MAGIC: Mirror mirror on the wall, who is the fittest of them all?

Imagine seeing all your fitness progress in a Magic mirror, powered by AI. 

That's exactly what entrepreneur Varun has created with his tech-first personal training solution after his personal battles with unhealthy habits. 

Discover how he overcame investor rejection and built an MVP, plus the sacrifices he made along the way.

Key Takeaways

- How to fund and build an MVP

- Having a co-founder with complementary skills can be invaluable for supporting and sharing the entrepreneurial journey, making the challenges of startup life less lonely. 

- Criticism and feedback, even when harsh, can serve as a catalyst for improving your business approach and refining your pitch to investors.

Have questions about this episode? Ask our hosts, chat now via our website

Transcript

Unknown: 0:09

and some of the feedback, by the way was horrendous. I mean, some of the things people said about not just the product, but even me personally, like they'll go on my LinkedIn and be like, what's this guy achieved in the last 10 years? He's not done anything. You're listening to founded and grounded with Ollie collard and Laura Rawlings. The podcast brings you the honest realities of startup life. If you're a founder or aspiring entrepreneur, this is for you. We know running a business can be lonely and tough at times. And we want to help you get ahead with simple tips and sound advice. Every fortnight we hear inspiring stories from an early stage business owner who's only a couple of steps ahead of you, talking about what they've learned. And as your hosts, we share our own insights and experiences as founders. So you can apply this to your own business. Hello, welcome to the founded and grounded podcast with me, Laura Rawlings, and Ollie collard business startup coach Haley, how are you?

Ollie Collard: 1:18

I'm very well, Laura, how you doing?

Unknown: 1:20

You're right. Thank you. Yes, still facing the right way up, which is just been so full on recently, that I feel that's a very, that's a good sign. I'm managing to me my commitments just about. And sometimes when you're in business, and you're juggling lots of different things, just to be able to do all of that is I mean, it's so basic, but it feels like that's such a big achievement.

Ollie Collard: 1:42

It does. And I think you know, bank holidays don't really exist sometimes in being a business owner, do they? So you kind of lose a lot of time over Easter, and it puts you on the backfoot slightly, but I feel like I'm just coming get my head back above water. Now, which is good.

Unknown: 1:56

Yeah, I'm pleased to hear that. And yes, all of my, like self employed business days are on bank holidays, of which we have an abundance it feels in April and May. And you know, if you're a parent of a school aged child, then you've also got that to factor in as well. But you know, we keep juggling. Who have we got today, Ali, we've got a really lovely founder, haven't we?

Ollie Collard: 2:18

We got a really interesting entrepreneur, Laura, his name is Varun, and he is co founder of a business called Magic AI, which is transforming the world of personal training.

Unknown: 2:30

And when you told me about this, I really was like, what? Sorry, you've got a what a mirror in your room? Yes, it's gonna be an interesting one. Because you have one of these, and you've been, you know, trying out

Ollie Collard: 2:43

been testing out with some good results a bit too early to say. But um, yeah, I think what I love about it is it just gives you an opportunity to go and do a personal training session in your front room for 20 minutes. Whereas if you have to get to the gym, you know, get all your kit ready. It just puts up lots of barriers. We're literally just go into your front room, do a session, and then you're done within half an hour, which is incredible.

Unknown: 3:08

And importantly, and as you're going to hear right now, but you also get help along the way doing that in terms of technique and gathering data. So without further ado, let's jump into your conversation with Baron. And yeah, he talks more about what magic actually is and why he decided to create it in the first place.

Ollie Collard: 3:29

Good afternoon, Varun, thank you so much for coming on the founded and grounded show. How you doing this afternoon?

Unknown: 3:34

Yeah, well, good. Yeah, it gets gets very early.

Ollie Collard: 3:37

Could you tell our listeners a bit more about your AI startup called Magic? And fundamentally what problem you're solving? Yeah. So

Unknown: 3:46

it all started off when I was in my early 20s and had picked up some very, very bad habits from university eating too many kebabs drinking too much whiskey. He didn't have a clue how to or what even exercise was I've never really stepped into a gym. And over my 20s Like, I sort of progressively got worse and ended up getting told by professional that I needed to sort of lose weight soon, otherwise, I was gonna face future health problems. And I also had, you know, hereditary issues in my family so I can sort of see the direction where, where things are going. So I woke up one morning was like, Okay, let's it's time to make a big change in in my lifestyle and what I'm doing. I was also at the same time, an early employee, I was employee number one that's hovel, well known startup here in London. And I guess due to the stresses of that, you know, building an early stage tech company. You know, it took its toll on me. So, yeah, I woke up one morning and was like, I've got a I gotta make a big change. So I enrolled in a personal training programme here in London, went to an awesome gym in central London. And sort of, in the daytime, I was doing the tech tech business and in the evenings and early mornings, I was working with a personal trainer. And over the course of I think about 16 weeks, I ended up losing, I think it was about 2025 kilos. It was like 20% of my body feels like a new man, I had to get a new wardrobe. And I, yeah, completely, and I did like a photo shoot. And it was just the most surreal, crazy experience, because I was never that sort of person that had ever been into a gym, I didn't understand how to pick up weights, I didn't understand what I was doing. But when I first went through that process, which was you know, extremely transformational, there was a number of inefficiencies I noticed. One is that personal training is an extremely old fashioned process, you have a sort of human who you have to meet at a certain time, certain days and certain place, who stands over clipboard and pen, just manually counting your reps giving you verbal feedback into your form and correcting you. There's no real data augmentation to the experience. So we didn't really know how well we were doing or or week on week. And because I was working in a tech company at the time, my instincts was like, well, there has to be a more tech first approach to replacing this and also doing it at scale, on demand at home, certainly, hopefully doesn't cost 4050 pounds an hour, which it does, in my opinion, London, it sometimes goes up to 100 pounds an hour, depending on where you go. So we're trying to figure out, there must be a way how to automate this entire process using a combination of AI and technology. And that was really the seed of the the idea behind magic and what started making us think Well, is there like a software hardware solution that can create this, this recreate the same experience of hyper personalised one to one personal training at home. And so magic was born from that, that sort of frustration and that problem that that I personally experienced and went through. And now we're trying to create that same experience for people at home

