Daughter of the Moon Goddess

This month we read and review Daughter of the Moon Goddess by Sue Lynn Tan. Like all of our reviews, the first part is spoiler free.

Here's a little about Daughter of the Moon Goddess:

Growing up on the moon, Xingyin is accustomed to solitude, unaware that she is being hidden from the feared Celestial Emperor who exiled her mother for stealing his elixir of immortality. But when Xingyin’s magic flares and her existence is discovered, she is forced to flee her home, leaving her mother behind.

Alone, powerless, and afraid, she makes her way to the Celestial Kingdom, a land of wonder and secrets. Disguising her identity, she seizes an opportunity to learn alongside the emperor's son, mastering archery and magic, even as passion flames between her and the prince.

To save her mother, Xingyin embarks on a perilous quest, confronting legendary creatures and vicious enemies across the earth and skies. But when treachery looms and forbidden magic threatens the kingdom, she must challenge the ruthless Celestial Emperor for her dream—striking a dangerous bargain in which she is torn between losing all she loves or plunging the realm into chaos.

We hope you enjoy the episode!

Do you have a book you'd like us to review on this show? Send us an email at badassliteraturesociety@gmail.com

If you don't already, follow us on Instagram and Facebook

Art by Justin Miller Design

Check us out here!

Transcript

Welcome back to the Badass Literature Society where badasses come together to rate and review novels recommended by you. Hi. I'm Michael. This is Barbara. And I'm Lauren.

This month, we read Daughter of the Moon Goddess by Sue Lynn Tan. Sue Lynn Tan is the author of Daughter of the Moon Goddess and Heart of the Sun Warrior, a romantic fantasy duology inspired by the legend of Chang Yi, the Chinese Moon Goddess. Her books will be translated into 16 languages have been nominated for several awards and are also USA Today and Sunday Times bestsellers. She was born in Malaysia and studied in London and France before moving to Hong Kong with her family. Her love for stories began with a gift from her father, her first compilation of fairy tales from around the world.

After devouring every fable she could find in the library, she discovered fantasy books, spending much of her childhood lost in magical worlds. When not writing or reading, she enjoys exploring the hills, lakes, and temples around her home. And you can find Sue Lynn Tan on Instagram at @SueLynnTan or on her website, which is suelynntan.com. Barbara, do you wanna tell us a little about this book? 

This was originally published on January 11, 2022. It's considered high fantasy/romantasy. That's a thing now, apparently, and coming of age. It is 503 pages, and it currently has a 4.11 on Goodreads. Nothing on Barnes and Noble that I could find. A 4.5 on Amazon and a 4.6 on Audible.

Also, I wasn't sure if it's considered adult or YA because I was getting mixed signals from, like, all the websites. So at this point, I don't know. I'm leaving that off. Anywho, as of this podcast recording, it has been nominated for the Goodreads Choice Awards for fantasy and best debut in 2022 and the Dublin Literary award in 2022 and won the ALA Alex award in 2023. So we think it's important for readers to know what, if any, representation is in the books we read.

So for this book, all characters are POC characters. There are no LGBTQ characters and no characters with disabilities. Alright. And, Lauren, do you wanna give us a brief synopsis before we jump into our discussion? Sure.

So it's basically a badass novel about a girl who grows up on the literal moon. She's forced to pretend she is not in fact a badass for most of the novel only to reveal her true badassery later on. I love that. Will that suffice, or shall I read the actual back to reference? You know, I I think that suffice.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's that is a very, very concise to the point. And on brand for all of us. I'll read the back of the book just in case people didn't listen to our last episode to get the actual synopsis.

Okay. Growing up on the moon, Xingyan is accustomed to solitude, unaware that she is being hidden from the feared celestial emperor who exiled her mother for stealing his elixir of immortality. But when Xing Yin's magic flares and her existence is discovered, she is forced to flee her home, leaving her mother behind. Alone, powerless, and afraid, she makes her way to the Celestial Kingdom, a land of wonder and secrets. Disguising her identity, she seizes an opportunity to learn alongside the emperor's son, mastering archery and magic even as passion flames between her and the prince.

To save her mother, Xing Xingyan embarks on a perilous quest, confronting legendary creatures and vicious enemies across the earth and skies. But when the treachery looms and forbidden magic threatens the kingdom, she must challenge the ruthless celestial emperor for her dream, striking a dangerous bargain in which she is torn between losing all she loves or plunging into the realm or plunging the realm into chaos. A captivating debut fantasy inspired by the legend of Chang'e, the Chinese moon goddess, in which a young woman's quest to free her mother pits her against the most powerful immortal in the realm. Daughter of the moon goddess begins an enchanting romantic duology, which weaves ancient Chinese mythology into a sweeping adventure of immortals and magic, where love lies with honor, dreams are fraught with betrayal, and hope emerges triumph. That was so much more poetic than mine, but I still like mine better.

Agreed. Agreed. So what did you think about daughter of the moon goddess? And remember, no spoilers. So, surprisingly, it took me a bit to really get into this book.

I'm so used to having, like, a massive ensemble cast of characters and fantasies. And so I feel like I was missing that in the beginning for this one as I really enjoy that aspect of fantasy novels, which is funny because I know a lot of people like, some people don't, but I do. But once I got over that, I thoroughly enjoyed this book. The time jumping was a little jarring at times, though, for me. And then at the beginning, the similes was a little much for me.

But after I got used to it, I thoroughly enjoyed the book, and then it was just like bam, bam, bam, couldn't put it down type thing. So I also really enjoyed this book. I wouldn't say it took me a little while to get into it. I I don't think, I mind the ensemble versus limited cast as much. But, but I I did enjoy it.

I really liked the story. I loved all the characters and the developments that we got, and the the time jumping was was jarring just because there there's no and I I both listened and read, and and there there's no indication that there's a jump in time. It just happens. And so you've got to try to figure out in your head, like, hold on. Are we, like, 6 months ahead?

Are we, like, years ahead? Because these are celestial beings that live forever. So so that was a little bit tricky, but, but other than that, I I really did enjoy the story. It does mention the time jump, but it's, like, impasse. And she's like, oh, and then the months bled into months weeks Yes.

Years. So it's like, okay. It's like, it's very casual. So, like, if you're it's not like certain books where they say, like, 6 months later, you can look at the chop. You know?

Or, like, they make it very obvious. It's like in passing her mentioning these months weeks years have gone by. And if you're not paying attention or, like, you're not really zoned in, you're like, the what? Just what year is it? Do you know?

That describes I I mean, I I don't even think that counts, though. Like, it's it's that's very it's a it was a very vague labeling of passing time. Like like you said, I prefer when it's if it's gonna be a jump that to have, like, that thing that's Yes. 6 months later. Well, I'm a slut for for a timing of things.

I like to know. And, obviously, for this book, it didn't really matter because, like you said, these selectrals people are, like, immortal. They're literally immortal. Like, only a few things can kill them type thing, but time is not the thing that can kill them. So it's like Right.

It's not that big of a deal, but, like, for someone who likes to keep track of things, it is a big deal for me. So it's something I definitely noticed. Yeah. Overall, I enjoyed it. The fantasy elements that the author chose, I thought were really cool.

The pacing was decent. I didn't feel like it dragged on too much. I enjoyed the characters. I enjoyed the world building. I also found the time jumping to be a little frustrating, but I feel like I have this problem with a lot of audiobooks.

And it could just be because that's how my brain works. I don't know. Because I really like past present. Like, I like novels that, you know, jump back into the past, and then we get some insight or those sorts of things. I just when it's an audiobook and this is helpful because you guys physically read it.

Right? I did. Michael is it in. I do both. It's fun.

We we literally cover all Yes. Facets. Like, I'm pure just book. Michael does both, and you're just pure audio. Right?

So I'm glad, I guess, not glad that you had the same issue, Barbara, but that it wasn't just an audiobook thing because I feel like sometimes my, like, confusion happens because it's just audio, but it's good to know that it wasn't super clear in the physical book either. Mm-mm. Because, yeah, I just find it it's harder to keep that stuff straight if you don't have a physical copy. But, apparently, with this, even if I had a physical copy, I would still struggle with that. So and, again, like Barbara said, I think time is not as relevant in this celestial realm or whatever, but I like to, like, have a chronological timeline of things happening.

