How do societal movements intersect and diverge when it comes to identity and inclusion? On this special Pride Month episode of Access Chat, we're celebrating the vibrant intersections between the LGBTQIA+ and disability communities. We explore the profound challenges and victories that shape these communities, with Deborah sharing her personal journey of navigating ADHD stigma and Antonio emphasizing the need for international solidarity within the disability movement. By drawing parallels between the significant strides made by the LGBTQIA+ community and the ongoing battles faced by those with disabilities, particularly those with hidden and neurodivergent conditions, we aim to foster a conversation that is as celebratory as it is critical.
Ever wondered how openly embracing one's identity can transform workplace culture? Join us as we discuss the complexities of diversity and inclusion in the business world, highlighting the courageous contributions of LGBTQIA+ executives and the persistent barriers faced by leaders with disabilities. We delve into the systemic prejudices that equate disability with incompetence and the higher costs associated with creating truly accessible environments. As we celebrate Pride Month, let's reflect on the importance of embracing our authentic selves and the ripple effects this can create in society. Tune in for an episode that balances celebration with a call to action for greater inclusivity and progress.
How do societal movements intersect and diverge when it comes to identity and inclusion? On this special Pride Month episode of Access Chat, we're celebrating the vibrant intersections between the LGBTQIA+ and disability communities. We explore the profound challenges and victories that shape these communities, with Deborah sharing her personal journey of navigating ADHD stigma and Antonio emphasizing the need for international solidarity within the disability movement. By drawing parallels between the significant strides made by the LGBTQIA+ community and the ongoing battles faced by those with disabilities, particularly those with hidden and neurodivergent conditions, we aim to foster a conversation that is as celebratory as it is critical.
Ever wondered how openly embracing one's identity can transform workplace culture? Join us as we discuss the complexities of diversity and inclusion in the business world, highlighting the courageous contributions of LGBTQIA+ executives and the persistent barriers faced by leaders with disabilities. We delve into the systemic prejudices that equate disability with incompetence and the higher costs associated with creating truly accessible environments. As we celebrate Pride Month, let's reflect on the importance of embracing our authentic selves and the ripple effects this can create in society. Tune in for an episode that balances celebration with a call to action for greater inclusivity and progress.
Hello and welcome to Access Chat. It's just the three of us. Today we are entering June and that means that it's Pride Month. Now, whilst the LGBTQIA+ community is celebrating their identity, I think that it also opens up a conversation for us to have about disability identity and I know there is a separate Disability Pride Month which follows on but also intersectionality, and certainly we know from conversations that we've had previously on AXSChat and amongst ourselves as well, that we can learn a lot from the, the Pride movement in terms of engagement, driving change and also really being able to enable the conversations because Pride has done a lot to address stigma to engage society, to really change people's views of what it means to have, you know, to be LGBTQIA++ and have a different sexual identity from what society used to expect.
Neil Milliken:
So, likewise, there's been a tremendous amount of stigma um attached to disability and particularly to a lot of hidden conditions and neurodivergent conditions, especially when it comes to you know, uh, things where you know, learning disabilities and stuff like that where people still feel ashamed about talking about it. So I think that any kind of celebration of positivity and identity that helps people feel comfortable is beneficial at the same time and I think deborah can come in on this. In the dei community in space in general, there's always days of celebration, and so sometimes I think we get this sort of celebratory fatigue. So maybe, deborah, you'd like to come in and say a bit about what's good and also where we could maybe preserve a little energy.
Debra Ruh:
Well, and also, I just want to say I like when it's the three of us and I love when we have guests, but I love when it's the three of us talking because we have such varied backgrounds and many years of doing this. We're on our 10th year now, so I'm doing this show, but you know I think you're right, neil, that we get um, it's sometimes it feels hard to celebrate. I mean, I celebrated gad, we all celebrated gad, but at the same time you see, um, some troubling accessibility trends. That it makes you nervous and you think, should we be celebrating or we should be getting there out there working? And then it's like, no, let's take the time to celebrate. But this really also, at the same time, look around and you know, see where we are. And I love what you said about the LGBTQIA plus community, because you know they are a very diverse, very diverse community. They have very different needs, different you know ideas of how the world should work for them and to bring together a community that a lot of people want to shame or whatever I talk about a very, very hard thing to do, and yet they still did it enough so that they got marriage equality in some ways, but I think the fight for true inclusion, I think the LGBTQIA plus, they've got a lot of work to do and they actually need to get probably get back together even more to see where do we go from here. And of course we're trying to do that here at with our community. We we're trying to get people to come together.
