How to Find Your Inspiration - Tony Martignetti

In today’s episode, I chat with Tony Martignetti, Founder & Chief Inspiration Officer at Inspired Purpose Coaching, a Boston-based organization on a mission to elevate leaders and equip them with the tools to navigate through change. 

Tony’s also the host of the Virtual Campfire Podcast, an Advisory Board member for a number of purpose-driven organizations, and an Executive Coach. 

Together we talked about all things personal transformation. Tony was kind enough to share his own personal story, the anecdotes & lessons he learned along the way, as a roadmap for others who may be seeking greater purpose in their lives. 

There’s an illusion that people are more unhappy than ever before. Granted, with the pandemic, the Great Resignation, and a 24 hour news cycle, its not hard to find examples of what’s not working. 

The fact is as a species, if we look at measurements like poverty, infant mortality, and economic prosperity, we’ve never been better off. Then why are so many people unhappy. Left feeling directionless, uninspired and unfulfilled? 

We dug into this topic, and many more in what was a really fun conversation. 

In the end it’s about defining success for yourself and putting plans in place to achieve it. 

We had a great discussion and I hope you enjoy it.

Tony Martignetti

Tony Martignetti is a trusted advisor, coach, experience creator, author, podcast host, and speaker. He brings together over 25 years of business and management experience, formal training, and extreme curiosity to elevate leaders and equip them with the tools to navigate through change and unlock their true potential.

He loves guiding people to find clarity in their lives, so they are energized, fully present, and unstoppable. When leaders unlock their potential and lead from a place of inspired purpose, they impact and inspire everyone around them. He has dedicated himself to helping people live inspired lives.

Before becoming the founder and Chief Inspiration Officer of Inspired Purpose Coaching, he was a finance and strategy executive with experience working with some of the world's leading life sciences companies. Along his journey, he also managed small businesses and ran a financial consulting company.

Tony is the host of The Virtual Campfire podcast and the author of "Climbing the Right Mountain: Navigating the Journey to An Inspired Life."

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Matt Burns is an award-winning executive, social entrepreneur and speaker. He believes in the power of community, simplicity & technology.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Matt: So even though I was working in an industry at the time, which was really serving, it was in biotech. We were working on some [00:00:10] rare diseases and oncology. I was working on a lot different mazing treatments for lifesaving therapies. Ultimately I felt as though I wasn't saying my. [00:00:20] Which is probably the most important thing.

Intro by Matt

[00:00:21] Matt: [00:00:30] Constraints drive innovation. Hey everyone. It's Matt here for another episode [00:00:40] of thinking inside the box, a show where we discuss complex issues related to work and culture. If you're interested in checking out our other content, you can find us at [00:00:50] bento, hr.com, wherever you find your favorite podcasts by searching, thinking inside the box.

And now in virtual reality, each Thursday at 5:00 [00:01:00] PM Pacific standard time in Altspace via. In today's episode, I chat with Tony founder and chief inspiration officer at [00:01:10] inspired purpose coaching a Boston-based organization on a mission to elevate leaders and equip them with the tools to navigate through change.

Tony is also the host of [00:01:20] the virtual campfire podcast and advisory board member for a number of purpose-driven organizations and an executive. Together. We talked about [00:01:30] all things, personal transformation, and Tony was kind enough to share his own personal story and the anecdotes and lessons he's learned along the way as a [00:01:40] roadmap for others who may be seeking greater purpose in their lives.

There's an illusion that people are more unhappy than ever before. Granted [00:01:50] with the pandemic, the great resignation and a 24 hour news cycle. It's not hard to find examples of what's not. The fact is as a [00:02:00] species. If we look at measurements like poverty, infant, mortality, and economic prosperity, we've never been better off.

Then why are so many people [00:02:10] unhappy, feeling directionless, uninspired, and unfulfilled. We dug into this topic and many more and what was a really fun conversation. [00:02:20] And in the end, we discussed the importance of defining success for your. And putting plans in place to achieve them. And now I bring you [00:02:30] Tony Martin Marinetti.

Begin interview

[00:02:32] Matt: Hello, Tony, how are you doing today?

[00:02:34] Guest 1: I'm doing great. Thank you for that.

[00:02:36] Matt: Awesome. Hey, tell me, I'm looking forward to this conversation. this podcast features a [00:02:40] lot of different kinds of guests. We talk to business leaders, we talked to entrepreneurs, we talked to individuals like yourself, that support people in a very different context.

And Ray. [00:02:50] Now I think it's fair to suggest that a large number of people have spent the last 18 months in various forms of duress and chaos and stress, and that's caused [00:03:00] people to consider. Where they find themselves in life and how closely that may have mapped to their original vision of how their life would unfold.