And so I felt a little disoriented at times when I would maybe get distracted with one of my kids or, like, I'd be doing the dishes and, like, I missed, like, a couple sentences. I'm like, wait. What what is happening now? I have to, like, put the reverse 30 seconds. Reverse 30 seconds, like, 5 times to, like, figure out what hap what's happened.

Years have passed in the blink of an eye. Yeah. I I agree with you on that one, Lauren. I definitely more so, I think, than any audiobook in recent memory when I was listening, there were multiple occasions where I had to, like, be like, wait. Hold on.

Yes. And, like, tap like you just said, like, tap back and feel like feel like a little bit. Hang on. Hold on. What did I miss something?

And then it's like, I listened back. It's like, no. I didn't. They just didn't say. Cool.

Cool. Just just to keep it, like so I I believe, if I'm not mistaken, she literally is 13 or 14 at the start of the book, and she's in her twenties. It's not a little like, I I would say early twenties at the end of this one. So, like, that's all that's a lot to cover in in those times. You know?

So it's like, what is happening? Alright. So like always, we're not gonna go into our individual ratings right now. You're gonna have to wait for that. But our group score for this one was an 8.416 repeating out of 10.

Oopsie, jeez. I hate I hate y'all. I did not do a decimal, so I'm the only one that didn't do a decimal. It's true. It's it's it would it's Barbara.

We'll talk about it later. It's you too, Michael. Half decimal, if if we stick with half point point point 5, it does not make it this messy as we You know It doesn't matter. We'll talk about it later. Now it's not the time.

Rules to be like that, then you need to put set ground rules. Because if not, I'm a take an inch in the mile. Now is not the time. Would you recommend this book? Yes.

I would. I think it's a book that is probably easier to recommend in some other fantasy books that we've read. Like like I I said, like, the the story is fascinating. The characters are really interesting. I think it's one that you could safely recommend to people outside of the the fantasy realm.

Like, for example, if we pretend that we read that I read this not for a podcast and it was like and Lauren wasn't part of it. Lauren is traditionally not a fantasy reader, but I would have recommended this. I think this is one I would recommended this. I think this is one I would recommend to someone like that. I think what and turns out you did enjoy the book, but I think it would have been a good recommendation.

So yeah. I think that it's it's really something I'd recommend to pretty much anybody. I can't think of people that I wouldn't recommend it to. Yeah. I mean, I would recommend it.

Not maybe universally like Michael said, but definitely to my friends that read fantasy. And I think yeah. I don't know. It's definitely got that. I I feel like when Barbara was telling us about the book that the the genre was actually high fantasy, romantic.

And I think like, when I think high fantasy, I think, like, Brandon Sanderson. So I didn't think this was, like, maybe as high fantasy. I don't know if there's, like, tiers. This was maybe, like this wasn't, like, top shelf fantasy. It was, like, mid shelf.

Triage of fantasy. High fantasy. But either way, I think, like, my friends that read romantacy, we're talking, like, what is that? 4th ring is a very big one that blew up. So that I have friends that really like, like, that fantasy, and I feel like this is probably a little too woo woo for that group.

Made better. This is I liked it, but they some people that, like like, I don't know, like, that side type of fantasy would not, I feel like, maybe enjoy the higher fantasy. But I also feel like this isn't, like, we high fan I don't know. There's gotta be tiers or something because this isn't, like, Brandon Sanderson fantasy. This is, like, somewhere in between.

I feel like this is more digestible high fantasy. Yes. It is much easier. The world I mean, You high fantasy. It's not, but it's not Disney We don't know if it's You because it yeah.

Like, 1 Barnes and Noble's had it in You, and then the other one that we went to was literally in the old the adult fantasy section. And if you Google it, it literally some places say You and other people say adult. So it's very weird. Like, it's in that in between. I don't know.

I felt like it definitely had some high fantasy esque elements, but I didn't feel like it was as difficult to, I don't know, like, comprehend not comprehend, but, like, keep track of or keep up with or whatever as some of the high fantasy we've read. Right. I would recommend it to fantasy people. So, yeah, I I would as well. Like, the world is super interesting.

The powers are amazing. The main character is definitely, I feel like, toeing the line of a morally gray esque character, which I love because I love morally gray queen. I do. Love love me some morally gray characters. I was only confused of, like, we already mentioned whether this is considered You or not.

Like, I I found conflicting, but it I don't it to me, it doesn't matter, but I know to some people it might, like would I recommend this to, like, a 14 year old? Probably. Maybe not younger than that, but, like, it be it there's no, like, it's not 4th wing where I believe there's There's a couple sex scenes in 4th wing. Sex scenes. Like, there's nothing like that, and they're just like yeah.

It's clean romance. You know? Like, there's making out. That's pretty much about it. You know?

So it That's highly inappropriate. But, like, the because it it is kind of a war book in the sense, like there is fighting, that is pretty, I would say, decently graphic. Not like super graphic and, like, blood splitter not over the place, but, like, I would say that's a decent graphic. So it's just kind of I don't I'm not really sure where it falls, like Lauren was mentioning. For the romantic of it, I don't think there's a lot of yes.

There is romance, but it's not the central point of the novel where I feel like I don't know. I haven't read 4th Wing, but I feel like that the romance in that book is kinda maybe center stage. This one's not. It has it's in it, but it's not the main thing Yeah. For the character.

You know? The fourth wing is slightly more romantisty. Like, the romance part is more a little more prominent. Yes. Yeah.

And it's definitely not I I wouldn't call that a a romance book, though. No. Like, I there's there's no book. But, I mean, that's why they've made this genre called romantasy where it's where it's romance with the fantasy aspect, but it's not your traditional just romance novel. The difference between, I guess, fourth wing in this or even just like a true romantasy versus this book is that I feel like romantasy caters to a certain, like, people read that, and they're looking for, like, sex and, like, spicy and, like, love story with the romantic or or with the fantasy flare.

And this one is more, like, fantasy with a romantic flare. Yes. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed.

Yeah. I mean, I think if you just make it like like a movie, like, 4th wing would be r rated. This would probably be PG 13. I don't know. Would you?

Because I don't probably. Yeah. I was gonna say the violence, you could kinda I mean, technically, I thought I don't know what the rating, like, criteria are for, like, gore and violence, though. Yeah. I don't either.

Because, I mean, honestly, if you think about it, hunger game should have been an r rated movie with the gore and the violence in that book, but, you know, here we are. Anyways Anyway, for those of you leaving us now, don't forget to give us a rating if you like us, and make sure you're following us on both Facebook and Instagram at badasslippod is our handle. We wanna hear from you. If you got a book you want us to read on a future episode, let us know. Now Lauren is going to give us a short preview of what we've got coming up next month.

We will be reading The Women by Kristin Hannah. An intimate portrait of coming of age in a dangerous time in an epic tale of a nation divided. Women can be heroes. When 20 year old nursing student, Frances Frankie McGrath, hears these words, it is a revelation. Raised in the sun drenched idyllic world of Southern California and sheltered by her conservative parents, she has always prided herself on doing the right thing.

But in 1965, the world is changing, and she suddenly dares to imagine a different future for herself. When her brother ships out to serve in Vietnam, she joins the army nurse corps and follows his path. As green and inexperienced as the men sent to Vietnam to fight, Frankie is overwhelmed by the chaos and destruction of war. Each day is a gamble of life and death, hope and betrayal, friendships run deep and can be shattered in an instant. In war, she meets and becomes one of the lucky, the brave, the broken, and the lost.

But war is just the beginning for Frankie and her veteran friends. The real battle lies in coming home to a changed and divided America, to angry protesters, and to a country that wants to forget Vietnam. The Women in the is the story of 1 woman gone to war, but it shines a light on all women who put themselves in harm's way and whose sacrifice and commitment to their country has too often been forgotten. A novel about deep friendships and bold patriotism, The Women is a richly drawn story with a memorable heroine whose idealism and courage under fire will come to define an era. K.

I'm excited for this one. Remember the second part of this episode is gonna be an in-depth look at daughter of the moon goddess. So if you do wanna read it and you don't want anything spoiled, stop listening now and come back and listen to the rest when you are done. Nom nom is fresh dog food made by real people who really care. They're purposeful and enthusiastic about giving your dog the best food for them and their health so they can thrive and be their best.

