Lunatics Radio Hour
The history of horror and the horror of history.
Lunatics Radio Hour
Episode 143 - Ghost Hunting 101 with The Ghoul Guide
Abby is thrilled to present this conversation with our friend The Ghoul Guide. I sit down with Courtney Eastman to discuss the basics of ghost hunting, her approach to paranormal investigation, some of the most haunted locations in the United States and across the globe.
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Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Lunatics Radio Hour podcast. I am beyond thrilled to be sitting here finally after many years of being internet friends with Courtney Eastman of the Ghoul Guide. Welcome to the podcast, courtney. Oh my goodness, thank you so much for having me. It is such a pleasure. Your Instagram account, honestly, is like I feel like my portal into the world of the paranormal, which I'm only an imposter and observer in, and your content is so engaging and you go to like all the places that I want to go to and I'm so thrilled to be talking to you finally.
Speaker 2:I know what it's been like, what like almost three years now, and this is like a face to face. I love it.
Speaker 1:It's wild. It's wild, but I also love Instagram for bringing new friends. So many of the great people we know are from Instagram, which is amazing.
Speaker 2:Honestly, that's like how I met half of my friend group that I have today was really just Instagram, like us DMing each other and then like jumping on, like investigations or like going to events together and I'll just kind of all happen, naturally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so for anybody who doesn't follow you, I believe I'm quoting that you sort of describe yourself as a paranormal travel blogger. Is that right, I call?
Speaker 2:it like a haunted travel blogger. Okay, I love going out there and sharing the haunted history within some of these places. I grew up in Western New York so we have a very rich haunted history. We just have rich history here in general. Yeah, there was a lot of tales and stuff that I love and, you know, just growing up I wanted to share the stories and I also wanted to share some of the locations that I've always just been like fascinated by, like Waverly Hills or, you know, like Rolling Hills, all those places. So it all just kind of like blended in together and I just thought haunted travel blogger was like the easiest way to like put it all together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a perfect. It's a perfect summary. So you spend a lot, especially in the warmer months. Majority of your weekends. It feels like traveling to all of these locations and investigating them right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think this year I logged like 13,000 miles. Oh my gosh, between March and the the end of November, wow.
Speaker 1:And being in Western New York is kind of like a great, I feel, like spot because it's very accessible for you to drive to many different states and kind of explore that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm pretty lucky because, like you said, I'm in Western New York, so it's only about maybe like an hour to go to Erie, pennsylvania and an hour and a half to go to Ohio. So this past week I was in Pennsylvania twice.
Speaker 2:Just wow for fun that's the dream yeah, I was just like I'm bored, what am I gonna do time to go south like and just keep driving. I'm very lucky that way, but it's funny because, like whatever I say, I'm from New York, everyone just assumes I'm from the city and like you're, you're from the city, so like you kind of get it, but I am probably about like eight hours away from you.
Speaker 1:I feel that a lot, because I feel like to what your point earlier a lot of the paranormal haunted. There's certainly stuff in New York don't get me wrong in New York city, but there's so much if you have the ability to have a car and drive out a few hours, which I don't have. We don't have a car. We live in the city and like, for example, I'm obsessed with Lilydale and I want to go to Lilydale so badly but it feels like right, it's like so close, but it feels like I'd have to like fly to Buffalo and rent a car. You know, it's like it's so hard to logistically figure out how to get there. So I am very jealous of where you're positioned and kind of the access that you have to things.
Speaker 2:I mean that's really funny that you mentioned Lillydale, because I've lived in western New York for all of 30, 31 years now and I've only just recently went to Lillydale.
Speaker 1:Oh, you went. Can you tell me everything? How was it so?
Speaker 2:we. So I actually was jumping on a filming weekend with my friends and haunted nights. We did an event on a Friday night and then the rest of the weekend it was just us filming and we didn't really know where we were going to, where we were going to go. So on the way to Dunkirk because we were going to the Dunkirk Lighthouse and we were trying to like start heading home we stopped at Lilydale because the guys rented a room at the one haunted house there or the one haunted hotel. It's a very, very peaceful place. We definitely didn't like get to do any of like the inspiration stump or like any of that type of type of stuff, but we walked around. It was very, very peaceful.
Speaker 2:If you ever get a chance to go, I highly suggest it. Like it's more active in the warmer months and like there's some psychics who live that like it's a psychic community, if you don't know what it is. So, um, there are some psychics who just accept walk-offs or you have to book. So it's kind of just like you can go for the day and like you never really know what you're going to get. So like that's really cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm so fascinated by it. My family has like a long history with spiritualism and so it's kind of like this like ultimate destination where, like we have, like me and my mom, like we have to go to Lilydale and like just you know, like book with a psych, but it feels overwhelming to do a whole trip. But someday, someday we will go for sure.
Speaker 1:I'm manifesting that for you. Thank you, thank you. Okay, so this is going to seem like a silly question to ask you, but I'm going to do it anyway, because we ask everybody on our podcast when we have guests if they've had a paranormal experience. I know that you have, you've talked to me about them before, but if you had sort of one paranormal experience that you were going to say to somebody like Alan say, who's like super skeptical, as kind of like you're like you know, party, party trick, paranormal story, which one would you, which one would you say?
Speaker 2:There's like four that come to mind right now, and I think I told you guys the one for one of your episodes, so I'm going to go with the second one that's jumping in my head right now and it's maybe the most recent. Over the summer it was the weekend of the filming weekend, when we went to Lilydale. We had an event at West Virginia State Penitentiary. It was like our last time there for the for like the year and we were all hanging out and it was towards the end of the night at one point. We were all hanging out and it was towards the end of the night At one point. We were all hanging out and they all looked at me and they're like hey, we have handcuffs, let's handcuff you for a solo for 10 minutes.