Ollie Collard: 7:13

at scale. Amazing. And I know you recently shipped the product in January 2020. Free, what's been the reaction like so far from some of your customers? Yeah, so

Unknown: 7:23

it was it was a very nerve wracking experience, because we expensive, well over a year, year and a half, probably doing essentially r&d Because what we're doing is incredibly complex. I didn't actually mention the how the product works, but essentially, it's like a wall mirror that sits up in your home. When it's off, it just looks like a beautiful piece of furniture. You turn it on, and suddenly you got a hologram of a personal trainer that appears in the mirror. And there's an AI camera embedded which tracks your form and gives you live feedback cancer reps monitors your progress week on week. And it pairs with a innovative sets of adjustable dumbbells, which which tuck away and basically replicate an entire gym. So the big challenge was yes, shipping this this really complex, heavy, heavy duty, essentially piece of furniture to people's homes all over the country. So yeah, we spent like 12 months to 18 months doing research and development and building up the supply chain warehousing logistics. And yeah, it came to Boxing Day we turned on our marketing, we started shipping. And there is to be honest response has been really great. I mean, we were very nervous. We weren't sure we had certain goals in our mind to achieve across 2023. And I think in January, we we were roughly hit around 50% of what our target was for, for essentially the whole year. So it went it went well. And at the moment, it sort of feels like we're imagining like a plane, like a rickety rackety plane just getting off the ground. And it's sort of not quite, it's moving upwards, but it's not quite stable. And it's sort of jittering left and right. That sort of feels like where our company is at the moment where we're moving. We know we're sort of moving in the right direction. But But things are not quite stable yet. We've had a few bugs, you've had issues with the with the supply chain and the software and but but yeah, ultimately, it's been, I think we've learned more in the last six weeks and then probably last six months about, you know, our customers about the challenges of this business. And ultimately, it's only going to help us improve and get better in the coming coming months.

Ollie Collard: 9:49

And Rewinding back a bit further going back to the when you're the kind of the seed of the idea and thinking about going from idea to execution. I know You bootstrapped the business by selling a load of treadmills in order to fund the MVP. So I'd love to know a bit more about your kind of fundraising strategy, and the details of your round that you closed in April 2022. Yeah, so,

Unknown: 10:16

yeah, you're right, you pick that up? Well, so during sort of the latter end of COVID, when, when I first started sort of working on this idea, and we realised we're gonna need a bunch of money to really just get that first version working and demonstratable is particularly for investors because something like this people don't really buy into unless you will at least have a working prototype of some substance. So it's obviously a little bit more expensive to do then say I don't know if are selling you know, mobile phone cases or something, or pens or mugs or whatever. It so it needed some capital upfront to really build that, that MVP. So I managed to get hold of a load of treadmills, I think it was about 200 200 of these really quite slick actually, these folding, adjustable treadmills, which, which basically just fold all the way down, and you can use it as a walking pad underneath your desk. And, you know, folds up and it looks kind of kind of nice kind of Chrome, not one of these kind of frosty, frosty, old kind of big, you know, big clunky pieces you get often. But yeah, no, it wasn't anything like too crazy or intuitive. It wasn't like, I mean, I'm sure you can find something similar if you googled it on Amazon, or whatever. But we found them. And obviously, everything was going bananas for workout equipment at the time. So yeah, we sold all of them in in a matter of a few months and, and raised, I think it was about 50k pounds from it. Which we then fed back into the development of, of what magic is now. And what was interesting from that experience is even though it's not the product that we sell, and it's not a product that we will sell, what we did learn was we basically built our entire supply chain, in the process of how because it was also something that's quite big and heavy and in the fitness space and and then we also understood how to build a Shopify site how to work with a warehouse and three PL and fulfil something that's heavy. We learned about online chat and how you need to answer questions for customers when it's a higher value consideration purchase, because treadmills were about 400 quid. So we, it was almost like a trial run for magic, but at the same time we raised the money and even now, to be honest, we've been thinking a lot about kinda like how I think Tesla and Elon Musk. I know, from time to time, they do these ridiculous like Limited Edition drops of I think at one point he was selling like a flame thrower, Miller point, I think it was like a Tesla tequila. And I think startups can sort of be a little bit innovative and don't always have to stick to the straight and narrow of their idea if they need to raise cash, you know, you are a business, you are an entrepreneur, you can just sell other things. And ultimately, it just helps your top line revenue. Right. keeps the lights on. So that's where things that's how we bootstrapped. And then in, in answer to your second point about the fundraise. So yeah, we ended up building out this, this pretty slick MVP, there was a lot of problems with it, the, you know, the tracking was a bit nuts, because it required users to stand like 12 feet away from the mirror, the mirror was way too big. It was like six feet tall. It is totally not fit for consumer purpose. But it was enough for us to get people excited and interested when they first saw it. And also because it was COVID we had to do most of our invested demos over zoom just like this cool, basically. And it was because we had something that was working, I could easily like give them a demo over the call, which which was a huge, huge boost. And in the end we closed so I have not ever we've not announced it yet. But we will be I think in the next month or at least when maybe when this podcast comes out. It would already the news already be out. But um, yeah, we raised a really, really healthy amount from it was to venture capital funds from London that around. And then we had about 20 Odd angels who came from some incredible consumer tech and wellness companies that you've probably heard of. So we got a really good base then in the initial check actually came from Virgin StartUp as well who supported us who I know you're you're an advisor for so. Yeah, there's a number of really helpful people that came into the fray. And now we're just, I guess, post revenue and just just working towards perhaps that next round of funding that that might come next year.

Ollie Collard: 14:55

I love that and there's a lot of power in that isn't a veteran in terms of seeing is believing life People see it in action, then they're going to want it. Nice. So I think it's really important that you've got that MVP prototype in place, even if it wasn't the, you know, the fully singing and dancing version as well. I wanted to kind of tap into some of your other experiences in the world of startups. And you mentioned it before about being the first employee VC backed tech startup. I also know you're a co founder along with your wife of a social enterprise called unhoused.org. So can you tell us a bit more about these experiences? And also, how this has influenced magic?

