Mr Bug - From music to mealworms

Meet Conal Cunningham, a music industry veteran turned pet food innovator, and discover his remarkable business journey of perseverance and innovation.

We deep-dive into the origins of Mr Bug, a company redefining pet nutrition through sustainably bred insect protein. 

This startup story has everything from kitchen experiments to funding struggles and scaling triumphs. 

Whether you're a founder, an eco-conscious individual, or simply curious about the intersection of sustainability and business, this episode is a must-listen. 

Key Takeaways:

- Understand how starting small and bootstrapping can be leveraged as a strategic advantage for learning, evolving, and growing your business

- How to engage with your customers early on and how this can lead to immediate sales and traction when you launch your startup

- The framework for building a stand-out brand in a crowded marketplace

- The potential of insect protein to contribute to food security and the circular economy.

Have questions about this episode? Ask our hosts, chat now via our website

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Oh

Conal Cunningham: 0:09

we literally had a couple of pints. He laughed at me for daft idea. And then we and he's just like, well, let's just start. Let's get some and see how easy it is

Dr Becky Sage: 0:24

you're listening to find it and grounded with Ollie collard, and Dr. Becky sage. The podcast brings you the honest realities of startup life. If you're a founder or aspiring entrepreneur, this is for you. We know running a business can be lonely and tough at times. And we want to help you get ahead with simple tips and sound advice. Every fortnight we hear inspiring stories from an early stage business owner, who's only a couple of steps ahead of you talking about what they've learned. And as your hosts, we share our insights and experiences as founders. So you can apply this to your own business. Hello, I'm Dr. Becky sage and co host of founded and grounded and I'm here today with Ali. Hi, Ali. How are you? Very well. Thank

Ollie Collard: 1:16

you. It's great to be back in the studio with you. Yeah, we

Dr Becky Sage: 1:19

were just saying how we have been doing some online recordings recently. And it's nice to actually be face to face again. Yeah,

Ollie Collard: 1:25

it's great to be back in person and time is absolutely flying by it's nearly Easter, which we're looking forward to actually taking a break to Lisbon. Me and my wife. So yeah, very much looking forward to taking a couple of days.

Dr Becky Sage: 1:38

Very nice. On Easter. I'm getting up at 4am to go and do a gymnastics competition. So not sure it felt like rest, but

Ollie Collard: 1:46

sounds very enjoyable. Nevertheless, yeah,

Dr Becky Sage: 1:48

my kind of fun, or they're not the 4am Get up? I'm not sure. Yeah. The other thing that I'm quite enjoying at the moment with the podcast is that we've got our team around us right now. And so it's really nice to be able to have lots of people who are helping out with the podcast and helping bring this to you both here in terms of the listening, but also on our socials as well.

Ollie Collard: 2:10

If you want to go fast, go alone. But if you want to go further go together. Absolutely.

Dr Becky Sage: 2:15

And I'm sure that's something that this week's entrepreneur would agree with. Who is it? So

Ollie Collard: 2:20

we've got collard coming in who is the founder of Mr. Buck, which makes sustainable dog treats made from mealworms. I

Dr Becky Sage: 2:29

loved this episode and listening to it kind of gave me the sense that if he's going to put time and energy into something, then it better be done well, and it better be worth it. And I think that that maybe comes from the fact that this isn't his first business. He's had a business before. So let's find out a little bit more about his history and how that's led to where he is today.

Ollie Collard: 2:53

Con Oh, good afternoon.

Unknown: 2:55

Good afternoon.

Ollie Collard: 2:56

Thank you so much for joining us on founded and grounded. I'm really excited to hear more about Mr. Buck. But before we dive in, can you tell us about your background Connell? Because this isn't your first rodeo is it you've run and founded Busch studios for 25 years? So can you tell us a bit more about your background? And I'm really interested to know, what's one mistake that you've made in your first business that you've promised not to make this time around? work

Unknown: 3:25

too hard? No, I Yes. So I started. Basically, I came to London when I was about 23. And I came to London to follow the Rock and Roll dream as as many try and do without Artie dream. And I met my wife and basically did did okay, it was it was all right. But as my wife pointed out when I got to 30 that I wasn't gonna make it. And if I weren't, and if we were to breed, I have to stop being a rock and roll radio. So I had to give it up and I then, but try not have a proper job. I started the studios up in Shepherds Bush, which was very small, first of all, just three small studios. And over the years we've grown and I suppose in many ways now we're kind of one of the known Studios in London. So it's it's been great. It's been a fabulous way of not having a proper job. And yet really lucky to still be there actually considering, you know, the music industry having its ups and downs. And then of course COVID was nearly nerdy terminated, which is kind of why Mr. Bug exists. Because I really thought that we weren't gonna make it. It's very difficult where we are people see the venues and they see the front. But there's a lot of us who work in the background in music, and we were really hung out to dry a lot. So my wife and I thought well, our contingency plan as we moved down to Devon was we could flood a London pub new data Dev and recalibrate and I've always been quite We're interested in the environment, also the effects the climates having on us and the effects were having on it. And just looking at contingency plans for the future, and I was quite surprised that in the UK, there wasn't this plan B. So I thought that that would be something to stop. But yeah, so that's, that's kind of the background and how it all started with the studio. As far as not making, you know what I think I'm really lucky because my first business worked. Yeah. And that's sort of I've been blessed with that, really?

Ollie Collard: 5:36

And how do you manage your time running two separate businesses?

Unknown: 5:40

Yeah. Yeah, there's, you have to work a lot. But you have to work clever. I think I screwed myself into the ground a little bit over the last year or so thinking that actually, the more I worked, the more I get done. And in fact, it doesn't actually work that way. You've got to do quality work, as opposed just plugging away. And we'll see because you ended up looking at a piece of paper 10 times, and you have no idea what you're doing.

