay, it's gotten better and okay, because surely

Unknown: 48:32

800,000 People have millions down there. But to me, it's not really about the quantity is the quality isn't

Ollie Collard: 48:38

an engagement, isn't it in terms of facilitating those conversations between the community and building that affiliate model that you're referring to there? There's now an opportunity for you to ask our listeners the question pairs.

Unknown: 48:50

So if you're a startup or founders, and even under small business owners, as a as a, as a startup person, thinking of a person starting a business or founder, what are the core services that you think you that you know, you need, but you struggle to understand and implement? And what are the top three? Is it communications? Is it is it customer relationship management software? So is it tough to sell? Project management, you know, planning, what, what are the tools that you these are the things I think most businesses need? But often there's a lot of these things out there now Software as a Service Cloud, which is the one that you struggle with the most

Ollie Collard: 49:33

crazy stuff, because we get some answers to you on that one as well. One of the key parts of the founding ungrounded show is asking our featured founders distilling down just one piece of advice you'd pass on to somebody who is an early stage founder or somebody thinking of starting a business so what would your one piece of advice be pairs?

Unknown: 49:54

There must have been a few pieces but of all into one. So one is do it in a way because I think there's a there's a business and everybody Hey, everyone's gonna be in business in a generation, you know, the kind of a zero a contract is the thin of a fat wedge. And that's the way the world's going. Companies don't want employees, they want people who that provide services to them. And that's a business. That's number one is do it, whether it's a side hustle, if that's we're gonna call it or you actually drop everything, start business and do it. And the other thing is to realise is, is that even though you think that your new business is the one that's going to help you buy an island, right, and you put everything into it, be aware that in most cases, that's not the case. In most cases, it's not the first business that is the one that makes you you know, you can I was reading I was away with John Caudwell for 70th birthday, which is a whole other thing, go look at my social media, you want to laugh? When you want to see me and leather and lace or that toga? Go look at my Instagram. And he, you read his book is, it's about the making of a billionaire love, pain and money. So go and get it if you haven't yet all those proceeds go to Cordwell children. And his background is he started selling Belstaff jackets in Stoke, which I never knew where Belstaff starts because I'm from stoke as well. Then he was started then he was selling used cars, I was used car salesman for a decade, almost him and his brother. And he started selling mobile phones because he couldn't make a phone call from the car auction. And the and the car dealers could need a way of communicating back to the office or to call their customers who wanted a certain type of car. And the rest is, as I say, is history. So, you know, mobile phones wasn't John's first business and most entrepreneurs, that's not the case. So there comes a point. And this is the piece of advice, that comes a point even in your first business where you think hang on a minute, I've got a better idea, or I've seen a different niche along the way, or this isn't working out is don't hang on to it for dear life. You know, I will say I've learned as an entrepreneur and I suffer from this as well as you chase rabbits down holes and you go too deep before you can't get back out. Sometimes fill it in and move on.

Ollie Collard: 51:53

It's the entrepreneurial journey of where it leads you next and I think the the average age of a successful founders about 45 Isn't it so it's not going to

Unknown: 52:01

know them. But I'm 51 so I'm 51 so I'm just on the wrong side of that bell curve, but not too far. Not too

Ollie Collard: 52:09

far. And you've had lots of past successes peers so we can definitely count me on that one. And where can people find out a bit more about mo blocks.

Unknown: 52:18

So you can join go to mo blocks.com M OB ello ex mo blocks.com If you join get access to the content, but you also get access to my course for free and my courses. My course where people ask them ask me for business advice all the time toilets, restaurant trains, I'm asleep believe notes in front of me, believe it or not. And I thought I'm gonna make a few videos because I get asked them questions all the time. I'll make a few videos to answer these basic questions. I mainly retentive so I ended up doing seven to six lessons 10 off hours I made a course. I can't base myself on the internet stuff flogging a course. So kind of rolled into moblog. So it is tuned to quit. I've sold it for 500 Quite a few people is to quit normally. But if you start to move blocks, you can do it for free. You get our content and go to moe blocks.com forward slash mobile and move to mobile ox mobile want to support small business entrepreneurs, you want to better mobile service. Want to be part of the mobile's community. Sign up. If you've got a Simoni contract, sign up today, if you're in some stupid contract you've been locked into when you get out of it, and diarize and then sign the one and move to us.

Ollie Collard: 53:24

I'm sure there's going to be so much value in that course that you've curated and obviously giving away for free which is incredible.

Unknown: 53:31

And it nearly It nearly killed me making that course Allah. So the amount of the most value people get out of it makes me makes me sleep better at night.

Ollie Collard: 53:40

Go sign up then people. And lastly, peers if I knew you better, what's one question I would have asked you.