Speaker 2:And I was so against it, I wanted no part of it because they wanted to put me in like Red Snyder's cell. Do they literally mean handcuffing you? Yep, I bitched and moaned the entire time and I was like I don't want to do this, but yet I was still walking to like go do it, we get in the cell and I sit on the bed and I pull my feet up because I'm terrified of something pulling like pulling my feet underneath. My friends put the handcuffs on me so I was handcuffed to the bed. So everyone left. I was just me. They're all like we're just gonna hang out in the courtyard. We're right there, just yell, yell if you need us. And little did I know. My friend dylan was in the cell next to me getting ready to scare me because everyone loves to scare me they.
Speaker 2:They learned that they could scare me at waverly, so like it was game over. After that I thought everyone left and I have a video of this. I haven't posted it yet but it's coming soon. I feel like maybe, like this is the podcast, I have to post it, for I I had my phone set up like on the little sink and I was like doing like this little monologue, like hey, so my friends left me like handcuffed in resnit herself and there was this huge pound on the door and I was like you could see me jump.
Speaker 2:And then my friend d Dylan jumps out and he was like it was me and I was like you ever like get out of here. And then, um, as I was yelling at him at one point, I was like are you gonna let me do this or what? And then you just hear boom and he goes that wasn't me. And I go. So that was Steve. And he goes. I'm the only one in here and you're locked in here. So, so like that that moment I have it all on camera.
Speaker 2:I have Dylan standing in the door saying it wasn't him and then you have probably a minute of me trying to process it all. It was just like oh so it was Steve and he goes. No, everyone's outside. I'm just like well, what do you mean? And like the reality of like me being handcuffed, sitting in this thing like in the cell was like really setting it. And then he bolted so I was like literally alone. Um, thank god, nothing really happened after that. It was like a quiet EP session, but that bang and because like I felt the vibration on my back, yeah, like that had to be someone who's like nope, there's everyone's outside except for me.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's wild, that's so scary. Are you very jumpy? Yes, yeah, me too, me too.
Speaker 2:I like. So my day job it kind of wore out my nerves because I was working in a behavior room for kids with special needs so I was always kind of like in a fight or flight mode and now after getting out of the classroom, my nerves are coming down from it. But then they realize that they can scare me and I'm so in my head that like I don't, I don't really like see it coming, so I'm always so jumpy so they can just get me whatever they want.
Speaker 1:I am the same I and people always give me flack. They're like don't you love horror? I'm like, yeah, but I'm still very scared all the time. So yeah, it's, it is my reality.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like a ghost hunter who's like kind of afraid of the dark but like won't admit it. I'm just like afraid of the unknown. Like if it's darkness inside my house I like it, but if it's like unfamiliar darkness I'm like I don't want any part of that.
Speaker 1:That's fair, Okay. So when you were just talking, you sort of inspired me to wonder you go on a lot of investigations. How often do you feel like you encounter activity? Is it every time? Is it less frequent than that?
Speaker 2:So reality of it is is that you are not going to get paranormal activity everywhere you go every single night. There are times where we walk away with a lot of stories. There are times where we don't at all, and that's completely okay, because to me that's the beauty of the paranormal, because it literally is the unknown. So if you have an experience one night and you go back and nothing happens, then that kind of like builds credibility for like the first thing to happen. Right, I'd say like it's kind of like an even five, like on a scale of 10 from like one to 10.
Speaker 2:It's kind of neutral because I'm also a firm believer that it's all in the energy you bring into it too. So interesting, like with the different, like groups of people that come in, can that add to the activity, can that take away from it? So I feel like there's a lot of different factors, but I would say like an even five.
Speaker 1:Okay, I love that. That feels like a really honest answer.
Speaker 2:Say that like the paranormal shows that you see out there, those are all produced so like of course I personally like Kindred Spirits as a paranormal show to watch because you can kind of see it break off in the like you know that they're there for like a week and like you can see the different day-to-day investigations, but like when it's just like an episode of ghost adventures or ghost hunters, they're really there for like two nights and if they don't get something, like they kind of right I don't want to say fake it, but like they kind of have to like blow up the things that like aren't really there alan works in film and tv full-time and he has worked on a ghost hunting show before.
Speaker 1:He's not said I actually don't even know which one it was, but probably cause he doesn't remember, but he that's why he's so skeptical of them, because he's like I've. I've been on them and I I see how it's produced, and so he's like I. I wouldn't put all of your he's like. I'm sure sometimes it's real, but it's. It's. Sometimes you have to. They're on the hook to make good TV and that's their job, right, so it's. You know. I understand the, the duality of it.
Speaker 2:And I kind of feel like that's what's happening in like the YouTube world now, because YouTube is like YouTube paranormal is kind of a big thing with, like the Sam and Colby crowd. So like you have people who are like oh my God, this place is insanely haunted, blah, blah, blah. But oh my god, this place is insanely haunted, blah, blah, blah. But it's like, yeah, but they're only here for a set amount of time and they know that they have to make an episode and there's a few little tips and tricks that you can do. The REM pod will go off if someone hits a walkie. If you get a text message, your K2s will go off. So I'm not saying that they're faking it, but I'm also saying that there is a lot of good entertainers out there and they know what they're doing and there's a part of me that respects them for knowing what they're doing, but also, at the same time, it's like stop misleading everyone.
Speaker 1:Right, right, it's a very delicate line to balance. Yeah, how do you think about and define the paranormal?
Speaker 2:Like I know that's a loaded question, but I liked what you were saying earlier about the energy of the people who are there influences it, Like how do you think about what you believe to be?
Speaker 1:the paranormal.
Speaker 2:Oh, this is such a fun question, so my two theories kind of like lead into one.
Speaker 2:I guess you can say, like I said, I'm a firm believer about, you know, the energy and the energy imprints that we leave behind, because energy just doesn't go away, and if you think about the theories in the past, like the stone tape theory, how energy embeds itself in like limestone or like quartz and stuff and then replays itself. But I also love playing with this idea that what if we're the ghosts? And what if we are making these hauntings? Mainly because of time slips and also our energy too? So you have you kind of have to think about it in a residual type of thing.
