Hexa Finance: Breaking Stereotypes & Reimagining Finance for Startups

The incredible journey of Hexa Finance is not just a tale of success; it's a true story of how being bold and true to yourself can pay dividends.  

From a simple idea in 2016 to launching amidst the global lockdown, co-founders Ben Davies and Stu Mason have navigated it all.

They dive deep into their journey, sharing the sacrifices made, the critical role of timing, and the essence of trust and understanding in their partnership.

Key takeaways

- Back yourself and go for it, as you've started something for a reason and should have complete confidence in your vision.

- The Power of Teamwork: Ben and Stu stress the significance of a team that complements your skills and fosters mutual support. 

- The Art of Saying 'No': Learn the value of simplicity in complexity. Embracing your niche, the bravery in critical decisions, and the wisdom in choosing your battles. 

- Making Finance Relatable: Steering away from traditional corporate norms, Hexa Finance champions an open & comfortable environment, demystifying finance and making it accessible to all. 

Have questions about this episode? Ask our hosts, chat now via our website

Transcript

Ollie Collard: 0:00

One

Unknown: 0:09

layer on the fact that I just wouldn't be afraid to say no back yourself. You know you've done something for a reason, completely back yourself, and go and have it. You're listening to find it and grounded with Ollie collard and Dr. Becky sage. The podcast brings you the honest realities of startup life. If you're a founder or aspiring entrepreneur, this is for you. We know running a business can be lonely and tough at times, and we want to help you get ahead with simple tips and sound advice. Every fortnight we hear inspiring stories from an early stage business owner, who's only a couple of steps ahead of you, talking about what they've learned. And as your hosts, we share our insights and experiences as founders. So you can apply this to your own business. Hello, and welcome to another episode of founded and grounded, I'm Dr. Becky sage. And as always, I'm here with Ollie collard Ali. Today's episode is a little bit different because we have two special guests. And there's been a bit of a change of plan as well. So do you want to let the listeners know what's going on today?

Ollie Collard: 1:27

So if you've listened to the episode last week, I mentioned that we were going to have Andy Welsh, who is the founder of seriously low carb coming on the show, and emergency business trip over to the US and a product launch meant that he had to postpone the interview, which means we are going to be featuring this week our wonderful sponsors hex of finance, I sat down with Ben and Stu, who are co founders of hexa. And this episode is quite special for a number of reasons actually, firstly, that Stu, one of the co founders is a family friend. So my mom's best friend, they went to school together. And I basically grew up with Joe's two daughters, Ellie and Rachel. And Stu is partner to Ellie. And yeah, it's really good to feature family friends on the podcast and dive into their business as well. And secondly, it's important for a second reason, because hexa are actually sponsoring the entire season five or founded and grounded. So we really want to give them a massive shout out a for believing in our vision, but also supporting our mission in really bringing inspiration and reality to early stage founders. So a massive thank you to hexa. And for those that don't know, hexar essentially support early stage and growing businesses to access finance in order to grow their own businesses. Absolutely.

Unknown: 3:00

I think I love that the starting point for this was that you were friends with the team because I think it's a big theme that comes through this episode, this idea of like, is business personal? And how do our personal relationships play into how our business opportunities come about? So I'm really excited to dive into that a little bit further now. And today's story starts with two ex colleagues, friends, starting a business in lockdown. Shall we see how it turned out?

Ollie Collard: 3:35

Burns Do Good afternoon. How are you both keeping it how you doing? Yeah, very well, thank you. I'm really buzzing to have you guys on the podcast as guests, but also on board as co sponsors have founded and grounded as well. So really appreciate your support with the podcast and belief in our vision as

Unknown: 3:52

well. Likewise, we're super excited to get involved in and support you. Amazing. Well, thank

Ollie Collard: 3:57

you for that. First of all, I wanted to sort of rewind back in time Hexer was started during the height of the pandemic. So I want you guys to take us back to that period. What were your individual situations? And why did you decide it was the right time to launch a business during this period of uncertainty?

Unknown: 4:19

So for me personally, I've got four daughters. We can talk about the execute later but but I've got four daughters and a family to provide for. I was working for a big finance company. And I had the best job I probably could at my level until my till the director obviously retired and then I took over from Israel, because that's kind of where I was at. I was like, right It can't get any better than this. And the reality was it wasn't enough. It wasn't. It was enough but it wasn't enough for me personally, I wanted to provide for my family. Give them a better life. My parents gave me a very good life. And to beat that it's very hard. So I thought, You know what, I'm gonna go for this. And I've always wanted to do it, and I have done it before. And, but I knew it wouldn't work with just me on my own, I had a vision of my world and what, what I want hexa to look like, but I knew that I needed somebody to come alongside with me. Yeah, so that leads that leads on quite nicely. And Steve and I had worked together for a number of years before. So, you know, we'd work that we'd worked at GE Capital together in Bristol, you know, we build a good team there. And, you know, we were made redundant because the GE Capital pulled out of the finance market. So that was back in 2016. We both spoke at length then about whether we, you know, set up our own business together, we actually thought about doing it then. But you know, with young kids, it probably probably wasn't the right time. And we had a great opportunity then to go on to work for another lender. And we were there for three years working for an Australian business. So that was great fun. And then you know, the market has changed, you know, lenders, appetite changes. And an opportunity came up, you know, either sort of six months left to my, my job working for Macquarie Bank, students obviously working, you know, working in Bristol as well for, for another lender, like you mentioned just now. And, you know, we spoke about, you know, after that six months, do I go and get another corporate job or another another job working for a lender? Or do we actually do what we wanted to do, you know, back in 2016. So, I think the stars aligned, you know, we've always had a great working relationship. And you know, that period of stew thinking, you know, what I could do if I, if I set up my own business, me, then obviously leaving a business, it was perfect. So we had a good period of time where we, we started to put the plans together for hexa. And yeah, it's been, it's been great. So far, so

Ollie Collard: 6:58

amazing. And just going back to that period, then so you talked about 2016, kind of having these discussions about do we don't we? And then obviously, Fast forward four years later, and you mentioned, obviously, your personal circumstances were different in terms of your families were respectively a bit older, the market had changed. But was there something else? Was there something that a mindset shift that happened in those four years? No,

