Understanding Metaphysics In Modern Life- With David Gaggin

🌌 Join us on a profound journey beyond the physical realm with David Gaggin, an accomplished electrical engineer and author of "Our Eternal Existence." Dive deep into the mysteries of metaphysics, consciousness, and the essence of our very existence. 📚

In this enlightening episode of Grief to Growth, host Brian Smith and guest David Gaggin challenge conventional boundaries between science and spirituality. Discover how metaphysics integrates philosophy, religion, and phenomena like ESP to offer a comprehensive understanding of the world around us.

🌟 Episode Highlights:
- What is metaphysics, and why does it matter?
- The connection between energy, consciousness, and our eternal nature.
- Insights into how our thoughts shape reality and the role of beliefs in daily life.
- A fascinating discussion on the potential of human consciousness and the metaphysical view of existence.

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Transcript

Brian Smith: 0:55

And you've introduced something called metaphysics. So tell me what metaphysics is. Meta means beyond.

David Gaggin: 1:01

And so So basically, it's beyond physics. So so what you're getting is, you know, the science looks at physics, the physical world, and metaphysics, it considers the physical world it considers religion, but it considers everything else to philosophy, ESP, all of the other things. So it's, it takes everything that that you could possibly think of. And, and it puts it into the package that says, Okay, we have to consider that we can't, we can't have certain elements like science says, well, ESP doesn't exist. Well, ESP does exist. And so that needs to be considered when we're trying to figure out, you know, what's going on around us. Close

Brian Smith: 1:52

your eyes, and imagine what are the things in life, the causes the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, or challenges, challenges designed to help us grow, to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if, like a seed we've been planted, and having been planted, would grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes, open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is grief to growth. And I am your host, Brian Smith. Welcome to another episode of grief to growth, where we delve into the essence of being the mysteries of existence, and the journey through life's ups and downs. Whether you're joining us for the first time, or you're a regular listener, I'm your host, Brian Smith, and I'm thrilled to have you with us today. And I'm really thrilled to have our guest today. His name is David Gaghan. He's remarkable individual, his life's work embodies the quest for understanding the deeper truths of our existence, all the stuff we talked about here on grief to growth, the nature of reality, the big questions. David is an accomplished electrical engineer. So we're fellow engineers. And if you case you don't know, I'm a chemical engineer. And he's made significant contributions to the fields of aviation and defense. But he's also embarked on a profound spiritual journey, seeking answers to some of life's most fundamental questions. Who am I? Where am I? And why am I here? He's the author of our eternal existence, a metaphysical perspective of reality. It's a book that blends a unique blend of science, spirituality, and metaphysics to explore the essence of who we are, and the reality that we inhabit. With the career spanning roles from designing flight control systems for Boeing helicopters, to being the CEO of carbon defense, electronic systems, and even hosts in the comments and spirituality show, as diverse experiences have helped shaped his intriguing perspectives on metaphysics, science, religious, religion, consciousness, and the power of thoughts and beliefs, all this stuff I love to talk about. So today, we're going to dive deep into those themes. We're going to challenge the conventional boundaries between science and spirituality. And we're going to explore the metaphysical view of the world that David passionately advocates, through our conversation, we really aim to uncover how thoughts shape our reality, the importance of beliefs in our daily lives, the fundamental nature of consciousness, and the profound connection that we share with the divine. So with that, I want to welcome David Gaghan, to grief to growth.

David Gaggin: 4:33

I'm Brian, nice to be here with you.

Brian Smith: 4:35

Yeah, I'm, as you could tell from our conversation before and from the intro, I'm really excited to have this conversation with you just to let you know a little bit my my background is mentioned, I'm a chemical engineer, I love exploring this kind of stuff. And as I was reading your bio, and about your book, I'm like, this is a guy, I want to have one and talk about the stuff with. But before we get started, you know, we have this battle we feel like between science and religion, and you introduce something called metaphysics. So tell me what metaphysics is.

David Gaggin: 5:07

That meta means, meta means beyond. And so So basically, it's beyond physics. So so what you're getting is, you know, the science looks at physics, the physical world, and metaphysics, it considers the physical world it considers religion, but it considers everything else tow philosophy, ESP, all of the other things. So it's, it takes everything that that you could possibly think of, and, and it, it puts it into the package that says, Okay, we have to consider that we can't, we can't have certain elements like science says, well, ESP doesn't exist. Well, ESP does exist. So we need to, we need to consider that if you're trying to figure out what's going on. Yeah,

Brian Smith: 6:01

I think that's absolutely true. And I guess there was a kind of a split between science and religion, you know, a couple 100 years ago where science said, we're going to just study the physical and religious set, we're just going to study the spiritual, and we stay in our silos. And it sounds like you're saying metaphysics is considering everything, right? And

David Gaggin: 6:17

it pulls it, it pulls them both in it, if you you know, a lot of times, some people they get down on on religion and say, hey, it's, you know, it's it, you know, it's a lot of dog buns such and then obviously, there is a lot of dogma in it. But if you go back long enough, you go back into the bog of Bhagavad Gita, you go back to the early religions, the early things that Jesus said, That's good stuff. And, and so that needs to be considered when we're trying to figure out, you know, what's going on around us? So, you know, you really need to, you really need to take the whole picture into account.

Brian Smith: 6:56

Yeah, so what got you interested in the metaphysical? Why?

David Gaggin: 7:01

No, that's a good question. My, when I was in high school, my dad would, he was an avid reader. And he, he gives me things like Velikovsky is world and collision and the, you know, and I'm, like, 14, or something, I read this, and I'd read it. And he'd said, What do you think? And I'd say, you know, Dad, I don't have a clue. Any give me Aku Aku. And, you know, Easter Island stuff, and I don't know, but I can I, when I couldn't help, but notice that that I wasn't getting taught any of it in school. And and then I, you know, I go to church, and I'd look around, and I'd see all this beautiful stained glass windows and the robes and the priests and ministers. And I'd think, I don't know what the answer is. But this probably, isn't it. And so I was just curious, I was curious all my life, and then, you know, then I had to go make a living. So I became an engineer. And, but I always studied the, you know, everything I could, along the way to see if I can figure out what's going on.

Brian Smith: 8:03

i Yeah, my background, I guess, is similar. And again, it was I was like, okay, they're telling me this one thing and religion and science is saying something completely different, you know, what if they're both bright, in a sense, you know, so I think a lot of times people feel like, we have to make a choice between one or the other.