Debra Ruh:
Like you said, neil, people, some people are ashamed to come out and talk about their. You know, I I talk about my ADHD and and often when I talk about it people are like oh yeah, yeah, you get it, get it. But every once in a while I talk about it in a different space and people I can feel the judgment and the sort of uh, uh. For example, the other day somebody was almost getting a little irritated with me because I would not sit down and I want to sit down. I want to sit down for eight, 10 hours a day, like some people do. I can't do it, I'm too hyper to do that, and so I was sort of explaining well, it's a little bit my ADHD. It just makes me really a little hyper and it was just sort of interesting having to explain that again because I thought we had gotten so much past this, and so I love that we celebrate, and I agree with everything you were saying, neil we need to keep celebrating.
Debra Ruh:
But, as we were saying before we got on air today, there's a lot of things breaking down, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's scary and hard to watch, but I do think we need to really continue to celebrate. We were talking about GAD how amazing GAD 2024 was this year, but you know, where can GAD go now and what can we all do to get behind it, and so how do we celebrate but also make sure we're having truly meaningful change along the way is also interesting. Let me turn it over to you, antonio. Thank you.
Antonio Santos:
Well, you were talking about community. I think to the LGBT community there's a stronger sense of community, even internationally. People are more connected, organizations are more connected. That element is there. Well, in terms of disability, you might have local communities, you might have some people somehow exchange ideas at an international level, but it's not as consistent as it could be. Some people don't even know what others are doing. Some people are completely unaware about some work that is being done in countries, some organizations. They create events that relate to their countries Disability, pride Month or others that in some countries they don't even know what that is. So I think there's some initiatives that need to be done and maybe some outreach to be done in order to make the community stronger or at least to be able to, in some important cases and situations, to have us all supporting in order to find ways to progress faster.
Neil Milliken:
Yeah, I agree. I think there's definitely, you know that higher visibility and greater connectedness in the pride movement. I think we are still pretty disparate within the disability communities. We haven't really come together. We need to. We talk about it a lot on this show, but it's still quite disparate. And if we look at how Pride has engaged with business as a umbrella movement for all of the different groups within that community, I think that they'd be very successful and that we can learn from that and there was a lot of positivity and a positive focus and I think that maybe there is some less positivity among some of the sort of disability communities.
Neil Milliken:
And that's hard, right, because actually, you know, there are reasons why people are less positive, right, and they're valid, right. You know, living with ableism, living with barriers, living with all of these things has an impact on people's well-being and their mental health. So guess what? Aside from it being gad, last month was also a mental health month, and so, yes, it's no wonder we're tired because we're multiple things, um, but, but I do think that there's there's something that they've managed to do.
Neil Milliken:
They bottled up a secret sauce where, you know, organizations are bought into it, they want to understand it because, if you think about it, actually around the world there's far less protective legislation around sexuality than there is around disability. We've got more legislation on the side of disability, non-discrimination, hundreds of different bits of legislation which everyone bloody ignores. So, um, hundreds of different bits of legislation which everyone bloody ignores. So, whereas actually in many parts of the world it's still illegal, it's still frowned upon, to be homosexual, to have a different sexual identity, so there is real risk and danger and at the same time, the positivity and celebratory nature of pride has meant that it's engaged and it has brought steps forward. So, if we think about you say they achieved marriage equality in many countries now we haven't achieved that with people with disabilities.
Debra Ruh:
Yep, can't do that in the United States, no.
Neil Milliken:
So I think that we still have some some learning that we can do, and and when I mean learning, it's not go. Oh well, they've managed to do this, but it's a how, how? How did they manage to persuade? What was it? What was the the thing that they did that that convinced people to change their minds? Because I think that's the thing we. We had a conversation a few weeks ago about diplomacy, but diplomacy only works if you understand what motivates the person on the other side of the conversation, and I think that that's where they've done a really good job.
