(Transcribed by Otter.ai)
Announcer 00:06
Welcome to Our True Colors hosted by Shawna Gann. Join her as she explores the challenges of being a racial, racial, and ethnic Enigma, and a cultural conundrum. Let's dive in.
Shawna 00:22
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of our true colors. In this episode, I'm thrilled to introduce to you deja Henry. She is an amazingly talented human being. And we had a great conversation about blogging, as well as her experiences as being part of a multicultural family. Here's a little bit about Dija.
Dija 00:42
I'm an actor, a filmmaker, and I am the founder of Blue House Entertainment, which is a social impact entertainment company. And I really love that I get to tell stories. For fun, I really love watching movies and hanging around the house with my family and just acting silly and laughing. Just hearing my kids laugh and making them laugh is one of my favorite things to do. And I'm such a goofball around. So this is one of my favorite things to do just to kind of wind down.
Shawna 01:15
Well, I think we're just gonna get right onto it. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversation. Here we go.
Shawna 01:32
Hi, Dija Welcome to Our True Colors.
Dija 01:35
Hi, Shawna, thank you so much for having me.
Shawna 01:38
It is my pleasure. I am super excited for our conversation today. As listeners know, I often get to speak with my guests beforehand. So I get a little bit of the inside scoop before everyone else. And let me just say you have such an interesting life, your family, the work that you do all of those things. It's kind of Uncanny exactly how well you fit into what in our True Colors guest the premise of the show really is about belonging, but not just like belonging, as one person might think of it, you know, in any sort of general way. This is about like specifically when you don't fit into those specific categories that people kind of designed for us. So I'm super, super excited that you're here to share your story today. Could you start off by just describing yourself telling us a little about you, your family, anything like that, just so we get to know you a little bit?
Dija 02:32
Well, since this is the true colors podcast, I will start with my family background, because normally it's okay not to but today, I'm fully excited to share my background. I'm my mother's from Jamaica, my father's from India. And I'm first generation born here in America. And I married Ethiopian. He's half black American, half Ethiopian. So we're raising our multi multi cultural family. And it's a lot of fun. Food is fun at my house. We traveled to Jamaica and Ethiopia with the kids and next stop is India. I'm a trained actor. And because I'm an immigrant kid, I also had to study biomechanics in order to be allowed to study acting at school.
Shawna 03:18
Okay, wait a minute, I'm gonna bookmark that one. We're coming back to that. Keep going.
Dija 03:24
So yeah, I studied acting. So I've been acting professionally for 25 years. And I've always wanted to make movies. I didn't know how some growing up, you know, in the 80s. And all we know is the red carpet, the Chinese Theater, like Tom Cruise, you know, and it seems so far away. But I always wanted to make film because I just wanted to connect with people. Because I knew when I saw a character on screen, I didn't feel so alone. And you talked about that the belonging, I didn't feel like I really fully belonged anywhere. But when I saw a character, somehow I felt like I belonged when I went to the movies. Interesting. Yeah, of what they were going through. And I just felt somehow connected. And I just knew I wanted to do that for other people who felt alone, just to know that they're not alone. I think that's really where it started. And it manifested itself in storytelling, because that's a place where a lot of times we feel connected to each other. So I'm so excited that I get to make film today. It started with YouTube and teaching myself how to edit and things like that. And I used to run camera on campus for football games and things so I had some experience. But doing YouTube is all I could do because I had three kids under five and I didn't have the money for film school. And you know, I was just doing what I could do and that eventually turned into doing short films, which eventually turned into me starting my company, and I help other nonprofits and visionaries tell their story through creating impact film and impactful events around the film.
Shawna 05:03
Wow, I love all of that. And you know, there's one thing I want to mention, I think it's so beautiful, that not only did you find connection when you're hearing other stories via movies or the screen, but also that you want to tell stories and help others tell their stories, because there are so many rich things out there that are just shared through oral storytelling. And not only that, but whenever we get to hear other people's stories, it not only helps us, as you said, like with you that connection gives the opportunity for people to develop empathy, understanding, and it breaks down so many barriers that are there, because we don't know about other folks. And so I just think that's a beautiful thing that you found that so early, and you've gone down this path where you can not only share stories of yours, but then facilitate that storytelling of others. So I just think that's really, really cool. What kinds of stories do you share? Or do you like to help others share?
