Dolls and Diversity: An Insightful Conversation with the American Black Beauty Doll Association

Listen at www.inthedollworld.com     Karen  Oyekanmi, the founder of the American Black Beauty Doll Association, opens up the conversation as she shares the inspiration behind her quest to fill the market gap for beautiful black dolls and to provide positive representation for children of color - a mission that still holds significant relevance almost 40 years later, as they celebrate their upcoming annual Festival of Black Doll Show and Sale, Nov 4th 2023.

As we chat with this panel of remarkable women - Karen Oyekanmi, Kynisha Daisy Decre, Cheryl Buckley, Lillian Black, Adwoa Cooper, and Stacelina Monique - we uncover the crucial role of dolls in reflecting and celebrating the diverse world we live in.   Our panel of esteemed guests, wear many hats - they are doll makers, authors, interior designers, balloon artists, crocheters, and Barbie repainters.

We navigate the rich and multifaceted world of doll making, a journey that transcends the creation of children's playthings to become a profound medium of art and cultural expression and as the conversation evolves, we also get the perspective of each guest on the importance about their decision to join the American Black Beauty Doll Association, as well as create and attend the Festival of Black Dolls Show and Sale, an event that has always been about educating and representation, with many of the years of the Festival showcasing themes from Egypt to Black Marriage.

So, join us for this enlightening conversation and discover the art, the expression, and the cultural significance behind the world of doll making and the importance of being a member of the American Black Beauty Doll Association.
 
To see more about the women who are featured today, as well as vendors at the upcoming Festival of Black Dolls Show and Sale:    ABBDA 2023 Vendors

@KarenOyekanmi
Kissing Kousins Dolls
Www.weloveblackdolls.com

Stacy
@Stacelinamonique
https://www.etsy.com/shop/StacelinaMonique

Lillian Black
Lillian’s Dolls & Things
Www.weloveblackdolls.com

Adwoa Cooper
@adwoadesign
www.AdwoaDesign.com
https://www.etsy.com/shop/AdwoaDesign

Kynisha Ducre
@Daisytheclown
www.clowninaround.net

Chapters

• 0:02 Black Beauty Doll Association
• 15:40 Black Beauty Doll Association and Members
• 29:26 The Importance of Black Doll Representation
• 35:32 The Importance of Representation in Dolls
• 39:20 Importance of Representation in Black Dolls

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Hello everybody and welcome to In the Dawn Wall. I'm your host, jojette Tell, and, as always, I'm excited to have you join me for a new episode of the show. I'm even more excited because, as you can see, I have six beautiful women here on the show today, and so, you know, be patient with me, people, be patient with me. Okay, we have members and founding members and legacy members of the American Black Beauty Doll Association, also known as the American Black Beauty Doll Artist, and they are hosting a beautiful festival that they do every year, called the Festival of Black Dolls Show and Sale on November 4th, and I'm so excited to be able to talk to them about their journey, why they started the foundation, why people are members of the foundation, and also a little bit about each one of their journeys into doll making, a doll collecting and just the doll in our community in general. So again, welcome everybody to In the Dawn World. I'm gonna start with some small introductions from everybody. So first we have Karen Oyakami. She is the founder of American Black Doll Beauty Association. She is also the CEO of Kissing Cousins Doll and she is also a commercial artist, illustrator, which she received her degree in 1981. And her and her sister have studied doll making and doll sculpting. In 1983, they started a company known as K&K and she has sold her dolls in the United States and abroad and specializes in one of her kind dolls. We also have Kanisha Daisy Decree. She is a member of the American Black Beauty Doll Association and also known on social media as Daisy the Clown. Not only is she an amazing clown, she is also an author, interior designer and a phenomenal balloon artist, and she has traveled around the world sharing her amazing Daisy the Clown with so many children in other countries. Then we have Cheryl Buckley. He was also a founder of the ABBDA. She is also the secretary and the owner of Buck's Doll House. Cheryl is not only a mother, but she's a grandmother and she started her doll making career, creating dolls for her children. She attended a Black Doll Show and decided she wanted to try her hand at porcelain doll making and, needless to say, she's become phenomenal at it because she is now the association's go-to person for all porcelain techniques. That is amazing. That's pretty cool. I love that.

Speaker 1: 2:35

Then we have Lillian Black, who is a legacy member. She is also the owner of Lillian's Dolls and Things and I did hear that she just celebrated her 90th birthday, so that's pretty amazing. I'm so excited. That's so beautiful. She started her doll making journey in 1995 as a stress-reducing hobby. She attended classes and quickly became addicted, which we know. When you create the house, you make dolls, you buy dolls, you just become addicted. That's just how it goes. She traveled to England to attend the national events and also she just has found the experience of doll making to be a great stress reliever.