I'm looking forward to this conversation. So I think it's a, it's [00:03:10] a really cool inflection point for people, as we hopefully are seeing the end of this pandemic, to consider what their lives may look like in a future post COVID world. So I'm looking forward to having [00:03:20] you here today. Thanks so much for joining me.

[00:03:22] Matt: Um, before we get into that juicy topic, perhaps maybe just a bit of time on who Tony is, what you're all about and.

Oh, fantastic. I appreciate that. [00:03:30] And so just to share about what I'm doing right now, and, you know, I'm a trusted advisor. I work a lot with, people who are accomplished leaders who are feeling stuck in their journey and [00:03:40] feeling as though they can use a little guidance to get on the right path for them. as, industry-wise I work with people across many different industries, um, Came from a [00:03:50] background in biotech. So there's a lot of commonality in that space, but let me, let me, uh, unpack a little bit of my story and share where I came from. Why did I [00:04:00] jump into the space of coaching advising? Um, what have you, I.

I spent about 25 years in high-tech biotech. I'm [00:04:10] working in the capacity of a finance and strategy professional. And I was kind of saw myself as this numbers person, you know, like that's the thing I do. It's what I was trained to [00:04:20] do. And, Putting myself in that box was just comfortable for me. But the reality is everyone around me said, oh, you know, you're not the typical [00:04:30] finance person. And I'm like, okay, well, whatever that means, um, I just keep on doing my job. But I, at some point realized that I was limiting [00:04:40] myself. I was limiting myself from my potential. I wasn't doing the work that I was really meant to be doing.

And it started to wear on me. I started to have these strains where [00:04:50] I was pushing and pushing and pushing to get to this place where I was doing, you know, getting to the top of what I call my mountain and, It was [00:05:00] really stressful for me because I was trying to create something that wasn't really meant for me. I found myself depressed and, you know, really on the verge of [00:05:10] burnout and I was burnt out, burnt out and I found that it wasn't. That I was externally seen as like burnt out or [00:05:20] someone who was, you know, frayed, uh, if you will. But on the inside, I felt like I just was missing. Something was really missing inside.

And in the [00:05:30] process of trying to get to the top of my career as a CFO, as a professional, I constantly felt as though I had to give up [00:05:40] my time with family, my time with friends, all of these things in order to get. so lost myself in the process of becoming who I was at the time. And then I [00:05:50] realized that this is not working.

So even though I was working in an industry at the time, which was really serving, it was in biotech. We [00:06:00] were working on some rare diseases and oncology. I was working on a lot different mazing treatments for lifesaving therapies. Ultimately I felt as though I wasn't saying [00:06:10] my. Which is probably the most important thing.

[00:06:12] Guest 1: If I wanted to serve others, I need to save myself. and so I started to retool myself rethink and redesign [00:06:20] who I was, and it all led to this point. Where I was sitting in a boardroom at a biotech company and looking around the room and seeing how [00:06:30] leaders were showing up in this room. And I said to myself, this is not how to lead.

These people were worried about how they looked. They're concerned about preserving [00:06:40] their own image. And I realized that. I can't do this any longer. I can't continue to pay like a paycheck and just show up, um, with the awareness that I [00:06:50] already gained along my journey to getting out from the bottom, the dark side, if you will, I started to realize that I can do something about this.

And so I decided to literally get up and leave [00:07:00] the room and I would leave the room to change the room. And that's what I did. I left and I decided To do something about [00:07:10] it. Wasn't exactly clear how to do that. But coaching was the vehicle that it became. So it's a bit about me. There's more I could go [00:07:20] into, but I'll spare you all the other details.

[00:07:23] Matt: Well, no, don't worry. We're going to, we're going to poke at that story, Tony. So you're not off the hook quite yet. And I want to poke on a very specific inflection point for you [00:07:30] because as somebody who has very much had his own personal transformation over the last four years, and a lot of the comments. Your comments around your previous life and, you [00:07:40] know, your, your ascent to the C-suite and a lot of those comments for me ring very, very true. and I can connect with a lot of things that you've said, and I want to focus in on [00:07:50] one particular part, because I think it's a really interesting inflection point.

You mentioned that. You were, you had this overall dissatisfaction with the current state of your life that I used the [00:08:00] term balance scorecard. So went on a balance scorecard. Tony has a lot of chips on career and maybe some chips smattering over other parts of his life, but the vast [00:08:10] majority put towards career.

I'm guessing Tony, like a lot of individuals. Probably wrapped a lot of your self-worth a lot of your self image, a lot of how [00:08:20] people interacted with you in the world was through the lens of Tony as this type of professional. Tony works at this particular organization. Tony does this kind of work. at some point though, you said, [00:08:30] ha that's that's not working for me anymore.

I'm curious, were there specific moments or specific feelings that cause you to ask [00:08:40] whether or not. because at some point that you made the decision to shift to a career focused on. Right. And whether it was expectations of yourself or other people, you made that decision. So what [00:08:50] was the, what was the catalyst to say this isn't working anymore for me?