Amanda 06:04
That's
Dija 06:04
That's a really good question. People ask me that a lot. And I wouldn't say is really a genre of storytelling. Because I mean, I love comedy. I love sci fi. Drama is what I've kind of been telling a lot lately. But I think it's really about people, overcoming and hopeful stories. I always say want someone to walk out of the theater feeling better than they when they walked in. And those are the types of stories that I will fight to tell. And I mean, I use that word, because making a movie is a fight. I mean, it can take years to make a film. And so just keeping, you know, everyone motivated through the whole process. I don't know where the fire comes from. I mean, I do know, I think it's something that, you know, is a passion of mine. I feel like I've put on this earth to do it. But I really feel passionate about telling stories that you're like, I can go do the thing. And I can be myself doing it. Yes. So I love stories where the protagonists, they might be themselves, and then they have all of these objections to them being themselves but in the end, it's them being themselves that actually makes them victorious. Those stories really are, you know, attractive to me, I freaking love.
07:29
I talk about authenticity all the time. In fact, before we started our interview, you and I had a little exchange where I was talking about me having to embrace my authenticity. Because how many times do we question the way we're doing something, how we're approaching something, how good we are at something all because of some sort of inner narrative, some voice that's in there, because of external sources telling us what should be shouldn't be, and so on. So the fact that it's not even just like, we're talking about overcoming and resiliency and winning, but you're like, do it as who you are. And
Dija 08:04
Yes! Yeah so in storytelling, there comes a point in every story where a protagonist, there's something that they want, and in order to get it, they have to take off their mask. And they have to become their authentic self. So it feels like death to be themselves. But that's the choice you have to make. Do I want my goal? Do I want, you know, love, or if I want love, I have to shed this persona or this mask that I've been wearing through life. And I think that stories can tell us so much about life. I mean, Art imitates life, life is art. And it's all mixed together. But when you're looking at writing a screenplay and the structure of it, that's the journey of a protagonist, generally. Yeah, having that vulnerability, that moment of vulnerability, which is scary as hell, right? And it feels like it feels like you're gonna die. And that's the choice. That's what makes a story, you know, movie, you're like, you're really into it, because they set it up. So it's that much. It's so scary for the protagonist to make that choice.
Shawna 08:48
Yeah, and those things like even in life, right, not just on the screen, but those are the true pivotal moments, right? When you make that decision to shed that whatever, and be exposed, even though it is scary, because it's in that moment that things do change that pivot. I love that so much. Can I ask you a few questions about your family?
Dija 09:33
Sure.
Shawna 09:34
Because I think, you know, having such a multicultural family where you bring together different aspects of your heritage, your culture itself. I would just love to know a little bit about your family and especially being a parent. What's that like as you navigate the world with all of these different aspects?
Dija 09:55
Yeah, so it's been really interesting because my parents came from country is where they were the dominant culture. So coming here as a minority, I know that was an experience for them. But their main part of development and growing up was being, you know, the majority in Jamaica or India. And also being mono... I don't know what the word mono ethnic or something like...
10:23
and
Shawna 10:23
Yeah - monoracial or monoethnic.
Dija 10:25
So I think as a parent, I've been able to have a lot of empathy for my kids, because I know the struggles that they're having. And the interesting thing is all three of my children, they look like siblings, but they look different. Like my middle daughter is very light skinned. And so her experience is different than my son. And then my my first daughter looks very Ethiopian, and my middle daughter, she is like a culture sponge. Her best friend growing up was Chinese. So she started speaking a little Mandarin at five.
Shawna 10:58
Okay.
Dija 10:58
And then her next friend, and Middle School is Mexican. So she's speaking Spanish with her friend. And then they were really into Korean dramas. So then she's picking up Korean.
Dija 11:08
So you know, the experiences are different, and I have to just take it day by day and each child with what they need.
Shawna 11:17
Yeah.
Dija 11:18
And I think this next generation, it's so interesting. I had a student of film students, she's Nigerian, her friends are Arabic. So she, it's like, they're all exchanging words freely in their vocabulary now with each other.