Nom nom delivers fresh food made with whole ingredients backed by veterinary science, And science tells us that dog health starts in the bowl. So improving their diet is one of the best ways to help them live a long happy life. All you have to do is order, pour, and serve. Barbara and I have 2 dogs, Luna, a husky, and Quinnie, a shih tzu mix. Our 2 dogs love the beef mash recipe.

But to be honest, I'd say Quinnie's favorite is the turkey fare. She drools when that comes out of the fridge. Yes. I know Luna. I'm gonna tell them about that right now.

Luna is an extremely picky eater and always has been. She usually takes forever to warm up to new food, but not with nom nom. She dove in immediately. Both dogs seem to have more energy, and Luna's stools were no longer soft. Your dog's health starts in the gut.

A better diet means softer coats, more energy, better breath, and smaller, more consistent stools. Your dog can't tell you if they're healthy, but you can tell when their health improves. It's the easiest way to take the guesswork out of feeding your dog the best. Nom nom meals are pre portioned for your dog's exact caloric needs. Board certified vet nutritionist are kind of a big deal and Nomnom has 2 on staff that work extensively to ensure everything gets sent out is the very best for your dog's livelihood.

So how does NomNom work? You tell them about your pup, age, breed, weight, allergies, and protein preferences. Then they tailor a specific amount of individually packaged Nom nom meals and send them straight to you. Store the meals in the freezer or fridge until it's meal time. They'll give you specific instructions on how to transition your dog foods like kibble to always fresh nom nom for best results.

Watch your dog clean their dishes, dance for dinner, and overall thrive. Ready to make the switch to fresh? Order nom nom today. Go to a link in the description of this episode and then use our referral code badass lit. That's badasslit, and get 50% off your first order plus free shipping.

Plus, NomNom comes with a money back guarantee. If your dog's tail isn't wagging within 30 days, NomNom will refund your first order. No fillers. No nonsense. Just nom nom.

Now for those of you sticking around for the spoilers, here we go. So like always, we're gonna start this half of the podcast by determining who wins the badass character award. I think without any of us speaking, it's pretty obvious, but I will go ahead and go through our nominations anyway. Barbara, who is your nomination? Mine is obviously Shing Yin.

So, yeah, I also picked Shing Yin. She's really the only I mean, not the only character in the book, but she's the only, like, main character. There aren't really Well, yeah. It's her point of view. And she's definitely a badass for lots of reasons.

So, yeah, she definitely gets my nomination. I also voted for Xingyan for obvious reasons. Xingyan, you win. Congratulations. You're the badass character.

Yay. Speaking of characters, let's talk about some of the, the the core cast of characters before we jump into our main discussion. So the first one is obviously, Xinyan. Which one of you would like to discuss our main character? Sure.

I'll jump in. So this book is written first person perspective with hers. She grows up in the moon from, like, Lord says, she's the daughter of the moon goddess, Lily, the book title. It's, and, she I know. She's a surprise baby.

No one knows about her. So she gets dumped out of the moon and then falls into the celestial kingdom where she befriends Liwei and grows up with him learning about magic, the history, that kind of stuff, archery. She becomes a badass archery person. She falls in love with him but can't be with him because he's the prince. Shocker.

So then she joins the army and fights a bunch of badass stuff, badass scenes. And, then she kinda starts falling in love with someone else, the captain Wen Chi. And then we go through that story, and then there's some dragons and the end. I don't wanna I I was told to call for a podcast Yay. That no.

I'm just kidding. Yeah. We have to The book actually comes to a conclusive end. Like, you her whole goal in life was to free her mother because she's imprisoned in the moon and can't leave. And she, at the end of this book, actually does that just that.

She completes that. Yep. And then she gets into some before then and meets some really cool bad characters that were really cool. I like the bad characters in this book. It makes you really hate them or, like, love to love them type thing.

So I don't know. That's that's her. She's Yeah. Brash. She's A badass.

Yes. Yes. I she's very flawed. Like, she's a bit self centered at times. She starts I don't know.

She's just there's a lot of, like, when you typically think of your stereotypical hero in fantasy novels, that's not her. Like, that's not her at all. Like, she's very single tracked minded. Like, she has a goal and she doesn't care who she's gonna step on kind of to complete that goal, which is not a bad thing. But, like, she has her flaws and stuff, but she is also very endearing.

Like, she's kind of, like, childlike in the sense that, like, she didn't grow up in the celestial kingdom, so she really doesn't know what's going on there. And but she's yeah. I really enjoyed her character. So let's see. Next character is Li Hue.

Li Hue is the prince that, Baru was talking about before. I would say if anybody is, like, another main character, it's probably him because we get more, quote, unquote, like, screen time with him. But he is the prince of the celestial kingdom. He is one of Xinyan's love love interests as well. He genuinely I mean, he seems like a genuinely, like, nice person, which is not generally what you get in a lot of these books when you talk about the the literant positions of royalty, or Yeah.

He's, like, the complete opposite of what you would think. Right? Yeah. He's he's literally the complete opposite of his dad, the emperor. He he meets her in a situation where he's she doesn't know that he's the prince.

She thinks he's just a regular person. They, they he likes the way that she talks to him, essentially, because nobody else in his life has ever, like, told him how it is, and really, like, been truthful and given the the cold the cold hard truth, we'll say, about different things. And and he likes that she talks to him the way that anybody would talk to a regular person, not the flattery and BS that he gets, in his from his position. So so, yeah, I mean, that's that's that's leeway. He obviously is a badass in his own right.

He is a very skilled military person as well. And, yeah, that's that's Li Wei. We'll talk about it a little bit more later, but that's a a brief synopsis of him. I liked Li Wei. General Zhongyun is the general of the celestial army.

He takes a notice of, Xinyan when she starts to become a skilled archer. He's very impressed by her abilities and how quickly she learns how to do those different things as well. And he approaches her at one point and was like, hey. You know, when you're done being the companion to the prince, you should really consider joining the army. You could you could do some really important things, and that's kinda plants a seed into her mind that, that leads to the entire part 2 of the book where she is, the badass first archer in his army.

But, yeah, that's that is general Xianyun. So now, Lauren, you can talk about captain Wenxie. Wenxie is the other love interest of Xinyin and ends up being kind of a bad bad dude. Kind of? A very bad Kind of?

A very It too is a prince, but for the The demon realm. The demon realm. Prince. Surprise. Which sounds very friendly and innocuous.

I'm sure it's not scary. I feel like we've got the demon role painted in a bad light because it's just Celestials. So I'm just gonna just gonna say that. You know? Yeah.

Like, if you kick me in the corner, I'm gonna go, like, creep a rat on you type thing too. You know? That's fair. That's fair. Yeah.

I definitely feel like you don't realize who he is or I guess his the dimensions or the depth of his, not his badness until later on. And we have a question later that kind of addresses him more. But even in the end, she's still like, oh, who do I love? And I'm like, really, bitch? But whatever.

I mean, so he's your bad boy, but she doesn't realize he's a bad like, he's the the captain, like, the most celebrated captain in the celestial army and surprise, he's not even select I mean, he is a celestial. He's just not like, they got broken off type of thing. That was confusing. But, yeah, he's a double agent. Maybe Xing Yin just really likes the color red.

Oh, red flags. Yes. All red flags. All red flags. I'll do red.

So so that's captain Wenxie, also known as prince of the demon realm. 1 of the princes. 1 of the, yeah, the second son. Let's see. Barbara, would you like to talk about Xu Qiao?

She's very minor, and I wish we got more of her, but she is the only other friend that, Xinyan has outside of Liyue. Because, like, her and Liyue were friends before they kinda got into the romantic relationship aspect of their relationship. But, yeah, she's she is a I don't know what her status is in the army, but she's in the army in the celestial kingdom. And she's just yeah. She is Xinyin Xinyin's only friend.

She's cool. I really like her. I hope we get more of her in the second book. This is what I was talking about as for the ensemble cast. Like, we get a few instances of her in the book, but it's not like a lot.

So it's kind of like so much time has happened, so we're just assuming that they became friends out of stuff. We don't really get to see that, but, like, she has her back, and she's really cool. I love her. I want more of her. That's that's about it.

