The Scotchy Bourbon Boys
The Scotchy Bourbon Boys love Whiskey and every thing about the industry! Martin "Super Nash", Jeff "Tiny", Rachel "Roxy" Karl "Whisky" and Chris "CT" all make up The Scotchy Bourbon Boys! Join us in talking everything and anything Whiskey, with the innovators, and distillers around the globe. Go behind the scenes of making great whiskey and learn how some of the best in the whiskey industry make their product! Remember good whiskey means great friends and good times! Go out and Live Your Life Dangerously!
The Scotchy Bourbon Boys
Crafting a Bourbon Legacy: The J Mattingly 1845 Bourbon & Whiskey Tasting & Blending Experience Across The Street From Buffalo Trace
Ever wondered how a humble farm boy from Indiana could create a luxury bourbon brand that captivates the market? Join Tiny and CT as they welcome Cameron Mattingly and Aaron Mullally from J Mattingly Distillery to uncover the inspiring journey of Jeff Mattingly. From the early days of Bourbon 30 Spirits to the sophisticated rebranding as J Mattingly 1845, we discuss the strategic moves and decisions that have shaped this extraordinary bourbon legacy. Discover the motivations behind relocating to a larger facility and how this has transformed the experience for bourbon enthusiasts.
Prepare to be enchanted by the craftsmanship behind J Mattingly's unique whiskey flavors, guided by the expertise of head barrel crafter Leroy Jones. We delve into their innovative three-tier crafting process, which includes Rickhouse aging, double staving, and aeration to create a distinctive taste. But that's not all—immerse yourself in the customized bourbon experiences offered at the distillery. From hands-on blending activities to personalized tastings, every visitor has the chance to create their own small batch of whiskey. This episode promises an engaging blend of heritage, innovation, and a commitment to quality that will leave you craving a taste of J Mattingly’s exceptional bourbon.
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What's up? Scotchy Bourbon Voice fans, this is Alan Mishner of. If you have Ghosts, you have Everything. You may know me better as Indiana's Alphys of the Black Forest, but if you're at all interested in 14, high strangeness, paranormal and the unexplained, then you should tune into my new podcast. If you have Ghosts, you everything Available now. I'm sure of that. Wherever you get your podcasts, some of those are including Spotify. I've done that.
Speaker 2:We did ours with Les and Eric.
Speaker 3:All right, welcome to another podcast of the Scotchie Bourbon Boys, tiny and CT here at J, mattingly with Cameron and Aaron. Welcome you guys. Welcome to the podcast, hey Alvin.
Speaker 4:Thanks for having us.
Speaker 3:This is exciting we're at your new facility and it's not quite that new, but it's still new, right, still new.
Speaker 2:Absolutely November 1st grand opening. So you know we're still trying to fit the room, so it's going from 2,500 square feet to 25,000 square feet.
Speaker 3:You know it's uh, it's an adjustment. Oh yeah, definitely Uh, and even even from the experience that we had at Bourbon 30, when you know, we came down there the first time, we came and got to meet you, uh, that was a great experience. But this is this. That that was kind of like you guys were molded into that experience, had a night. The gift shop was. It was a nice gift shop, but in the back where you did it, it really had a working man's kind of thing and this I'm so excited to be here. I mean, this is like you're, you're part of the kentucky bourbon trail. This is kentucky bourbon. You guys, uh, you can see the whole thing. We're at the, at the tasting bar with the screen. You know you've got the screens the whole nine yards. It's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we try to maintain the same consumer experience that we gave there in Georgetown. We just have a little bit more room for you all to enjoy it now, so we're not rubbing shoulders all the time.
Speaker 3:Right, right, right, and then you can. I mean location, location, location too. I mean I can't. I can only imagine you picking this, this location, I mean right across the street from that, when people it just makes they go there and they want to, just they'll just come here. So it's a I I. I commend you for that because you know, sometimes people are on the, not on the beaten path, you just are on the main path.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're on a pretty heavy stomping ground over here, so you know we try to take advantage of it. Try to get what we can and just try to show a good experience. That's really good experience and great whiskey. That's what we're here to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree, I agree. So, ct, you've got to start off with questions.