Dija 11:31
And I'm like, What's it gonna look like in 30 years, with the next generations where they're just, it's different. It's, there's a free flowing and like, the girls are so excited, because my daughter is like, really accepting and appreciative of their culture and wants to learn. And, you know, my family, we've had to learn to learn their culture and traditions, so that we're respecting things because there's certain things that they can't do. So it's been a, it's, I've learned from my daughter, her freedom and joy, you know, and I think a lot of it's being a child just because I love my friend. So I'm going to do what I can to connect with my friend and respect my friend and appreciate her and vice versa. But I think it's something we have to be intentional about, you know, making sure that they understand their roots, and that they can experience that culture and integrate it into their identity, but also find their own identity, what they love, what they're passionate about what their dreams and hopes are in life. So I think my parents did a pretty good job, because it wasn't like this big announcement of "we have to do things with the culture". It's kind of just integrated into our life. You know?
Shawna 11:31
Love that.
Shawna 11:32
Can you tell me a little bit more about that? Because I heard you also say, there's things we can't do.
Dija 11:57
Oh, for the girls, friends, so the Muslim girls like can't be out. At a certain time. They can't be around boys, I see what you're saying. For her birthday party. For example, She wanted to invite some friends that were boys, but then she wanted those friends. So we had to figure out, okay, they can't come if they come and things like that. So that's what I meant.
Shawna 13:14
I gotcha. You know, there's a lot of people that kind of struggle with balancing different cultures. But as I hear you describe it, it just makes me think of planning a dinner party, and you take down everybody's dietary restrictions, right? Like you don't force people who are allergic to certain things to eat the certain things we make accommodations, or we plan something that everybody can enjoy. And I'm saying this, because we recently had a dinner party where we had somebody who's vegetarian, somebody else who is diabetic, and we had to think through that, okay, let's not make seven different meals. But what can we make that every person can enjoy? If we get to understand people's personal preferences, not even their personal preferences, but cultural traditions? Like just things about people? Can't we still, like enjoy time together without thinking, Oh, I now I can't do this thing, or I can't have this thing, right, we can still find ways to connect. And I love that your children at such a young age have done that and kind of reflecting on what you said, like where are we going to be? What's it going to be like in the future? You know, people who are multiracial who identify as multiracial are among the fastest growing population in the US and likely around the world as we are now quite a transient and mobile humankind, right, like people are moving about. We are not isolated and even people who are not moving about have access to things that even me growing up as a genetics kid did not have right like I didn't have internet stuff until I was in college. And people have access to learning about each other and seek stuff and exposing themselves to things that we never would have being so isolated like, flip I'm also from Alaska, like, I
15:00
I didn't get all the shows and all of those things, right. So talk about limitations. So I think now there's so much opportunity while there's a whole lot of stuff that makes technology not so nice, right? There's also this ability for people to connect in a way that we never have before. And so yeah, thinking about what we're going to be like, well, there is definitely the potential for it to be freakin amazing, as people, like your children, find connections with other folks and do that exchange. And it is not only through mutual respect, it seems like genuine interest. And like, I'm just gonna get to know these people, because I think they're cool. So why not learn the language? Why not learn their traditions? I think that's really awesome. What would you say, are probably the most important things that you want for your kids, or you want them to know, as they're growing up?
Dija 15:48
Well, what I want for my kids the most is for them to hear God's voice in their own life. And I talked to them a lot about that, because I can't be with them all the time. And so if they know which direction they're supposed to go by listening to God, who created them, and has a plan for them, I don't know if that's kind of like, the failsafe, I'm like, if I can't be with you, and you're going into danger, and you can listen to the still small voice within you saying, you know, "Don't go this way", or "go this way", or, you know, "this is who you are". Because I know that as they grow, they're going to have questions and things like that. And so that's what I really want for them. And to be able to understand that the voices and the noise around us, sometimes you have to unplug, and you have to be quiet. And so rest is a big thing we talk about in my house, I have multiple sclerosis, and my daughter has Hashimotos. And everyone's kind of had different autoimmune things. And so we can't just run, run run in my house. And I've had to kind of teach the kids over time, like, hey, check in with yourself, are you tired, I want them to be able to have the tools for self care. And yes, I want them to be happy and find their careers. But these are the tools that I want to send them out in the world with and to have a sense of who they are.
