Lunatics Radio Hour
Episode 127 - The History of Kaiju Films: Part 3
From the Ultra species in Ultraman to the awe-inspiring battles in Gamera, we're diving into the heart of this epic genre. Beyond the giant robots and monsters, we discuss the emotive stories, the humanity caught in the middle, and the real differences that set these films apart from the rest. We even delve into the legacy of Toho's prop department in shaping the Ultraman TV show.
Ever wondered how real-life events and political themes find their way into the Kaiju universe? We venture into modern Kaiju films, taking a deep look at movies like 'Cloverfield' and 'Pacific Rim.' The discussion gets intense as we draw parallels between the DARPA program and the 'drift system' in Pacific Rim, touch upon the unique concept in 'Colossal,' and even discuss the 2018 movie 'Rampage.'
Lastly, we switch gears to explore the literature side of the Kaiju world, discussing the thought-provoking themes and storytelling techniques. From the political commentary woven into these narratives to chilling tales of survival and death, we leave no stone unturned. And, speaking of literature, we even bring up John Scalzi's book - Kaiju Preservation Society. Get ready for a hefty dose of insight and a fresh perspective on all things Kaiju! And guess what? We've got some kickass Kaiju-themed merch waiting for you in our store. So, buckle up and join us for this epic exploration!
lunaticsproject.com
Get Lunatics Merch here. Join the discussion on Discord.
Check out Abby's book Horror Stories. Available in eBook and paperback. Music by Michaela Papa, Alan Kudan & Jordan Moser. Poster Art by Pilar Keprta @pilar.kep.
Sources
- No film school article by Alyssa Miller: Killer Kaiju: How the Giant Creatures Made Waves in Cinema
- CBR.com article by Jim Johnson Cloverfield Monster's Confirmed Origin Is Actually Pretty Heartbreaking
- Den of Geek’s multi-part series on the history of Ultraman by Stephen Harber.
- Wikipedia, IMDB + Many Films!
What's it like to be a Cattle Rancher? FBI Special Agent? Professional Santa? Find out!
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
From the Ultra species in Ultraman to the awe-inspiring battles in Gamera, we're diving into the heart of this epic genre. Beyond the giant robots and monsters, we discuss the emotive stories, the humanity caught in the middle, and the real differences that set these films apart from the rest. We even delve into the legacy of Toho's prop department in shaping the Ultraman TV show.
Ever wondered how real-life events and political themes find their way into the Kaiju universe? We venture into modern Kaiju films, taking a deep look at movies like 'Cloverfield' and 'Pacific Rim.' The discussion gets intense as we draw parallels between the DARPA program and the 'drift system' in Pacific Rim, touch upon the unique concept in 'Colossal,' and even discuss the 2018 movie 'Rampage.'
Lastly, we switch gears to explore the literature side of the Kaiju world, discussing the thought-provoking themes and storytelling techniques. From the political commentary woven into these narratives to chilling tales of survival and death, we leave no stone unturned. And, speaking of literature, we even bring up John Scalzi's book - Kaiju Preservation Society. Get ready for a hefty dose of insight and a fresh perspective on all things Kaiju! And guess what? We've got some kickass Kaiju-themed merch waiting for you in our store. So, buckle up and join us for this epic exploration!
lunaticsproject.com
Get Lunatics Merch here. Join the discussion on Discord.
Check out Abby's book Horror Stories. Available in eBook and paperback. Music by Michaela Papa, Alan Kudan & Jordan Moser. Poster Art by Pilar Keprta @pilar.kep.
Sources
- No film school article by Alyssa Miller: Killer Kaiju: How the Giant Creatures Made Waves in Cinema
- CBR.com article by Jim Johnson Cloverfield Monster's Confirmed Origin Is Actually Pretty Heartbreaking
- Den of Geek’s multi-part series on the history of Ultraman by Stephen Harber.
- Wikipedia, IMDB + Many Films!
What's it like to be a Cattle Rancher? FBI Special Agent? Professional Santa? Find out!
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Lunatics Radio Hour podcast. I'm Abby Brinker sitting here with Alan Kudan.
Speaker 2:Hello.
Speaker 1:Today we have part three of our Kaiju Mega Series series of the summer, if you will, and today in part three, we are focusing on Kaiju films, excluding the Godzilla franchise, which we have now covered extensively in parts one and in parts two.
Speaker 2:It's really hard to exclude Godzilla. I feel like he makes an appearance in most episodes.
Speaker 1:But you're going to try your best to follow the rules of engagement.
Speaker 2:I'll see what I can do.
Speaker 1:Okay, only a few sources for today. Of course, we have tons of films that we've watched in preparation for this episode, and with that there's also IMDB and Wikipedia, but a few articles which I've already cited, but just because these are specifically what we're pulling on today, there's a CBRcom article by Jim Johnson Chlorophyll monsters confirmed origin is actually pretty heartbreaking. And there's a Den of Geek multi-part series on the history of Ultraman by Stephen Harper. Okay, the first thing that we need to talk about are the big three.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So in Japan the big three Kaiju franchises I'm going to break my own rule are one Godzilla. Not a lot of talk about Godzilla, we're not going to say more Two Ultraman and three Gamera but we're going to talk about Ultraman first, and I'm actually really into Ultraman.
Speaker 2:Ultraman is a bit of a sore spot for me.
Speaker 1:Oh no.
Speaker 2:So around the time when I was first introduced to Godzilla so I was, you know, in 1998, the Matthew Broderick film that was my first exposure. Around this time I had an Ultraman action figure you did. And it was one of the biggest action figures I had.
Speaker 1:Like physically, yes, okay, how big was it? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Like a foot tall maybe, oh, okay, significant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, barbie, you think Barbie's a foot?
Speaker 2:How big is a Barbie? It's like the size of your forearm right.
Speaker 1:No, no, maybe the size of my forearm if you take my hand out. Okay, so we just Googled. Barbie is about 11 and a half inches tall.
Speaker 2:Okay, so, and this thing, the more I think about it, it's like you know about about 10 inches.
Speaker 1:Okay so.
Speaker 2:So, yes, still, barbie would tower over him. She'd probably be. I'd say she'd be a little insecure if she wore heels on a date, but that's not true, because she's all about confidence, that's right. I had this Ultraman action figure and I had absolutely no idea who Ultraman was. I got this action figure as a birthday present, probably. It was picked up from KB Toys and I played with this thing all the fucking time and he had this like really cool pose that I all he had, like one karate shop at one hand and uppercut in the other. And it wasn't until many, many years later that I even found out who Ultraman was. And then, once I did, I was like wow, this is the guy for my childhood. But simply just because in the countless adventures that went on among my action figures growing up, he was always part of them. Then we get to this episode and to this day I have not seen an Ultraman movie.
Speaker 1:We did watch the show, though.
Speaker 2:Well, hang on, I just really wanted to like, okay, I'm I have done a big, deep dive into Godzilla. I think this has been established. I did my due diligence in watching Gamera films and so I was like, okay, I know Kyo-Rin and Abby, there's the big three and they're really big in Japan. So I got, I got to learn about Ultraman and so I tried to watch these films and honestly, it's really tough. There's not a good jumping off point. I'm sure there is, just as there is with Godzilla, but you need to be very well versed in the entire restructuring of the Ultraman lore.
Speaker 2:That happens again and again because there is so so much content and very similar to Godzilla. Naming conventions, just like the names of the films, are tricky. Also, it's primary it was. I think there's more television content than there is theatrical. Do you watch the TV show? Do you watch the movies? A lot of them have very, very similar names or with, like super in front of them or behind them or turbo attached. It's wild. To this day I don't know much about Ultraman. I just know the like pop culture, like references that are here and there.
Speaker 1:And you know the action figure.
Speaker 2:And I know the action figure, which is still in my parents' basement.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I can tell you a little bit about it, and maybe that will provide some context for you.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Ultraman is a franchise that consists of films, a TV show and sort of all of the other mediums that you would expect. Right, we have comic books, we have video games, we have traditional books, etc. Etc.
Speaker 2:Papyrus scrolls.
Speaker 1:For those unfamiliar, ultraman debuted in 1966 with a television series called Ultra Q, so it actually started as a TV show, not as a film, and then was quickly followed, the same year, by a different Ultraman TV series.