Speaker 5:Well, you know, I think first off, we probably just can kind of lead us into what the brand is about, because I think you know we've even talked that you know people have originally seen it as bourbon 30, and that kind of name seemed to be the more prominent name back when you were in.
Speaker 1:Georgetown.
Speaker 5:Now we've pretty much evolved to J Mattingly and we still have a bourbon 30,. But tell us, a little bit about the history and what has kind of made that happen.
Speaker 2:Right on. So the company started in 2010 by Jeff Mattingly started it under the name as Bourbon 30 Spirits Distillery and you know that's what we rode with up until here in 2023. It was Bourbon 30 Spirits because that's what, whenever him and his brothers were younger on the tobacco farm they would holler out it's Bourbon 30.
Speaker 2:And that meant it was time to go steal as much whiskey from their dad as they could. I like it. That became the name of the distillery. Now it wasn't until Jeff wanted to make a luxury brand and he found out more about his own family's heritage that he learned about the John Graves Mattingly become the second registered distiller in 1845. So he thought you know, the Matly's haven't been in the bourbon game since, I believe, 1897. So he wanted to reintroduce the Mattingly name back into the bourbon industry. The best way he thought to do that was make it the luxury brand name. Now what we found in Georgetown is that J Mattingly 1845 did 83% of our global sales. So it only made sense to make our new, bigger, improved location the J Mattingly 1845 distillery as we still sell bourbon 30, being our consistent mid-shelf product, or what me and Aaron will call our everyday drinker.
Speaker 3:Sure, we'll have that bourbon 30 there, but the jay mattingly 1845 if it's 83 percent of the business and that's what everyone knows this has then we'll roll with that being the distillery right and initially, uh, until I went to your the bourbon 30 location, I hadn't put together jay mattingly and bourbon 30 because us in ohio it had already started coming up on the shelf. You could get some of it right, absolutely. But then once I was there, then I met you and then kind of did a little bit of research. That started I know you guys do barrel picks with Ohio and everything like that and so it does make sense. I mean, honestly, the name and you know Bourbon 30 is very what would you say? It's just not quite as defining.
Speaker 5:It's almost like the name of the podcast. Yeah, there you go. It literally is a podcast name, it's not a brand name.
Speaker 2:So the idea was to bring a little bit of humor into the bourbon industry, because the bourbon industry, you know it's traditionally serious. You know, very, very heritage-based, very serious, professionally serious. You know, very, very heritage-based, very serious. So the idea if anyone knows Jeff Mattingly, they know that Jeff is a super comedic guy. You know you talk about, you know what characteristics does Jeff have? What do I need to know before I go meet him? Humor, comedy, not taking very many things serious. That's what people are going to say about him Other than whiskey. He takes whiskey very serious, but Bourbon 30 being the name or the call-out sign to go steal whiskey and then forming it into a brand name brings a little humor into a serious industry. And that's basically what he wanted to show.
Speaker 3:Well, and I understand still like keeping the brand. It makes sense, it definitely does, but you were getting 81. Sales. Don't lie right. 83%, that was what was intriguing people off the shelves, right, absolutely.
Speaker 5:Absolutely so. The Mattingly family. You know I've listened to things you've said, I've done some research and I think that's the thing too People don't realize how intertwined it is into so many aspects of the history of urban, yeah, so talk about that a little bit like what you know absolutely so I always tell people the early whiskey industry is very much like a spider web.
Speaker 2:you know you, you have connection points to every single aspect of things. And you know John Graves, mattingly, in 1845, he became DSPKY002. You had Evan Williams before that, and then you have Elijah Craig being credited as the founder of bourbon, evan Williams being the first bottled bourbon. Then you have John Graves, mattingly Well.