Ollie Collard: 6:05

Indeed. So I want you to take us back to 2020. A memorable year for everyone. So you talked about, you know, relocating potentially down to Devon and recalibrating. What were the kind of pain points that you were addressing then when setting up Mr. Buck?

Unknown: 6:21

Well, I mean, at the time, the pain points, while the studio was obviously what I was looking at just a cliff, and it fallen off. So and I think this is where it came in. I talked to a friend of mine about starting this pool Walton. He was it was currently was living down in Devon. And it seems like a really cheap way of starting and one of the reasons why we chose mealworms, as well to breed us that we can vertically find them. And so we didn't need a massive setup in order to do this. So in many ways, it was it seemed like a really cheap and accessible way to try this, this model out. So that's, that's, that's, that's what happened at that point.

Ollie Collard: 7:07

So the two of you came together discussing like capital investment into well, you

Unknown: 7:12

know, what, no, we literally had a couple of pints. He laughed at me for daft idea. And and then we and he said like, well, let's just start, let's get some and see how easy it is. So we had a box in the kitchen, we moved to a shed effectively, and then to a an enter a small unit. So it was actually really slow growth initially, just as we learned how to how to do it. And what are the mistakes that you can make? And how to rectify those in small, small form, as we studied, grew, so it didn't need a massive capital investment, initially.

Ollie Collard: 7:50

And when did it go from that kind of hobby interest between the two of you to actually thinking, well, can this actually be a business? Well,

Unknown: 7:57

yeah, I think that we I talked to, I have another company that didn't do quite so well, I think or baggy, which is something designed by my wife and was a little ball that you put bags into and attach it to your key ring. So you always had bags with you when you took the dog out for a walk, um, and was initially for supermarket bags, but it migrated into the pet industry into walking for walking dogs. And basically saw the chap I knew from that said, Well, you know, actually, I know you're doing a worthy journey. But insect protein is beginning to become popular in the, in the dog food world. So that's kind of why we segwayed into that. And is that when I looked at it, and I looked at the numbers of thought, actually, and then the studio had been rescued. And I have you know, by the Arts Council grant, and actually, by TfL, being very generous with with rent, and actually we got through. And of course, when things kicked off, was it 2021 music industry came back and was bonkers. And so it's kind of well, you know, the studio could afford to help. So we build a farm we bought a small commercial farm. And that's really that's the first proper investment that went in to try and scale this up and see what would happen next.

Ollie Collard: 9:14

And tell me about the product range that you're currently selling for Mr. Buck?

Unknown: 9:17

Well, at the moment we start we started off doing an insect a sorry, a dog treat and the reason really it's it's sort of low volume high price it's a it's accessible for us and the reason why we you know we chose the pet industry is because it is enormous it's worth a lot of money and it's also really embraces novel ideas. And it's in fact so actively searching for new ideas. And also in separate vets we're beginning to recommend it because it's really healthy. So we did the dog treats first of all, and that was really to establish the brand, get it out there, get a market reaction and and see if this was actually the right route for us.

Ollie Collard: 10:00

People do vote with their feet. So what was that initial reaction? Like? Well, you

Unknown: 10:03

know, we were, we were so concerned that there was gonna be a massive yuck factor about, you know, insect protein. And it might even though 80% of the world eats this stuff, the 20% that don't, even though they probably do inadvertedly, we were quite concerned that there's just people going to turn the nose up at this, and it wasn't gonna happen. But when we started doing consumer shows, people would see our name, which is the great thing about being called Mr. Bug. And they'd come over and tell us what a difference have made to their pets to their dogs, having turned over to turn to insect protein, and how healthy they become. So we were really bored. There's people basically, through experience of insect protein, we're going yes, the best thing that we've ever tried. So anyway, especially for dogs with allergies, and dietary complaints, and things like that. Amazing.

Ollie Collard: 10:48

And tell me a bit about some of the nutritional benefits then of mealworms over other insects, aside from the tasty fact that the incident insect protein market is predicted to be worth up to 10 billion by 2030. You will I think the benefits

Unknown: 11:03

one, obviously, for us was in growing it but the actual protein is, it's very palatable. I think that they're all quite similar. In a way. They're all very simple proteins that dogs can digest. And if you think as mammals, we've been eating insects since we were fish, you know, we can digest insects, that's possibly why the world around us eats them. But yeah, I think it's the palatability. And I really think that mealworm protein is it's really nutty, it's really flavours and people are quite surprised when they smell it, and how pleasant it is. And so we don't have to mask it with lots of ingredients, we can use really natural ingredients to create really natural products. And I think that's the main benefit of the direction we've chosen as far as what the protein is. So

Ollie Collard: 11:51

you've got the UK soy meal worm farm down in Devon, but not

Unknown: 11:56

lots not. So mealworm Defra approved farm for creating pet products, there are other farms but because there's an awful lot mealworms are used as a lot of people know for reptiles for exotic pets, and also of course for wild birds. But that's that's generally drive me a winter they're brought in from China that you wouldn't want to feed your chickens. So there are other farms but we're the only ones that are actually Defra approved to produce the protein that can be used in pet food.

Ollie Collard: 12:24

Amazing. And your businesses very passionate about the circular economy. So your mealworms are raised on Cornish Brown, I believe. Yeah. Which is a byproduct of Cornish wheat milling. So can you explain what you provide in return to them? And what is the benefit of kind of circular economics? And why can it be so impactful?

