Yuup: Turning Experiences into Businesses

As an early-stage founder, the decision to bootstrap or raise capital can make or break your business.

But don't worry, serial entrepreneur Dominic Mills has been there and has the answers you need to succeed.

We uncover the power of community, localism, and entrepreneurship as we follow Dominic's journey from exit to founding his latest startup, Yuup -  a marketplace that connects people with local experiences.

Key Takeaways

- Community as a Catalyst: Learn from Dominic's experience with 'Yuup' about the power of community in accelerating business growth

- Balancing Acts: Hear Dominic's take on the advantages and challenges of bootstrapping versus taking on external funding

- Leadership Mastery: Discover how to become an effective leader

Have questions about this episode? Ask our hosts, chat now via our website

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

It can be tough when they're going to be upside down or going to be downs. And therefore, having the determination to succeed and persisting with it is hugely, hugely important. You're listening to founded and grounded with Ollie collard, and Dr. Becky sage. The podcast brings you the honest realities of startup life. If you're a founder or aspiring entrepreneur, this is for you. We know running a business can be lonely and tough at times. And we want to help you get ahead with simple tips and sound advice. Every fortnight we hear inspiring stories from an early stage business owner, who's only a couple of steps ahead of you, talking about what they've learned. And as your hosts, we share our insights and experiences as founders, so you can apply this to your own business. Hello, I'm Dr. Becky sage. I'm co host and founder downgraded podcast and I'm happy to be joining Ollie collard today, Ollie, we're getting into the swing of season buying there, we are absolutely to ready. We're learning a lot about each other about the podcast and as always more about entrepreneurship and entrepreneurs. So this week, we have a new entrepreneur, as always, could you tell us a little bit more about who it is,

Ollie Collard: 1:34

we have a really interesting guest called Dominic and he's founder of a business called Yup, which is a marketplace that connects people with experiences started in our hometown here in Bristol. And Dominic is a serial entrepreneur. So actually, he brings some different experiences and what you learn from his first businesses, how that's influenced his next one is really interesting. So

Unknown: 1:58

it was really fascinating to frame our learnings based on what it is to have somebody who understands what it is to do this multiple times, I think we can really learn a lot from serial entrepreneurs. And of course, the data says that if you've founded a business before, you're more likely to be successful. I think the stats

Ollie Collard: 2:15

of actually your first business is probably never the one that's going to make it. And then I think once people have got the bug, they definitely come back time and time again, even if they've got, you know, made millions in their first business, actually, they that they live by entrepreneurship, it really is what drives them. And that's why you see many entrepreneurs coming back time and time again.

Unknown: 2:35

Yeah, absolutely. I think we all have that engine going inside of us. Although there was another engine that I think was really the theme of this podcast, which was to do with community being an engine and driver for growth. And I think being born and bred in Bristol, it's not a surprise to me that a business is born out of the local community because I think Bristol is very strong in terms of its local communities. And Dominic has taken that and then use community as this driver of growth. So I'm really excited to explore that further. Shall we have a listen to hear how Dominic got started with the app, the site in

Ollie Collard: 3:18

Europe is a marketplace for experiences that were started just before the pandemic. So can you take me back to how you came up with the idea? But more importantly, how did you go from that initial idea to turning it into a business?

Unknown: 3:34

Absolutely. So it's probably worth briefly touching on my story pre. Yep, I was very fortunate to have the experience of building a previous business. And exiting that business at the end of or fairly late in 2019. And at that point, I was thinking about what next. And I wasn't sure what I wanted to do next. But the the two things that I was clear on, were first of all, that I liked the idea of creating a product because I'd spent the previous decade or so creating digital products for, for clients in an agency business. And second, I liked the idea of creating something that would have a positive social impact on the city of of Bristol, which is a place I'm very passionate about and a place that I feel has been good to me. So those are the two kind of founding thoughts if you like. And then as I guess it's often the case for founders. When I was thinking about what the business might be, it was a personal experience that kind of inspired was the inspirational moment I was looking to buy a birthday gift for my wife and had decided that I wanted to buy her an experience, perhaps not the first experiences that come to mind spa days and track days for example. Nothing wrong with that type of experience, but I wanted to find something that was very authentically Bristol. And so I started my my search and what I decided other words, is that there are literally hundreds or I should say there are hundreds of artists and makers and creators in a city like Bristol who have something they're super passionate about and want to share and want to use it as a way to generate an income, but very often don't have the support and marketing tools to get the word out there. So my Google searches often resulted in a web page that said, Hey, call me to chat about booking this in or email me for more information. And I'm one of those people who if I can't do something on my phone, in a couple of moments, quite often forget to do so or lose interest. So it got me thinking, if we could bring all of these people together into a community in a marketplace, then that would be great for them, because it would give them a platform to showcase I think they're passionate about. But also it'd be great for people like us who are looking to find cool things to, to do and to gift. And so that was the that was the first moment. So

Ollie Collard: 5:57

Dominic, I heard you talking about the concept of peak stuff, which essentially is where people have got to a point where they've got so much material possessions, they don't actually need any more. So how did you come across this? Is it through personal experience? And how does that relate into? Yup.

Unknown: 6:18

So I think it was probably something that I was conscious or conscious of in my own life, but hadn't ever kind of vocalised. And when researching in the early days of Europe, the more I read, the more apparent it became to me that it was a big, global trend. And I think it comes from, from various things, there's a very strong kind of environmental sustainable mobility aspect to it, where we're society, we're becoming more conscious of what we buy, and how our activities impact our planet in and every time we buy a physical thing. Clearly, there are ramifications. And then also this idea that life is about creating moments and memories. And that's something that you can do very effectively by having experiences. And that is, comes out all of the time in the feedback that we get from from people who do experiences on Yelp. And in fact, I even now two years in tried to find time every morning to read customer reviews, because first it's a brilliant way of getting insight and feedback. But second, they're almost always a celebration of the experience host under the the experience of the customers and the host shared and they talk about those moments. And those memories that they've made with family or friends who attended the experience with them, you

Ollie Collard: 7:40

know, got 100,000 users on board. And I know you're expanding into different cities, which is amazing. But going back to those early days, when you were kind of solving that initial pain point for yourself trying to buy your wife a gift and experience, you'd obviously come up with a concept you'd probably built out a kind of a Betta platform, how did you go from that test into making it into a commercial activity.