Speaker 1:John Graves.
Speaker 2:Mattingly had a son, ben F Mattingly, who did a lot of distillation for a lot of different companies. They had Mat son, ben F Mattingly, who did a lot of distillation for a lot of different companies. They had Mattingly Moore, mattingly Sons, mattingly Co and then they also distilled for 13 other distilleries. So very similar to what MTP does now they distill and then they sell out to other companies. So they did that for a lot of distilleries in Louisville, marion County, some in southeast Illinois. And then Ben F Mattingly married into the Willett family. He married John Willett's daughter and you know the history books say that John Willett got sick and Ben F Mattingly had to carry all the distilling rights or responsibilities, not rights. Mattingly had to carry all the distilling rights or responsibilities, not rights. So he distilled for John Willett while he was sick and also married John Willett's daughter. Then John Willett gifted him a company called the Bella Nelson and he continued to distill for that while carrying ownership of it and also some ownership in the Mattingly Moore, mattingly Sons Company.
Speaker 2:So then John Graves Mattingly and Ben F Mattingly sold their rights in what I want to say 1897. I could be off about two years plus or minus, so don't hold me to it, but they sold their rights to it and then it seemed like the Mattinglys became farmers after that. Then Prohibition came along and Frankfurt Distilleries Corporation bought the rights to the Mattingly Moore Company. The Mattinglys were not involved in it and they produced it at the old granddad plant up the road a little bit Same place where they produced post-Prohibition Four Roses. So basically what it was is it was like 70% to 80% neutral grain spirits and the rest was bourbon, because so much bourbon was poured out or stolen out of brick houses that they had to use neutral grain spirits to make up the rest of them.
Speaker 1:That's what it?
Speaker 2:was up until roughly the 50s. Then I want to say Heaven Hill purchased Mattingly Moore in the 70s or 80s. Heaven Hill now owns the rights to Mattingly and Moore. And then you look back in the 1950s and Marjorie Mattingly, who created the wax for Four Roses and some say the label as well, she was born in Mattingly, married into the Samuels family. So, like I said, there's that massive spider web of Mattingly's connected to different distilleries. You know whether it was Marjorie Mattingly or it was Ben F Mattingly Distilling or it was another distillery taking over the Mattingly geographic position to move their new distillery into. There's just, it's just a massive spider web, is the best that I can say about that position to move their new distillery into. It's just a mess of spiderweb, is the best that I can say about that. And then Jeff Mattingly started in 2010, and he became the first Mattingly-owned, operated and founded distillery since the late 1890s.
Speaker 5:Wow, pretty awesome. So a lot of history. Obviously, the product, that and we're going to look at it here in a little bit. When we go downstairs and take a look at the barrels and talk about that whole process with everybody. But product is brought in and that's something pretty you guys are transparent about Nobody knows you know, hey, we're not distilling everything we make, but talk about where that's going, like the the future, because now with this new facility obviously growing, yep absolutely so um, we have, uh, our head of barrel crafting uh.
Speaker 2:Leroy Jones. His real name's Zach Jones. He's actually standing right next to us but he's doing the tasting so he could give you every, every scientific data point. That does our crafting method. But really what we do, we do distill some product that's just not old enough to be put in a bottle yet. So what we do is we buy distilled bourbon from other places light whiskey and rye so we'll do MG. Other places, light whiskey and rye, so we'll do MGP for our light whiskey, MGP for our rye whiskey.
