S4E155 Don't Let Them Take Your Animals

This week, I ran across the story of Paul Strobel, a farmer in Western NY who had a run-in with some animal rights activists that left him shaken and worried that they might try to steal his livestock.

His story reminded me of a farmer near me several years ago name Joshua Rockwood who did have his animals taken under the guise of animal rights.  He was able to fight and get his animals returned to him.

On this episode, we talk about how we as homesteaders should be vigilant and how we can take steps to avoid problems with animal rights activists.

Enjoy!!
Brian!!

Story of Paul Strobel:
https://www.lancasterfarming.com/farming-news/livestock/rescue-or-theft-animal-welfare-activists-have-new-york-farm-community-on-edge/article_7614d3b2-e44d-11ed-b2fd-efaf86e867d8.html

Story of Joshua Rockwood:
https://www.bedlamfarm.com/2021/09/08/the-joshua-rockwood-story-a-good-man-a-happy-ending-a-father-of-the-army-of-good/

Transcript

Brian: 0:03

I'm your host, Brian Wells, and I'm a fourth generation homesteader Since 2008, my family and I have been homesteading here in beautiful upstate New York. In 2019, I launched the Homestead Journey Podcast to help people just like you get started and find success on their journey towards self-sufficiency, self-reliance, and sustainability. This is the Homestead journey and this. Is season four. Well, hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Homestead Journey podcast. My name is Brian Wells. I am coming to you from three B Farm and Homestead here in beautiful upstate New York. This is in fact season four, and this is episode 155 of the Homestead Journey Podcast. So if you are a longtime listener, well thank you so much for spending part of your week with me, and if you're brand new to this podcast, well, I'm glad you found us and welcome, and I hope that you do find it helpful, you find it enjoyable, and that we have a long relationship, one with another. And if there's any way I can help you, and this goes for you, old timers as well, but you know this, of course, reach out to me via email, brian@thehomesteadjourney.net. I would love to hear from you if there's any way I can be helpful, if there's questions you have that you would like my take on. Well, certainly I am always available. You can also reach out to me on all of our social media sites. The links are in the show notes. But if you just go to Instagram or Facebook and look for the Homestead Journey podcast, I am sure you will find me there. But folks, it has been a very, very busy week here on the homestead. It's that time of the year when things are really starting to ramp up and we finally got some good weather, which meant I was actually able to get out into the garden and spend quite a bit of time this week. So I'm excited to tell you all about that. I am also looking forward to sharing with you today's topic. We're gonna be talking about a current event, which is not something that I do very often, but there was a news article that I ran across with regards to a small scale farmer out in Western New York who had a run in with some, animal rights activists. And so we're going to talk a little bit about that. And we're also going to talk about a situation that took place with a farmer here locally a few years ago that I actually, I don't wanna say witnessed firsthand, but I did go to some court dates for that farmer. So anyhow, looking forward to jumping into that topic. But before we do so, as always, let's jump on over to this week's homestead happenings, and I will bring you up to speed with what we've been doing here. On three B Farm in Homestead. So as I said, busy, busy week here on the homestead and also off the homestead. We'll talk a little bit about a couple of things that, uh, I did away from the homestead this week as well. First of all, let's just jump into one of those things. This week started the practices for Washington County. Concert band now. That's something that I was a part of pre Covid in 2019. Both my son and I joined the Washington County concert band. He was in eighth grade at the time. Uh, I had not played my trombone, I think since from about the time he was born. So we're talking, it was 14 years about, I think, That it had been since I played a trombone, but I got it out, joined the band, had an absolute blast. It was so great for him too. It really stretched him musically, and it was just a, a, a great experience for him. Unfortunately, COVID happened, and so for the last three years, he and I have not been able to be a part of it. But this year I decided, I'm getting back into it. Unfortunately, due to his schedule, he's not able to join me. But it's just a lot of fun to get involved in things like that with within your community and, and folks, the reason why I bring that up on a home setting podcast is because I want you to realize that there is more to homesteading than just hanging out on your homestead. I really do feel like. Home setting thrives within the context of community, and so whatever it is that brings you joy in your life. Outside of homesteading, uh, pursue those things and make those connections with, with people. You never know where those connections are going to lead. They may