Speaker 2:Say, you and I were going to a place like waverly hills. What if we rounded the corner and all of a sudden we were transported back into the 1930s or you know the height of tuberculosis, and in that moment we were in this like time slip where we saw a glimpse of like a nurse, and then she saw us too and was like who are they? So she goes back to her friends and tells a story and we end up becoming the ghost story that we hear about so many years ago. It's this huge rabbit hole that you, that like you, can go down whenever there's like a dull moment in like an investigation. This is what we throw out to like get everyone's mind going. So there's that in like terms of like being paranormal, but also in the energy of being residual where you know. We just throw our energy out there, like when you're really mad or you know you're really sad.
Speaker 2:It leaves an imprint and then over time things are just right in the universe to get that to play over and over again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's actually very similar to my like uneducated theories on the paranormal, because I also believe, like how do you destroy the energy of somebody? Right? Like it feels like you know, there's so much more to us than our bodies, so when our body dies, it doesn't mean every bit of us dies. And I also feel like the same way, like the way energy can imprint on a space, especially around, like if a very traumatic thing happens.
Speaker 1:I think it was actually not to plug a big uh franchise, but there was an episode of ghost hunters that sort of opened my eyes to this when I was a little kid, watching it around like some woman's ghost, like a victorian era ghost it was like princess penelope it wasn't that, but something like that and she would always, they would always catch her, like all the people would report hearing her say the same thing. And so it's this idea of like okay, well, maybe it's. It is even like a haunting of somebody that's like aware that they're a haunting, or it's just like a piece of energy that was left and caught right in this bed or this room or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love thinking about things that way too well, there's that, and then, if you want to spin off of that, you can also go into thought forms and egregores and how we create hauntings that way, because um, also not to like want to throw out more paranormal shows, but kindred spirits, it does a wonderful job of you know, putting this to the like. I think it's called like the philip theory or something like that to the test, where they create a ghost and you know they're like it's this name. He likes playing with the k2 meter, like you know. He likes playing with the ball, like type of thing. Like when they went back to investigate after they were just talking about it and talking about it, they started getting hits based on like what they were saying. Right, who truly knows what the paranormal is?
Speaker 1:if I'm being honest, yeah, we all have this idea of what it could be, but we are so far from it and I don't think we ever will truly know what is on the other side until our tragic, fateful day yeah, everyone who listens to this podcast is going to roll their eyes when I say this, but it's like, because I say it all the but it's like from the film the Mothman prophecies which might actually be a John Kill quote, I don't know, but they say in the film like it's like humans understanding the paranormal is like trying to explain physics to a cockroach. It's like we just don't have the capacity to understand what it is, the same way, like a cockroach or a bug doesn't have the capacity to understand physics. Like it's just like beyond and also similar to the mothman. It's like the like what you're just talking about, like thought forms and like tulpas. Like you have this whole community who starts to believe in this thing. Is that what's feeding into it and making it happen? Like it's so fascinating that's honest.
Speaker 2:It's probably like what the. The fact that it's so unknown is probably like, my favorite thing about the paranormal. Like I love history, I love the dark lore and the stories that are attached. Some of them are very, very heartbreaking and tragic, but they also deserve to be told. But then there is this side to the paranormal where you can let your mind wander and it just keeps going and going and going and it's like an exercise in accepting the fact that we don't know, and that's like part of the fun.
Speaker 2:like not, you cannot figure it out, so let's just like go with it and see what happens yeah, and I know like there's I think it was maybe like the end of like last year there was this huge debate on twitter where I was like we want answers, you know, we want the truth, and it's like, well, what? What if, like, you can't get the truth, no one knows what we're doing. Like I don't know what I'm doing. I've been doing this for like 10 years probably.
Speaker 1:I have no idea what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's actually a perfect segue, because I'm curious how you got into paranormal investigation so, um, the paranormal and know, like the weird side of life was always a constant to me. I grew up around cemeteries. I came from a very my, my grandma, was very Catholic, so you know, I grew up going to Catholic school, so that kind of like added into like my curiosity. But it wasn't until like I was, I want to say, like seven years old, when I randomly woke up in the middle of the night and looked out my window and on the bottom right corner of it I saw a face and I knew it was impossible that someone could be outside looking at my window, because I was second story, there was no way to get to it, like there was no balcony or anything like that. So I just remember being so freaked out by it I hid behind like my dresser or something, and what was like five minutes felt like forever, and then, like I jumped into bed, never told a single soul about it, and then about like a year, maybe a year or two later, the paranormal show started coming out. So I got really, really involved in Ghost, ghost Hunters. I loved it to no end and I just remember being like I want to do this. I want to do this in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 2:I didn't have my first investigation until I want to say, like maybe I was like a sophomore in high school and it was actually at the Buffalo Central Terminal with Steve Tango from Ghost Hunters and then John Zaffis. I was like on cloud nine. I remember John Zaffis was like oh my God, that's such a great question when I asked, like the spirit box, like what the ghost's birthday was, and I was like this is it. This is my legacy. But then, like after that it was kind of just trying to like drag friends to do this, like a lot of my childhood friends like did not want any part of the paranormal. I was always that bad influence at the sleepovers doing like Bloody.
Speaker 2:Mary and stuff. I was like come on guys, like what's the worst that can happen. But but like then I found a few like other friends and you know we did it when we could. But then, like after high school, I kind of focused on you know like just following a bunch of shows and you know like just being like a young 20 year old, not even caring about this side. And it wasn't until the pandemic hit that I kind of was forced to like go inward and you know I escaped to all of the haunted locations we had around here just to like go take a drive and, yeah, go into the cemeteries and stuff. So that would lead to like the ghoul guide and stuff. So it's I kind of like got away from it and then like it came back to me in like a beautiful way. I love that that's.