Unknown: 12:44

Well, the circular economics for us really, if we put a wheat brand in and we get a thing meal, women, you just cook fresh out. And this is really something you know, something I didn't know about when we first started this. But this frass, and we're just doing studies now, we're beginning to find out that has the potential to help crops be drought resistant, and pest pest resistant, which obviously in this day, and age is genius. So that is an organic fertiliser, organic manure that can be used as part of a fertiliser, that potentially can help crops, be more be more resilient against the climate change that is going on around us any of that there is going to be drought and there are going to be more insects. So it could potentially be gold really for us.

Ollie Collard: 13:35

And that when wind dynamic of helping others and business being very circular, what value do you place on that?

Unknown: 13:42

Well, I think it's immense. If you were looking to make a sustained, sustainable food source, the fact that that sustainable food source also helped crops grow, where it's just a win win situation. And it just it's, it really sort of makes me wonder more, why hasn't this been done before? And I just sort of, and then you look at France and you look at Germany, and you look at all the other new European countries, and you realise that they are 1000 years ahead again, in what we're doing. And the reason why they've invested the hundreds of millions they have in infrastructure is because they see this real value in this

Ollie Collard: 14:18

Why do you think the UK is so far behind? I

Unknown: 14:21

think the UK is the way the UK invests is quite strange. I thought at this stage, we'd have more help from the government. Just because you know, we're coming up with a plan B and why wouldn't you have a plan B, but here it's very private equity driven, you know, even when you get a grant, you have to stump up a certain amount of private equity against it. Whereas you talked to we talked to people our competitors in in in Europe and they go no, we get money from the government look into things you know, we we have to show that prove that we're worth it. But actually we get money and there's no we don't have to find private investment to match it. So I think that these other European countries can, can go a lot further than we can. Because they have proper investment in this, these sort of worlds. And

Ollie Collard: 15:12

tell us a bit about your funding then. So it sounds like some of it, obviously, you've invested yourselves. But I know you've got some Innovate UK funding, but you said this has to be much funded essentially.

Unknown: 15:22

Yeah, it's, it's, you know, what we've been blessed. We had amazing 2022 as Fabrice so we, we started the farm up. And then we went and I during lockdown, we looked spoken to loads of people, entomologists, and we'd formed a little team around us, especially people who knew how to write for an Innovate UK grant because it is its own skill, really, and a fabulous lady called gear. And she was an entomologist from Iceland. And she really has her head screwed on, and she, she helped us write the application. And that was really to look into optimising mealworm production, and different types of feed and all sorts of bits. So we were really wonderfully surprised to get that grant, which we did have to find some money to guess. But that's just how it works. Yeah, at the same time, that really gave us a step to be able to receive to look at seis funding, which give the government its credit, excuse me, is a great scheme. I don't know if you know, about seis. It's fabulous. And so we reraised, that in 2022. And that really gave us the ability to march forward and release the products to market and to market it to a degree and basically keep going. Because, you know, running fund doesn't make money initially. And especially at our size, it's like anything, you don't get a farm that's just made out of someone's garden, it needs to be of a certain size. So it's allowed us to do the market research. It's allowed us to get feedback from people through that. It's allowed us to research how to optimise breeding. And it's really taken us an awful a fabulous way forward. And now really, it's that it's going the next stage of funding to take us to the next level. Excellent.

Ollie Collard: 17:23

And so are you looking at your seed round next, then or if you've got some angel investment, it sounds like we have

Unknown: 17:29

some investors that joined us last year. So we're just really waiting back from seis. Right now, we're kind of literally I was hoping last week, so maybe this week, or maybe next week, we should ask them the information and it comes through and I'm you know, we got to before we haven't changed the company, really. So I assume it's going to be along the same. It'll be fine. And enough, we go again, and and with that, we will release a full range food. I mean, this is what we found is because of people's interest in insect protein, you can't really bang on about the benefits, the sustainable benefits and health benefits with a treat you can do with the food. So that will really allow us to I think, you know, get a profit position in the market.

Ollie Collard: 18:16

Do you think the government should be doing more in terms of research into near worm farming?

Unknown: 18:22

Well, you know, the way we work here is we have grant applications, we have grants and that's that's just the way it is and you have to prove that you're worthy of of the investment, and they are definitely working harder towards net zero now and acknowledging it more than they ever did before. So in a sense, I think their heads screwed on now. And they are looking to help. Every single business that's in my position is gonna go, I want more money. Give me some money and

Ollie Collard: 18:51

talking of money, how far are you away from kind of profitability in terms of the stage of the business at the moment? Well, I

Unknown: 18:58

really think that once we get this food out that it's not going to be too far away at all, I would say give us six months of building subscription based service. We've got a whole load of consumer shows to be doing this year in the summer, getting some proper marketing and this what the money will allow us to do is get the marketing because otherwise you're just another product. And I think we have an awful lot to give. We haven't we're a fun young company that wants to educate people and try and then take some of the the yuck factor out of insect protein and say to people actually this is fabulous and try it on your pets and then hopefully that will build confidence and the consumer the human consumer market will be next word

Dr Becky Sage: 19:49

about our sponsors. The security threat to UK tech startups is growing. Protecting your innovation is crucial to your business success. Secure innovation is Is here to help, and it only takes a few simple steps to get started. Don't leave it too late. Visit npsa.gov.uk forward slash innovation. To find out more, and download the quickstart guide for free today. Are you looking to access finance for your business but unsure where to go and who to trust? Introducing hexar finance, providing growth funding to startups and scale ups throughout the UK, Ben and stews started exa finance with a clear mission to make finance more accessible to business owners like you. Launched in 2020. They know firsthand the growing pains you're facing their fast growth business is the proud winner of the startup of the Year Award, and has recently been recognised for its economic contribution. So if you need funding now, or it's on your horizon, the experience team at hexar finance are here to help to access your free consultation, simply go to hexar finance.co.uk, forward slash contact. I feel I have to admit right now that I'm a vegetarian. And I don't know how well I am able to comment on my own attitude towards whether or not I would eat insect protein because I don't really eat any meat. However, I do completely understand that it is going to be very likely there's going to be important in terms of feeding the global population in the near future. And I don't think that people, including our governments have really understood the pressure that climate change and other global factors are going to have on food security, but bugs really do potentially provide the answer, right.