lead right back to homesteading and they may not lead back to homesteading at all. And it's all good. In fact, I think it's very important for us to have hobbies and activities outside of homesteading. To help us avoid getting burned out. And so for me, I love music. I'm involved in the choir at our church. I sing on the praise team at our church. There's a community choir that I sing in in the fall. I I, I love music. And so this is just another way, another avenue for me to pursue that and meet people in my community form those relationships and just really, really have, uh, a lot of fun. And it's just something for me that is really a great stress relief. And so I would, I would just highly encourage you, whatever it is, If you enjoy softball and you can get into some kind of a softball league or Frisbee golf or whatever it is, um, something that brings you joy and gets you off the homestead, I would strongly encourage you to do that. I just wanted to bring that up and really strongly encourage you to not neglect those things that feed your soul. I think that's just a great way to say it. For me, music feeds my soul, and so I'm just so excited to be able to get back into that. But on the homestead, it was a very busy week. The, the first part of the week was very rainy. We'd had. Probably a week and a half of rain, which I'm not complaining about. I jokingly said to a friend of mine at work that in August we'll be begging for that rain. So I, I'm, I'm not complaining at all, but it, it certainly does make it hard to get into the garden and get things done. And so finally this week, I think it was Wednesday evening, maybe it was Thursday evening, I just said, enough is enough. I don't care how wet I get. I'm going out and I'm planting peas now. It honestly is a bit late to be planting peas for me. Not to say that I'm not going to get a, a harvest. But. The point I'm making is that usually by now I have so much more in the ground and that really was the first thing that I had gotten planted besides my garlic, which I planted last fall. So I got the peas in the ground midweek, and then Friday evening and Saturday, I really was able to get a lot of things in the ground. I got lettuce and arugula. And spinach and beets and radishes all planted and it felt so good to have my fingers in the dirt. Now again, for me, I'm a bit late getting those things planted. It is what it is and it's gonna be what it's gonna be, but certainly it does feel good to have garden 2023 well underway, and we'll just keep attacking it as we can. Another thing I, I did on Saturday around my raised beds was really starting to get overrun by grass and creeping myrtle and a few other weeds that just were driving me nuts. And so what I ended up doing is just taking down all of the fencing around my garden. I had put up some snow fencing and a few other bits and and pieces of fencing to try to keep the deer out, but that also made it very difficult for me to weed whack and to keep those weeds down. And so I pulled all of that down on Saturday and I just went to town with the weed whacker and I weed whacked all down to bare ground. And then I started going down to the local town barn and getting scoops of wood chips and bringing them up and, I just can't wait to get that all spread out and looking nice and refreshed, and hopefully I'll be able to stay ahead of the weeds that have just popped up around that garden in the last couple of years. Speaking of weeds and gardens, I. And moved my piglets up to the Ruth Stout bed to weed there a little bit. I had had some weeds kind of get ahead of me up there, and folks, they did such a wonderful job just really turning over the soil up there. I had them up there about a week, and they did exactly what I wanted them to do. And so Friday evening after I got home from work, I was able to get. New pen set up for them in another area on our property and move those pigs. And then I was able to level things out. Tomorrow evening after choir, I'm picking up some mulch hay from a friend of mine and we'll get some hay put down and then the roost out bed is gonna be ready to rock and roll. And I am so excited about that. But those pigs just did a wonderful job. Of just really disturbing that soil. I was very intentional about where I put the feed. So there were some areas that I really wanted disturbed, and so that's where I threw the feed and that really encouraged them to really go to town in those areas. And it worked out very, very well. And certainly that's gonna be one of the things that I'm going to miss once all of the pigs are gone is having them. Available for me to kind of put them to work and do some of that work that would've been backbreaking and really would've caused me to spend probably the better part of a Saturday out in the blazing sun, trying to get those weeds pulled and everything leveled out the way I wanted it to. Just having those pigs up there for a week, putting feed in the areas that I wanted greatly disturbed, worked out very, very well. Another thing I wanted to share with you, and I will keep you posted on this, so if you don't follow us on social media, make sure you do. Uh, I was honored to be interviewed for another podcast yesterday morning, and