[00:08:54] Guest 1: Yeah. I mean, there's no doubt about it and I'm not saying that this is something that everyone has to get there, but when [00:09:00] you have the darkest of moments and you start to lose hope, that you are. That you want to live? I mean, I don't mean to say that, um, that, this is a very common thing [00:09:10] nowadays that people get to this place in their lives and they start to see that the life they're living is not what they want. and that's really what it took for me is to go to the bottom [00:09:20] and then to come up from that. So for me, that's what it took, but. Honestly, I hope that the work I'm doing will help people to avoid that moment,[00:09:30] and allow them to, to get the warning signs before they get to that. so that's what it took for me, but also there were other things along the way that, [00:09:40] you know, again, people telling me things like, yeah, you know, there's something about you that is different.

There's something about you, that the way you show up the way you see [00:09:50] people that they were sending clues along the way. But I had, I had, um, neglected to listen. And now in hindsight, I wish I had [00:10:00] listened more.

[00:10:01] Matt: I think it's a really important point. And I think, you know, you're right. A lot of people today are waking, realizing that the life that [00:10:10] they have is not the life that they may have wanted or desired or had been working towards. and some of that may be because of extraneous circumstances, we are going through a global [00:10:20] pandemic, which has fundamentally rocked all of us in, in very different ways.

I have friends who own restaurants who have been disproportionately impacted by. The pandemic. And of course, [00:10:30] before the pandemic had poured their blood, sweat, and tears into their business, and then something extremely as to that impacts their livelihood and longevity. There are other individuals that you, you referenced [00:10:40] that have had some pretty challenging times, including myself with mental health during the pandemic.

So there's a whole bunch of factors that I think cause people to feel that way. And I think I like [00:10:50] to set context because I spend a lot of time thinking about life. And about intentionality and life design and a large part of the shift that I made to your point [00:11:00] stem from a place of dissatisfaction.

And I also wanted to approach the transformation with a sense of empowerment so that if I was going to transform [00:11:10] from the person that I was into the person that I thought I wanted to be, or that I felt that I should be, I was going to be very thoughtful about. Ensuring that the scorecard that previously was imbalanced was [00:11:20] balanced.

And that I was much more intentional about making investments in things like family and friends and my health and exercise and things of that nature that I know [00:11:30] are important for me to keep my life in an equilibrium where I'm living my happiest, most fulfilled self and. I think, I think the intentionality [00:11:40] behind defining, I think we do a lot of thinking nowadays about, and what conversation I certainly see is about what is wrong.

What is missing what is [00:11:50] lacking. And I would much rather have conversations about where do we want to go? So if it's lacking now, cool, but like what, what's the solution? Like where do you want to be? And let's [00:12:00] put energy towards really realizing that destination as opposed to wallowing in the present circumstances, which.

I get it. I've been there. I'm certainly guilty of like everybody [00:12:10] else. it ultimately may be part of the transformational journey, but that path to salvation that path to a future state, uh, putting your attention out there to me is, is a [00:12:20] really good method to just to advance this conversation.

[00:12:23] Guest 1: Yeah, I love it. You mentioned it's not think just wanting to just spend one moment on something that I think is interesting is that like you [00:12:30] have to let go of what is to accept what could be and you know, not to get too, um, too Zen here. I think there's, in that [00:12:40] is this ability to say I have more control over my life than I think I do.

And it starts by. Getting rid of all of the things that I've committed [00:12:50] to already. And instead start from scratch again, you know, in the spirit of, I don't know where this originated from. I think it comes from Stephen [00:13:00] Covey where he, you know, had this exercise where you get the big rocks and you put it into the bowl and then you fill the, um, fill it with the sand afterwards, instead of trying to put the [00:13:10] sand in for.

And then put the rocks in afterwards. You have to think about what are the big rocks that I really want in my life. And I think that's one of the things I really want people to [00:13:20] understand is that you choose those rocks. And when you are at choice, That definition come from external views from social [00:13:30] media, from well-meaning adults who are in your life, or I know that was what I, when I was a child, I had many, one well-meaning adults say, this is what you should want for your life.[00:13:40]

And that's great. But at some point you have to make your own choice about what success looks like.

[00:13:47] Matt: And I think that point is so well [00:13:50] put and it's well put for a number of reasons. I was thinking as you were, we were sharing that. There is this sense of [00:14:00] dissatisfaction or call it misalignment? Uh, people that I talked to it's this people are trying to find their purpose.

They're trying to find meaning they're trying to find fulfillment. They're trying to find balance, the [00:14:10] present, sorry, the previous. Circumstances they found themselves in were largely outside of their control, or they found themselves in situations where they landed in that didn't give them a lot of, uh, [00:14:20] flexibility, autonomy.