David Gaggin: 8:21

Yeah, I think you're right. And, and each one has its own has its own piece. But if you look at, you know, you look at science, and you say, you know, quantum theory, and you can figure out what's going on there. But if you tie that in with metaphysics, all of a sudden metaphysics starts explaining how, how that really works, how to how quantum theory works, as an example. And so, yeah, you have to, you have to think of it all, you have to look at all of the stuff that's around us to really understand, the heck's going on.

Brian Smith: 8:58

And I know that you, you, you say the consciousness is fundamental. So first of all, what is consciousness to you? And in what way is it fundamental, consciousness

David Gaggin: 9:08

is an attribute of energy. And to me, energy is the only thing that exists, that's all arts, everything, that we see all the forms that we see all the shapes, it's just energy in a specific form. And so, so, consciousness is a is is an element and attribute of that energy, which means that everything is conscious, that conscious to some level, and what we're trying to do is evolve, what everything is trying to do is evolve to expand our consciousness. So so when we would look at, for example, an atom, an atom is conscious. Now it's not conscious, like you and I are conscious, but it's self aware, and it's aware of its surroundings. So its, its awareness would be much smaller and more confined than ours, but it is growing and evolving on its own. And our consciousness started out around there too. So we've all come a long way. And the beauty of it is we have a long way to go.

Brian Smith: 10:21

Yeah. So the idea that consciousness is fundamental is the idea that consciousness is its it is whatever things craved. That is what I think I hear you saying exactly.

David Gaggin: 10:34

Everything is conscious. And it's all created from energy, but that energy is conscious energy. And that's everything. That's That's God. That's everything. All the life force is the energy is the life force, and that life force is conscious. So that's, you know, you can't make any you can't create something that's not conscious. In other words, our car is conscious. But our car is very different than us, our car has no intent. You and I have an intent to do something to evolve to expand ourselves, our car has no intent or Volkswagen doesn't intend to become a Mercedes. It's just, it just, it just kind of is. And it in time, that car, all the conscious parts of that car, well, we'll leave the car and they'll go somewhere else, and they'll evolve somewhere else. They won't stop evolving, but they won't be a car anymore. They might remember being parts of that car, but they won't. That won't be a car, that'd be something else. Yeah,

Brian Smith: 11:37

that's a really interesting concept. And it seems to go back to I think a lot of religions, you know, in the past have taught that everything is conscious that the trees are conscious that the water is conscious that the rocks are conscious, and we've moved away from that in our in our materialistic scientific world. We said, well, no, this is consciousness. And that and that's not conscious. Like,

David Gaggin: 11:58

exactly, we, we've, well, you know, and as you look down, you know, you look look down and you say, Wait, you look at your pet, and your, you know, your pet is conscious. So it's not just humans, it's the pets, well, farther down the animal line there, there are clearly conscious to because you can see when they die. Well, plants are conscious, a lot of people don't realize that. But there's been a lot of very interesting experiments done on plants, where plants will actually recognize somebody who goes by if one saw an interesting article where somebody intentionally because it was an experiment, burned a leaf of a plant. And, and it had and they were they, they had instruments on the plants to see what how it reacted. And when that person came by, again, it would recoil. It wouldn't recoil with the other people, but it would recoil. It knew what that person had done to it. So you know, so you can start to see where consciousness, you know, even our science is starting to see that to see where how consciousness goes down, while of course goes down a lot lower than that, too. But it's kind of interesting that the science is coming along. And just a long way from it. But there's a lot of people, individual scientists that are that are realizing that the world is not as it appears to be.

Brian Smith: 14:01

Yeah, I've heard the expression that science progresses One funeral at a time.

David Gaggin: 14:07

I like it. I like Brian.

Brian Smith: 14:09

Yeah, you've got to get these guys out of the way that have this, this paradigm that says, you know, and it's funny what we're talking about consciousness and animals. And you said, of course, we know our pets are conscious. But when my daughter was in college, working on her psychology degree, they were they were debating about this and there are people in her class who were debating the animals aren't conscious. And I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. How could you not recognize that animals are conscious?

David Gaggin: 14:33

Exactly. It's a it's, it's some of the things that go on in our colleges are questionable at best.

Brian Smith: 14:41

Yeah. And the experiment you mentioned, I heard recently, there's an experiment they put when they put plants and they'll have like, two dishes at the bottom one with water and, and one without water. And the plant will grow towards this with the water in it now, you know, that is expressing to me. And tech is showing consciousness. And and I guess they even put like a recording of running water under one side and the plant would grow toward that.

David Gaggin: 15:06

Yeah, fascinating stuff. Really, really interesting stuff.

Brian Smith: 15:11

So what is the implication of consciousness being fundamental and consciousness being with everything and everything being conscious? Well,

David Gaggin: 15:20

I think, you know, I think he, it just changes our whole perspective of the world and where we are and why we're here. And in a way, you know, we think of ourselves, as, you know, being plopped down here and we don't know why and everything and we're very different from everything else. And it turns out, we're not different from everything else. Were the same as everything else. And and religion is big to say, Yeah, well, there's God out there and God and you are very different. And the fact of the matter is, we're different in the level of consciousness without a doubt, but but our but our substance are fundamental substances different, you know, we were just not very far along on the path compared to where the cow or a universal consciousness or you know, whatever you want to call it, God is so so the implication is huge. And it and it also it tells you that, hey, this isn't a one shot deal. You know, you're not, you're not just coming down here having a life and then bingo, you're that's the end of it. And, and the thing about that is that you're, you're end up responsible for your actions. And once you realize you're responsible for your actions, you'll think twice about some of the actions that you decide to do, what goes around comes around you, you know, you're not going to be a terrorist, if you think that, you know, you're going to be caught up by a terrorist next time around, you know, so you're going to, you're going to think differently about your how you treat other people, other people are going to think differently, how they treat you, well, it'd be a lot better if they really, you know, you realize that, hey, we're, we're all part of one. And we're just trying to learn about basically ourselves, you know, that's what God's trying to Tao or Universal Consciousness, he's trying to turn about a turn about it learn about itself, because that's all that exists. Everything is within the towel. And so, you know, so what are we trying to learn about? We're trying to learn about ourselves, our little tiny piece of the towel? And that's no, that's that's what our focus is. Yeah,