Speaker 1:That's like such a great story and I totally understand, like you know, me and Chris from Buried Secrets, like we spent so much time walking in cemeteries once vaccines and things are available for COVID, because it's like there's nowhere else to go, you know, especially in New York, like we were like that's a green space we can go to and nobody is there, you know.
Speaker 2:I just remember looking outside, like outside my window, and just be like I just want to go, I just want to do something. I would just get in the car and drive and you know like I would just end up taking back roads and it would like lead me to rolling hills and I'd be like, oh, I love this place. It's like, it's like one of like my first places I investigated and then, like I found myself at Gudelberg and all these other cemeteries around me and like that summer, I had this like nagging idea where it's like all right, you like writing, you like going, traveling, and you know all the ghost stories around Like why don't you go find people that want to do this? And then Instagram happened and the rest is history.
Speaker 1:It's so great. It's so great. I'm such a big fan. I'm so glad that you, that you found it and you're also, I should say you're such a good writer. You've lent us a few stories over the years and your work is, in some of the articles you've written in the Feminine Macabre, so well written and it makes it very easy, like Alan. Every time we read your stories, alan is like I get this, I can understand this, and it's like so good, it's so great.
Speaker 2:I think that's just like the creative eye I have in me. Like I never really spoke about it before, but like now that my my work is out there with like all my reels, and like the photography with instagram and like the writing stuff, I'm just like I never realized how like detailed and like detail oriented and like how I feel like I write more for emotion and like to just like have emotion. Kind of like I don't know, when I write, I want you to picture being there, like I want you in my shoes, kind of feeling what I was feeling in that moment.
Speaker 1:Well, well, you do a great job. It definitely works. It definitely works. Yeah, okay, this is also probably an annoying question, but bear with me For people listening who who maybe have not watched Ghost Hunters or Ghost Adventures and are less familiar, what are some of like the tools and the things that you use on paranormal investigations and like what would you suggest is like a great, like 101? You know, like if I wanted to go for the first time to like investigate, show up at one of the things you're doing and not look like a total loser? Like what are the things that, like basic, a basic paranormal investigator should have and know how to work?
Speaker 2:well, honestly, I will say you don't really need equipment. Your biggest tool is your body. I am the type of person who likes to just kind of sit and listen. Sometimes, when you sit and listen and you don't even bother investigating and you kind of just like put in the back of your mind, you're just there hanging out with friends. That's when things pop off In my head.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like you're letting the building warm up to you being in it too, instead of just going in there and being like rapid firing questions, trying to explain equipment to an airspace that might have a ghost in it or not. So I just feel like that. So your body is your biggest, most like the best tool you can have. And then, secondly, I would say your phone. You have a camera, you have a camera, you have a video camera on there. You also have voice memos for voice, for digital recordings. You would be surprised the amount of times that I still whip out my phone and you know, record off of it. My friend Mark ended up getting a really, really cool EVP off of it that he had no idea until. Like playback.
Speaker 2:You kind of have to like think outside the box and like, trust me, I always say that like I am a ghost hunter who hates equipment, but I just kind of don't like how pricey they are. And just to me, how are we to know that like this equipment actually really works, like in terms of like the EMF fields and all that? So I kind of like to go very basic. Also, cat balls. So, like I said, thinking outside the box, a lot of people love these motion sensor cat balls that you can find on Amazon. I think I got like a pack of like 11 for like $5. You put them on, you throw them on the floor and sometimes they go off. They go off by themselves. Could be a ghost, could not be, who knows. And then the only real piece of equipment I would recommend is maybe a digital recorder Plain and simple.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Ok, so that makes it feel very accessible and doable for people.
Speaker 2:Like you have one on your phone, but like a brighter flashlight might be.
Speaker 1:Especially if you're recording and stuff on your phone, it's good to have a separate flashlight. Yeah, okay, that's a great, that's a great thought.
Speaker 2:Wow, okay, that, that makes it feel very possible a whole bunch of like apps and stuff that you can get on your phone. I know some like. I think some you might have to pay. Some are free. Take them with a grain of salt.
Speaker 2:You don't really know how it all, but I'm also not here to like rain on anyone's parade. If you want to use equipment and you want to use apps, go for it. I hope you get something. If you don't want to use that stuff or think it's overly priced, like I kind of do, that's cool too and you can think outside the box. This girl, Alex, who was actually on Living for the Dead on Hulu fantastic show, she actually builds her own stuff. So a lot of people in the community are building their own equipment. I know this other girl, Lauren. She's actually doing workshops to like show you how to build your own like REM pod or like proximity sensor, so like there's other outlets and stuff that you can like look at instead of like the traditional, like ghost equipment.
Speaker 2:That's once again like thinking outside the box type of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it actually just reminded me because a few years ago, chris from the Buried Secrets podcast introduced me to, through Hellier, to the Estes method, which I didn't know. I was talking to Alan about it and I was like we got to do this For our 100th episode. We were going to this haunted hotel, we got to do something to investigate it. What are we going to do? And so I was trying to explain to him, like what a spirit box is and he's and he works in sound, and he was like we have a radio. Like we don't need to buy a spirit box, like we could do this with a radio. Like you could also download an app on your phone that scans radio channels. Like you don't need to like have this specific thing that does it. There's way, there's free options left and right to do it.
Speaker 2:And I was like, oh great, you solved the problem for me, and if you even don't like, if you don't even want to do the ss method, you can even I think there's a youtube video out that shows you and even tells you what to buy, where you can make your own spirit portal and it can cut out the scanning.
Speaker 1:The annoying scanning sounds, yeah, and it can just be like a geophone where the voices pop up here and there, so like that's yeah you just sit there and listen to it and like the voices come through yeah, the story is like don't let, don't let price be like a blocker not having the fancy things, because if you just go to youtube you can probably find a tutorial on how to do it yeah, or honestly even look at like marketplace and stuff.