The pandemic has, has been a tragedy in many contexts, but. an enabler and a lot of ways for people to start to play at around the edges of [00:14:30] life design, because it affords them more flexibility, um, to integrate work and life as opposed to try and balance it. And that's giving people the chance [00:14:40] to ask themselves, okay, how.

Is it for me to dedicate times to my hobbies or my family or my fitness. And now I no longer have the excuse of having to be at the office from 7:00 [00:14:50] AM to 7:00 PM every single day I can move things around. I'm curious as you're talking this through with your clients and people in your network, how are people beginning this journey, maybe somebody who [00:15:00] hasn't ever stepped into the path of transformation, how are they taking those first few?

[00:15:04] Guest 1: Yeah. I mean, I think that's the first step is really defining what it is that they want. [00:15:10] Um, because when you, when you open up the space for what could be, you know, there's this element of, I have now time, or I have this flexibility. Sometimes the void gets [00:15:20] filled just by. The, the noise of work. Well, I'll just work more.

Or if you don't have the control of, you know, setting that, [00:15:30] um, the container for the good habits to, to move in, then oftentimes you just replace it with more of the same. Um, so. With good [00:15:40] intentions in setting good intentions for yourself. And so I, I love this, um, this productivity paradox that I've worked with my clients on it's, um, [00:15:50] structure creates freedom.

And in that is that, you know, when you start to realize. Plan your days such that you're the author you're creating [00:16:00] the flow of your day. You say that I want this to happen in this, in this way. And then put that structure in place and allowing yourself to say this block of time is [00:16:10] for me to, to connect with my.

To spend time on hobbies to do this and, really make sure the people around you, if you're a leader of people that you're giving [00:16:20] them the freedom to do so, too, I think that's important. when you create those blocks, when you create the structure that says, this is for this, and this is for that, [00:16:30] then.

What happens is you start to allow yourself the freedom to do the things that were most important to you.

[00:16:38] Matt: I love that for a few [00:16:40] reasons. And I'll, I'll share a personal anecdote along the way. Tony, I think first off the exercise of doing that forces you to be re. About the priorities in your life.

Because when you sit down [00:16:50] and act, you have to map out your day and let's just say, you carve out eight hours or seven hours for sleep. And then you have, you know, meals that you're going to have to eat at various intervals. and then you may have [00:17:00] obligations whether they be at home or at work, and then you actually ship away how much.

Uh, air quotes, free time, discretionary time that you might have you'll [00:17:10] realize that there's probably not a lot of it. And most people I talk to are living with people. They do have children, they do have full-time careers. So they may have a couple of hours a week [00:17:20] where this really time that they don't have allocated to somebody else, something else, some other obligation.

And in those cases, I love going through that exercise [00:17:30] because it illuminates. The time compression and gives us permission to be realistic about [00:17:40] what things could be added to our lives.

Start VR Chats

Hey everyone. It's Matt here, and I hope you're enjoying today's discussion before we continue. [00:17:50] I want to make you aware of our latest creative project, HR in VR, every Thursday at 5:00 PM. Pacific standard time. All connect [00:18:00] with technology pioneers, business executives from the world's most iconic brands and industry thought leaders to discuss the future of immersive technologies like [00:18:10] virtual rail.

And their impact on future workplaces in partnership with Microsoft we're broadcasting each episode on LinkedIn live and in [00:18:20] front of a live studio audience in Altspace. Joining is easy for LinkedIn users. Simply follow my account, Matt in VR and stay tuned [00:18:30] Thursdays at 5:00 PM. Pacific standard time for the LinkedIn lives.

Or for a truly immersive live experience, visit alt [00:18:40] vr.com to download Altspace on your Mac, PC or VR headset, and join us live in our studio audience. There you'll have a chance to [00:18:50] ask questions, meet me and our incredible guests and connect with others from the comfort of your own home. This is the future folks.

And I hope to be part of [00:19:00] it. And I'll link the details for HR and VR, along with all other relevant information in the show notes of this podcast. And now [00:19:10] back to our discussion.

End VR Chats

[00:19:14] Matt: So I'll give you an example, Tony, during the, during the pandemic, like a lot of folks, I [00:19:20] found myself with a lot more time than I had before.

I'm not commuting to see clients. I'm not traveling on planes, trains and automobiles. A lot of my meetings now are happening in zoom and because I run a consulting business, a lot of our [00:19:30] clients were in the states. Uh, winding down our engagements to focus in on more urgent matters at their businesses.

And I found myself with an abundance of time and said, okay, what am I going to do [00:19:40] with this time? Because I could spend it sitting on my couch watching Netflix, but I don't, I, that gets boring for me. After about an hour. I need more stimulation than just watching television. And I said, okay, I'm going [00:19:50] to, I've always wanted to get into better shape.