Unknown: 53:46

And interesting one is funny how the world the world takes your life takes you on journeys, but I'm into mountain bikes. I haven't read them off by yourself. Honestly, I need to get back on one. And I got a DM from G. Atherton, which is like getting a DM from sort of Lewis Hamilton if you're into cars, they all want to start a bike company to have a chat. Anyway, fast forward. I must be four years now we crowdfunded it built a business, 3d printed titanium and carbon fibre mountain bikes. And now we're at full capacity. So that's interesting how just your hobbies and what I found with a piece of devices. Instead, it's my children actually said, Do what you're good at and what you like doing, try and find that Venn diagram where the two overlap. But in business, what I've decided really is that do things that you enjoy not just about making money, because you might, you might have spent 10 years doing this, on average, Do things you enjoy and do people enjoy doing it with that can be applied to other things, but I'm talking about business.

Ollie Collard: 54:40

Well, thank you very much for all of your insights and wisdom that you've shared on found underground. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on. Thank you for having me.

Unknown: 54:52

Shall we start Ollie picking up off of that? Shall we start by trying to answer what piers has put out as the question And to our listener, I know we'll we'll return to the social side and just to take but he said about, you know, as a startup, what are the core services that you need, but struggle to understand? I think this is really good. And I if I just think about what I've asked for, it's often when it comes to legal stuff, you know, things that I don't have a clue about, if someone says, Oh, can you send us your terms of whatever it might be? Terms of call it that terms and conditions? Well, I've got some now for one part of my business, but I don't actually have it for another. I wouldn't I don't have them when I host events, for instance. And I've and a friend asked me, they said, Oh, if you've got a copy I could borrow? And that's like, what actually no, I don't I've always worked with people that I kind of know. And then I thought, well, actually, I don't always know all of them that well, I thought maybe as I have that, for my hypnotherapy clients, I should do the same. So yeah, for me, it's very much the legal side of things. As soon as it comes to anything legal, that can be copyright as well, that kind of thing. Me Not that I've got anything that I'm about to do. But in the past, that's certainly something where I thought I don't know enough about this. And someone is more than that. There will be other people who do know more about this and who have got access, or they have access to means and then I could land in trouble because of it. That's what worries me.

Ollie Collard: 56:19

Yeah, and I think there's, there's, I mean, there's services out there like law buy or rocket law, that you can download Terms and Conditions on their platform. So you pay a subscription, there's often a free trial with them as well. And you can download documents, obviously, you want to make them more specific to your own business, and probably shouldn't say this on there. But sometimes you can go and look at potential competitors, look at their terms and conditions, and then take them to a solicitor and then make them more pertinent to your own business. Whereas if you're going with a blank sheet of paper to a solicitor, obviously, that's going to cost you a lot of money. So there are ways around that. And I think reflecting like, yeah, so legal is obviously a big one. You know, sometimes branding, you know, startups can often spend 1000s and 1000s, on branding in the first instance, or 1000s

Unknown: 57:12

and 1000s of hours on Canva thinking they're designing a brand but actually missing the point 100 I know someone who's done that, yeah.

Ollie Collard: 57:21

Or, you know, looking at the latest CRM or email marketing platform? Yes, you what I say is you can go down so many rabbit holes. I think with the technology that's available today with like, no code tools and stuff like that, I think there's so many options out there, and you become a bit overwhelmed. And, and what I would say is just make a decision on one of them run with it. And what I would say to people is like when you look back in 12 months time, if you're not embarrassed by the first version of the website or your branding, you haven't done it right, like it will change over time, and you should definitely be embarrassed by it. So don't it doesn't have to be perfect. It can it can develop over time.

Unknown: 58:03

Yeah, yeah, I think it's just the prospect when you're shelling out that first few 1000. And you haven't actually got loads of the business already. And you're just thinking this is gonna have to last me I'm going to need this to be lasting me for a long time. But yeah, you're you're right. And actually, lots of our previous guests have said or not lots, but I'm thinking recently about some of our previous guests who have said exactly that, you know, they look back and they're a bit cringe. And then they're like, actually, no, that just shows how we started and where we came from and where we are now. That's our that is our business story. That's, that's all good. We got out there and did it. I know who said that to meet the founder of true start coffee and just give them a little mention Hellena Hills said the co founder of true star said exactly that about their first website and about their first brand as well. Okay, so that's, that's how we might answer this, we'll tell you how you can get involved in in answering this question in just a moment. One of the things that piers also said, and this is so interesting, because of some of the conversation, I'm having conversations I'm having with friends who've got their businesses, your first business may not be where you make the money, it might be where you do the learning. And then actually, you come up with a different business. And there are more shortcuts there. And that might be where actually you create something that fulfils its potential better. So not hanging on to that initial idea that you had for dear life. I mean, how on earth you know, when you've given it enough, I suppose. Do you just know is it just a feeling?