Unknown: 15:34

Yeah, great question. So my initial sort of experience in the startup world was back in, I think it was 2014, when I ended up crossing paths with the cofounders of Hubble, who were like an entrepreneur, first company, doing like an online marketplace for finding office space. And at the time, it was just two of them. And I said, Look, I want to get there, I met them. And I said, Look, I want to get into startups. I have absolutely no experience, because in London in 2014, no one did. And but you know, I'm super enthusiastic and ready to go, you know, just graduated last year. So they are domestically let me come in as I was essentially an unpaid intern, which I think was much more permissible back in 2014. I think I'm pretty sure there's some people now but back then I was more than willing to work for free. So I ended up working I think, I think there's about six months. In the end, I was a sort of a, an unpaid intern, and, but I was young and didn't really have any dependables, I just come from uni, I was just willing to learn. So I worked with them. And then we ended up getting funded by by by a bunch of venture capital funds. And then he got a job and became a full time member of the team was employee number one. And that entire experience for me was just amazing. Because I learned so much about, you know, how do you first get that MVP? How do you approach investors? How do you talk to customers and learn and feedback that build a feedback loop? Which ultimately iterates on the product and makes it better? I learned about PR, how do you reach out to journalists talk to press, I learned about paid social and performance, marketing and what to do and what not to do. And I also learned, I guess, how what, you know, how do you, you know, what do you do when company when the company isn't doing well? And how do you sort of keep the lights on and motivate the team. And to be honest, without doing any of those things, I really don't think I would have been nowhere near prepared to do what we're doing here at Magic. Because what we're doing here magic is very, very complex. It's AI, it's deep tech. So I think just working in it, this is a great piece of advice I'd give to literally anyone who wants to go into startups or start their own is gone worked for one first, because the learning curve when you start your own will be so much less steep when you've already worked on one previously. And that was like, for me the biggest, biggest set of learning that I that I got from from being humble. At the same time, sort of more recently 2019 Or was it 2018 I think my wife and I had the time we were just in get we were engaged. We used to obviously commute into into London every day for work. And we'll see see a lot of homeless people out there on the streets. And it's a continuing problem in London. And one of the things we always felt is like when you give them money, just sort of out of your pocket on the street, you don't really know where the money's going. And you don't know what they're spending it on. And also you don't really Yeah, again, you don't really see where it ends up. And then we also found that on the other end of the scale with with big charities and of course, there's lots of great charities that do good work. But when you give like, you know, five or 10 pounds to a big homeless charity, you don't really know where the money is going. And often the feeling, I think nowadays is that you sort of get swallowed up into this big, big, big corporation and you don't really see where the, you know, how does it actually affect people who are out there on the street and how much of that five or 10 pound goes to them. So you think, you know, my personal experience in tech and my wife was working in an accountancy or working in finance at the time, but she was doing lots of work for them in diversity and inclusion. We sort of put our heads together and thought well, why don't we set up just a very simple online shop. No different from a sauce to Amazon, where people can go on there they can buy products for themselves. So you know warm jumping in fact, this is one of the jumpers we sell warm gloves with T shirts, hats, scarves, and for every one that they buy, we would then donate one to Homeless. So it was like a buy one give one model. So it's a self sustaining company, in the sense that we don't try to raise money from people like a charity, we're not like, depending on goodwill from people, we're actually giving something to people of value that they actually need. And then we're donating to good causes at the same time where we actually dropped drop off product, one of the same to a shelter. And then finally would actually send a video or a photo back to the person that made the original order. So they can actually see that the product is gone to the people that it intended to and we're completely a nonprofit organisation and everything does both go through. So on houses really fun. I mean, I mean, you know, we've got loads of great press because it was a pretty innovative model. There was really charities leaving standard came in and did an awesome article and arson Forbes. And I think CBS were on like CBS knees. And it's just been an awesome like, learning experience for us because on one hand, we're sort of running this Tech Shop, which is a bit like Amazon at the same time we're doing like good for people. It helps me actually with magic because I suddenly because my previous company huddle was like an online marketplace. It wasn't really like an online like E commerce DTC brand where we were where we had a physical product, but we were selling to people so actually, and housed at all was a great learning experience for me to launch magic where we set up a Shopify site where we sell Of course, it's a completely different products. But a lot of the principles are the same around, you know, building a high converting ecommerce website and managing the checkout flow and logistics and fulfilment and delivery to customers. All those things are all the same. But yeah, I honestly recommend checking us out on on house.org. A word about our sponsors. As a founder cybersecurity isn't top of your priorities. Yet Alliance has identified cyber threats as one of the top three risks facing business globally. This is where Nova blue comes in. Its founder Steve Mason was technical director with GCHQ he was in charge of keeping the nation safe from cyber threats. He set up Nova blue to help keep businesses safe. Nova blue are offering founded and grounded listeners a free cybersecurity health check, simply go to Nova hyphen blue.co.uk forward slash podcast offer. Can I just say straight up Ali that I really loved hearing Varun talking about his experiences and what led him to the kind of the two things the social enterprise and the business that he's doing today, I just really enjoy just the way he talks about it. And just such, I felt such like an open minded open hearted pneus. In that conversation, which I just wanted to wanted to highlight in one of the one of the things straightaway, that I think we should talk about is he said about getting a load of treadmills and selling them to raise capital. So this idea that, okay, you've got your business, and you know what you want to do your service or your product. But in order to have the funds to be able to do that sometimes you've got to do other stuff. And this isn't something I think we've talked about a lot with other founders on the podcast, I think we should today. Because I think sometimes people feel bad if they're not able to do it all exclusively related to whatever it is they want to be doing.