I'm going to start a, able to cross it. Maybe I'll go into the CrossFit thing. I like competition, my friends who were in it, good people. I've [00:20:00] never had the time for it, but now I can, I can dedicate the time necessary to be, do CrossFit. Well, wouldn't, you know, Tony, I had a really hard time putting on my shorts and shoes. Every time a CrossFit [00:20:10] thing came up and it was like, okay, now it's time to be real with myself. I have the time. Uh, clearly this is not a priority enough for me to jump into it. So I didn't even [00:20:20] need to a go to the next class or be dropped this expectation that I'll do CrossFit when I have more time and beating myself up that I'm not [00:20:30] going to CrossFit that I'm not in better shape.

Prioritizing my health, I'm making conscious choices. I need to accept the conscious choices that I'm making and they may have consequences. I probably would be in [00:20:40] better shape if I was doing CrossFit five days a week, but I'm looking back very happy with that decision, but illuminating the compressions you have around time gives you the ability to pair activities [00:20:50] around those times and decide what is really important for you.

Whether it's. CrossFit or whether that's just taking a bath, going for a walk, doing something [00:21:00] different. So I love that exercise that you've brought together and using the time blocks.

[00:21:04] Guest 1: Yeah. Well, I need, and I, and it's funny, I'll just add one more thing to this. So the next level of this, which is to,[00:21:10] Because there is that time audit, you know, you look at your week and you say like, w where does the time go, really?

But then there's the weekly check-in I call it the weekly spark, which [00:21:20] is, you know, a 16 minute, um, tiny block off for yourself to spend and say, like, what happened last week? That was. What do I need [00:21:30] to, to adjust, you know, where did I go wrong? What are the things that I can celebrate? There's a lot of questions you can ask yourself.

I have some, some tools that I use with people on that. And [00:21:40] then I have them look into the future and say, okay, well what's happening next week? Did I plan my week? According to what I, my intentions are what I want for myself. And [00:21:50] if I haven't, maybe it's time to adjust course reminding you. You're the author of your day.

You get to choose what you do next week. [00:22:00] and the most important part of this to say, if there's nothing next week, that excites me, guess what? You got to change your plans because you need to have something in your [00:22:10] week that gets you excited about the work you do or excited about the life you live.

Um, it's not to say that everything's going to be like, Ooh, that's go do this [00:22:20] thing because there's a lot of things we do that we just have to do it's life, but there should be things in your life that create a spark. Keep you energized, [00:22:30] inspire you. It makes sense.

[00:22:33] Matt: Yeah, it totally does one warning for those of you listening, who are like me and type a, um, [00:22:40] resist the temptation to block your days in 15 minute increments, because I can take things a bit too far, Tony and I embraced the scheduling piece.

And then I [00:22:50] got to a point where I was like, this is now feeling like I'm at bootcamp and I've, you know, I've, I have, I've heard a similar phrase with discipline comes freedom. Um, so there's this element of. [00:23:00] Yeah. If you, if you structure your day and you you're on top of your schedule and it's an empowering feeling, life is just easier and it requires a lot of self discipline to get to that point.

[00:23:10] So, um, the one thing I learned. By course-correcting along the way was I'm very specific about the activities that I know have to be done to [00:23:20] maintain my mental and physical health. So I am disciplined about getting exercise every day about meditating every single day. And those things are non-negotiable[00:23:30] then.

In the blocks of time that I don't have allocated to tasks. I'm F I'm fortunate in that I don't have children. I don't have a spouse. So I [00:23:40] have more time than perhaps the average listener. What I will do is I'll actually allocate time to free time. And in that Tony, a big growth thing for [00:23:50] me in the last 18 months was giving myself the permission to do what I wanted to do in that.

Not what I felt like I had to do in that hour, because I also know as an entrepreneur, [00:24:00] you would identify with this both through your own experience with your client's experiences when you're an entrepreneur and you're not doing anything, there's the. What else could I be doing? So giving myself the [00:24:10] permission to say, this is an hour, I'm just going to stare at the wall and see what happens.

[00:24:15] Guest 1: The art of doing nothing, doing nothing. It's really, uh, you know, I love [00:24:20] that. It's funny. Cause um, you know, there's, we rarely allow ourselves that freedom, which is amazing. that's great. Tony. We mentioned. [00:24:30] I was just saying this, uh, this element of like, you know, allowing yourself to be free, to, to explore the things that, you know, not having everything completely [00:24:40] planned out and also being compassionate about, you know, being disciplined is great, but you also want to be compassionate with yourself.

So a lot of what I approached this as [00:24:50] compassionate accountability, being able to hold yourself accountable and your people accountable, but also being compassionate. With yourself and with others to say that [00:25:00] yeah, sometimes things go off brows. You got to make sure that you don't beat yourself up in the process of creating the person you want to be.