Unknown: 7:20

I think it just was, it was kind of like on speed, wasn't it because of COVID. And because of experience, and even now, customer service, in general, it's a lot weaker than what it was pre COVID, in my personal opinion, and people still blame COVID, or whatever it may be for that. So so what happened was, we had all of the normal pieces that Ben's already touched on. So you talk about fundage change in appetite, you talk about people leaving and coming and going and whatever it may be. And then you add in COVID, and you're just like, there is so many people in this in this country, or so many businesses and or business owners or future business owners that need assistance, that just are not being catered for. And it was and that was just fueled with COVID really wasn't there and added it on speed. And we were just like, we want to set up a service business that just so happens to be in finance, because that's all we've ever known. And we're all we need to do is provide a very good service to all of our customers and plug that gap in which we can see in the market. Yeah, I think we know, you know, we've worked at, you know, a number of different lenders together. And, you know, we've we've taken experience, you know, from working with those, those lenders, you know, we've had a pretty loyal customer base throughout our career. We'll touch on it later. But you know, we do a lot of work with equipment suppliers to offer finance to their customers, we've got a very broad network of, of technology suppliers that we work with, and help them finance stuff for their customers. So if you think of a, you know, a lender pulls out the market, and they're reliant on them, then they have to go and find a new lender, but you know, with, you know, Stu, and I come and sit in a pack, so we, you know, we're working with a panel of lenders in that space. So it's, you know, we give that consistency to them going forward. So, you know, there's, there's loads of things that have aligned, it's, you know, our experience of working with different places, you know, it's our ambition to then, you know, grow a business that makes finance, you know, relatable and accessible. And, you know, those were the things that really started us out on, you know, back in back in 2020. Right, the middle of pandemic, I think it's fair to say in 2016, as well, the experience we fought we've already didn't we we genuinely did, and we met investors and and we had investment opportunities and all sorts to set up hexar back then, with some very, very well known great people, didn't we in the industry, but I'm not sure it would have quite worked then if I'm being honest with you, because those four years we went to Macquarie, which is big, big investment bank, and it was really fun and exciting. But what they taught us was just new traits that we didn't have, and we didn't have working for, for German funders, or, or French or American, which we put previously did. And I think the Aussie spark on the top of the coal was was the culture helps. You know, you're, you're learning about different finance products, different ways of approaching it. And then also, you're learning the skills about growing a division within a within a lender, you know, it's like having a mini business within a business, isn't it? You know, we also have the pressures of, you know, young children, and, you know, back in 2016, and, you know, when you used to earn a certain amount of money, you know, covering your overheads, that's great to take a leap of faith then with your, with your children is obviously a challenge thing that every entrepreneur that listen to this will, you know, will, will, will attest to, and it is just timing, you know, and I, I think it's been a lot easier for me doing it was to, you know, because we've had, you know, we've finished over, we've had each other to bounce ideas off, you know, we we've made that decision to together, but often people do it alone, and it is difficult. So get the stars to have to align. And some people are entrepreneurial in nature, some people are learned entrepreneurs with a, you know, a moment in time happens or situation happens, and they go out on their own and do something and then create a fantastic business. So I think everything's different. But for us, you know, it aligned in, you know, during COVID 2020. We both had a passion for, like Steve said, the service delivery and, you know, making that funding landscape more secure for our customers, and then making the products relatable. And then it was just a case of having the confidence to go and do it. We had to learn very quickly. And don't downplay your side of the business as well, which was different to mine. Ben's Ben's Welsh are very patriotic. And Ben Ben's Ben's business bent side of the business is quite simple. I want to support local Welsh businesses full stop. And that's what that's what the, that's what the business is, on the on the direct side we deal with, with so much such a wide variety of businesses across Wales, in many different industries that we've helped support. And our job as a business and business owners is to bring other parts together to ensure that we can can help fund or just help their business. And, and that's what we've been on a big, we've been trying, we've been pushing really hard, actually, for last couple of months. So for me, that's why this has taken so long to happen. Because we've been setting up new businesses and new new divisions and joint ventures and all sorts to build with you. But it's purely so that we've got more tools available for all of our customers.

Ollie Collard: 12:43

So you guys reflecting on that periods, and the stars aligning and the vision coming to life? How did you actually go from that idea to making it into a commercial business?

Unknown: 12:55

Yeah, I mean, I think so I've got quite an interesting story. I'm still still allowed to it a bit. But you know, it was it was New Year's Eve 2019 20. So can't remember if that was locked down or not. It's a long time ago, isn't it? But I see what WhatsApp have you. You know, Steve sent me some ideas for a new business. He knew that my time at Macquarie was coming to a natural end. And, you know, I, it really resonated it was it was it was all the sort of stuff that we spoke about back in 2016. Like we said, but it's now I had a, you know, a definite end date on when I was finishing employment. So is then I, you know, took real interest into it. And then I guess from there, it's the, you know, the weeks and months that followed when we started putting all the plans together and come up with a name Hexer. And I'm still making talk you through the meaning effects a bit later. But yeah, it was it was it was that initial message from Stu really? Yeah, I'll jump in on that as well. Because it was it was quite funny, actually. Because I know, I've touched on it before, but I just knew that for this business to be successful. And it's well we've because of we've worked together and we don't understand why nobody does, do they, but it just worked, what better I've got, and we can't put our finger on it. But it just works. And we know that everybody that we've worked for knows that now we've got our own business. Everybody knows that and and it's great. And it works and I and I just thought because because I know Ben so well, I can't just go to Ben Hey, mate, you've got a cracking job and career at Macquarie. With two young kids, how would you fancy jacking around in it's only three months now is setting up a finance company from scratch. Knowing Ben's personality I know I know what the course. Yeah, you're more cautious probably thinking about you know, after the after McCoy naturally finished is looking at looking at other other stable careers really, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that by the way. It takes someone that you know, that doesn't know you so well to you know to say right you know what about this and then I guess the more we spoke about it, you know the the ideas start flowing and and they and you start Thinking about the different the different things we do. So the suppliers that we support the direct customers we support and then you're looking at that sort of stuff, then this starts getting quite excited. And that's exactly what we just built out over a period. So it started with a WhatsApp message with a load of pictures, handwritten. This is a business plan Hey, can you just do me a little favour we've known each other for years just make this look pre add the Ben Davis touch to it. And so I can go and seek investment and and that was just the test that really for Ben any any any any embraced it fully lucky, wasn't late on Newsies, enough to try and look at it as writing it fell hook line and sinker. And, and it was great. Because after a couple of days, Ben went through it and in everything that Ben does he take seriously. And and he went through it all. And he started asking me questions, oh, if you've thought about this, or if you've thought about that, or what about this, or they're more. And then that's how we then just slowly by the end of the week, we've we've ordered a log cabin as well for the garden. So like, when it started to move a bit quickly from there, and it was, it was because it locked down. You know, obviously, we couldn't get office space. It was like, well, we're gonna have to work somewhere. So, you know, the southern log cabin in my garden to start with. Ben always wanted a pub in his backyard. And let's just pray. Maybe it'll be sure. Exactly. But I guess the good thing is we we we had to order that before we set the business up, because it was such a delay on it, because everyone was ordering home offices, and the Academy wouldn't run it for the difficult one. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I guess problem. Somehow snap, but so sorry, summer house. But yeah, we for those weeks, then just turn into, you know, regular conversations about, you know, starting put putting some, you know, putting those business plans together looking at, you know, the types of customers we want to service. You know, we had to get some investment as well in that in our business, to give us that comfort to go to the next level. And, you know, that's, that's, that's a decision that we, you know, we were delighted that we took, and it's been fantastic for us. So I'm actually thinking about what lucky there was COVID, because we're working from home. So we're both we're external sales managers, leaders, operational, whatever it may be. So historically, before COVID, I'd been out and about five days a week, finishing it, starting early, finishing late. But actually, when you talk about stars aligning earlier, you think about that, and the planning side of it. Because we were working from home, from the funders, we could just do our nine to five, because we weren't out and about seeing anybody, food for the kids bath time, bedtime, bang, every single night, eight o'clock on the street, and the call me and Ben from eight until 1112 o'clock, whoever it may be. But the reality is, we wouldn't have been doing that because we'd felt guilty as apparently, as well, you wouldn't take in a lot with it to, you know, to manage. But

Ollie Collard: 17:57

one of your values is Simplicity is key, which I absolutely love. And I think it's one of the key pillars for business success.

Unknown: 18:06

When we started, we could have got involved in every type of finance. But we didn't on day one, you know, we focused on what we know, which was asset based lending. And that was really key because there was lots of government funding out there, banks, bank loans, and all sorts of things. And it was confused and at the time, but we stuck to our business plan. And that helped us get through the early days. So we were correct, providing the right the right product that we understood to the market first time. But over time, you do get asked for different types of funding. So, you know, on the business finance side to do, there's never there's a load, there's a load of different products and services available. So you've got invoice financing, you've got traditional term loans, there's property lending, there's asset, finance, and there's there's plenty more, then you go beyond that. And you can start looking at, you know, things like? Well, there's obviously grants, there's, there's corporate finance, debt advisor,

Ollie Collard: 19:03

advisory r&d tax credit.