Unknown: 8:05

So we took the decision to launch the business in January 2020. And whatever it was a 10 weeks later, it was when we all found out about COVID. So it was an odd time to decide to start a business. We were fortunate in a way that it happened at that point in in the apps journey. And obviously for many businesses, particularly many small, independent businesses, the ramifications were extremely serious. We were at a very early stage in our journey. So we were actually able to use those lockdown periods to figure out our proposition and create a brand and start building our technology. And it was really coming out of that lockdown period that we started then to think about putting the app out into the marketplace and testing it. So if you remember but there's a short gap at the end of 2020. of about two and a half months between the two big lockdowns just before Christmas. And we thought to help out was at the time exactly that. Yes. So we we use that time to get out there and do some testing with about I think was about 40 hosts, and got some really great feedback and insight. And then of course, the country went back into lockdown again over Christmas 2023 to March of 21. And so it was really in April 2021, that we properly launched the business. And as everyone came out of that lockdown, and surprisingly, they were desperately keen to get out and discover new things. So it was a great time for our host because of course, there was a lot of pent up demand and appetite to to go do things.

Ollie Collard: 9:40

Amazing and talking about kind of the funding of the business. I mean, was this all personally funded from your exit? Or did you take on? I know you've taken on external capital last year, which we'll come back to but how did you get going in the early days? Yeah, so

Unknown: 9:55

our previous business, had six founders who including myself, who all agreed to support me out, which was fantastic. And they all invested in the business at the outset, in addition, in some cases, to also investing significant amount of their time. And that enabled us to build the platform and launch the business. And then going into our second year, we did some fundraising, which really fell into three categories. So we went out and did a crowd race. And the main reason for that was we were keen to give the community that we were building the opportunity to get even more directly involved in the business. So it really excites me that a lot of our hosts a bunch of our customers, our shareholders in in Yep. And then we did an angel raise as off the back of that crowd raise. So we have a small number of angel investors. And then last year, as you mentioned, we did our first kind of institutional raise with Bristol and bath regional capital.

Ollie Collard: 10:59

One of the things that stands out for me from an outsider's perspective, looking in there appears to be kind of free core principles that really support Yup. So outside looking in, I really think it focuses on a community, B the concept of localism. And lastly, entrepreneurship. So my question to you, Dominic, is what do each of these mean to you? And how do you foster each one of these?

Unknown: 11:26

So which one should we start with community? Yep. So I think really, yup, is all about community in the broadest possible sense. And to take a couple of examples of that. I, the time I started this business, I'd lived in Bristol for 20 years, had spent quite a lot of time in Bristol before that. And I thought I knew and understood the city. But if there's one thing that running yet, for the last two years has taught me a huge amount about the city that I didn't know either communities that I had not visited or been part of, or simply things that happen in our city opportunities to do things I was unaware of. So it's really kind of opened my eyes, in that sense to the the diverse communities that we have in our city, but also the incredible talent that we have. And you really have to kind of get out there and discover it. And hopefully, the platform is now helping people to do that. But more than that, I think one of the things that COVID taught a lot of people is that they want to support the community on their their doorstep. And if you look at that through any lens from going out and finding things to do on a Friday night, if you're looking for something as an alternative to, to that great virtue tradition of going to the pub, there are literally hundreds of things you can do on your doorstep, and things that you can enjoy your family and friends. And so getting involved in those sorts of activities directly benefits the community, because you're putting money in the hands of individuals or small businesses, independent businesses, who desperately need that support. Now more than ever, so I think there's a really kind of strong community aspect. But then, moving on that idea again, the other thing that a lot of people said to me when we started talking about Yup, is that loneliness in society is a big deal now. And if we think about that, from you know, various different demographics, it, it can be true of any one, there's clearly a strong mental well being aspect to that. And one of the things that comes out a lot is that people find doing these experiences, a really strong social experience, whether it's going to a pottery class, and meeting four or five people who are there, because they want to try pottery for the first time and or in some cases, they may be experts who go and do it every week. They're partly there for the pottery. But often, they're there even more so for the social experience and the connection. And I think that's pretty cool in terms of fostering those relationships, but also supporting those local communities.

Ollie Collard: 14:02

And there's lots in the news about if you spend the pound locally, it has a much bigger impact on the local economy, if you're spending it with an independent business. So obviously, your your platform enables that. So how do you encourage entrepreneurship and people to actually step outside of their comfort zone and maybe start their own business?

Unknown: 14:24

So I think our hosts broadly fall into two categories, there are those people who have already sussed out the thing that they're passionate about, and are perhaps using it to generate some income. And what Yep, gives them is a platform and a set of tools to kind of elevate that. So for example, we've had people who, perhaps were making ceramics and earning money from selling those ceramics to thinking Hang on, I could run pottery classes, and that being something that they initially saw as a you know, a side hustle and now in some In cases, businesses are employing three or four people to deliver the pottery classes and experiences that they're now taking bookings for. And then on the other hand, individuals who perhaps have a day job Monday to Friday, they might be doing something completely different. But they have a thing at the weekend that they're really passionate about, perhaps they do it with their friends. And they've been thinking for a while, well, you know, I'd love to burn my living off some of my living from from doing that thing. And, uh, yep, has given them a way of doing that in a very effective, you know, without an upfront investment is in a safe way they can do it alongside their day job, they can do it once a month, if it works, they can do it twice a month, and so on and so on. And we've had some brilliant stories of people who have used, yup, as a way of pivoting the thing they do, so that they go from doing the thing that they do, because it pays the bills, but they don't love to something they're deeply passionate about and exists to pay the bills. And the other experience we've had, particularly off the back of COVID are many people who sadly lost their jobs as a result of either the pandemic or the economic circumstances that transpired following the pandemic. And that's forced them to reconsider how they earn a living. And they have been able to use the platform. And I think that they love to do that. And every time I hear one of those stories, it's kind of reminds me why we're doing this thing. Without

Ollie Collard: 16:26

getting too sloppy. It's enabling people to fulfil their dreams in reality.