Speaker 2:Right, which was called Ultraman.
Speaker 1:Right, so you first have Ultra Q and then later, the same year 1966, you have Ultraman, and those are TV shows.
Speaker 2:Right. Honestly, it should have been Ultra Boy and then Ultraman. That was just a stupid joke. That makes no sense. Everything has to do with adults.
Speaker 1:And Ultra Q doesn't actually have Ultraman in it, though we did watch the first episode of the series and there's some like vague imagery of him, but I think the point is he's not really a core character in Ultra Q. Quoting from the Den of Geek article by Stephen Harbour, quote intended to emulate Western paranormal TV shows like the Outer Limits and the Twilight Zone, ultra Q ended up being a late night drive-in precursor to the X-Files instead. End quote. The show was, at the time, the most expensive ever produced.
Speaker 2:Hmm.
Speaker 1:There's which, when you watch it now it's comically bad, right, but in a campy Whoa whoa, whoa Just in terms of the effects right. I'd say it looks like a film I made when I was eight.
Speaker 2:How dare you? When I saw that, I'm so because, again, we watched this last night, yeah, that's up Full transparency, because none of the movies were available on streaming and I didn't know where to start with the TV shows outside of, like I knew Ultra Q was the first one, but again, where the hell was it even available? And then you're just like, oh hey, it's all on YouTube. Yep, you never think to check YouTube.
Speaker 1:I always think to check YouTube.
Speaker 2:Well, that's because you're smarter than I am.
Speaker 1:No, I'm just a YouTube gal, but you can watch. And again, I can't speak to the accuracy of the ordering, but if you do search Ultra Q on YouTube you will find a good bulk of episodes.
Speaker 2:Well, we put this on and immediately, just like pieces in my heart just clicked into place, I know, it is so cozy. It is Everything. Classic television should be. People you have like you're good guys, you're bad guys, over you know, like you're over the top acting your special effects, which you said looked bad.
Speaker 1:They do look bad, but they're still charming.
Speaker 2:I don't know. It's like the people that found, like the effects from the original, like I love the original Star Trek.
Speaker 1:It does have a Star Trek feel to it.
Speaker 2:When you get to see spaceships flying around and they don't even they don't remove the wires like you just see the monofilament holding them up, but they still go to the trouble of like strapping on fricking engine thrusters that are shooting flames. That's amazing. That's what I want. I want movies like this.
Speaker 1:Well then, it's perfect for you.
Speaker 2:So like we watched this last night and like, yeah, ultraman was there, and like it gives them the beta capsule which I only know, which we'll get there in a minute, like I understand why it's such a phenomena, because it just like it's so cozy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a great way to describe it, so I'm going to break my own rule again to say that there is overlap between the inception of Ultraman and Godzilla, both of which originally came from Toho Studios. Toho actually allowed Ultra Q to use props freely from the Godzilla franchise. Den of Geek describes Ultra Q as a quote horror anthology series. Harbor also notes that it ends up being totally irrelevant from the rest of the Ultraman franchise.
Speaker 2:That's good to know. But also, like the Ultraman franchise puts Godzilla to shame. Like Godzilla has 38 movies, right? Yeah, I think it was our last count, not to mention all the TV shows and everything. But still the amount of Ultraman that exists. I can't think of another franchise that has more stuff. Now, like Godzilla might have more films, but just like the amount of screen time that exists for Ultraman, I don't know. I'm assuming it's right up there with like Power Rangers with the 10 billion seasons of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:I mean, obviously, that's actually a great segue because, like Power Rangers and Ultraman, have a huge overlap.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:But you would never have Power Rangers if you never had Ultraman.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the interesting thing too is during the opening credits of Ultra Q it names itself as a Tokusatsu series which, if you remember back to episode one, is sort of the overarching genre that Kaiju is within. And Ultraman certainly flirts between Tokusatsu and Kaiju. It's not. What's the difference? Gamera, Godzilla, Cloverfield, the host, all of these like really focus on one specific Kaiju right, Whereas Ultraman is really about the hero fighting against. It's just a different lens. I would think of it as more similar to Power Rangers or Star Trek in its format versus like a very traditional Kaiju series.
Speaker 2:I'm going to disagree and say that it's a very traditional Kaiju series.
Speaker 1:Surprise, surprise.
Speaker 2:Because it helped write the book on what a Kaiju series is.
Speaker 1:I mean Godzilla, predates Ultraman.
Speaker 2:Yes, but series. You know, godzilla was the pioneer of the Kaiju film, but Ultraman seemingly pioneered the creature of the week motif in the Tokusatsu trope. For anyone who's not terribly familiar with the ins and outs of Ultraman which is, I'm going to assume, is most Humanity is given the beta capsule by this alien, the alien being seemingly Ultraman Humanity is given the beta capsule by this alien race, and the beta capsule looks like a little detonator with a little silver cylinder with a button on it and when you push it, whoever has it turns into an Ultra. Or you know, ultraman for three minutes and that's it. And so, like, that was always like the big pressure because, like, when you are Ultraman you're basic, you're like, you're basically invincible, you're a gosh darn superhero.
Speaker 1:But the human body can't sustain being Ultraman for more than three minutes. That's the idea.
Speaker 2:That's like that's the kryptonite, right. You just need to have that fatal flaw. Sure, like I only knew about this because of Ready Player One. Talk about pop culture overload, but you know that has references to just about every every you know nerdy sci-fi thing in existence, and in that you know they get the beta capsule as like a mystic item and it lets somebody turn into Ultraman for three minutes and just like seriously kick ass, but after that time is up you're fucked. So I can just imagine that that comes into play again and again throughout the series.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, it's a fun trope, for sure. It's like fun to have a limitation on a creature or on a thing, right? Obviously not on a creature, but it adds a level of tension to it. Each time you know that that's gonna be deployed.
Speaker 2:Oh yes.
Speaker 1:So Ultraman, as is obvious, became a sensation in Japan. Between its release in 1966 until about the 1980s, the franchise brought in about $7.5 billion in revenue.
Speaker 2:Hot dang.
Speaker 1:Wikipedia compares Ultraman in Japan to Superman in the United States.
Speaker 2:But only for three minutes.
Speaker 1:It became so popular. It was the third best-selling licensed character globally in the 1980s. One piece that Alan hasn't yet revealed about Ultraman is-.
Speaker 2:Because I know very little about Ultraman.
Speaker 1:Is that the series is about a species called the Ultras, an alien species that was once similar to humans, but after their sun went out, they replaced it with a faux sun called the plasma spark, and then they evolved into this alien race. As a result of that, the Ultraman TV show was also allowed to use Toho's prop department.
Speaker 2:Oh, just a quick side note right there. There's definitely some there's definitely not an overlap between everything. Toho, yeah, because like I remember calling this out just watching the very first episode, the stupid little ringtone when somebody just like-.
Speaker 1:Hit a button on the control panel.
Speaker 2:Well, it's when they get a call. Is the King Ghidorah roar? I always thought the King Ghidorah roar sounded like super weird. It doesn't really make sense for a I don't know gigantic three-headed monster to sound like that. But I mean, that's why it's just an asset that is being reused for budget cost reasons. It's just so ironic that it became so iconic. And then I googled this just to see if I was crazy or not, because I'm like it's a fucking ringtone, is it really King Ghidorah's roar? And it turned out to be just like a stock sound effect on like a digital synthesizer. That's why they used it, because, again, budgets.
Speaker 1:There you go. When you say King Ghidorah, really fast it sounds like you're saying King Ghidorah.
Speaker 2:King Ghidorah yeah.
Speaker 1:So on the TV show side, there's also a spin-off and sequel Ultraman series through the 1980s. Ultraman is a Kaiju franchise because of the monsters that constantly need to be defeated. Some of the top monsters include triangular Golba, trigardark, carmera and Dada.
Speaker 2:You absolutely just googled that list, didn't you?
Speaker 1:I know I googled it, but I pulled in the ones that I thought were the most interesting sounding.
Speaker 2:There's no pictures. Can you describe them to us?
Speaker 1:I'll put a post on Instagram. How about that?