Unknown: 19:07

And I think it's, there might be a business purpose to why they need funding. But the customer or the you know, or the startup or the growing business might just know that they want finance for a purpose. It's then trying to understand what product fits with that. It's easy, if you're buying a car, or you're buying a piece of equipment, you typically use asset finance. But then if you're you're looking at another need for your business, like you you're invested in staff or marketing or tech or whatever, you might need funding but like a short term working capital loan might not be right. So that's been you know, something that's you and I and the rest of the extra team. As we've grown, we've, you know, we've made a, you know, a conscious effort to find the right funding partners that gives us that breadth of products. Yeah, right. And we we didn't and we didn't have all of it, but we were very good at what we've done. So that's what we focused on and At what we've learned from an early stage and how we've evolved as a business is, because naturally you come across these opportunities, and we do want to help rather than us go, Yeah, let's try and do it. And quite frankly, do a crap job, and which tarnishes the hex reputation. We simply have been passing him over to people to do now. But over time, as a business, we've evolved. And we can now look at certain products, that plenty of which Ben just touched on there, that now we can bring experts into our business and say, This is what you're doing. And that is solely what you're doing, because you're the expert in that. And we've got a proven business plan, because that's what we've done. And it's worked. And that's now what we're doing. There's a group, so hexa finances is an asset, finance business. But we are now PEXA group, which is a group, and there are going to be other entities within that group, which specialise in corporate finance, invoice finance, cash flow, finance, loans, whatever it may be, we've realised quite quickly in our journey, that we just want to help every single business as much as we possibly can. And what that means is, let's say you've got a scale of one to 10, for argument's sake, we may only as hexar, finance, we probably only had five, five of those tools available. So there was five missing what we've done and developed over the previous, just adding things, yeah, slowly adding stuff in, but over the last six to 12 months, we've really started to embrace that and add that and, and now we've got a full suite of products. And most importantly, when when, when the customer comes to us, regardless of what sector they operate in, whether they're pre startup, you know, the revenue generating all their established or growing, you know, the, the experience they get from working with hexar is the same every time correctly, they come to us with a requirement, and we go back to them, or one of the one of our team goes back to them in the same manner every time. These are the products that we think are right for you right now. Give them a range of options, and then the customer then determines what's best for them. And different products fit better for different industries, we won't go into it on the podcast today. But you know, there's different products that are right for different businesses, the start, you know, a lot of startups as you know, they, you know, they, they invest their own their own money into the business. And that's great, because you can see that they really believe in their idea. And that then helps us them with, you know, with lead with lenders when they are looking for funding, but it's like the simplicity bit is when they come to AXA, they know that they're going to get looked after they're going to get supported. And they're going to be given options that are going to be most suited to them at that time.

Ollie Collard: 22:50

I love that. And we talked about it before, but just wanted to touch on it again, because I know the word hexa is six in Greek numerals. So can you tell me a bit more about what the name is behind the business? Yeah, of

Unknown: 23:03

course we can. So um, so between Ben and I, we've got six children. So I've got four daughters. Mia is a Florence and Olivia. Ben's got a son and a daughter. Yes, Uncle Xander and a daughter called Kelly. Ben's wife's Greek. So we wanted to look at something with a Greek name. What was some of the names if occur, we've had all sorts. Honestly, the six cubes. It just is brilliant. Again, it just was perfect. And we looked at it and we were like six cubes. And obviously, we're developing the group now. So we've got heads of finance, which pink? And then all the other is going to be we can have can't have any more than six businesses. Can we? No, we can't

Ollie Collard: 23:42

No, definitely. Probably enough. But definitely not have any more children.

Unknown: 23:46

Yeah. Crikey, children, the brand. And we'd like we'd like the fact that it's pretty fresh. The colours are obviously great. But no, it means a lot to Stu and I and actually the team really got behind it. They you know, they really liked the brand. And they really like what it stands for. And that you know, just embodies and like you said, you picked out one of the core values earlier. So Simplicity is key. So we've got six core values. It's quite good, actually. Because we haven't got to think of more than six things at one time. We just struggled, struggled when we went from six to seven employees. And we were kind of cranky.

Ollie Collard: 24:19

Yeah. So it's difficult. Excellent. And I mean, business is personal at the end of the day, and people do buy into that personal story and you know why you guys started and the meaning behind it as well. And I just wanted to ask as well because you kind of touched upon it then about your kind of branding being a bit funky and quirky, maybe a bit different. I mean, as an outsider, the world of finance sometimes can be seen to be a bit old school, you know, full of suits. Yeah, often old, pale and stale. Now you guys sat here in hoodies doing something a bit differently. So how you kind of differentiating your business from the market. I

Unknown: 24:56

know I like being comfortable in work, you know, a lot All people do as well, you know, and giving people the choice to, you know, to come in, in in a relaxed, you know, in relaxed dress is great. We feel like it gets the best out of our team. It's not for everybody, but we feel like it gets the best out of each other and the team. You know, if you're comfortable in work, then you know, you typically, performance is good. And it's just yeah, it's just our, you know, our way of doing it. I think it's more relatable you. And I don't mean, I don't think there is a right or wrong way. By the way. It's just my opinion. But when you when you think about finance that you mentioned that you think you think dark suit, white shirt, yeah, dark tie, briefcase, and, and you think to yourself, if you're a business owner, and you're thinking, right, I've got a finance guy coming in, that's what you're expecting. And you're kind of thinking, Oh, I can't quite, I might not be able to be myself in this and that. And I'd like to think that that when we turn up a lot of the work, we do a lot in the technology space, you see people in, in tech walking around in, in suits, you just don't know, we just resonates from loads of different sectors, you could be going to a restaurant meeting someone in their kitchen, or you could be going into a car garage, or sort of an engineering business. And, you know, it's, you know, it's just like Steve said, it's a relatable thing. But it's, it's also, I guess, in COVID, no one wore suits, because they were on teams and zoom all the time. So you might have might have had suits on but it's top half. So you said but yeah, it's just goes with AXA brand. And it's just you know, we're really really comfortable that word about our sponsors. The security threat to UK tech startups is growing. Protecting your innovation is crucial to your business success. Secure innovation is here to help and it only takes a few simple steps to get started. Don't leave it too late. Visit npsa.gov.uk forward slash innovation. To find out more, and download the quickstart guide for free today. Are you looking to access finance for your business but unsure where to go and who to trust? Introducing hexar finance, providing growth funding to startups and scale ups throughout the UK, Ben and stews started exa finance with a clear mission to make finance more accessible to business owners like you. Launched in 2020. They know firsthand the growing pains you're facing their fast growth business is the proud winner of the startup of the Year Award, and has recently been recognised for its economic contribution. So if you need funding now, or it's on your horizon, the experienced team at hexar finance are here to help to access your free consultation, simply go to hexar finance.co.uk. Forward slash contact. What strikes me from listening to Ben and stew is that here we have two founders who've really embraced the comfort that comes with showing up as themselves. They talk about kind of wearing their hoodies and being relatable, but you more than that you hear it in the way that they talk to one another the way they're talking to you ollie as well. And so there's this comfort, this familiarity in their relationship. And actually, Stu said during the interview, it just works, what Ben and I have got, this is not something that is necessarily that easy to find. And so I'm really excited to kind of look a little bit further because I think that Ben and Stuart actually did a lot of good practice, whether they realised they were doing it or not, I think they did, actually because they're quite diligent about how they make decisions. But they went through quite a lot of good practice in order to be in a position where they have formed a good co founding team. And so can you talk a little bit more about that what, what is in this relationship that kind of makes them so good at being comfortable with one another? For

Ollie Collard: 29:18

me, it boils down to two simple facts really, which are kind of essential to co founding relationships. And that is a trust and be understanding. They just they just implicitly trust one another. They know how each other operate. I mean, as you as you said, Becky from the interview, you can just tell the energy between them and how well they kind of gel together. And also I think another important factor is that they're on a similar life trajectory. So they're obviously growing and raising young families at the same time. I think often when co founders are at different stages in their life and perhaps not well aligned, then it can have the potential Sure to cause conflict, but essentially they can empathise with one another. They know each other's priorities inside out. And I really think that really helps a relay relationship. And I think you can tell from the conversations you said, Becky, it definitely flows very naturally. I mean, we went out for dinner afterwards. And we were having the same conversations, as we were speaking on the podcast as when we were having dinner. And often I feel, sometimes people put on a different mask, but they're just being their true selves. And that obviously comes across in the podcast. What

Unknown: 30:33

I love is when you hear them talking, it's not like they're both thinking the exact same thing. It's not like they're both the same person, right? They have a different perspective, they have a different viewpoint. And they, they've made the space to get to know one another's perspectives and viewpoints, and like you said, deeply understand each other's priorities. And I think that part of what really came through for me was this notion that they, they were talking about this back in 2016. And then it wasn't until 2020, that it really started. And again, there was this inherent understanding that when Stu sent that text to Ben, but even though he was going to be reticent about it, and that he was going to find it risky, that it was going to probably be the right time to make that decision. And I guess, like there was probably no risk there, because they knew each other well enough that if nothing came of it, then nothing came of it. And that would have been fine to do you think there's something about how they started this has helped continue that success be ongoing. I

Ollie Collard: 31:35

think the fact they were mulling over this business for four years has actually really helped because A, they've done it at the right time. And I think timing is such an underrated factor in determining a business success. So I think the timing is good. I think the fact that they haven't rushed into it is also very good. And also I think the fact that they know each other implicitly, so well puts them at a massive advantage. And I think, you know, if it hadn't worked out, then they would have probably just gone back into their, their corporate well paid jobs. And you know that they would have just taken it as a learning and not as a failure. So I think, yeah, the timing has been really key to getting this business off the ground. Yeah.