Unknown: 16:30

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Which is, which is pretty cool. It is

Ollie Collard: 16:34

amazing. And I think what I like about it is a you're enabling those who are already hosts and running an experience to increase visibility and reach and ultimately revenue to their back pocket, and then also be encouraging those side hustlers to take their passion and turn it into their full time business essentially, word

Unknown: 16:59

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Ollie Collard: 19:32

Yeah, I mean, Dominic isn't, you know he definitely doesn't fall at the first hurdle. He's got that inbuilt resilience in him. And that's probably come from obviously running his previous business. So I think when when the challenges face entrepreneurs, they focus on why they're doing it and what's really important to them. Clearly with this business, it's all based around community and having that wider impact. And I think what I really love about the business is it reminds me of, you know, opening up opportunities for people to be able to To turn their passion into profit, it kind of reminds me like if you look at other marketplaces that launched over the previous decades, things like eBay, where you know, you can buy and sell stuff on a platform whereby it's already got the inbuilt traffic in it. So a lot of what people are scared off when they're launching their first venture is I got to sell myself, I got to generate lots of marketing and activity and do SEO and drive traffic. Whereas he's actually developed this platform where there's a big audience coming to it. And it's enabling people to concentrate on what they're really good at in terms of actually creating wonderful experiences. And that's making it great for the customer. Great for Yup, great for the wider community. And I think it's just such a clever model.

Unknown: 20:47

Absolutely. And I think we were talking in the introduction about having this, this engine of entrepreneurship, and that this real driver to kind of keep building businesses. But I think some people are actually more interested in doing what they do really, really well. And they don't want to do all of those other aspects of building a business and Dominic's identified that and really understands those people who want to, of course, make a living and do the thing they love. And ideally do that not having to have another job and, and he's enabled people to start to generate income from what they love, without having to do all of that other business building, which might not be their their dream, their goal, their desire, their expertise. 100%.

Ollie Collard: 21:35

And I think a lot of entrepreneurs don't like the business side of running a business, they want to concentrate on what they're good at, and where they can add value. So I think it's such a perfect opportunity for them to be able to concentrate on the things that really do get them out of bed in the morning.

Unknown: 21:51

Another lesson we can learn from Dominic is looking at how he came up with this business idea. Now, there's a common thread that people have their own personal experiences. And then that leads them ultimately to start a business based on those problems that they were having. And that's exactly what happened for Dominic. But what I thought was particularly interesting here is how he came up with one business. And he actually already had in mind that he wanted to deal with incentives. So he was looking for opportunities. But he wasn't trying to push opportunities. And I thought that this is a really great lesson to learn as well, where often I think we can try to grab opportunities, especially again, if you've got that entrepreneurial behaviour, or you've got that drive, and you really want to create something that it can be very easy to push, and perhaps not even lean into the right opportunity. Whereas Dominic kind of gave it some time and let this idea come to him. Whilst having an idea of what he wants to do, because he wanted it to be product based. He really wanted to make an impact locally. So he kind of had this framework already or these principles by which he wanted to start the business. And when an opportunity came along, he was able to identify it. Do you think that too many people rushing to their businesses and their businesses, business ideas?

Ollie Collard: 23:12

I think sometimes particularly first time entrepreneurs do and overused phrase but kind of square peg round hole is there looking to create something that they're kind of so tunnel vision focused on? I think where Dominic has done this really nicely is, as you said, he said that, that time to ruminate and let the idea foster and develop over time. And I think what's interesting is that he's obviously created as his own lane. So he's not bound by following a blueprint or doing things in a particular structured way. He's actually saying, right, this is the problem is a problem that I face. And this is the solution I want to create. And I think it's going to add lots of value to everybody involved. And I think that's enabled him to build such a wonderful business because he's had that time. And that reflection, and the fact that he's a second time entrepreneur,

Unknown: 24:05

I think you've identified something really important there, which is about giving the space to be innovative and to be unique, and to put your own stamp on what you do. I think if we go into that tunnel vision, it's very, very easy to go into a sort of productivity mode, and then all you can really do is copy other people because you're not giving space to create and even co create with the community, which is also obviously important. Yup. And so I think that yeah, being able to take the step back is such an important thing to do have perspective, have space to be creative and to create with others. Of course, some people might be listening and I think I had this as well when I was listening, which was thinking, Oh, but Dominic just exited another business and he's probably got lots of cash come out of that deal. And they said that they were able to fund part of this business with Have some cash. So he's in a really privileged position to be able to maybe have space where other people might think they don't have space. Do you think that's actually true? Or do you think this is assumptions that we're making, or I might be making others might be making about that situation,

Ollie Collard: 25:17

I think from the outside looking in, it can be very easy to make that assumption, you see an exit founder, you assume they've come away with a really good deal. But what everyone has to remember is that his first business was with six of them. So obviously, dilution of that, and any exit that was was given out was divided amongst them. And also, wherever they took on outside cap, you know, when that's all the deals are done, at the end of the day, how much net money actually comes into the fund. And that's what you've got to realise. So I think it's sometimes dangerous to make these assumptions, obviously, you know, he's probably done relatively well, but we don't know, you know, how much time and by the way that's given him, it could be that you only had six months? Or it could be that he had years, we ultimately don't know. Yeah,

Unknown: 26:03

absolutely. And I know, from my situation, I've exited a business. But it wasn't such a thing where it's like, oh, I never have to work again now. Or I can just throw cash wherever I want wanting to go. And I have quite a few peers who started businesses at similar time to me, and they all had different exit deals, there's always structured to exit deals as well, it's not necessarily like, Oh, you're done with the business now or somebody else's acquired it. So you're never going to be putting time into it, or you're just gonna get this like pile of cash out at the end, as as kind of glamorised and new romanticises. That might sound when we talk about an exit. So for those who are in a position where they're thinking, I'd love to give space to my new business idea. But I'm so busy. And I know, I kind of have to jump in on this one that's here right now. And I have to just go down that route. Have you got any thoughts about how people can create more space when perhaps they don't have any kind of runway? So

Ollie Collard: 27:04

really good question. Actually, I think first and foremost, it's about starting with your own personal lifestyle. So it's identifying, you know, what are your overheads? What does it cost you each month to keep the lights on and still maintain a relatively decent level of living? And I think if you're cutting back on things and saying, Well, what is essential for the next year, I'm gonna start this business, what is essential? What do I need? What is a nice to have? What can I cut back on, I think you're, you'll quickly realise that you can probably cut about 50% of your overheads. And what that means is that that place is less pressure on the business to generate revenue. And ultimately, it means that you can leave more profit within the business to reinvest. Whereas if you're taking out a lot of money, then it's gonna Yeah, as I say, put a lot of stress on you and the business. So I think first and foremost, identifying your, your personal living costs and trying to reduce those. And then also maybe just taking things on the side, like, it doesn't have to be something related to what you're doing. It could be doing, like a new delivery job, or something completely unrelated. That actually gives you a bit of time and space to think about the business when you're not working on it. And I think that's really important. Yeah,