Alright. So the next character on our list is the moon goddess herself, Chang'e. And she is a, honestly, a pretty minor character in the book because we see her a little bit at the very beginning. We know that she's been, I guess, not banished from the celestial ground, but she's in she's imprisoned in her home on the moon, and she's she's not allowed to leave anymore. And people aren't also aren't allowed to visit her.

So, yeah, it's, it's you know, she's she lives a pretty rough life. She has made the best fit though with her daughter and, their, I guess, a servant, I guess, ping pinger attendant. I would say servant. I guess maybe servant's not the right whole but, yeah, she's the she's the the person that her daughter spends the entire book trying to free. I guess the the only thing we'd really her mom.

It is her mom. The only way I guess we could really talk about that with her is that so her the main character, Xinyan's dad, did a really badass thing and killed some things that were fighting the Celestial Empire, and the emperor gave him an they were both mortals. And the emperor gave her dad the immortality. Elixir. Elixir of mortality to become a celestial.

And she, the moon goddess, took it instead to save her daughter that was, she was pregnant with at the time. And that's why she's in prison because she was not supposed to be the one that drank the elixir of mortality. But, anyway That's that's the whole mythology of the the Chinese moon goddess. Like, that that's the story, and she incorporated this to make this book. Gotcha.

So if you literally, you can go Google the moon goddess, Chinese moon goddess mythology, and her story will pop up. Good to know. I did not know that. So thank you for sharing. Mhmm.

Mhmm. Final character, I guess, characters, the emperor and the empress, the parents of Li Hue. Barbara, do you wanna talk about them as a combo? I mean, do you want me to they're crappy humans. I don't or celestials in their case.

I don't like them. They're very sus, especially the empress. Like, she is not a nice human. She's super jealous. She she's just awful.

And you don't really get too much of the emperor. You just hear about him until the very end type type thing, and then you see him and he's just as bad as his wife, to be honest. You learn some damning, you learn some damning evidence about them. He is super sus because he's trying to he was trying to grab get the dragons to, I think, rule all of the realms if you ask me. He wanted to control all of them.

I think correctly. Xinyan foiled his plans and, got freaking almost died because of that because he's yeah. No. They're they're bad people. I think it's funny because, like, this book doesn't have, like, a set bad guy.

It's just, like, bad enemies happening and stuff, but we don't have a big bad yet. But I think the big bad is going to be if you ask me, I think it's gonna be them. And we're supposed to be led to believe that it's the the demon kingdom, but, like, he's the one who banished. He put the rules on the he banished the dragons. He put the rules on them.

He banished the, quote, unquote, people from the demon realm because of their powers because they have mind powers. That's their magic. And so I don't know. I think there's suss or something going on with them. That's them.

They're awful awful celestials if you ask. They're absolutely way. They're they're the, I guess, the the difference between the two of them is that the the emperor is your traditional, like, bad guy politician. Like, he he wants power. He wants to be in control.

Whereas I think the empress is just, like, genuinely an evil human being. Like, she she gave off, like, evil stepmother from Cinderella vibes. Yeah. She does give you a lot of color. Bad person just to be a bad person at times to people.

Like, I I don't know. He he has his own I mean, but if you have a husband that was, like, canoodling with a bunch of other cocky buys, wouldn't you be a bitch too? I mean, I would be like Well w t f Quit your job as empress. You know? Stop living the whole life.

No. Especially if you promise this other lady, like, hey, I'm just gonna get married to her, but I promise, like, she's gonna die off or something bad is gonna happen to her, and then you could be my empress. Like, hello. I would be pissed off too. My husband, I would be a sour bitch to everyone as well.

Like, what's his reason for being a dick? None. No excuse. Exactly. That's the emperor and the empress, Liwei's parents.

Moving off from there, let's get into our first discussion question. First one is, do you have a favorite world building element? If so, why is it the dragons? Or in the unlikely event that it's not the dragons, what else is it? So I really enjoyed the whole magic system, honestly.

The ability to turn your hearing off, like, the Xinyan has, so that she could find peace in, like, the mind control situation. In general, that would be a game changer. I would turn it off all the time, in the car, like, for the I don't wanna talk to you right now. Turn it off. I I joke that, like, if I had, like, one of those limousine dividers for, like, my children where I could, like, see them, but not, like, hear their their screaming, that would be great.

So this would be really useful. Even though I could just turn, like, one ear off or, like, turn it down. The, that would be a game changer. Anyway, thought that was cool. The dragons were amazing.

Also, riding an octopus into battle, like, what kind of badassery are we dealing with here? I wasn't sure in that scene whether to laugh or be afraid. So It was both. I'm scared and impressed. Right.

So I I just said I cackled when I read this because, I mean, obviously, I love dragons. I'm a dragon whore. But, yes, I was excite excited at their appearance. I was hoping we would get them because, like, in part 2 so the book is split into 3 parts and then, like, 3 parts of her life. And part 2, like, it's mentioned that the dragons are there, but they only appear in part 3.

And I was like, yes, dragons more. And I really enjoyed it when we did get to see them. But outside of the dragons, I would have to say the magic system was really cool. It's not super complex, but it's just interesting on how, like, the checks and balances of how it works. And, of course, like, it would be so cool to, like, shoot fire arrows.

You know? Like, they use, like, their it's it's it's like their essence. And if they use too much of it, bad things can happen, and that's how they lose their or immortality and all this other stuff. But, yeah, I thought it was really, really cool. I thought, so I I agree.

I I enjoy the magic system. I I saw some similarities, between this book's magic system and, Mistborn's magic system, in the sense that, like, there are some characters like Xing Yan who can control multiple elements, and then there are some that only, like, could use 1, which reminded me of the Mistborn because they can use all of the metals in that that universe, and there's some people that can only use 1. So there are some similarities there. I also love the dragons. I thought they were very cool.

My favorite part of the book between the three parts was that the middle part where we got all, like, her badass, like, military adventures where she's, like, you know, taking down monsters and all sorts of cool stuff. So so, yeah, my favorite world building element, I guess, was I guess it would be the magic system. I enjoyed how how they use that to kinda to do that. But I also I really enjoyed the fact that instead of it just being a story about this girl who is an attendant to the emperor or the attendant to the prince, like, she goes out and has her own, like, big adventure in part 2. That was that was really cool.

Also, I have to say I I I laughed out loud in part 1 when she's, like, auditioning to be the attendant, and she has to brew tea. I was like, wait. Are we is this is this that is this that book we read, the, Magic Steeped in Poison? But it was just a very brief scene, but it it reminded me of that because that's obviously, that was a big part of that book. But but, yeah, that's that's where I'm at.

And then when I also laughed at this question, Lauren Lauren wrote the question for those of you that are listening, and it it made all all of us me and Barbara laugh when we read it because it's if so, why is it dragons? I mean, the dragons were cool. Like, I liked how anyways, I can go off. I, welcome to my TED talk about dragons. Alright.

Then the rest of the podcast, Lauren and I will just mute ourselves, and Barbara can talk about dragons. Let's see. Next question. Xinyan refers to her father saving the world as a great honor and a terrible burden. Why?

What is the true story of Xinyan's father slaying the sunbirds that threatened to destroy the world, and what role did the celestials play in this story? So I'd say because saw because some saw him as a hero, obviously, mostly the mortals because he saved the mortal. It was the mortal realm that was in danger. But it also put a target on his back, aka empress Bish looking at Chew because these sunbirds were her brothers and sisters, and he he murdered them. So the, the, the story is that the, essentially the dumb emperor was 2 chicken shit of his wife and didn't order them to be stopped aka the didn't order the sunburst to be stopped before they got it out of hand, and so then made immortal, aka Xinyan's father, take care of it and gave him, like, a cool special bow to do, like, an ice bow, awesome, to take care of it so he wouldn't incur her wrath.

Those 2 real winners, let me tell you. Okay? That's essentially what happened. That's how the got involved was it was their issue. He left them keep having their thing, then it turned into a bigger issue.

Oh, no. Mortal, you deal with it. You have the consequences of my wife hitting you and your whole bloodline. And, and I'll just sit here on my little throne and look pretty. That's essentially what happened.

So I just wanna point out here, this is the empress' family that she came from. She's not Phoenix Kingdom. She's not an evil woman because her husband is an asshole. She's an evil woman because her whole flipping family is evil. Got murdered, essentially.