Unknown: 32:16

And even though they already knew each other really well, they still went through the step of trying things out together. Of course, they'd worked together before. And I always think this is such an important tip, if you're going to have a co founder, figure out how you can work with them on an actual project before you jump into something. Because everything changes once you really start working with somebody, even if you think you know them quite well. And so they'd obviously work together. They'd been colleagues before these, they've observed how one another had worked. But they still and Stu said he started by kind of giving the deck and and saying can you make this look pretty. And so there was still this kind of starting point of, let's just kind of do a little project and see what happens there and see where we can go from there. So I do think there's this real importance of making sure you have a in depth understanding of how you're actually going to work together as people.

Ollie Collard: 33:11

I really like your idea that back here, like trialling something, doing a pilot project, whatever it is getting to know your co founder, even if you think you know them, you probably don't, until you actually get into the depths of it, as you say. So I think that's a really good bit of advice. And I think also that, you know, if you're working together, and you're both on a PA ye salary, then it's going to be different to when you've got to put, you know, bread on the table and actually make this make income and revenue from this business. So I think it's so different facets of the business. And I think as you say, they knew each other. But until they actually got into the nitty gritty of it, they probably learned a lot more about each other as the startup grew.

Unknown: 33:56

Yeah, the stakes are so much higher, and they when it's your own thing. So I want to move on to another learning I took from this. And this is the idea that simplicity is so important, especially in the early days of a startup and growing starting your own business. And the way that Ben and Stu talked about this was they said a lot focus on what you know, and and it was that focus early on that got them off the ground. They said you don't want to do a crap job that that then ruins the reputation before you've even really started. So I really liked that they had this focus on asset based lending. And over time, they've realised well actually in order to really fulfil our mission, which is to give businesses the best support, we do need to diversify that. But they didn't do all of that straight away. And so I really think that this Simplicity is key is a mantra that we should all have as entre. printers. What do you think you took from that? Well,

Ollie Collard: 35:03

on a similar note back, I think they didn't run before they were walking, they knew what stage they were at. And like you say, reputation is everything. And if you damage it, it's very hard to repair it. So actually, they wanted to make sure they were giving the most value in those early days. And what I really love about the early days of hex, or is that they had this clarity, which often founders aren't very clear on in those early days, they ultimately knew who they were serving, what they were offering, and fundamentally what their niche was. And I often find startups in those early days often try and pivot left, right and centre to try and find that product market fit. But what these guys said is, look, no, let's play to our strengths that say no to opportunities, which aren't based around asset based lending. And that's played to our strengths. And I think that's ultimately how they've grown the business. And now they're at a stage where they're bringing in experienced people growing a range of products that they can offer to their growing customer base. And again, the time was right to grow the business at this stage rather than too early on.

Unknown: 36:15

And I've definitely experienced that really struggling with how to find that focus, I think it can be really difficult. And I think the issue is, as we were both talking about, it's the kind of running before you can walk, or it's the trying to serve like this whole suite of customers and give them absolutely everything they want and perhaps target the entire market when you can actually look at a beachhead market, or you can look at that early product and do that really, really well. Because if you don't, you're not going to get off the ground. Do you? What do you think sits behind that challenge to be able to focus?

Ollie Collard: 36:54

I think it comes back to the clarity that they had, and not being afraid to say no, I think as you say, in the early days, you're essentially trying to capture a large part of the market. And the classic phrase, if you try and sell to everyone, you sell to no one sort of rings true. So I think in the early days, in order to get focus, go go very niche on your audience, I would say. And in your marketing actually put, this is for x y Zed if you are not x y Zed, so call it out, say we're not looking for x y Zed. And actually what you want your marketing to do is actually repel people to make sure that you're attracting the right people. And it's bloody scary to try and do that in those early days. And it takes balls. But I think if you're doing that, then you're gonna develop something quite exciting.

Unknown: 37:49

That fear is huge, isn't it, but you are so much better off like not wasting time further down the line further through that sales pipeline, or maybe you've even on boarded people who are not the right fit, and you're trying to serve too many groups of people, and you haven't got the resource to do it. It's Yes, such an important thing. And I think that Ben and Stu because they had a commercial background already. That's where the clarity came from, I think they didn't, it was something that was almost obvious to them is what it seemed to me listening to this and so that that clarity, they had just came from years of being in a commercial environment and understanding how to attract customers and how to hold on to those customers and deliver to those customers. And yet, I am so intrigued by these kind of multiple facets that both Ben and Stu you have in terms of being that kind of very comfortable, very chilled, like you said, they don't have to wear the mask completely not what we think about when we think about those who are doing commercial work in the finance sector. I think that they've talked about this as well. And so but yet they still have those skills, they still have that discipline, business focus that is needed in order to get the business off the ground, develop the strategy, serve their customers, and ultimately grow their team. So should we dig a bit deeper into how they're able to work so effectively together as co founders and see how they have overcome challenges together. It's changed since the start. I mean, if you think is, you know, Stu and I on our own working in a log cabin in my garden, we were you know, waiting for, for customers to call us to ask us about both finance and we're doing a bit of everything. But then, you know, quickly then you you hopefully get to a position when you start a business that you can start bringing other people in, and then it's a case of working out skills and dynamics, but you know, like Stuart I've always worked very well together, worked in the same team, you know, a couple of lenders but both got very different skills and some of the skills that we had five years ago that were different, you know, flipped on their head like she was dreadful admin when he when I over them in GE Capital now, far better than I am like, and it's, it's just different. It's different, isn't it things things work differently. But ultimately, Stu and I might, in my opinion, a, you know, responsible for growing the business that direction. And then we brought, you know, some fantastic people, some with industry experience some, you know, fresh apprentices and people that are first industry into industry. And it's about lining them up to do different roles within AXA. But ultimately, Stu and I try to drive the business forward, along with one of the other shareholders. And then you know, empowering the team then to sort of fill in behind and, and grow different aspects of the business. And we have got a wonderful team, and all of those guys are doing such an amazing job on a day to day. But like Ben says, is really it's just freed us up to do what we're best at. It's quite funny when you talk about what people's perceptions of Ben and Stu may be, they're normally quite wrong. Believe it or not, they expect me to be the loud Hardhead sales person. And they expect Ben to be the more nicer, calm, operations, operational, loving man. Now, the reality is, is that people do often get that wrong. And in an in meetings, it's fairly frustrating for us sometimes, isn't it when, when people do get it wrong, but I'm very analytical. So I'm a numbers guy, and I'm a graph guy. And I'm and I'm a little bit like Rain Man, to be honest with you. And I am and it drives Ben mad, it drives everybody in the office, man, doesn't it? But I'm very, I'm very detached, driven. Because numbers speak to me. And I just completely get that. Whereas Ben, isn't it? Yeah. Like, sometimes when you start a business, you'll have someone that's maybe got a finance background, or someone's got an operations background, or a commercial background. Student, I come from a commercial background, with a bit of operations in there. Bit of marketing. So that plays into our strengths, because we're constantly thinking about, you know, growth opportunities, and where we can support businesses. But, you know, we we need expertise around us then to fill in, you know, operationally or from a finance perspective, or absolutely, you know, we outsource quite a lot as well. Yeah. So, you know, we bring we bring other local businesses or national businesses that have got specific skill sets, like, you know, could be marketing or could be, you know, accountancy, bookkeeping, you know, what, HR, HR, so we're, we're lucky that we're commercially focused, which is great. But we're also there's things that I like doing that she doesn't like doing, and vice versa, and it naturally just works. And we just pick up, you know, we pick up different different things at different times. Really? Yeah, yeah, we do. I

Ollie Collard: 42:52

think there seems to be a bit of a kind of telepathic relationship. I mean, Ben went out the door before, and she was like, He's gonna forget the code to the door. And she came out and he resigned is going to wait for him there. Yeah, obviously, you've got a very good understanding of one another, which is pivotal, and obviously, being co founders. And I imagine when there's conflict, potentially at times, that you probably get it resolved quite quickly. So can you tell me about any conflict within the business and how you've overcome that?