Ollie Collard: 23:33

I just love this approach that veterans take, you know, because you don't see it too often. Often you see, you know, founders coming up with these amazing ideas that are potentially going to change the world. But they try and raise capital on the back of an idea where investors typically don't like because, you know, ideas are cheap, everyone can have them. And ultimately, a lot of founders feel that capital is stopping them getting started. Whereas actually, it's not a barrier in most scenarios. And what Varun has done here is brilliant. It reminds me a bit of like, you know, Only Fools and Horses or something. And he's actually taking this concept. And he's actually just doing a first iteration of it, selling these treadmills raising some capital to actually build out the MVP of what he does want to do. And I think if founders could take a leaf out of Barron's book in terms of what he's done here, and the way that he's done, it is actually incredible. I think it's really great to see, and it's given that seed capital to get going. And then later on go and raise investment. And if you

Unknown: 24:35

can flip 50k I mean, are you so good, good for you, for sure. Yeah. And I often find that I end up doing other things, but they do broadly fit under the umbrella and in the same way, as he said, Well look, it's kind of part of the sphere that we're in, you know, fitness and health. So it did fit in, and that's what I feel like but sometimes it does feel a bit like Gosh, I'm having to do this slight distraction to do this. But actually, you know, let yourself off the hook for sure. Another observation. And I don't want to sound really old here when I say this, but I think probably will, just how people spot opportunities for business. So when I was hearing him talking about the personal fitness trainer and how it felt, I don't know if he said a bit old fashioned, I think he might, I think he did. Denise is a bit old fashioned, they're standing there with a clipboard, and, you know, counting your reps and all of this. And I was like, Yes. And I love that it's bespoke. And you know, this is tailored for me, and I've got this person's time. And he's like, then thinking, but hang on, you know, how do you scale this? How do you make it reach and help more and more people? You know, what technology is out there that can help us to do this as well. And then obviously, going into AI? And I'm thinking, Oh, well, yeah, this is the generation that's gonna take us there, I feel if you're not exactly, I don't feel old, but it's just a different generational thing and how we all come up, we could come at the same scenario, and spot something different, and spot a different opportunity. And that's cool, you know, have that confidence and go with that he's creating something that I haven't seen anyone else do. So I thought that was, it's always worth thinking about where people get their business ideas from, and you know, how they make it their own.

Ollie Collard: 26:22

Yeah. And I love Aaron's approach, you know, it's very bold in terms of what he's trying to do. Like, I haven't seen anything like this. And I thought, wow, you know, he's taken this vision and made it a reality, which is incredible. And I think like you say, in terms of like utilising tech, there's a lot of industries that are lagging behind a bit. And he's seen, obviously, how this industry could be made better by using tack on the mirror has an AI camera. So literally, when you're doing your workout, it will track your body movements to make sure you're doing it correctly. And it won't count a rep until you've done it correctly. And I think that's incredible. Because often, I don't know, this might be a problem that other people have, as well as sometimes you don't feel like you're doing it correctly. But actually, if it's tracking you and making sure that you are doing it correctly, you know that your technique is improving. And then you can increase the weight based on when you've actually mastered the technique, which is obviously critical to actually gaining muscle and definition, progress in terms of personal development,

Unknown: 27:23

a slight diversion, but does it talk to you? Do you how does it so it speaks back to you, it says, you know, stick your bum out more? Or don't be so lazy with those squats?

Ollie Collard: 27:33

So the instructions if you're not doing it correctly, will display on the mirror? Like, put your feet wider apart, for example. So yeah, it gives you like, live form based on how you're doing the repetition.

Unknown: 27:47

Oh, my gosh. That's just amazing. It just feels like a whole other world. To me. It's very cool. Okay, right. Hopefully, were making you think I might go and look this up, what is this thing that they're talking about? Anyway, moving along. As is always the case, because you cannot set up a business without making some mistakes along the way, whether or not you choose to call them that, but you will do some things that you'll do differently next time for sure. So in terms of Varun then are interested to find out what are some of his favourite babies so far, when it comes to magic? The first thing I did wrong, is I first started talking to investors and trying to sell them on this vision. And I used to just talk to them like this, like I'm talking to you now. And try and talk to them through all the features and all the things we were going to build all these weird, weird and wonderful tech AI functionality it was going to have, and a lot of investors would seem interested and then they just sort of send an email afterwards saying, Yeah, we're not sure. We're not sure if you'll get the traction, we're not sure on the product. We think you're gonna get beaten by the big peloton of the world, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it I couldn't quite crack what the and some of the feedback, by the way was horrendous. I mean, some of the things people have said about not just the product, but even me personally, like they'll go on my LinkedIn and be like, what's this guy achieved in the last 10 years, he's not done anything. He just worked at another random carpet startup. And he's not started, not done anything, which makes me think, I think my favourite criticism was, this guy's done nothing, which makes me think that he's the perfect person to run this company. It was it was a really damning feedback. And I was trying to wrack my brains because I was like, we've clearly got this great. MVP working, which is more than what you could say for a very basic, you know, as I said, if I was doing mobile phone cases, it's obviously not quite as hard as it was to get the MVP of ours running. And it's like, we've got all this great traction that we bootstrapped. Why are we not making headway here? And that was when I realised that I wasn't actually forcing people to demo the product. So I, what I realised was I wasn't really showing them the product in the phone call for Gavin got it here behind me today. But normally I'd have it behind me when I was doing like an investor pitch. And I'd start walking them through this is what happens if this hadn't set up. So what I did was I didn't set up like a separate camera on like a, like a tripod. And then I had two cameras. So one I was explaining the other one, I was showing them what was on the mirror. And suddenly the vision just came alive. And I remember there was a tipping point, when I had about five or six investor calls scheduled for a week, one week. And every single one of those after having a perfect about three months of knows, every single one said yes. And it was I remember it was there just a shift when it was it was when we changed the format of the pitch. And we sort of started forcing people to actually see what was going on, and not just talking about about showing them. And I think that's just so so important to just show people what you're capable of rather than just telling them because it's very difficult to review when, when you've done that and in to answer your question. It's interesting, because when I got these rejections initially, I took them So personally, I was so upset. I remember I showed them to my mum, and and they were, you know, especially the one about what is this guy done in the last 10 years, some of them work for some random company called Hubble and, you know, it's like, and it was just so I took it so personally, but looking in hindsight, if I hadn't have gotten those, those rejections, and I wouldn't have been able to have got to that point where we where we didn't do those successful demos. So yeah, it's just been a real, real learning curve. And I think you just have to take those losses, and turn them into learnings and see what you can achieve.

Ollie Collard: 32:01

Love that version? And who do you call when things aren't going to plan?