Speaker 1: 3:15

Then we have Adwa Cooper. She is also a member and she is also known on social media as Adwa Designs. She's an award-winning crochet doll artist and she makes crochet dolls with personality. Her passion inspired her to open her own Etsy store and a website where she shares her unique crochet creations. She really competes annually at the California State Fair and she came in first place and was awarded Blue Ribbon for her work. I'm so excited. That is beautiful, beautiful work. You ladies are amazing.

Speaker 1: 3:47

And last but definitely not least, we have Stacey. She is not only a member of American Black Beauty Doll Association, she also is the vice president and also known through social media as Stacey and Lena Monique Stacey and her daughter Alicia. They create relatable cultural awareness through Barbie dolls. She started at a very early age by experimenting with paper dolls and moved up to Barbie repaints, which she does amazingly well re-routes and restyling. She turns them into modern day fashions. Thank you so much, ladies, for being on In the Doll World. I'm so excited to have all of you here. So I'm going to ask Karen the first question. What I'd like to know from you, karen, this is an amazing association. You've had it for many, many years, so I really wanted you to share a little bit about your inspiration behind founding the American Black Beauty Doll Association and how has it evolved over the years.

Speaker 2: 4:43

Well, I got interested in starting this organization because of the lack of black dolls on the market and I had my daughter in 1982 and in 1983, I couldn't find dolls that represented her and I was teaching doll making at the Allen Temple Arms in Oakland, california. And that's how I met Cheryl Buckley and Grace Broda some other of our founding members, in Florence, maine, and we decided let's do it ourselves, let's start making beautiful black dolls to represent our children and children of color and to lift their self-esteem and see themselves reflected positively in dolls. And that's how we got started making dolls for children to play with and also as teaching tools. And that was the inspiration of starting American Black Beauty Doll Association in 1984.

Speaker 1: 5:48

1984. Wow, that's been a long time.

Speaker 3: 5:51

Yes, that's been running.

Speaker 1: 5:53

It really has been the other thing. One really quick question then I'm going to bounce over to Kanisha because I know she is doing her Daisy Declown thing and I don't want to mess with that. But one thing I did want to ask you, karen, was that in 1984, it's so needed then and you still see how much is needed now. Are you surprised at how much is still needed?

Speaker 2: 6:17

Yes, I am, and it just shows that the work probably will never be done. We need to keep going with this and that's why I'm so excited to have Ottawa and Stacy and Kanisha and the young fresh blood artists to keep this going, because we've been at this the founders a long time and the work is still so much needed. There's so many young people that still don't know who they are and don't see themselves reflected, are they get lost in their phone. We want to pull them back to create something and also be creative through our work and involve young people in it with workshops and these festivals, and we want to see it keep going. We've been doing this for almost 40 years and we're not done.

Speaker 1: 7:15

We're not done. Definitely, that's definitely true. We are definitely not done. Certainly a test of that. So, kanisha, how are you today?

Speaker 4: 7:26

I am absolutely amazing. Oh, that's great.

Speaker 1: 7:29

I see that you are hard at work there, so I wanted to ask you a question. Well, first I want to just share a little bit about yourself how you got started in doing and becoming a clown, because you are so versatile, with so many different amazing work, that you have not just an author, you are also interior designer. So how did clowns become something that you thought was really important to showcase, and how does that work actually intersect with the American Black Beauty Doll Association?

Speaker 4: 7:58

Absolutely so. I was born and raised in New Orleans and I had a theater class. He taught us how to be clowns. So from there I was performing for kids' tent. Ok, of course there's an inspection going on now. I was performing at the kids' tent of the Jazz Inheritance Festival, Fast forward.

Speaker 4: 8:18

I have a psychology degree and an interior design degree, but I always volunteered and from a mental health standpoint I know kids wanted to hug. They had teddy bears, they had dolls, they would talk to the dolls, they would have imaginary friends. So I love dolls, so kids can actually let the dolls copy them like what they're wearing. So I particularly like 18 inch dolls so they can match their dolls or they can then feel like they're important to the dolls. Somebody cares about them and I know my mom told me stories of running around to four stores to try and find a cabbage patch. So then when that grew up, to other dolls.

Speaker 4: 8:57

But it really is the art of play with you. So in a psychology setting I can use a doll to explain how are you feeling or if there was something inappropriate that happened, they can point to where it happened. So it was kind of giving a voice to the voice list from a psychological standpoint. And then I got so inspired with clothing and hair to keep up, because kids wanted to see we didn't have blonde hair, we have short, curly country hair. So, with the customizations that some of the other team members do, I just wanted to have something unique on and then follow the journey. You don't have to fit into a mold that you see, you can create it yourself, Almost like the cliche that says don't wait to be invited to the table, build your own table or start gathering your clothes, so it's almost like that with dolls.