Because they're they're they but they got murdered because they're doing bad stuff. It's not like they're, like, out, like, like, woo hoo. We're healing the sick. Oh my god. Arrow's.

Like, no. They were doing horrible things. She's a horrible person because her family anyway. Well, okay. Well, well, this is yeah.

But, yes, there's different kingdoms. She's from the evil sort of kingdom. I mean, I'd say he he's definitely seen as a hero. I think at the end of the day, the emperor probably also saw him as a hero because that's why he gave the elixir of immortality. And the emperor also is a smart enough politician to realize that the sunbirds needed to be put down.

Like Barbara said, he's just afraid of his evil wife. And Evil strong word. Didn't didn't wanna do it. But, as far as what role the celestials play in the story, it's I don't think it's ever confirmed outright, but it's it's definitely heavily implied that the celestials provided, Xinyan's father with some, superpowered weapons, that, that he didn't that he didn't have. So I I would say that's how the Celestials got involved.

I think the emperor recognized that he couldn't outright, like, assign someone to go kill his wife's family because of his wife. But I think that he, kind of, under the table, like, sent people to provide magic weapons to this mortal so that this mortal was able to kill the sunbirds and, and do what needed to be done. So I that that's that's my interpretation as far as what happened. Yeah. I feel like, I literally put on my notes that I needed Barbara to answer this one because her answer was gonna be mic drop worthy, so I don't really have anything to add.

Alright. So next question then. How do Liwei and Xinyan struggle to be themselves with others and have close friends? In what ways are they the perfect study companion for each other? So it's a good question.

I I think that they, for different reasons, struggle to be themselves. So I think Lee Wei is constantly he's frustrated with his not necessarily his position, but I think he doesn't like the way that people treat him. Because when you're in a position of power and you are, in his case, like a prince, you would constantly feel like no one is really ever being genuine with you. You would constantly wonder, like, do these people like me because of me, or are they just trying to get, you know, get close with someone who's in a position of power and is one day gonna be the emperor. And so because of that, he struggles to find meaningful friendships and meaningful relationships.

And I think that's why he and, Xinyan from his perspective are the perfect study companions and friends because they meet and their relationship begins when she has no idea who he is. And and he likes that. And it's implied that he kind of does the, the princess Jasmine thing often where he he leaves, the, you know, his his palace or whatever and goes out into the, the villages to to have these interactions and even though he's not supposed to. But, so I I think in that from his perspective, that's why. I think from Xinyan's perspective, you know, she grew up in a very isolated environment where, like, she didn't have the opportunity to make friends.

She had her mother and she had their attendant, and that was it. So I think but I think that also is partly what makes them a good match for both their relationship as friends and study companions and everything. Because because she doesn't know that when she meets this, she she tells everybody like it is, because she's never had a problem and never had a reason to, like, put a filter on herself and not just say what she thinks. And I think that's what really sparks, Li Wei and Xinyan's relationship Xinyan's relationship in the first place is that he is loves that she just tells it like it is. And, it's a very refreshing thing for him because he's so used to people just spewing bullshit that, that I think that's one of the big thing that kicks off their relationship.

Yeah. I feel like Li Wei has to censor himself through his lens of royalty sort of, and then Xingyan is living her double life, so to speak, trying to kind of hide who where she came from. And so they both have these secrets that they're keeping, and for lack of a better term, they ultimately end up trauma bonded. Leeway has to act a certain way due to his being the prince, and she's too busy trying not to spill her family background secret and being really hesitant to trust anyone else. And I feel like they kind of bond over that where they can they can cut I mean, him be truly himself, her.

For the most part, she is herself. It's just she kind of omitted the fact of who her parents are, but that didn't change. I feel like in their relationship, that didn't change, anything about, like, how she acted towards him or who she was or anything like that. It just so happened, like, yes. This is your parents.

But I I think they just really complement each other well. Like, he's your stereotypical hero esque kind of character, like, good, treats everyone equally, is rational, and she's kind of like your hot headed person, is more brash, speaks her mind, doesn't care if she is offending or isn't care like, doesn't care about tradition because she didn't grow up with that. How does Shing Yin feel about their accomplishments while serving as leeway study companion? Do you support Shing Yin's decision to join the army and make her own way? And why is it so important for her to control her own choices and her own destiny?

So I feel like I support her army decision because who am I to tell a woman what she can and can't do? But aside from that, I think it was beneficial for her. It allowed her a lot of growth and other things. Obviously, it also had its detriments, but, I think as far as control goes, it's important for her to control her own choices just because so much of childhood is not in control just in general for everybody, but particularly in her situation, like, when with her previous situation. And, like, she wants to be able to be independent and not have to rely or trust rely on or trust other people because she seems to have some trust issues.

Just slightly. So I feel like she is proud of what she accomplished in her years as leeway study companion. The only thing I would say to that is I understand that, like, her father is a renowned, like, archer, and that's what we're going for in the book, but, like, that's not how genetics works. Just because your parents are good at anything doesn't mean you're going to be good at that. I mean, look at all these people who are, like, high profile athletes.

Like, most often than not, their child doesn't compete with them. And same with, like, if that were the case incorrect. For me. If that were the case for me, like, I would be an amazing math person. Like, both of my parents are amazing at math, and I'm, like, as dumb as rocks when it comes to math.

So, like, that's that's not how that works. So that's a little thing that I had an issue with was, like, the fact that, like, she is a legit archer, but it may be I don't know. Like, she had an affinity for it because of her father and then years of practice with, as leeway's study companion. Maybe she she got, like, extra practice where maybe she wouldn't have. I don't know, but that's the only kind of gripe I had with that whole thing about that.

And what were you gonna say, Michael? Go on. I was gonna say, that that that's just not always correct. Like, if we were to pull up the Los Angeles Lakers roster, we would see that LeBron James and his son, Bronnie, are both playing on the same team in the same sport and are both highly successful. There are definitely genetic components to athleticism and, like, singing.

I feel like singers, like, their kids don't always, like, go that path. But for some reason, sometimes, like think about, like, Billy Ray Cyrus, Miley Cyrus. Like, I'm not saying they're, like, top notch singers, but, there's, like, genetic influence in some of it, but not I so I I think it's both because it's, like, obviously, if you have a singer in the family, like, you grow up with that, so then your interests are going to go into that. And same with, like, playing the sport. Like, maybe you see your father playing the sport or something or your mother playing the sport, and you're gonna go, like, oh, I want to do that too.

But I think it's I think it's both. Like, you unfortunately, like, if you don't get your dad's height, you're not gonna play basketball. You're just you know? Like, you're going to start lower than maybe they did if they're, like, 7 foot 2 when you're, like, 55. Like, it's just Yes.

Not gonna happen for you. Like, they're not their their their guys are both muggles, so I couldn't get a hot one. I digress. That that's just me being silly. But, anyways, do I support her decision in joining the army?

Yeah. Like, I don't think she'd be happy to just wall around the palace without something driving her. Like, she's a very driven character, and I feel like Lee Wei didn't know her very much if he thought she would be okay just being like a little concubine over there in the palace. Like, she's that's not the kind of person that she was. I'm surprised I even thought that.

That she'd be like, okay. You know? She she had lights and dreams, and I guess he didn't technically realize that she was trying to save her mom, so that's her bad. But, you know, I support her wrongs and her rights, and so here we are. As far as why it's important yeah.

I think I feel she's one of those people who doesn't like feeling indebted to anyone. Like, she wants to accomplish her things in her own merit, and and she wants to make a name for herself and and save like, obviously, she didn't tell anyone about her mom, and that was her whole life goal was to save her mom. So, like, maybe had she they they could have helped her. Maybe he would have been like, oh, I understand. Like, let me help you.

But, like, Laura mentioned, like, she girls got trust issues because the only people she ever hung out with was her mom and their attendant. And then outside of that, like, her mom's like, don't tell anyone. Like, this is a huge no no. Like, you tend to be like, okay. I probably shouldn't tell anyone about this.

I I get that. So so yeah. I mean, I I don't have a whole lot to add on this one. I I don't think though that that Leeway I don't think he expected or thought that she would, like, wanna stick around. I think he knew that she would want to go off and do her own thing.