Unknown: 28:18

and such good advice. I think it's we rarely talk about personal finances, in the context of business, it doesn't come up very much. But it's actually so important. And often when I'm working with founders, I still feel quite intrusive if I ask about their personal financial situation, but I do think it's really key it because it is this thing that can add a lot of extra stress. And if a founder is under a lot of extra stress, they don't necessarily make the best decisions for the business. So talking of money, yep, has had to take external funding. And so we wanted to find out a little bit more about the lessons that Dominic learned from fundraising. Let's have a listen. It's a great question. I mean, I think my biggest learning about fundraising, which would apply to all of those categories of fundraising, is questioned whether or not you need to do it. There's a lot of hype about fundraising for startups, and almost a badge of honour that people wear because they've gone out and done fundraising. And I think particularly the relationship between startups and VCs, for example. And, of course, there are some types of business where it is absolutely right to fundraise you know, if you're building a deep tech business and and there's a huge ramp to get that product to market and the r&d phases of that. But I think if you're able to, you know, bootstrap a business and take it a long way, or maybe even all of the way without going through that process, then there's a lot of good reasons to go that route not not least the fact that you maintain your equity but even more. So it's a huge distraction, which will take me to the second lesson, which is it's a huge distraction. And I was fortunate through that process to have people around me to support and drive a lot of that activity. But you have to be clear on what you're taking out to investors, there's obviously the regulatory aspects of, of doing it. And however much support you've got, and however well organised you are it inevitably distracts from the day to day of building and growing the business.

Ollie Collard: 30:35

And that was gonna lead me on to my next question actually was about your kind of support network, who keeps you firing and all cylinders? Who do you call when things are going wrong? Who do you lean on? When things aren't going to plan? Yes.

Unknown: 30:48

So I think when you're creating something like this, you need a very broad range of support. And I'm fortunate at several levels, I started this business with five individuals who I'd worked with in our previous business. And on a for example, our CFO, is an incredibly accomplished, and experienced CFO who's been through pretty much every life stage of a business, including, you know, from from a start up to a scale of significant fundraising, significant exit. So just taking that one example, we have a calibre of CFO in the business that normally a startup at our stage just simply wouldn't have. So that's incredibly valuable to tee up and the stages that we've been through before. But then I think beyond that the support outside the business to people who aren't connected with a business, not least of all, my wife, Karen, who's, you know, lift, this is the second time she's been through this journey with me. And when your partner is creating a business, and with the best will in the world, it is there seven days a week, you know, you're not escaping from it, you are a team in that. And you have to, you know, work at it together both to you might not be both working in the business. Karen doesn't work in Europe. But inevitably, because it's such a big thing that's happening. It's a team effort to make it so.

Ollie Collard: 32:20

And talking of that kind of emotional and mental support that partners need to provide founders of businesses, what do you think your your wife would say to other partners? Who are potentially thinking of running a business? What would she say,

Unknown: 32:37

we should get her on the podcast? I think this may, that's a tough one, I think she would probably say that, you know, you need to, you need to be prepared that it's always there. I mean, a brilliant example of that is we went to Italy in August for a two week holiday, which was the first kind of proper family holiday we'd had, for goodness, two years. And it was supposed to be two weeks where we, where we switched off or more to the point I switched off. And that meant I was present in the holiday. But we Yup, we're working on a deal that was supposed to conclude a really important deal, we're supposed to conclude, two or three weeks before we went away. And as is often the case where these things it didn't. And so it ran through the holiday. And as a result, I spent four or five days, every day that we were on holiday on Zoom calls, and phone calls, getting this thing off the line. And eventually we closed it the day after we flew home. And if you're in a nine to five job, that's not something that normally you have to worry about. But if you're running a business, if you want the business to succeed and grow, that's something that you have to kind of accept and understand. And that's not something that the person running the business can do on their own. They have to work collaboratively with their partner to make sure that it doesn't impact negatively on on family life. So I'm very, very fortunate that Karen was incredibly supportive and understanding of that. So yes, I think if she was sat here, the message with would be you need to be supportive and understanding.

Ollie Collard: 34:16

Thank you so much for sharing that. Dominic. I think that's really refreshing to hear and about the impact that running a business does have on family life because it's not often spoken about and you know, all joking aside, have you booked another holiday a week away to repay Karen are

Unknown: 34:32

we actually have her birthday tomorrow and we have a long weekend planned this weekend. So I'm gonna do my level best to keep them keep the MacBook shut.

Ollie Collard: 34:40

There we go. Excellent. So Rewinding back to your first business aurus. What's one mistake that you made with that business you made? Sure you didn't make with? Yup.

Unknown: 34:51

So I think the two businesses are very, very different. One of the lessons that it took took us quite a long time to learn in office was the importance of partnership. So it was an agency business. And one of the things about agency businesses is that you're only as good as your client relationships. And you are constantly working to wouldnt client accounts, which often have a finite life because they're project based. And partway through our journey with that business, we recognise that establishing some partnerships with other businesses, which in that case, were technology vendors, would enable us to create some structure to the way that we did business development and and create longer term relationships with our clients, because essentially, they were aligned to the technology. And so, within Europe, the idea of partnership and partnering was baked into the business from a very, very early stage. And if I look at what are now some of our biggest growth drivers partnership is absolutely crucial to that growth. So the idea of very early in the lifecycle, figuring out a partnership strategy, figuring out how complementary businesses can support and equally importantly, how you can support these partners, I think is crucial.

Ollie Collard: 36:16

Excellent, and talking of failures and learnings that you've had along your entrepreneurial career. What is one of your favourite failures? And what were the lessons that you took from that?