so as soon as that episode is released, I will be sharing that on all of my social media accounts. So if that's something that you're interested in taking a listen to, certainly make sure that you give us a follower alike on Instagram, Facebook, you know, all of the places. I will also. Let people know via our newsletter. So if you haven't already signed up for that, if you head on over to our website, the homestead journey.net/newsletter, you'll be able to sign up for that, and that will also keep you abreast of other things that we have coming up. today I spent some time off the homestead up at my mom and dad's homestead. So my dad had knee replacement surgery a couple of weeks ago, and he is doing very, very well. But we also wanna make sure he keeps doing very, very well and he doesn't overdo things. And so I went up there today and helped him get some guttering hung up on the side of his house. He has some water barrels that he is getting set up to catch rain water so that he can water his garden. And so I was able to get the guttering hung up, although, to be honest with you, um, it's just good enough. And we, we jokingly refer to the, the jobs that we do as good enough contractors. Certainly I am not a professional. Anybody who does guttering for a living would be very disappointed in what I did, but it is up. It does catch water. Water runs in the correct direction, and so we're gonna take all of that as winds and positive things. So that's what we've been up to here on three B Farm and a homestead. Certainly it has been a busy week and it will continue to be busy here on the homestead. So much stuff going on this spring. We've got my Son's last spring concert coming up this coming week. It's Mother's Day this coming week. So many, just so many things going on and, uh, just trying to get homesteading in, uh, you know, in and around the cracks. Fill in the cracks with whatever we can get. Some garden planted here and some gardened planted there. And, uh, just doing the best we can with the time that we have allotted. Certainly I do want to remind you of the upcoming Southern Adirondack Home Setting Festival. So if you do live in the Great Northeast and you are available May 19th, 20th, and 21st, it's gonna be a great time. We have a great lineup of speakers, and it certainly is gonna be a great opportunity for you to connect with other like-minded individuals here in the great Northeast. So if that is something that is of interest to you, head on over to the homestead journey.net/festival. You'll be able to find out more information and get signed up there. One other thing I do want to make note of is that we. Are now offering single day tickets. So we had people say, Hey listen, I can't make it to both days. Would you be willing to offer single day tickets? We heard the people, we listened to the people, and we are now offering a single day ticket. So if you wanna come for the entire weekend, it's$75. And then you can sign up for additional workshops. I believe the workshops are like 10 bucks a piece. And if you just want to come for a single day, then those tickets are$45. And again, head on over to the homestead journey.net. Slash festival. Well, that's it for this week's Homestead. Happenings a busy, busy week, but a very fulfilling week here on the homestead. So excited to have Garden 2023 well underway, and hopefully things keep going in the right direction. I do hope things are going well wherever. You are at. All right, let's jump on over to this week's charting the course. A couple of weeks ago, I ran across an article on lancaster farming.com that details an encounter that a small producer, a small uh, farmer had with some animal rights activists. And as I read through that article, It reminded me of a situation that took place not long ago. Now when I say not long ago, it was back in 2015, so we're talking almost eight years ago. And I guess depending on how you look at things, that's a little bit ago. But, uh, certainly it did happen here locally with another small farmer. And as I thought about both of those situations, it really got me to thinking about how we as homesteaders. Need to keep in mind that there are those who are very, very active and activist type animal rights people who can cause us serious problems on our homesteads if we're not careful. And so I wanna look at both of those situations on this episode and then talk about a few things that we can do as homesteaders to try to mitigate those risks as best we can. So first of all, the article that I read in lancaster farming.com and I will have a, a link to the entire article in the show notes. I'm just gonna read a little bit from the article. I'm not gonna read the entire thing, but just to kind of give you an idea of what took place with this farmer. Paul Strobel had just poured a cup of coffee on the morning of April 16th when he spotted something from his kitchen window that shattered the tranquility of the day. Strobel, who operates a small market on his family beef farm. In New Fein, New York saw two people, a man and a woman standing in his driveway with cell phones. They appeared to be taking video of his cattle, Barnes gates and locks. Strobel ran to confront the intruders, but they