Unknown: 32:05

The good question, actually, the first thing I would say is my co founders, Sunil. And so a lot of I know, there's often a lot of debate in the startup world about, you know, do you really need a co founder? Is it okay to be a solo founder? What's the optimal number of co founders if you do have one is three, okay, is four. Okay? And I'll be honest, it before I started this, I always thought that you don't really need a co founder, because, you know, if you're getting enough headway, you're just hiring the right talent to fill the gaps. But what I've realised is over lasted six months to a year, having a co founder that has not the same skills, but a complementary set of skills. So Sunil manages the product per tech, he works on the UI and the UX. And I work on sort of the sort of non technical side of the business. So everything to do with, you know, the marketing and the finance and the PR. And without that complementary set of skills, I honestly wouldn't know what I would would have done because the insights and just having someone to lean on to talk to you on your good days and celebrate the wins, wins, but also talk to and confide in on your bad days. It's just so invaluable. And it's just so totally worth having a co founder, just for those reasons alone. Because the startup journey, the entrepreneurs journey is so lonely. Otherwise, there's days where you just don't know. Like, you know, you're sort of staring out of the window at the Abyss just wondering what the hell is going to happen next? And how am I going to deal with these things coming up. And just having someone by your side is just so so important. And we have a weekly check in every week on Tuesday for half an hour. And what often ends up taking up about an hour these days. But it's almost like a therapy session, we already kind of know what's happening in each other's you know, what we're both working on, we're kind of already know these things. But it's just like a therapy session where we talk about all the stuff that's going wrong and writes and What mistakes have we made that we shouldn't have done? And yeah, it's just ultimately, just just so important. So cofounder 100% other people who I would say, our family, people at home people who are not in the business, because I find that we're leaning on, obviously have a partner, but also just just going to my family. And you know, I'll pop in and see, see my parents sort of once a week, and I'll sort of sit down and just tell them everything that's going right and wrong. And so nice to kind of bounce ideas off of people who just did not come in the business at all. They just don't have a clue really what's going on. Because often helps to sort of put things into perspective. So yeah, I would highly recommend actually confiding in people who are actually not in the business and getting their perspective because suddenly they're like, but look at all these things you've done unless you've done that Have you sort of step back? And like, well, actually, I guess things haven't gone as badly as I thought.

Ollie Collard: 35:05

Great advice so far. And I'm interested to know, what is one sacrifice that you've made? either consciously or unconsciously? I can probably give a couple

Unknown: 35:15

fsri Yeah, of course. So I have I have had to sacrifice Syria, spending time with with friends. Which is, which is a tough one, really, because I know there's lots of benefits and gardeners these days, always talking about how it's so good for your mental health as well to, you know, to take time out to spend with friends, but there's just been so many occasions, social occasions where I've just been not able to go because work comes up. You know, I'm no longer that guy, that's sort of the first message that much anymore, because I'm just so busy focusing on work, it's at the back of my mind that it could end up being something that I regret. And it's something I'm working on to try and balance. But I guess, in that one, one year period, where you were, you're in that, as I said that, that when you're getting that jittery plane off the ground, and it's trying to get stable, I think there will be moments where you kind of have to prioritise that. And if they, if they're your friends, you'll always be there in six months, right. So it's something I've tried to come to terms with is, is that I'm just not able to sort of be there and be present in other people's lives in the same way how I used to be. And it's something I regret, but I know that it's something which almost like a rite of passage for a lot of startup CEOs or founders, and I'm sure, if you spoke to all the big, famous CEOs of their industries, the Bill Gates, or Jeff Bezos of the world, they will probably say that they went through a similar similar process as well. So yeah, suddenly, I'm coming to terms with Shall we start by talking about criticism and getting criticism? So talking about, you know, trying to sell the idea and pitch it and constantly telling people about it? But actually, let's just go straight to there, how he deals with criticism and how you deal with it? And yeah, what you do when you get it, because you are going to, you're going to get it people can give feedback and reviews all the time. Now, can't they? Importantly, you learn from it, and you see if there's any truth in it, I suppose. And you see who's making that criticism and whether it's worthy of you doing something about it. What else would you say about handling criticism?

Ollie Collard: 37:45

I think all I'd call it feedback or feedback is encouraging, because it allows you to take it on board, as you say, justify whether it's valid or not, and then actually implement any potential changes. And I think it's hard sometimes when you're doing something that you absolutely love. And you've got these people who you probably don't even know, who are actually giving you this feedback. And sometimes it can be hard to take. And I think if you just take a step back, and don't let yourself get caught up in the moment of it, and maybe come back to it the next day, with a head and an outsider's perspective. And just don't take it personally, I think that's the key thing. Like, obviously, if someone's taking time to give feedback, ultimately, they kind of care in a certain sense. So I think actually giving them a time of day to acknowledge it. Obviously, if you aren't making any changes based on what they've given to you actually go back and say, well, thank you for making me think about this point that you've raised, I actually do think it's really valid, here's what we're going to do about it. So actually, it could turn a potential prospect who was potentially interested in buying your product or service into a champion, because it makes like, you feel very valued. And then you're building really good relationships with your customers. So I think it's sometimes hard to do. But I think all businesses should have a mechanism for gaining feedback from their customers, not just on social media, but make it easy for people to get in contact with suggestions.

Unknown: 39:19

I think it's so good, and a sign of a resilient person that he didn't get the sort of feedback. So it was quite personal. Certainly what he said about on LinkedIn, you know, who is this person got to thinking they're gonna be able to do this, so never take on the big boys. Everyone else is gonna get there first and all of that, I mean, wow, it would have been, it would have been understandable if at that point, he was just like, okay, that gives you a confidence and massive knock when it's something like that. So,

Ollie Collard: 39:48

so So I think some of it was pretty brutal, to be honest, but I think not not deserved, as we said before, like, you know, Varun is a very personal genuine person. And I think that yeah, When people are coming out of the blue and saying things like that, it's, you got to try and understand why are they saying this, maybe it's some form of jealousy or they don't want to see people succeed. But I think, in entrepreneurship, there is genuinely a good atmosphere amongst founders is that everyone knows how hard it is to run a business. So yes, I would say nine times out of 10, most people are trying to build people up and encourage them to do well, rather than trying to knock them down, which I don't think is a good use of anyone's time. And people don't know how it makes you feel. And I think it's definitely not fair.