Speaker 2:Sure, thank you. I think Ultraman's real influence to the Kaiju genre is that it really established the trope like a giant robot fighting monsters.
Speaker 1:Which we see again in Pacific Rim.
Speaker 2:And 10,000 other places which we'll talk about yeah, but I mean he's not a robot, he's an ultra, but for all intents and purposes he pretty much looks like a robot.
Speaker 1:But he also has superhuman powers, which is similar to a robot, right Sure, and it's beyond human power, right?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it's not just like giant guy, he's not Ant-Man, he's not just getting big, despite the fact that there's some similarities to the helmet.
Speaker 1:Does the Ant-Man get big? Yeah, does it get small? He gets both.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't know that it's like the big reveal when he's like well, what happens when I turn it backwards?
Speaker 1:And then he just gets big yeah.
Speaker 2:But I feel like that's like the crux of Ultraman. There's not like the Godzilla or the Gamera. That is kind of an antihero that was once a monster but is a monster that can kind of get repurposed for humanity's needs, right.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You know, becomes the savior, despite the fact that they are a monster themselves. At no point is Ultraman a bad guy. He's just the hero, because it's a normal guy that uses an artifact to become this gigantic superhero. I don't. I'm very curious to find out, like the history of superheroes in Japan, like, was Ultraman, like the superhero, that kind of like, defined what superheroes were going to be in Japan, or were there ones that predated?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there were, but it's an interesting question to have answered at some point.
Speaker 2:Like this is something that pops up again in Ready Player One. How, even when superheroes like Western superheroes get their own Japanese like re-release, if you will like Spider-Man, yeah, when. So Japanese Spider-Man also has this like gigantic mech that he walks around and fights monsters with you know, because, why not? That's just what you do in Japan.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's cool.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know. I just got to say my final thoughts on Ultraman are that it's a franchise that I know I will love it's. I just don't know my jumping off point. I've Googled lists about like where to start watching. You know there's, there's, there's, shin Ultraman. I do know that. So you know same people that made Shin Godzilla Shin just being new and it's a total reboot of the franchise. But is that the best place to start? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Why don't you start with the first film?
Speaker 2:Because the first film comes after the TV show and I'm not sure if it's like again. Think of Power Rangers. Power Rangers had a first movie and it was the segue between the first. I don't know if it was the first season. We're going to have to contact our friends from Alpha to Zed but that was the segue from when they went from like Mighty Morphin, power Rangers to the Ninja ones. You know, it was just like an interseason segue. That was the movie.
Speaker 1:Man, you just made me so nostalgic for Power Rangers. It just I felt it in my heart.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying, like you just.
Speaker 1:I fucking loved Power Rangers.
Speaker 2:I want to know all about this. I want to enjoy all this.
Speaker 1:You need a from Alpha to Zed version of for Ultraman. If anyone out there knows a lot about Ultraman, get in touch.
Speaker 2:Please get in touch Say where's a good jumping off point. I'm just going to start with Ultra Q and just go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really like Ultra Q.
Speaker 2:But it also is only available on YouTube that I could find, I'm sure, but I'm sure there's a streaming service somewhere that has these things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sure We'll have to figure it out, you know we're not.
Speaker 2:we're not about to track down the VHS tapes, so yeah, we'll circle back at some point.
Speaker 1:Yes, more to come. Okay, let's talk about Gamera.
Speaker 2:Just going to put it there, huh.
Speaker 1:Well, you, you have a lot to say about Gamera. You've seen a lot of Gamera films.
Speaker 2:I won't say a lot, but at least more than Ultraman. More than Ultraman by magnitudes.
Speaker 1:So Gamera is a Kaiju in the form of a giant turtle, who can also fly and breathe fire.
Speaker 2:I'm going to stab you right there.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:He doesn't breathe fire.
Speaker 1:He exhales fire.
Speaker 2:No, he shoots fireballs from his mouth. Yes, like Bowser.
Speaker 1:Okay. But, I'm noted in logs.
Speaker 2:I mean Bowser, a turtle right.
Speaker 1:He's just a small Kaiju.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, except on some boss levels. But, like, the similarities between Bowser and Gamera cannot be ignored. Gamera is a direct competitor to Godzilla Correct. Unlike Ultraman, there's no studio overlap. This was someone trying to cash in on a very popular motif in Japan, and so they started their own franchise of Gamera. Like, when was the first Gamera film?
Speaker 1:Gamera the giant monster hit theaters in 1965. Meant to be a direct competitor to the success of the Godzilla franchise.
Speaker 1:You don't say All in all, there are 12 films spanning from 1965 through 2006. Within these films, the character of Gamera evolves from destructive and scary to a protector of humanity. The Gamera films have been met with mixed response. On one hand they're called out for being derivative of Godzilla a clear ripoff but in some cases their success has rivaled the Godzilla franchise in Japan in terms of popularity. So the first Gamera film was released in the US as well as in Japan, but all of the subsequent films were only released locally. They weren't released in the US.
Speaker 2:I see. Okay, yeah, gamera is a very like. That's a name that few people are going to recognize, right the same, even if you just like, show the image of this like tusked turtle For any. For anyone that has no idea what we're talking about, you can either Google a picture of Gamera or you can just picture slash from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles live action movie, secret of the Use, which was a giant tortoise who had tusks. All these movies, despite only being released in Japan, like he was almost as popular as Godzilla. It was, you know, very similar to a like Marvel versus DC type rivalry for superheroes in the western world. You know, in America it was just Godzilla. This was a franchise that I was not very familiar with. You know, again, prepping for this episode, I did my due diligence. Yes, there's only 12 films, but still, 12 movies is a lot to watch. Yeah, I chose not to watch the original and instead started with the best of the best, which, fortunately, is unanimous decision.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:According to the whatever like garbage new movie news websites that I subscribed to Sure. So this starts with the 1995 Gamera Guardian of the Universe, and this is part of a full trilogy of films. Now, not only are these movies absolutely fantastic, unlike most Godzilla movies it's a full continuation, it's a trilogy where one leads into the next and it's one continuous story from start to finish, and that's not something you often get in these Kaiju films. It's a very I don't, it feels like a very western thing, but here you know a 100% Japanese movie and it fucking slaps.
Speaker 1:And, out of the three, which was your favorite?
Speaker 2:That's irrelevant.
Speaker 1:It's irrelevant. It's irrelevant why.
Speaker 2:Because all three are one continuous story. You have to, if you're going to watch one, watch all three.
Speaker 1:Okay. Well then talk us through it, tell us more. Okay, Wet my whistle.
Speaker 2:Here we go. So for me, the main takeaway is that this is a non-Godzilla Kaiju movie, right Whatever, but it has money. Like these are big budget films.
Speaker 1:More big budget than Godzilla.
Speaker 2:I mean we're in 1995. Godzilla in 90s Godzilla like also had money. But what I'm trying to say is, seeing a non-Godzilla movie with a budget is rare.
Speaker 1:For that time period, for like the 60s, you mean.
Speaker 2:No, we're talking in the 90s.
Speaker 1:From the 90s.
Speaker 2:So I mean, yeah, you have Cold War Film, pacific Rim, Colossal, that's it. But those are all Western movies. To see a Japanese Kaiju film that's not Godzilla, still have a massive like Hollywood level budget is awesome and it's so freaking cool. Also, like these films are really, really polished. The draw about Godzilla is you see atomic lizard beat the shit out of other monsters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's the draw of Gomera?
Speaker 2:So you get that.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Also something that is a complete rarity not Not unheard of, but it's a rarity. In Godzilla franchises the humans are likable. You actually have like good fleshed out characters with good writing and dialogue and a fucking plot. Outside of bonkers beating the shit out of each other. You get some really good heartfelt stories just in this one trilogy, because you know it's one story from start to finish.
Speaker 1:Okay, so Ultraman, Gamera and Godzilla are in an arena. Who wins?
Speaker 2:You're pivoting hard.
Speaker 1:I'm not pivoting. I'm just trying to place Gamera and Ultraman in comparison to the strength of Godzilla.
Speaker 2:I mean which versions of which?
Speaker 1:So okay, so you're saying generally there's not a clear winner. It's not that Ultraman is always weaker and Gamera's always stronger. It could be any, it could be a wash, or maybe just do Gamera versus Godzilla. I'm just trying to understand, I guess, the scale and power of the character of Gamera versus the scale and power of Godzilla.