jumped into a car and fled. Later that day, a vehicle of the same description drove by the farm, slowing down in front of the barn before speeding away when Stroble and his family were in sight. We're a small farm that raises beef, pork, and vegetables for our retail market. It's very unsettling to see people on your property taking video of your animals and buildings. He sent. Strobel still doesn't know who those people were, but he has an idea of what they were up to the day before the incident at Strobel's Farm. The group Project Vegan 716, held a meeting at its vegan center in nearby Tonawanda, California based attorney Wayne. Hes young who moderated a panel discussion at the meeting, said the event was held to promote open rescue, which he says is the act of openly giving aid to animals who are suffering. From neglect or abuse. Strobel, however said the group openly advocates for people to enter farms and steal livestock under the guise of rescuing them from abuse. It's no coincidence he said that a day after the meeting is when the two individuals were spotted videoing on his farm. The Niagara County Sheriff's Office documented the incident and Strobel learned that another farmer in the area reported two people with the same vehicle description. I've barely slept since this started. I'm wound like a spring all the time, suspicious of every car and noise. Strobel said I go out and patrol my farm at night because I don't know what these people are going to do. A Facebook post on that Western New York vegans connections page offered further details about the April 15th meeting. Saying his young. Will take us through the stages of animal rescue from researching facilities to winning at trial. Whether you want to plan your own high impact, open rescue, or simply be a supporter, this workshop will inspire and empower you to make a difference in the lives of animals. In an emailed response, hissing said no one from the meeting conducted surveillance on farms in the new Fein area. When asked the purpose of the meeting was to recruit individuals to surveil farms and enter properties to rescue animals. He said animals are routinely abused in industrial animal agriculture. And transparency into this abuse is a service to the community. Consumers have the right to know what's happening in factory farms. Hissing said there are many scenarios in which people are entitled to give aid to sick and suffering animals under the right to rescue. And juries in Utah and California have supported the acts. However, Brooke Duer, staff attorney at the Penn State Center for Agriculture and Shale Law said in the absence of actual consent, a private citizen has no legal right to enter private property due to perceived abuse or neglect of an animal. A press release issued by Niagara County Sheriff's Office after the incident at Strobel's Farm said the group that held the April 15th open rescue meeting is actively recruiting people to research farms as part of animal rescues, the sheriff's office advised farmers in the area to remain alert for suspicious activity related to the meeting, noting that people arrive by vehicle to conduct surveillance of a farm, and the intent is to gather information for potential rescue of farm animals. And I'll go ahead and stop reading that there. There's certainly more, uh, that they detail here with regards to, um, a particular individual in that area who has actually been charged with regards to open rescue of animals. But the point is that we need to be very, very vigilant as homesteaders because there are people like this who I believe are well-meaning, but certainly they are also very ignorant with regards to. What it means to raise livestock, and I don't mean saying that they're ignorant as being disparaging. It just simply means that they don't know what they don't know. In fact, I had a friend who is a animal lover who commented to me, Uh, a while ago with regards to a farmer up the road from her who has beef cows, and it was in the middle of the winter, it was snowing, and she drove by and saw these cows standing out in the middle of the pasture, and she was like, well, why doesn't he have'em in a barn? And why doesn't he have this, and why doesn't he have that? She missed the fact that there is actually a windbreak shelter that the cows could go into, but they would prefer to be out in the open because that's just how they are. They had the shelter there. They just opted not to use it, and so she was going to call animal control on this guy. And I told her, Hey, number one, it's none of your business. Number two, you don't know what you're talking about. Number three, there's shelter, there's water, and there's feet available to those animals, so you really don't have a leg to stand on anyhow. But she was not being malicious. She meant well, but she could have caused that guy a whole lot of grief and heartache because of it. The other story that I wanted to share is a story of a farmer by the name of Joshua Rockwood, who is a farmer, fairly local to me. This happened back in 2015, I believe, was actually when this started. Now there is an article on bedlam farm.com which details the, the journey that Joshua went through. I will again link to that in the show