Unknown: 40:38

Yeah, but it will be okay. If it did make you feel a bit bruised. And then it's what you do next, isn't it turning those losses into learnings? I think it's what Varun said, kind of tied in with that as well. The acknowledgement that it is a lonely, it can be a lonely business, when you're doing this yourself, if you're the solo person behind it, and actually, how he has learned to reach out, find, you know, have a co founder, talk to a family and the perspective that they can give as they're completely removed from it. I think I just highlight this because of the reassurance that I think is important to give what you if you're experiencing this what you feel is real. But consider these ways of dealing with that.

Ollie Collard: 41:26

Yeah, I think it's so important, I think sometimes it can feel like the most pivotal thing in your world. And if you're bottling it up and not talking to people about it, then it's going to hang over you. And ultimately, you're probably going to make poor decisions, because you're going to do it on the wrong basis, rather than speaking about it, you know, the old adage of a problem shared is a problem half, I think it's, it's so true, you've got to have these people that you're gonna be able to talk to wherever they are actually giving you direct business advice, or they're just a person who's listening and they care about you on a personal level, I think it's, it's vitally important.

Unknown: 42:04

Yeah. And in a similar line, around sacrifices, you know, part of the challenge of doing this of just going, I know, I'm kind of out of the frame here for a year. And it's sort of good to have that kind of timescale. I remember not unlike when I had when I had my daughter, and I just thought, well, I'm going to be out of the picture for at least a year here. So having a timeframe kind of helped me in sort of chunking it in that in that way, seeing it like that project. And really just hoping and trusting that you've got good friends who are good friends, and it's still gonna be there. But there are without doubt sacrifices. And the ones you pick, I guess, purse, their personal, aren't they, what you do and don't do is is up to you, what you choose to prioritise.

Ollie Collard: 42:49

They are and it's all really comes down to prioritising as you say, Laura, you can't achieve everything. So it's literally writing down what you care about what you want to achieve, and then actually making some really difficult decisions. And being honest about that. Because people often think that they can do more than they can do in a short timeframe. In the long run, you can achieve more, but in the short run, you definitely can't. So it's about having those hard conversations with yourself and deciding which things you are going to achieve. Because yeah, there is going to be a trade off.

Unknown: 43:22

Yeah, I appreciate his honesty in this. And actually just a little throw forwards to our next guest when we hear from Johnny Palmer, who's going to be with us on a future podcast in a couple of weeks. You know, he talks about this in a really interesting and quite refreshing way actually with some good advice. So do make sure you listen to the next episode. Okay, skipping along that so in terms of success, we all like imagining what things might be like in the next five years or so in the sort of medium shortage medium term. But in terms of Aaron What does he think success is gonna look like What's he planning for? I mean, we have various goals that we want to hit for for magic that so we have various revenue goals where it's number of orders, number of customers, I think, I think the next five years for us will look like beyond the UK, probably into Europe, maybe into Asia as a as a expanding customer base. We're potentially going to launch into different like a few other products which complement complement the mirror which which is quite exciting, obviously very early stage at the moment and all kind of under wraps but I think expanding our product line and then also expanding our customer base is really the main priority. One area of the business and really excited about is so we've just done boarded some initial athletes who are sort of masters of their craft. So we have like Deseret Henry's has a Record breaking Team GB Olympian sprinter, we have Ashley Phillip, who's also Team GB Olympian. We've got sia Kwanzaa. He's a rugby player for England rugby. serratus to kick who is England, cricketing legend, Kathy Jones are Strictly Come Dancing. So what we want to do with our content is start expanding into more sort of master classes from some of the world's best athletes sports stars, in their craft, and using our AI we can overlay their craft with with, with essential artificial intelligent tracking. So it feels like you're getting personally trained by the world's best in your living room one on one. And there isn't really a blueprint for what we're doing. There isn't really like a company or startup out there that's doing exactly that. There's we've seen different companies all over the world to do different pieces of it. But to bring all these things together is incredibly complex, but also very exciting if we can really execute to nail it over the next sort of few years. So yeah, stay tuned. We're already in conversations with some superstar athletes, one of which we're about to close on. So yeah, just just stay tuned. I'm just really excited to show the world.

Ollie Collard: 46:16

Amazing, Vernon bit more of a now a general question. But what do you see that the trends are going to be in AI? In the next five years as well? Obviously, there's a lot more people using things like, chat GPT, how do you see AI influencing our lives? And what are the trends? Yeah, great

Unknown: 46:33

question. I mean, it's funny, because we started working on, you know, magic being AI, we see ourselves as an AI company, rather than the fitness company. And it's funny, because we were working on this, you know, before chat, GBT became all the rage last month. And yeah, so you said, Microsoft, are integrating it into into Bing and Google are coming out with bar, which is their, I think their competitor. So for generative AI, it's a very interesting space. I think, I mean, I'm not an expert in AI, and I don't think anyone really knows what the future holds. So, so people who these talking heads to come on the news and start saying, Oh, it's going to do this and gonna do that no one really knows. What I think is gonna happen though, is, there's definitely going to be some shift in skills where people who previously did a certain job, may no longer do that exact same job. Now, I don't know if they're going to really be replaced with AI or generative AI at this stage. But what I think will happen is, it's going to become a very strong compliment to people's jobs and people's work. For example, previously, you may have hired I don't know a producer to help you with your questions for this podcast, what might happen is that producer may work with Chet GPT, or a different software to help with those formulate those questions. And but her job or his job will still be to, to tweak and modify and steer those questions and make sure that they are appropriate for me as a guest. But there's clearly going to be some complement between AI which didn't previously exist. So I'm not sure if jobs are going to be replaced. But I think skill sets are going to change in a certain way, and is very similar to what we're doing with with personal training, right. Like I like I said, we're sort of replacing a personal trainer using AI. And I do believe that we will do that. But I also think there's there's definitely angles where people are still going to use our product, but then probably still go to perhaps the gym or a certain cardio class, or they might go rowing or swimming or whatever outside and running. So our software, our AI will ultimately be a complement to, to what other physical exercises they're doing in their lifestyle. So we may not completely replace the gym membership or the personal training, membership fee. But we are coming up with a compliment using AI. And I think ultimately, that's where we're going to be seeing things in the future. That's my hunch.