I think he hoped because he didn't want to lose her. I think he hoped that she would stick around. But I think I think deep down, he knew that she wasn't like, she's gonna do her own thing because that's he he he fell for her both in friendship and in romance because she's someone who doesn't listen to other people and does her own thing and will do whatever she wants. And so yeah. I mean, I obviously, I do support her decision to join the army.

I think her reasoning for joining it was when she figured out that she could win this, this honor that would allow her to ask the emperor of any any favor. She's like, oh, well, that's high for my mom. Easy enough. I'm gonna become a badass archer and, you know, go do some cool shit. And so, yes, I do support it.

And also because of what Lauren said, like, who am I to say, like, what she can and can't do? And I think for her, it's very important, like, both of you said, to control her own choices because she's never really had an opportunity to before. And so she's gonna lean into that now, but she can. It's I'd just like to mention it's funny where they went to the it's the ocean kingdom. I'd like e east ocean kingdom.

I don't remember. Sea kingdom or something like that. Mhmm. And they're like, oh, you're a woman? Like, we don't support women or we don't have women in our military.

She just scoffs like, you're missing out then. You know? I thought that was just kind of a funny scene. It definitely was a funny scene. Alright.

Did you see Wenji Wenshi's deceit coming or did the twist surprise you? So sort of I was very sus of him since their first, like, fight in part 2 where he kinda just disappeared at night for reasons. How he dodged questions about his family and just like wanted to check out the library with no one else there. Like all of that was very sus. And then she she even mentioned that at the end.

She was like, yes. All this added up was like real weird. I was like, yeah, girl. Missed the red flags. But anyhoo, so kind of, like, I just thought he was very sus.

I was like, there's something going on with this guy, but, like, I don't I don't I didn't think he'd be the demon prince, though. Like, we did we kinda get mentions of, like, the demon realm or the demon kingdom or whatever you wanna call it, but, like, not a lot of it. So I was kinda surprised. I was like, okay. Especially because, like, there are a lot of, like, nefarious people in this book, so I wasn't sure, like, who the, quote, unquote, big bad was going to be.

And I'm still not even sure if it's gonna be him and his family or, like, what's going on with that. But, no, I I I I wanna say, like, I was half seasoned. Like, I thought he was sus. There's something weird going on. I thought maybe he was in cahoots with somebody.

I didn't know who the somebody was because you just don't really get a lot of that. I just wasn't like, oh, yes. He's also a prince. Like, girl be picking them real good. Right?

Like, prince a and prince b over here. Like, damn, girl. But, yeah, didn't didn't expect the whole demon aspect of him being there. Barber pretty much hit the nail on the head with this one. Yeah.

I I I thought he was kinda suspicious for a lot of reasons, but definitely did not expect him to be that level of bad guy. So so, yeah, I mean, the the the twist did surprise me. I I I had my suspicions that he was not everything he was cracked up to be, but not to that extent. Samesy. I thought he was sus when he was being kind of, like, disappearing and dodgy.

Definitely, there there was no thought in my mind. Oh, this is like a demon prince. No. I just thought, oh, this is a douchebag. Or, like, he's gonna end up hurting her in one way or another.

It wasn't like, Right. It was like, oh, he's not being honest or, like, he's where something's gonna come out that's gonna not end well. But I definitely, like, nowhere in my mind was like, he's a demon prince. Like Mhmm. Yeah.

I thought because I was like, okay. There's I hate calling it a triangle because it's not a triangle. It's like, a v, technically. It's an angle. It's a v.

A love angle. A love angle. And, I was like, someone's gonna have to do something that makes her not dislike them, and Li Wei already did that in a sense that, like, he wouldn't marry her or, like, couldn't be with her type thing. So I was like, when she's gotta do something, like, he's a little too, like, stabby stab hungry. So I was like, I wonder if he that's what I thought.

Like, maybe he was gonna, like, murder some yeah. Like, murder someone or attempt to murder leeway is what I was thinking. Like, that kind of a thing. I wasn't like, demon prince. What?

Speaking of that, whose betrayal is worse, leeway's or Wenxie's? And do you think Xinyan will ever be able to trust or love again? Clearly, Wen Xi's betrayal. I I don't think I don't even consider what Li Wei did a betrayal, and I'm gonna talk about that in just a second. But Wen Xi's was absolutely a betrayal.

He straight up lied. Honestly, what Xing Yin did to Liwei was more of a betrayal than the other way around. But, again, I'll get to that in a second. Wenxie pretended to be somebody else with the intent of, you know, doing evil things to try to take over and take down the celestial kingdom. Huge betrayal.

Obviously, it's gonna cause some trust issues. She was falling in love with this person who turns out to be not who they said they were. But as far as Li Wei, like, he he is a royal person. And in this culture and the society that they live in, he has no control over who he gets to marry because marriage for them is not about love. It's about making a, connection with another ruling power for diplomacy purposes, or alliance purposes or staving off war purposes, or whatever it might be.

But he doesn't get to pick. And so while that sucks that they were falling in love and that he can't, well, initially can't be with her. That's I mean, she should've she should've known that comes to the territory. He's a prince. He doesn't get to pick.

And so I don't think that's a betrayal. I think, actually, it's more of a betrayal what she did in keeping her true identity from him. You know, in some ways, to a lesser extent, she did the same thing to him that Wang Xi did to her. She pretended to be somebody else. No.

Didn't didn't put the full extent of her identity out there on the table. Not to a full extent, but yeah. I mean So as far as the last question, though, yes, I I do think that she'll be able to trust her love fully again. I I think that the end of the book pretty much sums up the fact that her and, and Liwei are gonna be together, but I think it's gonna take some time to get over the the trauma of, betrayal from, what, from what Wang Shi did to her though, for sure. Yeah.

I think that I would agree with Michael. Obviously, both of them hurt her in certain ways, but when she's was it felt more personal. Like, obviously, he definitely had, like, all of these ill intents and motives behind what he was doing. I do think that he had genuine feelings for her, obviously, at some point, but that doesn't make up for the fact that, like, what he did. And I don't even know if, like, more personal is the right term that I'm looking for.

I don't know. But I hope, obviously, that she's able to go to celestial therapy. Just kidding. And finally and finally, the ability to trust and love again because she does have some trust issues, and this is just solidifying them. And, yeah, I mean, I I always liked her with leeway, but, we have another question on that at the end, so I'll save that.

Yeah. Definitely, Wenche's for sure is the worst betrayal. He fully used her, I think, and accidentally fell in love with her in the process. Like, I think he had nefarious reasons to getting closer to her and then was like, oh, dope. She's cool.

Oops. You know, type thing. I don't I don't think he fully went in to be like, oh, I like her, and then he used her type thing. It's I think it was the other way around. He didn't take it really like that.

Stand, and then it's like, oh, I actually like this person, but now I use a tool bag. Exactly. Exactly. So I I think that's why it's worse. Like, he completely lied.

Like, there's no if and what's about it. He completely lied to her about pretty much everything. Whereas, Leeway, like Michael mentioned, was just trying to put his people first be because of his position. Like, he does like Michael said, he does not get a choice. Like, he is a prince, and in their culture, they he has to marry for political reasons.

It has nothing to do with for love. And, like, could he have pushed his parents a little bit more? Yeah. But, like, have you met his parents? Like, I don't think they would have a problem murdering him, to be honest with you, because, like, I think it's funny that he's a prince and he yeah.

Okay. He has to get married for political reasons, but, like, these bitches be living forever. So, like, realistically speaking, it's just like a maybe if something were to happen to his father, Lee would step up, but, like, he's been ruling for, like, 100 of 1000 of years or something crazy amount of time like this, like, can't go in anywhere. I hope he will, but, you know, as of right now, he's not. So it's just kinda weird to me, but, like, okay.

Fine. I get it. Like, Leeway is a little softer hearted, and so I don't think he, like, pushed his parents as much as maybe he could have, and maybe that was, like, why Sheehan was, like, what the heck? But, like, girl, like, you knew what you were getting into. Like, you knew he was the prince.

You had no offense. Like, you didn't really you weren't even in line. Like, you know? So it was ill fated to begin with. He kind of knew that.

So I was a little pissed off at her that she was like, how dare you? I was like, well, I mean, he tried. But anyhoo, yes. I mean, as far as, like, will she yeah. I think so.