Speaker 2:Our bourbon 30 is going to be MGP bourbon and then our J Mattingly 1845 is going to be from a vast difference of different Kentucky producers. We do have some MGP J Mattingly 1845, Kentucky producers, we do have some MGPJ Mattingly 1845, but really what we focus on here is something that Jeff Mattingly started pretty early on, which is our three-tier crafting process. Our first tier is the standard Rickhouse aging process. Our second tier is going to be what we call the double staving method, and what that is is, if you want to hold that up I don't know really where the camera angles angles are, but what we'll do is we'll break down old bourbon barrels or for our bourbon products we'll get virgin white oak barrels. And what we'll do is we'll either take a table saw and split the bourbon staves or we'll take an axe and get the natural grain cuts out of them. You know, if you do a saw it gives you short grains. If you do an axe, it gives you the long natural grains right there. So it gives you two completely different profiles of it. And we also do three different heat treatments. We'll do a flash char, which is with a big torch that gives you direct fire. We'll do baking, which heats the staves, and a lot of the times they'll push that red line out and all the whiskey that got caught in the stave it'll push it out. Or we'll do a smoking treatment. So it's different temperatures, different times, just different, either direct heat or indirect heats.
Speaker 2:But we call that the double staving method because we have the staves that make up the barrel and then we also have the double stave, which is either old bourbon barrels or virgin white oak barrels, just depending on what mash billet's going into.
Speaker 2:Then we have our third tier of our crafting method, which is called the aeration phase, and the aeration phase is when we'll open up a barrel for X amount of time, for X amount of days in a row and it will allow a lot of those bad gases to breathe out of the barrel.
Speaker 2:And that's why we can make a high proof bourbon or a high proof rye, high proof light whiskey, and you drink it. You know, maybe it's 140 proof and it tastes like you know 102, 107 proof. It just it depends. So you got to balance that aeration method to let out enough gas but not too much gas, because you can let out too much and it'll taste flat and it won't have all those flavor profiles that you wanted it to have. But if you don't let it out at all, you know you have a really vaporous whiskey that you put on your tongue and it shoots to the roof of your mouth, or you swallow it and it gives you almost a rock feeling in your esophagus, or you can't even nose it and get a profile on it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, then ethanol can be a little strong. It definitely can.
Speaker 2:When you get above 110, 115, it can be a little much.
Speaker 5:Go ahead. Oh no, I thought you were going to say something. I wasn't. You weren't going to say anything. No, holy crap, first time, first time, first time ever. So now, when somebody comes into the new facility, you know they come in, you have single barrels which everything you do is a single barrel, essentially, except for bourbon 30.
Speaker 1:No, so actually only about one percent of all of our releases are single barrels.
Speaker 2:Okay, so a lot of the mattingly's you find will still be small batches and with that being said, it's not that we're dumping 35 barrels at equal proportions. End of that and then bottling it what we're doing is imagine all of these four bottles or single barrels of the same Nashville we're taking 5%, 35%, 28% and the remainder. We're fine tuning each barrel end of when to get the best version of this to add to this, to add texture, to add nose to add so many different things.
Speaker 5:So when that bottle sells out there, let's say like the Oryo, like when it's gone, those bottles are gone. Does? That ever get recreated or does it? We do have series.
Speaker 2:We never recreate it because we craft every barrel different with the double staving or the aeration.
Speaker 2:We do everything different. We do different percentages of each individual barrel. Now we do have a series like the Blondie series, the Tobacco series, the Cherry series, the Next Gen series, that follow a specific flavor profile. That way we can capture our fans. But we're never doing an exact recreation because we have different flavor profiles, different barrels, different crafting methods. It's always unique to itself and everything's numbered and basically what we're trying to relate to everyone is just the man hours and everything we're putting into each individual barrel. We're just trying to pump out the best juice that we can. That's really what it's about.
Speaker 4:And by being only done once, it makes every batch very special as well at the same time.
Speaker 3:Well, I agree with that philosophy for how you do things. There's a lot of people in Kentucky that can do the consistent thing, but this niche of coming up with these unique flavors and these different flavor profiles and the diversity that you can come up with how you're, and these different flavor profiles and the diversity that you can come up with with what, how you're doing it not only can you mix, you know you're you're mixing distillate from different places, different types of you know, like you said, light whiskey and making, and so it's kind of like your painters.