Ollie Collard: 49:18

Great answer there. I'm really like that I'm nice and pragmatic as well. So one of the key parts of the founding ungrounded show is asking founders to distil down just one piece of advice that you'd pass on to somebody thinking of starting a business or an early stage founder. So we're not going to put you on the spot. What would that one piece of advice be?

Unknown: 49:40

So aside from I mean, my initial piece of advice was going work for a company first. So the learning curve is less steep. But I think it's probably more of a wider philosophical point, which is, and this is something I've thought about almost every month, every every week, I sort of think about this quote, which I Um, it was sent to me about four or five years ago I heard it, which is, you can fail at doing something that you don't like to do very much. So you can fail at doing something that you don't like to do very much. So you might as well take a chance and doing what you love. And every time I have a tricky day, there's a big challenge that comes up, the first thing I think about is, well, I could have just stayed in my previous startup and nice and comfortable, you know, no headache clock off at five, six o'clock. You know, get a great weekend in and don't have to look at Slack till till Monday, you don't have to look at Gmail. But you know, what, it's not really what I wanted to spend my life doing, I could have failed at doing that as well. So it's not only is it something that I didn't really want to spend the rest of my life doing, I could have also failed at doing it as well. So if that is the case, you might as well take a chance on doing something that you actually love. Because that way, you're stacking the odds in your favour of, of not only success, but also of enjoying what you're doing too. And that's something I think about every week, which is, you know, the grass is always greener on the other side. But, you know, this is this is essentially what I love, I'm making an impact on people's lives at the same time, hopefully building a very, very valuable business and creating jobs for for an awesome team. So that's what I would say is, is is taking a chance and doing what you love whenever you're looking for that that one business idea or that one startup that you want to build for the future.

Ollie Collard: 51:39

And where can people find out a bit more about you about magic magic online.

Unknown: 51:45

So you can check us out at Magic dot fit. So quite an easy domain WWE dot magic dot fits. Our Instagram handle is exactly the same. It's actually at magic. And then the letters do T dot fit, magic dot fit. And my name is Varun banner. You can find me on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, everywhere else. So yeah,

Ollie Collard: 52:11

cuz I know you have a question for our listeners, Ron.

Unknown: 52:15

Yeah, I know that a lot of startup founders and CEOs listen to this podcast, I was very esteemed to be one of the one of the list after seeing the previous guests who who've come on it. So my question really is, well, you know, what is that one thing that you as a experienced startup founder would recommend? Or what was that one thing that you did in your daily routine? That changed when you became a startup founder that became the biggest had the biggest impact and the biggest ROI on your daily routine that had the biggest impact on your on your life? Essentially? Like, what was that one or two thing that you did that that made that that that that huge impact outsized impact on your day and routine? That's the thing. I'm I'm in seats all at the moment. And any advice would be great,

Ollie Collard: 53:13

amazing. And well, we'll get some answers to you on that one as well. And lastly, I know you kindly offered our listeners a discount on magic, and people want to try it out for themselves. So how do people kindly take you up on that offer version?

Unknown: 53:29

Yeah, so what's great is Ali is actually one of our customers, which is fantastic. And, you know, we're super, super, super happy to have Ollie as part of the magic family. And we've prepared a very special discount code which will be in the capture in the in the in the in the podcast description here. And that's exclusively for founded and grounded listeners to take advantage of. So make sure you you capitalise on that. And it's our pleasure and our gift to you guys, for for for having us.

Ollie Collard: 54:04

Amazing. And yeah, just speaking first time, I absolutely love the product. And I can see the long term impact it's going to have on my health, which is going to be amazing. So really, really looking forward to getting a nice habit going there talking of daily habits as we were before. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been an absolute pleasure. Great.

Unknown: 54:29

Well, the first thing I want to pick him up on what's all this getting an AI producer. Let's just delete that part of the conversation now, shall we? I don't want you getting any

Ollie Collard: 54:39

longer. I think you're definitely safe with that. Don't worry.

Unknown: 54:45

But you know what I saw. Part of my other work I saw is working in newsrooms and I saw there was in Qh they introduced a queue at newsreader an AI news reader. This is Oh my goodness is going to be coming How exciting. But the way he talks about it, though, is around, certainly in terms of AI in general around the changing skill set and the other things and actually being more excited about what our time then gets freed up to do, and how it will change. And actually, I felt optimistic listening to him.

Ollie Collard: 55:16

Yeah, and I think if you're utilising AI in any form of your business or your job, I think it can give you some more time to actually concentrate on the more value added stuff, the creative part, because that's what AI ultimately can't do. So it's about how you utilise it to do some sort of maybe lower level stuff in terms of coming up with ideas or enabling you to get over writer's block, and freeing up a bit of your time, as I say, to actually focus on the things that matter. As you are, I do see it as an optimistic future. I don't think the robots are going to be replacing everything just yet.

Unknown: 55:54

Few, thank goodness, it's an interesting conversation, I'd definitely be happy to hear more from him on that. In terms of advice, let's gather this up and kind of savour it, because I think this is so true. He said, You could fail at something you don't like doing very much. But you could take a chance on doing something that you love. And I think we all need to hear that from time to time, don't we?

Ollie Collard: 56:16

And I think it's you know, if you're running your own business, like, it is hard, hard, hard work, as you know, I think it's if you're not doing something that you're passionate about and that you love, then ultimately it's just going to become a chore. It really is. And I think like say if you're doing a business where you don't really care about the industry or the product, then quite quickly, you're gonna fall out of love with it. Unless you're getting somebody else to run that business for you. It's probably going to fail. So as far as it says, it's so important to do something that you care about that gets you out of bed in the morning, because when those times are tough, that's what's going to make the difference.