Dija 17:15
You know, it's very interesting. I taught at film camp this summer, and my group specifically were immigrant kids of color. And in the group, when we introduce each other, I talked to them, I said, you know, a lot of times it feels like you have to lead with your ethnicity, or where you're from and all that stuff. And I said, You, I want you to be free here, if that's not what you want to lead with telling us who you are. And so we kind of did it over the two weeks over and over again. And they told me it really meant a lot. Like what's important to you one girl is she loves to read. And one. Boy, he's crazy, but his nieces. And that's what they identify as important as who they are. Because so often didn't get that freedom, you know, you can ask a white guy, what, what are you and he says, I'm an engineer, but you asked me what am I? And all of a sudden, I feel like well, I kind of know what you're you're not asking that I'm a filmmaker, you're asking, you know, you don't look like everybody else. One of these things is not like the other. So what are you identify yourself. And so I want my kids to have a appreciation for their roots, but their personal story of where they come from, like the women, the strong women that they come from, and what they've overcome and who they are like what character traits are in them? Like, that's very important for them to know.
Shawna 18:43
Yeah, yeah. I think that's so great, Dija, because I think what you're describing in terms of this compulsion, or some feeling of obligation to talk about one's racial or ethnic background is pretty uniquely Western, specifically us. You talked earlier about your parents coming from places where they were part of the dominant culture, that wasn't the same situation that we have here in the US and some of the other sort of European countries that are similar here. Even though that in the United States, it's quite racially, ethnically, culturally diverse. In fact, there are far more black and brown people here than there are people who are racialized as White still, that whiteness is sort of the default, what people think of when I think of an American. And so I think that's why there's this feeling of obligation to lead with race or culture or ethnicity, which when you are somebody who is racially ambiguous or culturally ambiguous, all those things, there's this extra pressure because people can't just categorize you. You look like this. You must be from here, but blah, blah, blah, blah. In fact, if you go to the "Start Here" episode, I talked about that. There's like the questions that people ask quite literally one of them is what are you which how dehumanizing is that? Not Who are you? What are you? And then the where are you from? As if you can't be from here?
Dija 20:10
No, no, where are you really from?
Shawna 20:12
And that's exactly one of the questions asked in that very way. But what about your parents?
Dija 20:17
I'm from Chicago.
Shawna 20:18
Amen. Okay, right. And they just keep going because they're not satisfied until they find some other place that doesn't match them. So I love that you have given your students and your children the permission to share who they are based on who they are, as they're developing as human beings, not some criteria that's socially construct what we're supposed to be so
Dija 20:45
yeah, I think my parents did that for it was on one end, I wish that we had more conversations. But again, this is the 80s and 90s When I grew up, so we weren't having that as much. But I did appreciate the fact that it wasn't a big deal to have curry chicken. And then chicken curry. And then on Friday.
Shawna 21:07
Wait, and then what on Friday? Okay,
Shawna 21:11
yeah, pizza and blockbuster VHS, Blockbuster video, I worked at Blockbuster to
21:17
Yeah.
Dija 21:17
Yeah, that was the BEST. Pizza, and we went to pick out a movie a blockbuster. Those were good days, man.
Shawna 21:25
Wait, were you allowed to get the red movies? Because those were the expensive ones?
Dija 21:30
Probably not. I'm pretty sure. Oh, yeah. Knowing my dad who loves a deal. My dad once got 50% off a calendar, because it was June
Shawna 21:42
Hey - sounds logical. I can't use 50% of it.
Dija 21:50
Right. So that he got it. I was like, I walked away. And I was like, at first I was embarrassed. I think it was like he was right, hit us half the calendar. So to this day, sometimes we have like deal-offs. Like who got the best deal?
Shawna 22:07
That is funny. That's hilarious. I mean, I'm down with that dad may say to me. Ah, all right. So you talked a little bit about your kids and what you want for them, you know, and the premise of the show, as I mentioned really is a lot about belonging. In general, I would like to know what belonging means to you or for you, whether that's you personally, or whether that's as you think about your children. Talk to me about that?