Like, for my sake, she better get rid of me because I want a happy ending. Alright. Next question then. After learning more about the mind talent and its users and uses, why do you think the Celestial Emperor banned the practice and exiled the cloud wall realm turning it into the demon realm? I feel like the mind control stuff is obviously a super dangerous power to have just in general, and it can be just like any other power used for evil or good.

And, so I kind of understand wanting it banned for, like, the ill intent weaponized usage, I guess. But to ban it entirely and in the way that happened and then just, like, I don't know, I feel like it was more out of, like, a fear of the unknown or a fear of it was more fear based. So instead of, like, oh, this is actually, like, a really cool power that people have. Let's figure out how we can harness it and use it for something different. It's like, no.

It's the devil realm or whatever, and, like, we're just gonna banish it entirely. I don't know if any of that made sense. But Why did he do that? Because I'm a personal bitch. No.

I'm just kidding. But, really, can you tell I'm not a fan? Anyways, I I really do think he's an evil guy who's just looking out for number 1 aka himself, but I digress. I think his intent was, like, he doesn't understand something or he can't control it. He deems it as bad or evil like he did with the dragons clearly who literally have a rule of thumb like, hey.

We're not about this lifestyle. We're not gonna fight for you. We're not gonna kill anyone. That's not how we are. And he's like, well, screw you.

You're evil. You're banished. And it's like, man, that's no. And so I feel like maybe we're not getting the full picture of the mind talent users because he did the same thing with them. Granted, yeah, like, they're like, Laura mentioned, like, their powers can be used destructively.

And even Xinyan mentioned it. She's like, yes. Like, all of our powers can be used badly, but, like, you're you're removing someone's body autonomy. Like, you're removing their free will and making them do stuff that they normally would not do outside of that so that can cause more harm than than that. You know?

So it's not like, oh, I shot a fire bolt or a ice arrow at you. Like, that she intentionally did that. That was an intentional thing. Whereas the other one, it's like you're making these people fight each other. So that's that's the issue there.

But I think the problem is he literally created these quote unquote demons, these quote unquote bad guys because he ostracized them and claimed their powers as bad, and you put them against a wall. So what are they going to do? They're going to retaliate. So you made them use their powers like this. I'm very curious if the second book is going to, like, go into the background of these mind talents and and the demon realm and and how we got to this point and what actually happened.

Because I feel like we're not getting the full picture here about all of this, but we'll we'll see. Yeah. I mean, bottom line, the mind talent is no more no more or less dangerous than any of the other magic. The only reason it's banned and ostracized and demonized is because it's the only type of magic that the emperor can't practice. And because it's the only type of magic he can't practice, it means he can't control it and he doesn't fully understand it, which is why he banned it.

Same with the dragon. Same with everything else that he he can't control. He's the emperor. He likes to control things. Shocker.

And so yeah. I I don't think that his wife? Well, yeah, because he's afraid of her, and, she might kill him. But, I think that they they just he did it because he is afraid of what he doesn't understand and what he can't control. And it's the only type of magic he can't use, so he's like, you know what?

Get out of here. Don't want any of that crap in my empire. Is it the right decision? No. It's not.

I mean, you can't just ostracize people you don't understand, but that's why he did it because he is afraid of it at the end of the day. He can't counter it. He doesn't have any power against it, so he got rid of it. I don't know that I would agree that it's not any more dangerous than other powers. Yeah.

Because I feel like the mind control piece, literally, you're, like, taking away somebody's free will or, like, causing them to act or, like, in a way that they otherwise can't control versus, like, shooting fire arrows. Right? Like, that's badass, but there's, like, shields and there's you don't have to have magical powers to necessarily, like, fend that off, whereas you would literally have to have the ability to close your mind however magically in order to like, there is very little that you can do in defense of the mind control piece. Not that I think it's The emperor literally almost killed an immortal woman, Xinyan, with his lightning powers because he fuck because he felt like it. Watch watch your profanity.

Because he felt like it. I'm not saying the emperor is a good guy. I'm saying in the abstract, like, if we take the emperor out of it, I don't think that mind control is necessarily equal to some of the other, like, traits. It has the it has more potential to be worse Right. Than the other ones.

Saying in the ways that they used it, it was worse. I'm saying that in the abstract, like, that to me It's god tier. Yeah. Right. Whereas the other ones, I mean, they're still, like, you said, like, lightning.

Like, you're still bad, but, like, yeah, I I agree with Lauren on that too. Even at the end of the story, Xinyan's affections are still somewhat split between Wen Chi and Li Hue. How did you feel about this ending? Did you know that there was a sequel? What do you think will happen?

Will Xinyan choose Li Wei or Wen Xi? So I was fine with this ending since I did know there was a or I did know this was book 1 in a duology. I think she'll either choose Li Wei or choose herself. I don't think she'd ever choose when she, but, like, who knows? I I obviously don't read the I haven't read the second one nor did I write it.

So I I don't know, but I'm leaning towards leeway or by herself. Like, she don't need no man. But I have a inkling that it might be leeway because he was, like, the first. And I honestly I think she only fell for a windshield. I feel bad saying this, but I think she only fell for win she because she thought she couldn't have leeway.

Like, boy, you're playing 2nd fiddle. Like, she chose you because she didn't have another option. Like, her first her first choice was going to be leeway, obviously, but, like, there's a lot going on with that whole thing. So who's to know? Maybe the the second book will put in the 3rd option.

Like, we don't know. You know? I'm gonna get on my soapbox for this one. I thought it was so stupid that at the end of the book, that Wing when she is even still, like, even a small candidate. Like, what Barbara and I got into an argument about this when we talked about the end of the book.

An argument. Like, and I and I I will say so my thoughts on this is there is a moment where Shin Xinyan had an opportunity to end Wen Xi, either herself or through his evil brother, and just he dies. He's off the board. And she took the moral high ground and was like, no. He can't he's still a person.

We can't do that. And fine. What I like about the book and what I like what the author did is that the author made her confront that bad decision. Because because she let him live, she got to see all of those people that are celestials that were part of the army that she fought in and people that she knew die. And that sucks.

It's the Batman dilemma. Like, Batman doesn't kill the Joker. Batman has to watch the Joker kill a bunch of innocent people. And that's what happened here. She could not bring herself to either kill him or let him die by other means, and that was the consequence.

But the fact that, like, at the end, like, she's like, oh, I don't know. It's like, no. You know, he's evil. Like, you let him live. Fine.

That was a bad decision. Know that, though. You don't know if he's evil. I don't know. I don't know.

Like, even Did he put magic resistant handcuffs on her and he and kidnap her against the wall? Saying he's a great guy, but that doesn't mean you deserve to die. Like, what if what if she left him alive, and now he's gonna take over the demon realm and they, like, work together in a good way. Because if not, he would be dead and his creepy, rapey older brother would be the one. And he's he's, like, definition of evil right there.

I don't think let's ask let's ask the celestial soldier who just had a baby. Oh, wait. We can't because he's dead. He was killed. My god.

Doing too many what ifs. I feel like, though, that what I heard Michael saying was, okay. She didn't let him die. She had to deal with the consequences. What I hear is the frustration, which is also mine, is that, like, why is he even still an option for you?

Like, as a Yes. As somebody that you are interested in, I understand, like, not he doesn't necessarily need to die, but that also means that we don't need to sleep with him. Come on. Like I understand. But, like, isn't that the whole great old question?

Like, if it was so easy to fall out of love with people, wouldn't everyone do it? Like, we've all been there. We've all been young and impressionable and fallen in love with crappy people. But does it end well, Barbara? Does it end well?

No. It never does. But, like, that's how you grow as a human and figure out, like, you know what? Maybe the bad boy isn't for me. And some of us don't learn that.

I know. And that's why I give her the benefit of, like, the, you know, she I understand why she couldn't kill him and why she couldn't let his brother kill him. I'm just saying I like that the author made her confront that decision and say because I couldn't do this and I couldn't let this happen, this is the consequence. Yeah. I feel like it's very human of her of these choices and stuff.

Because, like, if you look at your life, you'd be like, we've made some crap decision because of who we chosen to love. And I'm not even saying, like Yeah. Like relationship. Like, even platonically, you can have a crappy friend or or any of this stuff, you know? And it's like, it's not so easy to just snap your fingers and be like, I choose to not like you anymore.