Ollie Collard: 21:45

I mean, they're a great source of protein. I haven't literally tried it yet. But all advice from Connelly's actually, it's a very nice flavour, quite nutty. So definitely open to trying it. And I think you know, you're doing your bit there, Becky, anyway, being a vegetarian. I mean, if you look at all the carbon footprint from farming and how much it takes to produce beef, then actually, you know, you're definitely doing your bit. Thank

Dr Becky Sage: 22:09

you. I do appreciate it. And I will be feeding my cat mealworms. As soon as we have a cat version of Mr.

Ollie Collard: 22:16

Bug cuter Connell there.

Dr Becky Sage: 22:18

Yeah, if you're listening in panels, let's have some, some cat treats as well, unless the cats turn their noses up at them. Because I know my cat can be very, very fussy. So something else I want to pick up on. Jumping into the business of Mr. Bargain. The lessons that we've learned there from Connell is he mentioned something about getting lucky in business. And I just thought this was something really important to pick up on because luck does have a role in business doesn't,

Ollie Collard: 22:47

it does have a massive factor. Really, I think timing often is very critical. Like if you're too early and the markets not ready, then you have to spend 1000s, and even even more educating the market. So I think timing is very important. And you can get lucky with the timing. But I adamantly believe that business success is not based on luck. It's about creating the right conditions to make your own luck. I think if you have the right mindset and you think in abundance, and you do lots of networking, that naturally the universe is going to give you those opportunities. And I think if you are creating your own luck, then that's of your own doing. So I'd say there's nothing lucky about doing that. Yeah,

Dr Becky Sage: 23:31

absolutely. It's like, of course, there are things that are going to mean it's going to be easier or maybe more challenging to do certain parts of business. But like you said, you can be prepared for when those opportunities come along. And being able to spot the opportunities, I think is something really important being able to take those opportunities where they come along. And that's what I was really hearing from Connell when he was talking about his first business and kind of moving towards the what he's doing now with Mr. buggies. He's really identified where there is an opportunity. So he's in the right place when circumstances come along. And this is like understanding the market need understanding gaps in the market and how to fill this gap. I mean, this is something that he's exemplifying in terms of the story that he's telling and the business that he's building right now,

Ollie Collard: 24:17

what do you got to understand is that actually, this wasn't his first foray into the stock market. So he actually explored this with baggie, you know, which ultimately didn't get traction. But from this, he understood the market a lot more. He conducted a lot of sort of experiments, he understand what the pain points are for dog owners and what they actually want from a product. And from all of this research and experimenting, this business has been built off the back of it. And what I really love about it is that he's created this niche in the sector. And that's the starting point, but he does have this much bigger vision, so I'm not going to give too much away but in section three of the pie webcast, we'll come back to how he's going to expand, Mr. Berg, and it's obviously going to go beyond just dog treats.

Dr Becky Sage: 25:07

Yeah, absolutely. Something else that I love about what he's done, of course, he's taken some opportunities. And he's built the business based on what he's identified as the market needed based on those experiences he's already had. He's taken it further, and he's really looking at building the circular economy. And I just love the fact that apparently, mill worm excrement is really great fertiliser for the food that you feed mealworms like who knew? Who would

Ollie Collard: 25:33

have known, right? But obviously, this is something that is embedded within the business. And I think if you're taking Carlos mindset about thinking very holistically, having a very macro vision of how the sectors interlink, then, actually, this comes quite naturally, because he's got this awareness, he can connect the dots. Ultimately, the core of the business is this sustainability element. So naturally, the circular element comes into it quite nicely. And thinking about the entire supply chain,

Dr Becky Sage: 26:05

I was trying to think about how other entrepreneurs could look at this, because they might not be in the same situation whereby it's kind of such a nice, neat, little circular economy. But I was thinking back to the interview with Enzo pap, and for example, where casual looks at the end to end impact. And by looking at that whole end to end impact, you start to see where the dots can be connected. So I think that's something that every entrepreneur can do with their business. Yeah,

Ollie Collard: 26:31

there's many comparisons here between Connell and Kishore I think and if you haven't listened to that episode already, and you're interested in sustainability, I would say definitely go out and listen to episode eight with Kishore from nvao. Pap.

Dr Becky Sage: 26:46

Another tip is also to look local, I think that's something else that Connor was doing here as his look to local in it. And that, again, is really going to be helpful in terms of food security in terms of business security in the future.

Ollie Collard: 27:00

Yeah, I mean, if you're buying local, obviously, it improves the local economy, but also looking at things like food miles, it makes so much more sense to buy locally. And you know, even things like if you're looking to buy honey, for example, then it's going to have better ramifications for your health if you're buying local honey. So it just makes sense to think locally. This is a

Dr Becky Sage: 27:19

deep and very useful episode. This is for you guys. So something I kind of briefly alluded to in this first part was that he has a co founder. And I know that co founder dynamics is always something that we're quite interested in. And all of the entrepreneurs I talked to are always like, how do I find the right co founder? Or how do I work with my co founder. And Connell has some ideas about that. So let's have a listen.