Speaker 2:It's a fair question. However, you know it's like which version of Godzilla. Sometimes Godzilla destroys spaceships from Earth by, you know, a complete orbital bombardment right, Sure, and wipes out all of you know, forces humanity to flee the planet because he takes over Earth, yeah. Other times he gets his ass handed to him by a large praying mantis, you know.
Speaker 1:I understand.
Speaker 2:So it depends on who's writing. Ultraman's a massive superhero that I assume has such a long franchise that I can only imagine Power Creep has made him deal with universe-ending threats at some point or another.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:So Gamera keeps the story kind of small. Eons ago he was just like a. There was like a bad, evil energy and there was a good and there was a good energy and the good energy formed itself into the avatar of Gamera and it fought this bad energy in the form of Giles, which was this like pterodactyl thing, right?
Speaker 1:So that's our main villain? Yes, in the first film, yep.
Speaker 2:Because, like you know, eggs hatch because of bad energy and shit. And then Gamera reawakens, who used to sleep on the bottom of the ocean, very similar to Godzilla.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's in. You know he's a turtle. So there's like this there's this island that's floating around. I'm like, wait a minute, there's this island, it's moving, but guess what? It's Gamera. Sorry, spoilers, spoilers While you're seeing, yeah, these like big blowout battles. That's not like. That's not all the movie has to offer, though, like what I was saying about how you get some like really wonderful human stories, right, you also get something and this is something I'd never saw in Godzilla which is like the human side of the military You're seeing. You know the military do what the military does. Whenever you time, a giant monster appears, right, yeah, but you get to actually like know a lot of this, like the soldiers and the officers. You see them outside of uniform, like at home or just like trying to plan, trying to protect their families.
Speaker 1:Right. So, unlike Godzilla and a lot of the films we're going to discuss next, it's not necessarily a commentary on like government response and military action. Or if it is, it's not as important as highlighting the humanity of the people themselves.
Speaker 2:But it I'm going to say it's important, but it doesn't highlight the. It's not poking fun at the shameful bureaucracy, instead it's. There's this monstrous threat.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And the military is trying to respond to it, while also, like every time when these monsters shows up, gamera shows up and beats the crap out of it or tries to. Also, gamera is kind of flawed. These monsters are just are basically as strong as he is. So you know he does a pretty good job, but like you see him get his ass handed to him and you know like get hurt and bleed and all these things which you see. You see sometimes in Godzilla. You know King Ghidorah beats the crap out of Godzilla every time they fight, but for the majority of times it's not so much of a struggle, but in this, like humanity can't deal with these monsters, they have to embrace utilizing a giant monster, but that comes with a lot of baggage and while this comes up in other films I hadn't seen this Gamera really does a wonderful job of showcasing the horror of being a human caught in the middle of a kaiju battle.
Speaker 1:That sounds terrifying.
Speaker 2:It really is.
Speaker 1:It's kind of reminding me a little bit of like not one for one, obviously, but just like the humanity of a film like Train to Busan, where you have thousands of zombie films right that are made in a certain way and then you have a film like Train to Busan. That is really like heart-wrenching. It shows like a different humanity to like this very specific genre.
Speaker 2:Gamera is probably closer to horror than anything else on this list outside of original Godzilla or like Cloverfield.
Speaker 1:Interesting Okay.
Speaker 2:Because you see some like really horrific deaths, yeah, via collateral damage, right, and you know it's simple. You know sometimes, as simple as you know, a monster falls into a building. Okay, well, that was an apartment building that was full of people's homes. You know, like entire families were just like wiped out and that's usually just kind of like hand-waved away.
Speaker 1:Right in Godzilla you see him trample over a hundred buildings, but you don't see what's inside of them. That's right, Right.
Speaker 2:In the third part of the Gamera trilogy, like that's the big plot point. Because there's a girl whose family was killed by Gamera, Not maliciously but just like fucking stepped on, you know. She finds a Kaiju egg, raises it it's not quite a Kaiju egg but for all intents and purposes and raises it with, like her, hatred for Gamera.
Speaker 1:Intents.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to just like take revenge for all of the humanity that he's murdered, that he's killed in his battles while trying to protect them. It's like he walks this, like he has to walk this line between being this protector character, but it's really fleshed out. Something that you see in Gamera and non-Godzilla is like his active attempt to protect humanity. The bad monster will, you know, shoot a will like throw something right and Gamera will actively like dive to stop the thing from hitting the bus that is full of people.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You know like he's actively trying to protect.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And still like hundreds of meters tall and fighting inside Tokyo, right so there's going to be collateral damage Totally. But that's really well explored and the emotional gravitas is not ignored.
Speaker 1:Awesome. I love that. That's such an interesting element that I feel like is missing, not to, maybe, modern day Kaiju films, which we're about to shift into, but to a lot of these, you know, original trendsetters. That's really. I'm kind of actually intrigued by this. You've influenced me.
Speaker 2:Just like as a big plot point, there's one showdown between Gamera and Gaios. They have. I'm trying to remember what the decision is that the humans have to make.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it has to do with you know like, whether or not they want to try to just like get them out of the city. Maybe they're trying to call Gamera in the first place because there's also there's this whole subplot of like, like priestesses having a link to Gamera, similar to like Moffra yeah.
Speaker 2:And so like that's how we get Gamera's like thoughts and feelings, like through the priestesses, yeah, but they have in a non-evacuated city and like normally they evacuate right Immediately, but they're kind of caught off guard, I guess, and it happens in a non-evacuated city and you see really, really graphic collateral damage of people and at the end of it the body count is 17,000.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:Which makes sense. Yeah, like think about it I mean absolutely. Think about a block in New.
Speaker 1:York.
Speaker 2:City.
Speaker 1:Think about the building we're in right now alone.
Speaker 2:Right, if some. If, like a monster, tramples a couple city, blocks thousands and thousands of people are dead.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And yeah, this is the 90s Gamera and they're already dealing with it.
Speaker 1:The last building we lived in had 500 units and it wasn't even like a super high-rise building.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, one building, and this is even more dense. You know Japanese cities, right? I tried to find if there was any kind of Gamera Godzilla crossover and the answer is no. Well, sorry, that's not fair. There's never like a movie where they fight.
Speaker 1:That makes sense, because then you'd have to have competing studios work together Right.
Speaker 2:And license it. But you know we've had Marvel and DC crossovers. We've had Spider-Man and Batman do stuff together. There was like one crossover game.
Speaker 1:Like a video game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but there was one crossover and I know they competed in sports. I think it was like bowling or something.
Speaker 1:It's picturing them playing like soccer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it was something really silly, like where they both went bowling. That's funny, that's cute. But yeah, I'd have to refresh in exactly what that was.
Speaker 1:Fair enough. Well, thank you, Alan, for doing your duty when it comes to Gamera. We appreciate the service that you've provided to us all.
Speaker 2:You're welcome.
Speaker 1:I now want to talk about some films that I think everyone will be way more familiar with than all of the films we've talked about in this series so far. So very modern Kaiju films Like we're talking, like the 2000s and onward, and the first film we're going to talk about is actually one that we did a special bonus episode about last month on Patreon. So for anyone who supports us there, you already know all about our feelings on the host, which is one of my favorite films, and we're going to talk about it. The host is a 2006 Korean film. It was directed by Bong Joon-ho, who also directed Parasite. The host follows a father and his family who are trying to get his daughter back after a giant monster emerges from a river and steals her away. At the time of its release, the host was the highest grossing Korean film of all time. The opening scene of the film shows a mortician who is instructed to dump bottles of formaldehyde down the drain.
Speaker 2:Dirty dusty formaldehyde.
Speaker 1:Dirty formaldehyde? No, it's dusty.
Speaker 2:It's not dirty, it's just dusty. That's the whole reason he's getting rid of it.
Speaker 1:Despite his protest about environmental concerns. This is actually based on true events, where a Korean mortician working for the US government was indeed instructed to do this.
Speaker 2:Because it was dusty.