Speaker 4: 9:42

So if I didn't see it, okay, how can I dye her skin, or how can. I make her hair or put little curly rainbows in it, because that's something I like, so you don't have to fit inside the box.

Speaker 1: 9:52

Do you introduce dolls in your clown sketches?

Speaker 4: 9:56

Yes, when I am doing more hospital visits, because I can't bring balloons because of latex. But in a hospital setting or a psychological setting, yes. But I have a friend like a little me. I can do a magic trick and the doll is dressed just like me and of course I disappear and what's left is the doll, dressed just like me, so of course they think I disappeared. So I do use dolls in my clown shows from time to time and it's easy to pack. So I'm grateful. As a clown. I've been at six continents in more than 35 countries clowning and most recently we've patched atoms about six weeks ago. But dolls are absolutely with me wherever I go.

Speaker 1: 10:36

That's very cool, that's great. I love it. I love that. So you've been around the world doing this and you do it at the Festival of Black Dolls show as well. Do you see a difference of how the children respond to you when you're at the Festival of Black Dolls as opposed to around the world, or do they react the same way?

Speaker 4: 10:56

It's a permission to have fun. So many kids are used to going to the store and their parents saying don't touch that, don't touch that With me. They're kind of giving them a high five like, ooh, look, how pretty her hair is, it's just like. So it gives them a permission that they don't have to be on guard, they don't have to sit on their hand. But then they can say I'll notice different details in them, like they, my bow tie, are the color of their hair. So they can start saying ways that they are unique, so they can start pulling that out inside of them. So at the Dolls show they're like oh wait, there's a doll, that's a clown. Or wait, there's a girl, that's a clown. Wait, there's a black girl, that's a clown. You have that. So you don't have to look like Ronald or anyone else. You can be your own creative self. And that's what the dolls reflect in all of the different types from in some of the older ladies.

Speaker 4: 11:44

It's not just kids. They didn't have these dolls, like Miss Karen was saying, when they were growing up. They had Kenya and they had one other one I can't think of her name. So now to see this evolution of what they wish they had. They're buying for grandkids Kids they don't even grandkids that don't even have yet neighbors to make sure it's all inclusive and diverse, for even some of their neighbors who are not African-American, they're still introducing so kids can get used to. Let me have a brown skin doll too, so it's for everybody and I'm grateful for being a part of the group. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:17

I was just going to ask you too, like what drew you into the group? Right, you know what drew you becoming part of, you know, becoming a member of the American Blank Beauty Doll Association.

Speaker 4: 12:28

It's the beauty, like African-American in tones are so unique from one side to the other, like I'm proud to see, and you know, coffee with no cream. You know, in the dolls, like, no, like your complexion is absolutely beautiful. Mine is too. So when you get all of these different conflections, our art forms, just like the crochet, the porcelain, the Barbie, the articulated, so all of those different details, it just attracted me, like different ways we can communicate beauty, whether it's a small doll, big doll, baby doll, so little girls can see the beauty in themselves.

Speaker 1: 13:06

Okay, great. Well, thank you so much. I know you are doubted. You're doing your work and sharing your beautiful days in the clown with so many people around. I want to thank you so much for being here in the doll world with us here to share why it's important for people to have black dolls and have dolls represented and the work that you do out there. So thank you so much. Can you just quickly tell everybody where they could find you at?

Speaker 4: 13:29

Sure, I'm Daisy the Clown on Instagram and YouTube, but if you go to Instagram there's a link treat and it'll show you everywhere. You can probably so if you start at Instagram and Daisy the Clown, but who knows, I might be in a city near you.

Speaker 1: 13:45

And you'll be at the Festival of Black Dolls, so we're excited about it.

Speaker 4: 13:47

Absolutely, you won't miss me. I'll say that you won't miss me. Very good thank you so much, Disha. Thank you, honored.

Speaker 1: 13:54

Thank you for joining us. I appreciate it. Karen, I want to talk to you because I know you were talking about your inspiration and finding that, but as a person who creates dolls and make doll sculptures, I think for me it's like when I'm doing the show. I realized that there's so many people who do dolls. But one of the things that I find that lacks in the doll community is black people doing vinyl dolls. Now, I know it's very expensive and very pricey to do. What made you decide to do the types of dolls that you do, especially one of a kind?

Speaker 2: 14:32

Well, I really love. Well, my first lesson was doing children dolls also children and I love working from photographs and I did start off with porcelain in 1980, but I've graduated on to felt press felt, which is a technique that started in the 1920s and 30s with the Lindsay, and I love doing that because I can still sculpt and then I just press the felt over and it's like painting on a canvas and just being able to be specific and original and really use that face as a canvas to capture the essence of the person. And I'm doing, I enjoy that a lot. I love vinyl dolls but I have never been able to get into that area. But I love doing felt and porcelain. That's my area expertise. That's your area expertise okay, very cool.