Unknown: 27:48

Well, I mean, it's quite good, because we have both very defined position. So he runs the farm, and he is the one who is streamlining and optimising it. So if that is his world, and he also does dispatch, so all that sort of farm stuff that world is his. And he works very closely with Dr. Adam, who's our research entomologist now from the Innovate grant. So they that's really wonderfully clearly defined. And I do the office nonsense, which is, you know, just counting beans and making sure that we, I basically steer the other ship, the commercial side and the commercial side. So, in a sense, it actually works quite well. I mean, there are you know, because I'm, you know, when we when money is tight, I'm screaming, you know, optimise optimise spend less money in their game, we need to keep everything alive, and I'm going, oh, you know, this is constant. It is a bit of a battle. But pulling like quite old mates so and you know, as I can be in contact yourself, get and I know he can be as well. So we'll, we'll have the spat and then it's kind of like, okay, well, we did that bit. And then we're, ultimately we both want to make it work. I think he has Fabrice in there because she sort of stands in the middle of the two argument. Yeah. And she's kind of like the grown ups back. So we've

Ollie Collard: 29:23

excellent and then I guess a few points back down the pub if it if it doesn't get resolved. Yeah, we

Unknown: 29:27

know there's always that one points on our own or points together he

Ollie Collard: 29:32

makes good stuff. And I'm really interested to know about one of your favourite failures with this business and what was the lesson that you took from it? God

Unknown: 29:43

favourite failure is a favourite failure. All right, I would, I would say probably having concentrated more on marketing. I think that you There's, I was very lucky with the studio that I kind of grew organically. And we were a destination shopping away. So people would come to us because we were a facility and I, in a sense, I sort of thought, well, if we stick it on the shelves, people will buy it. And I, and even though we have fabulous packaging, and a great product and nice reviews or getting awards, you actually have to market it to people because they just don't know otherwise. And you know, you're just you're just an atom in a sea of in an ocean. So I think that's probably what it would be.

Ollie Collard: 30:36

You have got a great quote from our podcast editor who said, Every day a person is born who doesn't know what the Flintstones are. So you have to continuously educate and market Yeah, it is.

Unknown: 30:47

It's, it's, and it's expensive. So you know, you've got to, you got to do it the right way, you got to do it the clever way. And I think more concentration, if I was anything I will have been on how to market how to be clever about that, and how to get it out there.

Ollie Collard: 31:03

Because I've and building one business can be all consuming alone, too. So I'm really interested to know, what's the sacrifice that you've made, either consciously or subconsciously, you've

Unknown: 31:15

probably asked my wife that one. Me being me being a really nice affable person. Yeah, I used to wave goodbye to that paragliding course he wanted to do and, you know, wave goodbye to a certain amount of having despair time. Because, you know, when you first start a business, you've got to be the everything. You can't afford another member of staff, you know, you hardly pay yourself if you pay yourself at all anything. So you're doing everything for nothing. And so just be prepared to give up. You have to persevere, you have to do the law. And so you have to give up a bit of your life, just to try and kick the thing into into action.

Ollie Collard: 32:00

And there can be lots of moving pieces with the business and both businesses as well. What do you do when things are getting too much? And you feel overwhelmed? Who's who supports you? Well, actually,

Unknown: 32:11

you know what, I've, I've gone back to meditation, I did a course donkeys ago, I came out the forces, and I sort of was bit sort of bit mental. And I suddenly thought, oh, yeah, I remember thing I used to do, which sort of calmed me down a bit. And so I took it up again, got it makes a difference, you know, I don't want to, I no longer want to kick the dog and scream at the wife and it's just kind of pleasant person again. So yeah, I think that will, I think it's a really, really good point. Because it can be overwhelming. Sometimes you can feel there's too much to do, and there's no way you can you can swim against the tide. So, you know, half it's a psychological battle. So just little things like that, you know, you know, jokes aside, you can go down the pub, but it doesn't actually fix anything, because so something like that. Well, it's really helped me anyway.

Ollie Collard: 33:06

Good to hear. And I know you're born in South Africa. Yeah. So how has that influenced your life and running these businesses? So I

Unknown: 33:14

think, in many ways, the initial idea I went back to Africa many years ago, I've travelled around that, you know, one to go and visit, see where I was from, I left when I was three years old. So it wasn't a massive impact on my life at that stage. But you know, you see their people eating the grubs and going well, this is just genius, you know, that people will see that it opened my eyes to that world. I think, you know, maybe just being bored away gives you a slightly more objective view of how life can be and what your options are.

Dr Becky Sage: 33:51

I love that Conor lamb was just talking about getting an objective view. And one way to be more objective is something that Kahneman spoke about, and so many other entrepreneurs have spoken about heart in this podcast as well, is to meditate. But I don't think we've read like tapped into why it's so helpful for entrepreneurs. So why don't you think that meditation is a tip that so many entrepreneurs give, because being

Ollie Collard: 34:16

a founder is bloody hard work, quite frankly, I think that the analogy that I compare it to is like being stuck stuck in a swamp or being stuck down by treacle and you're kind of trying to wade through everything and feels like you're not making any progress and you're just in the thick of it, right? So you need something that's going to take you out of that mindset, give you some perspective, give you some time to think objectively about why you're doing what you're doing, and where you want to go and think of the logical next steps. I have to admit I'm 60s into my business and I'm only really getting started on my journey to meditation. But I can already see the benefits in terms of the increased clarity of thought the increased awareness. Again, a shout out To show you recommended some really good tips for breath work and meditation in episode eight. But um, yeah, I think there's a lot to be explored here. And it's starting to gain traction in the entrepreneurial community. And I think rightly so.