Unknown: 36:29

I think, making tough decisions quickly, again, in my first business, there were occasions where the emotional aspect of running a business got in the way, the way that the team are, and how they're looked after is incredibly important to me, I take the role of employing people very seriously, I think it's a big responsibility and something that you shouldn't do lightly. Ultimately, our team who are amazing are the business and there are times when you need to make difficult decisions, and you need to accept people from the business. But that needs to be done in the right way. And it needs to be done in a timely fashion. And if you know that there's a problem sitting on it, because you know, it's going to be difficult, typically will make it worse. And when I was in my early 20s, learning how to build a business for the first time. There was certainly occasion that's where I got that wrong.

Ollie Collard: 37:29

So once you know there's a problem act on it, essentially,

Unknown: 37:32

yeah, and do so in a in a in a fair and open way. And I obviously there are certain aspects of those conversations that are between you and the individual. But I mean, open in terms of being open about the rationale and open with the rest of the team about the reason you're making that decision.

Ollie Collard: 37:50

And I think business has a funny way of Crossing Paths, again, with people in the future. So you don't always know where, you know, you might meet this person again, and there might be some value that they cannot to you.

Unknown: 38:01

Yeah, absolutely. And also, it's never about the individual. It's about the business. And I think if you remember that and explaining your decisions in the context of that. It's never going to be an easy situation, but it should make it easier.

Ollie Collard: 38:18

So great point. And talking of sacrifices that you've made along your business journey we've heard there about, obviously, leisure time and holidays. But is there anything else that you've sacrificed either consciously, or subconsciously,

Unknown: 38:33

I think another big difference between my first business and this one is when I started a business in my 20s. Without family commitments, on occasion, Karen would probably argue fairly regularly, I would work seven days a week. And I would work long days. And I recognise that the thing that was going to drive the business forward was kind of investment of time. And so this time round, I'm in a very different situation, I have a beautiful, nearly five year old daughter, who is my number one priority. And that means I need to learn to do things differently, I need to change my working pattern. I need to be present when I'm at home, whatever is going on in the business. And so that's a whole new skill to develop and new way of working if you like so it's a it's a it's a different way of running a business and hopefully actually makes me a better leader as well as hopefully being a better father.

Ollie Collard: 39:43

I love that Dominic very refreshing to hear and having a nearly five year old myself as well and starting school for the first time in September and all the challenges that that brings. I think like you say your priorities and outlook on life does change and hopefully it's for the better. Absolutely.

Unknown: 40:03

So sacrifice is something that Dominic has just picked up on there. And we often talk about sacrifice when it comes to entrepreneurship. But I argue that everybody in life in whatever line of work they're in is making sacrifices, we're just using to prioritise certain things, which means other things cannot be prioritised. And that feels can feel like a sacrifice. So I think prioritisation is just such an important skill for an entrepreneur, and to understand that everything you're doing is about making choices. And so that's something that Dominic talked about with regard to funding as well, that external funding is a choice, not just something you should get pulled into. And I can completely understand why entrepreneurs think that they have to go down this route of getting external funding, because there's so much rhetoric around it. And people talk about external funding a lot. And of course, many businesses do need external funding. But actually, it's not always appropriate for business. And once you're in the swing of getting that external funding, you never really get out of it. Again, I experienced there. So I vividly remember, starting to go into that space of preparing pitches, doing pitches, talking to investors, getting some funding in and then having to go through the whole process again, and everyone thinks so you get the funding, and then you can focus on building the business, and it doesn't really work like that you're just in the swing of it. That was something that therefore added a lot of extra pressure, a lot of extra stress and meant that, that that was a priority, and other things couldn't necessarily be focused on. So what sort of factors do you think come into play when we talk about whether or not a business should get external funding? Before

Ollie Collard: 41:59

I answer that question, Becky, I just want to go back to your previous point about prioritisation. And I think that is such a valid point. I think people make sacrifices constantly in life, whether you're in the same the corporate career market, it could be that you're doing a long commute, you have to play politics at a very high level, you're going after that next promotion. So there's definitely sacrifices that you're doing, but maybe you're not so conscious of it. But I think entrepreneurship makes that more obvious. And you have to be very clear on what you are potentially giving up. But I think it is actually quite freeing, it gives you that enablement to think right, I'm doing things on my own term, I'm doing it my own way. And actually, it's given me a new lease of life. That's what often entrepreneurs say, particularly for doing it for the first time. In regards to funding. Absolutely. I think once you get on that treadmill, then it's very hard to stop. Like you might raise your first seed round, and you're looking at maybe series A and then, you know, you're taking on so much capital to put that rocket fuel into the business is hard to stop. I think what Dominic said really nicely was that it is a choice. And you've got to make that that conscious choice about whether you're going to go down that route or not. I mean, obviously, there are some businesses, particularly tech startups, or, you know, science focused r&d businesses where that is that, you know, that hockey stick where that dip comes in, and you need something to obviously plug that gap. So whether it's grant funding or looking at taking on external capital, then yeah, is something that you do need, unfortunately, a phrase that I heard really nicely is entrepreneurs that have taken on external capital get very good at spending money, bootstrapped, entrepreneurs get very good at making money. And I think that's a really good mindset to have. Because ultimately, the money is not yours, like You've obviously done some very hard yards to get the money through the door. And then, you know, probably hundreds of pictures and heard lots of nose along the way, but it's not your money. I think if you're bootstrapping, you're in control of the business, first and foremost, and you have got ultimate control, you're not answerable to anybody else, apart from your co founders, if you've got one. So I think actually puts you in a position where you've got control, and you can grow the business more organically. So it is, like you said, coming back to your original point, everything in business and in life is a trade off. So one decision affects another, what you

Unknown: 44:36

just described there sounded like a very strong leadership mindset, that ability to have agency in what you do. And so like really at the core of you, being that leader in your own life in your own business, you're here you're making choices, and you need to be mindful of those choices as you go On. Of course, leadership is also related to the way the team is managed. And that's something that Dominic talked about as well. And I feel like from listening to him, this was his biggest lesson from his first business that he was able to take forward, he talked about the way the team are, and how they're looked after, is vital. And so again, as entrepreneurs, were just talking about, kind of getting into this cycle of funding and having to focus on funding having to focus on generating income, we have to focus on our team as well. And I think that sometimes this is something that founders can really struggle with, because they haven't even necessarily come from that kind of background, a lot of the time, a lot of people I work with, it's almost an afterthought, the team, because it's hasn't been their core skill set. And so there's a lot of work to do, to get the team to kind of the way they are, as Dominique puts it, or to be really consider of the way they are, and to nurture that talent. So actually, your team becomes such an asset to you, it takes pressure off you and doesn't add pressure. If