Speaker 1: 15:40

How do you go about finding the people who want to be part of the American Black Beauty Doll Association? Do you look for people and then say I would like to invite you to be members, or do they generally find you?

Speaker 2: 15:52

They generally find us, and then we get a lot of people that come to the show and express the interest, and now that we're more out there, especially being on Instagram and Facebook, we get more inquiries and so we have a interview process and we're able to really see where their interests lie and if our organization would be the fit that they're looking for. So that's how we mainly they come to us.

Speaker 1: 16:24

I'm not excited about that. Okay, very nice, very nice. I didn't know, it was an interview process.

Speaker 4: 16:30

I think that's pretty neat.

Speaker 1: 16:31

Yeah, you want to make sure that the people that you are bringing on into your organization and association make the dolls that you want to see portrayed. I think that's really important too is to be able to keep that not just that beauty, but the culture of African American dolls alive.

Speaker 2: 16:51

Yes, and then they understand what we're about and that we inspire them. They can learn more about who they are as African Americans through art, from our experience, and then they also bring a lot to the table. So we're excited when we get new members that really can excel in the organization, like what we have now.

Speaker 1: 17:13

Yay, that's what you have, beautiful Cheryl. Hi, cheryl, how are you? I'm good, I'm good, so I know that you're a founder as well and you're also the secretary, but you're starting creating dolls for your children. How did it evolve into becoming more than creating dolls just for your children and for other children as well?

Speaker 7: 17:33

I think it was mainly that. Well, my kids always had the dolls that I created for them, and they were mainly cloth dolls, and other children did like to play with them. I gave quite a few away as birthday gifts, but the parents wanted to save it instead of letting the child play with it, and that I didn't like. But, and I found that my boys were just as interested in playing with those dolls. They would change their clothes, of course, because they wore clothes on their dolls, and as soon as the girls got a new doll, they would take out their old one and do what they wanted to do with them. But as I came up, it just was the white dolls with black coloring on their faces, and so in my situation, which I mostly was doing, porcelain dolls.

Speaker 7: 18:41

I would look for the molds that I could translate them into black dolls. And I come to find out that most of the original antique dolls, their models, were actually mixed children that were mixed with African in European, because they were beautiful, wow, and they would make their dolls from their molds, from those children, and so it wasn't too hard to find molds, especially in the antique design that also had our African features. But the only thing about the porcelain the children have to be very careful with that.

Speaker 1: 19:30

Yes. Those are not play dolls right. No they're not. No, they're definitely not play dolls. How did you become a founding member? What was that journey?

Speaker 7: 19:42

I went to a doll show and that was before I actually got into the porcelain and Karen was there, and so she invited me to Allen Temple, because where I was taking lessons it was from a white lady and my first actual doll I made was the white doll. And Karen introduced me into the black slip that she was using at the time, and so I graduated from that to mix in my own slip, because they only had one color black slip, and I got to mix in my own.

Speaker 1: 20:26

And so yeah, well, I hope, because let me ask you this skirt, because not everybody may know what that means. What is a slip? Exactly what is that?

Speaker 7: 20:34

The liquid form of the porcelain.

Speaker 1: 20:37

Okay, all right. Yes, did you find challenges?

Speaker 7: 20:40

working with porcelain. The challenges I had working with porcelain is that you had to pay at the time for someone else to pour the mold for you, so that you bought it in a greenware state, and then you also needed a kiln to do your fire, and so that inspired me to get my own molds and my own kiln. So I have quite a big clutch in the molds now and some of them are getting a little bit too heavy for me now, but I still have them. But those were the main challenges getting the paints, the paints to blend in with the coloring that you had on the doll.

Speaker 1: 21:30

I heard that coloring has always been a challenge. That's been one of the challenges when people make porcelain dolls or even silicone dolls or anything like that. It's always the coloring that you know. That's right. Does the coloring course? More money, I had heard, for some ways, I think, for vinyl models, I do believe.

Speaker 7: 21:47

It was just getting the right color and you always mixed your colorings so you could get the regular coloring, but it's the way you mix them. And then they started mixing them. They started making them in the different brown tones and I think that's what encouraged them to make them in the different brown tones.

Speaker 1: 22:10

Okay, well, thank you so much. We will come back to you I appreciate you sharing your joining with us. Miss Lillian, how are you?

Speaker 3: 22:18

I'm good, thank you for asking.

Speaker 1: 22:21

Oh, I'm good too. And happy belated birthday. That's beautiful. Thank you, you're so welcome. So I know you're a legacy member of the American Black Beauty Doll Association. What does a legacy member mean? What does it mean to you being a legacy member?