Dr Becky Sage: 35:14

Something that it really helps me with is actually giving your brain a bit of a rest. Because I think that we, again, we go, go go. And when we talk about entrepreneurs being kind of 24/7, it's all well and good that you can take yourself out of the office or away from the computer, but your brain does not stop going. And I think these little moments of rest can be really important. I remember talking to one of my coaches way back, and she, I was kind of said to her well, for like, when I if I meditate, my brain kind of stops for a second. And she was like, Yeah, but there's a second, you wouldn't have had otherwise. And I thought that that was actually really useful to be like, oh, yeah, and it does really work. If you can kind of just slow it down and be present, then that really helps. And I think this is the other aspect where meditation is really useful is training yourself to be present. And this was something that Connell brought up, is that when we are so kind of like you said, it's hard to be an entrepreneur, and you it's very easy to get stressed, it's very easy to, for every little thing to become overwhelming. So if you can just kind of stay in the present, and keep a good perspective, then that's going to help you to navigate those moments without kind of flying off the handle or, you know, getting too overwhelmed or too stressed or too angry or aggressive, or however it is that you might respond in those moments. Yeah, I

Ollie Collard: 36:36

think being present is so critical. Like, you know, if I'm working, I try and focus 100% on the work that I'm doing. If I'm with my kids, then I try and give them the attention they need. And actually, they're a great way of staying present because you have to give them that attention. Because they need it right. But um, yeah, I think if you're trying to stay present and have your awareness on the task in hand, whatever you're doing, that it's going to help you in the long term.

Dr Becky Sage: 37:00

Let's change track a little bit. You said in the in the sort of last part of the interview, every day a person is born who does not know who the Flintstones are. Marketing is so important for entrepreneurs, perhaps that sounds like such an obvious thing to say. But I think it is so commonly forgotten how much marketing you need to do, I think there is still a build it and they will come mindset in many cases. And reality is that just doesn't work. Right. I

Ollie Collard: 37:31

think people are scared of putting themselves out there or selling themselves. And if they've had a couple of noes or bad experiences, they don't feel very comfortable marketing and selling that their product or service. And just a side note, our editor James actually told me about that quote, so I have to give him credit. It's not my own thinking. But um, yeah, as you say, like marketing is such a key aspect of running a business. I often see entrepreneurs building something and you know that there's a problem that they may be solving. But sometimes, and quite often more than not isn't, it's not a big enough problem. So actually, there's not a need for the product or service. And ultimately, people will vote with their feet. And they do that by obviously making making purchasing decisions. So I think what business owners need to remember, is some great research done by Google way back in 2015, called the zero moment of truth. And essentially, this takes the rule that on average, it takes a buyer, seven hours of consuming content, off 11 different touchpoints that could be email, a podcast, a newsletter, a webinar, etc. And over four different locations, that could be networking, it could be online, offline, etc. So that's the average of a consumer to make a purchasing decision. So you've got to really be putting yourself out there in terms of your marketing. Because if people haven't got up to that threshold, then they're probably unlikely to make that purchasing decision. And what you got to remember is that not all buyers are in buying mode at the time that you're marketing to them. So it could be the top of funnel piece of marketing, rather than going into a purchasing decision. Absolutely.

Dr Becky Sage: 39:18

And it's about knowing when is the right time and place for each of those types of content, or however you're going to do your marketing and sales. Of course, it doesn't all just have to be about online content. I had a really great example recently, I'm working with an entrepreneur who has managed to get what I think is kind of the best example of an MVP out early on. And he has been doing well. He's been talking to his market for a really long time. And I know we talk about this, but I think it's actually still rarely done well. Where you actually are out there. You're talking to your market. You're being transparent with them, but you're not telling them too much either. You're just telling them what they need to know And he launched last week and got signups immediately and was able to hit a target, but also is doing it in batches, which is something I think is quite interesting. In those early days, if you feel like you're not fully confident with your product yet, you need to first of all recognise that perhaps it's not going to be right for everybody. Some people are happy with being early adopters and kind of growing with you, some people are not happy to do that. And so but you do need to get it out there, you need to get it into the hands of people. And if you can do that in small batches of people at a time, you can learn very quickly from the first batch, and then the next batch and this particular entrepreneur has those batches available to him because he was doing the sales and marketing side of it as the product was getting ready. So I think being able to do that is something that a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with. Yeah,

Ollie Collard: 40:49

and I think a lot of entrepreneurs potentially miss that step. I like his approach here in terms of doing it in batches, because it's limited availability, which takes people getting the FOMO and the fear of missing out and all that stuff. So I think that's really intelligent. But I guess what you would see from an outsider looking in is that, oh, he's launched and he's got loads of signups. And he's in demand for the product with the service when actually he spent years understanding the market need and then launching the product.

Dr Becky Sage: 41:15

Exactly. And I actually know him. So we were in a room with several entrepreneurs, we were all kind of sharing where we were at the moment. And he, when he said where he was, many of them were like, Oh, you're so much further ahead than us. I know for a fact, he's been doing it for far less time than they have I know his product is less developed than theirs is, but they haven't been out there doing that talking and getting to know the market. So I think that's just so key to continue to do that. And not being afraid to repeat yourself, not being afraid to get out there and kind of what feels Do you like being in people's faces, but for them, they're just building up those multiple touchpoints that they're going to need to get to in order to get to know you in order to get to trust you, and ultimately to convert and buy from you. 100%

Ollie Collard: 42:01

and I think repurposing your content or your marketing is the biggest hack and best return on investment that any business owner can actually do.

Dr Becky Sage: 42:09

Something I think Mr. Berg is doing really well is standing out in a sea of content. And I think even the name itself helps to do that, right. But this is what we need to be able to do stand out, when there is just so much content out there. And just the name by itself is not going to get you there, although it's one thing that's perhaps gonna get you noticed. So I like to use an approach called context based marketing, which is really all about figuring out who your customer is, what context it is, by which you're going to interact with them, which kind of what you were talking about before, you're gonna be with them in different places, in different times at different parts of that funnel. And then you need to build a bridge to them by delivering experiences. So it's not actually this kind of content based marketing, it's what experiences are you delivering for them. And so this is a really important thing to think about. When I was listening to this episode, it just felt like this is what Connell and the Mr. Berg team are really thinking about and getting out there and talking to their customers or to the suppliers of their customers, who are the ones that they need to convince, and making it a good experience and standing out above everybody else.