Speaker 2:Don't you dare go to eBay and like try to like look up a DR there's. There's this digital recorder. It's called the DR-60. It's from the 1990s and it's discontinued. People think it's a piece of crap. It's very controversial they want. I think the lowest asking price I saw was like 1500 do not, do not, oh my god, wow, there's other reporters out there and, like all my friends, have them. Trust me, I'm in like the. I wish I had one club, just like everyone else.
Speaker 2:But yeah it's, it's not really worth it. I have this feeling that I'm gonna like manifest it and like find it in a goodwill for like three dollars, like yeah, I'm that delusional no, I think that's.
Speaker 1:That's great. That's like a firm boundary too, of like you know.
Speaker 2:This is the way I'll find it, yeah like I said, you have it on your phone. You would be surprised the amount of things you can catch on your phone.
Speaker 1:I'm curious, do you believe, like so growing up, right when our parents both it sounds like we're like stop doing Ouija boards. You know it's like. Do you like? Do you have a thought that, like my mom was like you know, you're letting demons in the house as would you investigate your house? Or do you feel like that's like playing with fire in a place you want to keep safe?
Speaker 2:I see, the thing is is that I think I think it's already haunted because I live by this, like I live by cemeteries and stuff. I don't know if it's anything that from me or like from the cemeteries or stuff. So I, I think I don't, I don't know, I don't, I don't think I'd ever really investigate my house.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's more of like the fact that you know, like I want it to be like my safe space, because I really don't, I really don't mind, I, I don't think it's more of like the fact that you know like I want it to be like my safe space, cause I really don't, I really don't mind, I just don't, I just don't think I want to like it's just one of those things where it's like, yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 1:This is like my big question that I'm like, so excited to talk to you about. You go to many places. We have established that First question of many about these places that you explore what is your favorite, what is like of the places you've been to? This is my ultimate place to investigate and it just feels the best to me.
Speaker 2:The one that's coming instantly to my mind is Waverly Hills, and I think that's mainly because that's been my number one spot ever since I was like eight years old, having the chance to investigate it probably like, I think, like six or seven times now within like the last couple years. It has kind of felt like home. It has a very, very peaceful feeling to it and a lot of people don't really think that it would, mainly because of the history that it has, but I don't know.
Speaker 2:Just I I don't know if it's because of, like, all the memories we made there intertwined with, like, the energy that's there too, but it's just I don't know. I haven't had a bad time at Waverly, like even when, like the activity was very low and like nothing was really going on. I was just happy to be there like the first, the first time we ever investigated it. I remember, like pulling up in my car and just being like, if the ghosts don't say hi tonight, I'm good, I'm okay that.
Speaker 2:I drove eight hours to just be here because I just, I just want to be in the space.
Speaker 1:I think I think that's the top one. Waverly is like my bucket list. I've never been. We actually have an episode from the pandemic on or maybe a little after the pandemic, but on the history of Waverly. And then we had a friend who lives closer geographically. He actually went and he's a skeptic and he was like an experience. I need to talk to you about it. So he came on the podcast and like told us, but like his partner was really into it, so she sort of like dragged him there and then he ended up, of course, having like an experience yeah, like the first time we were ever there, my friend, steve, who I've become really, really close friends with he just did a call out on Instagram was like, hey, I booked this date.
Speaker 2:There's like nine other spots open if you want it and I think, like within like him posting that story on Instagram within 30 seconds, I was like what's your Venmo? I wanted, and that first night we we ended up having one of the most like the one of the experiences that I I feel like I've been talking about it forever and I always mention it, but it was when the door slammed on us and the body shoot when we were completely alone. So it was me and three other girls and we ran away from the other group. They all had no idea where we went and I think they were. Uh, they were like up two floors on the other side of the hospital. I thought they had their walkie on. They didn't.
Speaker 2:We were down in the body chute and if you don't, if you don't know what it is, it's this long tunnel that was first used for construction, but then, as the death rates for TB got really bad, they started pushing the bodies out of there, so the patients didn't actually know how many people were dying. So we got down there and you know, we were just taking pictures and kind of just being funny and you know, just hanging out, and I was up right like on the first stair and I couldn't shake the feeling that I couldn't stop looking over my shoulder towards the only exit and entrance. I was like something's going to pop out there, like I don't know what it is, and we're going to have to run down and we're going to be stuck and we're all just kind of hanging out. Someone said that they want to do a digital recorder session. So I put mine down. Someone put like someone was like I think someone heard the echo and they're like oh yeah, nevermind. So I was like I don't care, I'm going to leave mine down there.
Speaker 2:And then after that one of the girls said that they heard a whisper come from down the far end of the tunnel. So I finally broke my attention away from the door and as my recorder flipped over to a minute, it was just pure silence and all you just hear is boom and all of us just start screaming bloody murder. One of them was like what was that? I think I was like I don't know, and like me and this other one just took off running and we like went to the sound and after we figured it out that it was the emergency exit door and the motion light was on outside, there was like no one around, oh my god.
Speaker 2:Um, we tried radioing the people, like the other group from like hey, like where are you guys? Like nothing came through, and so I gave it a minute. We all like kind of collected ourselves and we started walking and at one point I was just trying to be funny because like we were still radioing them and we weren't hearing anything and I was like you can't ignore me, like just radio me. And I don't know if the ghost heard that as like a challenge, because after that door slam and after that moment it kicked off like this last hour of just pure chaos with the civilians oh my god we were hearing giggling and chairs moving, like it sounded like metal on metal and at one point I thought it was like the body tray coming out and I was like we have to go.
Speaker 2:We have to go down there, um, but it wasn't, but it sounded like the chair outside of the door. At the very end of the night, we did what was called the Waverly challenge, where you're supposed to walk floor by floor by yourself, um, without a flashlight nope.