Speaker 3: 22:37

For me it's just a pleasure to be working with these ladies who are much younger than I am, but I'm still, you know, interested in doing dolls. That's my passion At my age. You can imagine and I have a daughter and two sons that they didn't have any dolls of color. When I wanted my daughter to have a doll, her grandmother gave her a doll, one of these walking dolls, and she was white and it frightened Tracy, so she kept it in the closet. She never brought it out to play. She never brought it out.

Speaker 3: 23:16

Oh, wow, yeah, correct, and so I thought that really is very interesting. It frightened her for her to see a doll half her size and she doesn't want to play with her, and that, you know, was surprising to me. But yet it wasn't, because all of her friends were of mixed. We lived in an area where there was, you know, all people of color, and so she was used to being around all people of color, yet she still didn't want this doll to be on her bed. It stayed in her closet. But other than that, I just like being doing dolls. You like doing dolls, right? And now that I'm getting older and older and older, I'm wanting to do dolls that Karen does the soft dolls.

Speaker 1: 24:08

Right, right, and what inspired you to become a member of the American Black Beauty Doll Association no-transcript.

Speaker 3: 24:16

I had, first of all, I'm a retired public health nurse. Well, a nurse period and I was on my job and I passed this little doll cottage and it had all these dolls in the window and I said, oh, and there was even a doll of color in the window and I said, oh, I must check that out when I come back from my interview with this with this whole nurse situation. And indeed I did. And it was white-owned. And the woman said, oh, no, you can join a class when we're getting ready to have our new class on this coming weekend.

Speaker 3: 24:56

Well, that just sat with me and I said, but what about dolls of color? I don't see that many. And she said, listen, they're all white and what we do is just add color to it. Right? And I said, ok, well, that'll work. And that's how I got started doing porcelain dolls, because I thought, oh, now I could get a doll for my daughter that really looks like her color-wise. And so that was my beginning in doing porcelain dolls, and I really like the expressions. Most of my dolls are of children, some are adults, boys and girls, all ages, from infants to models. So I really enjoy that.

Speaker 1: 25:45

Yeah, and you said it was a stress reliever for you.

Speaker 3: 25:47

But you're getting ready to sand the doll when it comes out of the kiln. Just using your own hands or using stocking, sanding the seams down is just so relaxing, just so relaxing yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:03

Thank you so much for sharing your journey. I appreciate that and we are going to talk to Ms Adwa. How are you today? I'm well. Can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you, wonderfully. Thank you so much. I know you have amazing crochet dolls. Well, you're an award-winning crochet doll artist, so I know that they're amazing. They are beautiful. I really have seen your work on many, many occasions, so why don't you just share a little bit more about your journey and how you started crocheting dolls? And also, I just want to know how do you feel that crochet dolls kind of fits in with being a member of the American Black Beauty Doll Association?

Speaker 5: 26:42

Well, starting with that, I like the fact that it kind of doesn't fit in, because one thing that was kind of discouraging about doing this as a business was the fact that there were in my circle so many crochet doll artists and I thought where am I going to fit in? So it's just inspiring to see so many different mediums used, and for me to be the only one that does it the way I do it it's like yay, so that was a joy. With that said, though, this has been, this journey has just been amazing. Like Miss Lilly, and I'm a nurse as well, and I was working one day and being nosy on a lunch break and there was a group of therapists and just having their lunch, but they were all doing different forms of needle craft and I thought, you know? And I went in and I noticed two ladies knitting and crocheting and I sat with them. They showed me the fundamentals and then it just took off from there. But, like most beginning stitchers, I made hats and scarves for everybody and they got sick of it and they said please, do something else, please. You know, we have enough. And that's how I got into doll making.

Speaker 5: 28:06

I saw a doll. I think it was made of quest love the drummer on the Jimmy Kimmel show. I liked it, but I kind of thought, well, who made this? And it sent me down this rabbit hole and I realized the artist was not African American, she wasn't a woman of color Nothing against that but for my eyes, looking at this doll, I felt it was representative of his true appearance. And then that sent me down another rabbit hole, looking at different textures of yarn to match his actual hair texture, his true skin tone and undertones. You know we have a lot more to us than just brown, you know. So that's what got me into doll making. I'm self taught, I read a lot of books, I use the University of YouTube and it just evolved. And where I'm at now, and I love it and I can't wait to retire and do this full time because work gets in my way, I have dolls to make, I have trips to take. You know, we have events to do.

Speaker 1: 29:18

So, yeah, it's a blessing. Work does get in your way when you are actually creative and creative. It really does. So why did you feel it was important for you to become a member of the American Black Beauty Doll Association? Why was that something that you think you know, something that you felt that you needed to do?

Speaker 5: 29:35

It was kind of meant to happen and it was kind of what's that word? Like serendipity happened and that's how I got here. I was doing a doll. Well, it was a craft fair in Jack London Square and I loved doing that show, just because the vibe you know, you're in Oakland, it's beautiful.