Ollie Collard: 46:10

you're growing a business that ultimately team and people are going to be at the forefront and one of your biggest assets unless you're running like an AI startup, potentially. But I feel that, you know, you've got to invest a lot into them. Whether that's things like training or going back to our last guest, Ashley and having coaching for your staff, I think you've got to look at having a team very holistically and thinking about everything. So it's not just whether there's promotion opportunities, and management positions, it's thinking about, you know, what's their, what's their wellbeing, like? Are we looking after them? Are we doing enough? Are we often people aren't just driven by money. So it's about what are the other benefits of working with the company? Like, do they talk about it very proudly, to their friends and family? I think that's so underestimated in a business. I think, if you can go and talk very passionately about your job, and be very proud in it, then I think that's one of the best measurements, I think if you're if you're investing in your staff, then ultimately if they do leave one day, you can be very proud in the fact that you've invested them, you've upskilled them. And now they've gone on to a better opportunity. How nice is it?

Unknown: 47:22

That's one of my proudest things that I did with my team. Actually, I love looking at where the team are now what they've done, the platforms, they've been given how quickly they advanced in their careers, actually, because they were part of a startup. And that that makes me feel really good about the work that we did. And so much so that since leaving my first startup, I've become a lecturer in organisational talent for entrepreneurs at the University of Exeter. So everything you just said is really spot on in terms of what it is you're trying to do as a leader. And I think that, again, you have to take stock of who you are, if you're a founder of the role you are playing, because whether you like it or not, whether you put yourself in a people position, so to speak an official role or not, you are a figurehead, you're a role model within that business. So the way you are, is going to have an impact across the whole business. So it's so important to be able to understand people to be able to communicate, and as you said, that understand what motivates people, these motivational factors are so important. And this isn't the I mean, of course everyone needs, their needs met, they need money, they need to know they're okay. And there's a certain threshold. Once we're over that those intrinsic rewards, which are ultimately going to lead somebody to go home and talk to their family about how excited they are about this business. Those are the ones that you need to focus on. And that really comes from understanding your team, listening literally and metaphor metaphorically to the team, so that you can understand them as people and what those internal drivers are. Well,

Ollie Collard: 49:08

so back here, I think if you just look at, say Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and the top of the pyramid is that self actualization, and it's about making sure that people are ultimately very motivated. And I think like you said, in terms of, you are a figurehead of the company, you're the founder, whether you're in charge of everyone in an official capacity, like HR or not, it doesn't really matter. Like, you've got to be looking after people. And I think the best way you can do that is by looking after yourself. First and foremost. So a lot of entrepreneurs on this podcast, it said, how lonely it can be at the top. So I think you've got to be having those coaches, those mentors that making you fire on all cylinders, so you can look after your team in the best way possible. So

Unknown: 49:53

one thing Dominic said is also another question I get a lot which was he said, you also need to know But if you have to get rid of people, it's not personal. So this idea of, yes, we have to give people freedom, we have to give them opportunity, we have to set clear expectations. But sometimes those things might not be met or somebody might not be a good fit. And so I think that it's also really important to, to speak about that. And to face it head on, in the sense of as a founder, you are probably going to have to fire people sometimes.

Ollie Collard: 50:30

And it's not an easy thing to do. Where Dominic's coming from, he is very mature in terms of his position on this, he's saying isn't personal, because it's not, he's got to look after the needs of the business first and foremost. And I think it can be really tough, like, you might have an amazing person who you get on really well with who, you know, might not be doing the best job, because that's not where their skill set lies. But they might not be an opportunity to create another role within the business. So yeah, letting people go is incredibly hard, particularly good people. And

Unknown: 51:04

like you said it, you said it's not personal. And I think from a business perspective, it's about objectivity. I think it's also important to remember that it's one of those situations where you have to be most empathetic to that other person as well. So because of course, it is personal to that person, because they're potentially losing their livelihood right now, it's a big deal. And I'm sure it's very scary to go through that if you're sat on the other side of the table. So it's about being able to make a clear decision, be clear about why you're making that decision. But also have some empathy for the other person. And where possible, you're often in a position to help that person as well. So thinking about where might be a good fit for them, and perhaps giving them context outside of your business.

Ollie Collard: 51:50

Great leadership, I see all the time on LinkedIn is former employees, for whatever reason are leaving the business. And they're actually saying, Look, this is such a great person, this is what they bought to our business, you should hire them. And I think, yeah, they're looking out for their next opportunity for them and taking a bit of ownership, which is really nice to

Unknown: 52:09

see. Yeah. And like you said, it shows some true leadership to be able to do that. So let's have a look now at what is next in store for Yup, they Bristol was our first to do Birmingham was their second. They're not just going for cities beginning with B. But they are looking to expand further. So should we go in future games with Dominic? Well, one of the things that I often get teased about is do we have a company policy of only going to cities, beginning with the CIO, I can categorically confirm that that's not true. But joking aside, our ambition is to take you up across the UK and ultimately further afield. And we hope to start that process or the next step in that process. Next year, one of our biggest learnings from the last few years, is we need to do it right. Because community is at the centre of what we're doing. We need to create sustainable growth, because that's the thing that's going to deliver value to the host communities that we're building. So we're being very careful not to say, we're going to do this city at this point and that city at this point, because we need to do it when it's right. And when the right opportunities present themselves. And one of the things that is really exciting is that over the last a year, we've started to be approached by cities or civic organisations in other cities that have heard about Yup, and can see the social impact that it's making. And they're saying to us, Hey, can you come and do this in our city. So the idea of expanding, using coming back to the point of partnerships, partners who discover you up and are bought into the idea of what we're doing, I hope will guide where we go next. Rather than us making a decision purely based on data, for example, or pins in a map.

Ollie Collard: 54:11

One of the key parts of founded and grounded is asking our featured founders to break down and distil just one piece of advice that they'd pass on to an early stage founder, or somebody thinking of running a business. So Dominic, I'm gonna put you on the spot here. What would that be? Persistence.