Brian Smith: 17:40

it's a really interesting concept that I ran across, read Tom Campbell's book, my big toe, my big theory of everything. And he talks about the creation of the how everything came into existence, which sounds similar to like maybe the Christian creation story, but we've said that God is perfect, God is complete within God's self, God doesn't need to learn anything that God doesn't need to grow. And my understanding of this, this is like the exact opposite that God is learning through being us

David Gaggin: 18:09

without a doubt. And, and and, you know, that's, can you imagine, what what hell would really be if you were never going to learn anything, and you were just sat there, perfect. I mean, that's no way to go through eternity. And, and, and, and so you know, the value of learning is what gives us a value of enjoyment and, and an existence. And, and so you're not going to get, you know, God is not going to want to want to be something that is stagnant is, you know, is complete. It's it, God is evolving, just like the rest of us just just evolve farther, a lot farther, but, but still farther, and we have a chance we'll never catch up. But we'll always have new interesting things that we're learning, we're growing. And we'll add, and what we learn goes into God's database. God, you know, he's, he's using us to help him learn, and I use the him only because that's the way our language works. You know, there is no, there is no gender, except when you're in the physical world. Yeah,

Brian Smith: 19:30

it's just said that, that kind of flips what Some religions teach on his head, that God is God's complete, God is perfect. And when we say learning, it's not necessarily gaining knowledge, but gaining experience, what's it like, to whatever,

David Gaggin: 19:45

right, I, that's, that's really how we do learn, we have experiences, that's what we come down here to learn to do, to experience and what comes out of it is a psychological understanding of something. And it's, it's, you know, we don't have, we think we have physical experiences, but these, but all of these physical things around us, like this computer that you and I are working on, on my desk, and my chair, and, you know, these, these, these are, these are just items or symbols that allow me to have a psychological experience with you. And, and, and that's all that there is their psychological experiences. And those are the experiences that are remembered by our inner self and you get transferred up to the, you know, to our soul and inner spirit and up. So psychologic experiences that end up in the Akashic records, if you will, to you know, it's it's not the physical stuff, physical stuff is not going to be around here forever. But those psychological experiences will be around forever. And and so it's a psychological experiences that really the only thing that that matter, the rest of it is, you know, the tools that allow us to have events and you know, and discussions and whatever.

Brian Smith: 21:12

So, when it comes to the metaphysical how do we study something like that? How do we even go about to to explore that Oh,

David Gaggin: 21:22

wait, no, there's there's a lot of ways there, there are channels that you can, that you can use. Michael is one of the ones that I use Shepard Goodwin was. And he is, in our eternal existence, he did the foreword for me, he said, he's a channel for an entity and an entity is basically 1000 souls. And this is his definition of it. And, and it's 1000 souls that have gotten together and they've had their experiences on on this planet, they're done with the physical planet for at least this particular grand grand cycle for a while anyway. And there and there happened to be in the causal plane, which is the next one up, we have seven fields of creation and the causal plane or field, if you will, is the one right above the astral and, and, and the astral is the one that that we go to when we die, and we go back and forth between the astral and the physical. But anyway, this group eventually comes together, and they came here together, and they and they left together and they're up in the causal field. In the causal field, one of the things you do is you interface and try to help humanity and you know, whatever level you can, after you go up into the higher fields, you get kind of you get away generally you get away from humanity for a while. But what you do is you talk to him, and they give you answers. And they're fascinating. You can ask him anything you want, and they'll give you an answer. And they're fascinating people, but you know, and Seth was another one, she came, so Jane Roberts. And, you know, some people, you know, are saying that they can contact Seth right now. I haven't been all that pleased with the ones that I've looked at better, that are contacting except now, but I'm very pleased with what Jane Roberts did. Of course, she died in the What the 80s I guess it was a 1980s. there abouts. So anyway, yeah, it's, it's, you know, you can study at the there is information there. And, and quite frankly, there's a lot of, you know, out of body experiences are, are good way to study aspects of it, near death experiences in a lot of those. And they're, and they're basically out of body experiences, but a certain aspect of an out of body experience. But there's a lot of ways to, you know, that you can look at them, you can look at apparitions, and I nearly say okay, what's an apparition? You know, and I'll do they really exist? Well, they do exist, and they, and it's just, you know, it's it's a particular soul that hasn't stopped focusing, you know, it's lost his body, but it hasn't stopped focusing on the physical world. And so it's kind of halfway in between, and part of its consciousness is still still, you know, available in its aura. And, you know, around won't be forever, but it's, you know, so there's, there's a whole bunch of ways and all these ESP things that they're doing remote viewing is an interesting way to do it. You know, Russell Targ did some fabulous work on that, you know, so there's a lot of ways to study metaphysics. And

Brian Smith: 24:58

it's interesting as you say that because science is kind of tiptoed around their study pre cognition, they study ESP. They've studied remote viewing, of course, you know, little bit of like telekinesis, and they'll, they'll dabble in it, but then you'll get some people that call themselves hardcourt scientists, who will swear because they can't explain it that it cannot exist, that it just it can't exist. Right?

David Gaggin: 25:23

But then they can't explain quantum mechanics. Yet they accept that. So where do you go there? Yeah, but

Brian Smith: 25:29

they bought into that kicking and screaming though they

David Gaggin: 25:32

did it. They did indeed.

Brian Smith: 25:36

No, no, no, Einstein didn't even like the idea. Yeah,

David Gaggin: 25:39

I didn't know he didn't. David Boehm. I remember David Bohm. He wrote, A probably wrote the quintessential book on quantum mechanics. And his book is, while you really got it, if you want to really study his book, it's a deep book. But he's had other other books that that he talked more philosophically. And he was, he worked with Einstein for years, and they had a falling out when he said, Hey, there's, you know, you know, this quantum mechanics is real, and Einstein wouldn't go along with it. So they kind of split ways, but interesting, interesting guy,

Brian Smith: 27:02

you know, and it's funny as we talk Talk about consciousness. And I think about some of these, you know, so called philosophers. I can't remember the guys name at the moment. But he basically said, because they can't explain consciousness that well, it doesn't exist. It's just a it's an illusion. It's an elaborate illusion, that we fooled ourselves into thinking, we have consciousness, and I just laugh when I hear stuff.

David Gaggin: 27:25

It's amazing. That's amazing. That's some otherwise intelligent people. You know, they, you know, they just can't, they just can't see it. I mean, how many scientists have said, Hey, we're the only we're the only planet out there with life on it, you know? I mean, right? It's just, it's just hard to understand that people could think that way. But they do.