Ollie Collard: 43:20

They definitely are. And I think they understand they're their customers, they're early adopters, but they've got that very clear, ideal customer persona about who they want to target and the pain points that they're addressing, then that means that they can market to people at the right time with the right message. So it gives it gives them a very advantageous position to be in. And I think, you know, if you're becoming known for one particular thing, it really helps. So obviously, the name helps. But being a bit of a thought leader or the go to person in that space makes real sense. Imagine if you are pushing a rock uphill, right? That's that's incredibly hard work. But if you carry on and persist with that, then you'll eventually get to the top and there'll be that tipping point where everything is going to be literally downhill from that point in time. And this is where you get inbound marketing, paying dividends, as people are coming to you. It makes sales so much easier, because you're the go to person. And I think this is what Mr. Berg is going to be known for.

Dr Becky Sage: 44:16

Yeah, absolutely. And it sounds like it's already working for them that kind of trade shows. And when they're going out and doing that people are like, Oh yeah, we're hearing about this whole meal worm thing and insect protein. And so And you're the one doing it. So now we're coming to you. And so it's kind of it's already working in these early days, and it's only going to build from there. Yeah, they've

Ollie Collard: 44:35

got some great traction at crafts and some other stuff as well. So I think they're really building up their reputation crafts

Dr Becky Sage: 44:41

is the place to be for a dog tree brand. So talking about them growing their bat brand and building their brand. Shall we find out what's next for Mr. Berg?

Unknown: 44:55

You're not going to put bug flakes onto the supermarket shelves. I mean, that's it's not going to happen that way. So I think, you know, what do you need to look at? Are the benefits of insect protein? Do can they help they give incremental benefits to athletes. So is there any incremental value, so we really need to start studying that, look at that the absorption rate. And it might well be in a protein bar is where you come in with, you know, there's, there's the forces, for instance, perhaps this is a place to go to that you help them out. And also, obviously, you get your Nike moment, when you get your Jordan to go and try a bar going, Oh, my God, I am just now genius. And then, and that those are the things that can really change perception by people. So I think that's really the way that into that mark. And once again, I think, you know, mealworms are the right place to go because you can use all these natural ingredients, and it will be tasty, and people will like it, because it is actually very likeable. So I think that's gonna be the way into the market, you know, protein shakes, these sort of things that people actively have anyway. But if you can show that this protein shake is not only really tasty, but it's super, super healthy for you, then I think that'll be really the way that once does.

Ollie Collard: 46:14

And looking ahead to the next five years, what would success mean for you, I

Unknown: 46:21

think to, to meet the right partners, to we need to grow, build a big industrial farm, this, this to bring the prices down to match market, to bring to match market prices, we need to create a massive something, something is sized to match the Europeans. So we know what we need is proper investment. So with that, that will allow us to a good because at the moment, we have to import everything from Europe, nothing is made here. And I think that will be really lovely is to be the people who did that, who created Britain's protein from and I don't just think for mealworms, it'd be lovely to gather other people who are in the same process with black soldier fly and come together and somehow work together to form something that brings the cost down so that we could we could make this you know, a proper product for the markets. The end of the day, we're creating a highly intensive protein source that's insulated from climate change. And as things move forward, we need that. So I know you've got to be commercial about this. But I also think the UK really needs to have it. So that would be my well I really like to get to is and obviously that the brand is brilliant, and everyone thinks it's fabulous. And I do more of these. But with a hat or something.

Ollie Collard: 47:49

One of the key parts of founded and grounded is asking our featured entrepreneurs to distil down just one piece of advice that you pass on to somebody running an early stage business. Well, that

Unknown: 48:02

because you do know it's gonna be the one I sure I've nicked this off someone else perseverance. It is just, it's Phil's sometimes off, he just got to persevere, which is not probably anyone who's starting a business, they're getting a really, there's no magic wand. There isn't a magic ball. You just have to persevere. And be slightly bloody minded and be eternal, the eternal optimist. That's those the things so withdrawal helps perseverance, really.

Ollie Collard: 48:38

And when founders are having those very dark days, everything isn't going in their favour. What do you find beneficial to get you refocused on your mission? And what success looks like for you? How do you how do you push through that barrier and persevere? Well,

Unknown: 48:54

you know, I think it is chipped away at small tasks. If it's all overwhelming, just do the little bit, just keep doing something. But just do a little task here. Just, you know, have lists have lists, because lists, I tend to find that when I I've done something if I don't have my next task that in my mind is shuts down on me and refuses to let me know what I'm supposed to do next. So if I haven't list it bypasses that mental problem I seem to have. So yeah, lists.

Ollie Collard: 49:25

Can I find new you better? What's one question that I would have asked you. How

Unknown: 49:29

did you survived this long? And I would say by luck? Yeah, I think just by perseverance, I just think, yeah.

Ollie Collard: 49:43

And you make your own luck, right?

Unknown: 49:45

You do to a degree I the same time. I think luck. You do make your own luck. At the same time. You know, I've been very fortunate, for instance, to have a business that worked. My first business worked. So I'm very fortunate about that. I've very fortunate to have a wife of puts up with me. And I've been fortunate to have the people I work with, and I've met the right people, but you know, but absolutely, it's luck is degree of it.

Ollie Collard: 50:11

And where can people find out a bit more about you personally and Mr. Berg? Well, you

Unknown: 50:16

probably find out a little bit more about I'm not personalised to throw myself in the front of the traffic too much. But you know, Mr. Buggs, Mr. buck.co.uk. That's where we are bout to revamp the website. But it's that's basically got an essence of who we are, what we're doing, why we're doing it. And more importantly, what you can buy. Sir.