Dija 22:38
Yes. So I used to think belonging as a younger person meant one thing, and so it's changed. But growing up, I just thought belonging meant finding people like somehow I was going to find someone with my ethnic background, and like I was culturally going to fit and all of this stuff. So I was only able to find groups that kind of supported part of my personality. Like I was a gymnast. And so I had a team, and we had gymnastics in common. Or when I finally got into theater, I felt like I belonged even more. And then growing up when I was very young, we lived in a new neighborhood. But there was a lot of immigrant people around us from India and the Middle East and Thailand and Italy. That was one time when I felt really like I belonged. But at that age, you're just looking at the other kid, like, Hey, be my friend. You know, dealing and you'll it's just like I was said about my daughter's like, Oh, that smells really good at your house. I want to try that. And it's okay, if I've never had it before. I want to try your food.
Shawna 23:43
I mean, I'm kind of like that now.
Dija 23:45
Yeah! Having the same, you know, fears. It's just like, This is life. This is what we do. These are my friends. It's ride bikes, and you know, hopscotch, double dutch, you know. Would you say?
Shawna 24:00
I said Foursquare
Dija 24:01
Foursquare...Oh yeah!
Shawna 24:04
I loved Foursquare.
Dija 24:06
I could never really get Foursquare, but I played, I played my best. But the truth is, it's almost like you'll never find the perfect mentor. It's just met, you find a mentor. And you have to be able to take what you learn and fit it to your life. That in itself is a skill. So recently, in my master's program, we had to read a book by bell hooks about belonging. And I loved how she approached things because she was a black girl who grew up in Appalachia, and she talks about how she had to learn how to create what belonging was around her. And it felt so empowering. When I read that. We had to write a paper about all the places in our life and how we felt and I started thinking, well, I felt like I belonged because I was around diverse people here when I was little, and I felt like I belonged here because I was around art. And so I realized over time, I'm just like learning about what it means to belong as a human. And that's natural. And it's not bad because it wasn't perfect. But now with my knowledge, I feel empowered to create that around myself.
Dija 25:14
Growing up, I always say My house is going to be a safe space, because the world is hard. And so in my house, it's okay to be silly. It's okay to express yourself, even if it's not perfect art and mess is okay, in my house, as long as you clean it up. I always be creative, like you'll hear music playing, and kids singing and paint and all kinds of stuff. I just, to me, that's makes me feel happy. And also, again, I'm gonna go to my faith and remember that I always belong to God. And I always welcome because the truth is, when I go into different spaces, I can't predict that I'll be welcome or accepted or whatever. Yeah, but I think that was the hugest thing about belonging is knowing I belong anywhere, because I have life and I'm on this earth. So I belong. But the problem of not belonging is when you feel like I need your approval to belong in this space. Yeah. And even if you have to fight and work through imposter syndrome, and all those things, but when you really get the fact you don't need anyone's approval to live your life, and do what you're supposed to do, and do what you know you're supposed to do, and just own it. That's pretty powerful.
Dija 26:32
One of my favorite quotes is "the most dangerous woman as a woman who doesn't need your approval".
Shawna 26:38
Oof!
Dija 26:38
Whoever that quote belongs to thank you for saying it. But I was like, daaaaang.
Amanda 26:45
I would even say, because I think the dangerous part is the part that maybe I'm like, but the most powerful woman is a woman who doesn't need your approval. Right? That's a sense of confidence right there.
27:00
Okay, so earlier, I bookmarked something that you said, I just love to ask you about it.
Dija 27:04
Okay.
Shawna 27:05
I think you said something along the lines of because I'm an immigrant, I had to do biomechanics. But I want to know more about Tell me more.
Dija 27:15
Okay, I was, it's kind of a joke. The stereotype with probably Asian immigrants is like math, science, or like, just in general immigrants, like the kid asked to be a doctor and a lawyer engineer, because of the desire for financial security for you know, coming to America. So my, my dad's an engineer, he went to Purdue to get his PhD, he has like three masters and like, it can seem really impressive. And he'll tell you, because he didn't want to get a job. So he can't go to school.