notes. It does have the date as being 2017. I know for a fact that it was in 2015 when this all started, so there is a bit of a, I'll call it a typo there. But other than that, the description of what took place is very accurate. And I'm gonna start at the middle of the article where it says this, when Joshua was arrested on charges of animal cruelty in 2017, it was actually 2015 in part because his water tank froze in a bitter stretch of sub-zero weather. A farmer emailed me and said a great injustice had been committed. He asked me to write about it. To help a man. He knew to be good ind decent, fight for his animals, his reputation, and his farm. For me, that became a mission. I don't generally write about people or things I don't know, but something about the arrest bothered me. All our water buckets and tanks froze in that winter, and so did the pipes of the Glenville City Hall where the charges against Joshua had been filed. It seemed wrong to me. Just a feeling. Joshua then 28 was arrested in March of 2017, actually March of 2015, and charged with 13 misdemeanor accounts of failure to provide proper sustenance. After Glenville, New York police raided West Wind acres. They claim to find animals in unheated areas without access to unfrozen water, three of his horses were compensated. It was apparent to me and others living with farm animals that no small farm could withstand the overzealous judgment of the police and their animal rights advisors. No small farms I know, including mine, have heated barns. Every farm including mine, deals with frozen water tanks in the winter, especially when the electricity goes out. I had also learned some hard lessons about animal rights movement when writing about the New York City carriage horses and their fight to fend off similar charges, almost all of which turned out to be true. I was stunned to see how some elements of that movement, including pita. S P C A and the Humane Society were lying and distorting reality to raise money and war against working domestic animals and the people who owned and loved them. I had never in my life seen nonprofit institutions lie so brazenly and shamelessly to raise money and get away with it. The day after I learned of the raid and Josh was arrest, I drove two hours to Glenville and West Wind Acres Farm to meet him. I was shocked by this young, very open, courteous, and idealistic man. His animals were not abused in any way. One pig appeared to have a frost bitten ear. He doted on his two dogs, ese guard dogs. None of his animals were dehydrated. The police took his horse away and he was determined to fight the charges against him, in part, to protect other farmers from the police and animal rights raids on his farm. He had some wobbly fences, but what farmer doesn't, everything about Joshua is open and transparent, including West Wind Acres Visitors were and are welcomed anytime. His mission was to buy and sell local, ethically raised meats. He wanted people to see the meat they bought and eat and know where it came from. He is a champion of small sustainable family farms. To me and many others, it seemed a government and animal rights overreach. I've been hearing these horror stories from farmers from for some time, police showing up when a cow lies down to take a nap. Animal rights activist opening up gates at night because someone told them it was abuse for working animals to work again and again. Farmers told me they were hiding the animals from the road because animal rights vigilantes were patrolling to look for signs of. Animal cruelty and abuse, even though they knew little about either thing. Joshua decided to fight the charges all the way. I agreed to raise money for his defense. Joshua was able to hire a first rate attorney with the money he raised from the GoFundMe site. Farmers all over the country wanted to help. He was offered cushy deals repeatedly by an increasingly rattled district attorney, but he refused to enable what he felt was ranked injustice. I came to admire Joshua. He never lost his temporary determination. I never heard him any call anyone a bad name. We became good friends 10 months after the arrest on. January 30th, all animal neglect charges against Rockwood were dismissed. Ending what was a grueling, frightening, and unjust ordeal for him and his family. Rock Wood's horses were returned to his farm and to settle. He paid$5,000 for veterinary cost to a horse rescue farm that had agreed to take care of his animals, even though there were no signs at all that they were ill. And there's certainly more in that article. Again, I'm not reading the entire thing, but this is a story that I witnessed. Actually, I, I don't wanna say firsthand because I didn't go visit the farm, but I did go to the courthouse, uh, a couple of times. In solidarity with him because I felt like what was going on was very, very wrong. In part what happened to him is he was located in a place that had been a traditional farming community, but urban sprawl had. Taken place and now all of a sudden you had a bunch of suburbanites that were butted up against a working farm. And not only was it a working farm, but it was a farm that was focused on pastured animals. He had pastured pigs, he had pastured beef