When Maisa Obeid switched her focus from optometry to accessibility and sustainability, she didn't just change careers; she started a revolution in inclusivity. Our latest podcast guest, the Manager of Accessibility and Sustainability Assurance at Expo City Dubai, brings an empowering narrative that proves how an individual's passion can spark widespread change. Her compelling story transitions from a life-altering moment with a visually impaired child to her current role in creating environments that welcome everyone. Mesa's tale is a poignant reminder of the power of curiosity and the transformative nature of continuous learning, particularly as it pertains to assistive technology and universal design.
Developing cities that celebrate every person's unique abilities requires a deep understanding of diverse needs, something Maisa Obeid masterfully illustrates. She shares with us the intricate ballet of incorporating accessibility into urban development, stressing that it's not just about the physical and digital realms but equally about nurturing an inclusive culture within organizations. Her insights into Expo City Dubai's legacy, with its meticulous planning and attention to detail for individuals with disabilities, are nothing short of inspiring. Maisa reflections on adapting assistive tools to different climates and cultures underscore the nuanced complexity of creating truly accessible spaces.
As we gaze into the future of inclusivity, the UAE's visionary approach to empowering people of determination comes to the forefront, as illuminated by Maisa's experiences. She celebrates how the country's rapid growth and progressive leadership enable the integration of inclusive practices from the start, setting a benchmark for the rest of the world. The conversation extends into the realm of education, where the universal design for learning is dismantling barriers and crafting equitable opportunities for all students. Our discussion with Maisa Obeid is a powerful tribute to the tireless efforts of those championing a more inclusive planet and the generational shift towards embracing diversity in every new project.
When Maisa Obeid switched her focus from optometry to accessibility and sustainability, she didn't just change careers; she started a revolution in inclusivity. Our latest podcast guest, the Manager of Accessibility and Sustainability Assurance at Expo City Dubai, brings an empowering narrative that proves how an individual's passion can spark widespread change. Her compelling story transitions from a life-altering moment with a visually impaired child to her current role in creating environments that welcome everyone. Mesa's tale is a poignant reminder of the power of curiosity and the transformative nature of continuous learning, particularly as it pertains to assistive technology and universal design.
Developing cities that celebrate every person's unique abilities requires a deep understanding of diverse needs, something Maisa Obeid masterfully illustrates. She shares with us the intricate ballet of incorporating accessibility into urban development, stressing that it's not just about the physical and digital realms but equally about nurturing an inclusive culture within organizations. Her insights into Expo City Dubai's legacy, with its meticulous planning and attention to detail for individuals with disabilities, are nothing short of inspiring. Maisa reflections on adapting assistive tools to different climates and cultures underscore the nuanced complexity of creating truly accessible spaces.
As we gaze into the future of inclusivity, the UAE's visionary approach to empowering people of determination comes to the forefront, as illuminated by Maisa's experiences. She celebrates how the country's rapid growth and progressive leadership enable the integration of inclusive practices from the start, setting a benchmark for the rest of the world. The conversation extends into the realm of education, where the universal design for learning is dismantling barriers and crafting equitable opportunities for all students. Our discussion with Maisa Obeid is a powerful tribute to the tireless efforts of those championing a more inclusive planet and the generational shift towards embracing diversity in every new project.
Hello and welcome to Access Chat. I'm delighted that Deborah and I are joined today by Mesa Obeid, who is from the Dubai Expo, and she is sorry. Expo City I'm getting it wrong already, bad Neil, and your role is Manager Accessibility, sustainability Assurance. So tell us about that, because I'm really interested in the intersection between accessibility and sustainability, so that sounds like a super interesting role.
Maisa Obeid :
Well, thank you so much for having me. So I joined Exposity Dubai last year before COP28. We hosted COP28. And part of our goal is to ensure that we have accessible event and city. So, as you see, like you know, the sustainable goals, there's a lot of connection between, you know, accessibility and inclusivity and ensure that everyone have equal access, education, smart city and inclusive city. So here's where comes that connection, in addition to social accessibility and social inclusion. So I'm working there with a very nice and amazing team. We're also doing a lot of amazing stuff to accessibility and sustainability, and also we have a team for assurance to ensure that we are compliant, for example, with the code when it comes to inclusive and health and safety and other areas and criteria.