Brian Smith: 27:49

So when you when you have this, this philosophy, this view of life, where that religion kind of says, Okay, well, that's, that's that, right? Because God has this or that, or, and science says, well, that's not even possible. How do we how do we bring this to people is that so they don't just dismiss it as, because what you were talking about, like channeling and out of body experiences, I hear the word woowoo all the time. That's, that's woowoo Yeah.

David Gaggin: 28:21

And you have to be ready for it. You know, there's a lot of people that aren't ready for it yet. But more and more people are coming, more and more people are are becoming ready to look at the world and realize that we live in this illusion. And and and understand it I you know that the age Michael says that the the age of mankind is growing, because, you know, there's five different ages that we're here, there's infant baby, young, mature and old, there's a couple other ages, but we don't, we don't go through those in the physical plane here. And, and, and if you get as many old people that are dying, and going out the other end, and infants coming in, and the age of mankind is not going to go anywhere, but apparently because of the difficulty in our society, they've stopped putting new infants in, and therefore mankind, our culture is getting older and older. And right now we're about level five or six mature. And, and as as, as you said, as people die, then they come back at a little bit higher level than they were before. And so you've got all of these people coming back at a higher level. So So are we're getting smarter, we're getting wiser, the whole the whole culture is you and I don't say it so much. Because we see such a snapshot in time such a small instance. But but if you took a broader picture of it, the world is is getting wiser. Because because of that. I

Brian Smith: 30:17

have never heard that before. But that makes sense to me. So because it'd be a people I've heard also played like, okay, we're like a baby planet, we have a bunch of babies souls right here that don't know what they're doing. And I could see, like, whatever I was looking at this overseeing or we have a problem here we've got to up the intelligence of these of this planet.

David Gaggin: 30:40

Yes, and that's and that's exactly what's happening. But you know, we're, we are in an r&d environment, and not just us, this whole universe is an r&d environment. And they're trying to figure out you know, there's a lot of different souls at about our level, and I say a lot a stay, I couldn't even give you a number, you know, around the around the universe, that you know, that that the the Tao, if you will, is trying to figure out what's the best way to evolve the souls. So on our planet, we have been, we have been given a, an unlimited amount of aggression that we can do well, while some some planets, that aggression gets capped, you know, you only get so so frustrated and all of a sudden, bingo, you're capped. And and that makes for a much pleasant or planet, but you don't grow as fast as we're allowed to grow here. Now the problem with here is we could we have the capability of dissolving ourselves right? Self Destruction, but what happens if we do well, we could ruin the planet. But what would happen is we would make the planet so it was in an uninhabitable for certainly us and maybe maybe everything else that's on here and on the way of plants and animals but whatever it was, what we do, we just end up We'd all learned a lesson that Tao would learn a lesson. And we go to some other planet and, you know, and continue on revolution. So, you know, it's not, you know, it's not the end of the world if it happens, but but we're an experiment where we are allowed to be unlimited our aggression is it can be unlimited. And so, you know, so makes for a tough life. But you know, we chose it. When we weren't told to come here, we were offered an opportunity to come here, because we could evolve faster if if we made the right decisions, then we could in other places, so that's why we came here. Yeah, I have enough life. Yeah,

Brian Smith: 32:49

I have a friend who's very metaphysical and out of body experiences and stuff like that. And we were having lunch one day, and I'll never forget, he was like, you know, because I think he said he was play at and, and he said, You can learn more in like, 10 minutes on Earth, you can learn in like, 10,000 years, and some other environments, because of the contrast. And so, when we're here with you, this is like, this is a disaster, this is a mess, why would God allow, you know, this to happen? And but it's because of that challenge allows us to grow? Yes,

David Gaggin: 33:22

that's absolutely right. And, and the other thing is, you know, we fear death, because we don't understand it, the death is just changing your focus, death is you wouldn't want it any other way. You wouldn't want to be down here in this body forever and ever, you'd want to you want to go and start fresh and start new. And, and so what you do is, is when it comes time to die, and by the way, we we plan our death, just like we plan our birth. So it depends on what path we choose. And we have a complicated free life plan that does that. But we pick one of these paths, as we go along the way. And, and and that path tells us when when we're going to exit when we're getting out of here, the spiritual world knows, when you and I are going to die, we don't know. But the spiritual world does be. And our inner self, our inner soul knows certainly, but but we don't. But it's but once you realize that death is nothing, it's just a finish of this particular personality. But the but the mind, you know, and your inner self is remembers everything and you know, and then it goes back and digest what it did and tries to learn from it. And then and then the soul creates another personality. So you know, you know, David Gagan and Brian Smith are never coming back again. But but our soul is coming back and add in our personalities, well, that will always exist. And we'll just come back in a different form with different biases, different different experiences that we want to do, that the soul wants to do. It's the soul it's making these decisions up. And so, you know, we we ended up you know, how you know, death is is is really something that's not to be worried about. And once you and once you get over your fear of death, and you can, and you can start to live? Yeah.

Brian Smith: 35:27

That's a great point. And you just said something that I understand you that I've come to only recently in the last several years, because, again, we hear some religions say that we reincarnate. And then we hear some Christians say we absolutely do not because we only the man only dies once and you know, whatever, whatever that verses that they pull out. And I think it's I was looking at, like, how did this how do we reconcile these two things? So I said kind of, I think the way you said it's like, the soul creates a personality like a Brian or Dave Gagan, and we come here there's only one life is Brian, there's only one Brian Well, Brian will not come back here. But when I saw we'll create another personality that that's an aspect of the whole lives have the experiences and those experiences kind of roll up into the soul. Yeah,

David Gaggin: 36:15

that's exactly right. And your, your, your psyche, your parts of your consciousness will be in the subconscious of that of that personality. In other words, our our subconscious we have you know, we have what I break it up into and our eternal existence in three and three ways and I say okay, we have an ego and that ego is the part of our consciousness that focuses on the physical plane and that and that ego is runs the show when it's here because it has to, it has to make the decision that step back a buses coming, and and and so it runs then we have a subconscious and that subconscious runs our body and it pumps our heart you know, A breeze for us, and it does all releases the hormones and does everything. But there's another part of the subconscious that has all of our past memories and in our past lives, and so the personalities that that our soul created, you know, in this and this time around, they're all in our subconscious. So we have we have access to that, that information. And a lot of that is your is your intuition that, you know, you think you ought to do something, you go against your intuition, you're going against something you've already learned. And I don't know if how many times you've gone against your intuition, but every time I've done it, it never works out too. Well. Yeah,

Brian Smith: 37:48

I think that's, that's the that's what makes sense to me. And that's something that I haven't heard a lot of people speak of it that way. Again, it's usually there's the one or the other, either there's reincarnation or there's not, but there's, there's, I love the way you put that it's like all of our other cars have what we call our past lives. They're all they're all still with us. And that's what we have, I think a lot of the tendencies that we have, and we you can see children do not come in as blank slates that just did absolutely do not.