Speaker 1:Politically, the film is both critical of the South Korean and American governments, and that is a very, very, very central and poignant theme in this film. The South Korean government is made to look aloof and bureaucratic, while the Americans are made to look diabolical. The film's references to Agent Yellow clearly call upon similarities to Agent Orange. Quoting from the director quote it's a stretch to simplify the host as an anti-American film, but there is certainly a metaphor and political commentary about the US end quote Between frustrating characters and obstacles, the host is visually stunning and poetic, especially its ending sequence, which, of course, we will not spoil for you, but please go watch it. And it remains not only one of my favorite Kaiju films but one of my favorite horror films in general. I'll tell my origin story of the host.
Speaker 1:My best friend in high school had me watch the host when we were in high school. It came out when I was around 16. It was one of those movies and I feel like I've referenced a few of these throughout this podcast where you watch it and you were like wow. I was like wow, I didn't know a film could be like this, because to me again for the time it felt genre-defying. You know, like, when my friend came up and he was like you're gonna watch this monster movie, I was like I'm not really into Kaiju film, you know, it's just not really my thing, but the host has so much.
Speaker 1:Again. It's similar to, I guess, what you're saying with Gamera or Trained to Busan, where it's really about the family and it's about the struggle and the frustration and it's also about bureaucracy and all these things. But the emotional element of it, combined with this like creature feature, was something that I had never seen before at the time and it really kind of struck home with me and resonated and was like, wow, that's something I wish I could do is make something like that.
Speaker 2:So this was something that we talked about in a pretty extensive deep dive on our Patreon episode, so I'm not gonna go too much into it. The only thing that I will reiterate is that, before you convinced me, I did not consider this a Kaiju film.
Speaker 1:We debated it quite a bit in that episode.
Speaker 2:I am in the minority here because the host appears on every single best Kaiju film of all time list. However, I still classify it as much more of a creature feature than I do of a Kaiju film.
Speaker 1:And that's simply because of the size of the monster.
Speaker 2:It's too little. Okay, at the time, though, you asked me what's my favorite like monster movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like. What do I think of when I think of like creature feature, monster movie, that type of thing? What I really should have said at the time is the thing Because for me that's a perfect creature feature you have just kind of like the unknown which is very much a theme in the host. It's all about the other, every the creature is just so unknowable.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You never learn anything about it's wants, it's desires, it's personality. It's just foreign, Right? Maybe this is because it's just a one-off, it's not a franchise where you're not seeing like the host to still hosting. Maybe then you start to explore some background, but in this it's just like a super weird, uncomfortable thing that just is fucking people up and eating them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's all because of some dusty formaldehyde.
Speaker 2:Yeah, keep your dusty bottles, folks. It's not worth it.
Speaker 1:It's not worth it. You're going to ruin someone's day.
Speaker 2:Or family.
Speaker 1:Both.
Speaker 2:That's all we have to say about the host, but yeah, if you want to hear much more rambling about the host, check out the Patreon episode.
Speaker 1:Chronologically, the next film that we have to talk about within the Kaiju genre is Cloverfield from 2008.
Speaker 2:Oh boy.
Speaker 1:Cloverfield is a found footage film. It was a major sensation in 2008 when it came out. I remember going to see it. The film was directed by Matt Reeves and produced by JJ Abrams. It stars Lizzie Kaplan and TJ Miller. Just a fun fact here, before I unleash you onto the audience, Alan, which is that the creature in Cloverfield was added after production, meaning cast members had to react to an invisible monster while filming. And also just pointing out that it's a CGI monster, right Similar to the host, I assume, but very dissimilar to, like, Godzilla Gamera. You know some of those franchises.
Speaker 2:No rubber suits here, that's right.
Speaker 1:In an interview, the director revealed that he had established an unseen origin story for the Kaiju so that they could direct him and motivate his actions. And the story is about the Cloverfield monster being separated from his mother and being like scared and terrified, looking for his mother. And that's what's motivating like his seemingly erratic actions.
Speaker 2:That's an unfair amount of empathy that I now have to give this thing.
Speaker 1:We'll go ahead, so sure to say.
Speaker 2:So one big talking point on the found footage episode was that I watched Cloverfield in theaters in 2008.
Speaker 1:As did I.
Speaker 2:This was my best of all time theatrical experience. The whole audience was invested. I cared so much about the characters. I had such an amazing time watching this movie in theaters that I decided then and there that I could never watch it again because I'd just be chasing that dragon. Sure, you know, I remember thinking the movie was so, so incredible and for the first time ever in a horror movie I really cared about the characters. There's that one scene when they're in the subway, when I just they're just debating what to do, and I remember in theaters thinking just like, just stay put, just hide, don't go outside. Like I was emotionally invested in their well-being and you just don't get that in horror movies. You're like you know what? Actually, go check out that noise. You know why? Don't you go and split up? Go upstairs.
Speaker 1:See what happens. I think that says more about you than about most people's experience with horror movies. I think most people are rooting for the survival of the characters, but I understand what you're saying that these were. This was a horror film that was successful at making you invested.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you cared about the characters Well. So for this episode I broke my oath and I rewatched Cloverfield.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah.
Speaker 2:I was expecting to be very let down and I was very surprised that it was quite the opposite you still loved it. Not only was it such a great movie, but now that I can watch it through after so many years of living in New York City, that it holds this whole other level of gravitas, because you see just like what it's like to be in the city that I know so well, just trying to survive as literally the city is collapsing around you.
Speaker 1:And that feels like a reality more and more every day, of some situation we could face. I guess what I'm trying to say is there's that fear that there could be not necessarily a kaiju, but something where we have to figure out how to survive.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and everyone has their exit plan or their survival plan or what they're going to do. But all that goes out the window when you have a fucking kaiju destroying the city and your plan to get out by the nearest bridge or the subway. When the thing just walks through and destroys a bridge or a single leg punctures down to the subway tracks, all this goes right out the window. And also the story focuses on the people, not the monster. I couldn't even tell you what the monster. I didn't remember what the monster looked like because you'd see so few glimpses of it. It's huge. I think it's one of the biggest kaiju.
Speaker 2:The military is trying to deal with it, pretty unsuccessfully, but again, that stands to reason. The military's sole purpose is for killing other humans. They're not prepared to deal with this skyscraper, tall monster. And what you're saying about it just like trying to deal with it, trying to find a home. I get that. That comes through in the film because it seemingly has some kind of motivation. That's unknown, but it does have some kind of motivation. It's not just wantonly destroying, it's trying to do a thing, but no one knows what that thing is.
Speaker 2:It's a really terrifying film. I remember on this last rewatch I was on the edge of my seat, just so emotionally uncomfortable as these characters who you build up a lot of their backstory and then you just watch someone just get ripped apart. This also establishes a kaiju trope of the kaiju parasite. You have the big monster but you have a bunch of little monsters that live on the big monster. So you might be safe inside of a building, you might be safe from the big monster. The big monster is not going to find you inside a building. Might destroy the building, right, but it's not going to just seek you out.
Speaker 2:But the little stabby spidery things certainly are, and they're all over the place and they're just creepy as fuck. Anything with too many legs is creepy. And then when you have swarms of them that just are falling off the big kaiju, that's terrifying.
Speaker 1:You know what's interesting is, I remember figuring out that I was wrong about this when we talked about Clover Field during our found footage series. But when I first saw Clover Field in 2008 in the theater, I walked away thinking that the creature was an alien from space, and I don't think that there's any context clues for that in the film. But for some reason just based on my brain at the time, I thought for until we talked about it again during the found footage series, I always thought of Clover Field as almost like a war of the world's type film.
Speaker 2:Is it ever explored? They never give you an origin.
Speaker 1:No, but for some reason I just put that assumption on it and I thought it was true.
Speaker 2:Well, I know there's two sequels which I don't think I've seen. I haven't seen it because I just rewatched the original which was quite the undertaking, but I'll happily watch the sequels now. It's a hard movie to watch If you live in a city you can empathize so much about, just like the decisions that the characters have to make.
Speaker 1:Everything is a gamble. There's nothing is necessarily a good plan, because anything could happen.