Speaker 2:I, I wanted no part of it. Like part of me was like, yeah, let's totally do it. I'm just like I'm dying. Um, so three, three people. They walked out of like the green room we were in and they started the challenge, and me and these two other girls we were going to do it, but like we were going to do it as like just the three of us together and we didn't know where the other group went. So we got our stuff and we were on the first floor and I radioed them like hey, we're about to start. Little did I know that. And we were on the first floor and I radioed them like hey, we're about to start. Little did I know that they were up on the fifth floor waiting for us and they heard me, like they heard my voice, and saw flashlights in the stairway, thought we were coming up. We never came up and then they, like they heard the radio come in, saying was like hey, it's me, we're going to start on the first. That's so freaky.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, wow that's wild.
Speaker 2:Most recently we were there last march. We we were getting ready to like wrap up the second night of events that we had there and we were saying goodbye to like our last guest, and this was like probably like 4, 4, 30 in the morning. So we were all exhausted and we had all our stuff in our hands and we go to start walking down the hallway and you just hear this blood curdling scream. It was a female. I like just my face dropped and I go, oh no, like that's our tour guide, because we had like she wasn't old, but she was like older. I thought she got hurt. I was like you guys have to go check on her. Like we can't leave.
Speaker 2:So we were all about to go walk down the hallway into the actual like patient rooms where we heard the scream and right as we get to the doors, the tour guide comes out with paper towels in her hands and she's like what's going on? You guys look like you saw a ghost and we're like are you good? We did yeah, you saw a ghost. And we're like are you good? We did yeah, and we're just like are you good? She's like yeah, I'm fine. What's going on? We're like you didn't. You didn't hear that scream. She's like no, but you guys can go check it out if you want. Oh my god, wow, that's wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, so she ended up taking the group that we were like trying to like get out, like the tail end of our friends. She ended up taking them down to the hill so they could get out of the gate, and we took that time to walk the entire um hospital to make sure we didn't leave anyone behind. And no one was there. So I don't know where that scream came from. No, like from what I know, no one was outside. So waverly waverly knows how to like leave you with a story or two yeah, oh my gosh, okay, that's got to be like.
Speaker 1:My 2024 goal is to go. I really want to go. It's enough is enough. Now is the time you have to. I have to. I have to. Okay now next question on locations that's your favorite that you've been to, what's like your bucket list location that you haven't been to yet?
Speaker 2:oh, so there's actually two. So in the top, in the top three, there's only one place I haven't been able to cross off yet, and that's Pennhurst State School in.
Speaker 2:Pennsylvania. That one has been on my list for a number of years and I kind of don't even want to go there to investigate, I kind of just want to go there to be there. It's one of those places where I know it's haunted. It doesn't need to prove itself to me, it is just. It's just been a place that's so embedded into my life because, like I said before, I was a teacher or a teacher aid for kids with special needs. I have people with special needs in my family. So like that whole history and even just I don't want this to come up, like me I don't really mean or anything but like the history of what we did to people in asylums and institutions fascinates me because I truly don't understand how one person can do that to another person.
Speaker 2:And I don't think I will ever be able to understand that. So just being there and being in that space and kind of like paying my respects to those people is something that I want to do, like I would love to investigate it Don't get me wrong, and I probably will, but my main goal of going there is to pay my respects and just to be in the space and ask someone who was in the field. I feel like I can connect more. So there's that, but I would say the number fourth spot is the Winchester Mystery House.
Speaker 1:Oh, I've been there.
Speaker 2:Ah, that one has been on my list and my friends have gone a couple times this year and I just, I'm so jealous.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, very cool. I feel like I'm in the community now because I've been there. It's very cool. I would love to talk to you about it after you go, because I actually have fairly strong opinions on it, but I wouldn't want to say anything to like spoil any of it. So once you go we'll chat again.
Speaker 2:Hopefully this summer, if everything lines up, hopefully a trip out there this summer will work, amazing.
Speaker 1:Okay, if it does, I'll FaceTime you and just sob Please, please, please. I would love to chat about it. That would be amazing. Okay, those are great. And then, do you have any like locations outside of the US? Are you mostly kind of like interested in exploring the US?
Speaker 2:Oh no, I would actually love to go overseas. Actually, in 2020, I think it was 21, I was supposed to go to Romania.
Speaker 1:That's my dream.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want to say 2019,. I did a trip over overseas and I was in London for the ball drop, so I spent New Year's Eve there and I was like holy cow, I really want to do this again. So I ended up booking a trip a couple months later to go back to Ireland and like go down like the the south of it, because that's where I was before I went to London and then COVID hit so I couldn't go and then, I used that money to go to Rome or to book a trip to Romania and they suckered me in with Dracula's castle and I was just like honest, like really, really, we're going to do this, say no more.
Speaker 2:So I paid and then everything went down and I, I couldn't go but that that is one of, like, the top ones for the um outside the US, mainly because I remember being like I't know probably 10 watching Scariest Places on Earth, and the family that they sent to Romania was actually from Buffalo. So I just have this like vivid memory of everyone watching at my house and like we were down in the basement and I'm just like that's going to be me. I'm going to go there, we're going to do it.
Speaker 1:That's great, those are such, those are perfect. Yes, I have the same, I'm always sending out. Great, those are such, those are perfect. Yes, I have the same, I'm always sending out. I'm like, look, we could get this all inclusive, because I also not going to drive around Romania, so I need to be on a tour because, you know, I don't have the skill set to even drive around the US. I'm not going to be like, sure, let me drive in a foreign country. So I'm always like looking for like group tours through like Dracula's Castle.
Speaker 2:I think I did like it was. It was like some like ultimate break one. I kept hearing about it on the radio when I was working. This one like this one, odd job, no-transcript.
Speaker 1:And then I looked it up and I was like all right, hold on now.
Speaker 2:I mean I would hope that you know like the universe lines up where I can do that, or just go back to Ireland again. Ireland was really fun. Spike Island there, and Lep Mansion, lep Castle, one of them. Just the history and the folklore there is just phenomenal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so cool and that's what draws me to it as well. Even if you don't have a paranormal experience or something doesn't have a paranormal history like it's so fascinating it's actual history and dark and so many things that it's like endlessly fascinating.