David Gaggin: 38:14

Absolutely do not. When you when you see a Mozart writing a concert when he's five, you're pretty much no, but that child had a whole bunch, you know, when he when he showed up? And and everybody does, everybody's a little different. But everybody shows up with a with with a whole bunch of capabilities.

Brian Smith: 38:36

Now, and for people that are that are new to these concepts. You know, one of the questions we always get is like, Well, why did? What's the point of me forgetting everything? You know, if I've learned all this stuff before I come back here, and I can't remember anything, then what's the point? What, Why, why why the veil? Or whatever you want to call it? Yeah,

David Gaggin: 38:55

well, that's the you know, that's just kind of the the way, the way it goes, you have to, you have to forget. Because one, you work with other people. And they're the same people, that maybe there's a lot of them. But But for example, your your, your parents might have been your children before? Well, you couldn't you couldn't function if you if you had those two relationships going. So you have to forget what you had. Because again, what you're here to learn is to have experiences and those experiences are the key thing. And and it doesn't, you know, if you make a mistake, well, that's fine. But because you come at that particular problem from a different perspective. In other words, you come down here and you have biases, you have attitudes, and you have modes you're in and you have roles that you're playing. And these are physical biases, or psychological biases that you have. So you're different. So when you come down there, and you have the same experience, you don't, it's not really the same experience. Because you're coming at that problem from a different perspective. So it's a different aspect of that. So it may seem like, and it may look like you got you made the same mistake again. But you made whatever you did, you did it from a different perspective. So you're really learning things very differently. You're having different experiences. And as you said earlier, it's really the experiences that we're that we're here to have. And that's what we learned from all of these experiences.

Brian Smith: 40:40

Yeah, and it's funny because every sometimes I don't know why. It seems like the memories or something, whatever break through it, we have these children that are looking at their parents and say things like Well, when I was big, in how or when I was I used I was a World War Two fighter pilot and they'll describe all the people that they were with and their and their plane and the ship that they were on and stuff like that. And I just find that kind of stuff fascinating when it seems like the veil gets kind of found or broken for every once in a

David Gaggin: 41:09

while. It does and it's usually the children because Ian Stevenson you I don't know if you've familiar, he he did a lot of studies on on children and he said that, you know, he found many of them that that remembered their past life and you're talking about five year rolls four or five, six year olds and, and and by the time that they were they were teenagers 1213 Most of them had forgotten completely. And and by the time they were done their teenage years, every one of them had forgotten. So you know, this veil is you know, most of the people don't you know, the veil is veils pretty heavy when you're when you're born but you know even for the ones that the veil is, you know that they can see through and peek through. You know, that will be closed You know, as they grow up and become adults, yeah.

Brian Smith: 42:09

Are you familiar with Christian Sundberg? Sunberg? No, he wrote a book called A Walk in the physical. And he talks about when he came in, he describes being veiled and coming in and all that. And I guess even when he was born, you know, the veil he had, like, he knew what was going to be what was going to happen. He remembered his plan and everything. But it went away when he was like, five. And then he started having memories again, when he was like, 30. So he's kind of like, been this back and forth thing where it's like, but I guess when he when he made the green with the committee's I want to be able to see through the veil, otherwise, I'm not going. So yeah, that deal?

David Gaggin: 42:47

Well, you know, you can do that, you know, you can set you can set that up, as that's one of the experiences that you want to you want to have. Yeah, but and I'll tell you, you can, you can see, you know, you get go to a medium and these mediums, they, you know, they can see through parts of the veil, that's why they're able to, you know, communicate with, you know, the other side, what we call the other side, you know, because, you know, they have the telepathic capability. That's mean, we all have it, but they have it, they control theirs, and it's a little stronger than what we have. Right.

Brian Smith: 43:25

Right. Well, you talked about channeling earlier. And it's my perception seems like there are a lot more channels. I mean, I have maybe people just talking about it. But I keep hearing more and more channels and people channeling different entities. So I've, I've read the stuff materials, it's fascinating stuff. On the spider, I can't think of some of the other entities that people are channeling, but there are people channeling all these different entities. You mentioned Michael and Michael. Yeah, we think of we think of them as individuals, but it's really a collection of souls or beings. And you mentioned a little bit about what they're telling us. But I keep hearing kind of like what you said that the mankind is evolving. We're, we're on the cusp of something bigger or some sort of breakthrough. Have you? Is that been your experience? Have you heard that? Yeah,

David Gaggin: 44:11

yes, absolutely. And and you get that from? I've got that from both SAS and US South End. And Michael, you know, and they're saying, you know, that, you know, there's, there's a lot of wise young beings reincarnating these days, and it's, you know, and society is indeed moving forward. And yes, there is, you know, there will be, there will be some major, major changes along the way. I don't know how sudden they'll be, but they'll be you know, there'll be major changes. But, you know, I, you know, it's funny how, you know, I, you know, the other thing that Michael made very clear is that is that we're only given a certain amount of technology, we we weren't given the atomic bomb, until they thought we can handle it. I'm not sure. I'm not sure, it was a wise decision. But in any case, it was a decision, we won't be allowed to. So there, they say, We won't be allowed to interface with other less developed civilizations until we until we learn how to get rid of killing in our own. Now, they'll let us interface with more developed, because we can't hurt them. But but, you know, we have to, you know, for us to have other areas opened up to us, we have to change ourselves as as a culture. And, and we're doing it and they're helping us do it.

Brian Smith: 45:50

You mentioned something really interesting there. It's kind of an aside, I guess, but you talked about technology. And my I'm sorry, I'm under the belief that technology or technology does come from the other side. And it's interesting, because science fiction writers they predicted like stuff like we have now. I think that was channeled, it was like, Who could ever envision you know, wireless communication or pictures going, you know, television, stuff like that. So, um, so you're saying that there's this kind of like, okay, these guys, they can't handle this, we can't have that. They can't have that until they're more mature. Right?