Ollie Collard: 59:35

I think it comes with time that you might know that it's not going to be the one for you. And like you say, you can package all of that experience and everything that you've learned along the way to shortcut the route to success for your next business. And it's not a failure. It's a journey, isn't it? So I think that nothing is final. The world of entrepreneurship is so good because you can reinvest your skills and Knowledge and take on another idea and the mistakes that you made the first time around. You're not going to make again, that's for sure. So I think it's a hard one, isn't it knowing when to quit? I think that, you know, sometimes people quit too early. And success is just around the corner. So it's a really, really hard one. But I would consult with people that are very close to you speak to your customers. And don't don't make that decision quickly. I think, yeah, a build in a couple of weeks to actually really come to a considered decision

Unknown: 1:00:34

on that actually something that I meant to pick up earlier, which might have surprised listeners to this podcast, and that is that Pierce doesn't, hasn't got a person that he names like his mentor. So you met you said there Ollie about, you know, consulting, asking people asking people whose opinion you value, you know, and he doesn't have that mentor. Yeah. Which may well be a surprise to people, I think, often there's an expectation that there may be someone in the background.

Ollie Collard: 1:01:00

Yeah, I mean, how soft appears because I think that if you speak to most very successful entrepreneurs they're mentioned is actually you've helped them out in those early stages and who they consult with and who they confide in. And often they placed a very heavy weighting on their success in respect of that relationship they've had with their mentor, and I found that quite surprising as well. But um, you know, I think, well, it's never too late. If peers is looking for a mentor, there might be some people listening to the broadcast.

Unknown: 1:01:31

Yeah. And also, you don't necessarily need to have one, you might not have one at all stages of your business anyway, but doing what he does, you know, going back to the investors looking at the data, looking at the numbers, checking in with his gut feeling as to what he actually wants to do. You know, it's all part of informing what happens next. Ollie, we should mention social actually. So I know we've just had a little mull over appears his question to you listening, but let's go to our community leads some answers and find out just some of the things that you've been saying in response to previous episodes, or previous episodes where our featured entrepreneur posed you a different question. So Sam, just give us a little re spin. Who was the entrepreneur? What was their business? And what did they want to know? Last episode, we spoke to the fantastic co founders of El Rey, Oh, Tom, and Jack. So they shared their story of how they are lifelong friends who discovered that there's a lot more to tequila than just 3am shooters sucking lemon and licking salt. After sampling that first tequila and tonic started them on this incredible entrepreneurial journey, quitting day jobs, and going on this Mexican adventure to develop their new brand of tequila. El Rio is an amazing story of just having an idea running with it, making mistakes and learning on the go, making us all ask ourselves, what are we waiting for? So it was a fascinating story, and so many things to learn from the journey. But of course, just like every guest, Tom and Jack had a question for our listeners. They wanted to know how you drink your tequila 47% of people who voted said that they don't drink tequila, which didn't come as a massive surprise as it's not a very commonly thought of drink for an average evening out. 24% said that they drink it as a shot the traditional way, we all think of having tequila. Actually 18% of us said that we mix it into a cocktail, and the last 1% Even a sip it needs. So there are some of us out there starting to see tequila as a bit more of a drink than just a shot, or something to avoid, which I'm sure Jack and Tom will be thrilled to hear. And hopefully that gives them a lot to think about and to see how we're starting to move towards thinking of tequila in different ways. But a lot of us still haven't experienced the true potential of tequila yet. So I'm sure there's a lot more for Tom and Jack to do to share that fantastic message and all the potential that tequila has out there. So hopefully a lot of us will be learning the beauty of tequila down the line and starting to maybe see opportunities to enjoy it as part of other drinks. So thank you very much. If you voted for one of those options on Tom and Jack's question, I'm sure that'd be really grateful to have heard from you. And if you didn't, you can always go and vote or let us know in comments on any of our social media channels after this as well. All right, then Ollie onwards to the next guest who have we got joining us on founded and grounded next time.

Ollie Collard: 1:04:57

So we've got a chap called Andy I am And he is co founder of a business called angel investing school. And he is trying to democratise access to Angel investing. And there's quite a few synergies with what piers was talking about in regards to access to capital, and access to opportunity. And Andy's got a really interesting business and backstory, and I can't wait for our listeners to hear more about his journey. Oh,

Unknown: 1:05:25

I think that whole area we've mentioned it briefly, haven't we about how there's a lot of sort of mystery surrounding it, there's a bit of a closed shop or a certain level. So I think anything we can do to kind of spread the word and yeah, shed light on this, I think is a good thing. So I'm looking forward to that conversation. Good to see you ollie. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for listening to founded and grounded with Ollie collard and Laura Rawlings. If you've enjoyed this free podcast, we'd love you to recommend it someone else. You can leave a review on Apple podcasts regardless of where you get your podcasts from. And join our online community and share your comments with us. We're on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. It's always good to hear from you