Unknown: 43:23

We're going to throw this out there, or I'm gonna throw this out there. It doesn't happen often doesn't. It doesn't happen often. Because we've got the same fate. I think we've got that because we've got the same agenda. Because we are both commercially focused, we want a commercial outcome generally. Sort of covering a little bit of the last question, previous question, so apologies. But remember earlier, when I talked about how we probably have only got four or five products, and we need 10, to be able to cater for everybody, that's no different to our skill sets between us both were pretty good. I feel like we got all 10 covered at a very minimal basis. Some of those will be very high standards, some will be very low. And for the same reason that we've brought people into our business specialists in certain certain finance products, it's the same reason we bring people into our business and skills for different skills. So I think that's, that's vitally important. I think taking a step back as well, you know, like we just because I, you know, I view a situation in hex as life differently to students, it doesn't mean that Steve's viewing it from a better or worse position than me. So, and it's easier said than done, especially as you know, everyone knows that, you know, this business is flat out and there's loads of things being thrown at you all the time, but we're in the shed, yeah, in the early days, and but again, because we know each other so well, when that happens, so let's jump in. When that happens. I just put my laptop away. Didn't say bye, go in the car and said bye to the bench. I on the way out just to wind them up a little bit, and then jumped in the car. And I got about 10 minutes down the road. And he rang me up with a white flag saying, Yeah, but that's, that's the nature. And likewise, I'll blow up way before Ben will blow up. And he knows that. So he'll just wait for me to get to wherever I need to be. Disagreement disagreements and not not being on the same page as it is healthy, of course, is I think the best way to describe it as challenge is challenging people. Yep. So like steel challenge me daily, and I hopefully challenged you daily as well. We like we like it when our staff challenged us with new ideas or new ways of working that that makes hexa packs a better when customers come to us with a, you know, I need funding and I need it tomorrow. It's all about challenging people. And then you get the you do get the best people you take, you take people out of their comfort zone. But then yeah, just you know, communicating, you know, this is really important. And, you know, we know we're in the office or you know, quite a lot together, we're actually in customers together, you know, we speak about hacks or outside of work, you know, it's it is just those communication. And I guess not taking, not taking yourself too seriously, having humility and just get on with it. Defeat

Ollie Collard: 46:18

me when you're on the road, and talking to things when they go wrong. Can you tell us about a time when there's been a failure? And what lesson you learn from that failure?

Unknown: 46:32

I've got, I've got one, which is probably quite, it's quite recent, actually. And I wouldn't say it's a failure, it's just a learning. So you know, we work with a panel of lenders to provide finance products to our customers. Now, when we get used to working with a certain lender typically use the more and more It's just, you know, it's habit isn't it as you get comfortable with what they can offer, you get comfortable with their service and the deliverables to your customers. So, you know, there's times, you know, right at the start of the business, and more recently, where you know, we have put a lot of business to a certain lender for a certain product. Now, if that business exits the market, you know, you then start thinking, Oh, actually, we now need to then, you know, change, change our approach a bit. So that's an example of something that's I wouldn't say it's a failure, but it's in the same reason why we set up AXA, was to give that stability, sometimes we can get a bit comfortable with a certain lender. Absolutely. So we've, you know, we've just got to, we've just got to keep making sure that we're putting business to the lenders for the right reasons, not just for comfort, and that again, goes with experience and time and all that sort of stuff. And we have been caught up on that numerous occasions with with certain funders that make your life really easy intentionally. Not intentionally. Isn't central they want to run my business? Of course they do. They're a bank or finance company. And, and it's we've been through so many redundancies, and we've seen businesses exit and we know that traits we know when it's coming. And sometimes it's hanging on a little bit too much, isn't it with some of them? Because you think or they might, it might not happen to these ones. It might happen to these guys. Yeah. And inevitably it does. And it's just just ensuring that when that does happen, that you've got a real sound panel of people behind you that can keep supporting your, your your customers.

Ollie Collard: 48:18

And we've talked before a bit about your corporate background. I want to know about what the biggest differences between working in a big corporate business versus running your own startup.

Unknown: 48:32

Well, I think I've got a good analogy. Being from Southampton, we've got PMO theories that go dry, and they're big old ferries and they take an hour to get across that's a big corporate finance company or not corporate fire that's a big bank that's a big finance company with corporate red tape this and that whatever it may be. And we're more like a couple of lads on a jetski they can not not duck and dive and we can manoeuvre we can move so fast compared to these. So if you can imagine this this massive piano ferry with 1000 people on it then turn in 360 degrees takes forever it's difficult whereas us challenging on a jetski we can we can we can turn really quickly. I've worked at a couple of small independent finance companies as stewards and we've you know, we've worked for some great some great lenders. And is your they are different they got similarities, of course. But yeah, you know, quite often you know, there's can be a lot of layers to work in for for a bank, you typically get some fantastic training and development and all that sort of good stuff. Amazing. Amazing. And I'll actually frozen for that sort of jump in GE Capital we were at ge and ge as an American business was absolutely awesome for both of us. I'm not sure I could have survived in the corporate world when I first entered it. Um because I was always told I couldn't, until I ended up at GE and they embraced my, me being a little different to, to somebody like Ben or Andy or P, or all of our colleagues, we're all different. But where they were amazing was the training and development and the time that they gave us just, and that was awesome, wasn't it? Yeah. And, and then you go on, you know, when you start a business, you start thinking about what, what bits you want to take from places you've worked before. So you know, I like the fact that, you know, when the smaller businesses that they've got the opportunity, and they're able to be nimble, they can, they can move or opportunities are, and they can, you know, they can, you know, go and see a customer, the drop of a hat, whatever that might look like. But then when you're, you know, working for a lender, like the training develops a good example, some of the, some of the benefits you get when you when you're employed by a, you know, by a large corporate a fantastic. So we've tried to incorporate some of that into the stuff that we do with our staffs, we got hex Academy, for example, which is Yeah, which Adrian runs your hex and that's fantastic was given, given our staff, the sort of regular on the job training, as well as stuff about the industry, different products and stuff. So I think you always take a bit from everywhere you've worked. And then you start thinking about and some of the places we've worked before, you know, funders of us today, and very supportive, effective today. So, yeah, it's taken little bits, but as a startup, ultimately, you know, we're, it's fast paced, you know, no, two days are the same. And we're, as we get past that stage with a three years in, we're starting to layer in, you know, processes systems. You know, we're bringing in different staff, in general manager, Operations Manager, credit manager, so it's all those different functions. And we've learned that from working at these places. We're just doing it our way. Yeah, absolutely. Love that.

Ollie Collard: 51:52

And business can be all consuming at times. I'm sure there's times on your journey, when you've just question everything. There's so much coming at you consistently and it's hard to keep your head above water. What's one sacrifice that you've both made? either consciously or subconsciously?