David Gaggin: 46:25

I agree with you. 100% Everything that is created here had its origin in the spiritual world, everything and and so we're given some and on a lot of these guys like Tesla, and Einstein, they'll they'll tell you that they you know that, you know, this kind of cane tool. And, and, you know, you don't just sit there and figure it out. Somebody you know, is giving that to you and bringing that along and entering that into the into society. You know, there's a lot of very, very Wise beings that are helping us evolve and trying to figure they're not perfect. But they're they're very wise. And they're trying to figure out what's a good way for us to develop and evolve, because that's really the whole idea is for us as as a society and us as individuals to evolve and become wiser as we as we, as we go along. Now,

Brian Smith: 47:29

have you heard about some of these ancient civilizations that had like, super advanced technology that? I don't know, for whatever reason? They're not here anymore?

David Gaggin: 47:39

Yeah, I did. I'm not sure that they're not here anymore. Quite frankly, I'm very confident that they are. But they're, they're not playing the role that they used to play. give you that. But I asked. Michael said, How old's the pyramid? And he said, and he says, Well, you know, it's a lot harder question than you would expect. Because there's, you know, there's a lot of other aspects of time that are, you know, that are hard, harder to explain, but he said, to give you the best answer, you know, that I can, he said, The Great Pyramid was, was about six is about 16 17,000 years old. Wow. I said, who built it, and he said it the UN aliens civilization provided the technology for man to build it. And, and you can see that that's empty, and it's all over the place all over the planet. You know, it's just so obvious that, you know, there was an advanced society living here, you know, right now, we're saying, wow, you know, great, you know, the guys that built the Great Pyramid, were, you know, they just came out of the woods or the desert and put this thing together. I mean, we've got to do it today. And I mean, it's silly stuff. But that's what that's what mainstream, that's all that they, they're hanging their hat on it. Because they know otherwise. They don't want to admit that there's a spiritual world behind the physical world. And that's got the man that's got them saying some really crazy things. The Big Bang Theory is perfect sample. Yeah, yeah, it just, it just didn't happen. And, and, you know, but the implications are big, because now all of a sudden, you're gonna have people saying, what, I got one shot at being living here, there's nothing afterwards and therefore, greed is the name of my game. And, and, and that's a real problem. And that's, you know, so there science in that, from that perspective is doing is doing a lot of harm, because, you know, you can't, you can't take science and create an ethical is a set of standards out of it. You have to, and, you know, religion tried, but then, you know, the too many guys got their, you know, their oar in the water, and they screwed it up along the way. But but, you know, you need something like metaphysics, which is the only way you're ever going to get an ethical standard, put into the, you know, put into this, this culture, you have to, you have to people have to accept responsibility for their own actions. And, and, and you need an ethical standard to, you know, for them to do that, for them to understand why that that's critical. Yeah,

Brian Smith: 50:44

I think what you just said is so important, because I know a lot of materialists, atheist, atheist materialist tried to say, well, we can be moral without religion. And it's really interesting, because we do have this influence of religion or society, whether we want to deny it or not. So at least that gave us something to start with. Because if you just come from the material, and I am just a accident of nature, and there are there are no morals by that materialistic standard, there's no and I've been there no consequences beyond whatever short life I have, then, why not do anything? You know? There's really a few if you're just gonna come from that perspective, there's no reason to respect anybody else or anything else.

David Gaggin: 51:29

That's exactly right. And, you know, we used to leave it up to parents and they tried to do it and some parents do do it. You know, they help but but a lot of people need more than that. And it's pretty clear that a lot of people need more than that. And so I think that's really, that's really hurting our you know, our evolution, quite frankly.

Brian Smith: 51:51

I think it is, too. I think we took a big step backward. When we moved away from again, religion spirituality, as flawed as it might have been, at least it told us something about the questions who you are. I liked To explore who we are, why we're here, where we're going, what's the purpose of all this? If you take the metaphysical item or you take the spiritual out of it, you can't answer any of those questions. And science doesn't even try materialism doesn't even try.

David Gaggin: 52:19

That's exactly right. And and if you go back far enough a religion was it had a lot of good answers, I mean, a lot of good answers, go back to the you know, Hinduism, you know, has gone gone gone crazy, but if you look at the basis of Hinduism, you know, it was, you know, Krishna and you know, what he, you know, what he explained back there, and the Bhagavad Gita and piranhas and all of this others good stuff. And and it's, you know, it's something that you could, you know, that that is one fits our metaphysical view these days. Exactly. And, and it's not, you know, it hasn't been distorted by mankind over the, you know, over the timeframe. Yeah,

Brian Smith: 53:04

it's interesting, because I have a friend who's Hindu, and I've had him on my program a couple of times, and he was telling me about, you know, this stuff that Hinduism, I started, like, looking at more of it, I'm like, This is what the metaphysical stuff guys are telling us today. This is people like Bernardo kastrup, that they're introduced me that idealism, the idea that everything is consciousness. And he talks about like these creation stories, you know, the creator, you know, fell into a dream or the birth, the birth, earthwards, was birthed out of the crater. It's all the stuff that we're talking about is like, it's all starts with an idea. And I'll start with a dream. And we are like characters in a dream or in a dream. And science is finally starting to come around today, there's just a holographic universe, does anything really exist? Wow,

David Gaggin: 53:51

more, more and more people are coming around. It's they're coming. It's slow. And it's not mainstream these days. But then when you ask yourself, well, what is mainstream science? Well, mainstream science is it's in the universities. And it's and it's basically what the head of the department has to say, right? And when he goes, then somebody else can step in, and you'll get more evolution that happens in that department. As as time goes on, as people go on? Well,

Brian Smith: 54:22

it's What can I get a grant for? It's like, where's it's worth? Where's the money? And I've always I'm working on a project called the soul phone that we've been working on for years trying to get a physical device to communicate on the other side. And you you can't get funding for something like that in mainstream science? Because, first of all, they say it's impossible. Right? And then Where's where's the money in it? What's it gonna do for me?

David Gaggin: 54:50

Yeah, it's all about it's all about the money. Yes. Yeah. Which is unfortunate.

Brian Smith: 54:57

So, um, you know, I think I just say, Do you channel Michael, have you channeled? I

David Gaggin: 55:03

do not channel? Michael. I do not, I do not have channeling capabilities that are developed well enough to do that.