Speaker 2:But it's not even about your own survival. One of the characters' main goals he splits with the. His love interest, is hurt and calls him before the cell networks go down. He's in the wrong part of the city, but she's calling for help because she's trapped. And so what do you do in that situation? Everything, including the military, is saying get the fuck out of this, out of the city. Right now, your instincts to protect someone who you care about is saying help me, I'm trapped and it's a very familiar place. It's her apartment building, where you've been 1,000 times. You just want to go get this person. It's just like you see this conflict on the characters Great acting, well written, too much emotion.
Speaker 1:What would you do if I was calling you and I was trapped?
Speaker 2:You don't think logically at all. Of course, I'd save you.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:I mean I tried Probably dying. The process could stab a little spidery thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that's romantic.
Speaker 2:It's a very complicated movie for me and I love it very much.
Speaker 1:I love that. We love a complicated movie and man. In 2013, garimot Del Toro brought us Pacific Rim. This film is important because it brings us a modern Kaiju story that's outside of the Godzilla universe but is closer to series like Gamera and Godzilla than a film like Cloverfield is.
Speaker 1:Del Toro has said that he drew inspiration from the painting called the Colossus by Francisco de Goya. I'll also post this on our social media so you guys can take a look. It's believed to have been painted sometime after 1808. The painting depicts a giant looking man set against dwarfing hills in camps. Below. There are several other etchings and paintings by Goya that show a similar scene, which is just an interesting thing, and I'll say that the Colossus is really, if I was going to categorize it, it would be more giant than Kaiju. It's clearly like humanoid. It's not necessarily a monster. But this wasn't the only art that inspired Del Toro. He also tapped into Hokusai's the Great Wave off Kanagawa as a reference for the film's Ocean Battles, which is that very well-known Japanese wave drawing that's on a lot of t-shirts and in a lot of dorm rooms. Ok, alan, tell us about Pacific Rim.
Speaker 2:Oh boy.
Speaker 1:Take us inside the world. So first, off.
Speaker 2:it is a miracle that this movie exists in the first place. This was an incredibly high budget, super expensive movie to make and it's based on zero established intellectual property. This was not a franchise, this was not a superhero film that, despite the fact that Marvel was well underway, they really just took a gamble with Guillermo Del Toro and by giving him all this money to tell a very non-American story. And, holy fuck, is it cool. This is the love letter to every Kaiju film, every giant mech anime, every teenage boy that just wants to see robots punch monsters.
Speaker 1:And girls.
Speaker 2:Yes, this has something for everyone. It's just so goddamn cool. Like I have seen this movie many times but I just rewatched it again because I love it so much.
Speaker 1:Any excuse?
Speaker 2:But every time I take away new little tidbits. Del Toro's filmmaking style is very based in real something, whether it's a very real mythology. So many of the character designs from like Pan's Labyrinth are based off real mythological beasts, despite the fact that at no point is that important to the plot. The whole drift system of the Yagers in Pacific Ram. So the Yagers being the giant robots, they require two pilots. And that whole system was based off a real DARPA program that I only know about because I did a film shoot on it and that's fucking wild.
Speaker 1:Tell them about the film shoot.
Speaker 2:DARPA, being the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, is the US's. What was founded in the US during the Cold War so that they could be on the absolute bleeding edge of technology to stay ahead of the rest of the world. And this project that they were working on was to get fighter pilots who had been injured in line of duty back in action, really. So they had been injured so they couldn't physically fly the planes anymore, so they volunteered to have their brains surgically hardwired into computers so that they could control mechanical appendages with their brains.
Speaker 1:So cool.
Speaker 2:Which is crazy right.
Speaker 1:Wild mind blowing.
Speaker 2:But the part of this film shoot was that there's like a physical limitation about how one person cannot control more than two limbs. It requires a minimum of two people to operate something.
Speaker 1:That's complicated, and so that's clearly what inspired Del Toro.
Speaker 2:Yes, I always thought after seeing that, because I saw the movie before I did this film shoot. I always thought that it was simply a plot device so that the characters had someone to talk to, to give exposition to Well, it's both right.
Speaker 2:It is, but it's also based on real science, and I say real science because I saw this in action, which was fucking wild. I saw these quadriplegic soldiers who, injured in the line of duty, but still had millions of dollars of training, went into them to make them able to operate these fighter planes, and they had these cables hardwired into the back of their fucking heads.
Speaker 1:So I can't even fathom. I really can't even fathom it.
Speaker 2:But the wild thing was about that is that once your brain is just giving off the electrical signals, you don't have to be hard-cabled into the appendages Like they were operating like a mechanical hand right. Picking up the apple, putting it into the ball, but it wasn't on their arm.
Speaker 1:Their arm wasn't attached to the shoulder, it was on the other side of the room, because but my question is this OK, so you have a hard wire cable going into your brain and then you're just thinking, like I want the plane to keep flying, Like you know what I mean. Like, what are you doing?
Speaker 2:Well, how do I mean? How do you move your arms now? I know, but I'm saying like Like it's just something that you do, but how, I guess.
Speaker 1:But it's like how is the cable connecting? How is that information transmitting from a cable to a mechanical hand? You know, and I'm not asking you to answer that, I'm just saying that's the part for me where I believe what you're saying, but I'm so curious about because it's almost like one step away from singularity. It feels like you know. So it's like how is it possible? I'm just like in awe of it, but I believe that it's real.
Speaker 2:Well, once we've taken the biological electrical impulses and turned them into code, right. That's all that it's doing.
Speaker 1:But how is it doing that? How Well, I just need.
Speaker 2:Well, hang on, once. It's code, then you know. Think about Wi-Fi versus an ethernet cable. It's the same thing, it's just one is a wireless version of the other. Yeah, there's no reason that things have to be hard-cabled after it's been digitized.
Speaker 1:It also feels like, though you know and again I could be totally missing the science of this but okay, so say, if I'm driving a car with my hands, I'm controlling my physical body in a very specific way and I'm also thinking about other things, right, Yep, if you have a cable that's going into your head and it's trying to parse out the things you're doing to physically control a plane, versus just the random thoughts that you're having like it just feels like there's got to be a fail-safe there. Sure, like you know, people have. Like you're driving a car, people have thoughts of like fuck, I hope I don't hit this person. You know what if that comes through wrong, you know?
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm sure they have an intrusive thoughts filter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2:But that's all. Software encoding so interesting. But for me the wild takeaway was that this is real. This is based on real science that I have physically seen. Like you can go on YouTube. I don't know what you search for, but this is.
Speaker 1:We'll see if we can find it this has been declassified, which is why. That's why you got to go Correct.
Speaker 2:Because the theme of this of the film shoot we were doing is because they were studying the effects of hive mind, because they had, I love hive mind. Well, because about why it requires more than one person to operate something complicated, right. And if you put more people, daisy Chain together, like where is the point of denimation returns Right. Like that was what the shoot was about.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:But yeah, anyways, pacific Rim this movie was all about this spectacle. There is a very good plot about, you know, humans rising to the challenge to protect their earth and everything, but we're all in it to see robots fight giant monsters.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Boy does it deliver. However, the sequel of Pacific Rim 2 takes what should be such a slam-dunk formula and somehow made a bad movie.
Speaker 1:It happens, it happens it is.
Speaker 2:But that is a very clear example of what's good on paper doesn't necessarily translate well to everything else. Pacific Rim 1 had the spectacle, had everything, but it also had heart. You know, you cared about the characters, you cared about they, built up this, the world and the stakes, and just like people had individual character arcs. And in Pacific Rim 2, it's just like more monsters, more robots, more fighting. It just leans into the completely forgettable characters, it's too, bad it is, but also, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1:It sounds like classic studio meddling to me.
Speaker 2:It is Originally well. Del Toro was supposed to direct the second one, but he chose to step away.
Speaker 1:There's a reason for that.
Speaker 2:It is. Do you know what? It is what he went on? A direct shape of water.
Speaker 1:Ah, there you go.
Speaker 2:So it's like you know what. I'm just going to go win my Academy Wars instead and make an incredible film that I'm so glad exists and Pacific Rim 2 is still here, but we're never going to get a Pacific Rim 3 because they fucked it up so bad.
Speaker 1:Still rippin'. Tell us about Atlantic Rim.
Speaker 2:Oh boy, okay, we're just going to pivot hard then.
Speaker 1:Well, pacific to Atlantic, it's not that much of a pivot.