[00:25:08] Matt: Let's talk a bit about climbing the right [00:25:10] mountain. I know you're really proud of that effort. Um, for those of us who haven't read the book yet, maybe talk a bit about the journey to write it. and you know, [00:25:20] how you feel coming out of the.

[00:25:22] Guest 1: Yeah. So I appreciate that. So the book was, uh, it w it was a year in, um, in process, but I would say that, [00:25:30] that it probably took me like, you know, 20 or 30 years to, uh, to actually think I could, I could write the book.

Um, so it was an [00:25:40] amazing process. And I, the reason why I wrote it is because I felt like there were so many people out there who I was talking to, who were struggling with. Feeling that [00:25:50] the climb, the neuron, the, the career path they were taking, wasn't really feeling right for them. And they were struggling and they just weren't [00:26:00] feeling satisfied with the place that they got to in their lives.

and so the book came out of this feeling that I needed to, um, write a book [00:26:10] that would connect with people on that level, but I wanted to make it concise. So, in the spirit of. Making it readable. I wrote a, a book that would be [00:26:20] not a novel, a tomb that would be, uh, too much to read, but something that easy to consume.

[00:26:25] Guest 1: And so the book really helps people guide through these what's called guideposts to [00:26:30] connect with who they really want to be on their path and create a different. Way to navigate that journey instead of, connecting with, I'll be [00:26:40] happy when I get there instead, who can you be now to connect with the person you want to be?

and it's really a powerful, [00:26:50] um, it's been great response from the people who have talked. Who've read the book and who have told me that it had an impact on them and the way that they approach life and finding [00:27:00] fulfillment and being happy. From the place where they are and connect with who they want to be,

[00:27:06] Matt: which is a really important topic right now.

And I mean, Tony, we had this discussion [00:27:10] offline. Um, I looked through these conversations largely through the organizational lens, given my experience and spent close to 20 years in the corporate world. And a lot of those [00:27:20] in human resources and, you know, a common phrase that I've heard. I'm sure we've all heard over the last in particular six months is this idea of the great resume.

Yeah.[00:27:30] Where does that all fit into, you know, where your thinking is at and, and, you know, how does the conversation around climbing the right mountain intertwined with the idea of [00:27:40] fulfillment at work?

[00:27:41] Guest 1: Yeah, I honestly, I think one of the things that, um, has really been coming to mind for me around the resignation rate resignation is that.

People have [00:27:50] this expectation that, oh, well, since everyone else is moving on, it's time for me to think about what I should be doing differently, or maybe it's time for me to move on. And, you know, [00:28:00] if I just change the, um, the name of the company on my LinkedIn profile out, I'll be happier. And I maybe get some more money out of this too.

The [00:28:10] reality is that, that is a short-term fix to. Uh, long-term plan, which is, what do you want for yourself? [00:28:20] What do you want, what is the mission and purpose that you really connect with personally? And so you have to think about it before you make any leaps into that, you know, [00:28:30] resigning go to the company, really connect with like, who, who am I?

Who am I trying to, you know, what am I trying to create for myself? Is this really the time [00:28:40] for me to make a leap or have I just lost focus on what it is it's important to me. And so oftentimes I think of it as this is not the great resignation. It's the great [00:28:50] realignment on both sides for the employee to make sure that they are realigned with, are they in the right company?

Do do these. I think the people I want to be. [00:29:00] And for the leaders, for them to realign with their employees, to make sure that they are communicating with them and saying, Hey, this is where we're going. This is what we're doing. [00:29:10] If you still believe in this, Hey, let's go along. Let's go for the journey.

Let's go together. if they're misaligned, then maybe it is time for, for a change. Maybe it's [00:29:20] time to go off in a different direction. but I think. What it's creating is this chance for everyone to say let's step back, think about what's [00:29:30] important to me right now. Who do I want to be? What path do I want to take?

And is this next move, this, you know, is it something [00:29:40] that I really am doing because I'm moving towards something that is really meant for me? Or is it something that I'm just doing? Because you know, I'm feeling anxious. [00:29:50] Or I'm feeling like, you know, I think the grass will be greener on the other side.

[00:29:55] Matt: Yeah. It's this conversation around gap and gain, right? Like it's a, you get into this topic [00:30:00] around the dissonance between your expectations and.

[00:30:03] Guest 1: Yes. Yeah. I mean, everyone has this idea that like, oh, you know this, you know, I've been thinking about [00:30:10] expectations of reality, a lot in the sense that, you know, if you, if your current reality is such that, you know, you feel as though, um, this.

[00:30:20] Feeling settled. I don't feel settled. There's a lot of uncertainty. And so you have this expectation that if I do this, it'll be better. I'll you know, [00:30:30] this is what I think it will be like when I go to that next role and that next thing. But in reality, it's, you know, you don't know for sure you don't have this clarity.