Unknown: 56:59

He also poses a very interesting question, and I am going to be intrigued to see how our listeners answer this. I wonder how you might Ollie although it might be putting the spotlight on you slightly. But he asked, What's the one thing you would recommend or the you did in your daily routine that had the biggest return on investment on life? Like I feel like we looking for the golden bullet of this is the Do One Thing daily, and then everything will be okay. That's that's, that's interesting. But what I think is is probably also quite personal. And this is not me avoiding his question. Everyone is different. It's like some people want a one hour morning routine to themselves, where they can journal where you can stuff that I am awake half the night with a small child, if I get up an hour before, it's a miracle, so that isn't going to work for me. So I'm not going to feel bad about that. But it's a personal thing. But it works amazingly for some people. And it has worked really well for me in the past. But I'm trying to think of what works. What works really well for everyone, you know, what I might put in the mix here, go from I'm kind of torn between a few different things. But I know that I always feel better. If I do, I suppose a mini review of the day before I go to bed. And it starts with all the and I simply put the three things that I'm really grateful for or happy for and what made them happen. Because I know it's natural, especially when you get into bed. And it's a quiet point in the day. That might be the one time when you actually start to process and catch up with everything that's gone on. And it's easy. If you are feeling a bit overworked and anxious about stuff or just stressed to focus on the things that aren't going very well your brain will do that. So I would say if that's the case, write that thing down. But also try and finish the day with a actually do you know what these things were really good. And I found a little diary that I did from the early days of having my daughter because I found that wonderful, but also a very different experience is quite challenging. I'd spent my entire life trying to work from about the age of 13. So then having a child and it kind of stopping and being so different. And I used to write down the three things I was so pleased about, and happy to see and that I enjoyed but also one thing that I did for myself and I found that diary recently. And then my little one was like oh, what's that mummy and I was sharing it with her and actually, that felt so nice. That was that was real and and an honest account of what it was like at that time. But it made me feel good at the time. Because I was focusing on the positives, I was acknowledging what was required, and I could save them afterwards. And all of that produces a lot of wonderful serotonin. So I that's going to be mine.

Ollie Collard: 59:34

What a wonderful experience by that.

Unknown: 59:36

It's amazing. It's really nice. Yeah, I

Ollie Collard: 59:39

love that. Yeah. And I think like say it's taking that time to do a reflection of the day, you know, things that went really well. It just puts you in that positive frame of mind, which I think is so important, particularly being a founder and a business owner. In terms of what you said about your first point now I completely agree like I hate Seeing all this stuff on social media about, you know, getting up at 4am, doing a journal and doing all this stuff. And it's like, yeah, that might work for some people, but it doesn't mean that it's going to work for you. So I think people need to find out really what works for them. Instead of sharing something that works for me, I find a big one of just making sure the day before just planning out my day. Because often, if you've got time on your hands, then you know things can slip, you can procrastinate. So I think if you're being quite measured with right, I'm going to do this for half an hour, then this half an hour, have a 15 minute break. And the important thing is is in trying to stick to that. So I think yeah, setting your intention, then sticking to it is the biggest game changer for me, personally speaking.

Unknown: 1:00:45

Yeah, I am with you. Actually, that's a salsa thing that I like doing. Okay, so there is a very special discount code to for listeners have found in grounded. So if you like the sound of what you've heard of, if the vision of Ali doing his exercises at home in front of this magic mirror, just what it is, with your own kind of personal training workout at home. And who wouldn't like this with feedback as well. So just get over the fact you're actually seeing yourself in a mirror, it's going to be the fastest way to learn, and then get those reps right, then you can take a look at our show notes. And the details for the special code will be in that. So thank you, Darren for that. And we'd love to hear how you get on if you decide to take him up on his offer. Now then, just before we finish for today, on this picking up on the subject of social as we always do, let's just head to our community leads Samantha because we want to find out what has been said off the back of the last episode that we had with our other fabulous featured entrepreneur. So Sam just reminded us who was on the podcast and what it was they wanted to know. We spoke to Dan from heights, secret leaders, and kindling media, who after a long time of wanting to be able to chat with him on this podcast, we were thrilled to have him come and share his incredible story of the business journey and his biggest growth journey today. Of course, becoming a dad, being a parent and a business owner is such a big undertaking. And so many of you are going through similar or are thinking about going through similar. So balancing that parenting and running your business was a fantastic topic to hear about alongside Dan's journey along the way. So we talked a lot about the things that have changed since Dan became a dad, that journey of parenting. But it's so tiring, but so rewarding alongside running a business. But of course, there is no guidebook. And this is something that Dan shared in his conversation with us all. It was absolutely brilliant to see all the feedback from you, as so many of you really pleased to see Dan on the podcast had been following him for a long time. I'm really interested in inspired by his story. And of course, a lot of you going through really similar who shared that you are also dads of young children, while setting up businesses. Some of you set up your businesses in lockdown. And the feedback is fantastic. We had some of you sharing that the learning journey is immense. But as Dan has said that there's no book on how to do it and that it affects everybody completely different. So finding a way to work through that journey is really important. We also had somebody who shared that they have their first kid three months ago, congratulations, Alfie, and launched a business less than a year ago two, so two massive big changes. And the feedback was that it is like having two startups which completely You're so right. It's such a big undertaking. Lots of you are really loving what Dan had to say and his business and are really proud customers of what Dan does. So please do go and check that out as well. If you are interested in following Dan's journey, learn a little bit more about what he had to share. Or if like Dan, you are a parents of young children or thinking about having young children and a business to juggle all at the same time. Definitely go and listen. There's no guidebook to how to run a business and raise young children. It's different for everyone. But the more experience the more we can hear from each other. learn from each other's journey, the easier it gets, and the more we feel like we're not quite so alone on that journey. If you have a thoughts on this topic, or after having listened to Dan's episode, have anything to share, please do come and find us on social media. Iidea we would love to hear your thoughts on this episode and on this topic. Great stuff. So Ali, who have we got next time? I may have mentioned his name already,

Ollie Collard: 1:05:09

but he did allude to it before Laura. So we've got Johnny Palmer, who is absolute character. He's a serial entrepreneur and investor, originally from Australia and he's got so many things going on. And I learned so much from him when I went on his Boeing seven to seven that he's got pitched up in brislington in Bristol.

Unknown: 1:05:30

Amazing, okay, so you can already tell it's going to be a little bit different. So make sure you join us for that episode in two weeks time. Thank you so much for listening today. Take care. Thank you for listening to founded and grounded with Ollie collard and Laura Rawlings. If you've enjoyed this free podcast, we'd love you to recommend it to someone else. You can leave a review on Apple podcasts regardless of where you get your podcasts from. And join our online community and share your comments with us. We're on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram is always good to hear from you