Neil Milliken:
So it's a really broad remit for the team and I think that that's really interesting because sometimes accessibility can be quite a narrow remit. So obviously you said you've not been with the team long, but you've certainly been working in the field longer. So is this remit that you now have different to how you'd experienced before? So tell us a little bit about how you came to work in the field and what brought you into the world of accessibility.
Maisa Obeid :
I think you know, when everyone knows my background, they are extremely surprised because my background is optometrist. So I started my bachelor degree in optometry and during my last year we had one course about low vision. So it was a little bit interesting because this is something new. It's not in my region. So I did my study in Jordan. So what is low vision? What are these bulky devices that they are showing to us? So it was really a little bit interesting and it was a totally new topic for us, specifically for me.
Maisa Obeid :
Then, during my internship, I met one of children who were a refugee and he had a low vision and when I, you know, tried to support and do the vision assessment it was not the regular vision assessment that, as optometrists, you should do it. So I felt that I am, you know, useless. I couldn't provide the support that I shouldn't provide for this child. So that day, really, I went home and I thought, no, I need to do more. It's not enough just to think about regular vision assessment. Let me just start to do more research and understand what is low vision, what these bulky devices, where I can get it, what type of you know testing. So from there my journey started. So I took one of the courses with CBM on low vision and how to prescribe assistive technology and I was extremely happy because I started, you know, to provide support and service. So I started to volunteer in one of schools for blind in Jordan. It's called the Abdullah bin Maktoum School. I remember it because it's really impacted even the way how, you know, I proceed with my career. So I started there. I know low vision, I'm happy to, you know, provide service and low vision. I I'm confident. And then I started to see the next level that you have sometimes kids, they come with other disabilities and I don't have that knowledge to support and help them. So I said, okay, this is my next homework.
Maisa Obeid :
So I started to do more research and then I joined German Jordanian University in their diploma and vision rehabilitation and also master and vision rehabilitation in Jordanian German University. And then here's, my career started. I joined, you know we called special education centers. I started to provide training and assessment and, you know, low vision services. Again, it was not enough. I started to feel that I need to provide more for kids with other disabilities. So I started to provide training and assessment for kids with other disabilities, for their vision, and then again, it's not enough. In our region we need to get more and more support, and I started this alone.
Maisa Obeid :
So I joined Northern Arizona University for Assistive Technology and here it was like a new era for me. It's not only low vision, it's not only these bulky devices, it's not only kids or people with vision impairment. There's other disabilities and it's not only you, maysa. There should be a team. You should have a team with occupational therapists, speech pathologists, psychologists. It's not only one person. And then from there my journey started. A few years later, I found out it's about more accessibility and universal design. Assistive technology is great, but it's more about assistive technology. So it's like a long journey, starting from very narrow field to a wider field. Wow.
Debra Ruh:
Well, that's really impressive. And one thing that I love about that story is, first of all, you were curious and it wasn't okay to not know, and I love that. I love that and, as you know, a mother of a daughter with Down syndrome, I really appreciate that because often I will go to doctors that don't really well, I would say it's changed. Whenever she was younger, I would go and you could just tell they didn't understand so much. But most I think that a lot of health professionals must have really been educating themselves. I don't find that to be the case. I find now which I love, because my daughter's actually walking some other trauma because of her past health condition, and so what I'm really surprised at is the health professionals like you that have taken the time to learn, because now I went in the other day I was talking to Sarah has a blood clot disorder, so she has an oncologist and the oncologist knew so much more about how to support her than I did and I'm an expert yeah, no, I'm not. So I really appreciate that from a humanitarian perspective. But I also appreciate it because one thing it feels like to me that still a lot of the conversations that are having about accessibility, inclusion, even sustainability, still seems to be happening in the Western worlds, and so I'm really interested in what innovation is happening in other countries, and I know there's quite a bit of innovation happening in the Middle East and certainly in the UAE and the different territories in the UAE, and I'm just fascinated what we can learn as you educate yourself.