So it's the [00:30:40] best thing you can do is. live in that moment of, how can I get Claire to be who I want to be right now before making any leaps, make sure I understand what I have [00:30:50] accomplished so far. What are the things that I've gained in this time, especially over the past 18 months and connect with that, um, really celebrate where you are [00:31:00] and make sure you're taking any position or any change from a place of strength, not from a place of. Um, of worry or [00:31:10] anxiety.

[00:31:11] Matt: Particularly now when there's a lot of pressure on all of us to feel like we need to react or to change or transform. [00:31:20] And I want to be sensitive to a few things. I think the analogy that comes to mind as you're speaking Tony, is that of the cobblers. And I say that for a [00:31:30] few reasons.

One for those who don't know the particular anecdote, it's, it's the story essentially of the cobbler's children always has the worst shoes because you look after [00:31:40] the, you know, what you know, best first. So in another analogy would be the HR professional who doesn't have the individual development plan or the lawyer who doesn't have a legal will [00:31:50] like it.

We always tend to. Discount the things within our own expertise. and we move on to other priorities. And for those listening on this particular podcast, [00:32:00] um, I know that you span a number of career types, but many of you are leaders and organizations. So I would encourage you to look at this, this conversation in two different lenses.

The first one is a lens [00:32:10] that Tony and I have been discussing for the majority of this podcast, which is the individual lens. But now you have the opportunity to, with some intentionality. Start to design a life [00:32:20] that better aligns with your values, with your expectations, with your purpose within the constraints that you have within your own individual circumstances.

So I, some people will be able [00:32:30] to transform to varying degrees, et cetera. The second lens that I want to just make sure we put a point on is we've talked a lot about organizations and about most [00:32:40] recently about the great resignation and the sense that people may leave organizations because of a misalignment, for whatever reason, with their organization or a misalignment of their life design, relative to where they want it to [00:32:50] be.

we need to be careful that because we are leaders. We are also part authors of the work environments [00:33:00] in which we're hoping to potentially transform. So we need to be part of the solution, both for ourselves, but also for the collective and ask yourself to your point, Tony, if I'm one of those executives [00:33:10] sitting around the boardroom table and your biopharm, any biotech firm, and I'm showing up because I'm trying to look good or posture or influence or play politics, [00:33:20] and I'm doing so at the expense.

[00:33:22] Matt: the firm's best interest. And I'm Lee creating an environment at the workplace that is not fulfilling for other people. [00:33:30] Then we can go searching as much as we want for that utopian place. But if we show up the same way, we're just going to replicate it [00:33:40] somewhere else.

[00:33:40] Guest 1: Yeah. I love who you've met.

I mean, this there's one thing about this, which is if you treat people like a cog in the wheel as a commodity. [00:33:50] Then, yeah, sure. You'll go through people, all the time. You'll constantly be going through people, but ultimately at some point that stops where you stop [00:34:00] attracting the right talent.

You'll stop getting the right people in the door. And that engine of innovation stops starts to churn to a stop because. You're not going to be [00:34:10] able to bring people in the door who are going to want to work with you. Even if you have the most amazing technology foundation platform, you have to be [00:34:20] thinking about people as your most amazing way to create value.

I, I hesitate to call them assets because they're not.[00:34:30] They're not the, uh, they are part of your organization. That really is an important thing to nurture, to enrich, um, [00:34:40] because you want to make sure that people come on board. They're not just coming there to create things for your company, but that you're actually serving them in a way by [00:34:50] helping them to become better employees, better human.

[00:34:53] Guest 1: And when they leave your organization, that they feel empowered, be able to do something bigger than what they [00:35:00] did when they came.

[00:35:01] Matt: Couldn't agree with you more. It's been something we've been talking about for 20 years and a lot of the things in the pandemic that have accelerated our changes that we've been pushing [00:35:10] for in a broader societal context for many, many years, but the, the inertia around transformation is very real at the personal level at the organizational [00:35:20] level.

So things like you've mentioned where we still have some organizations still have some leaders have a very exploitative talent model that is intended to acquire talent. [00:35:30] Exploit them for their resources. And then to your point, they are very replaceable. So we just bring somebody else in to fill that role.

The risk, as you've mentioned in articulated very, very well [00:35:40] is there's absolutely a risk around attraction because now we're in a world where with the digitization of the workplace and with the shift to hybrid work, people are going to have more options. They're going to vote with their feet and you're going [00:35:50] to miss out on good talent.

The second thing, Tony, that actually worries me more. If I'm an executive today, I actually worry more about presentation. I worry about the individual who stays [00:36:00] in my organization, collects a paycheck and gives me 60%. And there are so many more people. In that boat then in the, in the previous camp of like, you may [00:36:10] lose out on a handful of really great candidates over the course of a hiring cycle, but you may have dozens of people who are literally showing up and doing the bare minimum, [00:36:20] because that's why there is so, and we know this Tony, because we have leaders.