Ollie Collard: 50:39

Colin, thank you so much for your time and insights this afternoon. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show. Yeah, thank you very

Unknown: 50:46

much. lovely to be here.

Dr Becky Sage: 50:50

As we said before, luck does play a part. But you have to also be ready for opportunities. And I think one of the most important things you need to be able to do as an entrepreneur, is to learn how you respond to your own personal dark days, which what we were hearing about there with Connell. So one thing I was thinking about is this aspect that dark days might mean something different to different people. And I know personally, it's not necessarily business challenges that are dark days. For me, I find that, okay, that's something I can respond to. And I can kind of take action. For me, it's things like, it's burnout, it's illness, it's like the mode, my energy feels sapped. That, to me is what a dark day looks like. So I have to find ways to try to make sure that doesn't happen for me, I have to make sure that I don't overdo it and then burn out. And I have lots of different kinds of tactics for working with that. Do you think that's true of you, as well, in terms of like, dark days, not looking the same for everyone?

Ollie Collard: 51:55

Yeah, I think dark days for me sometimes are when I'm just feeling flat and not motivated or inspired me being a founder, you have to have high levels of self motivation. And second to that, I'd also say that it is sometimes a very lonely journey. Like, if you're a sole founder, in particular, if you haven't got a team, then it become become quite isolating, like you don't have your, you know, your Christmas parties and things like that you traditionally would do in employment. And I think if you're ultimately keeping all of that stuff yourself, then they can become quite dark. So I think always talking about these issues is beneficial to people that are close to you also, with you know, family, friends, mentors, coaches, other business owners is a great one. And yeah, if you're listening to this as a new founder, who perhaps is in the maybe the honeymoon period, still that I would definitely still prepare for those dark days.

Dr Becky Sage: 52:49

Yeah, I completely agree. I certainly try to get the founders I work with together. So they've got a peer group of founders. I think that that's something that's really important. It's why podcasting is so great. You must have so many founder friends, though. Yeah, it was certainly why I've done a lot of the work that I've done is, is so that I could kind of build those relationships and be around other founders, because I definitely find that to be so beneficial. Being in things like incubators, or accelerators can really help with that if you've got the opportunity to build those relationships. And that feels like more solidarity, less loneliness. But of course, like I said, for some people, it can look very, very different as well, that yeah, those dark days come at different times. So I think having some self awareness and doing that early on is really important for you, as a leader, which I think not all entrepreneurs think of themselves as a leader, but you kind of do need to have those leadership qualities in order to know how to navigate those darker times, and therefore be ready for when, you know, probably the next day, the opportunity comes in and you have the energy then to actually take that opportunity.

Ollie Collard: 54:03

Yeah, I think it comes back down to like you say the awareness, and also having the right mindset. We've been doing a lot of reading at the moment about stoic philosophy. A great book by Ryan Holiday, he talks about the obstacle is the way. So it's about how you turn these challenges into things that are going to make you stronger, and ultimately going to bring you success in the long run stoic

Dr Becky Sage: 54:25

philosophy, so we just like, be stoic, and we keep pushing through. That's it. Okay. Yeah. And that feels, yeah, there's a resilience to that. And I like that, again, being done from perspective we were talking about perspective earlier is I think it's very different to do that mindfully, versus just hitting your head against that obstacle over and over and over again, instead of figuring out okay, the obstacle is here, but how are we going to navigate it? So if you're interested in knowing more about Mr. Berg, make sure that you go and pick up his nutritious dog treats and check out the links that he provided for us and of course, was Connor has a question for you. So here's the question from Quantum. Right.

Unknown: 55:04

My question is gramme for gramme. How much more environmental impact does traditional livestock farming cause compared to insect protein? And a few, few possible answers, a, five times b 10 times c, 20 times or D, no extra impact on the environment at all.

Dr Becky Sage: 55:28

Thanks for that call. And we'll get back question to the listeners on socials. Only what people saying about the last episode, which was Bonnie from Dance SOS,

Ollie Collard: 55:38

Bonnie posed a cracker of a question. She said, Who do you want or have, by your side to influence your founder journey? The options were your BFFs or family. The second option was fairly founders third option was investors. And the fourth option was all of the above. Interestingly, nobody selected investors as a standalone answer. The highest answer was all of the above were 38% of the results. And that was then split by the remaining two at 31%. Each. The question also ignited some great comments. Brian kilkelly said, I think friends and family are hugely important. It's such an emotional roller coaster. Often the biggest critic and cause of failure is ourselves. Imposter syndrome, fear of success, all of that stuff. Melissa Sibella also weighed in and said, in the early stages of being a founder, it's important to find people who who are very different to you, who will give you honest advice and feedback, you might not yet be able to hire a diverse team. So people working with you are often friends and family who have similar lived experiences, and they weren't challenged your biases, bring a different perspective or see things that you've missed.

Dr Becky Sage: 57:10

And tell us about our next guest.

Ollie Collard: 57:12

So our next guest is a bit of an outlier. So he's not a typical early stage founder. We have John Williams, who is a partner scbc A deep tech VC, and his previous company floated on the Tokyo Stock Exchange. At the highest point the market cap was 1.5 billion pounds,

Dr Becky Sage: 57:36

where I'm excited to hear this one. Thank you everybody for listening. If you like what you've heard, please leave us a review on Apple podcasts. And don't forget that there's a big selection of previous episodes just search founded and grounded on your favourite podcast player. Thank you for listening to find it and grounded with Ollie collard and Dr. Becky sage. Don't forget to press that follow button help us to grow the show