Unknown: 54:30

my single biggest lesson is that the startup journey is challenging. And when you get it right, and things are going well and you're delivering positive impact, and you're hitting the numbers or exceeding the numbers, that is fantastic and exciting and hugely, hugely rewarding, both for you and the people around you who've made it happen. But the reality of our life is it can be tough when they're going to be ups but there are going to be downs. And therefore, having the determination to succeed and persisting with it is hugely, hugely important. And you kind of have to go into it knowing that that's going to be the case. And also, when you get the setbacks and the knockbacks, be ready for that and understand that that is startup life. And you're kind of dogged determination to keep going, or see you through. And that's not to say that you shouldn't regroup and consider actually do we need to do things slightly differently, or that word that so many startup founders like to use? Pivot. But I think, you know, being determined and forging forward in those in those difficult times is a really, really important skill to develop. Great piece

Ollie Collard: 55:47

of advice that Dominic in it basically sums up the force of this podcast very nicely. So thank you for that. And lastly, where can people find out a bit more about you personally? And yup,

Unknown: 56:00

that on the website, yep.co, why up.co You can discover all of the amazing experiences and things to do on the website and read about our experience house, the backstory behind that experience is often as interesting as the experiences themselves. So yeah, I would encourage everyone to go check it out either for things to do themselves, or, as I did, at the start of this journey, something to consider gifting and sharing with someone else. Sounds

Ollie Collard: 56:30

like you might have a few potential guests for founded and grounded there as well. Absolutely. Great stuff. Dominic. Well, thank you so much for your time, it's been an absolute pleasure talking with you.

Unknown: 56:40

Thanks for having me on the show. So it's very clear, from listening to Dominic, that he is very clear about the priorities of the business. And he has a lot of clear goals. He's talked about going into new communities. But he also demonstrates a lot about how to plan for the unknown, and how to not be so fixed in what you expect to happen. But to still have frameworks in place to help you to move forward and have an idea of how you want to move forward. And in particular, I thought it's really interesting how he said that going into new communities is not going to be this kind of big strategic plan. That actually, it's all about which communities feel like the right fit, where are the right opportunities coming from, that are going to allow them to really focus on building those new communities, because he recognises that not all communities are the same, it's not the same doing Bristol, as it was doing Birmingham, doing the next city is going to be different, they have to be able to put the right focus in so they have to look for the right opportunities. So how do entrepreneurs deal with this? Because I feel like it's one of the biggest tensions versus entrepreneurs is this complete, unknown, and being able to be open for opportunity, at the same time as having to have some sort of plan or some sort of structure? Because otherwise, you're just going to be pinged bombing everywhere. It's

Ollie Collard: 58:09

a difficult challenge to face, I think what Doublelift has done really well, is that he's gone, right. And this is how we've done it for the first two cities that he could have said, right, this is our blueprint, this is how we're going to roll this out, and scale the business. But coming back to community, this is all based around community, and people and people are different in different parts of the country as well. So I think one thing that's worked well in Bristol, and Birmingham doesn't mean that it's gonna work in Newcastle. So I think that he's been very pragmatic in his approach. He's got the strategy, like the long term direction isn't going to change. But he's open to doing things differently. So it's a very nuanced mindset to have. Because he's being open. He's gonna take opportunities when they come. But he's got that long term vision about where he's going. But he's capable enough to know that it might not be the same for each rollout of Yup. Nuance

Unknown: 59:09

is one of my favourite words when it comes to entrepreneurship and leadership, because I think everything exists in the nuance in the grey areas, people are often seeking black and white answers and responses. But actually, the reality is, it's about how you are able to find that nuance. And I think that takes a lot of confidence in yourself. And like you said, Dominic's had the experience of going through a business before, he's now had the experience of building this out in Bristol and in Birmingham, and learning from those different experiences in order to allow himself to be more nuanced. And do you think that this is a difficult thing for entrepreneurs to find? is bloody difficult.

Ollie Collard: 59:56

I'm not gonna lie. I think that you know, his experience. definitely helps. And I think a lot of entrepreneurship is about that confidence. I think that it comes with time, like you're not going to be a confident entrepreneur first time around, because you're going to be making mistakes. But it's those mistakes and those learnings that you're going to implement within your next listeners and put you in a much stronger position. And I think just admitting that you don't have all of the answers all of the time. Nobody does. I don't think anyway. So I think it's about Yeah, being being self assured. And not being being confident. But again, not being overconfident. And being very bold in your assumptions. I've contradicted myself quite a few times. But hopefully, you know what I'm saying back to you.

Unknown: 1:00:47

Absolutely. I what you're saying is entrepreneurship is a contradiction, I think it's an absolutely is, this is why it is in the nuance, because you are being pulled by these different tensions. And actually, I think we talked about this last week, and these these tensions that are going to drive the business forward in a unique way. Because everything's so contextual. It's very circumstantial, and it's driven by you as the founders driven by the team, driven by the cities where the opportunities are going to arise in this particular case. So you can't be so fixed. And that can be really difficult. But again, like you said, you give it the time you learn, and you can start to trust more and not trust that things aren't going to go wrong, and challenges aren't going to happen. But the you have the capability to step up and be able to solve those challenges and move forward through the challenges rather than seeing them as a roadblock.

Ollie Collard: 1:01:45

Yeah, and also about the three parts of the investment piece as well, actually choosing the right investors, that will actually be in line with this strategy of taking a bit slower, and learning and not, you know, having this blueprint and constantly rolling it out and having that pressure on Dominic and the business. So making sure that he's got people bought into the way that he's doing things is vitally important.

Unknown: 1:02:09

Yeah, that's so true. Because you could easily find yourself in a situation where you're getting pressured to be like, that's worked in one sitting. Now let's roll that out across the whole of the UK. Now, that's roll it out to the US as well. Now, that's yeah, and do that very, very quick growth, which just wouldn't work with something like Yelp, because it's so community driven. Dominic talked a little bit more about this, when he was talking about the his his advice to everybody, which was about persistence and determination, and continuing to push forward and in particular, and forging forward in difficult times. But one thing I often think because we hear a lot about resilience. So resilience is the most important thing for an entrepreneur, something that I get very concerned about is that gets gets misinterpreted as, I'm just gonna keep hitting my head against the wall until I knock myself out. And we see this happen in entrepreneurship, where people just push and push and push, and then burn out and, and then they kind of everything just falls apart. And they don't hit their goals. So again, talking about nuance, there's nuance about persistence, and how to kind of keep going, how to forge forward, but how to be smart whilst you're doing it. And be really intrigued to hear your thoughts on that. It's

Ollie Collard: 1:03:30

a tough balance, some people can actually be a bit delusional, which unfortunately, is going to be to their detriment. However, other founders do have that persistence to keep going, getting out of bed day after day, putting in the hard yards, the hard work and remembering that success doesn't come overnight. And sometimes progress is very marginal. And I've witnessed that in my own business. My own consultancy, since I've been running since 2018. Likewise, with this podcast when you're 19, like it takes persistence and time and reflection of how far you've come. And just remembering that, you know, it's not going to be an overnight success.