Speaker 2:I think I heard it like right after I listened to like a Bobby Mackey story and I was like, honestly, this goes like this is so true when it goes to the story of Pearl, because the story of like what actually happened to her was so much stranger than what the legend is.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, have you ever had an experience, you know, whether during an investigation or otherwise, that stands out as bizarre, like obviously everything in the paranormal is like unexplained and question mark, question mark, but something that was just like bizarrely different from other experiences that you've had?
Speaker 2:this is. This is a good one, because now I'm trying to like think back into like all the experience I've had and I'm like, is that one, that one, bizarre enough? The the two that are coming to my mind right now, I will say the one was from Waverly and it happened last year, mainly because I never I've always heard about like people seeing, like seeing people like actually standing there. I I'm a firm believer, like I want the experience of seeing a person in the flesh standing there and then just vanishing, like I want that full body apparition, like that. And Waverly kind of gave me like a half body apparition. So what was really bizarre to me in that moment was me and my friend Dylan. We were doing the events this year, so we had a free roam type of event and you know we were just doing rounds making sure everyone was doing okay. So we were walking around without a flashlight and we were walking up and down the hallway and I was look, I was on the terminal side, so I wasn't on the sun porch side. I always, I always have this fear that I'm gonna look into a room and I'm gonna see someone standing there and part of me wants that experiment experience. But part of me doesn't, because what am I gonna do if someone is actually standing there? I'm probably just gonna scream and freak out. I remember walking down the hallway we were probably like almost by like the first bend and I looked over and it looked like there was someone standing there from the waist down with the white gown and like the legs, and within a split second of me, just like blinking my eyes and being like wait, what the hell was that? It was gone. And I looked at Dylan and I was like, did you like, did you see someone standing there? He's like no, and I was like, oh crap, like it's one of those moments where it's so bizarre, where it's like no one's gonna freaking believe this. I just like I remember the pattern on the hospital gown. I remember what it looked like. Now that I'm saying the one that kind of comes to my mind right now, or the second one that's really really bizarre. It's one that I like, really don't. I've just started talking about because, like I don't, I don't know what happened.
Speaker 2:We were doing the Estes method. We were doing it in at the Mid-Orange Correctional Facility in Warwick, new York, so that's about like 60 miles away from New York City. It was a boys reform school and then it turned into a medium security prison and then it got shut down and now it is kind of like a soccer school or they're trying to like make it into dorms again type of thing. It's one of my like top 10 favorite places and we were in one of the dorms. It was B1. It was probably the first time we were in there, so this was last year.
Speaker 2:We had two people going under at the same time. I was under um with the listening to the spirit box and having the blindfold on. I was under in the hallway and I think it was cassie, this girl. Cassie, she was in like what it now? It's like a big room, but it held beds along the wall, like it was just kind of like a bigger room for the inmates and she was getting some stuff and since it's in the Catskills Mountains, you really don't have radio interference, so it's perfect.
Speaker 2:So I was getting nothing but pure static and we we probably did this at like three in the morning, so I was starting to fall asleep and in that I was just sitting there. I was like it's fine, you know what? I'm just slowly going to fall asleep. So I started dozing off and I was like catching myself and the one instance I must have been like in like a trance or something. I don't even want to say that because I don't even know what it was.
Speaker 2:So I was sitting up like up against the wall and at one moment it was kind of like a flash of an image. But what I was seeing was the staircase, directly by the window or like by the door where we came in, and I saw someone standing there. Her hand was on the railing, like I saw her gripping the railing, so I saw from basically her chest down. She was in like a white shirt. It looks like a black skirt, like tucked in, kind of like an old fancy teacher.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember sitting there and I snapped out of it and I couldn't even like put into words, I couldn't hear what was happening around me because I was, I had the noise canceling headphones on and at one point I was like hey guys, I don't know what this is, but I had a vision, but something is telling me to pay attention to the staircase, and little did I know that a minute before I said that the people who were in the hallway were looking at the door in the same area that I saw in, like my vision, or whatever you want to call it. They were seeing someone standing there and they were blocking out the little window and then it would just sink into the floor. Whoa, I don't know who I saw.
Speaker 2:I think it was the dorm mother, because back in the day in the reform school days, these troubled youth, they would live in these dorms and each dorm had like a dorm mother and a dorm father that would look over them. So I think she was poking around that night and didn't really know what we were doing. And I kind of don't blame her for poking around, because this was like this was our first time in like the set of dorms and I don't think anyone like really really goes into them. So yeah, that's probably one of the most bizarre things I've had happen.
Speaker 1:That's so crazy. I mean the interesting thing too. What I was first hearing when you were talking about it is like those two stories you just shared were both bottom half almost, or like not head, and I was like huh, I've never thought about seeing people usually like a face like not just like someone's legs, like that's so interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and now that I'm thinking about it too, the first time when I went to waverly we were, we all went into I think it was like the fourth floor hallway, because that's where they say they see like shadows and stuff, but we were all scattered, so like I think, I like told everyone to kind of like go in like a zigzag so we can like space out not seem like so intimidating. I was looking behind this this, my friend Mark, and what looked? It looked like someone with a walker that's the only way I can describe it. Like someone, like having like a walker, and they were like walking with it. I could and once again I could see the bottom, I could see their legs.
Speaker 2:Maybe, it's just something with me, just, I just can only see the bottom half. That's fine, I don't need to see anymore.