Speaker 2:Because we were gearing up for our Kaiju series, I naturally wanted to start with Pacific Rim, my favorite Kaiju film outside of Godzilla of course and Cloverfield. Well, but at that time I was determined to never watch Cloverfield again. Pacific Rim was taken off all streaming services, so in order to watch it you had to rent it, and you know it's a movie I'd already seen and I really want to spend money.
Speaker 1:And it's really opposed to spending any money on renting movies.
Speaker 2:Because we already spend so much money on streaming services. We have thousands and thousands of movies available to us.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it makes it really hard, though, because we need to watch specific movies for this podcast. We correct Sometimes you just have to eat the $1.99, you know this was $3.99.
Speaker 2:Okay, I understand. However, Atlantic Rim was free, so I said okay.
Speaker 1:How different can it be? How different can it be?
Speaker 2:So Atlantic Rim is identical in every way to Pacific Rim, with the slight difference of it was made for no money. It has awful acting, terrible effects, horrible plot and just overall it's a terrible movie. But this brought my attention to the production studio called the Asylum. So they make these movies. You know they make knockoffs of blockbuster films. They knocked off Sharknado. They made when Godzilla vs King Kong came out. They made like Lizard vs Monkey or something. What they do and I just because I was really curious their business model is a trailer for a big movie will come out and then, based off the trailer alone, they will write an entire film, shoot it and release it before the actual film comes to theaters, so that people who are really excited for the actual blockbuster movie might get confused and accidentally watch Atlantic Rim instead of Pacific.
Speaker 2:Rim or watch the Iron man knockoff, just because they're misinformed.
Speaker 1:Right, it's like an SEO game. A what Search engine optimization.
Speaker 2:Oh, don't know about that.
Speaker 1:It's, like you know, for anybody who's publishing content online, when you're adding descriptions and tags, it's all search terms that people are using. So sometimes people like misspell tags, because if you're searching the 10 best Kaiju films, there's probably 10,000 articles, but if somebody misspells the word Kaiju and your tag has the word Kaiju misspelled, then maybe your article will publish first, right Will come up in their search terms first. So it's about hacking algorithms so that your content appears above other content, which seems like exactly what they're trying to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because everyone's going to be searching Pacific Rim. Pacific Rim and Atlantic Rim will come up.
Speaker 2:That's the thing. But they make these movies for zero money. If your movie makes $100, they're probably turning a $90 profit.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's interesting. I'm looking up images from Atlantic Rim. It's definitely major similarities. It looks like yeah, it's like a video game.
Speaker 2:Well, I read an article about how Atlantic Rim, if you're really trying, could be a beautiful prequel to Pacific Rim, back when the robot program was in its fledgling days and, you know, was horribly flawed. So, and then eventually they flush it out and just make higher resolution robots, but every time you cut away, like, you never see the. You do see the monsters, you do see the robots, but you never see them more for like three seconds at a time, because CGI is expensive, right? You normally see nothing but reaction shots to the pilots, right, I'd say about half the movie, over half the movie, is reaction shots, which is a great tip for anyone looking to make a terrible movie.
Speaker 1:There, you go Okay.
Speaker 2:I mean, I could keep talking about Pacific Rim and the fun things about it, but we should really move on.
Speaker 1:We have a handful of films to round us out here, so we're going to briefly talk about a film called Colossal from 2016, which stars Anne Hathaway and Alan. You liked it quite a bit.
Speaker 2:This was a very unique Kaiju film, very similar to the Host. It appears on most best Kaiju films of all time. This is the only Kaiju rom-com you're ever going to encounter.
Speaker 1:All right, you've got me, I'm influenced.
Speaker 2:So the premise of this is that you have Anne Hathaway, who is just a dumpster fire of a human. She is like a straight up party girl blackout drunk, real mess, you know. However, when she blacks out, this gigantic monster appears in Seoul Korea. Basically is like her avatar.
Speaker 1:There's some link between.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know, like literally, then the monster will like, manifest, like phase into existence, and the monster will be completely oblivious to all the shit that's going on in Korea. But it will just, like you know, stomp around, fall over, be going through the motions of dragging an air mattress around. You know all the things that she's doing back in America.
Speaker 1:It's a cool concept, it is.
Speaker 2:And then Anne Hathaway's boyfriend, basically separates from her because it's more of just a. You have to get your shit together, like I love you very much but for the love of God, you're a mess and I'm just, I can't keep enabling you. And then this new guy that she meets, not romantically but this other like mess of a human, gets the same curse if you will. And so they eventually just figure out that they are linked to these kaiju in Seoul, korea, and so they have to balance figuring out their lives, getting back on track in America, while simultaneously dealing with the grief of their killing thousands of people. Every time that you know they make a bad decision.
Speaker 1:Yeah, damn, it's a lot to unpack. Okay, so we also just have to mention, because, as we sit here and we record, something amazing just happened. The TV is on, has you know, just like the Netflix screensavers scrolling advertising shows, and it just advertised a new Gamera series that's launching on Thursday on Netflix.
Speaker 2:It's true.
Speaker 1:So by the time this airs, it will already have launched Everyone. Go watch the new Gamera series.
Speaker 2:We can't endorse it just yet.
Speaker 1:But watch it, it feels timely.
Speaker 2:Netflix has rebooted the big three. They did Godzilla, which is the version of Godzilla, where he makes, he conquers earth and makes human. It's like in the far distant future. They have an Ultraman series which is like. I watched the first couple episodes but I had to stop because I felt like I was jumping into something mid season.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you need the originals before you jump in.
Speaker 2:Despite the fact that this is a brand new series. There were just so many references that I wasn't getting and I hate that I have to start from the beginning. But Gamera like how many references can they really make?
Speaker 1:Plus you've done some diligence with.
Speaker 2:Gamera. That's true, Netflix also has. There's another Godzilla series. The fuck is it called.
Speaker 1:The animated one.
Speaker 2:They're all. All these Netflix ones are animated. All the Ultraman, the Godzilla and the Gamera they're all animated.
Speaker 1:Well, the Godzilla animation was a trilogy of three films.
Speaker 2:Yes, but there's a new that's called Godzilla, singularity, something like that, and it was a very, very ambitious plot that has to do with like overarching, like the purpose of humanity tripping through time, really convoluted. If anyone really likes the scope of like Evangelion, you'll like this. But if you've seen the tons of Godzilla every single monster or character with a reference to something- yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:So I just wanted to say that because it just happened and it was sort of incredible.
Speaker 2:That's fair.
Speaker 1:Two final films that we're going to briefly mention before we inch closer to the finale of this series. So thank you to our friend Kyle, who requested that we talk about Rampage, the Movie from 2018. Especially because this calls back to the Animal vs Kaiju discussion that we got into during part one, rampage tells the story of three animals who become infected and are at risk of destroying Chicago. It stars both the rock and Naomi Harris, and it was previously a video game as well.
Speaker 2:The rampage video game was one of my absolute favorite games growing up. We didn't have home video games, we weren't allowed. But we did love to go to the arcade and there was a rampage cabinet there and I played the shit out of that game. It's so it's like as a junk child. It's very hard. First off, the game is insanely long.
Speaker 1:Is that how you've gotten so good at video games?
Speaker 2:No, I'm still bad at video games.
Speaker 1:It's not true.
Speaker 2:Just come. I'm just good compared to you, but this game is insanely long. There's so many levels and you but you play as one of three monsters.
Speaker 1:You're you ever beat it.
Speaker 2:No, I don't have that many quarters. Maybe now as an adult. Maybe, just really tap into the 401k yeah. Okay, so you got one of three monsters.
Speaker 1:Lizzie the lizard.
Speaker 2:Lizzie the lizard.
Speaker 1:George the wolf. Yeah and Ralph.
Speaker 2:Ralph the wolf.
Speaker 1:Ralph the wolf and George the ape. Yes, there you go.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I don't think, I don't know if there was much of a mythos in the game or the backstory, but in the movie they make it very crystal clear.