Unknown: 1:04:13

I love that you brought up reflection, though, again, it's been a bit of a theme that has gone through our conversation today, this creation of space, because I think that persistence, again, doesn't mean just push, push, push. It's about being able to take the time to see where are we right now? What is the bit the next right step? And how do we navigate any challenges that we are facing and that might actually be personal challenges as well as business challenges that you need to take stock of take a moment, but keep moving forward? And one step at a time. It doesn't always have to be fast. There's a few resilience tips that I thought it might be good to share here as well. So, the first thing I really like to do when we talk about resilience is actually to look back and when I work with founders to actually get them to plot this graph of their highs and their lows. And it's such an amazing exercise, because it not only makes them look back and go, I got through all of the hard things, some of the things that are the worst things I ever thought could have ever happened to me, I got through them, not only did I get through them, I went I went on an uphill trajectory after those things happened. And so even just looking back can really help you to just realise that you're resilient. And that helps you when new situations come up, to understand how to navigate them better and to have that confidence and that belief that you can get through them. And then I think my other favourite tip is something we've talked about already today quite a lot, which is you have to take care of yourself in order to be resilient, businesses take a long time to build. So you've got to get out of your head that this is going to be six months, and then everything's going to fall into place. And it's going to be easy. And you can take a holiday every other week. And you're going to have made those millions already. That's not how it works. And so you have to be able to take care of yourself as you're going along, and not just wait until you get to that next milestone. Because if you're already in that mindset, I know for sure that when you get to that next milestone, you're not satisfied with it anyway, and you're already looking to the next one, and you're pushing towards that next one, and you're not going to take the time and you're not going to take space. So you need to build that in. Now, if if that's something that's a challenge to you. And then the final thing is about celebrating those milestones, and really recognising that progress that you're making. I think those those three things together can really help you to continue to be resilient and to continue to have that perspective you need in order to make good decisions for the business. Do you got any other tips or thoughts on that?

Ollie Collard: 1:07:01

I mean, there's some free great tips though Becky and I do a similar exercise in relation to the first one is actually plotting out the highs and lows of of your life by doing is rather than just the business but saying, you know, what are the high points? What are the low points? How does that actually inform the business often, after doing this exercise entrepreneurs are very clear on their origin story, because what they've realised is that something that happened 10 years ago, which was a massive low in their life, is actually one of the fundamental reasons why they may be running the business now. And it's just that reinforcement, and that, that cements things and makes it so much stronger in their mind, and gives them that extra passion to get through those those hard days, which you definitely will encounter. And what I would say is that everyone is stronger than they think they are. And you just need that time to reflect on that, to be able to know that. And sometimes it does take working with somebody else to be able to see that because sometimes you're just in your own head as an entrepreneur. And I think you do need to take that step back and speak to our people about your journey and how far you've come. And like you said, celebrate those wins along the way when they come. I've

Unknown: 1:08:14

seen that exercise you used really beautifully as a group exercise as well. I've done it as a group exercise. And it brings teams together really nicely because it starts to share vulnerabilities. And it starts to it starts to identify shared values. And it's just a really lovely exercise. So yeah, talking about kind of coming together with people but coming together with people and having that degree of vulnerability so that you can support one another along the way.

Ollie Collard: 1:08:42

I mean, if you've got like psychological Safe Space amongst the team, that's where obviously teams start winning in building that trust and that belief in one another.

Unknown: 1:08:52

Yeah. 100%. Wow, we have covered a lot today. I feel like we need to go and book another yacht experience now. And of course you can go and book yacht experiences. Do you check them out on the on the website that Dominic shared with us? Let's go back to last week them and discuss what you've been saying in response to Ashley's question for more happy. She asked what percentage of people are thinking of leaving their job right now? Really

Ollie Collard: 1:09:23

interesting question. It ties into what we've been talking about today in terms of leadership as well. So she gave four options. So is it 10% of the workforce? 20% 30% or 40%? So interestingly, nobody said it was 10%. Yeah. Which is pretty obvious. I think everybody, everyone has some level of dissatisfaction in their job and they probably know people that are probably thinking about leaving right now. The highest answer was 20%. With 45% of you thinking about option, followed by option free a 30%. and 36% of you thought that option, leaving only 18% of people to say that it's 40% of people?

Unknown: 1:10:11

And how many actually is it? According

Ollie Collard: 1:10:14

to Ashley, it's 40%. And that's an inkling that I heard as well, when she phrased the question. Absolutely.

Unknown: 1:10:22

And if you look at the data, when we look at engagement data, or disengagement data, it's even higher than that. It's amazing how many people are disengaged with their work, who are stressed every day. And so I think it's something like only 23% of people are fully engaged in their work. So there's definitely things that need to be done. And I think like you said, leadership really plays an important role in this. And so as we're building our businesses thinking about how we do that engagement piece is so important. So that was Ashley's question. But of course, Dominique has a question for you to answer as well. So let's listen to Dominic's question. So my question for your audience and your listeners is what do you think, is the most popular experience that the public have booked in 2023? Cave Art, virtual reality? Drone light shows, foraging, pottery, unicorn Trail, which will particularly mean something for people here in Bristol, and yoga. So make sure you head over to our socials and let us know which experience you think people have booked the most on. Yup. Ali, tell us who is going to be our next guest.

Ollie Collard: 1:11:37

We've got a really interesting founder called Andy, and He is founder of a business called seriously low carb. And they're focused on making groundbreaking low carb, high protein products that really deliver on taste and nutrition because a lot of them can be very bland in the marketplace.

Unknown: 1:11:55

I'm definitely interested to hear more from our next guest. Thank you for listening. If you like what you've heard, please leave us a review on Apple podcasts. Thanks. Thank you for listening to find it in grounded with Ollie collard and Dr. Becky sage. Don't forget to press that follow button to help us to grow the show.