Speaker 5: 29:56

And I remember a patron came up to my table and she said why aren't you with the Black Doll Association? And I'm like, what Black Doll Association? So she couldn't give me any information. I figured, oh, I'll look it up. I tried and I tried and I tried. I didn't find anything. And you know, life died in the way, right. And then, stacy, I think you either sent me a, you put a comment or you sent me a message on Instagram and I thought this is what I've been looking for. She just said, hey, we're doing a show, would you be interested? And I'm like, of course. So I did the show. And then I found out about the application process and I applied and I interviewed and I made the pet and I was so happy and that's just kind of how it happened.

Speaker 1: 30:47

That's so cool. So have you been showcasing your dolls at the Festival of Black Dolls, and how long have you been doing that Since? You became a member.

Speaker 5: 30:55

This will be my second show.

Speaker 1: 30:56

So last year was my first one. Okay, beautiful, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that, ms Stacy.

Speaker 6: 31:05

Yes, hi Georgia. How are you today? I'm doing good. How are you?

Speaker 1: 31:10

I'm doing good. I'm excited to talk with you as well. I'm excited to talk to all of you because I, you know we have wow. Just having all you women here to me is so. It's just so powerful because there's so many different types of dolls that you create. Not only that, you know, you create an association. I think that is so important to be part of. I mean, it's just if you're a black doll artist, it's just important to be a part of what you do. You know, because still needed and you know we had that conversation previously the fact that it's just a continuation of the things that are still needed in this world. Having black dolls represent who we are. Stacy, you do that well. You repaint, you do redesigns. They're amazing. So how did that did that start for you? I know you were playing with dolls at a young age, but how did you decide or think about redesigning and telling a new story with, you know, with older dolls, with dolls that never really represented us?

Speaker 6: 32:14

To start off, my niece was born. She was the first daughter in the family, the first girl in the family, so my sister had her and I wanted her to be that Barbie for me. So I created a whole line of Barbie dolls for her, in every color dress you could imagine, but the big tool dresses and everything. So she had a shelf and we displayed all the dolls that I made for her. So 30 years later now she's 30, and I've been in this doll world seen for over 10 years now. It evolved and now I see, you know, we are glamorous, we're beautiful, and I would like to showcase that in my doll making. As far as the Barbies are concerned, the Barbie is fabulous, so let's make the African-American Barbies fabulous, you know, let's make her just as gorgeous as the other dolls you see online. So that's where I started with that mission as far as making the dolls glamorous.

Speaker 1: 33:18

Right. I love how you said that, though you know, let's make the Black Barbie dolls more, just as glamorous. And the fact that you actually do that and you showcase the Black Barbies in all their glory, you know, in all the things that we can do as people, I think that's great. The way you restyle them is just amazing. So I know you. I do know you work with your daughter. So how do you combine skills together, right? And your perspective about dolls, because she's younger than you, right? How does that contribute to what you create together?

Speaker 6: 33:48

Well, for one, she has that youthful idea and thoughts that she always bring to me. Mom, that's too old, Mom, we're doing this. Mom, the songs are outdated. You need to put more trendy songs on your social media. So she gives me a lot of good advice. And also, as far as designing, I would like to show you one of my dolls here. She is going to be Miss Brooklyn at the Doll Show. Nice, she's gorgeous. Yes, so she's going to be one of my dolls. And if you notice her hair, my daughter was telling me mom, make sure she has really, really tight coils, Make sure her hair is really tight and curly. So, of course, she was a doll that came with straight hair and I really fixed her up. And she's Miss Oakland for the Doll Show. So I'm working on different.

Speaker 6: 34:40

And then I went back to my original big dress that my niece all the big dresses that my niece would have and I went back to my roots so I created a couple of dolls just like that and let me show you one more. This is the Barbie Now. She's Miss Fabulous Barbie, oh, pretty Handbags, and she has the big tool dress Again, I think you see half. So I kind of went back to the roots. I said, okay, let me go back to the beginning and let's get these big dresses out. And the movie came out. So Barbie is glamorous. So of course I have to make some big, beautiful, glamorous dolls, and plus pink, okay, everything is extravagant, and pink, yeah, extravagant.

Speaker 1: 35:29

Yes, definitely, that's definitely. I know you're the vice president of the American Blank Beauty Doll Association. What made you want to join this association?

Speaker 6: 35:38

Been doing their shows for a long time and when you have opinions you just can't bring up an opinion oh, you guys should do this or you guys should do that. If you want to make a difference, you have to join the group to make a difference and then voice your opinion and give them your reasons. Why is certain things that you think should change a little bit? So I jumped on board and I've been a member now for what? Close to eight years, and I just love the ladies. I love how we bounce off of each other's ideas, how I learned from them. They have just really taught me a lot. And so, moving forward as far as being vice president, I really enjoy that because my connection in the doll world allows me to reach out, to like you and reach out to the people that maybe they don't know about and bring it to the doll group and we can just really grow and learn and just get to know different artists.