Speaker 2:Yeah of how they're doing science experiments, which is your first mistake. They're doing science experiments in space because it's so dangerous that you can't do them on earth with this like growth serum, right, and Then it gets out of control, it destroys the space station and it crashes to earth. But there's like remnants of the experiment that crash land, you know, in the US yeah, and. In fact, three different animals, one being George the ape. Who is First off? This is I love the rock, he's my, he's my go-to guy for watching movies on planes.
Speaker 2:He's your guy and I watch this movie on a plane, for you know, flying from I think it was LA to New York, so from Hollywood to the other film capital of the US very poignant. He plays a Gorilla zoo to zoo tamer guy, whatever that zoologist zookeeper zookeeper, that's the word. Yeah, and he like he's working.
Speaker 2:He's working with this gorilla who can do sign language. You know, like, just like in Congo, this gorilla gets infected with the growth hormone to become this like gigantic fucking kaiju. But it also infects Ralph the wolf who, just like the game, also has like spines and shit. That can you know, poke people, sure? Also, lizzie is a Alligator, it just it also crashed land in a swamp and now there's a giant fucking alligator that's fucking up people. And the film just deals with the military response to a kaiju.
Speaker 2:Very on theme with a lot of these films it is, but you get the added bonus of the rock.
Speaker 1:Our hero.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want to see the rock in a Godzilla film. The last thing I want to say about rampage, though, is that since a young age, I loved kaiju or just like giant monster video games, and I Tried for this episode to find the perfect kaiju video game. It's a really hard. It's a hard nut to crack. There's tons, there's so many Godzilla games, and most of them are garbage. There's, they're just not good. However, I did come across one game that Due to DLC has of has four Godzilla characters, and it does finally scratch the itch of being Godzilla and Fighting other monsters in the city, and that's gigabash which I've played.
Speaker 1:I'm quite good at it.
Speaker 2:You are quite good at it.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of fun for anyone you get to do things like rip out buildings and throw them at the other kaiju, or be a building. You could be a building you can.
Speaker 2:that's the one, I'm the best at.
Speaker 1:The other ones are all pretty hard for me. There's one where you have to like Pull flying saucers from the air and throw them, and that one is particularly hard for me.
Speaker 2:But there's a bunch of mini games, yeah it's just like a.
Speaker 1:It's like a bunch of mini games. It's fun. You don't have to be good at video games, it's. It's a joy.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of fun, highly recommended the last film I'm gonna talk about in the kaiju series, which seems a little bit of a Letdown, but so in 2018, the same year that rampage came out, a film called the Meg was also released a group of scientists exploring the Marianas trench, which is my favorite part of the ocean Encounter the largest marine predator that has ever existed the Megalodon. The Meg stars Jason Statham and Rain Wilson, and the Meg 2 just came out this summer in 2023. Tagline new Meg, old chum. There seems to be a lot of debate online around whether or not the Meg is a Kaiju film series or not, and it kind of is in the same thing as rampage and King Kong, and you know it's what we talked about a lot in the first episode. You know, giant existing animals versus giant net new creatures. But I'm just gonna we don't need to talk about it, I'm just gonna put it there as sort of a period on the discussion of Animals versus monsters.
Speaker 1:Alan and I have different opinions on it, doesn't really matter, sure you know sure also, though before we kind of Conclude with my deep philosophical points, about Kaiju films, and you also have some book series to talk about.
Speaker 2:I mean there's a number of Kaiju books, comics. It translates much better to a visual medium, so there's lots of Godzilla comic books. There's a whole manga series about Kaiju. I just finished reading everything released from Kaiju number eight, which is a manga series that's ongoing, but in terms of just like just novel format, it's tricky because the allure of the of a Kaiju is the spectacle, sure, and if you strip that away and leave it to just the theater of the mind, it just depends if you're a creative person or not, right, Well?
Speaker 2:it just has to be About. It just has to have something else. There too, you know, it has to have the emotional component of the human, has to have like some really deep personal story, or just has to be a fucking killer writer that Makes the Kaiju so scary in your mind that it sells it absolutely so.
Speaker 1:Which are the? But you did read a book that was I bought for you because it was recommended by one of the friends of the pod so there's this book called.
Speaker 2:The book was called Kaiju Preservation Society by John Scalzi, and he has a author's note at the end of the book and it sums it up perfectly, where he said how he was in the middle of writing. You know some like really heavy emotional works full of deep characters and Subtext and all the things that make for great novels. Sure, he just needed a break from that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was writing it and then the pandemic started and the pandemic was a really dark time, yeah, and so he instead wrote this super silly Kaiju movie that takes place during the pandemic. It's fun where there's like delivery guy is out of work because pandemic.
Speaker 2:Yeah you're sorry, he knows this, this guy who's working at this startup and and then the pandemic starts and he's out of a job and he's just like a delivery guy because everyone only has, like you know, gets all their food delivered because there's no restaurants are open anymore. Yeah, and then he gets recruited To work for the, this secret society that works on an alternate earth Through portals, preserving Kaiju as like large animals. It's just cute, yeah, and the plot is simple and wonderful and is just the perfect Detox. After you know, I read this right after finishing Musashi, my gigantic samurai epic. Yeah, that took me about a month to get through. So you know, after a big historical fiction, this was the perfect palette, palette cleanser.
Speaker 2:He it's. It's really well done. It clearly pulls from lots of different Kaiju franchises inspirations that they have the Kaiju parasites. It's a big plot point the same thing that happens in clover field and they do deep dives into Kaiju physiology. That's cool, which you know you never really get. He makes an all-walking nuclear reactors, very similar to Godzilla. Yeah, but they do it from a science angle that is like and this is why this works. It's just nerd stuff, it's fun.
Speaker 1:All right, everyone, I cannot believe that we have finally made it to the conclusion of, I guess, our pop culture Section on Kaiju. I think one thing that I've really learned is that Kaiju films, though often lumped together into a broad Science fiction or creature feature genre you know, again, I sort of had that sense of what they were coming into this but they really do span from Lighthearted entertainment, very campy, as we've discussed, to political social critique and, like Alan really highlighted today, these very intense stories about humanity and survival and death. Right Films like Godzilla Shin, godzilla the host, are very obvious in their commentary. But I guess my my big takeaway is that Kaiju films sort of organically create a ripe landscape for this sort of political and Government commentary.
Speaker 1:Right beyond the giant creature, audiences are automatically expecting a military response, destruction beyond repair, political interference, and so it's really about how the filmmakers within each of these franchises and even within each of these individual films are Choosing to tell this story that we're engaging with over and over and over again. Right like giant creature Comes to city there's there's only so different. You know so many different ways you can tell that story, but I think what we've really found is that a lot of them are very similar, but there are some very special gems in there that have really Affected us and embedded themselves in our brains, you know, over the years, for different reasons to your point.
Speaker 2:We're rehashing Similar tropes again and again, but if you give just the slightest new take on things, it feels so fresh. So in the book Kaiju preservation society, they explore how Kaiju all have like their nuclear reactors. Right, but it's organic. So the plot of the book, like the bad guys are trying to harness the technology. Think about how renewable, like renewable energy, what if, instead of having to mine uranium, you could just Give birth to a nuclear power plant? You know Like how? How would that change the planet if everything which has grown, instead of harvested?
Speaker 1:Well, the Oppenheimer had that, or I guess God forbid right, depending on how you look at it.
Speaker 2:All this is to say, if you have these tropes that are just like so ingrained and so beloved, and when, for me, if there's just like a new twist and it's something that I haven't seen before, I'm like, oh fuck, yes, I'm you up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly. I want to thank all of you for being along on this journey with us. Of course, it's not totally over, because next episode we will round this series out with some short stories that are all about Kaiju. I also want to remind you guys that we do have our Godzilla themed merch in our merch store Kaiju themed merch. If you head to lunatics project calm, click on merch. We have Kaiju beach towels, sweat shirts, t-shirts, jackets, tote bags, tank tops anything that you could ever want we have beach towels.
Speaker 1:We have beach towels for a limited time, you know.
Speaker 2:One summer is over then also, it's not Godzilla themed, it's.
Speaker 1:Kaiju themed. We don't want to get sued.
Speaker 2:It might bear a resemblance to Godzilla, but it's legally distinct enough to not be Godzilla, that's right.
Speaker 1:All right, everybody. Thank you again so much, and we'll we'll talk to you soon. Bye.