Speaker 3:And now now here you're also distilling stuff that you're you know. So now you get to paint with your own distillate as it keeps going further. But also, I found that I really think you guys understand age. You know what.
Speaker 1:I mean, you're really in how you got the wood.
Speaker 3:but you also understand, as things go, you're not taking them too far, but you're taking it far enough, exactly.
Speaker 2:We're not trying to over-oak stuff, we're just trying to find the fine point of everything and being segued into the distilling of everything. Our distiller, cecil Waits he's really into Robert Waits, but we call him Cecil around here His raw distillate is absolutely insane. We've already started traditionally what we do when we get barrels in we let them age in the barrel for three and a half, four and a half years before we do the double staving method. With Cecil's barrels that he's already distilled, we're immediately staving those. So they're only about three months old I want to say right now and they're tasting phenomenal. So we're, we're gonna dive into those. Later we'll have raw distillate three-year-old whiskey, three-year-old weeded bourbon and then we'll get into some of our other barrels, but we're going to have a good time from what I understand on the lot so it's going to be a good time On the Facebook lot, the Facebook lot.
Speaker 5:Sorry, YouTube, you'll have to switch over. Yeah, YouTube, you'll have to switch over to.
Speaker 3:Facebook live for that, but they're getting the actual podcast.
Speaker 5:And then so somebody comes in, you have these barrels sitting around which they can't see, but you have barrels with these bottles sitting on it that they can purchase, or they can go ahead and do their own experience, Kind of do what you do what you do specifically a lot to put those out there, they can do their own.
Speaker 4:Yeah, correct. So they can just do a tasting of what we have to offer in the gift shop and we'll run them through and then give them a tour of the place, show them around and just make sure, because at the end of the day, like Cameron said, we're all about the experience.
Speaker 4:Whether it's a tasting, a blend your own, we want people to have just a great experience when they're here and then plus that's the cool thing about being you know the craft side of things and each group that comes in, obviously we can get more personable, you know, as individuals, instead of you know, with the big guys that have a lot more volume coming through, there's a little less structure to what we do. We just kind of relax and just have a good time, whether it's with a tasting or blend your own. So, yeah, so we'll do the tasting up here and then show them around the blend your own. What we'll do is they'll go downstairs, where they usually get paired up with Dan or Dakota, and then, if it's a very busy day, I'll jump in and help out, or any one of us will Cameron, leroy, all of us will jump in, or Bradley too, when we have to.
Speaker 4:And then we have the barrels divided up into various stations, based off basically what they are. We've got a Kentucky bourbon station, an MGP rye station, an MGP bourbon and an American white whiskey station, and then basically what they'll do is. They'll pick which one of those stations they want to work with. They will taste through the barrels at that station and then, when they lock in on the barrels they like, then the blender whom they're working with will help them make a custom small batch that's just for them. We'll help them make a custom small batch that's just for them, and then they get to pick a bottle shape if they want wax or a wood cork and a tack stamp, what they want to name it up to 25 characters. Basically, this batch they're making is them in a bottle. Essentially it's their experience, and they get to leave the day out with that and they can buy multiples at extra cost as well. But yeah, at the end of the day it's about customization and having a good time. Do you still do the wax dating there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I knew you would take that, but I'm excited to see the stations now.
Speaker 1:A little bit cleaner.
Speaker 5:I'm just going to tell you of all the years of messing with the wax, because we've done barrel picks, we've done our own wax, I have tried everything to do the swirl that you guys do, and I've told people I'm like there's something that Mattingly is doing that I have to figure out, because nothing I do looks anything like that.
Speaker 3:It always turns out.
Speaker 2:You've got to have a guy that went to art school. I would have to say I went to art school, okay. Oh good.
Speaker 1:So when I was- at your other place.
Speaker 3:That dipping station reminded me of being in art school. It was either the plate or you guys with the wax with all the different colors, and then also same thing. The station was the wax with all the different colors and then also like when same thing the station was, you know, the wax was dripped around it. That just was so much like oil. Where's the oil paints? I was wondering.