cows. He had a couple of horses. He had some livestock guardian dogs. And so people did not understand what he was doing, the ways in which he was raising animals, and they made some really, really poor assumptions with regard to what was taking place. Now, in part what happened is the waterers froze, but as I read in the article, even the water lines in the. Town office where the charges against him were filed, froze the same night that the water lines to his animals froze. My water buckets freeze every night where I'm at. I have to bust out ice every day for my animals. Does that mean I'm abusing them? Well, maybe I need to be careful, or the animal rights activist will come after me. But the fact is, in the middle of the winter, in beautiful, upstate New York, frozen waters in the best of circumstances is still a reality. People that don't raise animals don't understand this. Or maybe they do and they don't care. But the fact of the matter is when you have people who are now up against farms, And they don't understand what they're looking at. It can lead to difficult situations for farmers and homesteaders who are trying to do their best by their animals. But life circumstances happen. Acts of God, lots of rain that might lead to muddy pens, super cold weather that might lead to frozen waterers. All of that takes place. And when you have a subset of people who have bought into a narrative and who are very ignorant to the facts, it can lead to very, very complicated situations. And so what are we to do as homesteaders? Because the fact of the matter is this could happen to any one of us. If you are raising animals, and especially if you're raising animals the way many homesteaders do, you're looking to pasture. Pigs, you're looking to past your poultry. Maybe you have a family milk cow, but you're, you're doing things a little bit outside the norm. You're going to have people who don't understand what you're doing and may make accusations against you that could end up in legal proceedings. So here are a few things that I thought about with regards. To preventative measures that we can take to do our best to try to avoid the situations of Joshua and Paul. The first thing I would say is, Be very careful where you put your animals. Now, certainly you may find yourself in a situation where you have to put your animals near where people can see them, but if you have an option to put your animals in a spot where people cannot see them, my recommendation is to do that. Why go looking for problems? Yeah, you may be dead. Right? But are you wanting to have that battle? Do you want to have animal rights activist picketing you? Do you want to have them trying to break onto your pro? Are you looking for that fight? Now, if you are and you're willing to fight that, fight, more power to you. But I would say that most of us probably just wanna raise our animals and do our thing in peace. And so if you can. My recommendation is to be very careful with regards to where you put your animals and don't put them where they can be seen from the road or from a public area. The second thing I would say is be very, very careful about what you post online. Certainly we want to be honest with regards to what we face as farmers and homesteaders. Homesteading is not always a bed of roses. And I've talked about my dislike, actually almost hatred of the whole cottage core, uh, type approach to homesteading, you know, the d in the hair frolicking, the, in the fields. It's not realistic. And so there is a sense to where I think we all desire to be authentic, but sometimes maybe we don't need to be as authentic. If you know what I'm saying. So be careful about what you post online as you look at things. Maybe ask yourself, could somebody twist this? Could somebody take this out of context? Could somebody use this against me? And just really think twice about what you're posting and what you're sharing, especially on your farm. Facebook or Instagram sites. I also think you need to be careful with regards to who you tick off in your town, and that's not always been something that I've been great at. There are a couple of community Facebook sites here in our area where I've been known to kind of stir the pot, uh, a time or two with regards to some people, and there have been times when I thought Brian. You never know what these crazy people might do to retaliate, so just think about that. Be careful about how you interact with your neighbors, both in person and online because you want them to be your greatest allies, not your biggest enemies, and they certainly can make your life miserable, especially if you are maybe, I'm not gonna say. Uh, operating outside the bounds of the law, but maybe you're doing things that aren't necessarily 100% in compliance with the law, if you know what I'm saying. If you've gone rogue a little bit, then you definitely don't want to have your neighbors as your worst enemy because they will make your life miserable. So don't go there. The third thing I would say is be careful who you invite onto your property, especially If you're selling meat, if you're selling eggs, if you really, if you're selling anything off of your farm. But if you list anything on Facebook marketplace, just