Unknown: 52:13

I sacrificed the bar didn't I? So we could have an office? I've definitely put in about three or four stone since we started a hexa. So um, yeah, I was never exactly slim, Jim anyway, but a weight does go up and down. But that's one thing. But for me, personally, sorry, taking the jokes aside. I feel like I have to say, Ellie, to be fair to any any my partner. We're getting married in 2025. Can't wait for that. But I feel like she's been extremely supportive. But I do feel like, I do feel guilty. Sometimes I've got four daughters. I love our family. And we spend as much time together as possible. And that's the reason why we set up hex or Omoni, wasn't it to have more time with our family, and for them to have a better life than than what, then Ben and I as children, when again, very difficult because we both had good lives? Our parents are fantastic. And that's kind of, I guess that's probably it for me. That time we've we've barely I think when I was when I was employed, I definitely think it was a lot easier just to go, I finished, I can fully focus on on you guys and an ally in particular. And I feel like that's over the past three years. There are times in that not it's not all the time going away, but there are times over that three year period, that, that she hasn't got what she deserved to be honest with you. I mean, for me, it's, it's similar, isn't it? It's like, you know, it's that sort of, you know, you're sacrificing your evenings and your weekends of, you know, like Sue said, you need sort of down tools. Even if you don't, can't always with the business, you can't. Yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, from from my side, like sacrifice, I think it's, for me, it's more like a comfort thing. So like, if I if I look back at and she spoke about it earlier with, like, when we set up AXA, you know, I was naturally more suited to working in a corporate environment and that security comfort blanket. So to sort of go away from that, to set up our own business was a bit of a leap of faith, and I could have done it like stealing the support of like, my family and friends. So I think sacrificing that comfort, that predictability of of income, right at the start was a real challenge. And now, as we're, you know, we've managed to get through three years, a lot of businesses don't. So, you know, we're, we're very fortunate that that's happened. And now we can start thinking about, you know, bringing other people into the business that, you know, we can have a bit of a better work life balance, which is what we promote to everybody in the team. And now we're starting to see some of it but for the first three years was very challenging. So that's a sacrifice. And I think the last six months, I think it's finally clicked for us for all of us and not bends and we are very fortunate to get to where we got to, not every business does. And but we're at the stage now where we We are enjoying it a lot more. And we ask you to enjoy getting back to what it was like the day we started. And the calls, you know, those evening calls, we started to get that enjoyment back the last two, three years has been full on. Yes, yes.

Ollie Collard: 55:13

Guys, can you run me through the different forms of finance and generally the different stages that you might access those? Yeah, of course,

Unknown: 55:21

it's probably easier just to sort of talk about like, you know, a startup business and, you know, some of the finance that they, they might choose to take out or look to obtain, as they grow. So, you know, invariably, entrepreneurs and startups would, you know, put some money into their business themselves potentially through, you know, savings or family and friends, perhaps, or maybe there's grants that are associated to their, to their industry, fantastic. You know, as they then grow, they might look at, do I need equipment to my business, and then they might use asset finance, which is a product that, that we offer AXA, as they grow, they might look at things like, you know, invoice financing, you know, especially if customers are, you know, paying them, you know, on 3060 90 day terms, for example, they, they might want to grow and take out a you know, a working capital term loan, over, you know, 12 months, three years, five years, that sort of stuff. And that might be linked to a specific project, or if they're seasonal, or whatever. And those are typically, you know, the sort of commercial finance products that that we see, you know, regularly. But there's also sorry, I'll jump in as you as you sort of evolve, and I think touch on some of the stuff earlier about, sort of like the product suite, and where hexa, finance fits. Traditionally, everything that Ben's just mentioned, there is what we do. We've started up a hexar, corporate finance business recently, we've got a joint venture with some guys up in up in Preston. And ultimately, what we're trying to do is have more tools. So so Ben's talked about startups, if you're looking at a lifestyle fragment, lifecycle story of a business, you think of Ben's comfort of startup and, and how they've grown to, let's say, they're at year five, they they may be looking at exits, they may be looking at venture, sort of fundraising or debt advisory. And that's where the corporate finance piece falls in. So ultimately, we can go from a brand new start plumber, though, was self employed, he wants to buy a van because he's going to set up a limited company, or he's still self employed, and he wants to buy a van, we can do that for you. We can do a brand spanking new start business that's looking for some a cash flow loan, or they're a restaurant that needs to obviously buy a bloody kitchen, do you need to cook something right, we can then do asset finance, you could be a shop that's taking card payments, that we can now this facilities where you can actually take a loan, cash flow loan, against how much money is coming in through the card payments, etc, you might get to the stage where you want to buy commercial property and do commercial mortgages. But ultimately, they're the products that we do layer in the corporate finance piece from from start to finish, we can deal with absolutely everything. And all of the guys in the business are happy to talk to any customer at any stage and where you are in your in your in your path. Money is of course, one of the major challenges that startups face. So if you're listening and you're feeling challenged by finance, or you really just want to explore some of your options, do make sure that you go and check out hex or finance or check out those options that they just talked about. So something that came up was this notion of the difference between corporate and startup life. And what we often hear and what Ben and stews said was, it's great to you can be really nimble in a startup, you can turn really quickly, you can go see a customer at the drop of a hat. It's really fast paced, and they've spent the last three years kind of being nimble. And now they're layering on those processes and systems that and so they've kind of learned this through working in a corporate, they now understand kind of how do we start to operationalize this further. But a startup can only be nimble if they have resources, and they have that focus that we were just talking about, but in the last section and so whilst your decision making processes can definitely be more nimble in a start up, your ability to maybe move quickly might not always be there. If you don't have those resources. How'd you think that they were able to act really nimbly even when they didn't have that much in terms of resource

Ollie Collard: 59:52

for the first three years they have acted very nimbly, very quickly, that startup mentality of You know, break things and do things at speed, because that's what ultimately has given them that traction in the marketplace. I guess the the phase they're at now is probably slightly different. I think, you know, when you've got sort of sub 1213 staff, you can kind of manage everyone quite effectively. But when you go beyond that, which we'll hear about a bit more in the future section of hexa, is a different stage of the business. So I think what they've done very nicely is actually taking the best elements from corporate life. So we're talking about, you know, the processes, the systems, the training and development. And they've embedded that into their startup as they've grown it as they've gone along. But they've also kept the the added flexibility and being able to react to the marketplace. And they've used that to their advantage in order to best serve their customer base. So I think what they've done really well is actually blended both of those worlds, which are obviously very different and done it at the right time.

Unknown: 1:01:04

Because it is something that many people struggle with is this mindset of being able to shift between the two, I know that I was recently speaking to somebody who works with a lot of startups and running an incubator programme. And they said that they found some data on their programme that said that people that came from a corporate background, actually what had the highest percentage failure rate in startup life. And perhaps some of that is to do with something else that Ben and you were talking about, which is coming from having this stability. In the corporate setting, perhaps you have got more resources, perhaps sometimes as well, you because you've only got to do a narrow part of the business, you haven't maybe developed the skills that are going to help you to do something that involves you having to see the entire business and, and keep that moving. So that's definitely something I think to be aware of that it takes a lot of skill to be able to take those good things from being in a corporate setting, and then adapt that into the startup life. Do you think and having kind of had other conversations with Ben and Stuart as well? Why do you think they've been able to make this transition really effectively?