Like, unfortunately, that's not how that works. You know, Like You can have feelings for somebody and not act on them because you they've shown you who they are, which I feel like you're Well, she hasn't acted on it. Like, after she figured out he was No. But, like, what my friend is, like, if she chooses to, like, have him as an option, that would be acting on something when she he's already shown her who he is. What if he has, like, a whole, what is it called?

Redemption arc. Like, what if he like, I have a feeling that that's gonna gonna be what happens and maybe he, like, dies trying to save her type thing. You know? I don't know. I have a lot of things going on with my what could happen.

He would have to have a hell of a redemption arc story for it to be valid to me, but that's just my opinion. Oh, I love me some redemption arc, so I'm for it. Like, I really for him having a redemption arc. I don't think that there's any level of redemption arc that can cause that should cause her to be like, oh my god. I love you.

Mhmm. I do. I I've always loved you. I don't care that you kidnapped me and did all these horrible things. Right?

Hey, Michael. Some people are just masochists. Come on. I only knew that there's a sequel to this because we had discussed it before starting the book that, like, it was a duology and those are not super common. I just basically already said my piece on the rest of it.

I don't know who she will choose. I hope it's Li Wei. She has more of a natural chemistry with him. He's actually a good person, at his core, I feel like morally. But I also just kinda hope she stays single and, like, has a doomy attitude for a while after all of the betrayal she went through and all the trauma shit that she endured.

But if she's going to end up with one of them, it it should be leeway. And if she so chooses differently, I have a feeling it would definitely be for the plot. For for for the plot in the book because, you know, obviously, that's gonna make make more drama storytelling wise, if she chooses the baddie. But, yeah, Erica O'Neil kind of already spoke to that. Alright.

Now last question. Why do you think Xinyan chose to free the dragons instead of using them or binding their power to others? How is she able to honor the dragon's wishes and still fulfill the celestial emperor's task, and how would the novel have changed if she had made a different decision? As far as first question, I think she chose to free the dragons because the dragons are about as neutral of a character and party that that you can have. They are not evil.

They are not good. They are neutral. They don't intend to harm other people. In fact, they wanna help. And I think she saw that.

Like, she and she also learned that if she allowed someone to control them and let them force them to do bad things, they were gonna die. That would destroy them. So I think that that is why she let them free. I think that was the right choice. They did not deserve to be bound to anybody.

And so that's that's the first question. How is she able to honor the dragon's wishes? Because a celestial limper was being a deceitful little bitch and not telling her what the pearls were, just that he wanted the pearls. So because he just said he wanted the pearls, he did not imply he needed the dragon's life essences in the pearls, just one of the pearls. So she was able to return the essences to the dragons and at great physical cost to herself, and still fulfill her agreement by giving the emperor these now very beautiful but very much useless pearls.

And the novel would have been dramatically different if she made a different decision. If she had chosen to allow Wen Xi to keep the dragons, then God knows what would have happened to the Celestial Empire. If she had chosen to give the dragons to the celestial emperor, god knows what would have happened to, the rest of the world. If she had chosen to keep the dragon's power for herself. That would have been an interesting second book.

Like, we'd have this character where, like, Xinyan's, like, this good person learning about the world, and then she becomes an authoritarian dictator to the power of the dragon. I mean, that would be the interesting book. I that's what I'm saying. That's not totally what I just said. I I would read that.

But, I mean, they it would have been a totally different ending, totally different future if she didn't do what she did. And I'm sure the dragons will come back in book 2. They made it pretty clear that maybe they they gave for a means to contact them. So the the odds of that happening are are quite high. But, but, yeah, that's that's my answer for those those three questions.

Yeah. I overall agree with what you said. I feel like she wasn't going to go against what they they'd already been gosh. What's the word I'm thinking of? Not enslaved.

Not ostracized. I can't think of the word that I'm trying to my brain's not braining. Anyway, the dragons had already, like, been through enough as far as being kind of pushed out or, misunderstood, I guess. And so I don't think that she would use them in a bad way for that reason because she's not a sh And then, yeah, Michael answered mess with others. I think he also had a lot of, good twists on.

She would have made a different decision what that could've looked like. But, yeah, the dragons better come back also. Dragon Mhmm. Dragons in the I would be so disappointed if they don't. I want more dragons in the last book.

Anyhoo Oh my gosh. I think she realized what their powers in the wrong hands could do, like, both with the demon Kainan with the emperor. Like, she clearly saw both of them were power hungry, and she's like, nah. So I'm not about that life. So plus she saw that people would not heed their choices and make them fight, which was going literally against their nature and what killed them in the process.

And I think throughout the book, she did a lot of growth as far as, like, she she realized what not being so, like, narrow minded and being so, like, me, me, me, me could could do. You know? Like, she started to realize, oh, like, my actions actually have consequences outside of just me. And I I she saw that when she's like, yeah. I'll take your pearl powers, and she's like, oh, crap.

Like, me? If I would have just been like, no. I'm not taking it. They would have just flown away, then no one, you know, would have grabbed him type thing, and we wouldn't be in this situation. But as far as, like, how does she honor that?

By literally using his own tactics and wording against him, like, serves him right. The emperor was gonna be a sleaze ball and be like, I just want the perils. And she's like, well, bitch, I just gave you the pearls, and he acted like a complete and utter douche nugget about it. Like, she literally did the same thing he did, and he's like, I'm gonna murder you for it. I was like, your true colors are showing the guy, like, hello.

You did the same shiz to her. She's doing it back to you, and you're pissed off that she did the same thing. Where does he get to? Wanna be barber? You can you tell I am not a fan?

I am not a fan of this man. Really? I thought he was your favorite character. That was the vibe. He is not.

If we're gonna talk about favorite evil characters, mine is the flower, queen. Go off, queen. I'm a little sad that she died too soon. RIP. Anyways, I think if she would have done something differently, we would have had an over overpowered emperor at our hands and an evil evil human.

As far as with the demon side, it would have been the same thing. It would have been like war. Although I have a feeling this might still end up with that, but we'll see. Let's see. I have a feeling that yeah.

Well, I've already talked about my dislike about the emperor, but I digress. Really? Have you? I I think I must have missed that. Any opportunity I'm gonna do or I'm gonna get, I'm gonna talk to you is about him.

I must've I guess I must've missed that. You must have. Good thing you can re relisten to this. It's true. Well, we've made it to the end of another podcast.

Let's talk about our individual scores for this book. Barbara, what was yours? Yes. I gave it an 8.75 for reasons of I wanted more of an ensemble cast of characters. I really liked some of the other characters, and I wish we got more of them.

I wasn't a huge fan of, like, in your face similes. It I feel like it kind of tapered down. It wasn't as much. It still was there, but not as much later on throughout the book. The pacing was good.

I enjoyed the pacing. The the characters were all really amazing. Obviously, the world building, the magic, the dragons, we need more dragons. So, yeah, that's the Dragons. The dragons.

My score for this one was an 8.5 out of 10, a reasonable decimal, only one over, not 2. But, I die fears. It was a good book. I really liked it. I think it, deserves that high score.

I am excited too, and I hope we get a chance to read the second one on the podcast. I am the only one that did not do a decimal. You wanna put it in the You get a and you get it pumped up tomorrow. You can you can mail me a gluten free cookie. I gave it an 8.

Originally, I gave it a 7, but then the further I reflected, I felt I was being harsh. I did enjoy it. I think that this is one the the reason that I increased my score was because I actually would probably read the second one. And, usually, with these types of books that I'm made to read on the podcast, I have no real true interest in finishing a series just depending on how much I liked it. So but I think I would read this.

So our group score for this one was at 8.416 repeating out of 10. Make sure you're following Badass Literature for free in your favorite podcast app. Give us a rating and leave us a review if they allow you to. Also, please don't forget to follow us on social media. Our username is @badasslippod on both Instagram and Facebook You can also send us a DM or leave a comment on Instagram or Facebook.

As always, thank you so much for listening. See you next time. I'm Michael. I'm Barbara. And I'm Lauren.

Bye. Bye. Oh, and if you didn't catch it, Barbara hates the emperor. Yes. No, he's her favorite.

Death to the emperor. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. I did I did get confused.

She wasn't very clear.