Antonio Santos:
I think at a certain level, particularly on the business topics, I think it has been a lot easier for CEOs and executives to come out and say, Agreed. It has been a lot easier for CEOs and executives to come out and say and then provide ways to support the community, support people in their organizations. Now you have seen many executives who were able to come out and say, no, this is who I am, and then that had a positive role in the organization, in the people around them, and they were very confident doing it. And you don't see that at the level of you know, in our community. You don't see a CEO kind of say, oh, I have a disability. It's still very hard for people to say it in the same way and I think that somehow at the business level, those executives from the LGBT community who were in senior positions contributed very positively to what has happened and the fact that they were in the position of power also helped to escalate and amplify and make things happen and run faster.
Debra Ruh:
And I don't know if this is true and I do not want to minimize these topics, but it seems to me also that there's a lot of complications with including the LGBTQIA plus a lot of complications, uh, it seems to me most of the efforts I see are in Westernized countries. Many countries are not looking at all about, um, you know what the rights should be for the LGBTQIA and, sadly, if you um are a man that is a homosexual, in some countries you can get killed, you can get arrested and killed Deborah.
Antonio Santos:
Let me just to say something important is that? Something that I have observed is that many people live in those countries. When they have the opportunity to immigrate, they move to a different place.
Debra Ruh:
Right, right, because you're not accepted where you are. But the point? So I'm not.
Debra Ruh:
I think there's major issues in that community, but I think, when you start getting into our community, the disability community, it seems like not that this is a suffering Olympics, but it seems like it's so much more complicated because we have so many different people that have been thrown in.
Debra Ruh:
Most people don't want to admit it and at the same time, then we also have access issues in a different way than other communities have, because our community they might be blind or they might be deaf, or maybe they can't use their hands or maybe they can't, and so we are fighting multiple things, because we also have to fight for the, for technology to be included, for us, for us to be inclusive. So I mean it's, I think we can learn so much from that community, so much about them getting together and fighting for their rights and fighting for each other's rights and the coming out with pride. I gosh, I appreciate what they've done. I just, I just think for both communities it's a ridiculous, ridiculous nuanced efforts. And, of course, there's the intersectionality of it all, where we're, all you know, women with disabilities that are part of the LGBT, or men, and blah, blah, blah.
Neil Milliken:
Absolutely. I think you raised a good point. I mean I'm going to sound glib now, but it costs a lot less to change a sign on the toilet door than it does to actually fit an accessible toilet and change the room and put in place changing places, toilets. Right, that requires physical changes to your infrastructure rather than just attitudinal ones, because so we have the the physical, attitudinal and then the technological requirements around disability. So so I acknowledge the complexity as well and I think that we go to the attitudinal one for a bit.
Neil Milliken:
I think that, yes, antonio is right, many of the ceos that are part of the LGBT community have been excellent role models. But when we examine prejudice, the prejudice against sexuality doesn't question people's competence. When we look at ableism, people assume that because you are disabled, that you're incompetent. So there's a an additional barrier to um for senior leaders who, you know um don't want to admit that they're human and fallible, because the perception is that in order to be successful, you've got to be highly competent, and that we still have this um innate prejudice that disability equals lack of competence or that you're unable to perform in certain ways. You know, and we know you know working in the field that that's. That's not the case, but you have to put in the supports to enable people and so that those multiple layers of complexity, I do think, then make it somewhat harder.
Debra Ruh:
Yeah, I I. I thought that was such a brilliant point that you made, so compliments thank you.
Neil Milliken:
So this is a short episode. So, um, I, I, but I do want to, you know, wish the intersectionality of our two and multiple communities. Uh, you know, happy pride month. May you continue to celebrate, may we continue to celebrate our identities and everybody's identities, because it's important that everybody can be their true selves. Uh, and I think that by not being our true selves, it has a negative impact. So the positive impact of people being able to be themselves in public and the ripple effects of that are significant. So, happy, bright Month. Look forward to discussing this further on access chat. And I need to say thank you to our friends and sponsors, amazon on my clear text for me, because on air and captioned.