be very, very careful of who you invite onto your property, because sometimes people can come onto your property under the guise of buying meat, under the guise of buying animals, but really looking for. Problems to create. And so especially if you're dealing with Facebook marketplace or you're dealing with, you know, something where you can research somebody's profile, you might wanna do that. Or instead of having them come to your farm or homestead, maybe you meet them at the local Walmart parking lot or the local post office parking lot or something like that. But again, just being very, very aware. Of who you are inviting onto your property to ensure that you aren't inviting in problems. The fourth thing you may want to consider is adding either game cameras or security cameras. Now, depending on the size of your homestead, you may not be able to get a security camera that's going to reach to where. Your front gate is, so in that case, maybe a game camera that runs off of batteries is going to be a, a better option. But whether it's ring doorbells or ways can there, there's just a whole bunch of options out there of things that you might wanna consider adding to ensure. That if somebody does mess with your animals, mess with your homestead, mess with your fences, that you can capture who that is, and then you have proof of whatever violations they have done. The final thing I would say is know your rights. And also know your responsibilities. Now, a a a bit ago I did mention about going rogue. You know, um, let's say you live in an HOA and they say, no chickens. Maybe they say no animals at all, and maybe you sneak a few rabbits into your garage, or you've got a few quail in your garage or something like that. You need to understand that if you get caught. There could be consequences, so know your responsibilities if you're going to operate in that gray area. Understand what might happen as a result. Also know your rights. You know, if you live in a town where maybe they say no roosters, but you can have chickens, and so you get chickens and then somebody starts giving you a hard time about having chickens, you know, I have the right to have chickens where I live, there are right to farm laws, and so I know that I have the right to do what I'm doing. I have the right to raise animals for meat. I have the right to. Process chickens and sell them. I have the right to do that because of certain laws that are in place. I have certain rights. Also understand that there are times when what we think we should be able to do and what we are able to do under the eyes of the law are two very different things. And so how are we going to challenge that? Are we going to openly defy it? And look to create a problem with the hope of creating change. Are we going to work to change the law so that we can do what we want? I think that's going to be an individual decision. Certain people are, are gonna want to take the fight to, to them and, and kind of thumb their nose at the law and, and. Deal with the consequences later and other people may take a less confrontational approach. I don't think either one is right or wrong. It just depends on how you as an individual want to approach it. But certainly, Knowing your rights and responsibilities is going to be key, so that if you are challenged by an animal rights activist or you're challenged by somebody who says, no, you're not allowed to do X, Y, or Z. You know, yes, I'm able to do X, Y, or Z because of this, or, ah, okay, yeah, you're right, what you're gonna do about it, and then you kind of go from there. But that's certainly up to you. Certainly, I want to be clear as I wrap this up that I am not defending animal abuse or animal neglect. But I also do strongly believe that the vast majority of homesteaders got into this thing because they actually were concerned about how animals are treated within the corporate large AG type facilities, and they wanted to do better. They also understand that the better an animal is treated, the better that animal is going to grow and thrive. The better that animal is going to be for them. And so my strong belief is that the vast majority of homesteaders, the vast majority of small scale farmers are involved in this because they want to do better. But having said that, in the middle of the winter, Water freezes, electricity goes out, rain happens, snow comes. There are a lot of things that take place that are outside a farmer's control, and so we try to do the best we can with what we've got, but there are always going to be people who don't think it's good enough and who are going to challenge us. And so the question is how do we handle that? And in my opinion, an ounce of prevention is certainly worth a pound of cure. But if you're somebody who's looking for a fight, then you do you. And when you got a GoFundMe page up, let me know. I'll blast it out and we'll support you. All right folks. That's it for this episode. Again, links to both of the articles that I read from will be in the show notes. If you have any questions or concerns, if you're aware of a situation that I should highlight, let me know. brian@thehomesteadjourney.net is my email address, and until next time, everybody, keep up the good work.