Ollie Collard: 1:02:19

I think it boils down to probably three things, I think, firstly, that they've got this implicit understanding and trust between one another, which makes them comfortable with decision making, and knowing the business is safe in each other's hands. So I think that's the first thing. Secondly, I think it's their commercial focus. So ultimately, if they're taking on staff and not bringing in extra revenue, then that's going to have a knock on effect on the business. So I think having a focus on the bottom line, keeps them successful. And I think their commercial expertise has been able to show that from from day one, really. And lastly, I think it's about having a flexible mindset, they're very clear that probably their roles at corporates were quite different to what they're doing now. I think they've had to learn a lot on the job of running a business like Steve was talking about paying off for the admin and now actually, is actually quite good at it. So I think there's there's things that you learn along the journey of running a business, I mean, for me, I would say, if you want to push yourself in terms of personal development and growth, going starting your own business is the biggest opportunity for learning and development you can possibly ever have. And imagine. So it's going to be bloody hard work. And I think we need to make that fundamentally clear that, you know, if it was easy, everybody would be doing it. But as I say, the the opportunity and the upside, definitely outweigh the downsides of running your own startup. Love

Unknown: 1:03:58

the one of the upsides isn't that you become a CEO or director or founder, and then you don't have to do admin anymore. It's the other way around in a startup. And of course, they talked some more about other things that they've sacrificed. And it's a theme that comes up a lot with startups is sacrifice, being away from home and sacrifice, the predictability of income, possibly, you're more, even when you are at home, your mind is more on the business, because that just never really switches off. And so perhaps your engagement with your family life, you have to work really hard to make sure that you keep that up. And so they talked about that having been a bit of a struggle over the last few years. But now as they're moving into this new phase, they really are trying to kind of create this worth work life integration, as I call it. So thinking about kind of how being able to have that balance but recognising that we're is a priority and the work itself helps to support the family life and give some flexibility and freedom that you might not have in a corporate setting, but also has these downsides. So you said kind of, if it's easy, everyone would be doing it. And of course, many people don't take these risks. And how do you think that you can move towards creating this balance when you are a startup founder, because of course, you need to to make it sustainable. And

Ollie Collard: 1:05:28

I think it is really hard, particularly if you've come from quite a structured corporate life. Because running your own startup, you have to be a lot more flexible, you know, one day probably isn't going to be the same, you're going to be doing so many different things wearing so many different hats. So you've got to be comfortable with the uncomfortable first and foremost. And I think as well, like you were saying about, you know, they've got this weight of responsibility of both having young children, and they've got to make sure that they're paying the mortgage, paying the bills, and all of the important stuff that comes with having the responsibility of being a parent. But I think they've used that as their superpower. And their driver, like you heard, Ben and Stu both refer to why they're doing what they do. And it's to give their give their children a better life. And I think if you're flipping the mindset of, yes, you've got to, you know, provide, but actually, why are we doing this? Why are we having these crazy days of, you know, testing ourselves and being driven to the extremes, ultimately, it's for a bigger reason than than themselves. Yeah.

Unknown: 1:06:36

And they've even built that into their name so that they can be reminded every day, then when they're at work exactly why they're doing it. So they also talked a little bit about their team and how they've learned from their own experiences, how that's helping them with their team. But I'd love to hear a bit more now about the Hexer finance team and how they're bringing new people on board. So we've got 13 members of staff now, that about the last lucky or unlucky, we're gonna say it's lucky because we we've got some great people in the team. We've got a mixture of, of people in the business that have got finance experience, and we've got some people that are starting their careers for the first time. We've partnered up with, you know, a local college Cardiff and Vale college and South Wales to do an apprenticeship. And we've got two great apprentices are in the business now doing the business administration. But the team is very varied. You know, we've got, like I said, people with loads of experience that have worked for corporates and things like that, so I don't think we're necessarily going to, you know, bring anyone in, in the short term strip. We said that last year, and so that last year was only four of us fall, but we rather start we had, you know, we were lucky that we, we brought a few people in that we've worked with previously. Yeah. So that, you know, that was fantastic. So we worked with them, we understood their skills, and actually really complimentary. And then we then start introducing new people to the business and it's just about finding your feet. And we've we've recently moved offices as well. So we've got a wonderful office space, in Langston in Newport by the Kelty Manor, above a law firm that we work closely with collaborate with quite a lot. So that's a great space for the team. And we have got room to fill that a bit more with maybe five or six more heads. But it's just, it's just doing it the right time. And to be an analytical know, based on business volumes based on the opportunities we're working on when that time is right. And then just back in each other to make that decision about bringing the right people in the right time.

Ollie Collard: 1:08:41

After that, and so in terms of the next five years, you mentioned always having this range of products and services. What does success look like for you? Yeah, it's five years Yeah,

Unknown: 1:08:51

I was gonna answer that part of the question actually. So so for us something that we were always banging in to all of the all of the guys that work for us they weren't with us don't make all the guys to work with us is for success for me in five years time is to see absolutely everybody that's currently in the business still be there apart from one who might have retired a good on him if he does what he does, I'm not sure we will really hopefully does free sake because I'll drive him mad in five years. But no, seriously, yeah, five years. I would love if success to me would would be the the everybody that still this in our business currently still is in five years time, but they've all developed their careers. So like Ben touched on earlier, some of the guys are completely new to finance. Some of them are apprentices. So I've got a wealth of experience in certain parts that they might want to navigate and, and push on into other areas. In order for us opportunities, isn't this in order? Yeah, in order for us to do that we we Ben and I, as owners of the business and Adrian I have to continue to grow it. Because if it stays flat, none of these guys that and they're amazing, every single one of them is amazing. And they won't be able to develop unless we grow our business. So it's down to us. So and that's what I love about actually having a business is that is that it's not just asked, and it's not just the the six cubes and our wives. It's everybody. And and we want everybody to succeed, don't we? Yeah, I mean, but it's down to us. And I love that. Yeah, exactly right. Couldn't have said it better this, creating that platform for people to develop their careers. Yeah. Creating opportunities by, you know, helping more customers, like we sell it right at the start of the podcast, adding new products, adding new funding relationships, expanding our customer base, if we keep doing that, and we provide the right training to the team, you know, in the office, they get the opportunity to progress their careers. And you know, who knows where access is going to go next. But what I would say is, what we love about our job is working with other like minded businesses. Understanding where finance can impact them, yes, in a positive way. So that is the most important thing is making it accessible, relatable understanding what finance will do for the business, bringing those opportunities in taxa, and then just seeing the team grow. So I don't think it's very difficult to put put certain milestones, I think, when you know, we've, we've always been, you know, let's just keep going, keep working hard. Let's just keep trying to do the right things. Have the right relationships, you know, the right partners. You know, and that's, you know, that's worked well so far. And we'll continue with that. We there's no five year, let's get out of here. Yep, we need EBIT, da to be this and that and all of that malarkey. But don't get me wrong, that's right, as well, by the way, but that's just not mine. And Ben's approach. Our approach in this is that we just want to grow and develop a team of people and a business. And really just just see where it ends up. We aren't doing the right things, we have management accountants that go through and we've started due diligence already. And we're only free Well, they've been in the business for six months. So in five years time, if somebody does come knocking, we've got five years worth of due diligence already done. And so so we are always planning for the future. But the ultimate outcome for Ben and I isn't a sell. It's just to continue to develop our people.

Ollie Collard: 1:12:32

We're moving on now to one of the key parts of the podcast. So I always put our featured entrepreneurs on the spot, I want you to distil down just one piece of advice that you'd pass on to an early stage founder, or somebody thinking of starting a business. Don't

Unknown: 1:12:50

just think that you can do it all or, or no at all. I think that's really important. So, you know, like, Whatever, whatever your business is, or whatever market you're in. It is like running the business is challenging. There's no get away from it. You might be commercial, you might have a finance background, like like I said earlier, so I think you know, having a bit of humility, understanding where your strengths are dialled lucky, I got a business partner, we got some good people around us, but knowing your limitations, knowing you know, what you like doing where, you know, where, where you add value to your business, and then having other people around you that can fill in the gaps or outsource into other businesses that can support you. So I'd say that's, you know, there's, there's a lot of there's a lot of advice and guidance that you can get from, you know, from partners or you know, your network. So, just don't be afraid to ask and don't don't try and do it yourself. I love that. I'm gonna go back to Simplicity is key, one of our obviously that one of the mantras of hexa. And for me personally, I would just say don't be afraid to say no, because when you renew start business or a founder, it's very hard to say no sometimes even for something that's that's lost making, and that that really just be my advice. But Ben's narrative, by the way, but later on the fact that you know, I just wouldn't be afraid to say no back yourself, you know, you've done something for a reason, completely back yourself, and go and have it.

Ollie Collard: 1:14:19

Where can people find out a bit more about hex online and take up their free consultation?