Who went during the pandemic had a really hard time saying, yes, you can work from home. I don't [00:36:30] trust you enough to not work when I could see you physically. And it's 2020. I don't trust you enough to let you work autonomously from the. [00:36:40] Even though there's nothing in the actual work site here that allows you to do your job, you can do your job with a laptop.

You can do your job with a cell phone. Yes. You may need to come in for team meetings and need to [00:36:50] come in for very activities. But if you're an individual contributor and your role can be digitized, bringing you to the office before was more a function of ritual and routine than it [00:37:00] ever was about productivity and employee suggested the, there is a clear, scientific link between intrinsic motivation.[00:37:10]

Which is the motivation that comes from within and intrinsic motivation by its very definition cannot be compelled. Extrinsic motivation is carrot and stick. Intrinsic [00:37:20] motivation is what Tony decides that Tony wants to do. Regardless of circumstances is a clear link between intrinsic motives.

Discretionary [00:37:30] effort, which is you decide that you want to give more than just the bare minimum. You want to work that extra half an hour. You want to dig a bit deeper on that research. You want to spend a bit longer refining that, that [00:37:40] pitch or that presentation, you go the extra mile because you personally feel like you need to do that.

And then the outcome of your efforts in an [00:37:50] environment, a knowledge-based economy that we are now operating in. If we lean on leadership skills and management styles that are carrot and stick and [00:38:00] are extraneous to the individual, and that are exploitative in nature, people will self-select. And they may not leave.

And the [00:38:10] organization down the road that has connected to people is looking at the whole self is trying to build an engaging and yet productive workplace will have a competitive advantage [00:38:20] for every single person in the business when you compare them against the contemporary down the road, because they're just going to have that benefits.

[00:38:27] Matt: And, and we're getting to a place now [00:38:30] where Tony, I mean, I, I think I've probably read 20 unique studies. The science is behind this. The math is behind this. The economics are behind it. We're getting to [00:38:40] a point now where if you continue to operate the way that you learned to operate from leadership styles that were originated in a post-World war II context, you're [00:38:50] actually doing your from a financial distress.

[00:38:52] Guest 1: Yeah, I love it. I mean, this is a, you know, what you said is just so right on the money and it's like, you know, I, I often think about, you [00:39:00] know, the ROI, not the return on investment. So return on inspiration and inspiration. I find to be very closely linked to return on it's. [00:39:10] Really, to me connects to that intrinsic motivation.

there is a return on inspiration because ultimately when you get people feeling as [00:39:20] though I love what this, what we're up to here, I love coming into work every day. I love the work that I do. There's something about it that has me [00:39:30] feeling energized. That is gold. that's what drives the bottom line.

[00:39:35] Guest 1: It keeps people engaged in the work they do every day. And I think [00:39:40] that's really what we're talking about at the end of the day. We want to make sure that we're seeing that return in that way. And it doesn't take a lot of effort, but it takes each [00:39:50] person's individual awareness of how am I showing up as a leader?

How am I showing them? In the workplace to help, to make that difference. And one of the things that [00:40:00] I just wanted to mention super quick, because I had a lot of conversations and I still continue to have conversations with people about this is that they will say like, oh, you know, [00:40:10] I got to tell you my organization with toxic leadership, but I had this great package.

And so if I just stick it out a little longer, I'll be fine. And I would ask him, I'm like, [00:40:20] well, so you're just going to go in every day and just come. Show up and just kind of hide under the radar while you collect a [00:40:30] paycheck, just because of the money. So how's your, how's your life every day? You know, it's kind of unfortunate, but I'm sure this is not an anomaly.

This is more common than you'd think.[00:40:40]

[00:40:41] Matt: It's too common. And I hope Tony, as we wrap up today's conversation, that the folks that are in that position have taken [00:40:50] stock in our conversation, that they've taken something away from the conversation. I really appreciate you showing up today as transparently as you have and, and just being really open and honest about your [00:41:00] personal journey.

The journeys that you're seeing in the world. And, um, you know, for those interested in learning more about Tony, I'm gonna link all of your details in the show notes, you know, uh, information [00:41:10] regarding, you know, the book climbing the right mountain, get it all in there for folks who are interested in checking it out.

This is the time folks. If you're looking at, you know, life design, inflection, [00:41:20] turning a new page over, This is an opportunity and a, it starts with making the decision to do it.

[00:41:25] Guest 1: Thank you so much. This is really great. I really enjoyed our conversation.

[00:41:29] Matt: We'll be in [00:41:30] touch. Take care.

[00:41:30] Guest 1: Awesome.

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