Brian Smith: 55:14

Yeah, I don't either. But as I said, I think it's really interesting that finding more and more people seem to be channeling. So I'm like, it feels like, for what I'm hearing is like, we're kind of at a tipping point. And we are at a point where we know we can destroy ourselves. And it's, and we have multiple ways of destroying yourself. It's not just the atomic bomb, it's, you know, it's estimated, it's climate change. And, you know, there's, we can pick our pick. And so I wonder, seems like as you're saying, we're starting to get more help, because we're like, okay, these guys are at a point of crisis. Right.

David Gaggin: 55:46

I think that's, that's very, very true. But as far as that, you know, channeling channeling has various ways. My wife died six years ago, and my and after she died, my youngest daughter was, was able to do automatic writing with her. And that's very interesting. And so, you know, so I think people are developing these kinds of capabilities, and they don't realize that they have them. But, you know, when a circumstance presents itself, you know, and it's hard enough and it's emotional enough, then, you know, more and more people are able to tap into this interface with, you know, with the other side.

Brian Smith: 56:33

Yeah, well, I'm sorry to hear about your wife. But I know that again, it's just my perception. It's just anecdotal. But it seems like more people are tapping into and we're getting permission I love people complaining about social media and they complain about the internet. I love the fact that now like, I can put this program out and someone can can can have access to it and I've learned so much from like, just being on YouTube and watching people channel and listening and finding out more stuff. So I think as as we get premiere Question. to tap into these abilities, we all have them sort of certain level, and we can develop them and circumstances, a lot of times drive, it drives us to it right. It's the loss of that person that I really need to get in contact with that person. So the automatic writing skill comes online. Yeah,

David Gaggin: 57:23

I think that's absolutely right. More and more of it's happening, more and more people are being able to develop the capability that we all have, we all have that capability. It's just that we, we don't use it as well as we could, if we figured out how to do it.

Brian Smith: 57:42

Yeah, another thing I want to talk to you about is, I know you talked about dreams and the subconscious. So tell me about the role of dreams in our lives.

David Gaggin: 57:50

Okay, dreams are different than anything you can possibly imagine. Yeah, there, there is an AI and that I, that you and I have an eye during the day, and that's our ego. And that's the the ego is the part of our consciousness, that's the eye while the eye in the in your dream is not your ego, because your ego is asleep, ego is not focused on the dreams, the eye in your, in your dreams is your is your inner self. And what's happening is when you die, and as I mentioned earlier, you know, you have all of these these past personalities within your subconscious. And when you die, you have not resolved all the issues in your life. So those issues still need to be resolved. So what's happening is that is the dream world is indeed a reality, just like the physical world is it's different. It's it runs under different, different universal principles, you know, that a field can turn into a building, and a person can turn into another building, virtually instantaneous in your dream. But But, but that's a real thing that's really happening, just like it's not using the material that we have here that my desk is made out of. But it's using pseudo pseudo material. And it's, you know, it's very real stuff and what it's doing as the the soul is going through, and it's and it's choosing, which which issues it wants to experience. So it's, it's actually, it's actually going through and solving the problems that are leftover from our past lives. While the problem with that, as one we don't see much of it, right, we see just just the tip of have one of these drains when we wake up. So we're, we're saying just a piece of it. Well, the other problem is, these, these lives that they have had very different symbols symbols meant different things, I mean, simple things like like fire, right fire can where it can be comforting, if you're you're used to lying in front of a fireplace with your honey and having a nice time or fire can be very fearful if it burned down your house burned down your business and you know and such. So, so that symbol, it will be very different. You know from life to life, and individually individual Well, cell will all be other symbols. So the symbols that you will have seen, and maybe a personality that lived 1000 years ago would mean very different things to them than they seem to you. So trying to interpret an understanding, understand what these dreams meant is an extremely difficult task. However, the good part about dreams, as you and me because we're living lives, we have number one priority for our soul to help us solve our problems. So if we go to bed at night, and we try to, you know, right before we go to sleep, or put a note under your pillow, that says I want to, you know, I want to solve this problem, your inner conscious will solve that problem for you, it's a lot easier to get, you know, to to get your dreams to do what you need done than it is to understand what all these dreams mean. Because you just that you just don't have the you know, the understanding of the of the basic symbols that are being used in and a dream world. But dreams are it's a it's a different reality. It's not the it's but it's a very real reality and those experiences you will remember them forever. And they are just as important as the physical experiences that you have in this life, your dreams. That's

Brian Smith: 1:01:52

a really interesting perspective, you know, and it's funny because as I've started studying more and more, I'm having more lucid dreams. And sometimes in my dream world, I realized I'm dreaming and I'll Light, this is really cool that I created this wall or that sun really feels real, you know, I'll have that thought in my dream. And I'm taking more that into my waking life. And I'm working with this woman now that the calls this whole thing that we're in a dream and she's like, the goal is to become lucid in the dream. So I know even I think you and I probably have you at similarly, everything around us is it's just as real just as unreal as when we're dreaming. Because we wake up from a dream, when we're in the dream, we're like, this is real. And we wake up in our bed and we go, oh, it was just a dream. Right? You

David Gaggin: 1:02:40

can carry your conscious if you train yourself well enough, you can carry your conscious self, not the ego, but your other parts of your conscious self into your dreams and see the dreams. It's not an easy task, but you can you can train yourself for Yeah, sounds like you're making progress in that. And that's great. Yeah,

Brian Smith: 1:02:59

the idea of, of lucid dreaming is really, you know, it's fascinating to me, and I'm working on that. But then, like I said, the other thing is, is becoming lucid within this dream that we're in right now. Well, yeah, understanding that I'm not the I'm not the guy sitting in the chair. This is an avatar. Yeah, that's

David Gaggin: 1:03:18

about right. That's, that's right. Your psyche is what is the real you and, you know, this is, this is a body that it's a vehicle to vehicle to, to be able to experience this reality, if, in our inner self, our soul, if you will, can experience this reality, because it sees right through it. Right. And, and so you need to, you need to have something that has, you know, our outer senses to, you know, to be able to sense it a reality is what two things one, the energy has to be in a certain position, and, and then a certain configuration, and then you have to have the senses to be able to perceive that energy. And so as we're very complicated being to be able to actually, you know, exist in this in this strange reality that we're in it is a strange reality. Very strange reality. But we're, we're tuned to it. Yeah.