Debra Ruh:
You know you said you were in Jordan and in States and other places that you're learning, but how, how you apply that based on the way the world works in your country. So I'm very interested in that and how we can learn from that. And, mesa, I was just curious do you agree? Do you think it's really important that, yes, learn from each other, but then we take the knowledge and we apply it to where we live, in our cultures and our faiths and because people identify differently? You know, identity is such a complicated word anyway, but I was just. I I like to understand do you, are you feeling that same way that it's good to learn from others, but then to take it back and take it to your country, see what you can learn from that, innovate from that and then share with us so that we can improve what we're doing?
Maisa Obeid :
100%. I agree with you. And if we go to that first, you know, basic for accessibility and inclusion that everyone has specific abilities and needs and from there we start. So we can't just say everyone has specific abilities and needs for people with disabilities or people of determination. This applies for communities and this applies for everyone and this applies for environment, for you know, like communities. So if we think from that perspective, yes, we need to learn from each other, we need to bridge the gap, for example, whatever we have in the other side to come to the other side and learn from each other.
Maisa Obeid :
But when it comes to, you know, implementing it's really nice just to have different ways, different approach, that based on our needs and abilities.
Maisa Obeid :
I remember we had one session during the autism awareness month or day and we were discussing like there's a lot of things going when it comes to autism and assistive technology and accessibility.
Maisa Obeid :
But when it comes to you and Gulf area, specifically, that we have a very hot weather, for example, in summer, so what parents they need to consider, what they need to do, what other things that might impact and affect and maybe this is also the case, for example, in US and UK you have like sometimes a very extreme cold weather. So how parents should be advised. So we can't take these two approaches and put it in one way to implement it or use the devices or accessibility tools of the same type or device. And it's always good and nice to see you know different ways in the approach because, again for me, today I am in this environment, I use or I access my devices in this way, but the other day, when I'm going outside, I'm using it in a different way. So it's always good to learn from each other, but also try to implement the idea of accessibility that everyone has different abilities and needs.
Neil Milliken:
I really like the sort of global to local approach and I remember talking with a friend of mine who'd been working on the communication age for autistic and non-verbal people and they were looking at symbol dictionaries and and the symbol dictionaries that we had in in in the UK and in the West were completely inappropriate culturally and even cognitively for for Arabic speakers and so on. So there was a whole piece of work done to create new symbol dictionaries that were appropriate. So even where you have essentially the same tool, there are those. You know you need to understand the nuances of what it means to implement those tools and those communication supports in different cultures and different languages, and so that was really interesting for me.
Neil Milliken:
I've just been trawling through the Expo City website and you've got a lot of accessibility information on the website and and I think you know there's a lot of well thought-out stuff there, like not just you've got the sort of breakdown of what features are available for different you know people with different sets of needs, but you know you've got changing places, toilets. You've got changing places, toilets. You've got information about areas where service dogs can go and do their business, which people don't think about when you're planning for a city and you're thinking, planning, how do I make an accessible environment? Most people aren't thinking, well, I need a pee-pee stop for the guide dogs. But it's all part of that sort of holistic thinking something as varied as looking at the accessibility of a really large space and like Expo City and all of the things that you do there.
Maisa Obeid :
So let's start with the basic of Expo City. So Expo City, we have Expo 2020. And this is we are carrying the legacy of Expo 2020. So the main aim and the main vision for accessibility for Expo, for Expo 2020, is to be the most accessible and inclusive event and expo, and I think the team because I joined after that they did a great job when it comes to accessibility and inclusion. And also I recall that they told me that they had like sensory cards and they had like sensory rating for different pavilions and events, which really make it a very accessible and inclusive event. And also for me, I recall when I visited Expo 2020, it was very accessible and I had also my students, because I used to work in a university and I was managing and leading you know the accessibility and then my students visited the Expo. It was very seamless experience. We just just contact, you know a team, they prepare for us accessible transportation. So we are now building on that legacy of accessibility and inclusion.