Speaker 1: 36:37

When you guys are so beautiful, I'm getting emotional. Okay, hold on. Wow, this has never happened to me before. Okay.

Speaker 5: 36:53

You're gonna make me cry.

Speaker 2: 36:56

Oh, we appreciate you. This is amazing and you're amazing. Thank you for having us like this.

Speaker 1: 37:03

You're welcome.

Speaker 1: 37:04

Wow, that's okay.

Speaker 1: 37:06

I'm getting emotional because I just see the talent and the passion and the beauty of what you guys do, not just as an association but individually too, and the love that you have for creating dolls that represent different facets of who we are, in different genres and different, you know, from porcelain to crochet, to repainting, redesigning and that's one of the things that I really wanted to be able to do with this show was be able to bring people on and let people know that they all have a space in the community and that they all, you know, the spaces that they create, you know, gives them a voice, and I think you guys do that so well and just phenomenally, you know.

Speaker 1: 37:51

I just wanna thank you for all your work that you've been doing out there to share how important it is for black dolls to be seen and represented and to be there in a space. So I'm gonna ask each one of your questions and what I wanna know is how do you believe that representation of black dolls impacts self-esteem and cultural identity of young children, especially from those in black communities?

Speaker 6: 38:18

I wanna start off first with that. It's real important that black little girls see themselves, not just a black child that doesn't comb their hair or whatever the stereotypes may be. They need to see that even if we don't comb our hair, we're still beautiful. Our hair is in the texture that we don't have to comb it every day. It's just. That's our beauty behind us. So it's important for children to be able to afford our dolls for one. Like at our doll show, we allow the prices to be affordable for the children who want these beautiful dolls that represent them. Mom, this doll is so beautiful but you know we can't afford her. No, yes, you can, you could afford her. She's marketed a price at our festival that everybody will be able to afford a beautiful doll that represents them, and it is important for them to see that and feel just as beautiful as the doll that they have.

Speaker 1: 39:15

True, thank you, anybody else who wanted to pose that question to everybody?

Speaker 5: 39:20

I'd like to add that the whole representation mattering it wasn't worded that way to me as a child, but that was just ingrained in me. My father did not allow me to have any dolls that did not look like me. He and my mom used to kind of get into it about that, because I'd get a lot of gifts and I'd see a lot of dolls disappear that didn't look like me and I learned I would have to wait because in the early 80s if you could find one, it was a process. You had to order it and you had to wait.

Speaker 5: 39:55

And as a child I thought my dad was so mean. I was like daddy, why are you so mean? Why don't you want me to have dolls? But I didn't realize what he was teaching me. That has been with me throughout life. When I was the only black nurse in the room, I still had my own self-worth. When I couldn't style my hair like some of the instructors would tell me to, it didn't make me feel bad, it was very unapologetic. I said this is what you're gonna get. And I truly believe if my parents didn't instill that in me, I wouldn't have been strong enough to do that and I would have fell into feeling less than.

Speaker 5: 40:33

So it's so important. I was recently asked why I even bother competing at the fair Because, like I believe Stacy mentioned, you make your own seat at the table when no one invites you to it. You make your own and just to be at these events and to see the reactions to the dolls, they're so needed, it's so needed and the kids need to see that. And it's priceless hearing the children say that doll looks like me. It's just priceless and so needed.

Speaker 1: 41:06

That's so true, and adults need it too.

Speaker 4: 41:08

Trust me, don't think we don't need it, we do need it.

Speaker 1: 41:13

Some of us, like you said, have different versions of they're not feeling wanted because they weren't represented. Yes, and a lot of people don't. Sometimes people can say, well, I don't see that represented, I'm gonna go and make that, but not everybody's like that, and so a lot of times they don't see it represented and it really changes how they see themselves in life. And so, yeah, I'm very excited that you won blue ribbons for what it is that you do, because you were supposed to be at the fair regardless, you know.

Speaker 5: 41:46

You're supposed to be there.

Speaker 1: 41:47

You're supposed to be there. Yes, anybody else wanna share why they believe representation of black dolls impact self-esteem and, you know, mostly people in the black communities, I think and that's one thing I love about your show too, because it is in a community where people have access to it, you know, and it's needed. They need to see people who are in the dark community creating dolls that look like them and a place that they can afford and also something that they feel is part of their community as well.