Unknown: 1:14:25

Yeah, so So our website web exa finance dot coder, UK, he's got a wealth of information about the products and services that we offer, but we are an approachable bunch. You know, we we make finance relatable, so we'd always welcome businesses, you know, given us a call chatting to any one of our team about their requirements. You know, we're on usual socials as well, but just about to start tick tock can't wait. I think we are Yeah, one of the apprentices gonna get up. Yeah, we will. We'll come and meet customers. We'll get on the phone with customers. We're approachable. So we're not If not just submit a form and someone will get back to you. It's, you know, we're a people business. You know, we love, you know, we love communicating and interacting with businesses and getting to know him. Absolutely. There's a telephone number on the website, call us one or two of our help, they can't help. They'll take the relevant notes and one of the one of the senior guys sort of specialist in what they were talking about, we'll be straight on the phone within 24 hours. Ben

Ollie Collard: 1:15:24

Chu, it's been an absolute pleasure having you guys on the podcast. Thank you so much for your time. Likewise,

Unknown: 1:15:29

Ali, delighted to join and I can't wait to support the rest of the rest of the series five. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks very much money. Appreciate that. Cheers, guys, just back yourself and go and have it one great motivator, I love that. And you really feel that that is something that is fully integrated in Ben and Xu. They're like, we are just doing this now. And we're enjoying it along the way. Now, talking about kind of enjoying it along the way, one of the aspects of that, that Ben and she just talked about was working with their team. And that being a major motivator with them, in fact, when they talked about their success criteria, being that all the team would still be with them in five years time that came before anything else. They said in answer to that question. And so I think that for many people, teams can be exciting. And motivator, I do think that that's, that's very common, what they were talking about in terms of having that team to really back and work for and grow and develop. But it can also be very draining if you don't get things right with your team. And so, Ben and Stu, demonstrated a lot of lessons that I think that we can learn, they talked about giving opportunities for training and work, they talked about the fact that neither team is there, it gives them the impetus to go out and get more work because it's down to them to provide that work for the team. And they talked about kind of giving opportunities for other people to progress their careers. And that that was a major motivating factor as well, this idea that their team are not able to evolve in this business unless the business grows. And that was something I definitely experienced with my team as we went when we were starting. And then as we were growing, being able to expand in such a way that we could move people to cross if maybe they weren't in perfect fitting roles, but they were still, you know, really good team players. And they just needed to have a different role. But also, that idea of being able to promote people being able to kind of give them a higher salary, and all those things that can be intrinsic, and extrinsic motivators are actually really important to keep the team motivated and keep them engaged. But it's not always going to work out that way as well. So how'd you think that Ben and Stu have navigated this team expansion?

Ollie Collard: 1:18:01

I think they've handled it really well. I think they've obviously grown from the two of them into a team of four and now rapidly expanded to 13. So they're obviously doing something right with their recruitment. But I think the the answer lies in how they see the team as a fundamental aspects of the business. As you said, his answer to the next five years was about wherever the team are growing into their roles, and whether they're aligning with the business growth. And I think the development of people really comes across in this business, I think that their, their new office, they were telling me all about it, it's near chaotic manner. And they basically got a large space above. So this is firm, and they love going into work every day, there's a buzz about it. And I think they get lots of energy by going in and and Sue actually said, they work with us rather than they work for us. And they fundamentally see themselves a part of this growing team. And I think that's at the heart of what they're doing. The growth has enabled them to bring in both experience people, but also younger people into the business. And I think diversity is key when you're building out a team. So they they're obviously offering this new corporate finance arm, they brought in somebody very experienced to run that part of the business. But they've also brought in young talent. So they looked at recruiting an apprentice, and they were so impressed, they actually went back to their local college and they said, Can we hire two of them rather than one? I think you get that raw energy, that passion that new ideas, you know, they're talking about wanting to open a tick tock account for hexa. And I think that is just enabled them to really put the team and people at the forefront of their business and I think that is one of the reasons why they've experienced a lot of success today but also will continue to grow the team and the business over the next five years.

Unknown: 1:20:00

Yeah, it feels very sustainable now doesn't it that growth from listening to them anyway, it because it's not all in their hands because they have diversified. And they're very good at integrating as part of that wider team. And I think one of the things that came across really strongly for me is that they have, and they I think they describe this as well. So they have this humility. And, and that's so important. Being able to know yourself, know your weaknesses, being able to be humble enough to actually engage with people and be empathetic for other people on your team. And to understand their drivers and their motivators, and knowing you can't do it all yourself. And so that quality of humility is something that is really important to develop as an entrepreneur.

Ollie Collard: 1:20:56

Yeah, and I think it also goes hand in hand with honesty. So I think they're quite honest about their approach to business. So there'll be times as when you're a founder, where you don't have all the answers. And the best way of trying to find a solution is actually being honest with your staff and saying, Look, this is the situation, this is a challenge. We don't know the best direction potentially to go in, but actually listening to your staff, getting feedback from them. And actually having the understanding and the awareness that you're not going to get it right, every time is such an important factor in running a business. And also it leads back nicely to the point about just backing yourself as well. And I think there's a great quote by Henry Ford that says, Wherever you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right. And I think that self belief is absolutely critical in being a founder,

Unknown: 1:21:51

absolutely helps us one of the main things we can take away from today is then knowing their weaknesses, knowing themselves, but ultimately having that underpinning self belief. So if you need anything to do with finance, and your business, make sure you go and check out hexar finance. And Ben and Stu do have a question for you. So let's go over and listen to what their question is. Where would you the listeners typically go when, when looking for finance for your business? And I think, you know, a couple of the the options would be, you know, maybe your existing banking relationships or a trusted advisor, like an accountant, you know, maybe you look online, you know, do some searching related to the finance, you think you'd, you'd look, you'd look for all or maybe even, you know, ask your network. And I guess the other end of the spectrum is you just don't know where to turn. So, you know, in that situation, there's obviously, you know, a wealth of businesses across the UK like AXA that can support but you're really interested to, to gauge what people do when they think they they need funding for their business. So don't forget to go and engage on our socials. Let us know what you think the answer is to that question. And talking about socials, shall we go back and check what you are saying about Dominic's question. Ali, tell us about Dominic's question, what were the results? So

Ollie Collard: 1:23:18

Dominic posed the question, what is the most popular experience that the public have booked in? 2020? Free? So he gave us six answers for his question. But on socials were actually allowed four options. So we did have to cut it down slightly. So the four options were caver virtual reality, drone light shows, foraging, or unicon trails. So, interestingly, the public actually selected the right answer. So during light shows, was actually the most booked experience for Europe in 2023. And 71%. of you said on socials that that was the the answer, and you were correct. Followed by 14%. For cave art, virtual reality, and 14%. For unicorn trails.

Unknown: 1:24:12

Wow, I'm actually super. I mean, I did vote for the drone light show as well. But I wonder if all it was just photo because we were like, Yeah, that sounds really cool. I might go and book that. But that does surprise me that that was the most booked. I actually thought yoga, which obviously didn't make it into the final four was gonna be the most booked experience, but just goes to show I mean, it's, it's exciting, isn't it to see that we can do these different and innovative things. And those drone light shows will be using technology and skills and resources and people who are in the Bristol area who are developing those shows, and now they're getting a big audience for it, too. So great work by Dominic and the team at Yup,

Ollie Collard: 1:24:58

yeah. And I think maybe we're headed The founded and grounded Christmas party as a drone light show back here, I reckon. Yeah,

Unknown: 1:25:05

that's a good idea. Let's do it. And I mean lights and Christmas. Come on. There we go. Yeah, it's exactly what we need. Right. So tell us Ali, who's coming up as our next guest.

Ollie Collard: 1:25:17

We're speaking with Catherine who is founder or think rev ops, which is a revenue operations consultancy. So very excited to have Katherine on the show next week.

Unknown: 1:25:29

Yeah, so don't forget to check in for that next episode. And thank you for listening today. If you like what you've heard, please leave us a review on Apple podcasts. And don't forget there's a big selection of previous episodes, search founded and grounded on your favourite podcast player. Thank you for listening to find it and grounded with Ollie collard and Dr. Becky sage. Don't forget to press that follow button to help us to grow the show.