Brian Smith: 1:04:20

And, you know, we were talking earlier about the art technology gets channeled from the other side, I think a lot of our, our art gets gets channeled from the other side, and especially movies, and I'd see, you know, there's a lot of movies now about the multiverse. You know, that's, that's a big theme and action movies actually now. But the movie, I think, the matrix, the movie Avatar, you know, those movies have a lot, a lot of really deep, metaphysical, spiritual themes to them, that people I think, can grasp on a certain level.

David Gaggin: 1:04:55

Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're absolutely right. Like art comes in virtually everything that we get comes from the other side, you know, I don't appreciate that. But, but yeah, everybody comes with certain gifts, to be able to get it. And some people have stronger gifts, and they're the ones that, you know, are the Michelangelo's, if you will, or the, you know, the great movie, producers, and so on, so forth. Yeah,

Brian Smith: 1:05:20

I keep coming back to the movie, The Matrix, which I don't know how long ago that was at this point. But every time I watch it, I get something different out of it. And, and I tied into, like, the conversation that we're having today that, you know, that's talks about everything being code, and it just, there's an ultimately, I mean, it's, that doesn't translate perfectly. But the idea of that we are, these are avatars that were in his reality. That's, that's, it's a configuration for us to have this experience. And so, getting back to your, your book, and we've talked about a lot of the themes, and and we've already touched on this, but tell people if when they get this book, how it's going to change their perspective,

David Gaggin: 1:06:03

okay? Our eternal existence, a metaphysical perspective of reality will give you will, will allow you to have a more realistic view of who you are, and what you're doing here and the world that you live in. And it gives you a much better feel for how you should act, what you should do, why you do things and it's certainly if you're the type of person that says hey, I'm a victim poor pitiful me Everything happens to me, it will show you that it's, it's you made all these decisions, you created this world. And, and and all of your problems are self created. And oh, by the way, because of that, you and only you can solve those problems. You can fix your problems, but nobody else can. And we always say you know, we have a tendency to blame it on the boss or the spouse or the society or whatever we want to blame it on. And What we don't realize is that we create all of our problems and all of the things that go well for us, then we ought to take credit for the good things in our life. And we ought to realize that, hey, if we want to improve our life, whether that's our health, or our financial situation, or whatever, we have the capability of doing that. And, and, you know, so that's really what our internal existences is all about. It's how it's as you're trying to put the power back in the individual, so that they can realize that, hey, they're running their show. And, and, and nobody else is running it for him. And they chose their parents, they chose their, you know, their friends, they chose their kids, they chose the world that they're living in, and how they react to the decisions that they made. That's, that's up to them.

Brian Smith: 1:07:57

Yeah, that it's a very sensitive thing when we say that you chose us, because, you know, sometimes people will feel like, well, you You're blaming me for my problems? You know, it's not my, you know, it's you're saying it's my fault, because and, and even the word problem can be a problem. I like the word challenges. Because I do believe that we create challenges for ourselves to see how we're going to how we're going to deal with them. And I've talked to people who've had near death experiences that will say, Yes, I chose this abusive father, this abusive mother, I chose to have this. So I get so my soul could grow. So it for me, when you really get this, your perspective shifts as to what's a problem? And what's a challenge?

David Gaggin: 1:08:45

I agree with that. I agree with that. I think you're right. I think that's looking at it as challenges is a better way of have putting it in a in such a way that you can handle it. Yeah, I

Brian Smith: 1:09:01

think that this this venue, as my friend Kyle calls this this location that we're in, is why so it goes back to we said near the very beginning, we have these extremes, we come in to experience two extremes. We, we could have chosen the cushy life, we could have chosen the places didn't have this. But we chose this for a reason. Right.

David Gaggin: 1:09:22

And, and it's a it's a way to evolve faster. And if you know what, but it's a difficult way. And but it's our choice. And and, and because it's our choice we can we can deal with it. Because we're capable of it. We don't we're not we never accept anything. We're never given anything that we can't do. Yeah,

Brian Smith: 1:09:48

I think that point of view is so empowering. Because people might hear it at first and it might feel like fatalistic or you know, whatever I but it actually I think it's extremely empowering. It's like it's you said but puts the power back in our hands understanding that we are, we are these amazing, eternal beings. And you talked earlier about, you know, the fear of death, which I don't have at all anymore. And when I when I talk to people that that are still dealing with that, and especially at my age, you know, I'm in my early 60s now. It's like, that's inevitable, fearing that is not doing you any favors. So you might asleep might as well embrace it, and, and if you think about living forever in His body, that would be torment. That would be horrible. But

David Gaggin: 1:10:39

it would you need it, you need it, you know, it's you look at you look at the criminals and, and the terrorists and such like that a lot of them die young. And they die young, I think because the soul is saying, you know, we're going down a wrong path here. You know, we need to, we need to reboot. And, you know, so we need to get there, get this, get our psychology pointed in a different direction. And that's what that does for us. It allows us to go back learn what our mistakes and start a fresh start anew. And so, death is, you know, it's it's, you know, it's the death is hard on the people that are left behind. That's that's the that's the tough part. But but for the actual person when you die, that piece of cake. I mean, death can be hard, you know, the dying process, right? But death itself is a piece of cake and other no pain involved in that. Now your memory comes back here, you know, you're all set and you're happy and you're doing good things.

Brian Smith: 1:11:42

Absolutely. Well, David, we're at we're at our time, it's actually 1111 here. It's been great getting to know you and I love this conversation. tell people how they remember mentioned the name of the book again, but tell people how they can get in touch with you also. Okay,

David Gaggin: 1:11:59

it's our eternal existence by David Gagan. That's GA GG I am getting and that's a metaphysical perspective of reality. You can go to my website, which is David gagan.com. And you can that you can read about the book you can place you can hit edit and takes you right to Amazon. You could buy it at Amazon or Barnes and Noble and and then also I live in Southern Florida near Fort Myers and I have a Sanibel metaphysical Meetup group that if you're, it's easy to get in touch with and it's free. I pay for it all. And we get together and talk about these type of things and anything you want to talk about in the way of metaphysical stuff. We I'd love to have any buddies in the area. Come come by.

Brian Smith: 1:12:52

I love it. I love what you're doing. I love this conversation. I like bringing these worlds together. So thank you so much for being here today.

David Gaggin: 1:12:58

Thank you for having me, Brian. I really appreciate it. It's great fun.