Speaker 7: 42:16

I'd like to say that through some of the antique dolls, and especially with research and history, that children have learned that they were blacks in society and not just in the ghettos, that blacks dressed well and they were noble, and that it has caused some of them to really research and found out how no people that we were, as in the United States, we've been all taught that we came from slaves and we were the underdog, and that all the other nationalities also look down on us and it's brought out in research. You know that we are worthy people. Yes, so true.

Speaker 2: 43:15

So true. If I could add to that what Sister Cheryl was saying, it brought to mind when we started back in the late 80s and 90s, we had a theme for each show. It was to teach. We had where we made Egyptian dolls black Egyptian when they were showing Egyptians as being all white, we let you know that was on the continent of Africa. We were pharaohs and queens and so we had our Egyptian dolls that we made. And then we had the beauty of black marriage. We did a whole show with weddings and beautiful dolls and we had pictures of ourselves and our families.

Speaker 2: 43:58

So each year we would have a theme to educate and to make you feel good from the inside out and show the importance of the black family and the reflection of. We are beautiful people, you know, and when we come from kings and queens, we have been doing that and we haven't wavered since we started that. It's not just a show, it is an experience, it's an education and it shows black artists who are so talented that you don't get to see from all over the country. We're here and we're making it and it's about you. So I just wanted to add that. Thank you, sister Cheryl, for bringing that back to mind. You know we teach and that feels so desperately needed.

Speaker 1: 44:45

Yes, teach and educate. That's so important because they need to see that, like you said, we don't just come from one place. We come from many places and we do many things and we are powerful and we are, you know, we are knowledgeable and intelligent and we are entrepreneurs and we're doll artists and we do many things that are important, and I think that it's important for everybody to see that that's who we are.

Speaker 3: 45:10

I want to add to that that also it's important that the children, when they go to these different functions where dolls are seen, that they see dolls of all colors, because slowly but surely racism is still very much alive and functioning and the more that you can bring to the populace that you're wrong in denying rights of individuals, the children can spot this immediately and they don't wanna give children that intelligence that they realize what they're seeing is not what they're being told. So I just wanted to add that also that it's important to bring all colors into doll making.

Speaker 1: 45:58

Yes, it is, it really, it truly is.

Speaker 1: 46:00

I guess.

Speaker 1: 46:01

For me, being a doll maker myself, I know when I started out we started out in 1999 and 2000 making big, beautiful dolls there were very few people making black dolls, especially in the space that we were in in the viral fashion doll world, and it was hard finding people for us to have mentors because they just weren't out there.

Speaker 1: 46:23

And so I think something that you have created with the American Black Beauty Doll Association and also the Festival of Black Dolls shows. I think it is important, because when people need mentors, people need people to go to and to look up to, that are in certain spaces that they wanna get involved in. They don't have far to look anymore, and that's the beautiful thing. I just wanna honor all of you for being members and founding members and legacy members to help grow what it is that you guys started so many, many years ago, and I just wanna say thank you to all of you. I really do, because what you bring to the table is just beautiful and powerful, and I wanna say thank you so much for being in the doll world to share that with us. Thank you for having us.

Speaker 6: 47:10

And I would like to add we just want everyone to come out to the Festival of Black Dolls show and sell. We have an amazing sale going on in our dolly boutique. We have all the dolls that were left over from the Hollywood Walk of Dolls discounted at an unbelievable price. You need to come on out, you need to buy a raffle ticket to win this beautiful made Jameson cuts them doll that we have.

Speaker 6: 47:35

All of our raffle dolls during the years have been wonderful. So there's gonna be food, music, just vendors in our guest speaker, bukola Samati, come out. She invented the first doll that can cold and she is a wonderful and beautiful, smart individual that everyone needs to come out and meet and hear her story. So we just wanna welcome everyone with open arms. Come out and enjoy yourself and have a good time at the Festival of Black Dolls. Show and sell.

Speaker 1: 48:08

That is great. Yes, Kola is amazing and she was on the show. She was on one of the shows in the doll world. She's her doll is amazing, and where can people find out about the Festival of Black Dolls show and also about the American Black Beauty Doll Association?

Speaker 6: 48:24

You can find us at wwwweloveblackdollscom. It also on Facebook and on Instagram. Very good.

Speaker 1: 48:34

Thank you so much, lady, and I'll have all your information. Everybody who has a shop or store will be included in the description of the show, so everybody can find out where everybody wants to come and look at your dolls. But please make sure you go to their website so you can learn about the Festival of Black Dolls show and that's coming up in November 4th. So I'm excited that you guys join me. Thank you guys so much for having me. I had a wonderful time. I got a little emotional, but I appreciate it. Love you, thank you.

Speaker 6: 49:04

And the beautiful girls are amazing. Yes, thank you.

Speaker 1: 49:08

Thank you guys, thank you.

Speaker 6: 49:09

Bye, bye everybody, thank you, bye.