Dija 27:49
But I think that's funny because I've I've talked to other first generation kids who are like, they might be in the arts, but they have like an engineering degree too, because my dad was like, You need to have a backup. And you know what he was right. I worked in the wellness field for a while after school, and it paid the bills. And I was glad that I listened to him. But it was hard. I mean, I won't lie. Like, I started as an engineer, and I was like, I can't do this, I need to do art. And he was like, okay, but find something else.
28:21
Now, you know, what's so funny about that is when I first went to college, I was a music major. And I wanted to teach music, play music, I was a concert pianist, like I just loved this. I sang in three choirs in high school. So music was going to be part of my life one way or another. But then I was so worried about getting the job actually, that I changed my major to education. So I taught for about 16 years or so before moving into what I do now with consulting and specifically Dei. But guess what music is still a part of my life. Like, when I was teaching, I put on a musical every year with my, with my kids, either as a club, and I would do like a school musical, or I would do a class musical or both, because it was just my love for that it had to come out in some way. And now I like love karaoke, and I try to hand a mic to anybody who will accept it from me. And most people say no, but I'm like, Okay, I'll see myself, you know, whatever. When it's in you, it will manifest in some way or another and even thinking about diversity, equity inclusion, and the part that music plays. So I do not have a biomechanics degree, nothing engineer related, but I can understand what it is when you have the art of some kind that comes through. We might not make a whole lot of money, but we sure are gonna be happy living this life.
Dija 29:39
Yes,
Dija 29:39
Yes, yes. That's the same with my family. But I think it layers your work. You know, it makes it really unique. And I used to think that was a burden to like, Why do I have this science side and this other side, but it's like you it's just synthesis in this integration of something that make you come at it with such a unique perspective. I mean, I have a bit of an engineer mind. So when I do my film work, it's a problem solving. Yeah, engineering is problem solving and being a producer is problem solving totally can see that. Yeah. Yeah. Not a burden. It's a gift. It's a gift. Yeah.
Shawna 30:17
This has been an amazing conversation with you. I think that you are just a fascinating human being. And I'd love to stay in touch with you. How can other folks find you and learn more about what you do?
Dija 30:28
I am on Instagram at DJ Henry, or at the blue house.co Is my company's Instagram and then I have a newsletter if you're interested in storytelling and filmmaking, or you have a story you want to tell at dijahenry.com or the blue house.co. So okay, yeah.
Shawna 30:48
Awesome.
Dija 30:49
I like to hear people's stories. I love it. Yeah.
Shawna 30:54
Bring it y'all, you heard that that was an open invitation. So share your stories. I love this so much. Is there anything else that you'd like to leave us with? Before we close?
Dija 31:03
I just want to say thank you for this conversation. You know, every time we talk about things that are hard to talk about, or synthesize and put words to input language around it, it's so freeing. And so I appreciate this conversation. I appreciate the questions and the work you do and I'm excited for what to be doing next as you continue to share these conversations and the wisdom the things you learn in working. So thanks for sharing
Shawna 31:31
My pleasure. And thank you too. I couldn't do this without guests like you and I learned from every person that I get to speak with so I treasure it because that is how we continue to grow. So, this has been fantastic. I'll be following up with you. Maybe I got a story or two!
Dija 31:50
Okay, I'm ready!
Shawna 31:51
Take care bye bye
Shawna 32:00
Well, folks, that brings us to the end of another our True Colors episode. I hope that you got a lot out of that. Deja is super fascinating. And if you haven't started tell Well, you know who to reach out to. If you're like me, and in the northern hemisphere, days are getting shorter, and the weather is getting a little bit chillier as we near the end of 2022. Unbelievably we are already nearing the end of season four of our true colors as well, as they say time flies. That doesn't mean that I want to stop hearing from you though, you can always reach out to me at true colors dei.com Especially if you're interested in exploring some ideas around belonging in your workplace. In the meantime, be safe out there y'all. Please share smile with someone and when you get the chance. Find a way to make someone feel welcome. Love you. I'll talk to you soon
Jason 32:59
you've been listening to our True Colors