Speaker 4:you know absolutely, we've all. We've also had a kind of an in-between experience, uh to what we offer here as well, where we have various single barrels of all the mash bowls that we have to offer.
Speaker 4:And basically. So when you do the blend your own experience you're paying for a tasting and 750 milliliters of whiskey With the barrel tasting experience. You'll go through each barrel and whomever is taking you through that will get a talk shop history, all that stuff. And then when you're done, if you didn't necessarily want to get a bottle, you don't have to, but if you like one of the single barrels, then we'll get you a bottle of the single barrel you like for an additional cost.
Speaker 2:So you also get all three of the mash bills. When you do that too, you don't just pick one mash bill. You get three bourbons, a light whiskey and three rye too.
Speaker 3:So you can pick which one if it's a bowl for a single barrel, exactly.
Speaker 4:But you're not necessarily obligated to get one if you don't want to either.
Speaker 5:Right, right.
Speaker 1:So I think it's like any of this is just an extremely unique situation or a destination. I guess is a better word for it for people to come, Even if you're not on the Bourbon Trail if you're just coming down to Frankfurt and you're going to go to Buffalo.
Speaker 5:Trace Wild Turkey Four Roses, you're gonna go to Woodford. Whatever it is in this area, this is definitely a spot where you're gonna find something completely unique to what all that they offer.
Speaker 3:It's more of a hands-on. You're not just taking a tour. If you don't want, you can take the tour, but you're actually able to participate in that. I mean on the, the blending thing, when we did that, that was unlike anything that I've ever. You know, I've been on a lot of tours where you can barrel-thieve and thief your own, that type of stuff. But the blending thing was cool and I'm glad that you've transferred it to this. You know, it seems like it's a little bit bigger. You know I could do it, get more future. Just it's just really cool. The, the, just being here, the setup, it's kind of like. I'm sure the whole time we're thinking about how this was going to get set up and how, whatever you didn't like over there, you were like, well, let's eliminate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah I think visual appeal was a big thing we were focusing on um and then just ease of movement, just making sure everyone felt comfortable, could move around freely. We want everyone to be comfortable, that's what it's all about. Comfortable good time, good whiskey Then we're doing good things.
Speaker 5:The place looks great, I think, for what we've done so far. I'm excited to go downstairs and dig into some of these barrels.
Speaker 3:Well, quick, throw out your website. How to get here everything you know? Just let everybody know on YouTube and whatever, when they're coming down yeah absolutely, so we have jmadley1845.com.
Speaker 1:That's our website.
Speaker 2:You can book all of your J-Mad experiences VIP tasting experiences, bottle experience. You can book all of your J-Bat experiences VIP tasting experiences, bottle experience. You can book all that on there. You don't have to book anything. You can walk on in and we'll take care of you, just like you booked something six years ago. Or you can go to our Facebook Instagram. That's jmattingly1845 as well. We have a pretty killer, tiktok, also jmattingly1845. You know, we try to hit them all as well. We have a pretty killer TikTok, also jmattingly1845. We try to hit them all and it's all just jmattingly1845. We try to keep it simple, perfect, awesome.
Speaker 5:Aaron, you got anything.
Speaker 4:Thanks.
Speaker 5:Thanks for having us.
Speaker 3:Let's go wwwscotchiebourbonboysallcom for all things Scotchie Bourbon Boys. Remember to check us out on go Glenn, everybody. Wwwscotchybourbonboyscom for all things Scotchy Bourbon Boys. Remember to check us out on Facebook, instagram, youtube and apps, along with all the major podcast formats. Remember good bourbon, good friends and good times. I blew that, didn't I? Good bourbon equals good friends and good times. Don't drink and drive.
Speaker 5:Drink responsibly and live your life dangerously, alright, everybody see you on Facebook in a few minutes yeah, thanks everybody alright, let's stop.