Maisa Obeid :
So, when it comes now to our vision, we are moving from an event to a city. We have different stakeholders. We have internal, external, we have tenants. We have different stakeholders we have internal, external, we have tenants, we have events, we have also real estate and other you know stakeholders. So, again, we want to keep the same standard, the same legacy and we want us, to, you know, add more. So the first thing we are doing and started and this is also something that has been done also during Expo 2020, is benchmarking. We have Dubai code, which is really great, amazing, but also we are experienced and we know that people are coming from all over the world here to Dubai, so we want them also to have good experience. As we said, sometimes we have things it's amazing and great and it fits with our needs here within the UE, but we are expecting international audience and we want to meet their needs also. So we have, like benchmarking reports to say what we need to achieve, what we need to, you know, add more to our environment. So this is something we comes when it comes, for example, to physical environment, environment. So this is something we comes when it comes, for example, physical environment. So our minimum standard is the Dubai code and the law and then going more beyond this to benchmarking Also.
Maisa Obeid :
We are trying and believe that and this is also personally, I believe if we have the most accessible environment, the most accessible digital assets, but we are not working with the people and the culture. You know it's like it's not there. If you don't, you know, educate and let people know that you have your staff and you know hosts and security and volunteers know that you have these assets in the new you know city. It's like, you know it's like useless because these are with a newer city. It's like useless because these are facing the visitors, these are conveying the messages. So if they don't know, for example, these specific features and they don't know how to interact and how to provide the support, you might not give the full, what we call it, the full range of support. So this is something we are working on it, and also we are including people of determination, people with disability, as part of our, you know, interaction engagement.
Maisa Obeid :
So I was sharing with Deepav before we started that we had the International Down Syndrome Day and we thought it's not mindset should deliver the training or that, no, we should have a person with Down syndrome to come and deliver the training. We, first of all, we want them to come and we want to show our staff and, you know, ecd staff that if we give people the opportunity to be empowered, they will be empowered. We need just to give them the chance. This is one thing. And also, we want to empower them, we want to help them to advocate, you know, and it was one of really successful training I have ever, you know, planned and attend.
Maisa Obeid :
Yeah, because it was like for me, an eye-opener, because, again, you feel that you're in this field for many years and you know what you do. But when you had a person who comes and they say, no, let's do it in this way, and he's the one, for example, he knows what he wants you feel, okay, it's not only about experience, it's not about being specialized or years of experience. It's not about being specialized or years of experience, it's about the people who experienced this. So give them the chance. So this is something we did In the international wheelchair also, we invited one of my previous students to come and also to you know, to do like a training, and we were also targeting who you know should like a training and we were also targeting who should attend the training.
Maisa Obeid :
For example, if we have people they are responsible for the master plan or they will be developing any physical assets, these should come and attend and experience the site, because it's not only about being compliant with the code, it's more than that. So this is something we are trying. I don't say that it's like one stop, it's like a journey. We will keep improving, improving and improving, and it's not like a nonstop journey.
Debra Ruh:
Yeah, but the exciting part of it, though, is that I love that you're building it into the city. Part of it, though, is that I love that you're building it into the city, because the only way to do this is to make it part of where we live, and so most places are not doing that. Most places aren't. We talk about smart cities, smart communities. They are not smart if all of the human beings cannot be meaningfully included, and so I, like the innovation we're seeing come from, you know, efforts like Expo 2020, expo City 2020. But, as you said, but now it's great, all the amazing work they did to get to Expo 2020. But now you have to keep it going. You have to keep learning from it, and that is where the real work comes into place, but also, I think, the legacy and us learning from each other, but sadly, I still see so many huge smart city, smart community efforts being made, and they are not talking about it from the lens of sustainability or inclusion, and I'm just going to use inclusion to also mean accessibility, because I can't be included if it's not accessible. So I'm not and I don't know about you, neil, if you're seeing it, but I'm not seeing that. I'm not seeing us do that any place except right now. I'm seeing it in the UAE and I see talk about them doing it.