Speaker 1:I love it, though, and it's so interesting too. I think like the vision piece, because it also sounds like you have not to define your experience, but you have like this almost like spiritual, meditative way of approaching all of this too, and you're aware of, like energy, and so I like the idea of the vision and how that could be, like a way that people are communicating with you right or whatever it is is is communicating with you because you're open-minded to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like in that moment, I was like I think I made that up, like, and I I know for a fact, like I saw what I saw, like it is so embedded in my mind, and like there's still a moment where, like I completely made that up but then, like I re-watched Hellier, where they started doing the thing and the whole tin can thing, I was like, yeah, all right, maybe I didn't make this up then. Like, all right, like this is a thing. So I mean I don't know, but I was talking with someone and they were like, yeah, I think I think you've kind of found yourself like in a trance type of thing where I mean it makes sense, because I was listening to nothing but pure, pure white noise and, right, I mean I was already exhausted at that point. So I think, like the everything lined up perfectly for me to see that. And now in this year I'm like stuck trying to like chase that, because I just want that whole thing again. I just maybe just a little bit longer this time.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, no, totally I love it. It feels like addicting in a way, like you know, once you like sort of accept that okay, there's stuff happening, like now I'm I'm eager to like see what where else it could go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like once, once I have my little freak out about it and get over with it like there's something there that's cool yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay, my, my last question for you actually I have two more, but my last question on the paranormal, I imagine, because I feel like I sometimes post videos about hauntings and history and I get a lot of pushback. Do you get a lot of pushback from people who are skeptics and, if so, how do you approach that? Or do you sort of say like that's your world, this is my world and that's fine?
Speaker 2:So I feel like it's more of like the second of what you said. There are moments where I the pushback I seem to get comes from like whenever I post evidence, and that is so far and few between really Like now that I think about it, I really don't post that much evidence.
Speaker 2:I post EVPs. I really don't post like if anything. I kind of like go, try to go live and investigate when we're together or like when, when we have the moment, but whatever pushback I get is kind of someone just being like I don't think it said that Like ghosts aren't real.
Speaker 2:I'm just like all right, Like come on. In this day and age if you, if you want to believe that ghosts aren't real, so be it. I'm not going to be here, I'm not going to be the one to change your mind. Listen, the world is coming to an end soon. Let's just enjoy what we have.
Speaker 1:Right, that's what I say. Why don't we enjoy it a little, right?
Speaker 2:Let people just like what they like. I like ghosts. I like thinking I'm talking to the air, thinking that it's talking back to me. I like having the weird things happen, like it's just, it is what it is, and if that's not your cup of tea, then so be it. Yeah, I love that. Just let me tell my little ghost stories, in peace.
Speaker 1:I love that you have a great. You have a thick skin. I get very fired up but I I like crave to, not. You know, I would love to be like you know, that's fine. We believe different things and it's okay.
Speaker 2:There are times where things get to me like we're human. It happens. You also have to realize that in this day, and like social media, there are a lot of people just hiding behind the keyboards just wanting to like rain on everyone's parade, and it's nothing is worth it in this day and age. Yeah, that's true, you're a mute button away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's very true, that's very true. Ok, my last question for you, which again we ask everybody on the podcast say what are your top three favorite horror movies, or do you even like horror?
Speaker 2:Oh my god, yes, so I do, but I kind of I'm not a movie person and this is like what do you mean by that? I love watching trailers and being like oh.
Speaker 2:I love seeing that. Like I can't wait to see it when it comes out. Like will I watch it when it comes out? Probably not, um, but like when I do actually watch movies. Like around halloween amc has horror fest on it's background noise all month long. If I had to pick three top ones, I would say the blur witch project, grave encounters and Encounters and Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, oh weird Three, but those are my three and I'm sticking to it. No, not strange at all. I mean Blair Witch Project, excellent Agree, I've never seen Grave Encounters.
Speaker 2:Oh, that is see. Now there's a second one too. It is a. It's not even a mockumentary, it is a spinoff of Ghost Adventures. So if you ever heard me say grave adventures, I'm referencing this movie, because I constantly get the two confused.
Speaker 1:Got it.
Speaker 2:It's just grave adventures to me because they're mocking off Ghost Adventures. I know exactly what they're talking about Got it.
Speaker 2:But if you're into the paranormal world, think of it like it's a ghost hunting or like, yeah, it's a ghost adventures episode that goes wrong. There's a little like cheesy parts to it, but I really like it. It gave me a few good jump scares, like when I watched it. I watched it on my laptop for the first time and I was texting someone and I I jumped scared and like my phone sat me in my face it was. I was like that's incredible, like you got me there. But but yeah, I I would recommend it. I watched the second one. I should probably re-watch it again, but I I think as a paranormal investigator, it was just fun to see someone finally like take on like this idea of going on a ghost hunt and having things go wrong.
Speaker 2:So I don't know I don't want to spoil it too much, but okay I'm gonna watch it.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna watch it. I'm so excited I have. It's bizarre that I haven't even heard of it, because I feel like I'm always watching horror movies.
Speaker 2:But I'm going to it's kind of yeah, it's kind of like a b film, like it's not really like an indie, where, like no one's heard of it but, but it's also not that like mainstream. I think it was on Netflix.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'll report back. I can't wait to watch it. That's so exciting, courtney. It has been so fun. I feel like this is just part one, because I feel like this was like the basics and now I want to get into like the advanced level with you, because you've taught me a lot. I feel like I'm ready to go into Waverly Hills now with just like my phone and my flashlight and my open-mindedness and I'm going to accept whatever happens. I sincerely hope that our paths cross in person at some point this year, because that would be such a treat. But thank you so much for being on the podcast and talking through all of this. For anybody who doesn't follow Courtney if it's possible there's anybody please follow her. It's the Ghoul Guide. On TikTok, on Instagram, on Twitter, everywhere on social media, right YouTube, it's the Ghoul Guide.
Speaker 2:Ghoul Guide, same handle, same ghoul, same shenanigans.
Speaker 1:And Courtney also has incredible merch, which we have some incredible stickers and every so often she'll do like a Polaroid sale of different kind of haunted Polaroids of these really cool locations which I also use as bookmarks when I'm reading, and I love them. Yeah, so please, please, follow her on Instagram and everywhere else and kind of keep your eyes open for all this stuff, because it's 10 out of 10. Well, thank you, of course, of course. Thank you, guys, so much for listening and we'll talk to you soon. Bye.