Debra Ruh:
You're doing it now, and so that is really, really impressive and something that I think the rest of the world should look at Once again. You don't have it figured out, you still have problems, you're still learning. I assume we're all part of this changing world, but it is. You do have standards that you've been set, and you are looking at this to protect our planet. You know the living planet we're all living on Sorry, but it's, I don't know Anyway but also including humans. And now we've got this AI stuff here. Mays, yay, oh, it's going to kill us all, or?
Debra Ruh:
It's what empower us yay, oh, it's going to kill us all, or it's what empower? Empower us to really, you know, to really live our humanity in a different way. Maybe I'll say it that way, but I don't know why y'all have done this. But I thank you. I thank you so very much, because we must have things we can point to to say, well, wait a minute, tell me that can't be done, because they actually did it. So, first of all, I applaud that, but I would be, I am curious, why? Why do y'all care? Everybody cares Maisa, but not everybody's doing it. So why?
Debra Ruh:
are y'all doing it, thank you.
Maisa Obeid :
The first thing, I believe, is the leadership at the UAE government leadership. I just, you know, before I joined this meeting, I saw that there's youth retreat with Muhammad bin Rashid and then I saw that there's two people with disability. They are part of that retreat and it's like a standard. It's not something you know we need to advocate, no, it comes as standard. Last week, as I recall, we had Abu Dhabi Award and also Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed awarded four people of determination and it's not like, you know, because they are people of determination. If you just go and search and Google their achievement, oh wow, they have a huge achievement. But the idea that including them and keeping them part of all of these events like a standard, it's not something like comes at the end, it's something as a standard. I think this is the first point is why? Because we have a very strong message from our leadership that this is the vision Everyone should be included, everyone should be, you know, part of the community and society. So from here you can start to drive. You know the innovation, the inclusion and again, when it comes to smaller organization, again, definitely it's from the leadership that they see that there's a huge, you know, opportunities and a lot of things comes once we empower people of determination, or everyone is not only like now, we are just not focusing on people of determination, but everyone should be part of the community and to include them.
Maisa Obeid :
And also another thing I noticed that in the community that if you come and say I need this type of accessibility as accommodation, you will get that support, not because that if you don't provide that type of accommodation, there is, you know, specific consequences in terms of, like, legal, you know, or court or whatever. We have law, we have a standard, we have policy, we have framework, we have, for example, abu Dhabi strategy for people of determination. But people, they have that intention that they want to support and they provide, you know, the help. And it's not because if you don't provide that accommodation that you will get, for example, legal consequences. We don't even think about it. We think, oh, why we didn't consider it from the beginning. So everyone wants to provide the support and everyone has that ownership that let's be accessible and inclusive. But why sometimes we are not inclusive? Because of the awareness, not more than that.
Neil Milliken:
So I'd love to pick up on this because I'm really curious, because every country people are aware that, you know, including people with disabilities brings benefits. There are laws, so the difference is in the will to make stuff happen and that, you know, is not always the case in many countries. We've got the knowledge, we've got the laws, we've got the history in the global north, but we're still actually not consistently implementing. So you talked about it being cultural will, but also is there an element that, because you're in such a fast-growing economy and fast-growing society, you've got the opportunity to, you know, build it in and bake it in from from the beginning? Do you think that? How much of? So? My question is really how much of it is you know about will and how much of it is because you've got this opportunity to to build it right first?
Maisa Obeid :
time. I think yes, because we have the opportunity, but again, we have the enabling environment. So if sometimes you have the opportunity without the enabling environment, sometimes it's very difficult to get this. But I agree with you definitely that we have the opportunity, fast and growing. We have a lot of rich environment to help and support us.
Maisa Obeid :
But again, going to enable environment, like, for example, at a personal level, I remember when I came and said I want to do like assistive technology project, like 10 years ago, and when I just submitted this to my leadership and, just like you know, this is the benefit, this is what we need to do. This is like benchmarking. This is where other countries they are doing. They approved the project but they didn't say like, okay, let's just start from you know, from the snow, what other people? Where are the other people and countries? And let's start from there and build on it. So because of that, we feel that we are. Yes, maybe we start in a few things late, but we start immediately, we start very fast and you know we have the full and enabling environment to help and support us to to push it yeah, I think that's interesting because you're right, you have momentum and and although we've done stuff in the global north, our momentum is not that fast.
Neil Milliken:
We've done a lot of stuff, but that's because it's been over a really long period of time and so it's been slow progress. And I look and I see what happens in UAE and KSA and also in places like Thailand, where the development is also really, really rapid.
Neil Milliken:
The stuff is just being built in. All of the new environments are taking a universal design approach. So my wife is a big fan of looking at you know fancy houses and and there's some amazing houses being built in in her part of the world and all of them have been considering step-free access. You know it's, it's not. It's not one, it's not. Oh, we've built a this, you know house for people of determination, disabled people.
Neil Milliken:
We're doing this as standard and I think that that's the difference that we're seeing is that people have got it and there's definitely a generational shift that has happened the new generation of people developing this stuff that they've accepted that this is just something that we do, and I actually think that that's not the case in the uk or the us or other parts of europe that we're working towards it. We've got all of these things that we're really excited about, like the european accessibility act and the change in the DOJ rulings around accessibility right now, that are going to make a huge difference, but I don't think that we have accepted it as a society as just baked in yet. So it's really interesting to see that that's happening in UAE.
Debra Ruh:
It's hopeful. We appreciate it. Thank you, thank you.
Maisa Obeid :
I think it's a community again. It's not like one person or one mantra, it's like a whole community, a whole support that is doing and taking, that you know moving and definitely parents for people with disability or people of determination. They are doing a huge also. You know a huge. You know role, how to push this and to go out also.
Neil Milliken:
Soiting. Yeah, it is exciting. Just before we end, I'm really interested to hear a bit more about the embedding of accessibility into education, because you said you've done a number of courses now, some in America, but I know that also the universities in the region are also teaching this. What would you highlight and what could we learn in the West from the universities in the Middle East about including accessibility into education, because we've still got some way to go there?
Maisa Obeid :
Yes, yeah, listen again, accessibility is a journey. I think and this is the case in different also, even here or wherever we have like a journey. We are starting to build and keep you know, improving our journey when it comes to, you know, universities and also I was privileged also to work within the schools when it comes to universities and also I was privileged to work within the schools that you have that team who is really fully trained and ready to support students of determination, and I like the idea that you have special education teachers and also you have assistive technology team and they are very specialized team and they are very specialized. What I liked recently I finished, I'm just trying to submit my PhD for digital accessibility in higher education in Saudi Arabia. I conducted this research, so I think something is being really growing fast in the universities here.
Maisa Obeid :
It's the universal design for learning. So we start to see this more instead of, okay, we have center for people of determination and that's it, and these are the services. We started to see that there's a movement where there's tools like, for example, ally in the Blackwood or any learning management system, so all the students, regardless of their disabilities or if they have a specific disability or they don't have, or if they come and say I have this disability, they have access to alternative format immediately. So this is something that's really nice. It's really amazing and from even the interviews you know a lot of students. They said it's like a game changer for them. And one thing also like implementation for tools. So, for example, we have a lot of accessible tools. Before it was only for a limited number of students. Or if you have a specific disability, you come and you are eligible to get it. Now it's open for everyone. And again, the main focus and message is like universal design for learning from the beginning, just like a standard.
Neil Milliken:
This is where you can see really a huge improvement in the education wow, that's wonderful because I think that quite often we we ration accessibility and we and we want to prescribe it all the time, but actually by designing and enabling people to choose how they wish to learn, how they wish to work, it has a huge impact. So it's been fascinating talking to you today, meza. I'm really grateful to learn from you. Need to thank Amazon and my Cleartech for keeping us on air and supporting us and keeping us captured, and we look forward to interacting with you more on social media. Thank you very much.
